I'm gonna get myself sooo drunk if Trump manages to win.
Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!
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I don't see what the problem is with idealogically feeling one way, or merely not wanting to be automatically labeled (because party affiliation WILL affect what kind of mail you get and other things too), but realizing in practice that it still reduces to very few choices. Just look around right now; people who want to vote for 3rd parties or not vote at all get (rightfully) pounced on for possibly screwing our country to make a personal statement… but your actual party affiliation, which affects NOBODY BUT YOURSELF, should be whatever you feel comfortable with. Are there going to be people going Independent just to feel like one of the cool kids? I'm sure. But that becomes more about individual cases. If someone says "I'm an Independent" it should only matter if they're somehow trying to use it to justify a stance that has nothing to do with that, and that's the only way you can compare it to people who say "I'm a moderate" but then go on to explain viewpoints that are far from moderate.
If people want to choose Independent because that's what they're comfortable with, ok, I've long pointed out why partisanship would drive that, but there's a difference between voting party and voting policy, as you demonstrated. We're talking about Independents who are voting for the party they lean towards regardless of policy. Which turns out to be a lot of Independents.
But if truly being Independent is solely based on one's word and that's it then, fine, we can go with that. It's good enough for me, really, but that deoesn't dismiss other factors of why people might claim Independent. Nor does it dismiss the studies and work done to examine this group explaining the reasons for the increase of registered Independents.
So there you have it. 1/3 of Americans are Independent.
Edit: 42 Percent .
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I'm gonna get myself sooo drunk if Trump manages to win.
For the next four years. How much do you have to drink to have permanent memory loss?
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I'm gonna get myself sooo drunk if Trump manages to win.
Moving out of the country is an actual thing I have discussed with people. I have someone in Australia who is ready and willing to take me in.
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For the next four years. How much do you have to drink to have permanent memory loss?
Memory loss is not effective against nuclear Armageddon, though ='(. On the bright side, we'd go down very happy…
You guys can come over to Germany though, first round's on me :DMoving out of the country is an actual thing I have discussed with people. I have someone in Australia who is ready and willing to take me in.
Australia is awesome, though I hope you won't have to resort to this.
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Cut the little chicken bullshit, will ya?
Some of ABC's recent polls are assuming that Latino turnout will be less than 2012 and have less of them in the sample as a result. Meanwhile that ORC poll from Nevada that looked good from Trump apparently didn't even have a crosstab for Latinos.
So little wonder that some of them are looking better for him lately.
So this means they are… rigged.
Right?
Back in the 2012 election a pollster had Romney leading Obama by 9 points. No need to remind you how that ended up.
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I told the professor of my night class that I'm probably not going to show up on Tuesday because I'll probably be downing as much Coca Cola as I can at a TGI Fridays after 6 while watching the meltdown on Fox.
She was completely understanding.
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@Cyan:
I told the professor of my night class that I'm probably not going to show up on Tuesday because I'll probably be downing as much Coca Cola as I can at a TGI Fridays after 6 while watching the meltdown on Fox.
She was completely understanding.
Man, I wish mine was as understanding as yours.
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If people want to choose Independent because that's what they're comfortable with, ok, I've long pointed out why partisanship would drive that, but there's a difference between voting party and voting policy, as you demonstrated. We're talking about Independents who are voting for the party they lean towards regardless of policy. Which turns out to be a lot of Independents.
But if truly being Independent is solely based on one's word and that's it then, fine, we can go with that. It's good enough for me, really, but that deoesn't dismiss other factors of why people might claim Independent. Nor does it dismiss the studies and work done to examine this group explaining the reasons for the increase of registered Independents.
So there you have it. 1/3 of Americans are Independent.
Edit: 42 Percent .
I don't even understand your point here. It sounds like you're still trying to work with a definition of Independent that's something like "will not vote for any single established party most of the time." And that's just plain wrong. Looking at that label and thinking you can extrapolate concrete voting behavior from it is plain wrong. My explanation perfectly accommodates practically any reason someone might identify that way, whether disenfranchisement or otherwise. And instead of "regardless of policy" how about what I already said which is "despite not matching my personal policy beliefs closely, it's currently the nearest realistic bet."
