If anything Kanjuro helped this arc he's weird and i like that
Chapter 797: Rebecca
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One Piece has never been about amazing fights, they're pretty much average if even that. They are nothing more then a means to an end, everything around it is what sets One Piece apart. Problem was the running/fighting went on for way too long so we got less One Piece defining moments at the latter half of the arc.
Well Nami vs Miss Doublefinger is still one of the best fights ever. We need more fights like that, and less of "strawhat or ally beats villain through sheer strenght". We still need those, but maybe not as frequently
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One Piece fights are "average"? Ya kidding? Interested to see what Shounen manga you consider to have the best fights.
If the answer is Bleach, Naruto, or Fairy Tail, I'll flip.
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Well Nami vs Miss Doublefinger is still one of the best fights ever. We need more fights like that, and less of "strawhat or ally beats villain through sheer strenght". We still need those, but maybe not as frequently
Yeah that's the big problem, te sheer willpower and strength fights. Usopps fights are pretty good though, now that I think of it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
One Piece fights are "average"? Ya kidding? Interested to see what Shounen manga you consider to have the best fights.
If the answer is Bleach, Naruto, or Fairy Tail, I'll flip.
Bleach and Fairy Tail fights are even worse, they're garbage. Naruto is mostly mediocre too, but some of pre shippuden(?) fights like Shikamaru's fights are better than any in One Piece. One Piece simply shines in every other area that is not combat. Go flip :)
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This notion that plot and fights are somehow totally separate things needs to die in a fire. Seriously. Has anyone who says that ever heard the term "battle manga"? Like it or not, One Piece is and has aaalways been one. Fights have always taken a prominent role because they're the primary way conflicts are resolved. In case you didn't know, resolution of conflicts is important in storytelling. In a story about politics, conflicts are resolved through maneuvering, argument, influence. In OP, conflicts are resolved through people clashing their own means of physically overpowering the opponent against the opponent's means of doing the same. Thus it's important, crucial even, that this process is well thought out and executed. That is not remotely done in order to satisfy power level whores or whatever.
Hence we can easily see the reason why fights in One Piece have always been fleshed out with regards to both elements of both fighting choreography/ability interaction, which is the mechanics, and dialogue/clash of ideals, which is the clash of the underlying reasons for the conflict. Both are important for a good delivery. For most of OP's history, hence, Oda has used both liberally and well.But since the timeskip he's massively skimping out on the mechanics side by usage of this "only the end matters" writing tactic and, by virtue of the massive off-paneling, he's even losing track of the clash of ideals and such - though to a lesser extent. Overall, this is what has caused the quality of the fights to degrade massively, as the majority of people here would tell you. And at the heart of it lies the culprits named off-paneling, lack of focus and perhaps most dishearteningly, Rule of Cool and forced drama becoming all the more prominent. Oda is still capable of writing good fights as in the old days; he proved that with the Zoro vs. Ryuuma-reminiscent Law vs. Smoker duel. But he's neglecting it and quality suffers as a result. We want him to stop neglecting it and start writing fights as well as he used to, as he's still capable of; and to hell with the idea that that somehow makes us people who just obsess with power levels and don't understand that "plot" is what matters.
Because in OP, fights are almost entirely the resolution to the conflicts set up by the plot. If you don't understand why that means fights should go through great effort to be fleshed out, thorough, satisyfing and well written, you're the one who doesn't understand how OP delivers and progresses its plot.
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Having reread One Piece a number of times, and recently some others I thought had good fights, I've come to the conclusion that fights, at least in Shonen manga, do not interest me in the slightest. Sure, I liked seeing Arlong, Kuro, Crocodile, Enel, etc. get what was coming to them, but I was less interested in the fights and more the outcome and what happened after. I really didn't feel the arc dragging till near the end of the fighting because any development came to a halt. This arc wasn't too bad since we got some development during fights, which made it better in my eyes.
Sai inherited the Happou Navy after learning the signature technique, which allowed Don Chinjao to step down. We also got some development of Baby 5 which her little quirk turned out to be quite dark. Usopp got to develop observation haki in probably the best chapter of the arc (sorry Franky, I love ya but that was way too awesome). Senor Pink went from "this guy is all right" to "I love this guy" in the last chapter of his fight. One chapter packed so much emotion than some can do in a whole arc or series. With the Diamante fight, Kyros and Rebecca got resolution for Scarlett's killer, and while I do wish Rebecca had more relevance, I still liked it overall. The problem was after that it was a slow drag to stop bird cage and finish Doflamingo.
