It´s mind boggling how people actually bought this.
Buy what? Only looked at the first 5 seconds to see what it's all about.
American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed
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As an actual adult who is having his retirement savings wiped out by this second market crash in a decade, yes, you're kind of a monster.
This doesn't matter unless you're planning on retiring within a few months. Even ten years from now the market would have regained these losses, and then some.
It's fine to want things to damage Trump, for which there are literally hundreds of personal scandals and illegal things he's done that only affect him and criminals. You can cheer for those things to catch up to him.
The thing is that the economy is the one thing that Trump has hitched his wagon to and the one thing that fuels his re-election hopes. Most people don't care about his unparliamentary behaviour or the numerous scandals. It's all brushed under the rug as him being a maverick and being unconventional. All they care about is that unemployment has been historically low (including among African Americans and Latinos), real wages are rising, inflation is under control, taxes are low and interest rates are low. The moment the bottom falls off the economy and people start getting laid off, he's in serious trouble. And a lot of the folks that came over to him from Obama in 2012 are the most vulnerable in the event of a downturn. They will absolutely hammer him if the economy tanks.
its not good to be happy about things that ruin millions of lives, destroy markets, and kill people.
With all of what I said, amen to that.
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This doesn't matter unless you're planning on retiring within a few months. Even ten years from now the market would have regained these losses, and then some.
.Yes, because losing a huge chunk of savings in a week that already took a decade to build back up after the last market crash a decade ago, is made okay by the fact I'll have made some of it back eventually. So by the time I'm ready to retire it might be back to where it is now, as opposed to where it is now plus growth and interest.
Just as long as the market doesn't crash and burn it again in 2031 next time a republican takes office and once again wipe out all the gains for the third time.
And just because I have time to wait… what about everyone that IS of age to retire soon who can't afford years to let it rise back up?
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The moment the bottom falls off the economy and people start getting laid off, he's in serious trouble. And a lot of the folks that came over to him from Obama in 2012 are the most vulnerable in the event of a downturn. They will absolutely hammer him if the economy tanks.
Have you considered that it might be a conspiracy spearheaded by George Soros and Obamer. I mean they created the corona hoax to scare people away from voting for a good christian guy who cares about the working man, and vote for a godless communist who'd let other men bang your wife. There is ample precedence that they'd crash the economy before they'd let Donny make America great again.
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This post is deleted!
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Biden is likely now ahead in Washington.
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Yes, because losing a huge chunk of savings in a week that already took a decade to build back up after the last market crash a decade ago, is made okay by the fact I'll have made some of it back eventually. So by the time I'm ready to retire it might be back to where it is now, as opposed to where it is now plus growth and interest.
Don’t want to belabour this too much, but a recession does not completely wipe out the gains made by a bull run. On a long enough timescale, the stock market has recovered, always. It has grown at least 5% year on year over any period of ten years. Including the Great Depression.
Of course, past performance does not guarantee future returns, but this is from data over a hundred years.
Just as long as the market doesn't crash and burn it again in 2031 next time a republican takes office and once again wipe out all the gains for the third time.
It's a little disengenuous to blame the current drop on the Republican administration.
And just because I have time to wait… what about everyone that IS of age to retire soon who can't afford years to let it rise back up?
If they've been invested in the market for any sufficient amount of time (>10 years), their investments are doing more than fine, even taking the current drop into account. Anyone invested in the market for less than that expecting a bumper return was timing the market, and that rarely works out well.
Have you considered that it might be a conspiracy spearheaded by George Soros and Obamer. I mean they created the corona hoax to scare people away from voting for a good christian guy who cares about the working man, and vote for a godless communist who'd let other men bang your wife. There is ample precedence that they'd crash the economy before they'd let Donny make America great again.
I missed you wolfwoof.
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While you can’t blame Trump’s administration for the stock market’s current problems.
You can blame Trump for his pointless tariffs on China and Mexico
You can blame Trump (and Republicans) for giving Rich People and Tax Breaks they didn’t need.
You can blame Trump for cutting money from the CDC for no good reason.
You can blame Trump for his lackluster response regarding the outbreak and accusing the democrats of using this “hoax” to try and make him look bad.I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284
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Weird, I thought Trump’s corona proposals were “to the left” of what Democrats wanted. Oh well!
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I'm going to specifically talk about the economy at large. Not how these things might have affected you or a friend of yours.
You can blame Trump for his pointless tariffs on China and Mexico
If the initial trade deal with China is anything to go by, the tariffs were a measured success. He got a commitment to buy more American stuff than ever before (although Coronavirus might put a spanner in that) and even got concessions on the IP theft front, perhaps the biggest issue Western companies doing business in China faced.
The tariffs on Mexico got them to agree to the new NAFTA pretty hastily. The new NAFTA contains minimum wage and other worker protections that Mexico must ensure for workers in the auto sector. This is a win for workers in Mexico. This is also a win for Trump because this means that auto manufacturers would be less inclined to move production to Mexico since costs would be comparable, keeping those manufacturing jobs in the US.
You can blame Trump (and Republicans) for giving Rich People and Tax Breaks they didn’t need.
First, the tax breaks were for EVERYONE. The rich got a disproportionate amount of them, but all income brackets saw their taxes go down. Second, the corporation tax cut resulted in companies buying back their own stocks and pushing their prices up (perhaps not what Trump and co were intending), boosting the stock market and pumping up Robby's retirement portfolio.
You can blame Trump for cutting money from the CDC for no good reason.
You can blame Trump for his lackluster response regarding the outbreak and accusing the democrats of using this “hoax” to try and make him look bad.This has very little to do with the initial stock market drop off, which was responding to figures around the slow down in Chinese manufacturing and the sudden outbreak in Italy and Europe. Even the current drop has more to do with the large scale quarantines than with the botched response in the US.
Take an economics class or two.
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While you can’t blame Trump’s administration for the stock market’s current problems.
You can blame Trump for his pointless tariffs on China and Mexico
You can blame Trump (and Republicans) for giving Rich People and Tax Breaks they didn’t need.
