Chapter 753: " Battle"

dailyfiber

@Monkey:

And when you see how Kyros defeated Buffalo very easily, how both Buffalo et Baby 5 couldn't do anything against the Franky Shogun, it's hard to consider the officers like real threat to people of Luffy's level. so against people like Ideo or Blue Gilly, they should show a good fight and even if they lose, at least we'll be able what are their powers. And let's not forget that the "real bosses" are the Highest Officer : Trebol, Diamante and Picca.

I wouldn't assume the rest of the officer's power based on Baby 5 and Buffalo. Rank or position is never an indicator of strength in One Piece. Bastille and Maynard went down easily, but if it was Onigumo and Yamakiji (who are both implied to be very powerful), would it have been the same? They're all Vice Admirals, but there's a clear difference in strength between some of them. I assume that's the same case with the Donquixote Family officers.

Torao

@Monkey:

How Bartolomeo winning was more predictable than Rebecca's winning ?

barto off paneled a VA before entering the fight. makes him stand on top of the rest of B block, i would say.
(even when maynard wasnt that strong in the end, showing a trashed VA should be more or less a clear hint towards this)

@Monkey:

You aren't saying that the difference in power between the gladiators and the officer are the same than the one between tilestone and the CP9 I hope ?

between tilestone and the lower CP9s, I would say he's right.
fits with how the executives are easily able to handle the supposingly strong dwarfs and how people like ideo and sai get one shotted by luffy and chinjao.

Redx

@RamistaR:

Not in One Piece though.

Uh, yeah thats practically a Law in fiction. It involves making the audience think one thing then and then some drastic change causes the opposite result of what they expect. I haven't identified the name of the trope though but it's a pretty common thing.

King Cannon

@Monkey:

How Bartolomeo winning was more predictable than Rebecca's winning ?

Bartolomeo had a mysterious DF and easily defeated a VA before the battle.

Rebecca had nothing of the sort. You had to know beforehand that Cavendish had a superpowered split personality in order to predict anything.

@Monkey:

You aren't saying that the difference in power between the gladiators and the officer are the same than the one between tilestone and the CP9 I hope ?

And when you see how Kyros defeated Buffalo very easily, how both Buffalo et Baby 5 couldn't do anything against the Franky Shogun, it's hard to consider the officers like real threat to people of Luffy's level. so against people like Ideo or Blue Gilly, they should show a good fight and even if they lose, at least we'll be able what are their powers. And let's not forget that the "real bosses" are the Highest Officer : Trebol, Diamante and Picca.

I said it has nothing to do with power levels! Can't people understand that?

Example: Rebecca has a better chance of beating an officer than Blue Gilly not because she's stronger, but because she's more important to the plot and was decently focused.

Gold

Doflamingo's crew has some parallels to Luffy in the sense that its a smaller crew with great personality. The only thing missing is fodder to show how strong they truly can be as a team…

The irrelevent strawhat nakama colosseum fighters already got their screen time, Time for us to actually care about them as they lose to our villains of the arc.

Unless Oda planned the collosseum fighters to defeat the Doflamingo crew therefore making the idea of the donquixote family being a threat a joke and wasting our time with this arc.

eliman12

Why in "ishuhui" site there's chapter 755 in the right and not 754?
http://www.ishuhui.com/

blackout

@eliman12:

Why in "ishuhui" site there's chapter 755 in the right and not 754?
http://www.ishuhui.com/

2 chapters this week…. for real though it's probably a typo or something.

LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND

@Gold:

Doflamingo's crew has some parallels to Luffy in the sense that its a smaller crew with great personality. The only thing missing is fodder to show how strong they truly can be as a team…

The irrelevent strawhat nakama colosseum fighters already got their screen time, Time for us to actually care about them as they lose to our villains of the arc.

Unless Oda planned the collosseum fighters to defeat the Doflamingo crew therefore making the idea of the donquixote family being a threat a joke and wasting our time with this arc.

@King:

Example: Rebecca has a better chance of beating an officer than Blue Gilly not because she's stronger, but because she's more important to the plot and was decently focused.

@King:

Bartolomeo winning was somewhat predictable. It was D-Block that was tricky.

Oh, I agree entirely that they will play future roles.

But the Donquixote Pirates, as the main antagonist group of the current arc, still need to show why they are a threat. And if they're going to be taken down, then allow people who actually did stuff throughout the arc to do it, not some guys who barely interacted with Luffy and decided to join the cause 5 chapters ago.

