Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

[CarrotForNakama]

@Monquito:

You didnt even elaborate how that makes you think Yamato is late addition, even tho you admit that's agreat setup.

Yup sorry, I was talking only about the vivre card > Ace > Marineford. Not Yamato who is a late addition and not a setup in that manner.

@Syphin:

In terms of set-up for Yamato, Oda already started incorporating the relevance of Yamato since the start of the Wano Kuni Arc but just not in a manner the readers could understand at that time. But if one looks back on how Oda scripted the story, shades of "Yamato" can be noticed. I've stated it before at the start of the year but Yamato's set-up/foreshadow existed before Oda included his first partial in-panel appearance in chapter 971 and dropped the existence of Kaido's child in chapter 977. Oda appears to not have wanted to mention Yamato's name/existence until he had introduced Oden and covered his story as a Roger Pirates member.

Those are not enough to be considered setups, they are hint at best and still very late into the story. A setup must be a lot clearer than that.

As for Ace retrieve, it could have been because of anything, nothings tells us that it is because of Kaido's son. So the reveletation is still a late one. And even then we can't be sure that it was Oda's intent.

Oda didn't needed to mentionned Yamato's name, just the mention of "Kaido's son" would have been enough. It did not happened until very late and that is exceptionnal by Oda's standards.

For the moment, nothing proves that Yamato was conceptionalized early.

[Roosta]

@Zik:

The more Oda does not frame that as an issue in the story Yamato has to deal with or in any way depicts as a negative or drawback to his character the less it'll most likely be addressed.

I definitely agree with this, but it shouldn't be forgotten that every character in the present besides Kaido that heard Yamato talk about being Oden was confused (specifically Luffy, Ulti, Momonosuke, Shinobu, arguably BP fodder in Ch1014). The only ones who didn't react this way were Kaido and the samurai in the cave, both of whom first heard it as the aspiration of an 8 year old. It doesn't appear that Yamato said anything about being Oden to Ace, so we can't say there. It's been a while since we've seen these negative reactions, but the fact that Oda included them for every new character to hear "I am/became Oden" means there's still a good chance it's going to be addressed.

[Monquito]

@Shiebs:

So in the case that neither Carrot or Yamato joins this arc, do we think the last member will be someone we already know about or a new character entirely

This arc could realistically end in about 25 chapters, and quite likely less than that.

If Yamato doesn't change his mind(of which we have no signs at all), he's in.

[CarrotForNakama]

@Monquito:

This arc could realistically end in about 25 chapters, and quite likely less than that.

If Yamato doesn't change his mind(of which we have no signs at all), he's in.

There is no hint of Yamato joining if she doesn't change her mind. if Carrot doesn't join, no one will join.Carrot as been setup as the look out more than we can count. This is the last post, there is none other.

[Zik]

@IIskandar1997:

Where did I say that Yamato is trying to stop being Oden??? I said that it will eventually happen because this type of behavior doesnt fit a story, is nonsensical and unhealthy, did you skip how almost every time she proclained to be Oden people got weirded out? Even Luffy, who accepts most stuff, the only ones that didnt were the samurai in the cave, and she doesnt identify as a man she identifies as Oden and that has been argued ad nauseum already. My point is that this is the most likely route that her character will go through, I cant see the story continuing with her still wanting to be him, she will forever love and idolize him but as her own separate person and will achieve her dreams like that, and I belive that only then Luffy will start to call her by her name though this last part could happen before too

Yeah and every time it was played off as a joke. It became so repetitive it was looking like one of those Oda gags he makes up for characters.

That first part where you claim it doesn't fit the story (which is bullshit, nonsensical (despite the why being thoroughly explained), and unhealthy (subjective opinion surely not from an expert on mental health) reminds me a lot of some fans take on Sanji when it comes to his father's gene modifying goals to make his children in to weapons to maintain the Germa kingdom as him being a Nazi in everything but name minus the racist genocide and the notion that if Sanji does end up displaying that Judge's modifications ended up developing in him that would be some sort of affirmative stance on Nazis and Sanji as some Aryan ubermensch character. Its solely a western perspective that doesn't take account of Oda being a Japanese man of a certain age living in a country with a very different take on world war II. The claims that Oda is potentially sending the wrong message ,etc.

Both of these things just seem like unnecessary reaches that don't actually exist in the story.
@Roosta:

I definitely agree with this, but it shouldn't be forgotten that every character in the present besides Kaido that heard Yamato talk about being Oden was confused (specifically Luffy, Ulti, Momonosuke, Shinobu, arguably BP fodder in Ch1014). The only ones who didn't react this way were Kaido and the samurai in the cave, both of whom first heard it as the aspiration of an 8 year old. It doesn't appear that Yamato said anything about being Oden to Ace, so we can't say there. It's been a while since we've seen these negative reactions, but the fact that Oda included them for every new character to hear "I am/became Oden" means there's still a good chance it's going to be addressed.

It makes sense for Luffy, Momo, Shinobu, and anybody else in the alliance to react that way and I wouldn't call them negative reactions just questioning/confused/challenging ones but I think you have to notice the consistency of the inconsistencies. Oda is establishing Yamato wanting to be Oden since he was 8 years old. So for 20 years he has been saying this.

When he tells this to Kaido he never reacts confused. He accepts and immediately says well if you want it that way I'll treat you that way and this is before Kaido needed Yamato as some puppet shogun cuz he ate that specific mythological devil fruit. The samurai also immediately understood and accept Yamato's claim. They even put some stock/hope in him saying he'll help free Wano in 20 years that Oden foretold. These two opposing sides just flow with Yamato saying that.