You can blame Trump for cutting money from the CDC for no good reason.
You can blame Trump for his lackluster response regarding the outbreak and accusing the democrats of using this “hoax” to try and make him look bad.You can also blame him for his shitty speech last night that dunked the market in real time lol.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
This has very little to do with the initial stock market drop off, which was responding to figures around the slow down in Chinese manufacturing and the sudden outbreak in Italy and Europe. Even the current drop has more to do with the large scale quarantines than with the botched response in the US.
Take an economics class or two.
Considering there is no tiny man working in the middle of the stock market, who went "hmm yes it is exactly these factors that caused me to pull the Number Down lever" maybe you shouldn't express these as absolutes that only a big brained blowhard who went to economy college would know.
You're not even wrong about those factors mattering tremendously, you're right. But you're presenting them like a fraudulent asshole. Probably because you are a fraudulent asshole.
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@Monkey:
Considering there is no tiny man working in the middle of the stock market, who went "hmm yes it is exactly these factors that caused me to pull the Number Down lever" maybe you shouldn't express these as absolutes that only a big brained blowhard who went to economy college would know.
There are a lot of people getting paid a lot of money to try and pinpoint these factors. There's a competitive advantage to knowing exactly what affects the market and how. Hell, there are machine learning models that analyse dear leader's tweets and react in real time. So yeah, not as much of a smoke and mirrors show as you're portraying it to be. And certainly not amenable to armchair historians saying "lol, orange man bad, market down".
@Monkey:
You're not even wrong about those factors mattering tremendously, you're right. But you're presenting them like a fraudulent asshole. Probably because you are a fraudulent asshole.
Take your ad hominem and shove it up your ass.
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Just here for my daily announcement of: Fuck the racist-in-chief, Trump.
Check out my podcast for conversations about Greatness in anime, sports, music, and whatever else we can think of.
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If the initial trade deal with China is anything to go by, the tariffs were a measured success.
The tariffs served no purpose other than illustrating Trump's weird and petty grudge against China. And had a handful of negative impacts on the economy,consumers, and farmers (a number of whom supported Trump and who loss millions of dollars because of him).
The tariffs on Mexico got them to agree to the new NAFTA pretty hastily.
I vaguely remember someone mentioning that Trump came up with the idea to try and punish mexico for it's migrant problem and actually believing this would galvanize them into giving him his money for his wall needless to say that was a failure. And much like his tariffs on China it was equally stupid.
The new NAFTA contains minimum wage and other worker protections that Mexico must ensure for workers in the auto sector. This is a win for workers in Mexico. This is also a win for Trump because this means that auto manufacturers would be less inclined to move production to Mexico since costs would be comparable, keeping those manufacturing jobs in the US.
And yet.
First, the tax breaks were for EVERYONE.
That's what they were billed as except everyone did not benefit them and even a blind man can tell you they were in fact for the rich.
The rich got a disproportionate amount of them, but all income brackets saw their taxes go down. Second, the corporation tax cut resulted in companies buying back their own stocks and pushing their prices up (perhaps not what Trump and co were intending), boosting the stock market and pumping up Robby's retirement portfolio.
Well…..
Take an economics class or two.
Nah I'm good maybe you should stop weirdly ignoring Trump's stupidity especially when it comes to the economy the economy that's seen him take credit for gains that happened because of Obama while predictably not taking credit for the negatives he himself is responsible for.
@Monkey:
You can also blame him for his shitty speech last night that dunked the market in real time lol.
The one where he supposedly said "Oh Fuck" on a hot mic?
Just here for my daily announcement of: Fuck the racist-in-chief, Trump.
What did the ass- erm guy do now?
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The tariffs served no purpose other than illustrating Trump's weird and petty grudge against China.
Did you completely miss the trade deal the two parties signed late last year and what the terms of that deal were?
And had a handful of negative impacts on the economy,consumers, and farmers (a number of whom supported Trump and who loss millions of dollars because of him).
This is covered by the "measured" in "measured success".
First, if China keeps up its end of the trade deal, they'd be buying more American goods than at any point in history. This is a markedly bigger win than a year of hurt.
Second, it gets them to make concessions on the rampant IP theft going on there. This is also a big deal.
Third, supply chains had started diversifying by moving manufacturing to South East Asia. Over the longer term, this is also a win (albeit a smaller one) since this keeps the world less at the mercy of China and what happens there (as the current manufacturing slowdown is showing).
Fourth, FWIW, the tariffs had a huge impact on the Chinese economy, much larger than what it did on the American one. The tariffs caught them in the middle of an existing manufacturing slump and intensified its effects. Chinese exports globally were hit hard. This is what brought them to the negotiating table.
I vaguely remember someone mentioning that Trump came up with the idea to try and punish mexico for it's migrant problem and actually believing this would galvanize them into giving him his money for his wall needless to say that was a failure. And much like his tariffs on China it was equally stupid.
It was not a failure. Mexico agreed to house people seeking asylum until the US asylum court could get to their cases. The also agreed to have stricter border control on their southern border. These are policy wins for the president.
The broader point that fear-mongering around migrants is asinine and stupid is perfectly valid of course.
And yet.
The new NAFTA hasn't even been implemented yet. This is a long-term trade deal whose effect will be seen in years from now, not today. Again, I am not being snarky here, but please take an economics class.
That's what they were billed as except everyone did not benefit them and even a blind man can tell you they were in fact for the rich.
I don't know what to tell you. Take a look at this article where it delineates the tax brackets and the marginal tax rates for them. Also take a look at this report from the Tax Foundation which estimated that the bottom quintile projected to get a 0.8% increase in take-home income in 2018. The 20-80 percentiles got a 1.7% increase in take home income. For completeness, the last quintile gets a 1.9% boost in take-home income.
Again, the overwhelming majority of the actual cuts are going to the rich, but that's because they pay more taxes to begin with.
Well…..
