Folks, quit biting on the obvious bait. Just ignore it and it'll go away.
Reacting just encourages it.
If you have an actual discussion or points to make, do that, but don't… do what you're doing.
Thanks. Helps makes more conversations a little more approachable when there are less people constantly making sarcastic jokes towards any point brought up, whether in agreement or not.
Thanks. Helps makes more conversations a little more approachable when there are less people constantly making sarcastic jokes towards any point brought up, whether in agreement or not.
Yes wouldn't want to endanger the sanctity of the new best girl thread
Yes wouldn't want to endanger the sanctity of the new best girl thread
Exactly, let's all be nice, for the sake of Carrot
I don't want to ignore Yamato, it's a cool character anyway.. She is just irrelevent when we talk about integration to the strawhats, that's all
Who's more irrelevant…
A character that only appears in 3 small panels over 3 chapters with one liners...
Or
A characters that appears and has long dialogues in 3 chapters and more...
I'm not saying names as not to be toxic, it's the rule around here right?
"No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.." - Venat
Who's more irrelevant…
A character that only appears in 3 small panels over 3 chapters with one liners...
Or
A characters that appears and has long dialogues in 3 chapters and more...
I'm not saying names as not to be toxic, it's the rule around here right?
Fun fact: Importance (meaning relevancy of character on the overall story) of a character in One Piece does not relate in any way to the number of panel time or Dialogue.
And Vegapunk reveals the efforts of his genius. A creation so powerful, it transcends the capabilities of the Ancient Weapons.
Introducing - the storm about to create waves over the seas. The gust ready to sweep all off their feet into a new age of freedom. The phenomenon beckoning all to come together under its relation of joy, harmony and imagination…
...the future of the world has been born and the savior of it shall be - the virtual idol Vee-chan. Or should we go with Punk-chan for more edge?
Punk-chan shall end the age of Piracy and bring forward a new age of...Passion.
The Straw Hat Pirates will help Vegapunk save Punk-chan and she will become the new member of the Straw Hat Pirates.
When the crew reach Laugh Tale, it will be revealed that the One Piece is a musical record the genius musician Joy Boy created 900 hundred of years ago. He was not able to share such profoundness with the world during that time but the age now calls for such a miracle to rise. Punk-chan x Soul King Brook will bring about a world of One Peace. Barriers of indifference will dissipate and hands of unity will join together under the common love of the age of passion. The Tenryuubito will come face to face with their actions and realise the error of their ways. They will use all resources at their disposal to connect the world with Punk-chan. During the worldwide concert, Punk-chan will don a pirate cosplay and wear an eye-patch. Jinbe's dream of bringing about a connected world under the Sun will result and Luffy will have a party with the whole world.
! The future that exist presently:
!
!
!
The end.
Oda: "This is the end I planned since conception. May we all exist in One Peace.
…Also Punk-chan's new album - One Peace - will be dropping next week Wednesday, so please consider supporting her dream and passion. A collaboration with Hatsune Miku is also planned. Thank you everyone!"
The age of passion is upon us :ninja:.
Its a good thing this thread is about the next crewmate of the strawhats and not characters with little to no dialogue or appearances and their relevancy to the overall story.
Who's more irrelevant…
A character that only appears in 3 small panels over 3 chapters with one liners...
Or
A characters that appears and has long dialogues in 3 chapters and more...
I'm not saying names as not to be toxic, it's the rule around here right?
Honestly, Yamato has felt like she has had more teamwork with Luffy at Wano than with Carrot. After what happened with Jack and Perospero, I suppose it could feel less linked.
@Gol:
Yeah. I also love the idea that the crew will potentially be leaving Wano with two members. One veteran and one "rookie" haha
To be honest, I had concerns when Yamato went with Momo but that's more of what meaning you attribute to that(subjective); what only matters is Oda's intent and he had Yamato say twice that he wants to sail with Luffy.
Edit:
Has Jimbei's dream ever been explicitly stated? Has he ever said it on-panel or just implied since it was Otohime and Tiger
I don't think so, but I never paid much attention to Jinbei in the first place. At least I don't think he's had any big moment declaring "this is my dream" like the other Strawhats.
If there's any Jinbei fans in the thread please correct me if I'm wrong.
@Zar:
I don't think so, but I never paid much attention to Jinbei in the first place. At least I don't think he's had any big moment declaring "this is my dream" like the other Strawhats.
If there's any Jinbei fans in the thread please correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably the closest Impel Down got to touching on Jinbe's fishman equality dream was him talking about fishmen and merfolk being captured and sold off at Fishman Island, followed by recognizing Whitebeard as a hero despite being unsure of humans in the first place. Even though Luffy didn't see him as a friend at the time, I think they worked rather well as a team from the start.
