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    Chapter 871: "Go Caesar!"

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    • R
      RadioactiveChimp @GeeBi
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      Wow, i never said u were calling Sanji the weakest in the OP verse. Ur reading comprehension of my post is as good as ur reading of the manga no wonder u think sanji is a punching bag :happy:

      @GeeBi:

      Sanji fought 1 on 1 against Vergo and his legs got broken (Sanji then said something like "Ughhh , if the match kept continuing ,then …" ).....Current Sanji is a dumb pervert who can be beaten in 3 pages.

      This was the piece i called brainless of you Geeboy. Either that or trolling. Sanji's legs were never broken, at most fractured who knows where the fight could have headed. Crocodile vs Luffy started off bad and ended just fine.

      The only person who really put Sanji in fodder state all Post Time Skip is Doffy. The same person who sliced Laws arm off and had luffy pass out for 3 days to recoup. This chapter everybody got k.o.d i'm not sure if you noticed that in ur first read through. Still I appreciate the point u bring up even if it is lacking in factual canon back up

      And Sanji/Nico are agruably the smartest of the crew. Sanji is a pervert yes, but highly intelligent.

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      • Don Quichotte De Flamingo
        Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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        Even when most of our heroes are down, after the cake castle is fallen down, i assume the guys inside Bege will be able to gather up all allies to realize the escape….even when Oda won´t male it THAT easy...some surprise has to come for the anniversary.
        Non the less, Luffy and co manage to escape, but i can see the BM pirates will return, maybe as possible antagonists for Elbaf?!
        A fight against BM, Katakuri, Smoothie and Mont DÓr has to happen someday, otherwise so much awesome fight potential wasted^^

        Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_

        IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley

        UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan

        DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

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          allbluebro @RadioactiveChimp
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          @RadioactiveChimp:

          Are u kidding -___-

          Luffy and Sanji chemistry is PERFECTLY FINE

          Was Luffy/Nami chemistry destroyed when Nami stole their ship and took it to arlong?
          Was Luffy/Usopp chemistry destroyed when they battled over the Merry?
          Was Luffy/Zoro chemistry destroyed when Zoro threatened with a drawn sword & grabbing luffys face to leave if his captain went to get Usopp back?
          Was Luffy/Nico relationship destroyed when Robin went AWOL in the middle of a mission to get a new ship?

          There are NECESSARY skirmishes on the crew. And the crew chemistry is always BETTER for it.

          Also did you just want Sanji to NOT leave for WCI? Even though the true father who saved his life was about to die? Owner Zeff gave sanji ALL food he had and only kept a bag of treasure for himself and he ate his own leg so that sanji and himself could survive. Sanji is just supposed to shrug that off as whatever if they are threatened?

          Sanji has always been a more level headed and strategic character than say Usopp. It's like he just plum forgot about being in the crew and achieving his dreams and became a groveling shell of himself. This is worse than when spiderman went all emo in the third movie with venom. So you think Luffy and Sanji's relationship is better right now? If it is in any shape or form "BETTER" it's no thanks to Sanji. Hell even a chapter or two ago he was bossing Luffy around telling him to stay inside of Bege that only he is going out. Doing all this out of character shit just further hurts Sanji's character in the grander scheme of things. Zeff is an old man that lived a long fulfilling life. Sanji should have been intelligent enough to recognize that Zeff would have rather died than have Sanji throw his life and dreams away Zeff already proved that once. Sanji also knew Luffy and crew would go after him HE KNEW, again another situation where it's like he suddenly forgot about the past as a SH. Being self sacrificing is one thing, being a liability in life or death situations is another.
          Usopp and Luffy fight was emotional as hell and Usopp learned a huge lesson from it. Here we see Sanji still acting like a stubborn mule right after the out lash. Not to mention beating the crap out of Luffy on enemy territory seems pretty dangerous to me for Luffy's well being. Zorro was just being uncle Z and showing Luffy how to be a leader, Sanji wasn't trying to teach Luffy anything he was only thinking about himself and Zeff's well being not the crews'. Nami get's a pass because she was new to the crew and she is a thief by nature. Robin situation doesn't even count.

          If Sanji has no offensive power then he is going to get knocked off the monster trio at this point. He can avoid and dodge very well (probably up there with the best of them) and he can parry attacks but where is his offense ?

          –- Update From New Post Merge ---

          @RadioactiveChimp:

          Wow, i never said u were calling Sanji the weakest in the OP verse. Ur reading comprehension of my post is as good as ur reading of the manga no wonder u think sanji is a punching bag :happy:

          This was the piece i called brainless of you Geeboy. Either that or trolling. Sanji's legs were never broken, at most fractured who knows where the fight could have headed. Crocodile vs Luffy started off bad and ended just fine.

          The only person who really put Sanji in fodder state all Post Time Skip is Doffy. The same person who sliced Laws arm off and had luffy pass out for 3 days to recoup. This chapter everybody got k.o.d i'm not sure if you noticed that in ur first read through. Still I appreciate the point u bring up even if it is lacking in factual canon back up

          And Sanji/Nico are agruably the smartest of the crew. Sanji is a pervert yes, but highly intelligent.

          A fractured bone and a broken bone are interchangeable and refer to the same thing. Sanji's #1 weapons are his legs which got cracked bro, after the time-skip against another mans legs….that's bad.
          I actually thought his clash with Doffy was one of the most impressive things I've seen him do ever but then again I think I have Doffy at a much higher power level in my mind than most people seem to consider him. I think Doffy was between Yonkou commander and Yonkou being closer to Yonkou strength than the former.

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            MrBits @allbluebro
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            @allbluebro:

            […]Zeff is an old man that lived a long fulfilling life. Sanji should have been intelligent enough to recognize that Zeff would have rather died than have Sanji throw his life and dreams away Zeff already proved that once […]

            Being intelligent doesn't mean someone can't be emotional, especially if it involves the safety of the person you care about the most.

            The rest is fine even if I don't agree.

            Originally Posted by MrBits

            Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?

            Originally Posted by AlphaBro

            okay let's bet . Would love to see your losing face next week !

            An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.