Of course, as far as the overall impact on the economy goes, the tax cuts did not deliver the outlandish claims that Trump and the Republican Party were promising. An overwhelming majority of economists were saying this when the bill was introduced. However, the stock market did boom after the tax cuts and this was largely driven by the stock buy-backs a lot of companies issued with their tax savings. Your NPR article alludes to this.
Nah I'm good maybe you should stop weirdly ignoring Trump's stupidity especially when it comes to the economy the economy that's seen him take credit for gains that happened because of Obama while predictably not taking credit for the negatives he himself is responsible for.
I'm not ignoring anything. Trump's policies are misguided at best. His administration is a danger for democracy and the rule of law and is doing long term damage to sacred institutions of a functioning government. His policies have also been instrumental in continuing and juicing up the longest stock market bull run in history. Obama deserves a chunk of the credit, and as much as it pains me to say this, so does Trump.
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The most Trump thing of all is when he just abruptly closed the borders. Like not even a heads up, just shooting from the hip style decision making. Then he goes right ahead and contradicts what he just made Pence say like a day earlier. Who runs a country like this? He makes guys like Duterte seem like a stable plan ahead type of guys by comparison
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Fourth, FWIW, the tariffs had a huge impact on the Chinese economy, much larger than what it did on the American one. The tariffs caught them in the middle of an existing manufacturing slump and intensified its effects. Chinese exports globally were hit hard. This is what brought them to the negotiating table.
This is not true, China's losses from it are actually insignificant, Chinese foreign trade actually increased last year. This is because only about 18% China’s GDP is composed of exports. The US has an even lower figure - 11.2%. For comparison, most large economies are above 50, and European countries are generally above 70. In other words, the US and China have the two most isolated major economies in the world. The total Sino-American trade volume is in the hundreds of billions. Both economies exceed 20 trillion dollars.
The whole “war” is an attempt to gain support with minimal repercussions. Both governments are pandering to nationalists, then, when the public demands conciliation, make a show of negotiation before ultimately scuttling them. It’s no surprise that Trump started this conflict just ahead of an election year. It’s an attempt to grab headlines and shore up his nationalist base. Rest assured that if there was any real economic danger, neither Trump nor any other politician would have started the “war”.Edit: This is evident in how moderate both sides have been. Both have "nuclear options" if they really wanted to shut down their enemies. The US could fabricate a Tonkin-style crisis then impose a blockade of China outside the range of most Chinese anti-ship missiles - mostly policing the Strait of Malacca. China, meanwhile, could cut off US firms from access to REM, crashing the American tech sector within months, or sell off its US bonds. The fact that this war has been confined to soybeans and consumer goods tariffs shows that it's more of a skirmish to entertain the public.
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–the longest stock market bull run in history. Obama deserves a chunk of the credit, and as much as it pains me to say this, so does Trump.
I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that it's a terrible thing. The stock buybacks don't create value at all, it's fake. It artificially inflates values and just creates a bubble which has now burst spectacularily. Yes, partly for other reasons, but this bursting of the bubble has been made worse because of it, aside from it being one of the causes.
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I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that it's a terrible thing. The stock buybacks don't create value at all, it's fake. It artificially inflates values and just creates a bubble which has now burst spectacularily. Yes, partly for other reasons, but this bursting of the bubble has been made worse because of it, aside it being one of the causes.
It's not as black and white as that. There are economists who take the stance that a buyback is corporate indulgence and signs of a bubble. Other economists think that stock buybacks indicate corporate confidence in themselves and the economy at large. YMMV. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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There are a lot of people getting paid a lot of money to try and pinpoint these factors. There's a competitive advantage to knowing exactly what affects the market and how. Hell, there are machine learning models that analyse dear leader's tweets and react in real time. So yeah, not as much of a smoke and mirrors show as you're portraying it to be.
And yet it remains a soft science all the same, with massive factors coming down to unpredictable human elements.
Let me just say an economist who doesn't acknowledge this? Is the last person to listen to about how things work. -
@Monkey:
And yet it remains a soft science all the same, with massive factors coming down to unpredictable human elements.
Let me just say an economist who doesn't acknowledge this? Is the last person to listen to about how things work.economics isn't about predicting the stock market, also economics has more rigor than many hard sciences. it makes medicine look like a joke.
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Dick measuring majors never ends up well
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I'm not ignoring anything. Trump's policies are misguided at best. His administration is a danger for democracy and the rule of law and is doing long term damage to sacred institutions of a functioning government. His policies have also been instrumental in continuing and juicing up the longest stock market bull run in history. Obama deserves a chunk of the credit, and as much as it pains me to say this, so does Trump.
He also deserves the blame for a couple of the times it's dipped and when/if the economy craters because of it.
Did you completely miss the trade deal the two parties signed late last year and what the terms of that deal were?
Does it really matter considering the present circumstances. And as already mentioned a lot of money was pissed away because of this idiocy?
It was not a failure. Mexico agreed to house people seeking asylum until the US asylum court could get to their cases. The also agreed to have stricter border control on their southern border. These are policy wins for the president.
Shitty policy that ultimately doesn't address the issue of immigration reform which Republicans for years have sent mixed signals nor washes away Trump's and his administration ugly rhetoric on immigrants that preceded and has followed that but okay.
Again, the overwhelming majority of the actual cuts are going to the rich, but that's because they pay more taxes to begin with.
So much more that Trump and Republicans wanted to lower the rate for them for what it was under Obama.
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Just here for my daily announcement of: Fuck the racist-in-chief, Trump.
Here you go:
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2020/03/12/day-1148/
Day 1148: Canceled.