My biggest problem with the Doflamingo fight is still the lack of the two duking it out in some way. In arcs before this, you got to a point where Luffy and his opponent would be dueling it out till the last person fell. That's why Lucci V Luffy is the only fight I still can really like to this day, because two forces of nature were duking it out till the last punch. This fight lacked that. Doflamingo had the edge, then Luffy, then Doflamingo, then Luffy gave the final punch. If the two of them at the end were duking it out with both of their stamina almost drained, I think it would've looked cooler once Luffy did his last attack. I know plot demanded it done this way, but it still didn't help. In the end I liked it because seeing Doflamingo get his just desserts was great.
In the end, I love the arc, but the main fault comes down to too many plot points. Some were better than others, but few were developed very well. Laws story and character were great, but we need a satisfying conclusion to make that part great. You did get a feeling that many suffered under Doflamingo's rule, but too many aspects to focus on (Dwarves, various Riku family members, citizens) didn't allow for one to get a well rounded development. Instead you get adequate enough but the resolutions rang a bit hollow. I still like Rebecca and Kyros, and the conclusion was nice, but it didn't feel as good as it could've been. Viola, who had to work for Doflamingo, got sidelined pretty quickly and it seems she won't be getting any resolution for the most part. King Riku, while tragic what happened to him, there wasn't enough for us to be like "yay he's back". Instead it's more like "At least it's not Doflamingo". While I was able to excuse the citizens for a while, the focus on them this much has ruined it a bit and makes us not want to be glad for them, whether their reactions are excusable or not. Dwarves were adorable, but they got sidelined for a while and the eventual ending of getting Mansherry was also hollow. Nice that they aren't slaves anymore, but the most I could say is it's good they aren't slaves. There really wasn't much investment with them.
So all the plot points, while it did help build certain parts of the story, the individual payoff for each of them was less than stellar. I don't personally think any of them were bad, just things that had possibilities and ended up far from reaching what it could've been. For everything that was shoved in though, I am satisfied overall but it still doesn't excuse the problems.
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This notion that plot and fights are somehow totally separate things needs to die in a fire. Seriously. Has anyone who says that ever heard the term "battle manga"? Like it or not, One Piece is and has aaalways been one. Fights have always taken a prominent role because they're the primary way conflicts are resolved. In case you didn't know, resolution of conflicts is important in storytelling. In a story about politics, conflicts are resolved through maneuvering, argument, influence. In OP, conflicts are resolved through people clashing their own means of physically overpowering the opponent against the opponent's means of doing the same. Thus it's important, crucial even, that this process is well thought out and executed. That is not remotely done in order to satisfy power level whores or whatever.
Whoever said that? Just wondering.
Hence we can easily see the reason why fights in One Piece have always been fleshed out with regards to both elements of both fighting choreography/ability interaction, which is the mechanics, and dialogue/clash of ideals, which is the clash of the underlying reasons for the conflict. Both are important for a good delivery. For most of OP's history, hence, Oda has used both liberally and well.But since the timeskip he's massively skimping out on the mechanics side by usage of this "only the end matters" writing tactic and, by virtue of the massive off-paneling, he's even losing track of the clash of ideals and such - though to a lesser extent. Overall, this is what has caused the quality of the fights to degrade massively, as the majority of people here would tell you. And at the heart of it lies the culprits named off-paneling, lack of focus and perhaps most dishearteningly, Rule of Cool and forced drama becoming all the more prominent. Oda is still capable of writing good fights as in the old days; he proved that with the Zoro vs. Ryuuma-reminiscent Law vs. Smoker duel. But he's neglecting it and quality suffers as a result. We want him to stop neglecting it and start writing fights as well as he used to, as he's still capable of; and to hell with the idea that that somehow makes us people who just obsess with power levels and don't understand that "plot" is what matters.
Because in OP, fights are almost entirely the resolution to the conflicts set up by the plot. If you don't understand why that means fights should go through great effort to be fleshed out, thorough, satisyfing and well written, you're the one who doesn't understand how OP delivers and progresses its plot.
Exactly. Though still average imo, it was at least better than it has been this arc.
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Kanjuro wasn't a problem in this arc. Even if you don't like him, he's enough of a background character that you can't say he actively hurt this arc. Even if you combine all the pages featuring any sort of focus on him you probably wouldn't have a full chapter.
I would add an excessive number of speeches and the mindless sheeple of Dressrosa to your list of faults. If ever there was an instance to use that normally idiotic term, it's to describe Dressrosa's citizens.
I think regarding Kanjuro I was hoping he'd be a cool looking Samurai, not a funny looking one. His design kept changing so it wasn't totally unexpected and I do hope he plays a bigger part in future to change my opinion of him. Maybe the third lost Samurai will be cool and not weird.