Now on the other side of the coin where things remain consistently inconsistent is Oda wants this to be a gag. So Yamato has been saying he is Oden for 20 years, he's been openly opposing and challenging Kaido for 20 years. All of the Beast pirates know this. When Kaido gives the tobbi roppo a chance to be all stars they all are quite familiar on how big of the task reining Yamato in will actually be. Some don't even bother attempting to do it knowing its not worth it. Ulti and Page One have been Beast pirates since they were children. Yet she also acts confused with what Yamato says. I bet when they were kids that's probably exactly why they didn't get along or play with Yamato. 'This kid keeps talking about being a dead man!'

I don't think she's hearing Yamato say that for the first time. I just think upon meeting and being around Yamato long enough they all recognize this as the young master says a lot of crazy shit; 'Kaido's kid sure is saying some off the wall stuff. Isn't she a she? Why does he refer to her as son and not daughter anyway?' has surely been asked by every new member at some point after meeting or hearing about Yamato for the first time and the reply was probably 'Don't question the captain. Just roll with it.'. I mean the fodder beast pirates who are chasing Yamato around during his introduction don't even react to the shit he's saying.

@CarrotForNakama:

There is no hint of Yamato joining if she doesn't change her mind.

Well that's just wrong.

Yamato fits a bunch of patterns of how previous strawhats have joined the crew.

if Carrot doesn't join, no one will join.Carrot as been setup as the look out more than we can count. This is the last post, there is none other.

This is inconsequential. A lookout has never been presented as a need or want for the crew especially not from Luffy or any of the smarter members who would make such comments.

Not to mention nothing in the story points to Carrot having better eyesight than Usopp. So its not even something she's the best at.

@Shiebs:

So in the case that neither Carrot or Yamato joins this arc, do we think the last member will be someone we already know about or a new character entirely

Probably a new character.

Something has to match or top former warlord joining. If it's not only child of a yonkou then it's gotta be something else buzzworthy.

Still think it'd be cool if Luffy actually emanated to gett another D. character to join. Former celestial dragon is up there, former cipher pol agent is too (I don't consider any of masked cipher pol agents to be ppl we already know). I kinda doubt a new marine character switching sides would work and make sense at this stage (especially since I already don't think it makes any sense for Smoker to join).

Maybe Oda goes back to the beginning and has a mountain bandit join.

[Roosta]

@Zik:

Yeah and every time it was played off as a joke. It became so repetitive it was looking like one of those Oda gags he makes up for characters.

The difference is that inherited will is a central theme of One Piece, and that's exactly what Yamato is trying to do, as explicitly stated. Yamato is taking too far, and Oda has signaled that he's aware of this by having every character that hears "I am Oden" react with confusion.

[Zik]

@Roosta:

The difference is that inherited will is a central theme of One Piece, and that's exactly what Yamato is trying to do, as explicitly stated. Yamato is taking too far, and Oda has signaled that he's aware of this by having every character that hears "I am Oden" react with confusion.

Don't see why it can't be both.

Yamato taking wanting to be Oden too far can be a joke.

Yamato can also inherit Oden's will by helping open Wano's borders, saving Wano, helping beat Kaido, going off to be free, become a pirate and help the next pirate king and/or the next Joyboy bring about the dawn of the world.

I don't really see characters having just met Yamato being confused by his "I am Oden" claims as Oda raising an issue that needs to be addressed later on. Especially since Yamato usually explains his reasoning right after it is questioned. Did it with Luffy and then did it with Momo which allowed him to pass off the journal.

No reason to explain himself to a Beast pirate.

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

This is the last post, there is none other.

Based on what? Before Robin no one would have guessed that archaeologist is a position that has to be filled…

[CarrotForNakama]

@Zik:

Yeah and every time it was played off as a joke. It became so repetitive it was looking like one of those Oda gags he makes up for characters.

Well that's just wrong.

Yamato fits a bunch of patterns of how previous strawhats have joined the crew.

I'm not talking about the pattern but the fact that changing her mind would magicaly put her a the strawhat pass. There is indeed a FEW pattern that yamato checks out.

@Zik:

This is inconsequential. A lookout has never been presented as a need or want for the crew especially not from Luffy or any of the smarter members who would make such comments.

Wrong. The look out need is ALL OVER the story. It can be little panels, discussion about the post, the needs inerant to the sleep schedule reported by Oda in the SBS.. the need for the look out post and a GOOD one has been already setup multiple time in the story and FROM Luffy in chapter 304, and that without even mentionning how helpfull was the look out post in whole cake.

@Zik:

Not to mention nothing in the story points to Carrot having better eyesight than Usopp. So its not even something she's the best at.

i had this argument before.
First : Usopp is not a lookout, it's a cannonier, a sniper and a lyer. In battle on sea, Usopp has other things to do that to be in the lookout post.
Second: Eyesight is just one of the parameters for a good look out. Actuelly, the eyesight does not count, the ability to go high and fast is far better as the higher you go, the farthest you can see. Same Haki is not relevant on sea, the look-out is here to see ships movments, not people.
Third: In the non canon territory (the games) Carrot is always depicted as having a good eyesigh

I can go on.. the fact is that Carrot has been design as a look out from the start.. from her design to her personnality and this is undeniable.

@Zhenja:

Based on what? Before Robin no one would have guessed that archaeologist is a position that has to be filled…

Based on the story. To be relevant, a post needs to be introduced first in the story. Robin is the only exception but even with her this would not have been impossible to explore.

Robin is what I call the "cap giver". A "cap giver" is one of the most important member of a crew because they are the ones who give purpose to the direction that will take the ship. They are the reason why the ship will be headed in one direction rather than another. They are the road.

You can see that in real life with people like Chris Colombus who was only part of a crew as the one who give the direction.
in fact you can see this analogy being represented in the story the very moment Robin is first introduced into the story:

Chapter 114 named "Shinro" or "the cap/the road" This is the moment Oda make Robin give the first direction for the crew, a direction that will be first refused by Luffy.

Robin is an exception but her role was also setup in the story long before her actual recruitment. It needs to be the same for all the strawhats.

[Zik]

@CarrotForNakama:

I'm not talking about the pattern but the fact that changing her mind would magicaly put her a the strawhat pass.

