Some times it feels like all of ya'll are Brazilian
Chapter 1,024: So-and-So
-
-
Very cool chapter! I like the flashback with little cute Yamato, it's a very interesting story with lots of hints and lots of things that still needs to be adressed… I'm thirsty for more
-
The problem is that we have yet to see any Wano character demonstrate criticism for Oden's actions that weren't eventually overturned. Because anyone who hears about his stories just seems to love the guy.
Who's better than Momo or Hiyori to do it… especially Momo as a proof that not only his body grew bigger, but that he also matured and isn't just an 8-year-old in 28-year-old body.
-
-
@The:
That was a nice little chapter, and little Yamato is so adorable.
This chapter really solidified how disappointing the Oden flashback was for me. It's neat that Yamato had a huge fascination with Oden and he wants to be just like Oden. Along with the samurai and their undying loyalty to Oden it shows just how powerful of a presence he had with so many people. However, every time this happens I am reminded of that extremely long and dragged on flashback and what we saw of Oden just clashes so much with how the people in universe view him. I can get behind the scabbards to an extent since Oden personally took them in, but for everyone else outside of that, Oden was known to be a trouble maker and then he left the island for a long time until coming back, and then when everyone thought he was going to save Wano he had to embarrass himself throughout the entire country. Even with the explanation of why he danced around, the flashback never made Oden likable to me, let alone this figure that is revered by all the samurai.
Still, with all that said I really enjoyed Yamato's flashback and his short interactions with the samurai. Them being sort of mentors, being kind to Yamato, and reading Oden's journal to him while a short part of the chapter was the highlight of the chapter to me.
Very well put. I think it is first clear failure of Oda to make a character likeable to the readers when he fully intended to do so.
-
Very well put. I think it is first clear failure of Oda to make a character likeable to the readers when he fully intended to do so.
Don't generalize your experience. Oden is the 24th most popular character in the series according to the last official worldwide OP popularity poll – and his popularity shows in any internet forum not named Arlong Park.
-
Don't generalize your experience. Oden is the 24th most popular character in the series according to the last official worldwide OP popularity poll – and his popularity shows in any internet forum not named Arlong Park.
I would say he finished 24th because the poll happened during Wano arc. Historically running arc characters did better in popular poll. We will see how he is placed in next(and final) poll.He is not the character to have enduring effect.
-
Don't generalize your experience. Oden is the 24th most popular character in the series according to the last official worldwide OP popularity poll – and his popularity shows in any internet forum not named Arlong Park.
Oden is kind of the Marineford war of characters.
-
Oden is kind of the Marineford war of characters.
I love how this perfectly frames both Oden AND the Marineford arc at the same time.
-
About Kaido's move Vajra Arrow (Kongou Kabura: 金剛鏑) in chapter 1024, "Kongou" is a Buddhist term meaning "the hardest metal" like a diamond. Interestingly, it was already used as the name of Crocodile's final attack in Alabasta: Desert Kongou Treasure Sword (砂漠の金剛宝刀).
Pics
!
! -
I would say he finished 24th because the poll happened during Wano arc. Historically running arc characters did better in popular poll. We will see how he is placed in next(and final) poll.He is not the character to have enduring effect.
Of course characters are more popular in their own arcs, but compare Oden to any other wanoise – Oden is miles ahead of them, with the sole exception of Yamato. So, as you can see, Oden could easily have placed anywhere in the rankings with other wanoise characters, but he did way better because he is popular. You can see that in a single visit to Reddit.
-
Don't generalize your experience. Oden is the 24th most popular character in the series according to the last official worldwide OP popularity poll – and his popularity shows in any internet forum not named Arlong Park.
Yea it's really amusing to see someone pretend otherwise that Oden isn't crazy popular overall. I think the only flashback character more popular in said global poll is Corazon?
Also like, just off the top of my head Rebecca from Dressrosa has a far more mixed reputation among the fandom.
-
Yea it's really amusing to see someone pretend otherwise that Oden isn't crazy popular overall. I think the only flashback character more popular in said global poll is Corazon?
Also like, just off the top of my head Rebecca from Dressrosa has a far more mixed reputation among the fandom.
And yet she placed 29th in the poll taking place during Dressrosa, only a few numbers lower than Oden who is at 24 (since that poll was Japan only though it might be more fair to compare her spot to Oden's Japanese ranking… which is at 26).
That said there is a fanbase for Oden that shouldn't be ignored. He's not unpopular, he's divisive. Also Oden ranking so far ahead of almost every other Wano character is kinda sad, shows how little impact the rest of the cast has.