I can't believe I missed out the sheeple. Good catch. "where's Lucy we want to thank him"
"he has taken Rebecca, maybe he wants a ransom"He just defeated Doffy, who is quite well off as far as riches are concerned if he wanted money or the likes he could just take it. The illegal trade port alone probably has some valuable items.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Shobu:
The best villain is Crocodile, gets army, goes for a kingdom which holds info about the greatest weapon in history and having fun while it to strike the world… not just some galant nonchalant spoiled boy keeping his family land's for x reason making business with everyone and having the cover desire to be pirate king.
Yep, he was nerfed. Put me Luffy Vs Dofla without damage and Dofla wins undoubtedly, he's indeed the skilled person seen in One Piece.
Crocodile wanted to be pirate king too. Miss Goldenweek's abilities made that even more obvious in a cover story
I do like Crocodile a lot but recently he's been more of a good guy, or even neutral. So my memory of him as a villain is starting to fade.
But to be fair a lot of the villains that the strawhats defeat somehow wind up doing good for themselves. Baroque works members became friends, helped each other break out of G2 base and opened up a café. Enel found some interesting shit on the moon and is shown in a positive light with him smiling a lot. Crocodile actually turned down the opportunity to escape along with Mr. 1, they weren't hell bent on revenge or anything, they licked their wounds and calmed down a lot. CP9 members put on a show for people and kids to raise money while on the run. Caribou helped out a granny.I don't think Doffy will ever do any of those sorts of things even after his defeat, he's "evil's champion".
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Bleach and Fairy Tail fights are even worse, they're garbage. Naruto is mostly mediocre too, but some of pre shippuden(?) fights like Shikamaru's fights are better than any in One Piece. One Piece simply shines in every other area that is not combat. Go flip :)
Early Naruto fights were great, but combat in One Piece is great too so I can't understand your point of view on this. Naruto has a more relastic approach in part 1 so I'll give you that coupled with more strategic battles that were more about ninja tactics and how to counter them to an extent.. excluding chakra of course, because for the most part it had a lot of hand to hand combat that, imo was more believable from a real world stand point.
Basically Naruto had awesome battle: Yes and so has One Piece: Again yes, so to say ones battles completely outshine the other is a tough call. Both have their pros and cons, and for you Naruto's battles outweighs the pros of One Pieces's battles but for me the scale doesn't quite dwarf One Piece's Pro's to that end. Also I forgot to mention I don't think One Piece fights are mediocre overall, there is quite a bit of creativity in the mix.
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I know I'm guilty of hyping things up in the past but I insist You guys watch the latest episode of One Piece. Will go down as one of the best episodes ever. Did the manga justice and then some.
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I know I'm guilty of hyping things up in the past but I insist You guys watch the latest episode of One Piece. Will go down as one of the best episodes ever. Did the manga justice and then some.
I was just about to in about 10 minutes, I haven't watched any episodes these past few months so I hope your not trying to trick me or something :ninja:
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Though I will say, if I listed the negatives it would be more than 5 times as long. Don't wanna give you an aneurysm though.
I can figure out what was negative and I not think it can be 5 times longer.
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Your negatives and my negatives don't have to match.
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Early Naruto fights were great, but combat in One Piece is great too so I can't understand your point of view on this. Naruto has a more relastic approach in part 1 so I'll give you that coupled with more strategic battles that were more about ninja tactics and how to counter them to an extent.. excluding chakra of course, because for the most part it had a lot of hand to hand combat that, imo was more believable from a real world stand point.
Basically Naruto had awesome battle: Yes and so has One Piece: Again yes, so to say ones battles completely outshine the other is a tough call. Both have their pros and cons, and for you Naruto's battles outweighs the pros of One Pieces's battles but for me the scale doesn't quite dwarf One Piece's Pro's to that end. Also I forgot to mention I don't think One Piece fights are mediocre overall, there is quite a bit of creativity in the mix.
It's mostly the tactical part I think. It's definitely not dwarving OP by any means, but overall I'd say it's a lot more varied in part one of the manga/anime than in OP. Where in OP fights that aren't just willpower and strength based are very few and far in between. Just this arc it has been that for the vast majority of the fights. From OP it's mostly Usopp and some cases of Luffy (like using water/blood to hit Croc) that stand out to me.
OP dwarfs everything else in a lot of other areas though imo, just not in fighting.
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Nami was a useless ball of tears during the Arlong arc. Overwhelming emotion or past history mesing with someone are nothing new in the series. Its not even strictly just a female thing, Ace was full of angst and crying during marineford… and even Luffy was a blubbering mess after reuniting with Sabo.
And Franky cries at the drop of a hat on a regular basis.
Nami was not useless in Arlong Park. She saved both Zoro and Usopp.
Not that I am disagreeing with the crying being a general thing. But Nami did her part in Arlong Park.