1/ Trump banned foreign visitors from most of Europe for 30-days in an effort to curb the growing COVID-19 pandemic. Trump blamed European and Chinese travelers for bringing the “foreign virus” to the U.S., while accusing the European Union of “[failing] to take the same precautions” the U.S. had implemented to contain the coronavirus outbreak. The ban, which begins Friday at midnight, does not apply to the United Kingdom or to U.S. citizens, and there are waivers under multiple circumstances. Reading from a prepared script, Trump incorrectly described his own policy, saying that the travel restrictions would impact a “tremendous amount” of trade and cargo. The White House later clarified that the ban would not include cargo. Trump urged Americans to heed the CDC’s guidelines for Americans to protect themselves and others from the spread of the virus – instructions he has repeatedly contradicted, ignored, or downplayed over the last few weeks – and claimed the government was moving “very quickly” to fix a chronic shortage of coronavirus test kits. Trump, however, provided no specifics about how many Americans would be able to be tested, and when and where those tests could occur. (Washington Post / New York Times / Politico / CNN / ABC News / The Intercept)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/11/trump-oval-office-coronavirus-address-126121
The U.S. did not coordinate or notify the European Union before Trump announced the travel restrictions. The European Union also condemned Trump’s decision to ban travelers from most of Europe visiting the U.S., saying “The coronavirus is a global crisis, not limited to any continent and it requires cooperation rather than unilateral action.” (NBC News / Politico / Reuters / Al Jazeera)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-reaction-idUSKBN20Z0F7
Trump’s European travel restrictions exempt nations where his three golf courses are located. Trump has two properties in the United Kingdom – Trump Turnberry and Trump International Golf Links in Scotland – plus another resort in Doonbeg, Ireland. (Politico / Business Insider)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/12/trump-coronavirus-travel-europe-resorts-126808
Trump suggested that it’s a “possibility” he could impose travel restrictions within the U.S. if certain areas get “too hot.” Trump also defended his restrictions on travel from Europe, saying that he didn’t consult with E.U. leaders because he had to “move quickly.” (NBC News / Politico)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/12/mike-pence-trump-europe-travel-ban-details-126904
EXPLAINED: Trump’s travel ban. (Politico)
https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-donald-trump-europe-travel-ban-explained/
2/ The CDC tested 77 total people for coronavirus on Monday and Tuesday. The total number of people tested for the coronavirus in the U.S. by the CDC as of Wednesday morning was 1,784. Meanwhile, 7,617 people have been tested by state laboratories. The U.S. has 1,300 confirmed cases, with 38 deaths. Lawmakers, meanwhile, are “frustrated” with the CDC’s “struggle to give a really strong answer” about why the U.S. hasn’t been able to duplicate the testing being used in other countries like South Korea. (Yahoo News / CNN)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/politics/congress-outrage-testing-covid-19/index.html
3/ Trump met with a Brazilian official at Mar-a-Lago who later tested positive for coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten, communications secretary to Jair Bolsonaro, accompanied the Brazilian president on the visit to Florida and dined with Trump and other U.S. official on Saturday. The White House said Trump will not be tested for the coronavirus because “Both the president and vice president had almost no interactions with the individual who tested positive.” Sen. Rick Scott and Sen. Lindsey Graham, however, decided to self-quarantine due to possible contact with Wajngarten. Two days ago, Bolsonaro said the danger posed by coronavirus “is not all the mainstream media makes it out to be.” Trump, meanwhile, told reporters: “Let’s put it this way: I’m not concerned.” (NPR / New York Times / Wall Street Journal / CNN / The Guardian)
A Senate staffer tested positive for COVID-19. Sen. Maria Cantwell’s office announced that the staffer has been placed in isolation and that the office will be closed for the rest of the week to undergo cleaning. The case marks the first known incident of a congressional staffer contracting the virus. (The Hill)
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/487162-senate-staffer-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
Satellite images show new sections of graveyards in Iran the size of a football field near where coronavirus infections emerged. While Iran’s government has not released an official death toll for Qom, the spiritual center of Iran’s ruling Shiite clerics, Iranian authorities began digging a pair of trenches for victims days after the government disclosed the initial outbreak. Iran’s Health Ministry officially said that 429 people have died from COVID-19 in the country. (Washington Post)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/iran-coronavirus-outbreak-graves/
4/ Trump is expected to sign a limited federal disaster declaration to cover small business loans, paychecks for hourly workers, and delay tax bills in an effort to combat the coronavirus pandemic. Trump, however, is reportedly concerned that going further would undermine his narrative that the coronavirus is similar to the seasonal flu and further hurt the markets. (CNN / Politico / Politico)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/politics/trump-disaster-declaration/
Mike Pence said people are using “irresponsible rhetoric” to downplay the seriousness of the U.S. coronavirus outbreak. On Monday, Trump said the “fake news media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything to inflame the coronavirus situation.” (NBC News)
Trump attacked Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi nine hours after calling on lawmakers to “put politics aside [and] stop the partisanship.” (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/politics/trump-coronavirus.html
5/ The Trump administration and House Democrats are negotiating a bipartisan deal on an economic coronavirus relief package, which would provide food security assistance, paid sick leave, free coronavirus testing, and unemployment benefits for people affected by the spread of the pandemic. The House hopes to vote on the package Thursday and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said he would cancel next week’s recess to advance “bipartisan legislation to continue combating the coronavirus and keep our economy strong.” Trump, however, objected to what he called Democratic “goodies” in the bill – specifically an increase in federal funding for Medicaid and changes to what that White House said could provide money for abortions. Republicans are opposed to the paid sick leave proposal, complaining that Democrats are using the pandemic to accomplish long-held domestic priorities, which McConnell called an “ideological wish list.” (Washington Post / Politico / Bloomberg / New York Times / New York Times / Reuters)
6/ The S&P 500 and Dow both had their worst day since the 1987 Black Monday market crash. The S&P 500 and Nasdaq also joined the Dow in bear market territory — a decline of 20% from the most recent highs. Trading was halted twice after triggering thresholds in premarket trading and immediately after the opening bell. Trump, meanwhile, predicted that the markets are “going to all bounce back and it’s going to bounce back very big.” (Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal / CNBC / NBC News / New York Times / Washington Post)
Trump – in an explosive tirade – reportedly pressured Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to encourage the Federal Reserve to do more to stimulate the economy. Trump complained that Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell is damaging his presidency and should never have been appointed. Mnuchin encouraged Trump to nominate Powell in 2017. (Washington Post)
The Federal Reserve said it would inject more than $1.5 trillion of temporary liquidity into the financial system. The action is not intended to stimulate the economy, but ensure proper functioning of the market for Treasuries, which influences all other credit markets. (Wall Street Journal / Politico / CNBC)
7/ The Pentagon is waiting on Trump to decide how to respond to an attack in Iraq that killed two U.S. troops. Iranian-backed militia groups fired about 30 rockets in Iraq, with about 12 to 18 hitting a base north of Baghdad. (Washington Post)
Canceled.
Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered Californians to cancel or postpone gatherings of 250 or more people statewide through the end of March. California now has 198 confirmed coronavirus case. (The Mercury News / Los Angeles Times)
Gov. Andrew Cuomo banned gatherings of 500 or more people across New York state. New York now has 328 confirmed cases of the coronavirus. (New York Times / CNBC)
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio declared a state of emergency, saying large venues like Barclays Center and Madison Square Garden will likely be closed for months. (CNBC)
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/new-york-city-declares-state-of-emergency.html
All Broadway theaters in New York City are closed. The Broadway League announced that the ban will be in effect until Sunday, April 12. (Time Out / Variety)
Schools in Ohio are closed for at least three weeks. Gov. Mike DeWine said the “extended spring break” will begin Monday. (Cleveland.com)
Washington State closed all K-12 schools, public and private, in the Seattle metro area until April 24. Across the King, Snohomish, and Pierce counties, nearly 563,600 students attend public or charter schools. Roughly 216,700 of them qualify for subsidized meals. (Seattle Times)
Maryland closed all public schools through March 27 and banned gatherings of more than 250 people. (NBC Washington)
France closed all schools and universities until further notice. (Washington Post)
Disneyland is closed until the end of the month. Its the fourth time in history that Disneyland has fully suspended operations. The park previously closed following the Sept. 11 attacks, the morning after JFK’s assassination, and the Northridge earthquake. (Variety)
https://variety.com/2020/biz/news/disney-theme-park-closed-coronavirus-1203531795/
The NBA suspended its season “until further notice” after two Utah Jazz players tested positive for the coronavirus. Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell both tested positive. (ESPN / Bleacher Report)
The NCAA canceled the March Madness basketball tournaments. The ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, American, Atlantic 10, Conference USA, MAC, America East, Big Sky, and WAC also all canceled their conference basketball tournaments. Kansas and Duke banned all athletic travel indefinitely. (CNBC / ESPN / Washington Post)
The NHL suspended its season with 189 games and three and a half weeks remaining in the regular season. (ESPN)
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/28891430/sources-nhl-suspending-play-immediately-due-virus
MLS suspended its season for 30 days and the U.S. Soccer Federation canceled scheduled friendlies. (ESPN)
MLB suspended the remainder of spring training. MLB was scheduled to open its season on March 26, with all 30 teams in action. (ESPN)
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28892315/sources-mlb-expected-suspend-operations
The PGA Tour will continue to play but fans will not be allowed to attend the events through April 5. (Bleacher Report)
The NFL said it has “no plans to move the start of the league year,” which starts March 18. (ESPN)
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28891831/nfl-not-delaying-start-league-year-coronavirus
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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4/ Trump is expected to sign a limited federal disaster declaration to cover small business loans, paychecks for hourly workers, and delay tax bills in an effort to combat the coronavirus pandemic. Trump, however, is reportedly concerned that going further would undermine his narrative that the coronavirus is similar to the seasonal flu and further hurt the markets. (CNN / Politico / Politico)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/politics/trump-disaster-declaration/
Mike Pence said people are using “irresponsible rhetoric” to downplay the seriousness of the U.S. coronavirus outbreak. On Monday, Trump said the “fake news media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything to inflame the coronavirus situation.” (NBC News)
Trump attacked Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi nine hours after calling on lawmakers to “put politics aside [and] stop the partisanship.” (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/politics/trump-coronavirus.html
FUCKING. STUPID. TWIT.
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FUCKING. STUPID. TWIT.
Sometimes, with stories of him asking for bipartisanship then cursing out Democrats, I have to wonder if Trump is just a hypocrite or is he basically this one guy from a meme:
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What's also frustrating is that during this pandemic a lot of reporters are asking questions related to public safety, and Trump is just brushing it off with his "fake news" taunts. It's massively frustrating cause these are really, really important questions, and the media bashing isn't helping here. It's just a weak escape from a hard question, and I hate it.
For reference, David Pakman has a clip of it starting at 0:50
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3/ Trump met with a Brazilian official at Mar-a-Lago who later tested positive for coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten, communications secretary to Jair Bolsonaro, accompanied the Brazilian president on the visit to Florida and dined with Trump and other U.S. official on Saturday. The White House said Trump will not be tested for the coronavirus because “Both the president and vice president had almost no interactions with the individual who tested positive.” Sen. Rick Scott and Sen. Lindsey Graham, however, decided to self-quarantine due to possible contact with Wajngarten. Two days ago, Bolsonaro said the danger posed by coronavirus “is not all the mainstream media makes it out to be.” Trump, meanwhile, told reporters: “Let’s put it this way: I’m not concerned.” (NPR / New York Times / Wall Street Journal / CNN / The Guardian)
hahahahah Bozonaro himself is awaiting the test results, he gave a pronouncement on the net as this:
p.s. : the animal on the right is our incumbent clown
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@Monkey:
And yet it remains a soft science all the same, with massive factors coming down to unpredictable human elements.
Let me just say an economist who doesn't acknowledge this? Is the last person to listen to about how things work.Funnily enough, one of our greatest economists down here, Agustin Carstens, once said; if you up to study economy, you better like fairy tales, 'cause that's whats you're going to be working with most of the time.
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@Monkey:
And yet it remains a soft science all the same, with massive factors coming down to unpredictable human elements.
The stock market is not the economy. Some of the post-facto analysis of why it moves is fuzzy, which is why at no point did I say that 31% of the drop is attributable to the productivity loss caused by factory shutdowns. That said, a huge portion of it is attributable to deterministic factors. A large portion of trading happens algorithmically, and most of these are fairly deterministic.