@Zar:
I don't think so, but I never paid much attention to Jinbei in the first place. At least I don't think he's had any big moment declaring "this is my dream" like the other Strawhats.
If there's any Jinbei fans in the thread please correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem is that we are mostly focusing on the dream, in other words the desire, and we do not focus enough on the need. Each strawhats has one or more needs. That where their dreams comes from.
For Jinbe there it was multiple:
Jinbe needed to let go of his responsibilities and need more than anything else to honor his queen's dream, which is to make the world of fishmen a better place, in peace with humanity. More than a dream, Jinbe is driven by his respect for his peers.
Look for that, and you might stubble upon the next strawhat.
Probably the closest Impel Down got to touching on Jinbe's fishman equality dream was him talking about fishmen and merfolk being captured and sold off at Fishman Island, followed by recognizing Whitebeard as a hero despite being unsure of humans in the first place. Even though Luffy didn't see him as a friend at the time, I think they worked rather well as a team from the start.
In hindsight, Jinbe's introduction and how he was built up as a crewmate remains to be the outlier - met Luffy at a time he was separated from everyone and his delayed recruitment. Overall, a good fit for the crew.
About time they got a serious character hehe. Can't wait for Yamato to join and add another quirky personality to the cast.
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but there's something I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on regarding Yamato. It's obviously noteworthy that Luffy gave Yamato a nickname, and many people have pointed out that this is bad sign for Yamato's chances of joining the crew. However, his use of a nickname for Yamato is remarkable to me for a few reasons:
My question is: is Luffy's use of a nickname a symptom of an unresolved plot thread, and if so how do you guys think this will be resolved? Yamato reacted to hearing the nickname by attempting to correct Luffy, which is itself a very rare occurrence within the series (only Cavendish comes to mind, I'd be curious to hear other examples). Oda choosing to have Yamato attempt to correct Luffy mid-battle sets up the expectation that Luffy will use the name eventually, though it could also be to reinforce the idea that Yamato still believes himself to be Yamato (he could have said "I am Oden!", but he said "Ya-ma-to!"). As an example of a possible unresolved plot thread, Luffy's making a nickname inconsistent with all his past creations could be a symptom of his confusion at seeing Yamato call himself Oden. This would mean that Oda is signaling us that Luffy will stop using the nickname Yamao when Yamato stops calling himself Oden.
@Gol:
In hindsight, Jinbe's introduction and how he was built up as a crewmate remains to be the outlier - met Luffy at a time he was separated from everyone and his delayed recruitment. Overall, a good fit for the crew.
About time they got a serious character hehe. Can't wait for Yamato to join and add another quirky personality to the cast.
Speaking of which, I suppose if it can be compared, then Yamato holding back Kaido from hurting anyone else beyond Kinemon while Luffy and Zoro were down was pretty sweet.
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but there's something I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on regarding Yamato. It's obviously noteworthy that Luffy gave Yamato a nickname, and many people have pointed out that this is bad sign for Yamato's chances of joining the crew. However, his use of a nickname for Yamato is remarkable to me for a few reasons:
[…]
his past creations could be a symptom of his confusion at seeing Yamato call himself Oden. This would mean that Oda is signaling us that Luffy will stop using the nickname Yamao when Yamato stops calling himself Oden.
Careful, Law is not considered a Nakama by Luffy, but a friend, those are different (for example, it's the same for Momo)
It's indeed a bad sign for Yamato, it's a sign of disinterest and lack of full respect.
On the other hand, This is not a bad way to think about it.
"To be Oden" most likely means to be without fear and free.. Luffy could be using the name Yamato or even Oden if Yamato really start to make a difference noted by Luffy.
People overthink the whole nickname thing, Luffy calls Law by a nickname even though he wants him to join but called Kiku by their name even though they were never really friends or spent much time together, and its like everyone has forgotten that Luffy only started to call Chopper by his name AFTER he joined
Careful, Law is not considered a Nakama by Luffy, but a friend, those are different (for example, it's the same for Momo)
He says "コイツはおれの仲間になったんだ！！", which is literally "This guy became my crewmate!!". The connotation of crewmate is why Law objects, he wouldn't object if he just called him a friend.
People overthink the whole nickname thing
Fair, but Oda knows that people think about these things, so I do get the feeling he's playing a game with it. I find it interesting to try and consider reasons for why Oda would choose to have Luffy make such a unique nickname, and whether Luffy will change for a specific reason, or whether he'll do what he typically does and just learn it after some practice.
People just use it as it fits their point of view, that's all. They don't want to acknowledge any possibility that might hurt their opinion…
So I'm just gonna do the same and twist and turn it the way I like it....