Then what about defeat from a large group or multiple groupings? That way they IMHo keep their actual threat level, and than as a group, Oda doesn't just leave the threads he just made with Dagama and the rest being a viable force, nor the 5++ chapters chase. I mean I can see your points, but to have absolutely no 1 but Cavendish, Rebecca, Don Chinjao, and possibly Bartolomeo in a teaming up effort or by himself just also seems as if unnecessarily setup to be lacking finality.

Tyrano

I think we'll see Manshelly within the next few chapters.
After Tontattas break out, some of them must look for her, since the Family lied to them that she's sick.
They need to find her and see for themselves, I suppose.

And I still support the theory that Manshelly is just normal thinking dwarf.
All dwarves are pretty much dunderheads when it comes to trust (aka common sense), and when they say someone is terrible, I take it that it actually means level-headed.

Monquito

@RamistaR:

I agree with King Cannon's argument, but Oda is very unpredictable. Mr3 is the best example. But more recently, you have Barto winning Bloc B when Bellamy was the main character of the fight.

Bellamy wasn't the main character of nothing… At all.

Pk Da Legend

@Monquito:

Bellamy wasn't the main character of nothing… At all.

If he wasnt the main character of nothing youre saying he is the main character of something.. So..

King Cannon

@LUFFYSMC:

Then what about defeat from a large group or multiple groupings? That way they IMHo keep their actual threat level, and than as a group, Oda doesn't just leave the threads he just made with Dagama and the rest being a viable force, nor the 5++ chapters chase. I mean I can see your points, but to have absolutely no 1 but Cavendish, Rebecca, Don Chinjao, and possibly Bartolomeo in a teaming up effort or by himself just also seems as if unnecessarily setup to be lacking finality.

Most of the Colosseum gladiators already had their time to shine during the block battles. Ideo made Hajrudin fly with a punch, Sai beat the fused Funk Brothers, Blue Gilly got 2 wins. It's only fair for the Donquixote Pirates to get their shining moment now because they spent the entire arc doing basically nothing.

I mean, Dellinger already took down 2 guys, so I guess it's fair to expect the other officers to do the same. I don't see Oda randomly making some of the Colosseum guys be able to defeat any of the officers while making others (like Suleiman) just get their asses kicked (unless the case is Chinjao, as he is the most developed of them).

vagabond87

Bellamy was most developed out of his block - thats probably what RamistaR wanted to say.

Most developed and didnt won. How is that even possible for character that didnt gotten a lot development not to win?!

!
Its not like story continues and Oda can develop characters that suprisingly win, right?!

!

The Franky Tank

Well I guess it shows that people like the coliseum fighters enough that people want to see more of them, so that's a good thing. At most, I can see some of the fighters teaming up to take on a few of the officers, this would show the officers are tough while giving some of the coliseum fighters a chance to shine a bit more. If Oda was to go that route, that would be the best way. We also don't know how Burgess will play out, so when we find out what he will do, that could change things up a little bit.

Buggy D. Clown

I wanna see Burgess go against the CP0 - it be different n totally random lol

clubber

@Buggy:

I wanna see Burgess go against the CP0 - it be different n totally random lol

CP0 has Monster Trio to fight. 3 vs 3. I think the celestial dragons will send them after the Sh's at some point after this arc.

Darth

@dailyfiber:

I wouldn't assume the rest of the officer's power based on Baby 5 and Buffalo. Rank or position is never an indicator of strength in One Piece. Bastille and Maynard went down easily, but if it was Onigumo and Yamakiji (who are both implied to be very powerful), would it have been the same? They're all Vice Admirals, but there's a clear difference in strength between some of them. I assume that's the same case with the Donquixote Family officers.

Very, very sorry about starting this discussion, but why is that?

I've been seeing that for a while, but I would argue that rank or position is indeed indicative of strength in One Piece. Relatively so, but still.

…

Also, why are people convinced that some VA's are stronger then others? Except for wishful thinking?

dailyfiber

@Darth:

Very, very sorry about starting this discussion, but why is that?

I've been seeing that for a while, but I would argue that rank or position is indeed indicative of strength in One Piece. Relatively so, but still.

…

Also, why are people convinced that some VA's are stronger then others? Except for wishful thinking?

