Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

[Syphin]

For those interested in more information about the combinations, Robby had some great posts about them last year (I bookmarked them O.o):

From May 2020 (previous thread):
@Robby:

The possibilities of 2.9, considering 2 can be written as: Yu, Ni and Fu and 9 can be written as Ku, Ki and Kyu. And even within those, words can have multiple meanings… and as we've seen with Kuma, Oda can take something like "paw" and make it crazy.

Yuku- walk, travel
Yuki (monet)- snow
YuKyu-eternity, idle, salaried
Niku-meat (Luffy would obviously love that)
Niki-pimple
Nikyu (kuma)- paw
Fuku-(kinemon)- duplicate, clothes
Fuki-unexpected, lawlessness,freedom (certainly fit the theme)
Fukyu-diffusion, spread

Notably however, Kuma's fruit comes from Nikukyu, "Nikyu" by itself doesn't actually mean anything, so if he's willing to throw in an extra syllable and then simplify it, there's a toooooon more possibilities and you'd need a much better grasp of japanese than I have to even know where to start..

like Niki being pimple isn't gonna be it, but... Funiki is "atmosphere" and thats something that can be worked with.

Also, if you make it 9.2 instead of 2.9 that opens it up even more, and Brook and Robin both set that precedent.

Kuyu- ???
Kiyu- bright, play, hope
Kyuyu- classmate
kuni- country, black stone, long time (obviously we have Wano Kuni)
kini- gracious, beautiful
kyuni-sudden
kufu0 ??? (kung fu?)
kifu- donation, contribution, endowment
kyufu- great riches

And then on top of all that you get even more alternatives like tsu... Oda can do whatever the hell he wants and get away with it.

From July 2020 (this thread):
@Robby:

The funny thing is because there's multiple different characters which can be used for each number, there's a lot of permutations, syllables and meanings… Especially something weird like Paw fruit where it barely describes the actual power at all and just an aspect of it. . But of the sensible ones

Nikyu = paw (kuma)
Niku = meat
Niko = *elephant (zou zou already exists)
Jikyu = persistence
Jiku = axis/axle
Jiko = accident
Fukyu = uncouth
Fuku = clothes (kinemon)
Fuko = *wolf (inu inu: model wolf already exists)

Tama's fruit might be the tsuke tsuke which is "attach", and that would also fit the pattern though it starts getting a little trickier and requires more nuance in the language than I have.
Monet's fruit Yuki Yuki apparently sort of fits but you really have to stretch it and reverse the numbers, or possibly have a bad grasp of japanese to make it work. Not sure which. At this point I'm fairly convinced that's something a monet fan made up five years ago to argue for her joining and it stuck as a taken for granted myth.

It gets worse if you allow 9.2 to be the word instead, because then you get another dozen options, including Kuni (country) which is where they are now, Wano Kuni, suddenly, ball child, lottery, accident, payment... and some other things... but that doesn't allow for the perfect adding up to Su-ni-go which HAS to be intentional, that's just beyond coincidence.

Then it gets REALLY bad because words can stack into other words in weird ways thanks to how kanji works, but I think Oda tends to keep devil fruits simpler, so...

This of course all gets harder if Oda gets really crazy and stretches, and uses the abbreviation of a word instead of a full word to make something.
My grasp of japanese is nowhere near strong enough to make any real examples though.

So Oda could in theory pull out "this is the watermelon fruit. But actually, melon turns into asparagus, which then turns into eighteen, which is of course two times nine!" so there could be any sort of stretch if he wants it so. (The previous sentence is complete nonsense example, none of those words turn into those things.)

[Robby]

Keep in mind my grasp of Japanese is poor at best and I am not in any way an authoritative source on ANY of that. That's what I know from osmosis and googling, but every single bit of that could be completely wrong and in fact my searches from one month to the next came up with different results.

People also swear a cat fruit would fit but that would be Neko which I don't think actually fits without some serious stretching or wordplay shenanigans. (Lucci set the precedent with Neko Neko no Mi, Model: Leopard) But some legendary modifier could make a difference.

[Monquito]

That's why it makes sense for the Sunny to get it, all those broken abilities would be poof gone, The Sunny would only use Maximum Hyper Speed Coup De Burst

[Syphin]

@Monquito:

Maximum Hyper Speed Coup De Burst

Not gonna lie. That sounds ridiculously cool.

Dam, now I want to see it!

Sunny accidentally teleports to the Moon. Hello new adventure

[Berry Rich]

@King:

Yasopp was the first recruit in Shanks' crew, but Beckman is the First Mate.

Yasopp was first? Hmm…That's a good point. Is there information on when Beckman was recruited? There is a significant difference in approach for the 2nd recruit to a late recruit.
Shanks: West Blue
Yasopp: East Blue
Lucky Roux: South Blue
Beckman: North Blue
That's quite the journey in recruiting for Shanks' officers.

In Beckman's case, First Mate is equivalent to Vice Captain but not the first recruit
In Rayleigh's case, First Mate is equivalent to Vice Captain and the first recuit, if I'm not mistaken
In Zoro's case, First Mate is equivalent to first recruit and "sometimes" Vice Captain

Are First Mate and Vice Captain being interchanged as the same translated word in Japanese? Or are they two different words? Example being if Urouge and Bartolomeo describe Zoro with the same word.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/First_Mate
JAPANESE NAME:
副船長
ROMANIZED NAME:
Fuku Senchō

It really comes down to if Luffy would mirror Shanks or Roger more in recruiting. Maybe Luffy gives Zoro a promotion :ninja:

Or how I currently see it where there will not be a new member joining the Strawhats as First Mate.