Carrot is such a boring character, with such a simple name that Luffy can't even come up with a funny or interesting nickname for her... there is nothing rememberable about her no special or unique trait, nothing... that's why Luffy has no other choice but to call her by her real name... :ninja:
Speaking of which, I suppose if it can be compared, then Yamato holding back Kaido from hurting anyone else beyond Kinemon while Luffy and Zoro were down was pretty sweet.
Hmmmm if you're referring to how it's a different set-up from the others, yes hehe. Showcase that this upcoming crewmate is a powerful one hehe. I'm super excited once the crew members see firsthand how strong Yamato is. How the weakling trio will feel safer with the Monster trio plus Jinbe and Yamato being part of the crew.
I'm all in with Yamato joining as I've mentioned but I am keeping my mind open to disappointment if Oda decides to have Momo and Yamato as leaders of Wano to the dawn. Parallel sons of Kaido and Oden as champions of Wano. I hope that's not the case at all because it'll be weird that after the exposition Yamato got, he'll be left behind. He may have been late to the whole saga but from the time he was introduced, he's been a consistent presence.
He says "コイツはおれの仲間になったんだ！！", which is literally "This guy became my crewmate!!". The connotation of crewmate is why Law objects, he wouldn't object if he just called him a friend.
https://i.imgur.com/FhqfePU.png
Hm weird I got "compagnon" in google trad, which would be much more logical in that context. Luffy is basically saying "what are you doing, that guy is my friend", mentionning that law become his crewmate in that situation does not make any sence. But granted, I'm not japanese, I'm just following the french translation.
My guess is that he will start calling her by her name when her identity crisis is solved
@Gol:
He may have been late to the whole saga but from the time he was introduced, he's been a consistent presence.
Can we really say Yamato was introduced too late at this point? It has been over a year since she was introduced and Wano is still going.
My guess is that he will start calling her by her name when her identity crisis is solved
What have we seen so far that would make you believe that 1) Yamato sees it as an "identity crisis" and 2) is trying to "get over it"? Just a few chapters ago in the flashback, we saw that Yamato has been identifying as Oden since childhood. As of now, some 50+ chapters after being introduced, there hasn't been a single instance that I can think of where Yamato questioned the Oden identity thing. The closest we got was "My other name is Yamato," but even then it was more of an "I'm Oden and Yamato."
Can we really say Yamato was introduced too late at this point? It has been over a year since she was introduced and Wano is still going.
The problem is not Yamato's introduction in fact her introduction is spot on. No. The problem is the setup.
The setup for the introduction of Yamato preceeds her introduction by just a few chapters. It's not enough by Oda's standards. In fact this is quite exceptionnal with him.
Most of the time those major revelations are setup HUNDREDS of chapters in advance. For example, the Sulong was setup 80 ich chapters before the actual revelation and their was a reminder (a second setup to refresh the readers mind) 5 chapters in.
For such a revelation (Kaido's son), the minimum requirement (by Oda standards) would be around chapter 820 when he had an opening with Kaido's dialogue on Kid's body, but he did nothing. He had a second opening before Wano, and multiple during Wano.
A setup this late in the story ("where is my son") is very …very strange. This make Yamato appears as a late revelation, an addon.
It could have multiple reasons:
I'm leaning toward the third case, Oda had to come up with a way to stall Kaido/Tease Luffy's dream/help Momo.. and I think Yamato was the perfect way to do that.
Luffy will start calling him by his name once he sees his hybrid and full mythological zoan forms.
To make you understand how far can go Oda with the teases.
What have we seen so far that would make you believe that 1) Yamato sees it as an "identity crisis" and 2) is trying to "get over it"? Just a few chapters ago in the flashback, we saw that Yamato has been identifying as Oden since childhood. As of now, some 50+ chapters after being introduced, there hasn't been a single instance that I can think of where Yamato questioned the Oden identity thing. The closest we got was "My other name is Yamato," but even then it was more of an "I'm Oden and Yamato."
Yamato doesnt see it as an identity crisis but it most certainly is one, and its very unlikely that something like that would persist in a story where individuality is so important and with a character that is so central and now very beloved, this development is inevitable. In the latest chapters it was even reinforced that its all an internalized issue that she has based on how Kaido raised her as the Oni princess, someone that should never interact with humans and should only subjugate them and do as Kaido tells her, and "becoming Oden" seems to be her way to get around that, and goes in hand with how she said Luffy was "more Oden than her" because he was beloved and free
To make you understand how far can go Oda with the teases.
How about Ace's Vivre Card in Alabasta?
How about Ace's Vivre Card in Alabasta?
Yes, this is one example of a great setup. And that's why I think Yamato is more of a late addition rather than a enormous error of setup, Oda has always been excellent with setup.
Of course it happens that he make 'controlled" mistakes but that's for the little stuff, like the magic serum of the mink which has never been setup.. But Yamato nah..