He also deserves the blame for a couple of the times it's dipped and when/if the economy craters because of it.
Sure, whatever floats your boat.
Does it really matter considering the present circumstances.
It absolutely does. The terms will be renegotiated, but the current terms form a really good starting point to negotiate from.
And as already mentioned a lot of money was pissed away because of this idiocy?
Which will all be made back under a future trade deal. The IP protections alone will benefit American companies majorly in the long run. That is, of course if the president doesn't wake up on the wrong side of the bed and tank the whole thing in a tweet.
Shitty policy that ultimately doesn't address the issue of immigration reform which Republicans for years have sent mixed signals nor washes away Trump's and his administration ugly rhetoric on immigrants that preceded and has followed that but okay.
Not arguing about the shittiness of the policy itself, just pointing out that he achieved his stated policy objectives, which were to agree to have Mexico harbour asylum seekers until they get their day in court and implement stricter border control at their southern border.
So much more that Trump and Republicans wanted to lower the rate for them for what it was under Obama.
Not sure what the point is, but sure.
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economics isn't about predicting the stock market, also economics has more rigor than many hard sciences. it makes medicine look like a joke.
Too bad the discussion is about the stock market!
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[https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2020/03/13/day-1149/
[h=1]](https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2020/03/13/day-1149/)Day 1149: "Full-scale disaster."[/h]
1/ Trump declared a national emergency – which he described as “two very big words” – to combat the coronavirus pandemic. Trump then shook hands with members of his team. The declaration will “open up access” to $50 billion in emergency funding, lift restrictions on doctors and hospitals to “do as they want,” and waive student loan interest. Trump also announced plans for a large-scale drive-thru protocol for testing for the virus, but said “We don’t want everybody taking this test. It’s totally unnecessary.” Trump then blamed existing rules set by prior administrations for limiting options, saying “I don’t take responsibility at all” for the lack of available testing. The administration expects 1.4 million additional tests to be available next week and five million within a month. When asked about the closure of the White House’s pandemic response team in 2018, Trump called it a “nasty question” and denied firing the team. Trump also announced that the government would buy large quantities of crude oil for the nation’s strategic reserve while oil prices are low. (Politico / NBC News / New York Times / Washington Post / Bloomberg / CNN / Wall Street Journal / The Guardian)- Trump criticized the CDC for its response to COVID-19 and blamed the Obama administration for the situation. In a pair of tweets, Trump — without evidence — claimed that the CDC knew its testing system for large-scale pandemics was “inadequate” and “did nothing about it.” Trump also called the Obama administration’s response to the Swine flu pandemic a “full scale disaster” and said Obama “made changes that only complicated things further.” (NBC News / New York Times)
- The CDC’s worst-case scenario projects that as many as 200,000 to 1.7 million Americans could die from coronavirus. Between 160 million and 214 million people in the U.S. could be infected during the pandemic, which could last months to over a year. And, 2.4 million to 21 million people in the U.S. could require hospitalization. The U.S. has about 925,000 staffed hospital beds. (New York Times / USA Today)
- [QUOTABLE] “The federal response has been a fiasco.” – Dr. Ashish Jha of the Harvard Global Health Institute (PBS)
- [QUOTABLE] “The system is not really geared to what we need right now. That is a failing. Let’s admit it.” – Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NBC News)
- [ANALYSIS] Trump as Bystander. School superintendents, sports commissioners, college presidents, governors, and business owners have taken it upon themselves to shut down much of American life without clear guidance from Trump. (New York Times)
- [OPINION] Trump failed the defining test of his presidency. He attempted to calm the nation, provide clarity, and offer a clear plan of action, but accomplished none of those things in his Oval Office address on the coronavirus. (The Atlantic)
2/ The Trump administration blocked states from using Medicaid to expand medical services as part the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. During major disasters, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services has traditionally loosened Medicaid rules, allowing states to quickly sign up poor patients for coverage so they can get necessary testing or treatment. Until now, Trump has been reluctant to declare a national emergency, as previous administrations did after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Hurricane Katrina, and the H1N1 flu, because it would contradict with his repeated efforts to downplay the seriousness of the pandemic. (Los Angeles Times)
- [REPORT] The White House knew of coronavirus’ “major threat,” but infighting at the Department of Health and Human Services and the need to flatter Trump impeded the response to the coronavirus. (NPR)
- [REPORT] A former homeland security adviser repeatedly tried to be patched through to Trump or Mike Pence to warn them how dire the pandemic really is, but was blocked by White House officials. (New York Times)
3/ The FDA granted emergency approval for a new coronavirus test that works about 10 times faster. The test was developed by Roche and is designed to run on the company’s automated machines, which are already installed in more than 100 laboratories across the U.S. It will be available immediately and labs will be able to process as many as 4,000 samples a day. (Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal / TechCrunch / New York Times / Washington Post)
- Jared Kushner tapped his brother’s wife’s father to crowd-source coronavirus response recommendations from physicians on Facebook. Kurt Kloss sent Kushner 12 recommendations after consulting the Facebook group, EM Docs, which has nearly 22,000 members. (Politico)
- The Australian minister for home affairs tested positive for coronavirus days after meeting with Attorney General William Barr, Ivanka Trump, and Kellyanne Conway. (CNN / New York Times)
- Miami’s mayor tested positive for COVID-19 four days after attending an event with a Brazilian government official who later tested positive for the virus. Mayor Francis Suarez was one of several politicians, including Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez, Sen. Rick Scott and Trump, who interacted with Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro and his staff last week. Fabio Wajngarten, press secretary to Bolsonaro, tested positive. (Miami Herald)
- A second person who visited Mar-a-Lago last weekend tested positive for coronavirus, according to emails from Republican party officials to other guests who were present. Trump was has been near two people in two days who have since been diagnosed as infected. (Washington Post)
- Trump said he will “most likely” get tested for coronavirus after all, but insisted that it was not because of who he’s recently has been in contact with. “I think I will do it anyway,” Trump said. “Fairly soon.” (Washington Post / CNN)