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Moving out of the country is an actual thing I have discussed with people. I have someone in Australia who is ready and willing to take me in.
I wonder how bad it would actually be under a Donald Trump presidency.
But, seriously, without exaggeration I'm confident in saying a Trump presidency could actually influence a good number of people to leave the country. You know, on top of the people who say they will totally leave the country but of course don't.
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I wonder how bad it would actually be under a Donald Trump presidency.
That tons of people would lose their healthcare is a guarantee so pretty awful. There's no way the Affordable Care Act survives a Trump Presidency and their only suggestion is the nonsensical one to let companies sell across state lines; the only thing that would accomplish is a race between states (particularly Delaware and South Dakota) to set the absolute minimum requirements to lure insurance companies there. Same thing that happened with the credit card companies.
Plus, based on negative reactions in foreign markets to closer poll numbers as well as our own stock market rallying after Clinton won the debates, I'm reasonably certain that the stock market would shut down early Wednesday because of safeguards that trigger after a steep drop. The business sector knows how bad the guy would be the economy.
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The business sector knows how bad the guy would be the economy.
Trump being the economy would be pretty bad who want to carry ugly orange colored money, printed on paper of terrible quality,that's also not worth it's stated value:ninja:.
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I don't even understand your point here. It sounds like you're still trying to work with a definition of Independent that's something like "will not vote for any single established party most of the time." And that's just plain wrong. Looking at that label and thinking you can extrapolate concrete voting behavior from it is plain wrong. My explanation perfectly accommodates practically any reason someone might identify that way, whether disenfranchisement or otherwise. And instead of "regardless of policy" how about what I already said which is "despite not matching my personal policy beliefs closely, it's currently the nearest realistic bet."
What? No. I'm clearly trying to distinguish between how different Independent voters vote, reason, and identify themselves. You're taking your experience and casting a wide net over the entire group as if all Independent voters think alike despite contrary data provided which has shown heavily partisan behavior. Partisan as in 'I'm voting for this party'. Not partisan as in 'I'm voting for this despite it not matching my personal policy beliefs closely, it's currently the nearest realistic bet.'
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So what do we make of this? If 28% of the early vote Clinton got in Florida was republican, how much do you expect the number to increase after the election? And since this is happening in Florida, then there's no reason not to believe this is happening elsewhere also.
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What? No. I'm clearly trying to distinguish between how different Independent voters vote, reason, and identify themselves. You're taking your experience and casting a wide net over the entire group as if all Independent voters think alike despite contrary data provided which has shown heavily partisan behavior. Partisan as in 'I'm voting for this party'. Not partisan as in 'I'm voting for this despite it not matching my personal policy beliefs closely, it's currently the nearest realistic bet.'
No, I'm using myself as an example of someone who always votes for one party but isn't affiliated with that party, and saying anyone could do it for any reason so I still completely fail to understand what your complaint is.
As for those two types of "partisan" can you explain to me how the two are any different? Is there a significant group of people out there going "I like this candidate from Party X who most closely matches my views and has a realistic chance of winning but instead I'm going to vote for Party Y that I dislike and P.S. I'm an Independent?" I can honestly think of only one explanation, which is people so clueless and uninterested in the political process that they just vote however their friends vote without caring or understanding the issues. And I think that is a gigantic portion of people but I don't think it's in any way a problem unique to Independents.
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That tons of people would lose their healthcare is a guarantee so pretty awful. There's no way the Affordable Care Act survives a Trump Presidency and their only suggestion is the nonsensical one to let companies sell across state lines; the only thing that would accomplish is a race between states (particularly Delaware and South Dakota) to set the absolute minimum requirements to lure insurance companies there. Same thing that happened with the credit card companies.
Plus, based on negative reactions in foreign markets to closer poll numbers as well as our own stock market rallying after Clinton won the debates, I'm reasonably certain that the stock market would shut down early Wednesday because of safeguards that trigger after a steep drop. The business sector knows how bad the guy would be the economy.
I always found it odd how objective facts can be mixed up and skewed with opinion. Like, if you look at how the market reacts to Trump, look at his business record, look at his dealings with his workers and business partners, look at his refusal to release his tax returns, look at the hundreds (thousands?) of lawsuits against him…how could anyone believe Trump would be the best candidate for the economy? Sure, you can say he might be "good" for the economy but voting for Trump specifically because the economy is your top issue? Because he's the best person for that job?! Why? How?
