Oda's love for Game of Thrones just made him more open to 'kill off' his characters
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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some people should know that not everyone is going to get a happy ending
THis is One Piece. Even most of the badguys get happy endings.
I don't get why Oda needs to show a body, showing body parts all around and a guy with his head lopped off is too dark and One Piece isn't seinen. Getting shot multiple times can be a bit dark for One Piece but it's not as bad and gruesome as compared to dying from an explosion or getting decapitated,
Why would being exploded be graphic at all? There's no reason for it to be a horrific bloody mess. It would just be a dusted up still intact body as shonen rules imply. Check chapter 497. There a guy gets exploded, shot, and peed on. (But hes still taken off by a doctor and presumed okay afterward) He's a fried mess and made to look pathetic and beat up, but a hero character wouldn't need to be that bad. Heck, most of the strawhats got fried by Enel and got a little crispy and came out fine.
And Oda has done tones of decapitations and severed limbs. If its a fake out he has no problem just doing a clean cut like with Buggy or Crocodile or Doflamingo, or going actually bloody like with Zoro at Thriller Bark or Shanks and Oar's limbs or splitting open half of WHitebeard's skull. Can always do things in silhouette as well.
Even though Pound never met Chiffon face to face, he at least managed to see her along with his grandson. Pound's death is supposed to be very sad and maybe even symbolic, an outcast man who was never allowed to see his daughters ever since they were born, that same father would always think about them and even though he never directly met them he at least ended up seeing one of them and as a father he even saved one of their lives while sacrificing his own.
He never met Lola, nor did he get to see the husband she ended up with . (Lucky Roo?) And Lola still has a ton of buisness to finish in the story. He hasn't fullfilled his one dream AT ALL.
As for Pound we pretty much see Oven about to decapitate Pound with his naginata and even though we don't see it, we do however see a slice sound effect. Imo if Pound wasn't decapitated then I believe there would be no slice sound effect, and even if he did somehow survive remember that Cacao Island was now full of BMP so that would mean he would probably get captured and then quickly get killed on the spot.
There are literally hundreds of explanations for what happened off camera. He fell down and Oven hit the ground instead. He had a thicker skull than expected. Oven got hit in the head by a rock. ANother character showed up and saved him. It was off camera, he's fine.
That quote from Hiriluk imo really fits Pound's death, Pound was a character that not everybody remembers and most people even forgets who he was.
That's… the opposite of what Hiriluk's quote is about. Pound is worse than forgotten, he was never even known at all. He wasn't inspiring or loved or passing on his dreams. He just got to kind of sadly be called a weirdo by his daughter. That's not a happy finish you can pass on in One Piece.
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I dont think we will see Capone and Chiffon again until the very end of the story though. The 'final battle' where almost everyone who appeared in the story could fight alongside (or against) the Strawhats. In that occasion maybe Oda will bring back Pound from the Whole Cake arc (which at that point would be a several years old arc) and give him his happy ending with Chiffon and Lola,who knows. But i dont see this as a Oda's priority,though. He could have just planned this bittersweet story for Pound to start and end in Whole Cake arc. Plus,even if Pound 'died',lets remember he was actually happy to: 1- look at Chiffon for the first time 2- sacrificing himself for her 3-seeing that she was married and happy with a family.
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If the Elbaf and Big Mom arc happens, that will be the final few charlottes family meeting. Probably just Lola, Chiffon, Pudding and Big Mom tho.
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YES! Exactly. That's what will happen and it's gonna be mushy and grand.
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Orochi is brilliant as a character but his design is still one of the worst.
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@Joy:
Orochi is brilliant as a character but his design is still one of the worst.
This is just my guess, but I believe he was partially based off Hideyoshi Toyotomi, who was said to be very ugly, called the "bald rat," in his youth.
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Hideyoshi is generally likened to a monkey and that's a major thing in his pop culture presence. If Oda was going off him I can't imagine him not having some sort of monkey motif. Various warlords and samurai masks though, yeah he's got some of that.
@Joy:
Orochi is brilliant as a character but his design is still one of the worst.