4/ Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the House would vote on a multi-billion dollar aid package to address the coronavirus pandemic, which would guarantee sick pay for workers, boost food programs for children, families and seniors, provide free testing, and more. Pelosi implored the Trump administration and congressional Republicans to back the effort and “put families first” after days of negotiations with Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin. Trump, however, accused Democrats of “not doing what’s right for the country” because the bill would, among other things, provide paid leave to Americans who can’t work during the pandemic, but not include his demand for a payroll tax cut. Top Republicans haven’t committed their support, saying they want assurances that Trump will support the agreement. (Politico / Associated Press / Wall Street Journal / New York Times / CNN)
- The Trump administration plans to move ahead with enacting strict work requirements on people who use food stamps. Starting April 1, people without a disability or children are required to work 20 hours per week to qualify for SNAP. The White House projects 700,000 people would lose SNAP eligibility as a result. (BuzzFeed News)
[h=3]Notables.[/h]
- Louisiana postponed its presidential primary, which was originally scheduled for April 4. The election will be delayed until June 20. (Politico / Wall Street Journal)
- Los Angeles shut down the nation’s second-largest school system. San Diego Unified School District will also shut down. (Los Angeles Times)
- In New York City, Mayor Bill de Blasio and Gov. Andrew Cuomo have (so far) resisted closing the school system – the nation’s largest school system. (New York Times)
- The acting director of national intelligence ordered a department-wide hiring freeze and review of the agency’s mission and personnel. Some current and former officials questioned why Richard Grenell ordered the large-scale reorganization, which some of his predecessors had considered but set aside, even though his role is temporary. An assistant director of national intelligence said the move was “not an effort to purge,” but simply an attempt to “make sure scarce intelligence community resources are used in the best way possible.” Trump recently tapped Rep. John Ratcliffe to be his fifth DNI, but the Senate has yet to set a date for Ratcliffe’s confirmation hearing. (New York Times)
- The U.S. carried out airstrikes against multiple Iranian-backed militia sites in Iraq in response to a rocket attack on a base where coalition forces are located. (CNN)
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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- Trump criticized the CDC for its response to COVID-19 and blamed the Obama administration for the situation. In a pair of tweets, Trump — without evidence — claimed that the CDC knew its testing system for large-scale pandemics was “inadequate” and “did nothing about it.” Trump also called the Obama administration’s response to the Swine flu pandemic a “full scale disaster” and said Obama “made changes that only complicated things further.” (NBC News / New York Times)
You keep telling yourself that, Trumpy.
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I love how Trump went from saying this was a hoax by the democrats to declaring it a national emergency
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hahahahah Bozonaro himself is awaiting the test results, he gave a pronouncement on the net as this:
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/7QC1yUC.jpg[/qimg]
p.s. : the animal on the right is our incumbent clownSo what's actually happening with Bolsonaro? I been hearing he came up positive, negative, he's redoing a test.
Its like Shrödinger's Coronavirus, he has it but also doesn't have it!
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So what's actually happening with Bolsonaro? I been hearing he came up positive, negative, he's redoing a test.
Its like Shrödinger's Coronavirus, he has it but also doesn't have it!
Apparently he jumped the gun and said to the media he had it, did the preliminary test and came back negative, as the virus has an incubation period of around a week he is in "isolation" and waiting to redo the test by that time. Fingers crossed he has it so the changes of the orange trash bag contracting it increase.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You keep telling yourself that, Trumpy.
Donny boy lives in his on world. And if you don't believe him you are a big meanie.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I love how Trump went from saying this was a hoax by the democrats to declaring it a national emergency
Now he has the chance to said the hoax as in fact a conspiracy started by Obama and the liberals.
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Politics 101: Everytime you fuck up, blame it on something else.
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It would be pretty rad if Bolsonaro died of Coronavirus.
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@Monkey:
It would be pretty rad if Bolsonaro died of Coronavirus.
We have a saying in Brazil, a bad jar doesn't break. It will probably don't happen, hell Sarney is still alive after all.
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Trump tried to buy out and relocate a German company researching a potential vaccine for corona so that if the research bears fruit the vaccine could be made exclusively for Americans. Truly a class act
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This is a remarkable form of selfishness, but at the moment many governments do not cover themselves with glory. Germany recently got into conflict with Switzerland because we wanted to prevent the transport of a truckload of protective masks to Switzerland, knowing that Switzerland has no production of its own in this area. After diplomatic complaints and the intervention of the EU that this is unacceptable, this has been resolved. Unfortunately, the selfishness between and even within countries is unbearably high at the moment. :-(
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There's exactly 0% chance that move would have been purely for the benefit of the American people and 100% that any vaccine would have been sold at a ridiculously high markup.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Speaking of 0%, the Fed dropped interest rates to basically that, threw $700 billion more out the window, and tomorrow is probably still going to be a bloodbath; futures have dropped enough to stop trading.
For what the Federal Government has pumped into the stock market in the past five days, they could have given every single person in the United States almost seven thousand dollars. Not household, individual people.
Complicating things since 2009.
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There's exactly 0% chance that move would have been purely for the benefit of the American people and 100% that any vaccine would have been sold at a ridiculously high markup.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Speaking of 0%, the Fed dropped interest rates to basically that, threw $700 billion more out the window, and tomorrow is probably still going to be a bloodbath; futures have dropped enough to stop trading.
For what the Federal Government has pumped into the stock market in the past five days, they could have given every single person in the United States almost seven thousand dollars. Not household, individual people.
We can't go giving ordinary people thousands of dollars for nothing these people haven’t pulled themselves up by their bootstraps enough.
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For what the Federal Government has pumped into the stock market in the past five days, they could have given every single person in the United States almost seven thousand dollars. Not household, individual people.
ANd the first day when they dropped in a trillion and a half for a whopping 20 minute bump covered the cost of the ISS, Apollo, the Interstate Highway System, ending homelessness in the US, ending world hunger for a decade.