Because he's rich? Hillary Clinton is rich and she didn't lose almost a billion dollars.
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I remember that as a kid i was always wondering why an older relative of mine never told anybody who he voted for, i mean everybody else was really vocal about it. And now that i've grown up i realize why he didn't. I have no desire to get dragged into that trench war and deal with the identity bullshit that comes along with it.
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And since this is happening in Florida, then there's no reason not to believe this is happening elsewhere also.
A lot of that likely stems from the Cuban vote, who are usually staunch Republicans, and won't necessarily carry over to other states. If it's because of Republican women, though, that definitely would.
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No, I'm using myself as an example of someone who always votes for one party but isn't affiliated with that party, and saying anyone could do it for any reason so I still completely fail to understand what your complaint is.
As for those two types of "partisan" can you explain to me how the two are any different? Is there a significant group of people out there going "I like this candidate from Party X who most closely matches my views and has a realistic chance of winning but instead I'm going to vote for Party Y that I dislike and P.S. I'm an Independent?" I can honestly think of only one explanation, which is people so clueless and uninterested in the political process that they just vote however their friends vote without caring or understanding the issues. And I think that is a gigantic portion of people but I don't think it's in any way a problem unique to Independents.
No, honestly, I won't further explain because I'm tired of this discussion. Whatever point it is you can have the last word. This isn't a jab at you or anything and I like talking to you and all but I've been on this for like a whole day now.
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A lot of that likely stems from the Cuban vote, who are usually staunch Republicans, and won't necessarily carry over to other states. If it's because of Republican women, though, that definitely would.
What I'm going to say now may sound very impolite, but to me any woman that would be willing to vote for the orange retard means they also would have no qualms in having their buttholes raped by him. This is how I see it.
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Tell us how you really feel.
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What I'm going to say now may sound very impolite, but to me any woman that would be willing to vote for the orange retard means they also would have no qualms in having their buttholes raped by him. This is how I see it.
Reel it in buddy. You are way too crass
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I expected the backlash and I acknowledge I didn't use my best manners. But really, what kind of woman would vote for a self-confessed sexist and rapist.
At least it eases my mind to know that an overwhelming majority will never cast their vote for this asshole.
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I cringe at blacks voting for Trump but I wouldn't reason they need to be shot or locked up on "trumped" up charges.
I think a simple questioning of their mental faculties and lack of common sense would suffice.
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This is an interesting topic we're on.
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lol
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This is an interesting topic we're on.
Oh sorry we forgot your trigger warnings.
Guys, remember them.
For example.
[SAKONOSOLOTRIGGER]Racial issues exist still[/SAKONOSOLOTRIGGER]We will still see the text, but for him there will just be a nice picture drawn in crayon of a smiling sun voting Republican.
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@Cyan:
An article on combating North Carolina's 1867…wait, no, 2016 suppression of black voters.
If McCrory wins reelection North Carolina is just as stupid of a state as Nebraska with Sam Brownback.
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If McCrory wins reelection North Carolina is just as stupid of a state as Nebraska with Sam Brownback.
Kansas is the state Brownback is destroying.
Brownback's Kansas is also the prototype for how the rest of the country will be run if Trump wins.
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Can someone debunk this odd talk radio point of Saul alinaky and why him being connected to hillary and obama even loosely is some terrible secret that threatens to destroy america
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@Long:
Can someone debunk this odd talk radio point of Saul alinaky and why him being connected to hillary and obama even loosely is some terrible secret that threatens to destroy america
Sure, here it goes: Its from talk radio.
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@Cyan:
Kansas is the state Brownback is destroying.
Damn it I meant to write Kansas, I don't even know whose the Governor of Nebraska.
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I doubt a lot of people that listen to right-wing talk radio know who Saul Alinsky even was; well, outside of a guy whose name sounds suspiciously Jewy.
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http://news.groopspeak.com/breaking-trump-tower-goes-bankrupt-being-auctioned-off/
-trump-tower-goes-bankrupt-being-auctioned-off
It only opened 4 years ago.