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              Darkestsith6 @KageKageKing
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              @KageKageKing:

              JB version in case it wasn't posted 4 hours ago for some reason:https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/871/page/1

              So in their version, they have BM refer to Kaidou as "that" (full line is "that" isn't something you can defeat)

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                allbluebro @MrBits
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                @MrBits:

                Being intelligent doesn't mean someone can't be emotional, especially if it involves the safety of the person you care about the most.

                The rest is fine even if I don't agree.

                When you're on a pirate crew or "team" making emotional decisions that will likely get your "team" killed isn't what I would consider an intelligent decision.
                But I see your point, and for the record I think Sanji is intelligent and a strategic character hence why I feel like he has been so out of character lately.

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                • Johnny B. Decent
                  Johnny B. Decent @allbluebro
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                  @allbluebro:

                  When you're on a pirate crew or "team" making selfish emotional decisions that will likely get your "team" killed isn't what I would consider an intelligent decision.

                  Of course, the captain of said crew isn't known for making intelligent decisions, either.

                  As Oda once said, "they're a crew of idiots".

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                    RadioactiveChimp @allbluebro
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                    @allbluebro:

                    Sanji also knew Luffy and crew would go after him HE KNEW, again another situation where it's like he suddenly forgot about the past as a SH. Being self sacrificing is one thing, being a liability in life or death situations is another.

                    …..

                    Usopp and Luffy fight was emotional as hell and Usopp learned a huge lesson from it. Here we see Sanji still acting like a stubborn mule right after the out lash. Not to mention beating the crap out of Luffy on enemy territory seems pretty dangerous to me for Luffy's well being. Zorro was just being uncle Z and showing Luffy how to be a leader, Sanji wasn't trying to teach Luffy anything he was only thinking about himself and Zeff's well being not the crews'. Nami get's a pass because she was new to the crew and she is a thief by nature. Robin situation doesn't even count.

                    Wot in tortelini.

                    I think ur a level headed dude too so I respect your opinion although it stands on very shaky reasoning. Shakier than WB at the war my friend.

                    Here is why. You say that Sanji is being SELFISH for looking out for the people at the BARATIE??

                    Was Luffy being selfish in going to Marine Ford solo to save his brother in a moment of life or death?
                    Was Nami being selfish to save her village before Arlong?

                    Sanji is doing the only honorable and noble thing he can do! He is going off to take care of his family and trying not to get the crew involved at the same time. His REAL family. And coincidentally his genetic family too. This is far cry from selfish this is honorable nobility at its finest. Sanji hid his history from the crew this whole time because he didnt want them to get involved. Luffy's stubbornness got them involved

                    Also, he did intend to come back as per the note. I recall Luffy leaving a note in much the same fashion 2 years ago.

                    And stubborn? Did we read the same chapter -_____- Sanji went back to save luffy's ass.

                    And last, how can you just brush off all those other crew mates and forgive them for their traitor instances but Sanji's case is somehow on a pedestal of failure? If your true Mom or Dad were in their 60s and you had maybe an opportunity to save their lives even if it was slim, you wouldnt even try just because they already lived a long life? -______-

                    Sheesh give the guy a break. I wish all OP fans would like open their eyes and realize Sanji is still the great carachter he always was. It's just because he gets shit on by everyone (including Oda as of late) that I defend the guy. He's not even my favorite strawhat, Luffy is by far, but I think everyone on the crew deserves respect.

                    Mad props to Sanji for also being the only strawhat not to weild any sort of a weapon or devil fruit and still holding his own as one of the top fighters of the crew in the new world. Sheesh all it takes is one good fight and suddenly a wave of fans will pretend they always thought he was great :getlost:

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                      allbluebro @RadioactiveChimp
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                      I love me some Sanji I just think as you admit his character isn't getting written all that well lately. His back-backstory wasn't amazing, his character development took a step back as far as I'm concerned and I kind of hope Zoro beats his ass, Oda should have never claimed it was " the year of Sanji" because now every chapter we expect him to have some grand moment, or at last hatch a plan or,save the day and he just doesn't. He caught Nami now he catches Luffy… this is building up to something huge. The next few chapters are going to be HUGE for my boy Sanji. Is "Sanji manages to air walk out of the situation he got them in" really what this is all leading up to?
                      Even the cake theory had Sanji painted as saving the day. Brook the real M.V.P. this arc.

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                      • joekido the Second
                        joekido the Second
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                        Thank christmas that the characters are not at the god level after the timeskip, everyone knows how boring it would be if there are no conflicts and the Straw Hat Pirates always mows enemies down. Since the entering the New World, everyone get's to be pounded down. Now that the castle is about to crumble, I wonder what will happen now.

                        Currently writing a book

                        https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

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                          MrBits
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                          Why are people still saying this is the year of Sanji? That was 2016, this is 2017.

                          Originally Posted by MrBits

                          Place your bets. Is [AlphaMale/AlphaBro, an obvious ban evader] going to get banned again today, tomorrow, or in a week?

                          Originally Posted by AlphaBro

                          okay let's bet . Would love to see your losing face next week !

                          An actual bet and conversation on the Chapter 905 thread, literally an hour before he got banned again.

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                            Underworld1991
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                            Is Smoothie a lesbian? She always goes straight for the females looking excited to squeeze them snd drink there juice. She even had a female option to drink at he beginning of the wedding but no male.

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                            • Count Mario
                              Count Mario @Underworld1991
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                              @Underworld1991:

                              Is Smoothie a lesbian? She always goes straight for the females looking excited to squeeze them snd drink there juice. She even had a female option to drink at he beginning of the wedding but no male.

                              This is where we've fallen in trying to rationalize Smoothie's indolence, folks.

                              Spoiler:

                              "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                GeeBi @RadioactiveChimp
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                                @RadioactiveChimp:

                                Wow, i never said u were calling Sanji the weakest in the OP verse. Ur reading comprehension of my post is as good as ur reading of the manga no wonder u think sanji is a punching bag :happy:

                                This was the piece i called brainless of you Geeboy. Either that or trolling. Sanji's legs were never broken, at most fractured who knows where the fight could have headed. Crocodile vs Luffy started off bad and ended just fine.