Yamato doesnt see it as an identity crisis but it most certainly is one, and its very unlikely that something like that would persist in a story where individuality is so important and with a character that is so central and now very beloved, this development is inevitable. In the latest chapters it was even reinforced that its all an internalized issue that she has based on how Kaido raised her as the Oni princess, someone that should never interact with humans and should only subjugate them and do as Kaido tells her, and "becoming Oden" seems to be her way to get around that, and goes in hand with how she said Luffy was "more Oden than her" because he was beloved and free
It's not really an identity crisis just because people feel that it's one. Identifying as Oden is something that Yamato has done for 20 years. In our limited time with the character, there haven't been any instances where Yamato has second guessed or doubted anything about why he/she identifies as Oden. There's no internal struggle or dilemma at all. At this point, it's like Sanji and his treatment/idealization of women. It's something ingrained in the character where you can't separate the character from the trait.
It's not really an identity crisis just because people feel that it's one. Identifying as Oden is something that Yamato has done for 20 years. In our limited time with the character, there haven't been any instances where Yamato has second guessed or doubted anything about why he/she identifies as Oden. There's no internal struggle or dilemma at all. At this point, it's like Sanji and his treatment/idealization of women. It's something ingrained in the character where you can't separate the character from the trait.
What? Its an identity crisis by the very nature of her trying to literally become another person, going as far as calling Momo her son, its not my personal opinion of the character thats literally an identity crisis, every time she mentions it people get weirded out because its supposed to be bizarre, and her doing it since she was a child doesnt make it less of a problem at all, if anything it makes it worse since it was born from the naive, impressionable and traumatized mind of a child, and it was very much brought up as a dilemma through Kaido narrating her whole life of being lonely and being raised by a demon to become a demon as well. Like you mentioned, im her introduction to Momo she said "I introduced myself as Oden but my other name is Yamato" and when she was a child afraid of the samurai she said "I'm Oden BUT I'm also Kaido's son" so these are very much 2 different things, and more than once she said that she has to do X or Y or else "I cant be Oden", theres the actual Yamato and there is this desire(Not even a persona) to become Oden its all a potential escapism from her true nature as the Oni princess, and she keeps creating goals for herself all in order to become what she perceives as being Oden. This definitely has to go away eventually and probably will, given the nature of this series
What have we seen so far that would make you believe that 1) Yamato sees it as an "identity crisis" and 2) is trying to "get over it"? Just a few chapters ago in the flashback, we saw that Yamato has been identifying as Oden since childhood. As of now, some 50+ chapters after being introduced, there hasn't been a single instance that I can think of where Yamato questioned the Oden identity thing. The closest we got was "My other name is Yamato," but even then it was more of an "I'm Oden and Yamato."
Yes, this is one example of a great setup. And that's why I think Yamato is more of a late addition rather than a enormous error of setup, Oda has always been excellent with setup.
Of course it happens that he make 'controlled" mistakes but that's for the little stuff, like the magic serum of the mink which has never been setup.. But Yamato nah..
You didnt even elaborate how that makes you think Yamato is late addition, even tho you admit that's agreat setup.
You didnt even elaborate how that makes you think Yamato is late addition, even tho you admit that's agreat setup.
I think he didn't make the connection that Yamato made the Vivre Card for Ace… he might have meant the Vivre Cards in general...
But to be fair, can't really call that a setup, anyone could have made it...
Neither are the bunnies a setup, just some random bunnies...
I like Trafalgar Law’s original pre timeskip hat better than his post timeskip one, I just thought that needed to be said
What? Its an identity crisis by the very nature of her trying to literally become another person, going as far as calling Momo her son, its not my personal opinion of the character thats literally an identity crisis, every time she mentions it people get weirded out because its supposed to be bizarre, and her doing it since she was a child doesnt make it less of a problem at all, if anything it makes it worse since it was born from the naive, impressionable and traumatized mind of a child, and it was very much brought up as a dilemma through Kaido narrating her whole life of being lonely and being raised by a demon to become a demon as well. Like you mentioned, im her introduction to Momo she said "I introduced myself as Oden but my other name is Yamato" and when she was a child afraid of the samurai she said "I'm Oden BUT I'm also Kaido's son" so these are very much 2 different things, and more than once she said that she has to do X or Y or else "I cant be Oden", theres the actual Yamato and there is this desire(Not even a persona) to become Oden its all a potential escapism from her true nature as the Oni princess, and she keeps creating goals for herself all in order to become what she perceives as being Oden. This definitely has to go away eventually and probably will, given the nature of this series
"An identity crisis is a developmental event that involves a person questioning their sense of self or place in the world." That's the definition. Yamato isn't currently internalizing some struggle or questioning who he/she is. Yamato knows that he/she is the son/daughter or Kaido and was born with the name Yamato, but still chooses to identify as Oden. The character isn't seeking some sort of absolution or reconciliation about how to identify. That's readers assuming that something's wrong with the character. It's reader who are wanting the character to "drop the Oden act."