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This notion that plot and fights are somehow totally separate things needs to die in a fire. etc..
Oh it is nice to see someone who share my point of view so completely. Thanks.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
One Piece fights are "average"? Ya kidding? Interested to see what Shounen manga you consider to have the best fights.
If the answer is Bleach, Naruto, or Fairy Tail, I'll flip.
Nakaba is doing a good job at the moment but One Piece fights are not average (generally). Oda masters his idea of devil fruit after all.
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! This notion that plot and fights are somehow totally separate things needs to die in a fire. Seriously. Has anyone who says that ever heard the term "battle manga"? Like it or not, One Piece is and has aaalways been one. Fights have always taken a prominent role because they're the primary way conflicts are resolved. In case you didn't know, resolution of conflicts is important in storytelling. In a story about politics, conflicts are resolved through maneuvering, argument, influence. In OP, conflicts are resolved through people clashing their own means of physically overpowering the opponent against the opponent's means of doing the same. Thus it's important, crucial even, that this process is well thought out and executed. That is not remotely done in order to satisfy power level whores or whatever.
! Hence we can easily see the reason why fights in One Piece have always been fleshed out with regards to both elements of both fighting choreography/ability interaction, which is the mechanics, and dialogue/clash of ideals, which is the clash of the underlying reasons for the conflict. Both are important for a good delivery. For most of OP's history, hence, Oda has used both liberally and well.But since the timeskip he's massively skimping out on the mechanics side by usage of this "only the end matters" writing tactic and, by virtue of the massive off-paneling, he's even losing track of the clash of ideals and such - though to a lesser extent. Overall, this is what has caused the quality of the fights to degrade massively, as the majority of people here would tell you. And at the heart of it lies the culprits named off-paneling, lack of focus and perhaps most dishearteningly, Rule of Cool and forced drama becoming all the more prominent. Oda is still capable of writing good fights as in the old days; he proved that with the Zoro vs. Ryuuma-reminiscent Law vs. Smoker duel. But he's neglecting it and quality suffers as a result. We want him to stop neglecting it and start writing fights as well as he used to, as he's still capable of; and to hell with the idea that that somehow makes us people who just obsess with power levels and don't understand that "plot" is what matters.
! Because in OP, fights are almost entirely the resolution to the conflicts set up by the plot. If you don't understand why that means fights should go through great effort to be fleshed out, thorough, satisyfing and well written, you're the one who doesn't understand how OP delivers and progresses its plot.I agree. There was a similar discussion earlier this year.
You can't say fighting isn't that important when you consider fighting is practically the only talent main character has, and most of the important characters in the story are fighters. Most of the conflicts so far were resolved with fights. Luffy's favourite catchphrase isn't "I'll make them reconsider their stance with my arguments!" it's "I'll send them flying!".
So, when I'm disappointed with fights in this arc, it's not because nothing besides fighting is important, it's because the combination of all those different characters with different abilities on different sides looked a lot more promising than it turned out. But I don't want to go back on why Dofla's executives suck donkey balls.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh it is nice to see someone who share my point of view so completely. Thanks.
Same here.
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One Piece fights are "average"? Ya kidding? Interested to see what Shounen manga you consider to have the best fights.
If the answer is Bleach, Naruto, or Fairy Tail, I'll flip.
If you don't mind to take a look at an advanced chapter, enjoy it!
It's the same author kdom was talking about, Nakaba Tuszuki. That fight is as good as Vergo vs Smoker. Well, it's even better tbh.
I agree OP is not average, but it's far away from its better achievements. Zoro vs Pica was disappointing with Pica giving Zoro his back… Damn, Zoro didn't deserved that treatment.
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I was just about to in about 10 minutes, I haven't watched any episodes these past few months so I hope your not trying to trick me or something :ninja:
Hope it didn't disappoint?
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One Piece doesn't have the greatest fights but it more than makes up for that in emotion and adventure. One thing that sometimes bugs me is that a lot of opponents are protected by superior agility or some defensive ability, but once our fighter figures it out they go down in 1-2 hits.
CP9 is an exception, but most of Baroque Works and the Donquixote family went down after one or two good hits. I think Sanji and Luffy are the only ones who regularly have to land multiple blows.
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If you don't mind to take a look at an advanced chapter, enjoy it!
It's the same author kdom was talking about, Nakaba Tuszuki. That fight is as good as Vergo vs Smoker. Well, it's even better tbh.
I agree OP is not average, but it's far away from its better achievements. Zoro vs Pica was disappointing with Pica giving Zoro his back… Damn, Zoro didn't deserved that treatment.
I feel like Oda watches a lot more MMA than these nerds. In my opinion fights like the one here are just a massive pile of look at how cool and tricky i am. Oda's fights are more (for me personally as it's an opinion) grounded.