                                The only person who really put Sanji in fodder state all Post Time Skip is Doffy. The same person who sliced Laws arm off and had luffy pass out for 3 days to recoup. This chapter everybody got k.o.d i'm not sure if you noticed that in ur first read through. Still I appreciate the point u bring up even if it is lacking in factual canon back up

                                And Sanji/Nico are agruably the smartest of the crew. Sanji is a pervert yes, but highly intelligent.

                                You were giving counter argument about how Sanji can fight some mid-tier fighters like Yonji/Judge , therefore I explain that even though Sanji is not the weakest (and can fight equally against some characters) , he is still a fodder to some other characters.

                                Fractured means broken , look it up on your dictionary . Again, it's ironic how you talked about 'reading comprehension' while you cannot understand the word 'broken' . Also,you should learn how to write grammatically. You have some mistakes in your opening sentences , chimp . Your reading comprehension of my post is as good as your writing skills, no wonder you don't realise current Sanji is a punching bag :happy:

                                How could Sanji win against Vergo? If he couldn't use his legs , then he would lose (Sanji will never use his hands to fight)
                                Doffy had a hard time with Law and lost to Luffy. Sanji lost to Doflamingo in 3-4 pages.

                                Sanji is smart , but still a fodder.

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                                • Mr. Luffy
                                  Mr. Luffy @Underworld1991
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                                  @Underworld1991:

                                  Is Smoothie a lesbian? She always goes straight for the females looking excited to squeeze them snd drink there juice. She even had a female option to drink at he beginning of the wedding but no male.

                                  Her going after Reiju isn't unusual since she's one of the few crew members (only one?) who can touch her without being permanently affected by the poison. It was established two chapters that she's effectively immune so long as her latent power is active.

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                                  • The Tenth Strawhat
                                    The Tenth Strawhat
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                                    As far as I'm concerned, the "Half a Year of Sanji" officially ended with this panel.

                                    !

                                    The face of a Straw Hat.

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                                    • Johnny B. Decent
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                                      Heh, even if Sanji solo'd all his brothers at the end of the arc, some of you lot would say it wouldn't be impressive sice Katakuri beat Ichiji already. 😛

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                                        RadioactiveChimp @MrBits
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                                        @MrBits:

                                        Why are people still saying this is the year of Sanji? That was 2016, this is 2017.

                                        Because we are talking in OP years mann.

                                        And Allblueguy, please dont with the year of brooke -___- brook was with the weak trio last panel crying his bones out that Sanji and Big Mom went out to play offense.

                                        imo brooke is Robin level. His glorious stuff doesnt even involve him doing anyfighting. He gets raped by big mom as a bed toy smh

                                        but i respect him for all his help with the crew.

                                        Honestly this 2yr time skip thing has been kind of a disaster. The crews strength seems to improved marginally at best.

                                        Nami, Usopp, Robin, Franky, Brooke, Chopper, and so far Sanji dont seem to have grown that much in power. Zoro got the armament on his sword and can slash Pika and Luffy got gear 4 so those are the two most enhanced bits we've seen so far but after this chapter it seems they are a large amount away from being able to handle anybody worthwhile. They can make better fodder of their past enemies though.

                                        I just expected that Luffy would be like a couple arms lengths away from Yonko level, like a hidden strength he hasnt show that he would reveal against big mom

                                        I thought Zorro and Sanji would be on par with eachother as commander level

                                        I thought Chopper would be a more notable monster. Monster point has been turned into a gag.
                                        Nami is still too weak for anything besides lightning for fodder and being the best navigator in the world
                                        Franky's only real weapon of impressive strength is his laser
                                        Brooke seems about the same as before i mean, hes over 100 years old 2 years wont make him a stronger fighter.
                                        Usopp has bigger weapons but only JUST discovered observation haki AFTER the time skip and hes supposed to be the pirate kings sniper

                                        Call it expecting too much, but its about damn time the crew is ready for a yonko imo and Big mom was supposed to be at least some kind of a display of strength.

                                        Why hype these raid suits for the Germa at all? Why hype the germa at all? It seems like an unneccessary drag for the story. This whole arc is like a 2 year filler arc if nothing goes on. Oda just leading us on with all these power levels of Yonko with nothing to show for it from any of the Strawhats. We didnt get one proper fight this whole arc. All of it off camera -___-

                                        There truly is no redemption for this arc if they leave like cowards, it was just a wasted filler

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                                          GeeBi @The Tenth Strawhat
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                                          @The:

                                          As far as I'm concerned, the "Half a Year of Sanji" officially ended with this panel.

                                          ! https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1d/b5/07/1db5070c15134747f70f230408dad664.png

                                          best year ever! But yeah, his childhood was sad.

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                                          • blue-san
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                                            Not really no…

                                            Realistically speaking Sanji is idk...I honestly dont know any more. It's just so weird how he has been treated in terms of power. Maybe the guy will eat a devil fruit lol

                                            人事を尽くして天命を待つ

                                            Link to my AMVs

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                                              RadioactiveChimp @GeeBi
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                                              @GeeBi:

                                              How could Sanji win against Vergo? If he couldn't use his legs , then he would lose (Sanji will never use his hands to fight)
                                              Doffy had a hard time with Law and lost to Luffy. Sanji lost to Doflamingo in 3-4 pages.

                                              Sanji is smart , but still a fodder.

                                              Well at least u reneged on the dumb thing, u do have some brain after all i am impressed good for you. :happy:

                                              And we dont know that Sanji was using CoA with his parry. Sanji often enters a fight without going full strength almost like he is testing the opponent. He does the same with Daifuku getting blown back before taking the fight up a notch and holding his own. He's done it countless times. That said, Sanji could have cranked it up a notch or two in the Vergo match.

                                              A couple things he could have been saying with the "If this goes on..":

                                              -…The match will last too long and the smoke will catch up
                                              -...I will have to use the skill i learned over the two years
                                              -....etc.

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                                              • The Tenth Strawhat
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                                                Now whether or not this arc changed your perspective on Sanji is entirely dependent on how you viewed his conflict and character and that's subjective for everyone. But if anyone was expecting Sanji to suddenly start shooting flames from his legs in all directions and expecting it to knock Big Mom's entire crew out at any point in the narrative, especially when you consider the fact that the WCI arc isn't focusing greatly on 1v1 bouts (the closest was Luffy and Nami vs. Cracker) like Dressrosa, then I don't know what else to say…

                                                The face of a Straw Hat.