Not sure what you're talking about here.

The idea that Yamato will change his mind about wanting to leave Wano is baseless speculation. It doesn't mean anything.

Wrong. The look out need is ALL OVER the story. It can be little panels, discussion about the post, the needs inerant to the sleep schedule reported by Oda in the SBS.. the need for the look out post and a GOOD one has been already setup multiple time in the story and FROM Luffy in chapter 304, and that without even mentionning how helpfull was the look out post in whole cake.

This couldn't be more meaningless.

Never has been a need given how the rest of the crew have effortlessly performed the task.

The sleep schedule is not evidence of anything especially since Oda isn't depicting the crew constantly being surprised attacked while most of the crew is sleeping.

Chapter 304 is actually a great example of Usopp's amazing eyesight. Its on display once again as being the best amongst the crew. He does the job of lookout effortlessly and it wasn't even his shift/duty at the time.

Luffy never expresses a need for a lookout in that chapter. He and Usopp admonishes Robin for not doing the job well and then she does. The chapter is a good example of why the position isn't a need on the crew and how anyone can do it. The only time the crew expresses a need is for a shipwright to fix the Merry.

i had this argument before.
First : Usopp is not a lookout, it's a cannonier, a sniper and a lyer. In battle on sea, Usopp has other things to do that to be in the lookout post.
Second: Eyesight is just one of the parameters for a good look out. Actuelly, the eyesight does not count, the ability to go high and fast is far better as the higher you go, the farthest you can see. Same Haki is not relevant on sea, the look-out is here to see ships movments, not people.
Third: In the non canon territory (the games) Carrot is always depicted as having a good eyesigh

I can go on.. the fact is that Carrot has been design as a look out from the start.. from her design to her personnality and this is undeniable.

I didn't say Usopp was a lookout.

I said he has better eyesight than Carrot so she isn't even the best at what she's apparently been set up to be.

You add Usopp's use of binoculars and it really does eliminate the need.

Non-canon means exactly that. It does not matter.

Also saying Carrot was created to be a lookout as if there's one design for lookouts or one personality for them and that it is undeniable is pure bullshit. You could go on but that would not change.

[Syphin]

@CarrotForNakama:

Those are not enough to be considered setups, they are hint at best and still very late into the story. A setup must be a lot clearer than that.

As for Ace retrieve, it could have been because of anything, nothings tells us that it is because of Kaido's son. So the reveletation is still a late one. And even then we can't be sure that it was Oda's intent.

Oda didn't needed to mentionned Yamato's name, just the mention of "Kaido's son" would have been enough. It did not happened until very late and that is exceptionnal by Oda's standards.

For the moment, nothing proves that Yamato was conceptionalized early.

The very existence of Ace meeting Yamato and Momonosuke learning from Yamato establishes the possibility that Oda had derived Yamato's character from the start of Wano and potentially even earlier.

With Ace's story, Oda would have scripted events out when detailing his interactions with Tama. We know Ace met Yamato when details of the event presented itself in chapter 999. Just because the reader had no idea of the specifics during that time Tama talked about Ace does not mean Oda had no idea about Yamato's relevance in the events. The fact that Oda specifically had Ace tell Tama he would return to Wano AFTER getting a bigger crew expresses that in Oda's mind he already set-up Ace and Yamato's meeting. By chapter 912, concepts of Yamato's existence was in Oda's mind. Oda intentionally held off on mentioning Yamato's name and existence because he possibly wished to first introduce Oden (a major figure in Yamato's life). By keeping the reveal for where he positioned it, Oda purposefully built up momentum for Yamato's character which worked considering the positive reception Yamato has gotten in both the manga and now the anime.

At the very least Yamato was being planned by Oda at the start of the Wano Kuni. Arguments can even be made for Oda having conceptualized Yamato much earlier through the plot thread of Momonosuke's consuming Vegapunk's Artificial Devil Fruit. Oda by starting such a story arc already knew the Artificial Devil Fruit was a copy of Kaido's and he would have already planned out Momonosuke's general story arc which includes Momonosuke learning about utilizing his Mythical Dragon form abilities as per the latest chapter (1027). The moment Oda had Momonosuke consume the Artificial Devil Fruit, how do you think he intended to have Momonosuke learn about using his Mythical Dragon abilities when he began fighting in the Wano Arc? Oda would have mapped out Momonosuke's general story arc before initiating it. During the Punk Hazard Arc Oda could have already planned to introduce a mentor for Momonosuke when he arrived in Wano. The concept of this mentor eventually turned into Yamato as Oda finalized the details of the Wano Kuni Arc. By Punk Hazard, Oda generally knew what he wanted to do with Momonosuke. Readers may argue that Yamato being so close with Momonosuke reduces his chances of joining the Straw Hat Pirates but I argue the opposite. The closer Oda links Yamato to Momonosuke, the more he expresses how much he has planned Yamato before his introduction.

Broadening ones perspective shows that Oda had ideas and concept for "Yamato's" existence for quite sometime, much earlier than when he officially revealed "Yamato's" existence.

[CarrotForNakama]

@Zik:

Not sure what you're talking about here.

The idea that Yamato will change his mind about wanting to leave Wano is baseless speculation. It doesn't mean anything.

I agree

@Zik:

Never has been a need given how the rest of the crew have effortlessly performed the task.

The rest of the crew are not look out. In a battle they have other things to do.

@Zik:

The sleep schedule is not evidence of anything especially since Oda isn't depicting the crew constantly being surprised attacked while most of the crew is sleeping.

Yes this IS an evidence. And an UNDENIABLE one.

@Zik:

Chapter 304 is actually a great example of Usopp's amazing eyesight. Its on display once again as being the best amongst the crew. He does the job of lookout effortlessly and it wasn't even his shift/duty at the time.