[Godslayer]

@Berry:

Yasopp was first? Hmm…That's a good point. Is there information on when Beckman was recruited? There is a significant difference in approach for the 2nd recruit to a late recruit.
Shanks: West Blue
Yasopp: East Blue
Lucky Roux: South Blue
Beckman: North Blue
That's quite the journey in recruiting for Shanks' officers.

Shanks was in Loguetown during Roger's execution. Maybe he stayed in the Eastblue until he recruited Yasopp and started his crew.
Although from the timeline we were given that would be 2 years of not doing very much.

[Shiebs]

Would a white Tiger devil fruit fit the 2.9 devil fruit theory

[electricmastro]

Who's-Who has a fruit in the Neko Neko series, so if he has one, then it's possible someone else on Onigashima has one as well, seeing as how there are multiple people there that have fruits in the Ryu Ryu series.

[Robby]

@Shiebs:

Would a white Tiger devil fruit fit the 2.9 devil fruit theory

A cat would be "neko". 2.9 would be "niko".

Oda can probably get it there if he does a weird pun or an abbreviation or uses alternate pronunciations and just sort of cheats to do it, but in a straightforward usage, it does not.

white=shiro
tiger=tora

Neither of those fit at all.

Keep in mind, as I said, my Japanese is SUPER BAD, complete novice kindergartener at best, so I am not in any way the definitive answer here.

Like when I searched for info on this before
my May result for 2 came up with Yu, Ni, Fu, and my July result came up with Ji, Ni, Fu.
May result for 9 variant was Ki Ku, and Kyu, while my July search was Ko, Ku and Kyu…

and I honestly have no idea which one is right. They might both be right! They might both be wrong. And I actually never noticed this before until just now having those two posts back to back.

One of those being wrong is news to me and google obviously won't save me here. Need someone that actually speaks the language to clarify.

I think I have to side with the May results that include Yu and Ki, because Snow fruit and everyone said Monet fit the pattern, but I don't know.

Obviously two different characters (4 in all) lead to a lot of VERY different results and possibilities... (but none of them "cat"... as far as I know.)

So if someone who ACTUALLY knows what they're talking about wants to chime in and correct me, I'll amend those old posts appropriately.

[electricmastro]

@Robby:

A cat would be "neko". 2.9 would be "niko".

Oda can probably get it there if he does a weird pun or an abbreviation or uses alternate pronunciations and just sort of cheats to do it, but in a straightforward usage, it does not.

white=shiro
tiger=tora

Neither of those fit at all.

Keep in mind, as I said, my Japanese is SUPER BAD, complete novice kindergartener at best, so I am not in any way the definitive answer here.

Like when I searched for info on this before
my May result for 2 came up with Yu, Ni, Fu, and my July result came up with Ji, Ni, Fu.
May result for 9 variant was Ki Ku, and Kyu, while my July search was Ko, Ku and Kyu…

and I honestly have no idea which one is right. They might both be right! They might both be wrong. And I actually never noticed this before until just now having those two posts back to back.

One of those being wrong is news to me and google obviously won't save me here. Need someone that actually speaks the language to clarify.

I think I have to side with the May results that include Yu and Ki, because Snow fruit and everyone said Monet fit the pattern, but I don't know.

But obviously two different characters (4 in all) lead to a lot of VERY different results and possibilities... (but none of them "cat"... as far as I know.) Its also the difference between the snow fruit being legit theory or being something a fan with a weak grasp of japanese made up to strengthen their case for Monet.

So if someone who ACTUALLY knows what they're talking about wants to chime in and correct me, I'll amend those old posts appropriately.

Well, not that Oda is obligated to go by 2.9 anyway since he hasn't even made that a plot point in the series itself, so he can just give a cat fruit to a recruit if he wanted to regardless and not lose anything of value. lol

[Robby]

@electricmastro:

Well, not that Oda is obligated to go by 2.9 anyway since he hasn't even made that a plot point in the series itself, so he can just give a cat fruit to a recruit if he wanted to regardless and not lose anything of value. lol

No, Oda isn't in any way obligated. But the odds of the current set working out to be Su-ni-go by accident are basically impossible. Oda's even thrown the number "325" around in a few color spreads.

Oda might not have started with that gag in mind, but he certainly had it by the time he named the boat. ANY possible name and he picks the one that would work with that set up? (And Brook was right around the corner, so…)

That he's so blatantly played with it since that SBS by introducing others that fit the pattern like Monet and Kinemon and Tama? AFTER he published the theory? He's playing with it at the very least.

[Cockycent]

Struggling to see the purpose of Sunny getting a DF ability outside of being cool. It would have to be minimal to not downplay the nakama that maintain, navigate, and steer it. Giving it a DF seems pointless, but it isn't impossible.

[Shiebs]

If Yamato doesn’t fit into the 2.9 DF theory that would definitely decrease his chances I would say

[Monquito]

@Cockycent:

Struggling to see the purpose of Sunny getting a DF ability outside of being cool. It would have to be minimal to not downplay the nakama that maintain, navigate, and steer it. Giving it a DF seems pointless, but it isn't impossible.

Luffy has a prophecy to fullfill with Gyojin Island, and he's navigating in the complete opposite direction.

