I don't really want the WG to be destoryed, but I want the marines(Part of the WG) to be weakened a lot.
Chapter 572 "The Times They Are A-Changin'" Discussion
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@Thousand:
OMG XDXDXD I just found an awesome gem and I had to share it and I didn't know any other popular thread to place it.
Without further ado, something that will give a whole different perspective to the war:)
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/Jollie-chan/da511fd055f064356ddf9f5e94f8e477.jpg
i now finally understand why kuma wears such clothes which look like a target:9
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@Thousand:
OMG XDXDXD I just found an awesome gem and I had to share it and I didn't know any other popular thread to place it.
Without further ado, something that will give a whole different perspective to the war:)
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq200/Jollie-chan/da511fd055f064356ddf9f5e94f8e477.jpg
Amazing pic! lol
Good ol' Boa
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@Uzumaki_D_Kenichi:
THANK YOU FOR SOME GOOD PERSPECTIVE!!!!
And I think BB will show up, just not at M HQ but at Mariejois, where he will destroy everything! eah, the entore WG will have fallen by the end of this arc!
That's what I would like, but the chances of it happening? Slim. Unless he did take everyone from level six with him….I agree with this (just don't feel like quoting him again because it takes up to much space)
but really someone with good insight
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@Thousand:
I love how all the "ACE MUST DIE" fags are already shitting on Oda's writing skills even though it would have been mediocre writing if Ace HAD died.
You don't even know what a realistic war is. All you have is some mish-mashed idea generated by exposure to different media. Just because Oda had a different idea of what makes a war doesn't make his ideas any less valid.
I'm not even saying Ace had to die. In fact, with all the character development he was getting, it would have been stupid to just kill him off. Just felt that this war felt stale. Didn't even feel like a war, just a bunch of stale skirmishes that flowed awkwardly. Of course, having long battles among all the chaos would be stupid, but the heavy lack of emphasis on casualties in this war made it feel pretty shitty. Maybe I'm alone on this one, but I felt it dragged on a bit much near the end too.
Fanboy garbage
Not even worth reading. People like you are no better than a Naruto fanboy.
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
That can't be an excuse when Bleach and Naruto continue to kill popular characters(at least enemies) and maintain their popularity in Japan.
Oda limited himself with the whole destroying dreams instead of killing villains. He's taken it the extra mile by not even killing named bad guys who haven't really hinted at having dreams or named nobodies.
Plenty of shonen manga can still be great and kill popular characters without using some excuse. I tend to wish Togashi didn't get sick and all those hiatuses set HxH back cuz that would've been a great example.
The chap wasn't great but it wasn't that bad and I kinda expected ppl not to be satisfied with this war but
Perhaps I should have said popular "good guy" characters. Don't even want to start talking about how terrible Oda of a decision it is on Oda's part not to kill off some of Luffy's enemies (seriously, why the fuck didn't people like Spandam die).
But anyway, Oda just doesn't really have the balls to kill off someone like Ace or a Strawhat (although killing a SH would be dumb). If he actually ever did do something that radical, and managed to pull it off, it would be fantastic. But he never really goes out of his boundaries, and the outcome is a series which comes off as a bit dull.
I still enjoy it, but at the same time, meh. Can't single him out though. Most Shonen writers wouldn't have the guts to kill off some of the most important good characters in their series.Maybe it's just this arc. Hopefully the next one brings back the adventurous feel that I love about One Piece.
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Why Ace still has his gay shoes? I now remember that he had some kick ass boots before..
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I'm not even saying Ace had to die. In fact, with all the character development he was getting, it would have been stupid to just kill him off. Just felt that this war felt stale. Didn't even feel like a war, just a bunch of stale skirmishes that flowed awkwardly. Of course, having long battles among all the chaos would be stupid, but the heavy lack of emphasis on casualties in this war made it feel pretty shitty. Maybe I'm alone on this one, but I felt it dragged on a bit much near the end too.