Oh sorry Darth, I should have been more clear. Rank is an indicator of strength, but it doesn't mean all members of that rank are around the same power level. Nezumi was a Marine Captain, but he's definitely very inferior to Smoker who also was a Marine Captain around the same time. What I was trying to say was, just because Baby 5 and Buffalo were dispatched easily, it didn't mean the rest of the executives would be that easy.

Even amongst the SH's you have clear power gaps. If some enemy can take out Usopp and Nami, it doesn't mean they could do the same to Sanji or Zoro, for instance.

Darth

@dailyfiber:

Oh sorry Darth, I should have been more clear. Rank is an indicator of strength, but it doesn't mean all members of that rank are around the same power level. Nezumi was a Marine Captain, but he's definitely very inferior to Smoker who also was a Marine Captain around the same time. What I was trying to say was, just because Baby 5 and Buffalo were dispatched easily, it didn't mean the rest of the executives would be that easy.

Even amongst the SH's you have clear power gaps. If some enemy can take out Usopp and Nami, it doesn't mean they could do the same to Sanji or Zoro, for instance.

Ah, so that's what you meant. With that I indeed agree.

Still, for some reason, even though I know Doflamingo's crew is strong, I feel very little danger from their presence. Does that make sense?

dailyfiber

@Darth:

Ah, so that's what you meant. With that I indeed agree.

Still, for some reason, even though I know Doflamingo's crew is strong, I feel very little danger from their presence. Does that make sense?

Absolutely, and I agree with you. I think that issue should be handled (hopefully) with the upcoming chapters. Them curbstomping the gladiators will help.

RobZilla

@Beowulf89:

You think Rebecca is in that tier? I'm not sure her fighting style works too great outside of the Colosseum.

I'd put… if you'll excuse my indulgence in power level wank.
Luffy, Cavendish, and Chin Jao with his "drill" at the high end. Tentatively, Bartolomeo is here too, but I think his power is really only suited for defense or one on one fights.
Sai, Ideo, Bluegilly and Elizabello without a fully charged punch in the upper-middle. Hajrudin might go here just because he's a guy that Luffy used a big attack to beat.
Dagama, Abdullah and Jeet are in the lower-middle grouping. They are decent enough fighters who rely on their intelligence, wits and dirty tricks to pull off wins.
Boo, Ohlumbus and Suleiman are in the lower grouping. They are good fighters, and probably stronger than the people directly above them, but they lack the tactics to beat a more powerful opponent and the "explosive power" that the top two groups have.

I was talking more about characters that have been showcased more, and will most likely have a greater role in the story going forward.

Rebecca definitely falls into that category.

RamistaR

@Redx:

Uh, yeah thats practically a Law in fiction. It involves making the audience think one thing then and then some drastic change causes the opposite result of what they expect. I haven't identified the name of the trope though but it's a pretty common thing.

I know all this LoL. I just said that you don't "usually" find it in One Piece. So Barto's victory wasn't "totally predictable".

kcity

@Darth:

Very, very sorry about starting this discussion, but why is that?

I've been seeing that for a while, but I would argue that rank or position is indeed indicative of strength in One Piece. Relatively so, but still.

…

Also, why are people convinced that some VA's are stronger then others? Except for wishful thinking?

Garp to your last answer, but then again the 'wishful thinking' part makes it seem it's a rhetorical question and you're not open to suggestion.

Blackbeard as a subordinate of Ace. Crocodile or Moria compared to Doffy and Mihawk. There's lots of ways Oda shows that rank isn't a set in stone thing, but merely an indicator. Exceptions are made as Oda sees fit.

Edit: nvm, sorry skimmed over the posts underneath them. I don't feel any dangerous presence of those officers yet either, they feel more like they're just above fodder level, eventhough they likely aren't.

Katzztar

@Tyrano:

I think we'll see Manshelly within the next few chapters.
After Tontattas break out, some of them must look for her, since the Family lied to them that she's sick.
They need to find her and see for themselves, I suppose.

And I still support the theory that Manshelly is just normal thinking dwarf.
All dwarves are pretty much dunderheads when it comes to trust (aka common sense), and when they say someone is terrible, I take it that it actually means level-headed.