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This notion that plot and fights are somehow totally separate things needs to die in a fire. Seriously. Has anyone who says that ever heard the term "battle manga"? Like it or not, One Piece is and has aaalways been one. Fights have always taken a prominent role because they're the primary way conflicts are resolved. In case you didn't know, resolution of conflicts is important in storytelling. In a story about politics, conflicts are resolved through maneuvering, argument, influence. In OP, conflicts are resolved through people clashing their own means of physically overpowering the opponent against the opponent's means of doing the same. Thus it's important, crucial even, that this process is well thought out and executed. That is not remotely done in order to satisfy power level whores or whatever.
Hence we can easily see the reason why fights in One Piece have always been fleshed out with regards to both elements of both fighting choreography/ability interaction, which is the mechanics, and dialogue/clash of ideals, which is the clash of the underlying reasons for the conflict. Both are important for a good delivery. For most of OP's history, hence, Oda has used both liberally and well.But since the timeskip he's massively skimping out on the mechanics side by usage of this "only the end matters" writing tactic and, by virtue of the massive off-paneling, he's even losing track of the clash of ideals and such - though to a lesser extent. Overall, this is what has caused the quality of the fights to degrade massively, as the majority of people here would tell you. And at the heart of it lies the culprits named off-paneling, lack of focus and perhaps most dishearteningly, Rule of Cool and forced drama becoming all the more prominent. Oda is still capable of writing good fights as in the old days; he proved that with the Zoro vs. Ryuuma-reminiscent Law vs. Smoker duel. But he's neglecting it and quality suffers as a result. We want him to stop neglecting it and start writing fights as well as he used to, as he's still capable of; and to hell with the idea that that somehow makes us people who just obsess with power levels and don't understand that "plot" is what matters.
Because in OP, fights are almost entirely the resolution to the conflicts set up by the plot. If you don't understand why that means fights should go through great effort to be fleshed out, thorough, satisyfing and well written, you're the one who doesn't understand how OP delivers and progresses its plot.
The funny thing is that the arc is perhaps the one with the most fights ever.
5 chapters after the start of Dressrosa and we were already having B-Block, then C-Block, Sanji vs. Doula Mongo, Law vs. Doula Mongo at the bridge, the Colosseum finals, Franky at the Toy House, Luffy vs. Doula Mongo at the palace, officer fights, Sabo vs. Fujitora and then Doula Mongo (featuring Trebol and Bellamy). They certainly had a prominent role.
I would say that the only skipped fight that needed more proper focus was Usopp vs. Trebol, but everything else had good reasons to be skipped (C-Block was happening during Law vs. Doflamingo vs. Fujitora, Franky at the Toy House was happening during Operation SOP which was also happening during the Colosseum finals). Many fights weren't skipped at all, they just weren't shown in a continuous way.
Also, you have to take in account that the cast is more numerous now, so we can't expect everyone to get fleshed out fights. It was fine when the crew was just 4-6 people, but even then we had some who were left out (Robin in Enies Lobby, for example).
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Zoro vs Pica was disappointing with Pica giving Zoro his back… Damn, Zoro didn't deserved that treatment.
I never thought about it this way. You think like a samurai. Cool.
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Fuji riding a rock reminded anyone else of this?
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If you don't mind to take a look at an advanced chapter, enjoy it!
It's the same author kdom was talking about, Nakaba Tuszuki. That fight is as good as Vergo vs Smoker. Well, it's even better tbh.
I agree OP is not average, but it's far away from its better achievements. Zoro vs Pica was disappointing with Pica giving Zoro his back… Damn, Zoro didn't deserved that treatment.
Show him the fight when the final attack can't be done because a missed step
Pica wasn't even a swordman… to me, it was the best fight. Zoro finally showed his cutting power at 100%.
Dranza, you'll have to excuse me but Crocodile wanted to be Pirate King without reaching Raftel, that's better than any simple dream.
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Also, you have to take in account that the cast is more numerous now, so we can't expect everyone to get fleshed out fights. It was fine when the crew was just 4-6 people, but even then we had some who were left out (Robin in Enies Lobby, for example).
That could be overcome with combination fights like in Thriller Bark.
And even if Dressrosa has lot of fighting scenes none of them is really memorable apart rare exceptions. Which is the point. -
I always found Thriller Bark fights pretty below avarage. Luffy vs Moria just didn't live up to my hype.
And follow 7 weeks of SHs vs Oars was a little painful. -
But SHs vs Oars was one of the highlights of that arc.
Luffy wasn't around, but the whole crew gave oars a hell of a fight until he showed up,
demonstrating some great teamwork and badass determination.It was a shining moment for the crew, and a rare treat.