If Yamato spent the rest of the series being Oden, then that would be perfectly fine. If Yamato chooses to question his/her identify and stop being Oden, then that would be fine as well. We haven't seen anything so far that indicates some pressing need by the character to stop doing what he/she has been doing for 20 years. It mostly seems to be readers projecting what they want to happen for other reasons.
Can we really say Yamato was introduced too late at this point? It has been over a year since she was introduced and Wano is still going.
Fair enough! Though we've had 119 chapters of Wano in total so far, he's appeared in approximately 40% of them, and that figure will continue to increase.
The story as a whole, since we're in the last handful of years of One Piece and the crew's journey as a whole - yes, he's late to the story/journey.
Just like how Oden was to Roger's crew. He only joined them I think for the final year.
I'm not saying it in a disparaging way though - Oda's more than made up for it and I'm excited for him to be officially part of the crew.
Considering how big the Yonko crews are and even Roger's crew, if Luffy will have less than those totals, he needs to have top-level fighters. Yamato, Jinbe, Sanji, and Zoro all fit the bill.
"An identity crisis is a developmental event that involves a person questioning their sense of self or place in the world." That's the definition. Yamato isn't currently internalizing some struggle or questioning who he/she is. Yamato knows that he/she is the son/daughter or Kaido and was born with the name Yamato, but still chooses to identify as Oden. The character isn't seeking some sort of absolution or reconciliation about how to identify. That's readers assuming that something's wrong with the character. It's reader who are wanting the character to "drop the Oden act."
If Yamato spent the rest of the series being Oden, then that would be perfectly fine. If Yamato chooses to question his/her identify and stop being Oden, then that would be fine as well. We haven't seen anything so far that indicates some pressing need by the character to stop doing what he/she has been doing for 20 years. It mostly seems to be readers projecting what they want to happen for other reasons.
And in your opinion trying to literally become another person isnt questioning your self place??? When she literally says that she had to take that burden because everyone else that could was dead as far as he knew? Even when she constantly goes om tangents like "I have to break free because I'm Oden/I have to defeat Kaido because I'm Oden/It should be ok to protect Momo because he is my son" as if she had to constantly create arbitrary goalposts and roles to play for herself so she can be what Oden is suposed to be, instead it coming naturally to her? not to mention how she goes back and forth with "I an Oden" and "I have to be Oden/I cant be Oden unless.." ? To each their own interpretation I guess, but to me its very clear that she internalized Kaido's view about onis and belives that she can only have such a great life by literally becoming another person, and thats one of the reasons why Oda is setting up Momo to emulate the hour of legends by lifting Onigashima, because thats the moment Oden became the hero of Wano and the moment she fell for him, and with that+his appearance and lineage Momo will become more Oden than she could ever hope to be, and her final development will go from there
What? Its an identity crisis by the very nature of her trying to literally become another person, going as far as calling Momo her son, its not my personal opinion of the character thats literally an identity crisis, every time she mentions it people get weirded out because its supposed to be bizarre, and her doing it since she was a child doesnt make it less of a problem at all, if anything it makes it worse since it was born from the naive, impressionable and traumatized mind of a child, and it was very much brought up as a dilemma through Kaido narrating her whole life of being lonely and being raised by a demon to become a demon as well. Like you mentioned, im her introduction to Momo she said "I introduced myself as Oden but my other name is Yamato" and when she was a child afraid of the samurai she said "I'm Oden BUT I'm also Kaido's son" so these are very much 2 different things, and more than once she said that she has to do X or Y or else "I cant be Oden", theres the actual Yamato and there is this desire(Not even a persona) to become Oden its all a potential escapism from her true nature as the Oni princess, and she keeps creating goals for herself all in order to become what she perceives as being Oden. This definitely has to go away eventually and probably will, given the nature of this series
There really isn't any crisis.
Yamato's just taken admiration and idolization to another level.
This notion that there is a true nature of Yamato as the one princess is something you made up. Also there is no instance of her constantly making goals to.become Oden. Yamato wants to be Oden so he does what he thinks and believes what Oden would do. They aren't notches or benchmarks to becoming Oden.
@Zik:
There really isn't any crisis.
Yamato's just taken admiration and idolization to another level.
This notion that there is a true nature of Yamato as the one princess is something you made up. Also there is no instance of her constantly making goals to.become Oden. Yamato wants to be Oden so he does what he thinks and believes what Oden would do. They aren't notches or benchmarks to becoming Oden.