I've always thought that she was the rational one. Been saying it since she was 'introduced'.
That they call her selfish for some reason like some thug lies to them to get them to something, something like when Doffy first tried to get them to help with the Smiley factory, he said it was 'special medicine that would help save lives'.=

Manshelly = "You liar! We won't help you!"
Rest of Tontatta= "The princess is selfish!"
Manshelly= "You morons! If you help this liar I'm gonna hit you!"
Tontatta = "She's cruel!"
Manshelly pulling her hair while yelling = Why in hell are you so stupid?!"
Tontatta "She's so short-tempered!"

zachri

Pssst
Where da next chapter spoilers aaaaat?

Tyrano

@Katzztar:

I've always thought that she was the rational one. Been saying it since she was 'introduced'.
That they call her selfish for some reason like some thug lies to them to get them to something, something like when Doffy first tried to get them to help with the Smiley factory, he said it was 'special medicine that would help save lives'.=

Manshelly = "You liar! We won't help you!"
Rest of Tontatta= "The princess is selfish!"
Manshelly= "You morons! If you help this liar I'm gonna hit you!"
Tontatta = "She's cruel!"
Manshelly pulling her hair while yelling = Why in hell are you so stupid?!"
Tontatta "She's so short-tempered!"

Yeah, I read your post like this ages ago and was convinced since.
Probably the most accurate prediction about a character that hasn't appeared yet.
Fingers crossed.

Katzztar

@Tyrano:

Yeah, I read your post like this ages ago and was convinced since.
Probably the most accurate prediction about a character that hasn't appeared yet.
Fingers crossed.

Yeah, I think you were the 1st or 2nd person I converted to my view on Manshelly

Darth

@kcity:

Garp to your last answer, but then again the 'wishful thinking' part makes it seem it's a rhetorical question and you're not open to suggestion.

Chapter Zero clearly shows that Garp was the exception, not a rule. He turned down the promotion, and while he is VA, he is not to be considered indicator of their strength, since he is anomaly.

Wishful thinking part was refering to the fact that when Bastille first appeared, people were saying that he, as a Veteran VA, would clearly be stronger then Smoker, and actually do something meaningful this arc.

How it turned out… we all know.

eliman12

So no spoilers??????????

shanksa

waiting for the spoiler for good

RobZilla

@Darth:

Chapter Zero clearly shows that Garp was the exception, not a rule. He turned down the promotion, and while he is VA, he is not to be considered indicator of their strength, since he is anomaly.

Wishful thinking part was refering to the fact that when Bastille first appeared, people were saying that he, as a Veteran VA, would clearly be stronger then Smoker, and actually do something meaningful this arc.

How it turned out… we all know.

Yeah…Bastille's humiliating loss has really kinda killed the VA rank stone dead.

Icarus

@RobZilla:

Yep, I agree with all of this wholeheartedly.

Doffy is at a lovely level where he's obviously stronger than the vast majority of people, but isn't quite up to that top tier.

A nice milestone for Luffy on his way to the top.

I think the fight between Doffy and Luffy is going to boil down to who's COO and COA is the strongest and most well developed, I am hoping to see some skilful use of both types from Luffy, after all he spent two whole years on it most of which was with Rayleigh (who is a haki boss).

I expect to see some serious haki improvement perhaps even some pure haki (no devil fruit) moves like Sabo has showed throughout the arc, I am not sure how Luffys new skill/strength level will compare to Sabo, clearly Sabo's COA is very strong indeed as shown by his smackdown of Bastille but I expect Luffy's COA to be very strong also.

In an ideal world I want to see Luffy use the haki blade like Rayleigh did in his fight with Kizaru as having a cutting edge would really help against Doffy's strings.

In fact Luffy should be able to dual wield them. (imagine ninja smiley here)

RobZilla

@Icarus:

I think the fight between Doffy and Luffy is going to boil down to who's COO and COA is the strongest and most well developed, I am hoping to see some skilful use of both types from Luffy, after all he spent two whole years on it most of which was with Rayleigh (who is a haki boss).

I expect to see some serious haki improvement perhaps even some pure haki (no devil fruit) moves like Sabo has showed throughout the arc, I am not sure how Luffys new skill/strength level will compare to Sabo, clearly Sabo's COA is very strong indeed as shown by his smackdown of Bastille but I expect Luffy's COA to be very strong also.

In an ideal world I want to see Luffy use the haki blade like Rayleigh did in his fight with Kizaru as having a cutting edge would really help against Doffy's strings.

In fact Luffy should be able to dual wield them.

Haki Blades?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Like the way Rayleigh infused his sword with Haki?