Blonde Ace, Vivi/Alabasta and tentatively Hancock's situations are going to rush things too fast, navigating all the way back would be impractical.

[Kurloz]

@Shiebs:

Would a white Tiger devil fruit fit the 2.9 devil fruit theory

The ko part of neko neko no mi model Byakko does. The ne part doesn't fit into the two standard types of reading that Oda has used so far.

Though I'm sure there are variant pronunciations that recognize ne as 2. That's because Japanese is very flexible in that regard. For example February 22nd became known as Cat day because "Hey, 2 is ni which sort of resembles the nya sound cats make!" I'm pretty sure Baby 5 fits the pattern too if different pronunciation is used. I'm gonna quote some chart I read a while ago here, "Variants of readings may be produced through consonant voicing or gemination, vowel lengthening, and the insertion of the nasal mora n. This is the reason you may notice sounds which are not commonly used to reference numbers."

[Galleon Panthera]

I have been thinking. With Yamato pretty much set to join (not even I will doubt this much, but I still think Carrot will stow along, or is already considered a member by Luffy), could it be possible that Yamato's fangs isn't from a DF ability, but rather natural?

If so, Yamato could potentially eat the Snow Snow Fruit if she'd board the ship (if its on board at all), and seeing Yamato is a bit of a dumdum, I can see Kaido's kid eat the fruit by mistake and being a total noob with it.

That said, I still support the Byakko idea more.

[Syphin]

There is a genuine possibility that Yamato's transformation isn't a result of a Devil Fruit but rather something connected his blood or…other circumstances.

Also the Yuki Yuki no Mi isn't being consumed by anyone. Monet is alive. Oda isn't going to make Law indirectly responsible for two character "deaths". Oda has developed Law into an informal main character and moved Law away from his "Surgeon of Death" imagery to one more heroic. Plus Law is a Doctor that saves people. His character won't be connected to any present time deaths in One Piece as a result of his actions. Vergo, Monet and the Yeti Cool Brothers are alive.

!

[otakufan]

This post is deleted!

[Zik]

@Galleon:

I have been thinking. With Yamato pretty much set to join (not even I will doubt this much, but I still think Carrot will stow along, or is already considered a member by Luffy), could it be possible that Yamato's fangs isn't from a DF ability, but rather natural?

If so, Yamato could potentially eat the Snow Snow Fruit if she'd board the ship (if its on board at all), and seeing Yamato is a bit of a dumdum, I can see Kaido's kid eat the fruit by mistake and being a total noob with it.

That said, I still support the Byakko idea more.

For Carrot to joint Oda would have to do some pretty massive reveals about her and there seems to.nowhere to fit that in Wano at the moment. So she probably would have to stowaway again or a long shot of Luffy sort of treating the situation like with Usopp, taking it as a given that Carrot would keep sailing with the crew but I dont see high chances for it.

It'd be different if Oda had made it a point to show that Carrot has been with them for a long time going on numerous adventures but not as an official strawhat and then put that in jeopardy with her possibly leaving.

I think the snow DF is somewhere on Punk Hazard.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Syphin:

There is a genuine possibility that Yamato's transformation isn't a result of a Devil Fruit but rather something connected his blood or…other circumstances.

Also the Yuki Yuki no Mi isn't being consumed by anyone. Monet is alive. Oda isn't going to make Law indirectly responsible for two character "deaths". Oda has developed Law into an informal main character and moved Law away from his "Surgeon of Death" imagery to one more heroic. Plus Law is a Doctor that saves people. His character won't be connected to any present time deaths in One Piece as a result of his actions. Vergo, Monet and the Yeti Cool Brothers are alive.

! https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/one_piece_v91_ch918_p010-e1595129028205.jpg

But ummm Caesar killed Monet not Law.

All Law did was mix up hearts and made the clown think it was Smoker's.

It's not his fault Caesar decided to stab it.

[Robby]

Ceaser didn't stab the heart. He stabbed the cube it was contained in and hit the floor, as we saw in the next chapter.

Even if he DID hit it, Monet is a logia. A SNOW logia in an island covered in snow. If Ceaser wasn't imbuing that thing with Haki, she recovers anyway.

She was already weak and coughing up blood before the "stab" thanks to Tashigi, and we saw with other characters just jostling it was enough to mess them up. It didn't need to be a direct hit to knock her out.

If Oda wanted to clearly show the heart being stabbed, he could have. He instead picked the one camera angle where a near miss would look like a hit.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Zik:

But ummm Caesar killed Monet not Law.

Law was a part of it. Can't let him be partly responsible for a death, saem way Oda had to make sure Sanji was absolved for killing Pedro.

They'll both be fine later so it doesn't matter but he's playing such a long game on them he had to make it clean sooner than later.

Vergo as a parent killer might actually be done. Or at least not allowed to move free without a cost.

[Monquito]

I just come to the realization that Luffy's last tour in the New World, could be widely different from Roger's, similarily to how Roger obviously never did the Amazon Lily-Impel Down-MarineFore tour at the end of Paradise.

Graveyard island-Where Ace and Newgate are, possibly not visited by Roger. Luffy and Yamato would make sense to want to go there
Science flying saucer Vegapunk's facility- Definitely Roger wasn't here.
Missing Road Poneglyph Island- Oden's diary cannot simply spoil its location, because it changed to God knows where.
Elbaf- we have literally no proof that Roger ever went there, and considering that the Giants are not currently allied to any Yonkou, especially not with Shanks, a visit was never made.