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                                                  RadioactiveChimp @The Tenth Strawhat
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                                                  @The:

                                                  But if anyone was expecting Sanji to suddenly start shooting flames from his legs in all directions and expecting it to knock Big Mom's entire crew out…

                                                  I was expecting to see Commander or nigh Commander level out of Sanji this arc I think that's reasonable considering the circumstnces. A 2 yr skip for the Pirate Kings crew..I mean the crew needs to beef up or pack up.

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                                                    PirateHunter @Count Mario
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                                                    @Count:

                                                    This is where we've fallen in trying to rationalize Smoothie's indolence, folks.

                                                    Lmfao. It really is a shame. Katakuri is pretty cool, but there was definitely a missed opportunity with Smoothie.

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                                                    • desa
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                                                      Why is the goverment so interested in the box I wonder. Are they short on money?

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                                                      • RamistaR
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                                                        A nation's most legendary treasure, I don't think the W.G. needs any other reason to take it. Like they have no reason to build a bridge to cross Calm Belt 😆

                                                        ![](https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/60416193_2279564812361310_7795008928026198016_n.pn g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-cdt1-1.xx&oh=fb8fccf3fb39e7d0da2006be495393ff&oe=5D665A E7)

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                                                        • Greg
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                                                          "Luffy and Sanji have been KO'd. Oh no, they can't do anything else."

                                                          …............

                                                          Luffy has entered his exhaustion phase after Gear 4th.

                                                          Sanji is being restrained.

                                                          You don't think Oda has left any possible path for them to continue to battle? Because they're down?

                                                          New fans today are something else.

                                                          Mayhaps I ask your reaction to Crocodile stabbing Luffy through the chest? Was it the same doom and gloom for you then?

                                                          Have we really been reading 871 chapters of the same series?

                                                          By the way, that's now two giant cakes Mom has lost in a day.

                                                          huh...

                                                          No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                          • RomanceDawn
                                                            RomanceDawn @desa
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                                                            @desa:

                                                            Why is the goverment so interested in the box I wonder. Are they short on money?

                                                            There might be some crazy connection between the ancient kingdom, World Government, the legendary contents of the Tomate(sp?) Box and that secret death water saved for Soldiers of Alabasta that pretty much do what Fishman Island's energy steroid do but kills you at a much faster rate.

                                                            Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

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                                                              @GeeBi:

                                                              His body was fatiqued , but his bones are still healthy. However, when he was fighting Vergo , who wasn't becoming full-hardened , got his legs brokens which
                                                              shows Vergo got stronger CoA. Then…..Vergo w/full CoA got OHKO by Law (so .... Sanji doesn't always fight the strongest unbeatable enemy , right?)
                                                              Sanji didn't know Doflamingo's power and neither Doflamingo knew Sanji's power. It would not be a fair match for Doflamingo by the way if Sanji had known his skill (this is a fair match 1 vs 1 ,right?) .

                                                              I put "surprise attack by Carrot's movement" because surprise attacks in OP can become deadly , e.g. : WB got stabbed by Squad because he was careless. Meanwhile , all atacks (from Dofla/Vergo/Genie guy) coming to Sanji are always expected by Sanji , and those attacks overpowered him.

                                                              Guess what , by the way , Sanji actually is one of my fav characters , but I do acknowledge that current Sanji is pretty much a punching bag for strong characters.
                                                              I also didn't complain. In the beginning, I was just replying to your post (this is a forum to discuss One Piece manga ,isn't it?).

                                                              "his body was fati…" not really... the dude's body took an explosion right to his face and he remained wounded until the fight against Vergo, he even mentioned that he had felt Nami's punch because of his body conditions, and by the way, taking an explosion will clearly mess up with your body including bones, Sanji clearly wasn't at 100%, and about haki, Oda already said that Sanji's especiality is CoO, not CoA, so yeah Vergo has better CoA... so what?, it's not the only factor in a fight, Sanji clearly had the speed advantage in that match, and yes he lacked endurance, which can be perfectly explained by the state of his body at the time... but somehow people refuse to acknowledge this, because it goes against their own agendas i guess...

                                                              "doflamingo didn't know sanji's power" lol, what power? sanji is not a devil fruit user, he is a fighter that can fly... you don't need high level preparation for this style of fight, however with Doflamingo you need, Law and Luffy came into that match with full awareness of Doflamingo's powers, Sanji did not, you can't compare advanced fighting skills and hability to fly with an akuma no mi user dude, it's an entirely different scenario, a high skilled fighter like idk Zoro or Jinbe could lose to freaking sugar by not knowing what kind of power she has, this is not DBZ... where its all power levels and KI, sometimes akuma no mis are a big factor and you have to be prepared. Not many people remember that, but on enies lobby zoro lost to a random dude who had the power to rust metal (the anime stretched that scene, but it exists in the manga), does it mean that Zoro was weaker than a ranodm marine comander at that point? NOPE, but it means the he got caught off guard by an strange hability, and he could die because of it, because fights in one piece # fights in DBZ, especially depending of the type of akuma no mi someone uses, so YES Sanji's lack of knowledge on Doflamingo's hability was a factor in that match.

                                                              But the thing is man... every time you mention the "genie guy", you are missing the MAIN POINT of my argument, that is "random exchanges or shots doesn't indicate a character's real strength", because it is not the way Oda works, and you and other people are judging sanji for being a fodder, based on that and not in a HONEST, without distrations, without chaotic enviroment, 1 vs 1 fight, like Zoro had with Pica, like Luffy had With doflamingo, like Law had with Doflamingo, which is the moment where Oda reaally showcases the characters strength, and i gave examples of how misleading those random exchanges can be while judging a character's real strength (Yeti cool brothers, carrot's attack) i can go on and on with that, Marineford random fights... like Doflamingo and Crocodile (actually Crocodile's entire participation in that arc), Marco's first exchange with Kizaru and etc... but somehow Sanji not being focused in a 1 on 1 fight against the guy, is not a factor for you, but Zoro not being prepared by carrot's attack is... you see... it's not the FEAT i'm talking about it here, it's ODA'S NARRATIVE, with Zoro you look at the context and give your explanation, but with sanji you completely ignore the context and judge the guy's strenght based on that... it's a clear case of double standards.