Pk Da Legend

I dont think Rayleigh used Haki to make the sword happy expressing interest Robzilla.

The word you are looking for is infused buddy

LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND

@Katzztar:

I've always thought that she was the rational one. Been saying it since she was 'introduced'.
That they call her selfish for some reason like some thug lies to them to get them to something, something like when Doffy first tried to get them to help with the Smiley factory, he said it was 'special medicine that would help save lives'.=

Manshelly = "You liar! We won't help you!"
Rest of Tontatta= "The princess is selfish!"
Manshelly= "You morons! If you help this liar I'm gonna hit you!"
Tontatta = "She's cruel!"
Manshelly pulling her hair while yelling = Why in hell are you so stupid?!"
Tontatta "She's so short-tempered!"

Would agree with this but the Tontatta's gullibility would seemingly go against this. As once Manshelly warned them, ( like in this chapter), wouldn't they automatically believe her over others because she is still their princess/ friend?

RobZilla

@Pk:

I dont think Rayleigh used Haki to make the sword happy expressing interest Robzilla.

The word you are looking for is infused buddy

Hahahahahahaha you're totally right.

Bit of a brain fart there.

…now I want to see Rayleigh making various objects happy with Haki.

O baba

@Katzztar:

Yeah, I think you were the 1st or 2nd person I converted to my view on Manshelly

I'm on board too dude!

LightningAce

@Icarus:

I think the fight between Doffy and Luffy is going to boil down to who's COO and COA is the strongest and most well developed, I am hoping to see some skilful use of both types from Luffy, after all he spent two whole years on it most of which was with Rayleigh (who is a haki boss).

I expect to see some serious haki improvement perhaps even some pure haki (no devil fruit) moves like Sabo has showed throughout the arc, I am not sure how Luffys new skill/strength level will compare to Sabo, clearly Sabo's COA is very strong indeed as shown by his smackdown of Bastille but I expect Luffy's COA to be very strong also.

In an ideal world I want to see Luffy use the haki blade like Rayleigh did in his fight with Kizaru as having a cutting edge would really help against Doffy's strings.

In fact Luffy should be able to dual wield them. (imagine ninja smiley here)

Not exactly fair to compare Luffy to Sabo, given Sabo has prolly more experience using haki than Luffy does by many years…..but Luffy gets stronger and stronger very fast so he'll be right up there soon enuff...

And Rayleigh wasn't exactly using a 'Haki blade' it was his sword, combined with haki like all other top tier fighters prolly use in the Marines and the New World....

MJR.

The VA had potential and I think that Oda should have used them more often in the Grand Line and then the Admirals in the New World

The Franky Tank

@MJR.:

The VA had potential and I think that Oda should have used them more often in the Grand Line and then the Admirals in the New World

I was hoping to see some more VA's used, especially when we saw them at the end of the Enes Lobby stuff. Oh well, not a huge deal, though Smoker at least needs to have a payoff.

kcity

@Darth:

Chapter Zero clearly shows that Garp was the exception, not a rule. He turned down the promotion, and while he is VA, he is not to be considered indicator of their strength, since he is anomaly.

Wishful thinking part was refering to the fact that when Bastille first appeared, people were saying that he, as a Veteran VA, would clearly be stronger then Smoker, and actually do something meaningful this arc.

How it turned out… we all know.

I already said that in the part you left out, so you're just confirming what I've said… Oda makes exceptions to these rules as he sees fit.

King Cannon

@vagabond87:

Bellamy was most developed out of his block - thats probably what RamistaR wanted to say.

Most developed and didnt won. How is that even possible for character that didnt gotten a lot development not to win?!

! http://files.trollemotions.webnode.sk/system_preview_detail_200000042-46111470ae-public/Laughing-Face-Meme-597x772.png
Its not like story continues and Oda can develop characters that suprisingly win, right?!

! http://files.trollemotions.webnode.sk/system_preview_detail_200000042-46111470ae-public/Laughing-Face-Meme-597x772.png

Bellamy beat Abdullah & Jeet, didn't he?

But again, you miss the point. B-Block was won by a decently-developed character who had plenty of build-up at the time.

Katzztar

@O:

I'm on board too dude!

okay I go you and Tyranno rubs hands ad getting ready to drive the bus… eerr bandwagon

@LUFFYSMC:

Would agree with this but the Tontatta's gullibility would seemingly go against this. As once Manshelly warned them, ( like in this chapter), wouldn't they automatically believe her over others because she is still their princess/ friend?