Its idolization taken to another level, yes, but thats not the root or the whole story behind it imo, we have seen many cases of extreme idolization in one piece but nothing like her and Kaido's explanation of her past points towards that. And how am I making stuff up? Isnt she the child of Kaido? the one that was raised in onigashima all alone? thats not the same as the person that she wants to become i.e Oden. Also they are indeed benchmarks, she even asked Luffy if it was truly ok to go help Momo and them corrected herself, because "of course its ok he is my son", and when Luffy said that she couldn't be Oden because he was loved by all she literally says that he i
"is more Oden than her", as if there is a list of check marks and Luffy has more of them checked, because again, she literally isnt Oden, she wants to become him and she is trying to fill those checkmarks and then she will(in her mind) become Oden, she even told Ulti " thisbis the day I become Oden" iirc, because she isnt him yet, she goes back and forth with this
"We", are Carrot fans who can't bare the toxicity anymore.
To be honest, if you can't bear the toxicity (which arguably doesn't actually exist, and I say that as someone who supports Carrot and Yamato equally), you probably need to distance yourself from forums altogether because these aren't a Carrot only support group.
If there is any actual toxicity, then report and move on.
@Gol:
Fair enough! Though we've had 119 chapters of Wano in total so far, he's appeared in approximately 40% of them, and that figure will continue to increase.
The story as a whole, since we're in the last handful of years of One Piece and the crew's journey as a whole - yes, he's late to the story/journey.
Just like how Oden was to Roger's crew. He only joined them I think for the final year.
I'm not saying it in a disparaging way though - Oda's more than made up for it and I'm excited for him to be officially part of the crew.
Considering how big the Yonko crews are and even Roger's crew, if Luffy will have less than those totals, he needs to have top-level fighters. Yamato, Jinbe, Sanji, and Zoro all fit the bill.
That's the thing, because some say Jinbe joined up too late. I do agree about welcoming more hard hitters though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Zik:
Luffy will start calling him by his name once he sees his hybrid and full mythological zoan forms.
I recall that Luffy was referring to Chopper as "Monster" for like the entire day he met him to nightfall. I suppose it would actually seem too quick for Luffy to see Yamato as a fully-fledged friend right away since he has only known her for less than a day really.
And in your opinion trying to literally become another person isnt questioning your self place??? When she literally says that she had to take that burden because everyone else that could was dead as far as he knew? Even when she constantly goes om tangents like "I have to break free because I'm Oden/I have to defeat Kaido because I'm Oden/It should be ok to protect Momo because he is my son" as if she had to constantly create arbitrary goalposts and roles to play for herself so she can be what Oden is suposed to be, instead it coming naturally to her? not to mention how she goes back and forth with "I an Oden" and "I have to be Oden/I cant be Oden unless.." ? To each their own interpretation I guess, but to me its very clear that she internalized Kaido's view about onis and belives that she can only have such a great life by literally becoming another person, and thats one of the reasons why Oda is setting up Momo to emulate the hour of legends by lifting Onigashima, because thats the moment Oden became the hero of Wano and the moment she fell for him, and with that+his appearance and lineage Momo will become more Oden than she could ever hope to be, and her final development will go from there
Yamato idealizes Oden. Yamato watched Oden die at a young age and then spent the next 20 years reading his personal journal, which helped define who he/she was and what he/she wanted to be. I'm not a psychologist and I won't pretend to be, but nothing that we've seen so far indicates that Yamato is trying to stop being "Oden" or resolve some sort of identify crisis. To be Oden is to be free. Like the saying goes, it's a feature, not a bug. It's what makes Yamato Yamato. Right now, only readers seem to be acting like there's something inherently wrong with Yamato wanting to be as "Oden" as possible. It's like people assuming there's something wrong with Yamato identifying as a man. People should just let the character be the character without assuming there's anything wrong with them that needs to be fixed.
"An identity crisis is a developmental event that involves a person questioning their sense of self or place in the world." That's the definition. Yamato isn't currently internalizing some struggle or questioning who he/she is. Yamato knows that he/she is the son/daughter or Kaido and was born with the name Yamato, but still chooses to identify as Oden. The character isn't seeking some sort of absolution or reconciliation about how to identify. That's readers assuming that something's wrong with the character. It's reader who are wanting the character to "drop the Oden act."
If Yamato spent the rest of the series being Oden, then that would be perfectly fine. If Yamato chooses to question his/her identify and stop being Oden, then that would be fine as well. We haven't seen anything so far that indicates some pressing need by the character to stop doing what he/she has been doing for 20 years. It mostly seems to be readers projecting what they want to happen for other reasons.