Naw, it's a fantastic design. It's not a traditional menacing villain look, but Kaidou is already covering that. It is a great comedy villain. Reminds me of something from Pizza Cats.
If that guy ever gets legit mean, that'll be terrifying.
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Orochi is a very interesting character and I like his wacky looking design, however because of his design and the way he acts some people don't seem to find him all that interesting or even care for his character. There is definitely more to Orochi's character and I'm also interested on his relationship with Kaido, imo I don't think Orochi is going to be a comedic villain but who knows I could be wrong and later on he might end up becoming one.
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i should mention that Wapol is my favorite villain in the series by far.
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Orochi is such a One Piece design. I can see someone not liking him, but he doesn't feel out of place by any means.
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Hideyoshi is generally likened to a monkey and that's a major thing in his pop culture presence. If Oda was going off him I can't imagine him not having some sort of monkey motif. Various warlords and samurai masks though, yeah he's got some of that.
Ah, I meant in the sense that he went from peasant to ruler, is ugly as sin, hedonistic and decadent, and likes him some ladies. I think having a monkey motif would have been a bit too on the nose for him.
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i should mention that Wapol is my favorite villain in the series by far.
Lame! Foxy and Senior Pink all the mutha'fletchin' way!
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Lame! Foxy and Senior Pink all the mutha'fletchin' way!
Like whoever you want, its all personal preference.
But Wapol is my boy.
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Hmmmm One Piece villains can be good even if they aren't badass / cool / strong?
You're supposed to say this character is a joke, a trash villain and oda's wasting a character
Don't you watch OP YouTube commenter videos. Quit thinking multi dimensionally. :ninja:
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i should mention that Wapol is my favorite villain in the series by far.
This guy right here understands the might of king Wapol
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however because of his design and the way he acts some people don't seem to find him all that interesting or even care for his character.
I can't responsibly say, "Those people shouldn't be reading One Piece."
But here's what I will say.
They have literally no idea what makes One Piece attractive.
They are confusing One Piece for Naruto, Bleach, Dragon Ball, Toriko etc. where villains all need to be the ideal shonen sketch of what we think looks 'badass'.One Piece has badass villains every once in a while.
These are usually balanced out with goofball subordinates that look/act like buffoons or have hilarious quirks. Often those badass villains will display quirks too. Lest we forget Lucci does goofy ventriloquism, Ener's face fault and afro, and Kaido has varying states of inebriation.
One Piece was never, is not and never will be purely about being shonen bad-ass.
That's why it's One Piece.
Orochi is an embodiment of what he is on the inside.
Did you (no, not anyone on this forum) not read when Wapol was a garbage can hippo?
Did you not get the memo when Spandam looked like a complete tool?
Did you miss the text when Moria looked like the male anatomy with arms?
Did you not get the hint when Celestial Dragons mostly look like inbred slobs?
Did you miss the newsflash when Mom looked like an egg with a mouth?This isn't new. One Piece….has always....always.....been like this.
Why now in the YT generation when more people are reading week to week is it suddenly a complaint ^O^
Did you somehow misread the past 18,000 pages?Anyone complaining about Orochi's design doesn't get Oda and doesn't get One Piece. Hell, you don't even have to like it (totally legit complaint) but at least one shouldn't be surprised that, yes, this is what Oda does and understand why Orochi looks the way he does.
If you're complaining about it then all I can say is, maybe One Piece isn't for you, because you're missing something at the core of the series and if that's really how you feel, I promise that you'll be sorely disappointed at the end of this.
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I object to the wording "only" a Spandam. Dude was an a-list dickbag. Truly an excellently hateable villain, and the fact that he couldn't really fight and made others do his bidding only served to make him seem like even more of a dick. As is the case with Oro-dude, that he hides behind daddy Kaido and couldn't scramble up a single lord to his side is not a slam on his villain credentials, if anything it's a plus. Cowardly, weak, lacking honor and dignity, bullying children, women and those who can't fight back these are good things when it comes to being a hate sink. So in summation people like Wapol, Oro-dude and Spandam make for great villains in my book
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What if I like Spandam, Wapol, Foxy, Moria, but not Orochi. I get him but I just don't care for him. He's lacking a certain flair. Like not goofy enough or charismatic enough so I shuffle him in with the world nobles who are similarly evul but I wouldn't go evul for them.