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If that damn tree would have join the crew instead of Brook, Thriller Bark could had been a good arc.
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That could be overcome with combination fights like in Thriller Bark.
And even if Dressrosa has lot of fighting scenes none of them is really memorable apart rare exceptions. Which is the point.Technically, the whole thing was a big combination fight. Jora faced 3 Straw Hats. Dellinger took out 4 characters before succumbing to Hakuba after joining Gladius, who faced both Cavendish and Bartolomeo. Lao G fought both Chinjao and Sai, with Baby 5 involved in there too. Even Zoro and Kyros got some help here and there with Orlumbus/Robin. And let's not even talk about Luffy vs. Doula Mongo (featuring Law and Trebol). Only Franky and Senor Pink had a true one-on-one fight.
The memorability problem comes more from the fights not being continuous, but they were mostly shown.
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@MDL:
But SHs vs Oars was one of the highlights of that arc.
Luffy wasn't around, but the whole crew gave oars a hell of a fight until he showed up,
demonstrating some great teamwork and badass determination.It was a shining moment for the crew, and a rare treat.
The group fight was also really important because it translated to hype for the Pacifista later in Sabaody and provided contrast to seeing the Strawhats get annihilated Kizaru and Sentomaru. It was their last big victory before the timeskip and it came as a team.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Technically, the whole thing was a big combination fight. Jora faced 3 Straw Hats. Dellinger took out 4 characters before succumbing to Hakuba after joining Gladius, who faced both Cavendish and Bartolomeo. Lao G fought both Chinjao and Sai, with Baby 5 involved in there too. Even Zoro and Kyros got some help here and there with Orlumbus/Robin. And let's not even talk about Luffy vs. Doula Mongo (featuring Law and Trebol). Only Franky and Senor Pink had a true one-on-one fight.
The memorability problem comes more from the fights not being continuous, but they were mostly shown.
Even Machvise pounded Boo into the ground before tying with Hajrudin.
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@Shobu:
If that damn tree would have join the crew instead of Brook, Thriller Bark could had been a good arc.
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@Shobu:
If that damn tree would have join the crew instead of Brook, Thriller Bark could had been a good arc.
Say sorry to brook! Haha
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This next chapter Bellamy will join Barto's crew like Mr3 did with Buggy at the end of Impel Down
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This next chapter Bellamy will join Barto's crew like Mr3 did with Buggy at the end of Impel Down
Hopefully, then Mugiwaras will have as allies a crew rewarded with 412 million (195.000.000 Bellamy + 150.000.000 Barto + 67.000.000 Gambia)
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While the arc still technically isn't over yet, I think it's pretty safe to assume we're wrapping up.
My overall feelings on this arc would probably be a rough 8 out of 10.
Pros:
The fights were overall well done and generally delivered.
The Donquixote Pirates were good villains.
Doflamingo himself was a great villain, one of the best in the manga (in my opinion)
Laws flashback was great. Probably the best we've had since the timeskip.
Doflamingo's backstory was also great, another one of the best flashbacks since the timeskip.
Even though I didn't really care for any of the Riku family, the flashback of how Doflamingo screwed them was pretty good.
Law got some good development this arc.
Gear Fourth was pretty good to see.
I'm interested to see what they do with Usopp's apparent haki.Cons:
Pretty much none of the Riku family characters interested me. Rebecca, Viola, Scarlett, King Riku, even Kyros was kind of a bore.
The Sabo reveal was underwhelming. I feel like it should have been far more epic than it was.
The dwarves generally suck.
The Colosseum battles simply didn't interest me all that much. All the name dropping only to have tons of characters one-shotted didn't help.
Nami continues to be useless.
Sanji kind of got the shaft this arc, and is feeling increasingly irrelevant.
Again, Robin didn't really get a fight. -
I have a question. Do you guys think Capone found the sunny team and fought them in this past 3 days? Because last we saw him he said he will definitely capture CC, and if he indeed is working for Big mom then he probably planned on capturing CC before the Tea party which means he already clashed with the sunny team.
The sunny team has been by themselves for 4 days now so I hope they did something big within those 4 days which we will get flashback on.
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One Piece doesn't have the greatest fights but it more than makes up for that in emotion and adventure. One thing that sometimes bugs me is that a lot of opponents are protected by superior agility or some defensive ability, but once our fighter figures it out they go down in 1-2 hits.
CP9 is an exception, but most of Baroque Works and the Donquixote family went down after one or two good hits. I think Sanji and Luffy are the only ones who regularly have to land multiple blows.