-
Oden, popular?. Well everybody got their problems.
You like who you like. Me personally don’t like this character. He had or has no impact on me as a reader. Could have done without his flashback. I think he would have been better as we knew him before the flashback and that’s how he should have remained.
Someone mentioned Corazon in comparison to Oden. Please don’t make me laugh. Corazon story captured my attention, it didn’t start that way. I thought that Corazon was gonna be what Oden is to me, a jokey character, someone that I don’t give a crap about and annoys me. Nope, Corazon was just using weird trickery and even annoyance as a disguise hahahaha. But in truth Corazon story was saving Law and did it in such a “YEAH” way. Somebody described Corazon story as coming out of nowhere and bizarre storyline and character and at some moments it kind seemed that way to me but It’s not. He earned me with his cared for Law and his sacrifice.
Yeah Oden sacrificed himself too but i have no interest. As a reader he did not capture me. He’s a jokey character to me. I never found him or his story serious. Maybe he should have been more dramatic or something, I don’t know. He just seemed like the representation of Pandaman
-
Oden is kind of the Marineford war of characters.
Am I finally meeting someone else that isnt a fan of Marineford? I thought those where myths.
But yes Oden's chadness resonnated well with most people from what I can see out of the forum.
-
It is resssuring to know that i get to hang out in one of the few places where thinking Oden is a dick is a valid opinion. Can you be patriotic for a shit posting manga forum? Because this anti-Odeness is really appealing to my flag waving side.
-
I find it hilarious that Oden's flashback made me more sympathetic towards Orochi than Oden and the scabbards (except maybe Kin'emon).
One comparison analysis I'd love to see someday is Otohime and Oden, seeing how they're both leadership figures who are beloved by their subjects and carry a dream that directly influences their closest ones and the future of their country. One character hit all the right notes for me, the highlight of an arc I otherwise consider the lowest point of the series, and the other… yeah.
-
Lets keep the hatetorade on Oden alive.
Before the flashback I thought this character was a very respectable character. I thought that he was gonna be like Yasuie before the smiley but he turned out to be like Yasuie AFTER the Smiley. He is a joke. He’s such a joke that when kanjuro created that fake Oden, readers thought that that indeed could be real Oden because that’s how his character was. Is he dead?. I don’t know. He is over here, no he’s over there. Where the heck is Pandaman?.
There was an overall lack of seriousness to him. He feels like a fifth dimensional character from Superman series. The possibilities of him are vague and infinite. There’s no foundation to him, there’s no solidness.
-
Am I finally meeting someone else that isnt a fan of Marineford? I thought those where myths.
I am still reeling from that thread where i learned that people found Marineford to be better and more enjoyable then Arlong Park. Fanservice sells i guess.
-
Lets keep the hatetorade on Oden alive.
Before the flashback I thought this character was a very respectable character. I thought that he was gonna be like Yasuie before the smiley but he turned out to be like Yasuie AFTER the Smiley. He is a joke. He’s such a joke that when kanjuro created that fake Oden, readers thought that that indeed could be real Oden because that’s how his character was. Is he dead?. I don’t know. He is over here, no he’s over there. Where the heck is Pandaman?.
There was an overall lack of seriousness to him. He feels like a fifth dimensional character from Superman series. The possibilities of him are vague and infinite. There’s no foundation to him, there’s no solidness.
That lack of seriousness you talk about is exactly how I feel about Oden and about this raid in general. It's almost like fighting Kaido isn't a big deal.
-
@Zar:
And yet she placed 29th in the poll taking place during Dressrosa, only a few numbers lower than Oden who is at 24 (since that poll was Japan only though it might be more fair to compare her spot to Oden's Japanese ranking… which is at 26).
That said there is a fanbase for Oden that shouldn't be ignored. He's not unpopular, he's divisive. Also Oden ranking so far ahead of almost every other Wano character is kinda sad, shows how little impact the rest of the cast has.
If you agree he's not unpopular, then we agree lol, as that's my point in the first place
People taking issue with aspects with his character is one thing, but honestly believing that the consensus is that the fandom largely did not care for him is ludicrous, especially after the global poll results.
And Oden ranking higher than almost every new Wano character to be expected, since the arc wasted no time in stressing just how important he was. Just because he's dead doesn't change that, as we already showed with Corazon.
-
If you agree he's not unpopular, then we agree lol, as that's my point in the first place
People taking issue with aspects with his character is one thing, but honestly believing that the consensus is that the fandom largely did not care for him is ludicrous, especially after the global poll results.