                                                              And again... yes Oda hasn't show Sanji shining in fights, but he still didn't put him in a 1 on 1 fight that is a focal point of an arc either, like Luffy vs Doflaming was, and especially not against someone that is not totally beyond his level (like Doflamingo, BM's crew), the only exception for this is the Vergo's fight, which i've already explained that it's mostly overreaction by part of the fandom... so concluding once again... complaining about Oda not giving him fights or moments to shine is FAIR, TOTALLY FAIR, JUDGING HIM BY BEING WEAK without looking at the context IS NOT... it's simple... really.

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                                                              • Count Mario
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                                                                @.access:

                                                                I liked the cake theory because it could lead to BM allying with Luffy and my hopes of her Sweet Commanders fighting the Calamities. But as far as Linlin herself goes, I prefer much more the idea of her remaining a major antagonist - instead of becoming another on the huge list of Luffy's supporting female cast.

                                                                I agree a little bit, but that's mainly from just wanting there to be a credible female antagonist in the series. Looking at the arc in and of itself without overall series association, this is fine and something that was bound to happen if you saw the signs. And let's be honest here, this is at least ten times better than Hancock falling in love with Luffy because of covering a tattoo and the coincidence that he happened to punch a Celestial Dragon in the last arc. Or Pudding in general lol.

                                                                @Megaman:

                                                                You still expect Sanji to bake a cake in this situation? There's almost no fighters left on his side meaning there are no potential distractions while Sanji could bake said cake. He's pretty much their best fighter standing until Luffy gets back up, he can't exactly leave such a situation to the others and germa is pretty much dead and needs to be saved. If someone is to bake a cake, Streusen and Pudding could still bake it, especially with Streusen missing for the past several chapters.

                                                                Luffy's only tired and either needs time to rest or something to eat, Sanji is only detained and not beaten to an immobile pulp, at least Jimbei and Pedro are ready to jump into action, Caesar and Bege are alright, and maybe Reiju isn't hurt that badly. When Big Mom goes berserk, she is going to attack everyone. Even her own children. Streussen's chefs had their lifespans stolen and look at how everybody panicked the last time Big Mom rampaged until Jimbei miraculously came in with some croquembouche. Everybody is going to rely on Sanji cooking something given all of his expertise. Streussen and Pudding might be good cooks, but that doesn't mean they can handle this alone. And the Charlottes could even offer ingredients from their own powers.

                                                                @Megaman:

                                                                Yeah, she better not go on her rampage just because of the tametobako and starting attacking her own crew asking for cake. That would be the most plot BS, extreme reliance on luck way of getting out of this arc (it even requires big mom to go out-of-character and spare them). The bomb blowing up is more than enough luck, now i want them to get out of this with their own strength and using their brains. We have the smartest strawhats, capone, and genius scientists on the same side, surely they can think of something.

                                                                Big Mom having some sort of rage overload from not deciding to be more mad about the cake or the portrait was where the plot was contriving things. Everything since Luffy's entrance destroying the cake was only delaying the inevitable in Big Mom rampaging. Big Mom's illness has been built up for the entire arc and it would be a total waste to not see how the main characters deal with that type of threat.

                                                                @allbluebro:

                                                                The cake theory was almost Fairy Tale power of friendship bad from the beginning.

                                                                I'm sure there will be other things pushing for the antagonism to die down besides JUST making a new cake.

                                                                @Mr.:

                                                                I do agree that the cake theory is very unlikely at this point. Perhaps in the alluded future encounter they might form a "sweets plan" of sorts, but right now there really isn't a good reason to go that route. Even if Big Mom goes on a food rampage randomly, itself something I doubt given Mom now has a lot bigger things going on to fixate her rage on, the SHs & Co would just see that as an opportunity to escape given the rampage would no longer be directed at them and leave the Big Mom Pirates to sort it out on their own.

                                                                The theory is more likely now than ever now that another cake, Big Mom's own domicile built on the land where Linlin got inspired for her dream of racial harmony from Carmel, just got blown up. And I can't see them escaping since I doubt the Charlotte Family would let them do that.

                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                • FelRes
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                                                                  I can't wait for the next arc to start so everyone can shut up about cake.

                                                                  Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                                  \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                                  \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                    @FelRes:

                                                                    I can't wait for the next arc to start so everyone can shut up about cake.

                                                                    I know one thing for sure. Oda will have his cake. And eat it too.

                                                                    Spoiler:

                                                                    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                    • Nilitch
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                                                                      Why is the goverment so interested in the box I wonder. Are they short on money?

                                                                      The treasure is supposed to be the drugs the fishes used against the SHs in FI. Unfortunately, they used all of it.

                                                                      Every nation gets the government it deserves.–-- Joseph de Maistre

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                                                                      • The Tenth Strawhat
                                                                        The Tenth Strawhat @FelRes
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                                                                        @FelRes:

                                                                        I can't wait for the next arc to start so everyone can shut up about cake.

                                                                        But then we'll start complaining about committing animal cruelty on Kaido's crew (with something about Vivi in the mix).

                                                                        The face of a Straw Hat.

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                                                                          Count Mario @The Tenth Strawhat
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                                                                          @The:

                                                                          But then we'll start complaining about committing animal cruelty on Kaido's crew (with something about Vivi in the mix).

                                                                          "Why is the crew themed around savage animals craving instinctive belligerence and suicide over diplomacy even more incompetent than the crew with info networks and political marriage alliances?"

                                                                          Spoiler:

                                                                          "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                            BirhangZ @Strooger
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                                                                            What if one of Mom's defensive mechanics is that everytime you make any form of physical contact, you lose your life span?
                                                                            Maybe not years, but in days, so it completely drains your energy for an engery you would have for two days?
                                                                            Because Luffy's remark on being tired is full of wonders.

                                                                            Also, perhaps the Fishmen under Jinbei's command sneaked a bombed inside the tamebako??