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Orochis design is fine, but he's lacking a standout trait or quirk to him, like Spandam being clumsy and disrespected at every turn, or Foxys terrible self-esteem. The best Orochi has going for him is one instance of being slightly superstitious? Maybe if that got played up he'd be more memorable. Like, full on sleeping-with-nightlights-on "OH SHIT A BLACK CAT!" superstitious.
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What if I like Spandam, Wapol, Foxy, Moria, but not Orochi. I get him but I just don't care for him. He's lacking a certain flair. Like not goofy enough or charismatic enough so I shuffle him in with the world nobles who are similarly evul but I wouldn't go evul for them.
That's totally fine! That's some legit reasoning backing up that opinion not, "His design sucks, so he sucks."(^o^)
But for me, that flair was there the first chap we meet him. He reaches for a gun to threaten cp0 showing that while damning the outside world he relies on it to threaten those around him. Perfect tyrant and antithesis of bushido.
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I really miss Foxy. I wonder why Oda discarded him just like that? Most characters get at least a decks of the world appearance after all.
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I really miss Foxy. I wonder why Oda discarded him just like that? Most characters get at least a decks of the world appearance after all.
I think he's supposed to be in the new movie
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I really miss Foxy. I wonder why Oda discarded him just like that? Most characters get at least a decks of the world appearance after all.
Well, Toei's practically got a death-grip on him.
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Did you miss the text when Moria looked like the male anatomy with arms?
…. oh no.
I had in fact missed that text and now I... uhm.
Ew.
I really miss Foxy. I wonder why Oda discarded him just like that? Most characters get at least a decks of the world appearance after all.
Did he discard him? Or is he saving him for something later? I mean, he let Axe Hand go loose in the world nearly twenty years ago and still hasn't gotten back to that.
I think it was mostly a matter of timing and plot importance. After Foxy we got cover stories for Baroque Works (needed to set up Impel Down) Enel (moon stuff will be important later) CP9 (show they're alive and out there) and then the Strawhat seperation. All plot stuff that had to take priority.
After the timeskip well… there was no place to do a cover story for him anymore.
I imagine he'll turn up as a member of Buggy's crew at some point or something. Or maybe he's a character that Oda feels has been broken properly by losing his flag but doesn't need an actual redemptive arc, the same way Kuro never showed up again except in the anime..
Actually thinking about it, the anime really liked using Foxy for filler for whatever reason, giving him TWO full filler arcs, plus padding out his original appearance a ton) so maybe Oda felt leaving him alone so he could be exploited for maximum filler was something he could do for the animation staff. That the anime has not touched him since is beside the point.
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So about that….
Toei traditionally takes an idea to Oda and he'll okay it.
When it comes to villains and original stories, Toei is eager to use past villains and for characters they specifically avoid it's usually because Oda has an idea for them down the line and he's trying to avoid story hiccups. That's fair game and I personally know of villains whom he has specified for such treatment.
This goes to show, however, that he doesn't have any big plans for Foxy, or at least nothing that would alter the story. This is why we got the Foxy special a few years back.
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Do you guys remember when the Revolutionaries Commanders told Pink Beard that Black Beard doesn't care for his subordinates at all, do you think that's also true about his ten Titan commanders? Or does he at least care a bit about them?
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So about that….
Toei traditionally takes an idea to Oda and he'll okay it.
When it comes to villains and original stories, Toei is eager to use past villains and for characters they specifically avoid it's usually because Oda has an idea for them down the line and he's trying to avoid story hiccups. That's fair game and I personally know of villains whom he has specified for such treatment.
This goes to show, however, that he doesn't have any big plans for Foxy, or at least nothing that would alter the story. This is why we got the Foxy special a few years back.