LodeStar and Laugh Tale would be the only ones to mimic, and especially Laugh Tale of which is unlikely that Oden would write in common language of what they found there.

Rendering Oden's diary, not spoilery at all for Yamato.

[electricmastro]

@Monquito:

I just come to the realization that Luffy's last tour in the New World, could be widely different from Roger's, similarily to how Roger obviously never did the Amazon Lily-Impel Down-MarineFore tour at the end of Paradise.

Graveyard island-Where Ace and Newgate are, possibly not visited by Roger. Luffy and Yamato would make sense to want to go there
Science flying saucer Vegapunk's facility- Definitely Roger wasn't here.
Missing Road Poneglyph Island- Oden's diary cannot simply spoil its location, because it changed to God knows where.
Elbaf- we have literally no proof that Roger ever went there, and considering that the Giants are not currently allied to any Yonkou, especially not with Shanks, a visit was never made.

LodeStar and Laugh Tale would be the only ones to mimic, and especially Laugh Tale of which is unlikely that Oden would write in common language of what they found there.

Rendering Oden's diary, not spoilery at all for Yamato.

Well Luffy talked about seeing his friends again after traveling through the world the first time around, so Yamato joining would mean she would get to see places like Alabasta for example.

[King Cannon]

The fact that one of Yamato's favorite food is raw fish very much hints at a cat fruit.

[Shiebs]

Monet also never had her backstory of how she got her wings explained, we know Law gave her them but we don’t know why, in the flashback she just had regular arms and in the present she had wings, there’s a story there

Also she and Sugar are sisters who haven’t seen in each other in ages, there’s got to be a family reunion

[wolfwood]

@King:

The fact that one of Yamato's favorite food is raw fish very much hints at a cat fruit.

Raw fish like sushi or raw fish like catching a trout straight from the stream?

[electricmastro]

@wolfwood:

Raw fish like sushi or raw fish like catching a trout straight from the stream?

Some it sounds pretty maverick and valiant to just eat fish straight from the stream right after catching it. Haha.

[Zack]

@wolfwood:

Raw fish like sushi or raw fish like catching a trout straight from the stream?

From the latest SBS:

Question 13:
R: Odacchi! Please tell us the age, height, and favorite food of Yamato! – P.N. Pumpkin
O: Sure~ A very straightforward question~ Since you asked, here’s the answers:
Age is 28 years old (was born on the same year as Momonosuke)
Height is 2.63m (about twice as tall as Luffy)
Favorite Food is, of course, Oden. However, he also really likes salmon (by biting into it raw).

source: https://thelibraryofohara.com/2021/06/03/volume-99-sbs-question-corner/

[King Cannon]

@wolfwood:

Raw fish like sushi or raw fish like catching a trout straight from the stream?

He's Kaido's child. What do you think?

[electricmastro]

Bodyguard was recently suggested as a role, and while it does sound weird for Luffy to have one, I suppose Yamato could be one in light of Yamato challenging Kaido in Chapter 1015 after Luffy, as well as Zoro, got incapacitated after trying to fight him. This could also extend to when Yamato attacked Ulti to save Luffy and defended Momo and Shinobu against Sasaki.

[Syphin]

So both Father and Child enjoy fish. That is hilarious.

It's also interesting that wild-caught [Alaskan] Salmon is one of the healthiest fish available to eat. I'm sure the Wano variant is equally as exceptional if not more. No wonder Yamato grew up to be so badass.

@electricmastro:

Bodyguard was recently suggested as a role, and while it does sound weird for Luffy to have one, I suppose Yamato could be one in light of Yamato challenging Kaido in Chapter 1015 after Luffy, as well as Zoro, got incapacitated after trying to fight him. This could also extend to when Yamato attacked Ulti to save Luffy and defended Momo and Shinobu against Sasaki.

Wouldn't Defender sound cooler?

[Zik]

@Robby:

Ceaser didn't stab the heart. He stabbed the cube it was contained in and hit the floor, as we saw in the next chapter.

Even if he DID hit it, Monet is a logia. A SNOW logia in an island covered in snow. If Ceaser wasn't imbuing that thing with Haki, she recovers anyway.

She was already weak and coughing up blood before the "stab" thanks to Tashigi, and we saw with other characters just jostling it was enough to mess them up. It didn't need to be a direct hit to knock her out.

If Oda wanted to clearly show the heart being stabbed, he could have. He instead picked the one camera angle where a near miss would look like a hit.

So you're saying he stabbed the cube and it didn't pierce any further to reach the heart? And if it did Monet most likely has that 2nd nature reaction where even she doesn't know she'll be hit just automatically activates her logia intangible ability?

Law was a part of it. Can't let him be partly responsible for a death, saem way Oda had to make sure Sanji was absolved for killing Pedro.

Yeah he was part of exchanging hearts, the wrong one at that. Thats it.

I don't really see him as a murderer for it. Barely even an accessory. Its not like he provided the weapon.

Also whats this about Sanji's involvement with Pedro's sacrificial suicide? He didn't do anything. Maybe my recollection is poor. Crazy Pedro just up and decided to pull out a bomb so the strawhats could escape.

Vergo as a parent killer might actually be done. Or at least not allowed to move free without a cost.

Now he's the one character I think is alive.

After what Doflamingo lost somebody has to be there when he gets out of Impel Down.

[Shiebs]

@Zik:

Now he's the one character I think is alive.