                                                                            That instant kill on Judge *shudders. I strongly believe she is capable of wielding all elements but still, I mean, guys, none of the Mugiwaras died when struck by Enel, and erm..never mind, I don't want to be struck by her.

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                                                                              Nice chapter, my worries about Big Mom appearing unthreatening were sated. This is all I wanted, that sense of dread from her and her crew rather than being ran circles around by the Strawhats like a bunch of incompetents.

                                                                              I blame off panelling most the moments where the Big Mom pirates got to look dangerous; most the Cracker fight, Brulee and gang capturing Chopper and Carrot, Luffy vs. the Big Mom army, etc.

                                                                              Pretty confused why most the thread devolved into a Sanji sucks discussion about power levels though.

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                                                                                Gold Roger didnt defeat Big Mom. He sneaked inside and stole the poneglyph.
                                                                                Anyone who thought that Luffy without half of his crew could do any better?
                                                                                Show me one example where Luffy defeated a main villain at first fight?

                                                                                The fight with BigMom showed once more, post timeskip: Luffy wins with a team and not alone. If he is alone he cannot win. And I like that.

                                                                                I hope they can flee the place soon and we go on to the next arc. It was a nice arc and we got a very good portrait of BigMom.

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                                                                                  Stussy´s Flying Shigan was performed by her left hand. Next panel shows smoke coming from her right hand index finger.

                                                                                  Later Big Mom reaches for the cloud with her left arm. Next panel the way her fingers are drawn makes it seem like she grabs it with her right hand. Then she proceeds to thunderslam Judge with her left arm.

                                                                                  This bothers me for some reason.:ninja:

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                                                                                    Dark-Abel @RadioactiveChimp
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                                                                                    @RadioactiveChimp:

                                                                                    I was expecting to see Commander or nigh Commander level out of Sanji this arc I think that's reasonable considering the circumstnces. A 2 yr skip for the Pirate Kings crew..I mean the crew needs to beef up or pack up.

                                                                                    It's obvious Sanji will be at commander level at the end of the story when Luffy is at Yonkou level.

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                                                                                    • Count Mario
                                                                                      Count Mario @Nubtro
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                                                                                      @Nubtro:

                                                                                      Stussy´s Flying Shigan was performed by her left hand. Next panel shows smoke coming from her right hand index finger.

                                                                                      Yeah, that's a legit nitpick. It's weird to see that drawn, but I expect it to be fixed in the volume release.

                                                                                      Later Big Mom reaches for the cloud with her left arm. Next panel the way her fingers are drawn makes it seem like she grabs it with her right hand. Then she proceeds to thunderslam Judge with her left arm.

                                                                                      This bothers me for some reason.:ninja:

                                                                                      But she wasn't grabbing Zeus. You see her raise her hand into the sky with sparks flying out, and then a panel of Zeus suddenly being around her arm as an indication that she summoned him out of this air. So Zeus basically becomes an extension of her own arm rather than an object she is superficially tugging at. There are various panels throughout the arc that show Prometheus and Zeus forming around her hands. Like these pages:

                                                                                      !
                                                                                      !

                                                                                      I see what you mean about the fingers slightly clenching, but they're extended enough to still look like she's getting ready to slam/slap something rather than grab something.

                                                                                      But then it gets a bit weirder since there are also pages of her throwing Prometheus like a ball/bomb instead of enveloping her hand.

                                                                                      !
                                                                                      !

                                                                                      So… Just roll with it, I guess.

                                                                                      Spoiler:

                                                                                      "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                                        Sads @Dr. Faust
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                                                                                        Check out my channel!! "Yeah I'm Awesome like that!!!"

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                                                                                        • ARTEMlS
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                                                                                          However, the cake theory has one big problem. The same as reading the Food Wars manga… Well, reading about it in this thread just makes me hungry. Seriously, how are we as readers supposed to deal with the following chapters, if alone the thought of this cake alone makes you unbearably hungry?!

                                                                                          Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

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                                                                                          • .access timeco.
                                                                                            .access timeco. @Nubtro
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                                                                                            Is this a potato person?

                                                                                            @Nubtro:

                                                                                            Stussy´s Flying Shigan was performed by her left hand. Next panel shows smoke coming from her right hand index finger.

                                                                                            Later Big Mom reaches for the cloud with her left arm. Next panel the way her fingers are drawn makes it seem like she grabs it with her right hand. Then she proceeds to thunderslam Judge with her left arm.

                                                                                            This bothers me for some reason.:ninja:

                                                                                            What about she readying haki on both her hands but on the next panel only having it on the left one?

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                                                                                            • Count Mario
                                                                                              Count Mario @ARTEMlS
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                                                                                              @ARTEMlS:

                                                                                              However, the cake theory has one big problem. The same as reading the Food Wars manga… Well, reading about it in this thread just makes me hungry. Seriously, how are we as readers supposed to deal with the following chapters, if alone the thought of this cake alone makes you unbearably hungry?!

                                                                                              You have to eat the manga. Or in this case, your computer.

                                                                                              Spoiler:

                                                                                              "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                                                Megaman @Count Mario
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                                                                                                @Count:

                                                                                                Luffy's only tired and either needs time to rest or something to eat, Sanji is only detained and not beaten to an immobile pulp, at least Jimbei and Pedro are ready to jump into action, Caesar and Bege are alright, and maybe Reiju isn't hurt that badly. When Big Mom goes berserk, she is going to attack everyone. Even her own children. Streussen's chefs had their lifespans stolen and look at how everybody panicked the last time Big Mom rampaged until Jimbei miraculously came in with some croquembouche. Everybody is going to rely on Sanji cooking something given all of his expertise. Streussen and Pudding might be good cooks, but that doesn't mean they can handle this alone. And the Charlottes could even offer ingredients from their own powers.

                                                                                                Big Mom having some sort of rage overload from not deciding to be more mad about the cake or the portrait was where the plot was contriving things. Everything since Luffy's entrance destroying the cake was only delaying the inevitable in Big Mom rampaging. Big Mom's illness has been built up for the entire arc and it would be a total waste to not see how the main characters deal with that type of threat.

                                                                                                I'm sure there will be other things pushing for the antagonism to die down besides JUST making a new cake.