Liike I said, we do not care about Usopp's eyesight, Usopp is not a lookout but a sniper. And no Usopp do just the minimum requiered for the post :

• He can't have a complete sleep schedule
• He can't jump high and fast on the post, he needs to crawl to it
• He is scared most of the time

@Zik:

Luffy never expresses a need for a lookout in that chapter. He and Usopp admonishes Robin for not doing the job well and then she does. The chapter is a good example of why the position isn't a need on the crew and how anyone can do it. The only time the crew expresses a need is for a shipwright to fix the Merry.

In the story the need is not always done in an obvious manner like the Musician or the shipwright or the cook, sometimes it's done subtle. Like for Jinbe with the helm. Luffy did not expresses clearly that he wanted a look-out, but he expressed CLEARLY his NEEDS for the position and that all that matter. And no, the chapter is not a proff that anyone can do it, that's the opposite, you are being dishonnest here.

@Zik:

I didn't say Usopp was a lookout.

yup I know i'm just going ahead of the argument.. i know this will come up so I debunk it right away.

@Zik:

Also saying Carrot was created to be a lookout as if there's one design for lookouts or one personality for them and that it is undeniable is pure bullshit. You could go on but that would not change.

There IS an optimized design for the look-out post:

• Must be able to go high and fast
• If can stay in the air, that's a plus
• Must be really enjoyable about discovery (Luffy)

For that a rabbit mink amazed by everything is the PITCH PERFECT character for the look out post in term of narration.

But If you add to that the fact that the look-out is basically the person who see the world with a wide eye.. you can see how Carrot's characterisation and her non knowledge of the world fits perfectly the role. It's just a matter of narration and milking. Carrot is a look-out in her design, in her character, even in her habbits. She the is perfect look-out for Luffy. And that is undeniable i'm sorry.

@Syphin:

The very existence of Ace meeting Yamato and Momonosuke learning from Yamato establishes the possibility that Oda had derived Yamato's character from the start of Wano and potentially even earlier. […] The fact that Oda specifically had Ace tell Tama he would return to Wano AFTER getting a bigger crew expresses that in Oda's mind he already set-up Ace and Yamato's meeting. […] At the very least Yamato was being planned by Oda at the start of the Wano Kuni

it's a possibility, it's not a given. For all we know Oda could have simply made Ace go back first without even encountering kaido. We have no proof of that

@Syphin:

The moment Oda had Momonosuke consume the Artificial Devil Fruit, how do you think he intended to have Momonosuke learn about using his Mythical Dragon abilities when he began fighting in the Wano Arc?

There is a lot of possibilities. There is not just one pass to write a story.

[Kishido]

Is this AGOG?

BTW
Sulong Carrot > Yamato design wise

Yamato still is a lock join and Carrot won't join.

Both are boring

[Nidhoeggr]

I just feel like Carrot has a lot more potential for interesting arcs than Yamato, who feels confined to a certain role and interaction. I agree that both need to be flashed out more, but I have tons of trouble seeing a world where Yamato feels like a natural addition to the crew…

[CarrotForNakama]

@Kishido:

Is this AGOG?

BTW
Sulong Carrot > Yamato design wise

Yamato still is a lock join and Carrot won't join.

Both are boring

Carrot is far from boring in term of design, you wouldn't have all those fanart if that was the case.

What is Agog ?

[Kaptayn]

@Kishido:

Is this AGOG?

Both are boring

I agree. #JinbeiIsTheLastOne

@CarrotForNakama, clear something up for me. You argue that Yamato was set up late. Yet you say that Carrot wasn't because… Oda drew rabbits before?

[Coookie]

I admire how you peeps don't get tired of addressing the same arguments that are being regurgitated (and refuted) time and time again

[CarrotForNakama]

@Kaptayn:

I agree. #JinbeiIsTheLastOne

@CarrotForNakama, clear something up for me. You argue that Yamato was set up late. Yet you say that Carrot wasn't because… Oda drew rabbits before?

What are you talking about ? I have never said that. In fact Carrot was never set up in the story. It was an organic introduction discovered at the same time of a new race. This is narratively different than Yamato who was a part of a family we already knew before.

The rabbits are merely hints, not setups.

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

Carrot is far from boring in term of design

Her regular design is the definition of boring… her Sulong is not. Unfortunately her regular design will have the most screen time...

[CarrotForNakama]

The thing is.. her base form is not boring at all. From a design perspective, it's even very appealing. As I said, you wouldn't have all those fan art if it wasn't the case.

[Monquito]

Seems like this is one of those guys who thinks;

•Lookout position is not stationary(xd)
•Believes the rumor that Carrot sleeps less
•Will not address Carrot's treatment the last three years at all
•hints I like are hints, hints I don't like are "bad setup"
•Subjective opinions are not subjective if you like videogames
•Usopp has better eyesight, but denial is twice the better

:/ We were promised new things were to be put in the table..

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

The thing is.. her base form is not boring at all. From a design perspective, it's even very appealing.

This design for a possible Nakama?
There is nothing unique about her, not one special trait that makes her stand out… not even the fact that she's a rabbit is special, because we had Randolph...

@CarrotForNakama:

As I said, you wouldn't have all those fan art if it wasn't the case.

Or the people try to make a better design because it is so boring and easy to make it better…

People making fan arts is not an indication of how good a design is, not at all....

[CarrotForNakama]

@Monquito:

Seems like this is one of those guys who thinks;

•Lookout position is not stationary(xd)
•Believes the rumor that Carrot sleeps less
•Will not address Carrot's treatment the last three years at all
•hints I like are hints, hints I don't like are "bad setup"
•Subjective opinions are not subjective if you like videogames
•Usopp has better eyesight, but denial is twice the better

:/ We were promised new things were to be put in the table..

Hm.. I sence an attack here.. so..