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@Monkey:
Sure, here it goes: Its from talk radio.
I mean can you explain in a why or how unreasonable it is if one wanted to discuss it with a semi rational person. Like the dude looks like a run of the mill union supporting guy with links to communism and thing s that were never really proven and was honest in talking about how to win in politics. I just dont understand why theres its even a thing
Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
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Saul Alinksy was a community organizer who did great work in improving the conditions of poor communities, especially black ones. He was a big influence on pretty much every organizing movement since then, Obama specifically citing him.
This alone would make Republicans froth at the mouth, but Hillary wrote her senior thesis on Alinsky and his methods (getting help from Alinsky himself) so he gets splash damage from the Clinton Hate Industry.
Also, he was Jewish.
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The Green Party operates under the assumption that Republicans will be awful enough that they'll get thrown out of office after one term but that awful performance won't actually accomplish anything in the long run. That's because both the candidates and voters for that party have zero working knowledge of how our government actually functions.
Of course, being rich and white tends to insulate you from the negative side-effects of GOP policies. So she'd be fine.
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The Green Party operates under the assumption that Republicans will be awful enough that they'll get thrown out of office after one term
They also seem to ignore the results of 2010 midterms if that's true. Apparently everything's just been gravy at the state and federal level.
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I don't see what the problem is with idealogically feeling one way, or merely not wanting to be automatically labeled (because party affiliation WILL affect what kind of mail you get and other things too), but realizing in practice that it still reduces to very few choices. Just look around right now; people who want to vote for 3rd parties or not vote at all get (rightfully) pounced on for possibly screwing our country to make a personal statement… but your actual party affiliation, which affects NOBODY BUT YOURSELF, should be whatever you feel comfortable with. Are there going to be people going Independent just to feel like one of the cool kids? I'm sure. But that becomes more about individual cases. If someone says "I'm an Independent" it should only matter if they're somehow trying to use it to justify a stance that has nothing to do with that, and that's the only way you can compare it to people who say "I'm a moderate" but then go on to explain viewpoints that are far from moderate.
tl;dr people are irredeemable morons.
Here's something I think we should all be able to agree on: your party affiliation should be secret.
Having personally seen discrimination against people not registered as a certain party, I know for a fact that it will never be possible to keep that information secret from the parties themselves.
This leaves only one solution: we must do away with party registration entirely.
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Ben Affleck is putting in his two cents:
This leaves only one solution: we must do away with party registration entirely.
That would be interesting.
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I doubt a lot of people that listen to right-wing talk radio know who Saul Alinsky even was; well, outside of a guy whose name sounds suspiciously Jewy.
Speaking of names that sound suspiciously Jewy:
Jon Stewart recounts his Twitter duel with Donald Trump back in 2013, which starts with Trump's tweet referring to Jon by his real name of Liebowitz. -
We should do away with parties entirely.
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@Monkey:
We should do away with parties entirely.
It would be great if we could do that, but even the founding fathers failed there.
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Speaking of names that sound suspiciously Jewy:
Jon Stewart recounts his Twitter duel with Donald Trump back in 2013, which starts with Trump's tweet referring to Jon by his real name of Liebowitz.I'm DYING. Thank you.
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The Green Party operates under the assumption that Republicans will be awful enough that they'll get thrown out of office after one term but that awful performance won't actually accomplish anything in the long run. That's because both the candidates and voters for that party have zero working knowledge of how our government actually functions.
Of course, being rich and white tends to insulate you from the negative side-effects of GOP policies. So she'd be fine.
For the record, Jill Stein hasn't actually endorsed Trump at all. A bunch of news sites did little or no research on the claim.
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Newsweek's big story they have been building up about Trump and his connections to Russia
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For the record, Jill Stein hasn't actually endorsed Trump at all. A bunch of news sites did little or no research on the claim.
At this point I don't think it matters she's a shit candidate just like Gary Johnson.
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Newsweek's big story they have been building up about Trump and his connections to Russia
Too little, too late.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
For the record, Jill Stein hasn't actually endorsed Trump at all. A bunch of news sites did little or no research on the claim.
For the record, that Snopes article was debunked in the Daily Banter article.