Greg how's the davy back looked at in japan. Is it still considered one of the worst or " least best" arcs I did a survey with 2100+ people and 15 regions had 30+ people (the cutoff for sample size) and not a single one of those regions, including africa, latin america, china/east asia and india/south asia had the foxy arc as anywhere but last, albeit in mexico it almost beat out syrup village where in other regions it was rated (on a 10 point scale) around 1 point below their worst. Long and short of it, it was the consensus least liked
I just kind of wonder if Oda looked at the reception / or at his other characters and thought ehhh I can do this kind of character better or he wasnt interested in bringing him back.
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Oda's likely to do the opposite.
"You didn't like him, huh? Well how about THIS!?"
I dunno if it's disliked so much as it's just not a traditional arc and thereby forgotten. I imagine in a few years Zou would probably be behind it because literally nothing happens during Zou except some great reveals.
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That's the missing piece. Wapol was plain old monarchy, Spandam was nepotism, is Orochi just a handpicked puppet from foreign powers? Why did Kaido chose to support him of all people? I guess we'll know during Oden's flashback.
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They're good drinking buddies maybe?
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If you're complaining about it then all I can say is, maybe One Piece isn't for you, because you're missing something at the core of the series and if that's really how you feel, I promise that you'll be sorely disappointed at the end of this.
Is this a hint towards you being "in-the-know" about certain aspects of the Final War, One Piece itself and all that, that you got through your contacts and which couldn't be deduced by simply analyzing the series by an ordinary fan?
Obviously, if this were the case, you would never reveal the specific details, which is totally fine, but this statement looks like a "Big Hint!"-moment for me.
Or maybe I'm just overthinking this…
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Blink twice for no and once for yes
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Yeah, it may have been a dumb question, so I might deserve an ironic answer.
And have read here since '05 and been here over 2 years as a member, so I should know better maybe.
But I didn't read/post here for a while and Greg's comment had this "Not-only-hinting-at-what-will-happen-but-also-the-symbolism-of-all-of-it", which made it alle the more meaningful and this coming from Greg himself and so on, so I couldn't resist.
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I won't be vocal about what I do or don't know about the end right now but what you questioned came solely from my understanding of the series and everything that has come before rather than what will happen down the line.
Tke strongest single known being has face faults. Wanting Oda to ever go full badass is like waiting for the sun to rise in the east. The closest he's come is Mingo who winds up being an angry sad kid and Croc whose 'secret' still hasn't been revealed.
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I loved how he trolled everyone with Katakuri.
Don't think I ever laughed so hard at One Piece. You know, the moment in which we see a typical shonen badass villain shamefully stuffing his weird ass face with donuts while singing about them.
That was maybe one of my favorite chapters ever (minus Katakuri going postal on those poor servants).
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@Big:
Is this a hint towards you being "in-the-know" about certain aspects of the Final War, One Piece itself and all that, that you got through your contacts and which couldn't be deduced by simply analyzing the series by an ordinary fan?
Greg knows some things, since some of his columns get rejected or changed for reasons, but he writes those columns out of pure fan based speculation and reasoning. That they're denied sometimes is kind of a confirmation of "you got it really close and this borders on spoilers, so we can't print it", but he had to get to that point on his own to start with. So he'll semi-officially get some stuff confirmed that way, but he's not outright told big things.
He had a lot of stuff figured out about Momo and Kinemon way in advance, that the rest of use suspected too. Or he speculated Big Mom would be showing up in the near future, and that didn't make it to the column because by the time it hit print she was going to be in the story two weeks later so the column would be a dumb speculation at that point.
But for example, Cake theory was all him figuring out what Oda would think is interesting and how Sanji had to be paid off. He was firm in that theory because he knows how Oda works, not because someone on staff secretly told him. (And Greg's version of the cake theory was more interesting and exciting than how Oda eventually actually handled it IMO)
I don't think he knows anything super big or super crazy like what you're asking, so he doesn't know what IM or the strawhat are about or what One Piece officially is, but he's picked up a few behind the scenes things or confirmations a normal fan couldn't officially know. There are a couple things he refuses to speculate on publicly for that reason.