• The look-out position is passive, so stationnary, the Recon position is not. Carrot is both.
• Carrot sleep but seems to not have sleeping problem (Kingsbird position)
• Carrot's treatment in Wano is irrelevant. The importance of a character is not defined necessaraly by it's importance in an arc. Yes Carrot was not here in Wano, but she was in whole cake. The yonko Saga is a two arc saga, not one. Keep that in mind.
• Hints are hints. Setup are setups.. If you don't know what they are I can help you
• This is irrelevant.
• You don't know that and the eyesight of Usopp is irrelevant to the current conversation.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Zhenja:

This design for a possible Nakama?
There is nothing unique about her, not one special trait that makes her stand out… not even the fact that she's a rabbit is special, because we had Randolph...

Yes there is, you just forgot it:

• Carrot is the only mink who can float in base form.
• Carrot is the only mink with a cape the opposite to her faction
• Carrot is one of the two only known mink in the Kingsbird position
• Carrot seems to be the only mink capable of jumping off building distances.

I told you, you won't get far with me.

@Zhenja:

Or the people try to make a better design because it is so boring and easy to make it better…

People making fan arts is not an indication of how good a design is, not at all....

It might be boring for you, it's not for most artist. In fact as an artist I can assure you her design is inspirationnal.

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

Yes there is, you just forgot it:

• Carrot is the only mink who can float in base form.
• Carrot is the only mink with a cape the opposite to her faction
• Carrot is one of the two only known mink in the Kingsbird position
• Carrot seems to be the only mink capable of jumping off building distances.

And not one of these points has anything to do with her design…

@CarrotForNakama:

I told you, you won't get far with me.

Yeah, I can clearly see that, since you're drifting from one topic to another to make any argument just to be right…

[CarrotForNakama]

@Zhenja:

And not one of these points has anything to do with her design…

Yes, the cape does but I was not talking only about the design

@Zhenja:

Yeah, I can clearly see that, since you're drifting from one topic to another to make any argument just to be right…

Yup

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

Yes, the cape does but I was not talking only about the design

Clothes change, not relevant when talking about design… but since you changed the subject...

I'm disappointed...

[CarrotForNakama]

@Zhenja:

Clothes change, not relevant when talking about design… but since you changed the subject...

I'm disappointed...

No. Clothing ARE part of a design. Even if they are changed later on. And this IS an important part of Carrot's design.

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

And this IS an important part of Carrot's design.

Yeah, because there is not much more….but you take what you can get, no matter how small...

[Kishido]

@Kaptayn:

I agree. #JinbeiIsTheLastOne

@CarrotForNakama, clear something up for me. You argue that Yamato was set up late. Yet you say that Carrot wasn't because… Oda drew rabbits before?

Vivi is the "last one" if Yamato won't join.

But as I addressed, I would be shocked it Yamato doesn't join

[Kaptayn]

@Kishido:

Vivi is the "last one" if Yamato won't join.

But as I addressed, I would be shocked it Yamato doesn't join

Re: Vivi - sure. I mean, I already consider her a Straw Hat, she's just not sailing with the crew at the moment.

I have mixed feelings about Yamato. The character just doesn't do anything for me. Maybe that is why I am biased and cannot see her joining the crew.

[legumes]

I'm surprised people are willing to snap at what is pretty obvious (and not subtle-at-all) bait, but hey. It's been pretty boring for some time, might as well sit back and see the agog meltdown again.

[CarrotForNakama]

@Zhenja:

Yeah, because there is not much more….but you take what you can get, no matter how small...

Because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. The beauty of Carrot's design resides in her efficacity. Color / Attitude / Clothing / Form / Lines . Much like Luffy it's all about simplicity and efficiancy.

And that is only for her base form which is basically a representation of a bright Sunny character

On the other hand, the design of Yamato - all cool it might look - doesn't ring the same bell, the color are only indicative of Oden, Yamato's hair, figure, attitude and color are not really figurative of anything but the devil fruit Yamato has.

Oh wait.. yes it is figurative.. of a protective deity lol

[Zhenja]

@CarrotForNakama:

it's all about simplicity and efficiancy.

Right, Oda didn't want to waste much time creating and drawing her, so he drew a blond bunny… and named her Carrot... such creativity...

And then we have Yamato, where he thought about colors and details...

[Robby]

Its so weird seeing a complete stranger come in here and regurgitate the EXACT same points that have been argued/debunked for years now, as if they're brand new fresh takes that no one has ever thought about before.

You can literally go back two years in this thread or the previous one and copy paste responses to every single thing being brought up, and no one would notice..

[wolfwood]

The colorful i'm at war imagery is new tho.

Never had any soldiers before as far as i can recall.

[electricmastro]

@Gol:

Fair enough! Though we've had 119 chapters of Wano in total so far, he's appeared in approximately 40% of them, and that figure will continue to increase.

The story as a whole, since we're in the last handful of years of One Piece and the crew's journey as a whole - yes, he's late to the story/journey.

Just like how Oden was to Roger's crew. He only joined them I think for the final year.

I'm not saying it in a disparaging way though - Oda's more than made up for it and I'm excited for him to be officially part of the crew.

Considering how big the Yonko crews are and even Roger's crew, if Luffy will have less than those totals, he needs to have top-level fighters. Yamato, Jinbe, Sanji, and Zoro all fit the bill.

Also interesting is that apparently, these are the characters to have the most panels in the Wano arc, including how Yamato has more Wano panels than Law, Raizo, and Denjiro, even though they were introduced before Yamato:

1. Monkey D. Luffy - 1278
2. Roronoa Zoro - 723
3. Kaido - 669
4. Kin'emon - 603
5. Sanji - 462
6. Kozuki Momonosuke - 454
7. O-Kiku - 451
8. Kozuki Oden - 450
9. Nami - 396
10. Kawamatsu - 377
11. Charlotte Linlin - 350
12. O-Tama - 347
13. Queen - 342
14. Yamato - 322
15. Trafalgar D. Water Law - 299
16. Raizo - 296
17. Nico Robin - 292
18. Denjiro - 284
19. Franky - 282
20. Tony Tony Chopper - 280

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/q3t1vc/the_top_50_most_appearing_characters_in_wano_as/

[Shiebs]

I’m surprised nobody has brought up the Marines invading Wano

Luffy promised they’d have the biggest party ever after they defeat Kaido, so I think something or someone will stop them

[Monquito]

@CarrotForNakama:

• The look-out position is passive, so stationnary, the Recon position is not. Carrot is both.