After what Doflamingo lost somebody has to be there when he gets out of Impel Down.

Vergo as a Marine would be the perfect person to break Doflamingo out of Impeldown

Also Doflamingo and Croc need to settle there score from Marineford, Oda spent a lot of time on that rivalry there might be a bigger reason, also there plans and schemes are very similar

[Robby]

@Zik:

So you're saying he stabbed the cube and it didn't pierce any further to reach the heart?

There is no question that what Caesar stabbed the bloody ‘block of flesh’ and that blood came out indicating injury to it, but as can obviously be seen, Caesar is in a weakened state and the position he stabbed the ‘block of flesh’ in is such a weird one, only a small fraction of his remaining strength would have come through in the stab. And Oda chose the ONE camera angle where hitting the edge of the cube would look like hitting it dead center.

But in the next chapter you can see the spike is clearly embedded in the ground, not the cube. He missed. Slippery blood stuff and he was wounded. But the jostling was enoguh to shake her up, just like it was for Smoker.

Either he missed and the cube slid away… or he pulled the spike out and then forcefully stabbed the ground. For some reason. Even though he was stabbing on his side with his pinned arm and was about to collapse.

If you look close you see just the top most bit of the cube is indented.

If the spike was just laying on its side it'd be one thing, but it's embedded in the ground. That's not an accidental prop placement, that's a conscious Oda choice.

And if it did Monet most likely has that 2nd nature reaction where even she doesn't know she'll be hit just automatically activates her logia intangible ability?

If you can't get behind the visual fact that the spike missed, then yeah, the second thing is also in play.

She wasn't hit in the first place, but the logia defense also covers it if you need even more explanation.

Mostly need to address the logia thing as a second out because the anime changed the scene pretty heavily.

@Zik:

Also whats this about Sanji's involvement with Pedro's sacrificial suicide? He didn't do anything. Maybe my recollection is poor. Crazy Pedro just up and decided to pull out a bomb so the strawhats could escape.

Sanji is the reason that group went there at that time in the way they did. And he also beat up Luffy which didn't help.

The would have eventually hit up BM's territory anyway for the poneglyph, but it would have been weeks or months later post-Wano with full crew strength.

Granted a few months later all the random happenstance alliances would have worked out differently, but they would have had the whole crew and possibly a lot more backup.

[Zik]

@Robby:

There is no question that what Caesar stabbed the bloody ‘block of flesh’ and that blood came out indicating injury to it, but as can obviously be seen, Caesar is in a weakened state and the position he stabbed the ‘block of flesh’ in is such a weird one, only a small fraction of his remaining strength would have come through in the stab. And Oda chose the ONE camera angle where hitting the edge of the cube would look like hitting it dead center.

Even in a weakened state, his intention was to kill (Smoker) and even if he only pricked the heart she would've died but going back to him being weak, its not like that heart is going to grow legs and go anywhere. Caesar had plenty of time to regain some strength and properly stab that heart but as seen in the panels it looks like he successfully stabbed it and it began to bleed out.

Plus its not like the cube the hearts are in are some impenetrable super resistant material. I'm pretty sure he made contact with the heart.

But in the next chapter you can see the spike is clearly embedded in the ground, not the cube. He missed. Slippery blood stuff and he was wounded. But the jostling was enoguh to shake her up, just like it was for Smoker.

https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/one_piece_ch695_06-edit.jpg

Either he missed and the cube slid away… or he pulled the spike out and then forcefully stabbed the ground. For some reason. Even though he was stabbing on his side with his pinned arm and was about to collapse.

If you look close you see just the top most bit of the cube is indented.

If the spike was just laying on its side it'd be one thing, but it's embedded in the ground. That's not an accidental prop placement, that's a conscious Oda choice.

To me, you cant have it both ways. He either tried to stab the heart and failed to penetrate the cube or he completely missed and stabbed the ground.

The stabbed the cube, fail, then stabbed the ground is just extremely odd. The tried to stabbed and completely missed but an indentation can be seen is also odd.

I'd say seeing it that way, that Oda gave so many outs for Monet not to be dead, that actually none of them are outs. They're too inconsistent and the two scenarios almost contradict each other unless you're going with he stabbed the ground a second time for some reason.

If you can't get behind the visual fact that the spike missed, then yeah, the second thing is also in play.

She wasn't hit in the first place, but the logia defense also covers it if you need even more explanation.

Mostly need to address the logia thing as a second out because the anime changed the scene pretty heavily.

Just can't buy in to this one.

I mean if logia defenses are just kicking in then Smoker's heart would've just turned in to smoke when squeezed.

Monet should be dead. If not just from the heart stab then the explosion melting her snow body (surely she can't reform herself in a state of water).

Sanji is the reason that group went there at that time in the way they did. And he also beat up Luffy which didn't help.

The would have eventually hit up BM's territory anyway for the poneglyph, but it would have been weeks or months later post-Wano with full crew strength.

Granted a few months later all the random happenstance alliances would have worked out differently, but they would have had the whole crew and possibly a lot more backup.

Pedro isn't a strawhat pirate. He had absolutely no obligation to go with them to get Sanji back. Sanji was nice to him, helped out on Zou and Pedro felt indebted to him so he went but if we're honest he went there with an ulterior motive, always planning to get to that road poneglyph like he originally intended when he ended up losing 50 years of his life the first time and failed.

The scenario in where he did what he thought would kill Peros was extreme.