Most interesting part of this argument, is that Yamato isn't also struggling to decide whether to stay or leave, but you think it is xD
Yamato idealizes Oden. Yamato watched Oden die at a young age and then spent the next 20 years reading his personal journal, which helped define who he/she was and what he/she wanted to be. I'm not a psychologist and I won't pretend to be, but nothing that we've seen so far indicates that Yamato is trying to stop being "Oden" or resolve some sort of identify crisis. To be Oden is to be free. Like the saying goes, it's a feature, not a bug. It's what makes Yamato Yamato. Right now, only readers seem to be acting like there's something inherently wrong with Yamato wanting to be as "Oden" as possible. It's like people assuming there's something wrong with Yamato identifying as a man. People should just let the character be the character without assuming there's anything wrong with them that needs to be fixed.
Where did I say that Yamato is trying to stop being Oden??? I said that it will eventually happen because this type of behavior doesnt fit a story, is nonsensical and unhealthy, did you skip how almost every time she proclained to be Oden people got weirded out? Even Luffy, who accepts most stuff, the only ones that didnt were the samurai in the cave, and she doesnt identify as a man she identifies as Oden and that has been argued ad nauseum already. My point is that this is the most likely route that her character will go through, I cant see the story continuing with her still wanting to be him, she will forever love and idolize him but as her own separate person and will achieve her dreams like that, and I belive that only then Luffy will start to call her by her name though this last part could happen before too
In terms of set-up for Yamato, Oda already started incorporating the relevance of Yamato since the start of the Wano Kuni Arc but just not in a manner the readers could understand at that time. But if one looks back on how Oda scripted the story, shades of "Yamato" can be noticed. I've stated it before at the start of the year but Yamato's set-up/foreshadow existed before Oda included his first partial in-panel appearance in chapter 971 and dropped the existence of Kaido's child in chapter 977. Oda appears to not have wanted to mention Yamato's name/existence until he had introduced Oden and covered his story as a Roger Pirates member.
Oda had already tied Ace's story to Wano Kuni during the Battle of Marineford, so he would have been planning in advance how to substantiate that story. Once Oda had a clearer idea of how he wished to portray Wano Kuni (controlled by Kaido and with Wano being the origin of the Poneglyphs), he could have started out conceiving his ideas for Tama and Yamato's story. Considering the moments highlighted between Ace and Tama take place after Ace met Yamato (timewise), Oda would have likely already conceptualised Yamato's role to a extent at that point in time. When Ace was interacting with Tama, he was talking about leaving Wano to return with a bigger crew which implies that any desire he had at attacking Kaido had dissipated by that point (it would be unlike Ace to at least try beforehand to help people in need in front of him, especially if it involved kidnapped children). This could be where Oda began playing around with the ideas of Yamato fighting Ace, befriending him and possibly being Kaido's child. By chapter 912, Oda already knew that he wanted Ace to have realised he was no match for Kaido and consequently was not able to liberate Wano Kuni which explains why he had Ace discuss with Tama his desire to return to Wano with a bigger crew to eventually transform it into a place where Tama can eat as much as she wants once he returns (chapter 918). Such dialog conveys a deeper story in play with Ace which Oda already put into motion by chapter 912. From my perspective, Oda would have been thinking about the events to play out when Ace tried to stop Kaido [and met Yamato] by this point and likely even before the Wano Kuni Arc officially began (chapter 909).
Everything so far in the New World story has been building up to the climax of the Wano Kuni story and that includes Momonosuke's role. Yamato will be integral in helping Momonosuke realise his importance and may also have relevance in helping Momonosuke control his Artificial Dragon/Koi Devil Fruit that has been a plot thread since chapter 685. Will the Artificial Devil Fruit be relevant during the Wano Kuni Arc or will it come into play later in the story when Momonosuke as Shogun of Wano Kuni "challenges" Im and the World Government?
Even if Yamato was not conceived near the start of the One Piece story, there are ways to tie their role to elements introduced/foreshadowed earlier in the story. I have theorised on a few across my posts relating to Yamato's potential.
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And if Yamato does have a role in helping Momonosuke control his Artificial Dragon/Koi Devil Fruit it could indicate that Oda has been planning "Yamato" for some time (some idea of a character that would help Momonosuke since the moment Vegapunk's Artificial Devil Fruit was consumed - chapter 685).
There exist several ways to tie Yamato back to earlier plot threads to give the impression that their place within the crew has been foreshadowed. The case is not so cut and dried for Yamato as of yet.
The character "Yamato" was ostensively not just conceptionalized during the events of Wano Kuni, Oda had been thinking about such a character and the role they would serve long before. Details may have been ironed out prior to Yamato's official appearance/introduction but as per the story Oda had Yamato in mind for some time. Like how Oda connected Yamato the vivre card Ace possessed, there are possible other ways to give context to Yamato's character in the story that came before. The relevance of the Dragon-themed design of the Ryuugu Palace in Fish-Man Island may also be another thread Yamato is connected to due to his association with Kaido, the Uo Uo no Mi, Model: Seiryu, and Oden's journal.