Good point. When comparing Doflamingo's crew to Baroque Works, they don't look as bad. Once again it was because of how good CP9 was. Still.. thinking back… Crocodile still wasn't the ONLY good fight back then. Daz Bones was a good fight. So was Mr 2. So at minumum, the monster trio all 3 had good fights. I also liked Nami's fight. I admit it wasn't great but it had her grow as a person as she wanted to fight more and in the end, she did! Hell, Robin felt like a credible threat back then and look how weak they make her look in Dressrosa.
I'd say in conclusion....no... instead... let's compare it.
Doflamingo vs Law and Luffy compared to Luffy vs Corocdile. Jeez. Both amazing fights. I don't need to pick a winner because both are too amazing to feel right with doing so. Don't get me wrong, both had flaws. But both were entertaining for me. I'm going to give them a tie by default.
Zoro vs Pica compared to Zoro vs Daz Bones.... I'd easily give this to vs Daz bones. While yes, in hindsight Zoro DID have to use his brains to outsmart Pica and find him...once he did, his haki easily overcame Pica. Daz bones was someone Zoro wasn't able to cut at all..and he had to learn how to cut steel to beat him. Basically the opposite of Zoro fight..this fight isn't even fair to compare because they are so fundamentally different. But it comes down to which one gave me a sense of suspense. Made me wanna know what would happen next. Daz Bones fight did that. Pica didn't.
Sanji vs Bon clay compared to Kyros vs Daimante...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...Sanji vs Bon Clay wins. NEXT.
Nami vs Miss Double finger compared to Franky vs Senior Pink. Ouch that's a tough one. Franky vs senior pink gave us a flash back that hit me with feels. On the other hand, the fight itself was kind of stupid. It was a manliness contest where they kept grappling each other and trying to simply tank the damage. An endurance test more than a fight really. Nami had to overcome her weakness to become truly strong and feel like she was worthy of fighting with the others. Major character growth so I'm going to have to give it to Nami vs Miss double finger.
Usopp vs Sugar vs Usopp and chopper playing wack a mole. I felt the wack a mole fight was super lame. Upon rewatches I usually skip it now. Meanwhile Usopp vs sugar was both funny and lead to him unlocking Haki. I give it to Usopp vs Sugar easily.
Aside from those fights...Alabasta did have booger bomb and Mr 3 but they're simply likable characters. The fights I barely remember even. In Dressrosa I give honorable mention to Barto vs Gladius. Loved that fight. Showed him have to push himself to become worthy of helping Luffy so to speak..and in the end paid homage to his Senpai with his own barrier variant. Good fight. I'll also note that Dellinger was cool until he got beaten but I give it SOME slack since he was beaten by Hakuba of all people.
Still...all that said, Dressrosa vs Alabasta IS alot more fair than comparing it to Enis Lobby. Makes Dressrosa definitely less bad. More able to forgive some things.
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I absolutely love Brook, for the record. Sure, it was sad that Zoro had to get his Shadow back for him but I still absolutely love Brook as a character and as a musician. Also Bink's Sake is my jam! (I know he didn't create that song but still..)
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This notion that plot and fights are somehow totally separate things needs to die in a fire. Seriously. Has anyone who says that ever heard the term "battle manga"? Like it or not, One Piece is and has aaalways been one. Fights have always taken a prominent role because they're the primary way conflicts are resolved. In case you didn't know, resolution of conflicts is important in storytelling. In a story about politics, conflicts are resolved through maneuvering, argument, influence. In OP, conflicts are resolved through people clashing their own means of physically overpowering the opponent against the opponent's means of doing the same. Thus it's important, crucial even, that this process is well thought out and executed. That is not remotely done in order to satisfy power level whores or whatever.
Hence we can easily see the reason why fights in One Piece have always been fleshed out with regards to both elements of both fighting choreography/ability interaction, which is the mechanics, and dialogue/clash of ideals, which is the clash of the underlying reasons for the conflict. Both are important for a good delivery. For most of OP's history, hence, Oda has used both liberally and well.But since the timeskip he's massively skimping out on the mechanics side by usage of this "only the end matters" writing tactic and, by virtue of the massive off-paneling, he's even losing track of the clash of ideals and such - though to a lesser extent. Overall, this is what has caused the quality of the fights to degrade massively, as the majority of people here would tell you. And at the heart of it lies the culprits named off-paneling, lack of focus and perhaps most dishearteningly, Rule of Cool and forced drama becoming all the more prominent. Oda is still capable of writing good fights as in the old days; he proved that with the Zoro vs. Ryuuma-reminiscent Law vs. Smoker duel. But he's neglecting it and quality suffers as a result. We want him to stop neglecting it and start writing fights as well as he used to, as he's still capable of; and to hell with the idea that that somehow makes us people who just obsess with power levels and don't understand that "plot" is what matters.