The people in this war are supposed to be the top of the top, even the no named marines getting beat up are of captain morgan strength at least. they are the super fodder we have seen.
so then all these huge named guys; Commanders, VA's, Admirals, NW Captains, WB, Shichi are super strong. They aren't going to go down in one hit. They will put a huge fight or they wouldn't be these huge named guys. the only way any of them are going down are if they get into a long drawn out one on one battle.
well besides the few times when super outmatched like WB vs VA, or stuff similar to that. None of these guys would be known and famous if they were to pull a bellamy and get OHKO by someone else.
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I'm not even saying Ace had to die. In fact, with all the character development he was getting, it would have been stupid to just kill him off.
[…]
But anyway, Oda just doesn't really have the balls to kill off someone like Ace or a Strawhat (although killing a SH would be dumb). If he actually ever did do something that radical, and managed to pull it off, it would be fantastic. But he never really goes out of his boundaries, and the outcome is a series which comes off as a bit dull.
Kind of contradicting yourself there, aren't you?
As well, yes, other series kill off characters. However, every time they kill characters with any amount of development, the fanbase generally erupts in anger. Not just people who are fans of that specific character, either; for a recent example from Naruto, when
! Kisame died, a lot of people complained that now he would never be able to fight Gai. Even unlikeable characters have some form of fanbase; I've seen quite a few people on these forums who were fans of Spandam, even when he was at his worst! When characters, especially ones with major impact on the plot, are killed off, it permanently alienates that character's fanbase. Given that One Piece or any other long-running series would not have ran nearly as long in the magazine if it hadn't been popular, the fanbase is a series' life blood, and extremely important to it.
As well, despite his general lack of activity before this arc, Ace consistently ranks as one of the highest in the series popularity polls. That says nothing about the quality of his character (for example, look at Bleach and Naruto's popularity polls), but it shows how big of a fanbase he has despite not having many appearances. To use an example from another series, Buso Renkin, it was stated in the author's notes for the chapter that when
! Captain Bravo apparently made a heroic sacrifice to protect the main characters and died, the popularity results were divided. Some felt it was a fitting send-off to the character, while others disliked the fact that he apparently died. Even though he wasn't in the top three as far as the series' popularity polls were concerned, and the author revealed him to be alive shortly after, it was surely no coincidence that the series was taken out of the magazine less than a volume's worth of chapters later. One Piece would not be effected that badly, given that it is a mainstay of the magazine, but losing popularity is not something that an author wants, especially since popularity determines whether or not your series continues running in the magazine.
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So, One Piece went back to being a children's fantasy-story?
Oh wait,
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Why Ace still has his gay shoes? I now remember that he had some kick ass boots before..
Those are actually Dorothy's red slippers covered in black paint, imbued with magical GPS powers. :ninja:
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Kind of contradicting yourself there, aren't you?
No he's not. Saying Ace doesn't have to die now and would've been stupid if he did due to all of the character development Oda gave him and saying Oda won't kill someone like Ace are two different things.
He's talking overall in regards to the manga.
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This post is deleted!
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Perfect. Just perfect. I've been busy lately so I haven't had time for AP forums but I just had to give a good review on this chapter.
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srsly people still complaining and saying things like oda doesn't have the balls to kill off a major character. i dont think he doesn't have the guts to pull it off, it's just that each character that doesn't get killed off seems to have a larger purpose in the overall story. crocodile? that nigga should have killed off imo during the alabasta arc, but in the end, he was needed for the impel down arc. spandam hasn't been killed off, and i REALLY think he should have, but who knows how the story unravels.
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"The Times They Are A-Changin" Oda is sending out the message, He will kill major characters now.
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Oda probably justwants WB to have the honor of being the first current character to die. It shall not belong to the likes of Pell or Igaram! Aw…who am I kidding....
Oh wait...but he did kill off Merry(sorta)
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The only character Oda truely killed off was Kuma. I was really interested in understanding what he was like. He seemed so calm and… awesome! Now he is mindless, if that isn't killing off a character I don't know what is.