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Funny that Greg mentioned Croc and Mingo. Because from all OnePiece characters I dislike them the most. Followed by Law, where somehow all the persons around him, now and in his flashbacks, have more personality than him.
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Law is the least OP character of all.
Atleast Lucci had a pigeon in a little suit
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Law had that face fault which puts him below Mingo and slightly below Croc (^o^)
I don't think he knows anything super big or super crazy like what you're asking, so he doesn't know what IM or the strawhat are about
Well actually….
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Here I am, trying to politely say "You can't talk about stuff" so you don't have to say it, and then you do that kind of tease!
You sir, are a jerk.
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Law had that face fault which puts him below Mingo and slightly below Croc (^o^)
Doffy the bowlegged giant in a pink feather boa who plays with invisible puppets edging out pretty boy Law on the too cool for school ranking? -insert incredulous remark-
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I’d vote for Sabo being least OPish, I just cant feel his character at all.
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You sir, are a jerk.
:wub:
Doffy the bowlegged giant in a pink feather boa who plays with invisible puppets edging out pretty boy Law on the too cool for school ranking? -insert incredulous remark-
I’d vote for Sabo being least OPish, I just cant feel his character at all.
Y'know, I used to feel that way until the chap where we got his past and learned that he had amnesia. That made his actions since his disappearance much more believable and realistic in the world grounding him a bit.
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Sabo fills the Ace niche pretty well in my eyes. Cool older brother with a quirk or two.
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I love Croc.
I probably go for Sabo for least One Piece character. Dogtooth has the teeth, Ace had that his weird party habits and narcolepsie. Sabo is both the coolest and blandest making him a strange fit. Say what you want about Croc and Doffly but they are distinct. One has a scar across and the other has freakish leg and looks like a pimp. Sabo is just perfect all the time and only gives you the most cliché answer to everything.
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Well actually….
Greg, Oda said in a "recent" interview that he would change the end of One Piece if it predicted by some fans. I was a bit surprised by that, I thought he was particularly attached to that end he had decided from chapter 1 and we know One Piece is remarquably coherent thanks to that big scenario he has in mind. So how did you feel about that decision ?
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Guys and Girls, do you think the latest reveal about Ebisu and the Smile-DFs is somehow related to the lack of emotions the Germa Boys Show?
After all, the germa Boys and Sanji (and maybe Judge as well or not) have those ("DevilFruity") curls as eyebrows. But smiles have no curls at all, so maybe
there is no Connection at all. The germa Boys can still do lovey dovey faces like their brother.In hindsight, Otoko's cheerful behaviour (and laughing all the time) DID look weird, but until 942 one could have said "oh, that's just a quirk".
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Talking about least OP-ish, Zoro. At least law has giant teddy bear as first mate, Zoro is just Bleach manga.
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Greg, Oda said in a "recent" interview that he would change the end of One Piece if it predicted by some fans. I was a bit surprised by that, I thought he was particularly attached to that end he had decided from chapter 1 and we know One Piece is remarquably coherent thanks to that big scenario he has in mind. So how did you feel about that decision ?
There's changing the end, and then there's CHANGING the end.
Something like planning on Shiryu getting the diamond fruit so Zoro can surpass Mihawk, but then everyone guessing that for 10 years, leads to Shiryu getting the invisible fruit instead. That's a surprise, that's a change.
Something like "The One Piece is actually _____ that binds the world together" that he's had in mind since the very start, is much much less likely to change unless everyone starts guessing it.
There's also a difference between "The hyper obsessive fans figured it out" and "even the casual audience has figured it out and everyone knows it's coming." Like for instance, its generally considered on this board a given that Mihawk will no longer be Zoro's final fight for a whole variety of storytelling and emotional weight and climax reasons…. but thats just not something that is going to have occurred to the audience at large and will be a huge shock to the general audience if/when it happens.
If the story was getting so obvious that we all knew the exact layout from here to the end, he'll mix it up. That may be why elements like IM and Rox are introduced, because the final showdown being with the Blackbeards has been setup and foreshadowed for so long now, and we're plowing through the emporers and the series is going into its third decade, so there's got to be some new wild cards along the way.