Sanji is totally blameless. That crazy cat had a death wish.

[Robby]

@Zik:

Plus its not like the cube the hearts are in are some impenetrable super resistant material. I'm pretty sure he made contact with the heart.

Nothign on the actual page shows that he touched the actual heart. Just the cube.

And the next chapter further emphasizes it.

To me, you cant have it both ways. He either tried to stab the heart and failed to penetrate the cube or he completely missed and stabbed the ground.

You can hit the edge of a thing without hitting the center of it.

Try stabbing a block of jello. Just out of reach. While on your side.

The stabbed the cube, fail, then stabbed the ground is just extremely odd.

That's my point. That's impossible and stupid and almost certainly NOT what happened. But its the ONLY way to say he hit the heart AND explain why the spike is in the ground. ANd its complete nonsense.

Thus, he didn't hit the the heart. He nicked the edge, but basically missed, and hit the ground.

The tried to stabbed and completely missed but an indentation can be seen is also odd.

he hit the edge. That's what created the spurt and the wobble and shook Monet up, but he didn't hit it well.

Just can't buy in to this one.

I mean if logia defenses are just kicking in then Smoker's heart would've just turned in to smoke when squeezed.

Smoker's heart was fully encased at the time. It had nowhere to go.

Monet should be dead. If not just from the heart stab then the explosion melting her snow body (surely she can't reform herself in a state of water).

Explosions have never once killed anyone in the series. They're not a threat.

But under your hypotethical that she… melts? Why wouldn't she be able to reform later? Every other logia can. Crocodile has had his head cut off and he's fine. Aokiji has permanently replaced a limb with ice and its not in danger of melting.

ANd after the explosion passes and it gets cold again? And other snow falls? When others inevitably arrive to investigate? Like Doflamingo did? Like the marines that would be coming shortly? Like Ceaser himself now that he's free?

The strawhats picked up Ceaser and no one commented on the heart that was literally right next to him. There were shenanigans.

Sanji is totally blameless. That crazy cat had a death wish.

And yet, if they hadn't gone to get Sanji THAT day, with only the half crew, the scenario in which they eventually invaded Big Mom would have been completely different.

Sanji and Sanji alone is the reason they HAD to go then, since he's the one that refused to trust in his crew.

[Zik]

@Robby:

Nothign on the actual page shows that he touched the actual heart. Just the cube.

And the next chapter further emphasizes it.

So that stuff on the cube is what? A shadow? Cube liquid? Caesar's blood? Not the blood from the heart?

You can hit the edge of a thing without hitting the center of it.

And even in that scenario you can still penetrate it.

Try stabbing a block of jello. Just out of reach. While on your side.

10 out of 10. I'm a block-of-jello-stabbing-just-out-of-reach-while-on-my-side champion.

That's my point. That's impossible and stupid and almost certainly NOT what happened. But its the ONLY way to say he hit the heart AND explain why the spike is in the ground. ANd its complete nonsense.

I'm going with he stabbed the heart and killed Monet. Then the mystery spike embedded itself in the ground.

Thus, he didn't hit the the heart. He nicked the edge, but basically missed, and hit the ground.

Nicking the edge would still kill her unless you're saying the cube is also impenetrable.

he hit the edge. That's what created the spurt and the wobble and shook Monet up, but he didn't hit it well.

Its my opinion, that alone would still kill her given its her heart.

Smoker's heart was fully encased at the time. It had nowhere to go.

Still would've turned in to smoke if we're going with immediate second nature logia defense kicking in cuz Monet's heart was fully encased and the only exit or entrance would be created by the spike penetrating it.

Explosions have never once killed anyone in the series. They're not a threat.

I'm just doing that just in case back up guaranteed death reasoning.

Sure explosions alone haven't killed but how many ppl have had their hearts pierced and then exploded in One Piece? Only Monet from my recollection.

But under your hypotethical that she… melts? Why wouldn't she be able to reform later?

Well cuz we're talking about the direct weakness to her logia. Extreme heat. Snow stops being snow when it melts.

Where would she reform and when? Do logia users just have an indefinite time to be in a state of nothingness and come back like they weren't ceasing to exist?

Every other logia can. Crocodile has had his head cut off and he's fine.

I'm talking about specific weaknesses.

If Enel or Carrot electrocuted Crocodile he would turn to glass and never reform to sand again.

Aokiji has permanently replaced a limb with ice and its not in danger of melting.

Same would go for Aokiji. He is able to keep his ice arm or leg (I forget) cuz he is made of it so he is in a constant appropriate temperature below zero to keep his arm solid.

ANd after the explosion passes and it gets cold again?

How long would it take for the explosion to finish and the resulting factory fire to die down? Thats the real question.

And other snow falls?

Too late. Already dead.

When others inevitably arrive to investigate? Like Doflamingo did? Like the marines that would be coming shortly? Like Ceaser himself now that he's free?

They'd find the nearest fruit to be a snow logia devil fruit.

The strawhats picked up Ceaser and no one commented on the heart that was literally right next to him. There were shenanigans.

No need to inquire about the dead heart that had already bled out.

And yet, if they hadn't gone to get Sanji THAT day, with only the half crew, the scenario in which they eventually invaded Big Mom would have been completely different.

Sanji and Sanji alone is the reason they HAD to go then, since he's the one that refused to trust in his crew.