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Akainu is always after the traitors. Makes me think that himself is a traitor.
I wouldn't be surprised if he ended taking the place of Sengoku, and beginning a "new era" for the marines too, being even more oppressive. -
The only character Oda truely killed off was Kuma. I was really interested in understanding what he was like. He seemed so calm and… awesome! Now he is mindless, if that isn't killing off a character I don't know what is.
You still didn't understand that Kuma human body has also been reconstructed ? It's clear evidence that Vagapunk dismantled him piece by piece to build a machine using his DF, while in the same time he surgically rebuilt the human body without any DF. So the real human Kuma got a new virginity so to speak.
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in a way you cant say oda never kills any one off in fact its probaly better that he didnt kill any major players as they are needed for latter plot lines, however some charctors do die in flash backs ect ( lucky rox killed a mountain bandit in the first chapter) which gives us a suspence on what will happen, and iam sure that after white beard dies ( if he does) when the SH enter the new world we will be seeing more deaths…
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You still didn't understand that Kuma human body has also been reconstructed ? It's clear evidence that Vagapunk dismantled him piece by piece to build a machine using his DF, while in the same time he surgically rebuilt the human body without any DF. So the real human Kuma got a new virginity so to speak.
Interesting perspective but I don't think I agree with it. My money is on Kuma being tragically screwed since Oda likes to play the tragic characters up for all they are worth. Plus it's a bit of a Frankenstein cliche in the making, and he has a way of twisting such cliches to suit his own premises.
I feel Kuma's Bible is a bit of a hint as to his turning away from his past of "merciless killing", for the purpose of making him more sympathetic, though really this may be my American bias talking (not christian). I could also see the Bible taking on a more twisted meaning. -
Interesting perspective but I don't think I agree with it. My money is on Kuma being tragically screwed since Oda likes to play the tragic characters up for all they are worth. Plus it's a bit of a Frankenstein cliche in the making, and he has a way of twisting such cliches to suit his own premises.
i think with hogback we had already enough frankenstein references…
kuma being a revolutionary should be one part of the puzzle..
how vegapunk can create a cyborg, or use DF powers within his weapons(pacifistas laser beam from kizaru) still has to be revealed and i have the feeling that kuma was actually a guy which suffered cause of his sins(as a tyrann) and wanted to chance the world to something good...so a heroic hero -
srsly people still complaining and saying things like oda doesn't have the balls to kill off a major character. i dont think he doesn't have the guts to pull it off, it's just that each character that doesn't get killed off seems to have a larger purpose in the overall story. crocodile? that nigga should have killed off imo during the alabasta arc, but in the end, he was needed for the impel down arc. spandam hasn't been killed off, and i REALLY think he should have, but who knows how the story unravels.
There's no problem with keeping a character alive for the sake of having him appear later in the story. The bigger problem is that he doesn't create any characters for the sake of just dying and showing that this is not childs play. Back then at Arabasta Oda did have the balls to pull a stunt like that. The Tsumegeri Guard had no other purpose in the story but to die and give things the required serious undertone.
@Don:
i think with hogback we had already enough frankenstein references…
kuma being a revolutionary should be one part of the puzzle..
how vegapunk can create a cyborg, or use DF powers within his weapons(pacifistas laser beam from kizaru) still has to be revealed and i have the feeling that kuma was actually a guy which suffered cause of his sins(as a tyrann) and wanted to chance the world to something good…so a heroic heroThat was only on the scientific level. There's hardly been any references in terms of the monster/creation being a tragic character other than Cindry licking the floor and Choppers reaction to it.
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That was only on the scientific level. There's hardly been any references in terms of the monster/creation being a tragic character other than Cindry licking the floor and Choppers reaction to it.
didn
t odz step on him? also it don
t have to be 100% accurat in every direction..http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/449/06/
this should be enough to understand the reference -
@Don:
didn
t odz step on him? also it don
t have to be 100% accurat in every direction..http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/449/06/
this should be enough to understand the referenceHogback is not the creation, he's the creator.