                                                                                                The theory is more likely now than ever now that another cake, Big Mom's own domicile built on the land where Linlin got inspired for her dream of racial harmony from Carmel, just got blown up. And I can't see them escaping since I doubt the Charlotte Family would let them do that.

                                                                                                The cake theory is dead, give it up. There's not even a good reason for it anymore. She didn't go berserk after her carmel photo and wedding cake got destroyed. Even if she does go berserk here, why would the crew help her when it's the only chance they will have to escape?
                                                                                                Why would big mom spare them because she got some cake? look how focused she is on making sure they die here, with the tametebako blowing up that just increases her anger towards them.
                                                                                                She got her croquembouche and a poneglyph from jimbei , yet was still going to kill him if he left the crew, so again why would she show any desire or thoughts to let the strawhats go after all they've done?
                                                                                                Sanji is needed for fighting and escaping, not baking a cake. Look how much trouble they are having already, you want one of their main fighters to stop fighting and focusing on some cake? Toying with their df powers isn't an option, big moms crew are not so weak where he can just grab all their attacks and use it for some cake.
                                                                                                Streusen has been away for quite some chapters, he has a df that makes food. He is more than capable of making this cake, hell he's probably near done making it by now. Sanji isn't the only one who could do this.
                                                                                                You and many other cake supporters say there will be other things than the cake to stop her from killing them, yet I've never seen any of you give any good examples. I feel like you guys are saying he will bake a cake "just because you want him to" without looking at the situation.

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                                                                                                • felton
                                                                                                  felton @ARTEMlS
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                                                                                                  @ARTEMlS:

                                                                                                  However, the cake theory has one big problem. The same as reading the Food Wars manga… Well, reading about it in this thread just makes me hungry. Seriously, how are we as readers supposed to deal with the following chapters, if alone the thought of this cake alone makes you unbearably hungry?!

                                                                                                  The cake is a lie!

                                                                                                  "Happily ever after is so once upon a time"


                                                                                                  thanks Samwize78 for the avatar

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                                                                                                  • joesephes
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                                                                                                    Well I've read the chapter yesterday morning and just when I was getting bored of the WCI arc, Oda found a way to bring me back in, thanks to a certain scene in this latest chapter that caught my attention big time.

                                                                                                    Now before I talk about that certain scene , let me get my quick thoughts about the chapter out of the way first:

                                                                                                    • First off, let me just say that I'm glad that we FINALLY have a female character using the Hardening variation of Armament Haki (unless Viola’s Hierro Lagrima: Mekujira uses that too and if so then my bad). Seriously, what took you so long, Oda?
                                                                                                    • Next, seeing how capable Big Mom is as a fighter is quite a breath of fresh air as she has truly proven her Emperor mantle in this chapter. Honestly, my interest in her has grown quite a bit because of this chapter alone. 🙂
                                                                                                    • And finally, I think we can all agree that Stussy being a member of Cp0 is the most surprising twist in this chapter which is a huge plus for me IMO.
                                                                                                    • However If there is one major gripe that I have for the chapter is how much of the action is being off-paneled. Come on, Oda! Why you gotta do that with this chapter? 😞

                                                                                                    Overall, I give this chapter a 8/10. 🙂

                                                                                                    Now with all that said and in speaking of Stussy, there is this one scene that I really want to talk about, which is THIS:

                                                                                                    Now you can say "Dude, she's just using Flying Shigan. What's the big deal about that?". True, but what caught my eye is HOW she does it. Noticed that she didn't even flick her fingernails or jab her finger to execute it. When I saw this, it instantly reminds me of a technique that I've drawn back in early 2012 and added to the Rokushiki Robin document that I've sent to Oda a year later (which was 2013).

                                                                                                    ! This is the drawing:
                                                                                                    !
                                                                                                    ! And this is the description of the technique used in said drawing:
                                                                                                    ! Shidan (指弾, Finger shot) - This technique is an evolved form of Shigan with Busōshoku Haki capabilities. To use this technique, the user must concentrate his/her Busōshoku Haki around his/her finger(s) before thrusting (or jabbing) his/her finger(s) forward. This will result in launching a completely invisible “ki” bullet towards the enemy as if she/he was shooting an actual bullet. How far the bullet will travel depends on the strength of the user.

                                                                                                    Looks pretty dang similar, doesn't it? Also, looking back again, I've come to noticed that both Lucci (at least in OPBB) and Bonham also used Tobu shigan in a similar way last year and early this year respectively (even though Bonham is a filler character and Lucci still called his “Tobu Shigan: Bachi” for some reason even though he wasn't in Half-Leopard form to do it).

                                                                                                    Honestly, I would be shocked as hell if he took the idea of the technique from the sketch in that very same document years ago and applied it to the shigan used here in this chapter. Then again, I could easily be wrong since it might just be a coincidence because let's be honest here, anyone can come up with this kind of technique since it's not really complex. 🙂

                                                                                                    THE NICO ROBIN: ROKUSHIKI PROJECT

                                                                                                    Go here for the project and here for the thread! (UPDATE 10/18/20)

                                                                                                    *THE HUAQUANDAO STYLE PROJECT

                                                                                                    Go here or here (UPDATE 05/10/14)

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                                                                                                    • Count Mario
                                                                                                      Count Mario @Megaman
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                                                                                                      @Megaman:

                                                                                                      The cake theory is dead, give it up. There's not even a good reason for it anymore. She didn't go berserk after her carmel photo and wedding cake got destroyed. Even if she does go berserk here, why would the crew help her when it's the only chance they will have to escape?
                                                                                                      Why would big mom spare them because she got some cake? look how focused she is on making sure they die here, with the tametebako blowing up that just increases her anger towards them.
                                                                                                      She got her croquembouche and a poneglyph from jimbei , yet was still going to kill him if he left the crew, so again why would she show any desire or thoughts to let the strawhats go after all they've done?
                                                                                                      Sanji is needed for fighting and escaping, not baking a cake. Look how much trouble they are having already, you want one of their main fighters to stop fighting and focusing on some cake? Toying with their df powers isn't an option, big moms crew are not so weak where he can just grab all their attacks and use it for some cake.
                                                                                                      Streusen has been away for quite some chapters, he has a df that makes food. He is more than capable of making this cake, hell he's probably near done making it by now. Sanji isn't the only one who could do this.
                                                                                                      You and many other cake supporters say there will be other things than the cake to stop her from killing them, yet I've never seen any of you give any good examples. I feel like you guys are saying he will bake a cake "just because you want him to" without looking at the situation.