And it was Pedro and Pedro alone who made the decision to go with the Sanji retrieval team (same as Carrot). Nobody forced him. He knew the risks showing his face back in Big Mom's territory could lead to potential death. He went anyway. His fault. Only he can own it just like he owned his death. Not Sanji's fault.

Besides its not like the lives of Sanji's mentor/real father and friends weren't threatened. Hard to say he had a choice in the matter. Regardless he'd have to go just to address that. Just like Sanji said when they did show up, he left them a note and never asked them to come for him especially Pedro of all ppl.

[starlalilymoon]

I'm with Robby on this one, I don't think Monet is dead because of how it was portrayed in the artwork. If she was really dead it would have been directly in the cube, but it has been drawn in a specific manner to show it wasn't the case.

[Robby]

Yeah, I'm done trying to explain this to you.

She'll be fine whenever Oda gets around to the Ceaser or Dresserossa cover story. Dunno why he's taken as long as he has except that the arcs are multi-year and interconnected now, and he had actual hero pieces to move around.

@Zik:

Besides its not like the lives of Sanji's mentor/real father and friends weren't threatened. Hard to say he had a choice in the matter. Regardless he'd have to go just to address that. Just like Sanji said when they did show up, he left them a note and never asked them to come for him especially Pedro of all ppl.

Sanji could have just, y'know, said that. And trusted in his crew.

Instead of abandoning them and then actively beating the shit out of Luffy later.

It's like he didn't pay any attention to what Nami or Robin went through at Arlong or Water 7.

[starlalilymoon]

@Robby:

She'll be fine whenever Oda gets around to the Ceaser or Dresserossa cover story. Dunno why he's taken as long as he has except that the arcs are multi-year and interconnected now, and he had actual hero pieces to move around.

Maybe the cover story with her be the next one, since we just finished one relating to Whole Cake Island, but guess we have to see. Though I didn't think about Caesar being in it, but it make a lot of sense if he was. Maybe that's why it took so long since Caesar was still with the Strawhats.

[Zik]

@Robby:

Yeah, I'm done trying to explain this to you.

Well its not like I wanted an explanation.

I think she's dead.

I entertained the reasoning for this out you said Oda created but i find it lacking.

In the chance, Oda does bring back Monet I wouldn't be surprised if everything you brought up had absolutely nothing to do with why she's alive.

Sanji could have just, y'know, said that. And trusted in his crew.

Instead of abandoning them and then actively beating the shit out of Luffy later.

It's like he didn't pay any attention to what Nami or Robin went through at Arlong or Water 7.

Sanji's actions aren't the problem here. I don't need to rehash his trauma and why he tried to push the crew away in what he feels was a situation that definitely trumps the threat of Arlong and his crew or the world government and Marines (keeping in mind that if Big Mom wasn't planning on betraying the Vinsmokes immediately and Sanji went against the wedding anyway Zeff and the Baraitie would all be dead and destroyed).

Lets stick to crazy death wishing Pedro, he's to blame for his death and no one else.

[Galleon Panthera]

Ugh….here we go again with people claiming Monet is alive. Unless you got actual proof she's actually alive, and not going all "but by this angle, and the way how this was pictured". Really, sorry, that sounds really, REALLY farfetched and reeks of desperation. That and it has been YEARS, and no one, besides hard Monet supporters have been clinging to the possibility of her being alive.

Also for the Logia argument…yes, she is/was a Snow Logia, BUT logias can be HIT if they are unaware of the attack coming. Monet had NO idea that Ceasar had her heart, and even if she wasn't stabbed, she was already injured and planned to blow up the island anyways with a Vergo sliced and diced into pieces and used as decoration on railing. She was going to die no matter what. People can explain all they like, but those two are DEAD.

If Oda was really playing around to play around with Monet's death with that knife, he'd shown it in the anime directly to give that illusion. But he didn't, and yes, besides filler, I consider the anime to be canon to the manga.

[electricmastro]

@Galleon:

Ugh….here we go again with people claiming Monet is alive. Unless you got actual proof she's actually alive, and not going all "but by this angle, and the way how this was pictured". Really, sorry, that sounds really, REALLY farfetched and reeks of desperation. That and it has been YEARS, and no one, besides hard Monet supporters have been clinging to the possibility of her being alive.

Also for the Logia argument…yes, she is/was a Snow Logia, BUT logias can be HIT if they are unaware of the attack coming. Monet had NO idea that Ceasar had her heart, and even if she wasn't stabbed, she was already injured and planned to blow up the island anyways with a Vergo sliced and diced into pieces and used as decoration on railing. She was going to die no matter what. People can explain all they like, but those two are DEAD.

If Oda was really playing around to play around with Monet's death with that knife, he'd shown it in the anime directly to give that illusion. But he didn't, and yes, besides filler, I consider the anime to be canon to the manga.

You know, sometimes I think Oda had things play out the way he did so that his characters are talked about more. Like I don’t think Pell and Pagaya would have been talked about more if they had died somehow, and now they get referenced all over the place in attempt to discredit how smart Oda is. lol

[Galleon Panthera]

@Zik:

For Carrot to joint Oda would have to do some pretty massive reveals about her and there seems to.nowhere to fit that in Wano at the moment. So she probably would have to stowaway again or a long shot of Luffy sort of treating the situation like with Usopp, taking it as a given that Carrot would keep sailing with the crew but I dont see high chances for it.