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thats why he is frankenstein.
also the Monster would be more fitting for his creation of odz..
morias power would equal a lighning ;) -
Anybody else think what Doflamingo says on page 10 is foreshadowing for something? Perhaps another trap set by the marines (However something that they were hoping not to have to use). :)
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@Don:
thats why he is frankenstein.
also the Monster would be more fitting for his creation of odz..
morias power would equal a lighning ;)The point is that when Dr.Octacon spoke of Kuma being a tragic character with a Frankenstein reference, it was refering to Frankenstein's Monster and not Dr. Frankenstein himself.
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The point is that when Dr.Octacon spoke of Kuma being a tragic character with a Frankenstein reference, it was refering to Frankenstein's Monster and not Dr. Frankenstein himself.
ehhhm okay, i think we talked a little in differnet directions
lets say both examples could be connected to frankenstein(hogback\vegapunk) or frankenstein
s monster(odz,cindy\kuma)..
with kuma being a tragic character..i dont know he wanted to be transformed and he wasn
t brought to life..he was just "upgraded" but for sure its tragic to lose his own mind…but we don
t know so far the reason of that. -
This is what WB told to his sons :
The Times They Are A-Changin'Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.
The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'. -
Let's all join Whitebeard's pirates.He-Man already did that.Proof- http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/572/15/ lower right corner.
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this is the lyrics of the song
and it has the same meaning of the actual situation
Maybe WB will make a big quake that could kill him self and all the HQ -
So any chance Oda will do a Whitebeard with all division commanders colour spread? I hope he will. (but yeah I am aware it might get a bit crowded)
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Let's all join Whitebeard's pirates.He-Man already did that.Proof- http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/572/15/ lower right corner.
and next to him skeletor or what?
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So any chance Oda will do a Whitebeard with all division commanders colour spread? I hope he will. (but yeah I am aware it might get a bit crowded)
if that happens..i can die xD realy i can die with my eyes shut
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I also hope on a NW Captains colourspread.
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I can see a time skip of about 6months
the world needs to redevelop
ace forming his own crewluffy recovering (maybe physical aging during the 6 months)
crew getting back together maybe longerchaos in fishman island will be the first arc and that will be what the crew need to change luffy will make the new world free
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Hancock and Iva joining forces seems possible to me.
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If Boa get on the escape Ship the aftermath of this War will surely be awesome, with Luffy, 3 Shichibukai, all the WB commanders, Iva, Buggy, etc, though is sad that after WB sacrifice there is not going to be any big party.
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If Boa get on the escape Ship the aftermath of this War will surely be awesome, with Luffy, 3 Shichibukai, all the WB commanders, Iva, Buggy, etc, though is sad that after WB sacrifice there is not going to be any big party.
Croc aint going anywhere . Its gonna be WB - Croc VS Marines.
Because…..
his story with WB isnt over yet.
he has nothing to do on WB's ship.
he doesnt comply with anyone's FUCKING ORDERS !!!!! -
i think after this WAR! iva will leave luffy and treis to find dragon…
or also possible would be that he go to his island and helps sanji to get back to shabondy.- -
Do you say that because it's a main law (which i've never heard about) there is no way to handle such a delicate situation differently?
What impact does this law have? Does it automatically make every situation it's used in cool?
Pretty much. It's almost as common as showing cleavage or ridiculous looking explosions. It's not always a good aproach but a very wide spread one. It adds the coolness factors as you mentioned and also very valauble screen time since this way they can stretch out the action more
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I have a small question which has been bothering me regarding this saga! I would appreciate your inputs regarding this!
Whitebeard has Haoushoku haki right? And he knows well that he has haoushoku and that he can faint people using it. Then why didn he use it when required and instead said "Oh Shit…I cannot reach the execution platform and the like?"
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I have a small question which has been bothering me regarding this saga! I would appreciate your inputs regarding this!