If readers merely reduce Yamato's story, role and character to the notion of hype, they are seemingly robbing themselves of appreciating the practicality in play. Possibilities exist and at this point, the possibility of Yamato sailing aboard the Thousand Sunny along side Luffy is a very real one that has foundation, development and future. The reverse can also apply and that is what makes discussion so fascinating.
Where did I say that Yamato is trying to stop being Oden???
You said,"My guess is that he will start calling her by her name when her identity crisis is solved." In order for Yamato to solve this "identity crisis," he/she would have to acknowledge a crisis or make some attempt to resolve it. To date, he hasn't treated his identity as a problem. You the reader have. That's the point I'm making. Until or unless Yamato acknowledges this "identity crises," there's nothing to solve.
I said that it will eventually happen because this type of behavior doesnt fit a story, is nonsensical and unhealthy, did you skip how almost every time she proclained to be Oden people got weirded out?
Your opinion on what type of behavior fits the story isn't really relevant. This is the way the author has chosen to portray the character. Sure, you can have an opinion on the character's portrayal or direction, but what you think is nonsensical or unhealthy doesn't really matter. There are characters with traits and qualities that I don't like such as Sanji's womanizing, but it doesn't matter what I think is "normal" because that's the way the author has chosen to portray him.
Even Luffy, who accepts most stuff, the only ones that didnt were the samurai in the cave, and she doesnt identify as a man she identifies as Oden and that has been argued ad nauseum already.
Yamato has chosen to identify as a man because Oden was a man. Kaido calls Yamato his son. Again, just because you think it's some sort of problem because of how he/she identifies doesn't mean it is. If Luffy, Kaido, and tons of other characters can refer to him as Kaido's son or a male, then I don't see why this is even a relevant topic.
My point is that this is the most likely route that her character will go through, I cant see the story continuing with her still wanting to be him, she will forever love and idolize him but as her own separate person and will achieve her dreams like that, and I belive that only then Luffy will start to call her by her name though this last part could happen before too
Sure. It's entirely possible. My point is that we haven't seen anything yet in the 50+ chapters since the character's reveal that shows some sort of internalized identity conflict. Until we do, we should treat the Oden thing like a feature that the author intended rather than some sort of a bug that needs to be "fixed."
So in the case that neither Carrot or Yamato joins this arc, do we think the last member will be someone we already know about or a new character entirely
Its idolization taken to another level, yes, but thats not the root or the whole story behind it imo, we have seen many cases of extreme idolization in one piece but nothing like her and Kaido's explanation of her past points towards that. And how am I making stuff up? Isnt she the child of Kaido? the one that was raised in onigashima all alone? thats not the same as the person that she wants to become i.e Oden.
The part you made up was the "true nature" of Yamato as the "on princess".
You're assuming that what you see isn't what you get. While there's most likely more to be revealed about Yamato's past he may simply someone who deeply respects and admires samurai and has an extreme level of utilization for Oden to the point he wants to be Oden.
Also they are indeed benchmarks, she even asked Luffy if it was truly ok to go help Momo and them corrected herself, because "of course its ok he is my son", and when Luffy said that she couldn't be Oden because he was loved by all she literally says that he i
"is more Oden than her", as if there is a list of check marks and Luffy has more of them checked, because again, she literally isnt Oden, she wants to become him and she is trying to fill those checkmarks and then she will(in her mind) become Oden, she even told Ulti " thisbis the day I become Oden" iirc, because she isnt him yet, she goes back and forth with this
Recognizing that Luffy may be Oden than he is does not mean there are benchmarks.
Yamato isn't going around saying today I'll try to defeat Kaido, 100 Oden points for trying, a million Oden points if I win. 50k Oden points for taking part in the raid, 100k Oden points if I join Luffy cuz I think he'll be the next pirate king. That's not what's happening. I think you just really misinterpreted what Yamato meant or what Oda was going for.
Yamato can identify character traits in other ppl and is simply comparing them to things Oden has done and recognizing those actions as Oden like or not.
As far as going back and forth on being Oden. Yamato clearly has a desire to keep up pursuing to be more like Oden and being Oden. Part of that is already calling himself Oden to further commit to that.
Its interesting the samurai don't even question Yamato's claim and/or desire cuz they get the gist of it.
It isn't some identity crisis that needs to be confronted and resolved as character development. Its just taking the concept of a role model in to overdrive.
The more Oda does not frame that as an issue in the story Yamato has to deal with or in any way depicts as a negative or drawback to his character the less it'll most likely be addressed. I've said both before but Oda can easily just turn Yamato wanting to still be Oden after Wano in to his unique quirk. I also said, the way things are being set up in Wano with Momo being aged up, most likely looking like his father, and saving the country Yamato may just say 'Wano doesn't need two Odens so I'm definitely leaving with the strawhats.'