I see you keep repeating "Carrot can jump into the crow's nest like nobody else"(even tho that's debatable with Sanji around), but that's not how it works at all. the Look Out must already be there, not jump whenever he/she feels like, that's like the worst Look Out ever.

• Carrot sleep but seems to not have sleeping problem (Kingsbird position)

Nobody in the crew has them either. they just have squedchules, and like every normal person, they can stay awake all night long.

• Carrot's treatment in Wano is irrelevant. The importance of a character is not defined necessaraly by it's importance in an arc. Yes Carrot was not here in Wano, but she was in whole cake. The yonko Saga is a two arc saga, not one. Keep that in mind.

Thanks for confirming what I just said.

• You don't know that and the eyesight of Usopp is irrelevant to the current conversation.

Thanks for confirming what I just said.

---

Now that chapter's out, yuup, Yamato totally abandoned the one he was supposed to bond with xD.

lots of bombs in less than 5 minutes, sounds like a huge task to accomplish for just one single person, and the SH's aren't doing like anything too important right now, seems like this is going to be the "push the Torikago" mission this arc, some sweet interactions with the SH's are coming.

the "integrated" Carrot has never had a conversation with Robin at all, wonder if Yamato would like to talk to her, that would be one hell of an interesting conversation.

[electricmastro]

@Kaptayn:

Re: Vivi - sure. I mean, I already consider her a Straw Hat, she's just not sailing with the crew at the moment.

I have mixed feelings about Yamato. The character just doesn't do anything for me. Maybe that is why I am biased and cannot see her joining the crew.

Quite literally the ship sailed on Vivi becoming a close fully-fledged member of the crew long ago. I'm sure she'll have more time to shine when she meets back up with Luffy after Wano though, with what's happening with Im and all.

[King Cannon]

I can't help but think there's a reason Oda hasn't show Yamato's tansformations with Luffy around.

This focus is completely unreal for a "secondary character".

[Zik]

@CarrotForNakama:

The rest of the crew are not look out. In a battle they have other things to do.

In a ship battle, there's no need for a lookout.

If you expect for the crew to be taking part in a battle and Carrot to just be in the crow's nest still being a lookout that just kinda seems useless. I also don't think Oda would waste time depicting scenarios like that. It still doesn't make the role of a lookout that vital to the crew. Especially when you can substitute any other strawhat to temporarily do the task like Usopp.

Yes this IS an evidence. And an UNDENIABLE one.

No its not. Especially when according to the schedule somebody is awake at all times. You should probably better familiarize yourself with the meaning of evidence and undeniable. Putting the words in all caps do not make the statements any less wrong.

Liike I said, we do not care about Usopp's eyesight, Usopp is not a lookout but a sniper. And no Usopp do just the minimum requiered for the post :

The minimum is all that's been required in the story.

• He can't have a complete sleep schedule*

This sentence does not make sense.

• He can't jump high and fast on the post, he needs to crawl to it

So?

Are you under the assumption that lookouts are suppose to be able to jump high and fast?

• He is scared most of the time

Still hasn't stopped him from being on lookout duty in the past. If anything it's because he's scared a lot that Usopp is always on alert and is always looking out for potential danger. He basically has a 6th sense to things he's scared of.

In the story the need is not always done in an obvious manner like the Musician or the shipwright or the cook, sometimes it's done subtle.

Musician was never a need. Luffy always wanted a musician to sing songs and during parties. That's why the strawhats have one. No other reason. Before Brook joined the crew managed pretty well during post arc parties.

Cook and shipwright were needs. Not just cuz Luffy is a glutton but also cuz the entire crew needs to eat and remain healthy. Helps avoid stuff like scurvy.

Shipwright is just self explanatory. Oda gave the crew a great navigator right away so he spent most of the story showing the need for a shipwright.

Like for Jinbe with the helm. Luffy did not expresses clearly that he wanted a look-out, but he expressed CLEARLY his NEEDS for the position and that all that matter. And no, the chapter is not a proff that anyone can do it, that's the opposite, you are being dishonnest here.

Ida never showed that a helmsman was needed. The crew managed the Grandline's unpredictable weather quite well with the likes of Chopper, Sanji, Zoro, Luffy, and Franky all doing the job. What Oda did do was show how useful a skilled helmsman can be during that one time while they escaped whole cake island. It was shown before during Impel Down but it really wasn't focused on a great deal.

The chapter has Usopp and Robin doing what a lookout does. The dialogue establishes the rest of the crew basically takes turn doing it. That Robin was currently doing it and then got admonished and corrected is proof enough anyone can do it. That's not dishonest, thats just what happened.

yup I know i'm just going ahead of the argument.. i know this will come up so I debunk it right away.

Well this is just dumb as fuck.

Reply to what I actually post. Not what you think someone might say.

I'll probably just have to ignore you if this is something you prefer to do instead of actually addressing what was said.

There IS an optimized design for the look-out post:

• Must be able to go high and fast
• If can stay in the air, that's a plus
• Must be really enjoyable about discovery (Luffy)

This is all made up. Especially the go high and fast. The crow's nest exists specifically for the lookout. They're not required to jump high in order to do the job.

It's also not an "optimized design".

What you're talking about are qualifications and requirements.

For that a rabbit mink amazed by everything is the PITCH PERFECT character for the look out post in term of narration.

This is a very subjective opinion based on a definition of the role of lookout you made up.