Whitebeard has Haoushoku haki right? And he knows well that he has haoushoku and that he can faint people using it. Then why didn he use it when required and instead said "Oh Shit…I cannot reach the execution platform and the like?"
His wounds flared up.
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I have a small question which has been bothering me regarding this saga! I would appreciate your inputs regarding this!
Whitebeard has Haoushoku haki right? And he knows well that he has haoushoku and that he can faint people using it. Then why didn he use it when required and instead said "Oh Shit…I cannot reach the execution platform and the like?"
You are talking about the moment before Luffy's outburst, right? It depends on the translation you read. Some (bad) translations have him say "Oh no, I cannot do a thing!" Those are mistranslations. In the correct translation he says something like " You really think I can't stop you?!" But then is hindered by a pain in the chest to save Ace. So he was probably going to use something like Haoushoku haki but his injuries got him right the moment he wanted to intervene.
Hope this helps. -
Good Chapter!
Also, am I the only one who immediately thought of
when they read the chapter title?…Working on a crappy AMV in the style of the Watchmen opening as we speak
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@S.C.:
His wounds flared up.
I am talking about the whole arc…..not after the admirals screwed him properly. He never used it from the beginning of the arc when he had chances. Even the first time when marines try to execute him it is croc who saves ace.
Even if he is wounded, since haki is willpower it should not matter as long as he has the will to save Ace. Does that mean that WB does not have enough will to save ace? Luffy got raped big time still he was hell bent on saving Ace. I hope WB learns atleast this lesson before he dies.
You are talking about the moment before Luffy's outburst, right? It depends on the translation you read. Some (bad) translations have him say "Oh no, I cannot do a thing!" Those are mistranslations. In the correct translation he says something like " You really think I can't stop you?!" But then is hindered by a pain in the chest to save Ace. So he was probably going to use something like Haoushoku haki but his injuries got him right the moment he wanted to intervene.
Hope this helps.This seems like a plausible explanation but is valid only during the time when Luffy used Haoshoku right? Again the same question of why he didn use it from the beginning arises!
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To use an example from another series, Buso Renkin, it was stated in the author's notes for the chapter that when
! Captain Bravo apparently made a heroic sacrifice to protect the main characters and died, the popularity results were divided. Some felt it was a fitting send-off to the character, while others disliked the fact that he apparently died. Even though he wasn't in the top three as far as the series' popularity polls were concerned, and the author revealed him to be alive shortly after, it was surely no coincidence that the series was taken out of the magazine less than a volume's worth of chapters later.
The manga got canned just for giving the impression that a semi-popular character had died? Well that's just harsh.
@Ivotas:There's no problem with keeping a character alive for the sake of having him appear later in the story. The bigger problem is that he doesn't create any characters for the sake of just dying and showing that this is not childs play. Back then at Arabasta Oda did have the balls to pull a stunt like that. The Tsumegeri Guard had no other purpose in the story but to die and give things the required serious undertone.
Oda can't really do that here though because it would rain on the parade of Ace being saved. Whitebeard is the only obvious exception, because of the foreshadowing and monologue about him being willing to give his life for his 'kids' and him belonging to the old era. But if the admirals had killed off a bunch of division commanders and NW captains, Ace's life would have just been traded in for many others, and the whole rescue operation more of a failure than a success.
@Fortysix2:I am talking about the whole arc…..not after the admirals screwed him properly. He never used it from the beginning of the arc when he had chances. Even the first time when marines try to execute him it is croc who saves ace.
Even if he is wounded, since haki is willpower it should not matter as long as he has the will to save Ace. Does that mean that WB does not have enough will to save ace? Luffy got raped big time still he was hell bent on saving Ace. I hope WB learns atleast this lesson before he dies.
Maybe he was worried about knocking out all the fodder in his own ranks, but tbh he should have done this and I don't think we'll get a decent explanation, besides "he's old and sickly".
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Oda simply shouldn't have given Newgate the King's Disposition of Ambition; would've been a lot better and saved a bunch of hassle regarding what he could/couldn't have done.
Shanks too, but that's just me.