The NEXT day when they wasted another 500 biliion to try and bump up the banks could have covered
Free school lunch- $20B (not included in the ending world hunger for a decade package)
Free universal childcare - $150B
Free college - $80B
with another $250B to spare for I dunno, investing in electric cars and solar panels and planting trees.But yes, giving everyone 7000$ and telling them to stay home for the next month and not worry about their bills would probably have gone a lot further towards stabilizing the markets and reassuring people and eased most of the crisis panic.
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For what the Federal Government has pumped into the stock market in the past five days, they could have given every single person in the United States almost seven thousand dollars. Not household, individual people.
ANd the first day when they dropped in a trillion and a half for a whopping 20 minute bump covered the cost of the ISS, Apollo, the Interstate Highway System, ending homelessness in the US, ending world hunger for a decade.
The NEXT day when they wasted another 500 biliion to try and bump up the banks could have covered
Free school lunch- $20B (not included in the ending world hunger for a decade package)
Free universal childcare - $150B
Free college - $80B
with another $250B to spare for I dunno, investing in electric cars and solar panels and planting trees.But yes, giving everyone 7000$ and telling them to stay home for the next month and not worry about their bills would probably have gone a lot further towards stabilizing the markets and reassuring people and eased most of the crisis panic.
all of this is wrong read this: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/federal-reserve-trying-stop-financial-crisis/607987/
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all of this is wrong
No, it's not. Most of the money in the world is completely imaginary, since we went off the Gold standard decades ago.
Most of the money deposited in banks is not actually kept by the bank. It's loaned out. When this happens, more money is now available to be spent, which has the effect of increasing the money supply of the country. For example, let’s say Person A deposits $100 in a bank, which means he has $100 he can spend. In accordance with Federal Reserve regulations, the bank is allowed to loan up to 90% of this money to someone else, say, Person B.
Once Person B has $90 in his bank account, this makes a total of $190 available to be spent. But his bank can loan up to $81 (90% of $90) to someone else. Now a total of $271 is available to be spent. And so on. In this way, the dollars that are deposited in a bank will, eventually, end up creating many more dollars in circulating money.
But that means a LOT of the money that exists, exists entirely on good faith. This generally isn't a problem, unless lots of people want to take out all their money all at once suddenly, as seen in the banking crisis documentary, Mary Poppins.
What the Fed is doing is basically saying "here's more imaginary money as a very short term loan with no interest rate." As a result, The Fed is basically, able to make temporary money from thin air by balancing securities. Aside from playing with existing imaginary money, it's also able to literally make cash that only exists to circulate once and then instantly burn it on the record books. They delete it quickly to try and avoid inflation, but they still created it to cover an initial cost.
The method is there for them to fund basically anything they want at little to no cost to anyone. And while they can't and shouldn't do that for literally everything and the new money can't stay in the wild too long (As doing so constantly would cause mass inflation,) it does prove the lie that "we can't afford to do any of these other things."
There's a way to make 1.5 trillion dollars temporarily in order to get things done, and they're demonstrating that now. It is and always has been in their power, so any arguments of "we can't afford to do important thing X" are BS.
You don't go and fund everything this way because that will break things, you do need to keep tax flow going, but once in a while you can create some money to aid in taking care of something important.
Also aside from that, there's the whole "we spend 700 billion on the military budget annually without blinking, but we can't spend a fraction of that to fix something actually important?
Not saying "yes, use 1.5 trillion to fund all these social programs, free money all the time" because it would be irresponsible to generate that much out of nowhere consistently, just "hey, we can solve world hunger… if we want to." Like, once every few years we can make say, 50-200 billion to bankroll a big socially important project BECAUSE its important without truly caring about the initial price tag and then slowly roll the ongoing cost into the budget.
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No, it's not. Most of the money in the world is completely imaginary, since we went off the Gold standard decades ago.
Most of the money deposited in banks is not actually kept by the bank. In fact, it is loaned out. When this happens, more money is now available to be spent, which has the effect of increasing the money supply of the country. For example, let’s say Person A deposits $100 in a bank, which means he has $100 he can spend. In accordance with Federal Reserve regulations, the bank is allowed to loan up to 90% of this money to someone else, say, Person B.
Once Person B has $90 in his bank account, this makes a total of $190 available to be spent. But his bank can loan up to $81 (90% of $90) to someone else. Now a total of $271 is available to be spent. And so on. In this way, the dollars that are deposited in a bank will, eventually, end up creating many more dollars in circulating money.
But that means a LOT of the money that exists, exists entirely on good faith.
As a result, The Fed is basically, able to make temporary money from thin air by balancing securities. It's also able to literally make cash that only exists to circulate once and then instantly burn it.
The method is there for them to fund basically anything they want at little to no cost to anyone. And while they can't and shouldn't do that for literally everything (As doing so constantly would cause mass inflation,) it does prove the lie that "we can't afford to do any of these other things."
There's a way to make 1.5 trillion dollars temporarily in order to get things done, and they're demonstrating that now. It is and always has been in their power, so any arguments of "we can't afford to do important thing X" are BS.
You don't go and fund everything this way because that will break things, you do need to keep tax flow going, but once in a while you can create some money to aid in taking care of something important.
Also aside from that, there's the whole "we spend 700 billion on the military budget annually without blinking, but we can't spend a fraction of that to fix something important?
Not saying "yes, use 1.5 trillion to fund all these social programs, free money all the time" just "hey, we can solve world hunger… if we want to."
this is complete nonsense and i don't have the patience to argue with an MMTier right now, so just reread the article i posted.
side note: the military budget should be increased
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That is literally how banks work. ANd how the fed works. Most of our money is make believe, very little if it is actually based on anything physical anymore since Nixon went off the gold standard in 71.
The Fed buys Treasurys and other securities from banks and replaces them with credit. All central banks have this unique ability to create credit out of thin air. That's just like printing money. … it paid them by adding the same amount to their credit on their books.
It's all book keeping and juggling imaginary fund A with imaginary fund B. But its still just book keeping.
Its also why we had the housing crash in 2008, because tldr version, the bookkeeping got greedy and intentionally mislabelled what they were loaning into so that toxic investments were presented as safe ones.
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Why should the military budget be increased?