But If you add to that the fact that the look-out is basically the person who see the world with a wide eye.. you can see how Carrot's characterisation and her non knowledge of the world fits perfectly the role. It's just a matter of narration and milking. Carrot is a look-out in her design, in her character, even in her habbits. She the is perfect look-out for Luffy. And that is undeniable i'm sorry.

Carrot's ignorance is not a good thing or a bonus to why she would be a good lookout.

I can also see now you just like using the word undeniable to underline your opinions. Not facts so I see now why you keep using the word incorrectly.
@Kishido:

Is this AGOG?

If it is she sure picked the wrong horse to back.

Both are boring

Half right

I find Jimbe more boring than any member/potential strawhat and he's already in.
@Nidhoeggr:

I just feel like Carrot has a lot more potential for interesting arcs than Yamato, who feels confined to a certain role and interaction. I agree that both need to be flashed out more, but I have tons of trouble seeing a world where Yamato feels like a natural addition to the crew…

Thats okay but it kinda seems like the reason you think Carrot has more potential is cuz Oda has done so little with exploring the character, has established her as a very naive and green character.

Meanwhile, Yamato may have some similarities is experienced enough in hard hopeless situations not to be so gullible.

As far as the hard time you may have just gonna have to find a way to deal with that.

[astagadragon]

I can totally see Yamato meeting some of the Straw Hats that are running around the place and give them a purpose to defuse the bombs. She met Franky before, so he is a start point. Better than them running around without purpose v3.0 right…

As for invading Marines, ehh I can see them getting stalled by Big Mom's kids, then they're getting steamrolled by SSG, forcing Mom to save her kids. Or if she doesnt get pwned by Law and Kid already...

[electricmastro]

@King:

I can't help but think there's a reason Oda hasn't show Yamato's tansformations with Luffy around.

This focus is completely unreal for a "secondary character".

I suppose it's once again to keep people guessing. He had Franky reveal his cyborg abilities to Luffy at Water 7, but didn't get amazed since he was too focused on being angry at him for what happened with Usopp for example, even though he had Luffy amazed at every other cyborg enhancement. Having him go "Oh man, you're an interested creature. You gotta join!" would sound too obvious for this. lol

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@astagadragon:

I can totally see Yamato meeting some of the Straw Hats that are running around the place and give them a purpose to defuse the bombs. She met Franky before, so he is a start point. Better than them running around without purpose v3.0 right…

As for invading Marines, ehh I can see them getting stalled by Big Mom's kids, then they're getting steamrolled by SSG, forcing Mom to save her kids. Or if she doesnt get pwned by Law and Kid already...

Yep, with Yamato and the Straw Hats running around in the dome, it's probably about time she meets up with the rest of them.

[astagadragon]

Just gonna put this here

Pretty irrelevant character to appears alongside Luffy (again) on official merchandise huh

[Shiebs]

I can’t wait to see Luffy’s reaction to Yamato’s hybrid and animal form, there must be a reason Oda has made it so Luffy only appears when he’s in his regular form, there’s a moment being built to there and I can’t wait to see it

[electricmastro]

@astagadragon:

https://i.ibb.co/WKjx3SS/20211011-101429.jpg
Just gonna put this here

Pretty irrelevant character to appears alongside Luffy (again) on official merchandise huh

Hmm

https://one-piece.com/news/detail/20211011_13161

[Shift]

@astagadragon:

[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/WKjx3SS/20211011-101429.jpg[/qimg]
Just gonna put this here

Pretty irrelevant character to appears alongside Luffy (again) on official merchandise huh

And again, being relevant and joining the crew are not the same thing. But I will say, it's a nice bag and a nice feather in Yamato's cap.

[CarrotForNakama]

@Monquito:

I see you keep repeating "Carrot can jump into the crow's nest like nobody else"(even tho that's debatable with Sanji around), but that's not how it works at all. the Look Out must already be there, not jump whenever he/she feels like, that's like the worst Look Out ever.

if you keep bringing others strawhats into the discussion when you know full well that it is irrelevant to the discussion, we are gonna have some problem.. Pretty much all the strawhat can do what the other does.. what matter is what each of them can do in a SPECIFIC situation like:

• A tornado approaching
• A sudden pinch from all side
• The need to aim far and fast
• Cooking for life
  Etc..

You know full well that a look out (on the Sunny in One Piece) will not be all the time to the post, sometime, they will be shenaniganing with the strawhats, so the argument "they must stay always there" is dishonest. In fact you can see that in the story when Carrot feel the need to look-out.

@Monquito:

Nobody in the crew has them either. they just have squedchules, and like every normal person, they can stay awake all night long.

Oda has stated that the strawhats lack sleep because of the post. Therefore being able to stay awake will bring their energy down. I'm not the one saying this, Oda is.

@Monquito:

Thanks for confirming what I just said.

I'm not confirming your arguments, i'm debunking them.

@Robby:

Its so weird seeing a complete stranger come in here and regurgitate the EXACT same points that have been argued/debunked for years now, as if they're brand new fresh takes that no one has ever thought about before.

You can literally go back two years in this thread or the previous one and copy paste responses to every single thing being brought up, and no one would notice..

None of the point against Carrot have been debunked, what is your universe ?

@Zhenja:

Right, Oda didn't want to waste much time creating and drawing her, so he drew a blond bunny… and named her Carrot... such creativity...

And then we have Yamato, where he thought about colors and details...

Details does not make up for a good design.. the is in fact the opposite.. Yamao's design is pretty meh in comparizon to the efficiancy of Carrot's one. Too much detail kills a design. It's cool, but that's just it.

@King:

I can't help but think there's a reason Oda hasn't show Yamato's tansformations with Luffy around.

This focus is completely unreal for a "secondary character".

It's because Yamato is an "arc character"..so her focus is the same as someone like Kyros or Rebecca.

@Zik:

In a ship battle, there's no need for a lookout.

Wrong, and for you to understand that, you should play some sea of thieve. Having a Lookout at all time during a warship is essential, as the crew needs to know the position of the ennemy at all time.