The bolded is what Im pretty much banking on, and why I support both Carrot and Yamato joining. I agree there's not much space anymore for any "fan thought" massive reveals that can shake the New Nakama discussion that would skyrocket Carrot into the stratosphere. Like Shift has already stated himself, and this is where I also put my stand here….the moment the Straw Hats leave Wano and without Carrot, that is the point where I say "Yeah, she's not joining. its done. Over with. "

Unlike Monet supporters, I won't be making the biggest excuses and head canon stories of how Carrot still can join after Wano. No, once the Straw Hats leave Wano without Carrot, again, that is where I draw the line. And this post can be quoted for future reference.

@electricmastro:

You know, sometimes I think Oda had things play out the way he did so that his characters are talked about more. Like I don’t think Pell and Pagaya would have been talked about more if they had died somehow, and now they get referenced all over the place in attempt to discredit how smart Oda is. lol

Really, I have nothing against Monet, but there are times people just have to let it go. People wanna doubt Pedro's death, sure, that I can still understand because it happened not so long ago. But, bloody hell, we are going into the Endgame ground of the series. Why does Monet still EVEN matter at this point or Mr Sliced-&-Diced Vergo? Heck, her younger sister is in Impel Down with the rest of the Donquixote Family.

Monet's death….it was all there, the music, the snowfall (ice/snow is a symbolism of death), and hell, you even get to see the cube spiked right down the center, with blood coming out of it, no tricks, no tricky angles, nothing. Just straight down the center, no bars given. And if she was magically surviving that attack, there's still the fact she was in a collapsing building wanting to die and take everyone with her.

Now, Im not going to argue on this matter further. To ME specifically and Im pretty sure to many others, Monet IS DEAD until further notice, or whenever this magical Cover Story has happened.

[Robby]

@Galleon:

Ugh….here we go again with people claiming Monet is alive. Unless you got actual proof she's actually alive, and not going all "but by this angle, and the way how this was pictured". Really, sorry, that sounds really, REALLY farfetched and reeks of desperation.

If this was Naruto or Hunter Hunter or Promised Neverland, I'd 100% agree she was dead. But this is One Piece. Oda doesn't kill when fainting serves the same purpose. He just doesn't, no matter how far fethched or tension breaking the survivals are, or how much they sabotage future attempts at drama.

He does it consistently even though it makes the story worse for it. But that's how it is.

I don't care at all about Monet. I'd PREFER if she was dead. Pedro too. But they'll be fine eventually all the same.

That and it has been YEARS, and no one, besides hard Monet supporters have been clinging to the possibility of her being alive.

Mr. 9 and Bellamy were "dead" for a much longer time before they were revealed to be alive. Mr .9 from chapters 111-632. For THIRTEEEN YEARS. And Bellamy was dead almost as long.

Monet and Vergo were only 320 chapters ago. Seven years. Still within this same saga even! They aren't anywhere near the record holders yet.

, and yes, besides filler, I consider the anime to be canon to the manga.

The anime changes and gets things wrong ALL THE TIME that contradict the manga later. Not to mention the censorship or dropping cover stories. It's a decent adaptation but is in no way canon and Oda doesn't give them notes on a week to week basis..

Heck, even the movies Oda personally wrote himself aren't canon since they just don't fit the timeline.

@Galleon:

Why does Monet still EVEN matter at this point or Mr Sliced-&-Diced Vergo?

They don't matter.

Buggy, Hachi, Jango, Fullbody, Geddatsu, Wapol, Mrs. Goldenweek, Hachi, Enel, CP9 and Caribou didn't matter either.

Their stories were done, they were beaten. Oda had no reason to go back to them.

They still got redemptive, lengthy, cover stories, some ultimately more important than others, Some have come back into the actual story and some have not.

Oda likes keeping all his toys and giving them happy endings or a chance to reform.

Even super minor characters are important to Oda, he goes back to everyone given enough time. Even one chapter characters like Gaimon get revisited.

Heck, her younger sister is in Impel Down with the rest of the Donquixote Family.

That sounds like a story hook to me.

(And DID they get to Impel Down? Is that 100% confirmed? Jack attacked the ships that were transporting Dofla as I recall.)

[electricmastro]

Was suggested that Yamato can’t join because her face is too similar to Nami’s face and that would cause confusion.

I mean, Oda has admitted that he has gotten frustrated over not finding more beautiful female faces he likes drawing, so I doubt he would let that shortcoming stop him, in addition to how he can stylize hair, clothing, etc.

[Robby]

Week 3 Yamato's face looked too much like Nami's, legit criticism.

Week 43, not so much.

They're easy to tell apart now, Oda's subtly tweaked the design a lot so even the extreme closeups are different now.

And anything that's a medium shot or further there's no confusion at all cause then you see the horns and hairstyle and clothes and height.

[Cockycent]

Monet's heart was pierced.

[DynoStretch]

So assuming Yamato does end up becoming the final Straw Hat, this poses some questions about their role in the group.

What kind of job would they would have as a Straw Hat? All ten of them have some specified role on the ship, even Jinbei joining as late as he has, has now taken on the role of helmsman. What would Yamato bring to the table?

While having a pretty unique weapon compared to the other main characters and being the offspring of an emperor is pretty significant; it would seem weird if Yamato didn't have, or not obtain, some kind of devil fruit to make their battle abilities stand out from the rest of the Straw Hats. What fruit power do you think would suit them?

[Boombalaga]

She can be a combatant like Zoro ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Lightprayer]

Yamato could write the logbook like Oden did.