@Lordzeb121:
How can you call luffy leading a prison break that released 200+ of inmates who were convicted of some of the worst crimes in world and allowed for BB to be saved by Shiryu all for completely selfish reasons (he didn't care about WB or the war he just wanted Ace free) a "grey area" but not give the same lenency to Akainu blowing up a ship full of civilians to prevent any chance of a scholar escaping.
This kind of thinking is what ruins the credibility of any arguments you're trying to make. You're being an obvious hypocrite and your bias is extremely clear…there is no point of discussing the issue with you because even in the face of your obvious contradictions you'll keep reiterating your conflicted ideas, unchanged with arguments just as week and bias filled as before...
It's only a grey area because Impel Down was consistently portrayed as evil. If Impel Down wasn't a place that was staffed by characters in Nazi uniforms with names like "Sadi" and that was shown to carry out outrageous torture, then of course I wouldn't call it "grey" at all, but as it is the only thing about Impel Down that's portrayed as good is Hannyabal. Maybe.
I don't know why you're saying my bias is clear, since that was the only time I even came close to supporting Luffy committing a criminal act. I've said before that I don't think marines are evil just for attacking Luffy, so who am I biased for?
Is it kind of dumb to say "well, they don't look good, so they're evil"? I think so. But this is One Piece, and it's still a pretty black-and-white shonen.
I've already said I'm not judging but looking at it from the absolute justice p.o.v. Understanding why ppl do things is apart of figuring out who's good and bad/evil.
I'm not disagreeing with the idea of looking at how Akainu thinks to try to judge him, so I can get behind that.
I'm not really gonna speculate about what the WG is trying to prevent from being revealed. All I will say is from the way see it w/e is being kept secret is important enough for them to make it crime to investigate it and kill for those breaking that law. Discussing whether a law is just or not is a completely different discussion from whether the ppl making the laws or the ppl who work for the making laws are good or evil.
I'm pretty sure I already brought up the example don't see why you can't connect the two. PPL like Coby coming in the way yelling spare the pirates is more harmful than helpful.0
No we don't. as long as there is a need for justice the Akainu's of the world will always exist. One piece isn't a manga about Coby on his journey to become a great marine and how he proves his way of justice is the right one.
That might be true, but look at it as a manga series and not as a world. Akainu is being built up as an antagonist whose methods are likely to turn off most readers of the manga, and Coby is put up against him. With how One Piece operates, of course Akainu will eventually be defeated and Coby will come out on top. If we were back in the East Blue arc, that would be like saying "Don Krieg is more realistic about being a pirate than Luffy, we can't say that Luffy will prove his way as being more right than Krieg's".
There's a lot of criminals that don't appear as bad ppl, they're called con men.
Clover even got his big "dream" speech about helping humanity learn from its past. I don't think anyone with a positive "dream speech" in One Piece has ever meant to be sympathetic, with the exception of Blackbeard who is basically "evil Luffy". This sentence also makes it sound like you're saying all criminals are bad, although I'm not accusing you of saying that.
Hitler thought he was helping humanity too. A lot of guys who were clearly wrong thought they were doing good. You can have the best intentions and they can all end up fucking everyone over. Sometimes ppl need to be ignorant about certain things in all honestly but that's just one view
That's what I've been saying about Akainu all along.
But the difference between those people and the philosophers is that the Oharans didn't kill anyone, nor did they intend to. Hitler convinced a country to attempt genocide as a way to gain political power, and Akainu (who is not comparable to Hitler, I'm not going that far) killed civilians to maintain the stability of his government. The Oharans wanted to study history, and we're given no indication that they had revolutionary intent.
In your opinion.
It would be inconsistent with the rest of the manga if we weren't supposed to agree with the scholars.
That's dependent on what they know about why the law shouldn't be broken. They're questionable laws in the real world but you gotta find out the reason for why they are laws to decide if they're necessary or not.
What reason could there be? Is there anyone who would support revisionist history in our world? What could possibly come of it that would do more harm than making the government not appear as pure as they claim to be?
Sounds like you should be blaming Clover and her moms for the way she ended up.
Why? Had the government not interfered, they wouldn't have turned an innocent person into an actual, dangerous criminal (even though she turned out to be not that horrible in the end, she did apparently act as an assassin for a while).
I still haven't seen enough from Akainu to say he gets enjoyment. Yeah he got loud and pissed off but I'm not seeing bloodlust.
I'm not saying he constantly wants to kill "evil people", just that he apparently hates evil so very strongly I can't imagine that he doesn't like what he does on some level.
Yeah maybe he has a tragic past due to pirates.
What I meant was that your average marine is probably like "oh, criminals, they'll cause trouble and hurt people so we need to get rid of them". Akainu is probably more like "how dare those people be evil
Don't confuse negative for strict, stern, serious, extreme, violent, etc.
I think that in One Piece, "extreme" and "violent" (as in killing) are enough to enough to make him seem like a villain character.
Determination and a conviction to thwart evil are pretty apparent in Akainu's character. You just choose not to see it positively or a pro and not a con.
And who decides that? Cuz from the world we live in that's how it's been for a quite long time. The only thing that's changed is the arena ppl choose to fight for what they think is right and yet war is always an option to prove that.
You did say earlier that laws aren't always just. I'm not saying they aren't ever just, but if everyone in the One Piece world knew that the government was executing people for learning history and not primarily for trying to revive the ancient weapons, what would they think?