@Zik:

If you expect for the crew to be taking part in a battle and Carrot to just be in the crow's nest still being a lookout that just kinda seems useless.

I don't "expect it, it has already happened. Carrot being at the crows nest was the sole reason the crew made it to Cacao Island. The thing is, from her crow's next and if the Sulong is possible (what I call a specific situation) then she is able to jump from her post directly into the battle. That's what makes her post so cool.

@Zik:

I also don't think Oda would waste time depicting scenarios like that.

He already has >> whole cake

@Zik:

It still doesn't make the role of a lookout that vital to the crew.

It does, without Carrot, the crew would have gone down.

@Zik:

Especially when you can substitute any other strawhat to temporarily do the task like Usopp.

They have others things to do.

@Zik:

No its not. Especially when according to the schedule somebody is awake at all times. You should probably better familiarize yourself with the meaning of evidence and undeniable. Putting the words in all caps do not make the statements any less wrong.

Oh yes it is. The comment of Oda on the SBS is exactly that : UNDENIABLE. (in all caps)

@Zik:

Are you under the assumption that lookouts are suppose to be able to jump high and fast?

yes, if you want to be the best look out possible.

@Zik:

Still hasn't stopped him from being on lookout duty in the past. If anything it's because he's scared a lot that Usopp is always on alert and is always looking out for potential danger. He basically has a 6th sense to things he's scared of.

Rabbits are by ESSENCE always looking for predator, that's why they have a weird sleeping schedule and that they never sleeps entirerely. Usopp is just scared.

@Zik:

Musician was never a need.

Oh yes it was, for Luffy. he expressed that need multiple time.

@Zik:

Cook and shipwright were needs. Not just cuz Luffy is a glutton but also cuz the entire crew needs to eat and remain healthy. Helps avoid stuff like scurvy.

Shipwright is just self explanatory. Oda gave the crew a great navigator right away so he spent most of the story showing the need for a shipwright.

Yup, my point.

@Zik:

Ida never showed that a helmsman was needed.

Yes, it did but very subtly. You can see that around chapter 826 I think. Brook and Luffy and Nami are ""arguing"" on who should take the helm and the fact that Luffy was doing a poor job at it. This need doesn't need to be obvious, it can be very.. very subtle, but it's always pretty much there. This is one of the pattern for each mugiwara, sometime Oda even take a bit of time to focus on the impossibility of a crewmate to do the job and make another crewmate do it (brook in that example)

@Zik:

The crew managed the Grandline's unpredictable weather quite well with the likes of Chopper, Sanji, Zoro, Luffy, and Franky all doing the job. What Oda did do was show how useful a skilled helmsman can be during that one time while they escaped whole cake island. It was shown before during Impel Down but it really wasn't focused on a great deal.

Until a very SPECIFIC situation where no one was able to make a move to the helm. That's where Oda choosed to make Jinbe take responsibilities by entering the green Room. And that's my point, each job can be fullfill by another UNTIL a very specific situation where the role must go to the one crewmate who has capacity to act with the most efficiancy. That's when Oda made Jinbe's shine and this is also when he choosed to make Carrot shine.

Observe that those

are depicted in the SAME Volume. You can even check the side of the volume, it's Jinbe and Carrot. That's because those two protagonist are two side of the same coin. They are complementary, like the Sun and the moon.

@Zik:

The chapter has Usopp and Robin doing what a lookout does. The dialogue establishes the rest of the crew basically takes turn doing it. That Robin was currently doing it and then got admonished and corrected is proof enough anyone can do it. That's not dishonest, thats just what happened.

Poorly, Usopp has to crawl to the nest, and Robin is doing a poor job.

@Zik:

Well this is just dumb as fuck.

Reply to what I actually post. Not what you think someone might say.

No, I do this by experience, to prevent some unecessary replies. I've gone through those argument more time that I can count, I prefer to make them go faster because I know for a fact the argument that will follow. It's not rocket science.

@Zik:

This is all made up. Especially the go high and fast. The crow's nest exists specifically for the lookout. They're not required to jump high in order to do the job.

See, that the type of reply that people make when I make narrative arguments. They can't understand them .. so "it's all made up"

The thing is, this is what authors call

this is not "made up" this is an actual storytelling technic. Oda - for example - will push EVERY paramater of a design to fit a position. For example, Franky can be seen as creative and capable at first sight! His post is litterally reflected by his posture, his design, his manner, his color and his story.. That's the power of milking. It enhance the power of a message through narrative and visual clews.

so..

@Zik:

It's also not an "optimized design".

…. The optimized design of Carrot is no different ! From her design (a rabbit who can jump fast) to her posture, someone who look at the world like a wonderland, Oda made Carrot as the perfect look out for Luffy, in his words (Oda - on the design of Carrot): "Carrot had to be first jovial"

Carrot is Alice in wonderland, she the one who discovers, who watchs, who experiences.

@Zik:

This is a very subjective opinion based on a definition of the role of lookout you made up.

This is not a subjective opinion, this is a litteral storytelling analysis, a real one, from the visual to the writings.

@Zik:

Carrot's ignorance is not a good thing or a bonus to why she would be a good lookout.

Oh yes it is. There is no better look out for Luffy than someone who is excited by each discovery.

@Zik:

I can also see now you just like using the word undeniable to underline your opinions. Not facts so I see now why you keep using the word incorrectly.

Narration is inevitable, undeniable.. You can argue against it for a while, but it will show you that you are wrong in the long run.. And narration, might it be visual or litteral, is on the side of Carrot, not smoker, not Yamato, not Law… Carrot.

[Robby]

Wow, that certainly is a post.

[BobLoblaw]

@electricmastro:

Hmm

https://i.ibb.co/84ZWcz4/Screen-Shot-2021-10-10-at-11-56-32-PM.png

https://one-piece.com/news/detail/20211011_13161

Buy popular character merch please. Thanks.