                                                                                                      She didn't go berserk over those things because she was confused over which thing to be more angry about. The wedding cake would make her illness act up. The portrait would cause her to scream and become vulnerable. Luffy showing her the portrait pieces made the latter influence win out. So the Straw Hats got insanely lucky when the scream occurred instead of a rampage (although that ironically turned out to also still doom them), and Oda then reinforced how significant Big Mom's illness is in the plot by showing her flashback and how her destructive craving for Semla to her cast out of Elbaf. Now, Big Mom's whole castle that is literally a GIANT CAKE got destroyed by the Tamatebako Box exploding. What do you think is a suitable reaction to that twist which delivers more than repetitively making Big Mom get angry at the Straw Hats again? Everybody faces the wrath of her illness.

                                                                                                      The crew will help her probably because of a few things:

                                                                                                      One, the Charlotte Family will not allow them to leave. Even if Big Mom doesn't discriminate friend from foe, I don't see them also being negligent enough to let the Straw Hats escape (they may even pull a "if we die, you die too" shtick).

                                                                                                      Two, I can see Sanji being compassionate enough to want to help Big Mom due to her illness being related to food and being adamant about not wanting nobody to suffer from not being able to eat (such as when he fed Gin free food in the Baratie). If this arc is all about praising how kind Sanji is to the point that he's willing to ask the Straw Hats to risk their lives to save scum like the Vinsmoke Family, he may try to help Big Mom even right after she tried to kill him (this is the same guy that was willing to let Kalifa kill him and risk both Robin not getting her key and anybody else who would fight Kalifa in his place dying, and was willing to let Violet kill him because "a woman's tears never lie"). His chivalry towards women can also play a role here, and maybe even Chopper's doctoring as well. And c'mon. We're in an arc centered around a land and antagonist faction literally made out of food, and the most Sanji has cooked in this arc is bento for Luffy. The best way for Sanji's cooking skills to ever be worked into the entire series is in saving the day and showing that the hobby the Vinsmokes mocked as inferiority is the passion that will save everybody's lives.

                                                                                                      We don't know how capable Streussen is at cooking with his Devil Fruit. All we saw him do was cut a log into slices of steak and presumably help turn Totland into a food paradise over the course of decades. The Big Mom Pirates also needed to raid other islands to raid ingredients, so I doubt that Streussen can magically slice a whole cake out of the ground in a few minutes.

                                                                                                      Quelling Big Mom's rampage means the Straw Hats save her life, the lives of her family/crew, and the lives of her kingdom (which she takes pride in since her dream is all about creating peace). There may also be other factors as well, such as Pound and Pekoms arriving to somehow influence Big Mom's mindset, and maybe even her kids finally standing up to her instead of remaining quiet to avoid her wrath. But the biggest influence can come from Pudding reading Streussen's memories to show Big Mom what happened to Carmel and the orphans, as well as learn about Carmel being a child trafficker from either Streussen's memories or Stussy depending on where Oda goes with the plot. Revelations this big and so deeply rooted in her motivations can rock her to the core with guilt and uncertainty. She had the mindset of a child for decades and while she should be held culpable for her crimes against the world, she was shown to be a kind child in her flashback that never got discipline or conversations to understand her flaws since Carmel would preach to everybody to forgive her.

                                                                                                      We aren't saying that "we just want him to" bake a cake for the sake of it. We're analyzing the story and seeing that the plotlines in this arc (Fishman Island's safety, the Baratie's safety, Pudding's family issues, Lola/Chiffon/Pound's family issues, whatever role Pekoms and maybe Count Niwatori will play since they've been kept out of the current situation for some sort of reason, maybe the library getting freed, and Big Mom's finally becoming relevant in the plot after so much build-up) can't get a proper resolution if the Straw Hats escape and then go off to Wano for a week or two in diegetic time. And we also see that Big Mom, as terrible a person as she is, actually has a mix of morally gray/positive traits in her that make it possible for her to find redemption unlike how Oda characterizes all of his other villains to despicably irredeemable to the core with zero positive traits in their respective antagonist arcs. In any other story, this would be a sign of an author making their villains more complex. For somebody who has certain strict writing patterns like Oda, it probably means that Big Mom has a unique purpose and resolution to her antagonism against the Straw Hats.

                                                                                                      If the Straw Hats merely escape instead of resolving these built-up plotlines, this arc's endgame would come off as being ironically half-baked. Even if it's for the purpose of having a second Big Mom Pirates showdown with the whole Straw Hat crew in Elbaf. Which I doubt for several other reasons.

                                                                                                      Spoiler:

                                                                                                      "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

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                                                                                                        Megaman @Count Mario
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                                                                                                        @Count:

                                                                                                        Well you yourself think the cake won't be enough to stop her from killing the crew as you mention how Pudding showing Streusens memories of carmel is the bigger factor. In other words, there's no point to this cake it is completely unnecessary as it doesn't even save the day. It will simply waste 3 or so chapters only to lead them back into the situation they are currently in, which is big mom still wanting to kill them.

                                                                                                        As for Sanji's "kindness", he's displayed that when he decided to save the germa, and it was more so that he won't disappoint Zeff rather than oda turning him into some "super kind" character that he never was. For one he sure didn't care about streusens chefs getting the soul taken from them. Sanji suddenly caring about big moms illness makes no sense either nor does it have something to do with his chivalry, seeing as how he has no issues with Luffy punching her, or even capone trying to poison her.

                                                                                                        A lot of these plotlines being solved here prevent the Big Mom arc in Elbaf. If they are neutral or allies, then there's no point in Luffy beating her anymore. Rather than waste the potential of both this arc and elbaf, oda could continue the conflict between them simply by "kidnapping" pudding just for example. She won't kill anyone as long as they hold the only way she can become pirate king, and so the main conflict resolves in elbaf. Characters like pound and pekoms can still play a role this arc as it's not over yet, it doesn't require her to eat a cake for them to show up.

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