Because in OP, fights are almost entirely the resolution to the conflicts set up by the plot. If you don't understand why that means fights should go through great effort to be fleshed out, thorough, satisyfing and well written, you're the one who doesn't understand how OP delivers and progresses its plot.
Adding on to this, fights are also an excellent source for character development, or at the very very least, good character moments. Robin vs Yama is not just great because its Kewl Fightin' stuff, but because its chock full of Robin-ness, of memorable in-character Robin moments and zingers. Sure, you could obliterate the integrity of the fight, scatter it all over the place and cut right to the end in the name of "saving time" or whatever, but it would never be the same- all the Robin moments needed the context, pace and choreography of the full fight to hit with maximum force. A smattering of separated micro-moments (Wow, Robin blocked an attack on Rebecca in some incomprehensible way!), where the camera never lingers and instead flutters to the next character/plotline begging for paneltime, doesn't have the same impact or memorability as the focused character spotlight a full fight provides.
Anyway, good post. Hope to see more in the same vein.
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Hopefully, then Mugiwaras will have as allies a crew rewarded with 412 million (195.000.000 Bellamy + 150.000.000 Barto + 67.000.000 Gambia)
Did I forget? who's Gambia?
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Bartolomeo's comrade.
Farul is much more relevant.
Oh yeah I remember now. Barto's gotta have way better crewmates than that
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Can you guys imagine a Dressrosa without Becca
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@Daz:
Adding on to this, fights are also an excellent source for character development, or at the very very least, good character moments. Robin vs Yama is not just great because its Kewl Fightin' stuff, but because its chock full of Robin-ness, of memorable in-character Robin moments and zingers. Sure, you could obliterate the integrity of the fight, scatter it all over the place and cut right to the end in the name of "saving time" or whatever, but it would never be the same- all the Robin moments needed the context, pace and choreography of the full fight to hit with maximum force. A smattering of separated micro-moments (Wow, Robin blocked an attack on Rebecca in some incomprehensible way!), where the camera never lingers and instead flutters to the next character/plotline begging for paneltime, doesn't have the same impact or memorability as the focused character spotlight a full fight provides.
Anyway, good post. Hope to see more in the same vein.
As far as Robin v Yama, wasn't that a one chapter fight? From what I remember she came up upon some ruins and was fascinated with it. Then here comes Yama who attacks her and doesn't care about what is being done. This is where Robin gets a bit of development and shows off her anger and throws the guy off the clouds. Nothing to really scatter over, since it was a quick done and over with.
This arc seemed to show some small stuff here and there, but the most important part was the end for these characters. Sai developed the technique and inherited the Happou Navy. Harujin gave a little insight into Elbaf and showed his ambition. Bartolomeo came out and actually took an attack head on and admitted he needed to get better after seeing his heroes in action. Senor Pink got his development before he was defeated. How people like the Robin part versus this part may vary, but each chapter focused on the particular fight and development was made.
Also, in the end it was only the Zoro and Franky fight that I recall getting coverage over many chapters. For the others, I remember panels showing the respective opponents, and maybe one or two panels at one point before they got a chapter to show their fight. While I'm still not a fan overall of the fights, I don't agree that they are unnecessary or can't have development.
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@The:
As far as Robin v Yama, wasn't that a one chapter fight?
Mostly… Robin played defensive in chapter 264 to get out of the ruins and then started wrecking Yama in 265. I like to think of it as a two chapter fight though since Yama was on the attack for both.
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Mostly… Robin played defensive in chapter 264 to get out of the ruins and then started wrecking Yama in 265. I like to think of it as a two chapter fight though since Yama was on the attack for both.
Ah, okay. Been so long that I read Skypea that I forgot. Fight felt pretty short in the end for me that there wasn't much that could be done to cut out to change the scene. That was one I liked mainly because that was the first time we saw genuine anger out of Robin, who usually was always calm and collected. Her scenes in general tend to be quite good, especially with the "I want to live" scene being what I consider one of the most powerful scenes in the series. It was a good bit like the Nami asking for help scene, but there was more involved in that arc.
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There were some people who trief to convince me that this chapter will be great.
Oh well I'll keep trusting my gut feeling lol
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@The:
Also, in the end it was only the Zoro and Franky fight that I recall getting coverage over many chapters. For the others, I remember panels showing the respective opponents, and maybe one or two panels at one point before they got a chapter to show their fight. While I'm still not a fan overall of the fights, I don't agree that they are unnecessary or can't have development.
Cabbage and Romeo versus Gladius was basically a two chapter fight and easily in my top 5 for the arc. Kyros vs. Diamante also received a couple scattered pages instead of just the quick check-up panels, but it was less entertaining for a variety of reasons.
If you consider that two of the Donquixote members were defeated by gladiators they barely even fought at all then yeah, a lot of those fights lacked development.