And Oden ranking higher than almost every new Wano character to be expected, since the arc wasted no time in stressing just how important he was. Just because he's dead doesn't change that, as we already showed with Corazon.
Ah yeah, sorry if I sounded dismissive. I meant to point out that using his poll standing as proof of popularity had potential flaws, but otherwise I agree.
Like him or hate him, Oden at least feels like a realized character with a presence, which was very welcome after two acts of relatively bland characters.
-
I am still reeling from that thread where i learned that people found Marineford to be better and more enjoyable then Arlong Park. Fanservice sells i guess.
I overall enjoyed Marineford, but it is definitely weaker compared to a lot of other arcs with it being mostly fanservice and just fights left and right, which when it comes to what I enjoy most about the series fights are at the bottom of the list. Also, with Arlong Park being my favorite arc that's crazy that people find Marineford of all arcs better than Arlong Park. Generally those kind of people seem to be one of two groups, people who've gone through the series once, so Arlong Park is a distant memory, or those who are more fight junkies. Of course there are probably outliers of those two groups, but that had been my general interactions from the past.
@Zar:
Ah yeah, sorry if I sounded dismissive. I meant to point out that using his poll standing as proof of popularity had potential flaws, but otherwise I agree.
Like him or hate him, Oden at least feels like a realized character with a presence, which was very welcome after two acts of relatively bland characters.
Hard disagree with Oden being a fully realized character, though can agree that most of the characters from the previous acts being unmemorable. I had to drop Wano for over a year due to how little I cared for what was going on and no investment in any of the characters that had been introduced. At most I was invested with Kinimon and Kanjuro since we had a little more time with them before. Momo became a little more interesting but I still haven't been completely invested in him even now. The bloat of cast has really made it hard to be invested in this arc compared to a lot of previous arcs for me.
Since I've probably been coming off pretty hard, if you are someone who does like Oden, I'm glad you do since that means you are getting more enjoyment out of this arc. Unfortunately for me and others here, that's not the case.
-
@The:
Hard disagree with Oden being a fully realized character, though can agree that most of the characters from the previous acts being unmemorable. I had to drop Wano for over a year due to how little I cared for what was going on and no investment in any of the characters that had been introduced. At most I was invested with Kinimon and Kanjuro since we had a little more time with them before. Momo became a little more interesting but I still haven't been completely invested in him even now. The bloat of cast has really made it hard to be invested in this arc compared to a lot of previous arcs for me.
Since I've probably been coming off pretty hard, if you are someone who does like Oden, I'm glad you do since that means you are getting more enjoyment out of this arc. Unfortunately for me and others here, that's not the case.
No worries, I'm not too fond of Oden either. And even if I did like him I'm more than glad for people to express different opinions.
When i say fully realized I think of it as Oden having a strong personality and a clear purpose. I'd go so far and say he even has a few flaws making him more human, like his inability to rely on others or the insatiable curiosity for exploration. In a complete vacuum I like the guy. But the way he's treated in the story is absurd.
Oden putting down a food dish to eat on the grave of a dear friend? Completely in character.
The grieving relatives secretly admiring him for this and Oden receiving no real consequences for his actions? That's where it falls apart.
Rinse and repeat for the whole flashback. A strong character that's utilized horribly.
That's the way i see it at least, though I fully understand if you or others disagree with that view. There's also an interesting question what "fully realized" means in the first place. If we include that the character must be utilized well in the story, then I'd agree that he doesn't meet the requirements.
And interesting to see you dropped the series for that long. I believe I've kept reading all the way through, but for the first two acts of Wano I was barely hanging on and considered dropping it. It wasn't until Onigashima that I got into it again, and by then I couldn't even remember what happened previously. Something something samurai. Had to re-read the arc to get up to date.
-
Can't understand how someone dislikes Oden
Sure he made a pact with a rat, he was an idiot for trusting the invaders of his home country
but maybe that dancing naked for 5 years made him crazy strong since before that he got sent flying by Roger and after that he almost killed Kaidou!! ( which in my eyes Kaidou is stronger than Roger with 40 failed executions attempts compared to a solo successful one ) .
-
@Zar:
No worries, I'm not too fond of Oden either. And even if I did like him I'm more than glad for people to express different opinions.
When i say fully realized I think of it as Oden having a strong personality and a clear purpose. I'd go so far and say he even has a few flaws making him more human, like his inability to rely on others or the insatiable curiosity for exploration. In a complete vacuum I like the guy. But the way he's treated in the story is absurd.
Oden putting down a food dish to eat on the grave of a dear friend? Completely in character.
The grieving relatives secretly admiring him for this and Oden receiving no real consequences for his actions? That's where it falls apart.
Rinse and repeat for the whole flashback. A strong character that's utilized horribly.
That's the way i see it at least, though I fully understand if you or others disagree with that view. There's also an interesting question what "fully realized" means in the first place. If we include that the character must be utilized well in the story, then I'd agree that he doesn't meet the requirements.
And interesting to see you dropped the series for that long. I believe I've kept reading all the way through, but for the first two acts of Wano I was barely hanging on and considered dropping it. It wasn't until Onigashima that I got into it again, and by then I couldn't even remember what happened previously. Something something samurai. Had to re-read the arc to get up to date.
It really does come down to personal preference. For me there's nothing inherently wrong about his character, just that he didn't personally leave an impression on me. Though for me it still comes down to the flashback not having a clear focus. Past flashbacks usually have a pretty clear focus, and even if a large amount of time goes by you have an emotional core. For example with Franky's flashback, a lot of time goes by but it focuses on Tom building the train and certain aspects revolving around that. Also, most other flashbacks have a character we've known for a bit so that helps make us care up front. Oden's flashback seems to lack a clear focus to me, not really zeroing in on a something to make me attached to his character. Also doesn't help it was the longest flashback we've had now.
As for dropping the series, I had been reading weekly for about a decade and sometime into Wholecake Island I started to get fatigue. By the time Wano was starting I was reading more out of obligation rather than because I wanted to. Took a long trip early last year before Covid really hit so when I got back having not had time to read a few chapters I took a hiatus and waited until I decided I was interested enough to get back in and also started from the beginning to help rekindle my love for the series. While not falling in love with the arc reading in bulk and being more engaged I have found more to enjoy with Wano than when first starting, so that makes me more interested to read week to week.
-
Ah another thread turned in to an Oden hate-fest. How boring.
-
That's what happens when the arc's story isn't captivating.
-
Oden's fine, in my book. But I can understand why people may not have enjoyed his character and arc.
Frankly, I believe Oda intended it to be this way all along, Oden being this divisive, controversial figure; all falls within Oda's aims of demonstrating how perceptions can easily flip-flop and be manipulated, both in terms of the Wano public and we the readers. He knowingly set out to irk a segment of readers with the Oden lovefest imo, but arguably also strove to capitalize on that to compel people to second-guess their initial feelings when Oden in turn hit his lows, and back again.
Not that he truly in all likelihood ever intended for Oden to be generally viewed as anything less than an all around positive figure worthy of praise that many would appreciate, of course, but I think the expectation was also there that some others wouldn't be sold.
Pretty sure we'll see the topic of hero worship, and its pitfalls, explored further as we go.
-
That's what happens when the arc's story isn't captivating.
Is that really why?
Seems the same petty ppl have just latched on to their favorite thing to do, hate on Oden.
Doesn't seem to matter how great a chapter is or how captivating the arc. Seen this in other arcs as well.
-
The topic seems to spring fairly organic from the chapter itself. That the samurai deify Oden despite Oden being kind of a dick and really doing more bad than good for them during his lifetime is interesting. Now of course i am just a salty hater, but others had valid points about why this in-universe Oden worship feels off.
-
I guess the people are just disappointed that a former Roger pirate is such a tragic character.
-
Rebecca who spent more panels crying than speaking being a few places away from contesting Oden's position who had an entire arc to him is fucking hilarious.
If in universe characters worship Corazon or anyone else from East Blue flashbacks, THAT I would stand behind.
Seeing the scabbards constant worship of Oden does more to annoy me and remind me of the flaws of the character than it does to remind me of his supposedly greatness.
Guy was selfish and irresponsible and his final act was a failed redemption, that's basically it. You would think the tragedy sell but the problem is that he's supposed to be this greater than life character, he's no Bellemere who was weaker than the fishman and forced into her situation because she was powerless all things considered. Oden had the power, the resources but none of the wisdom that made all the previous flashback characters great. All of them that came before were tragedies because they were literally stripped of all control of their situation and was powerless but tried their best. This guy, however, had all the chances, and a fighting chance but somehow managed to fuck it up repeatedly causing collateral damage to everyone else.
He also sailed half the world and came back the same person and somehow managed to achieve an unparalleled level of zero character development.He's not controversial, he's just shoehorned.