I could point out the scenario I put forth was just speculation and wasn't an exact scene, could have been some other scene that called Manshelly to yell at them and caused them to call her selfish.

BUT…. well actually, they call her their princess, but I don't recall them calling Manshelly a friend. :ninja:

kouch_lee

@RobZilla:

Yeah…Bastille's humiliating loss has really kinda killed the VA rank stone dead.

I guess Ennies Lobby was too early for their demo reel, also considering how tired and battered the SH's were at the moment, and how they had their hands more than full with captains, 5 VA's suddenly raining down on them would've been overkill. Maybe use 1 of them during Sabaody. Bonney and Bege got out of that arc unscathed, so maybe show them trying to deal with a Vice Admiral.

And, obviously, Oda should've done more with them during the war. As it stands, the only memorable moments they've had so far was ganging up on a severely exhausted Luffy and putting some Seastone Handcuffs on Marco. Not even guys like Doberman or Yamakaji, who are supposedly more prominent and kind of a bigger deal than say Mozambia or Stainless, did a single sword swing in the entire war. Random panels of VA's holding off New World captains, like McGuy or the Decalvan bros. or what have you, would've been great. (Now that I think about it, the giant VA's got some action time against WB commanders and Oars Jr. Lucky them).

Seeing how they're now mostly out of their league (unless Bastille and Maynard are among the weakest VA's), their show-off moments should've come earlier in the manga.

Still, I can see VA's proving to be a good match against Franky or anyone not in the monster trio. And a future Onigumo appearance gives me some hope. Guy seems like he meant business.

RobZilla

@kouch_lee:

I guess Ennies Lobby was too early for their demo reel, also considering how tired and battered the SH's were at the moment, and how they had their hands more than full with captains, 5 VA's suddenly raining down on them would've been overkill. Maybe use 1 of them during Sabaody. Bonney and Bege got out of that arc unscathed, so maybe show them trying to deal with a Vice Admiral.

And, obviously, Oda should've done more with them during the war. As it stands, the only memorable moments they've had so far was ganging up on a severely exhausted Luffy and putting some Seastone Handcuffs on Marco. Not even guys like Doberman or Yamakaji, who are supposedly more prominent and kind of a bigger deal than say Mozambia or Stainless, did a single sword swing in the entire war. Random panels of VA's holding off New World captains, like McGuy or the Decalvan bros. or what have you, would've been great. (Now that I think about it, the giant VA's got some action time against WB commanders and Oars Jr. Lucky them).

Seeing how they're now mostly out of their league (unless Bastille and Maynard are among the weakest VA's), their show-off moments should've come earlier in the manga.

Still, I can see VA's proving to be a good match against Franky or anyone not in the monster trio. And a future Onigumo appearance gives me some hope. Guy seems like he meant business.

To be honest, the only VA that I've ever thought looked really good was Vergo.

Then Vergo got one shotted.

I totally agree that Oda has missed the opportunity to showcase them properly.

They might make nice final WG opponents for some of the other SH's like you said, but tbh their discernible threat level is really pretty far gone at this point, regardless.

Green Arrow

This post is deleted!

kouch_lee

@RobZilla:

To be honest, the only VA that I've ever thought looked really good was Vergo.

Then Vergo got one shotted.

I totally agree that Oda has missed the opportunity to showcase them properly.

They might make nice final WG opponents for some of the other SH's like you said, but tbh their discernible threat level is really pretty far gone at this point, regardless.

I don't know about Vergo being the only impressive one; I'm kinda reticent to call Smoker weak or something like that. Plus, I'm quite sure he'll get stronger. He keeps progressing just as Luffy does. He was clearly out of his league against Doffy, but I don't think he was much weaker than Law and Vergo. Those were pretty close fights. In fact, he might very well be stronger than Vergo.

But, honestly, I count Smokey among the higher tiered VA's. I don't think Momonga or Dalmatian, to name just a couple, are as strong (or stronger) than him. Logia + Seastone Jutte + Haki mastery? Yeah, don't see many VA's stepping up to that.

@kcity:

It also makes the leap from VA to Admiral a lot bigger than necessary. Probably why Oda had to come up with new characters like Fujitora, instead of promoting a strong VA to Admiral.

But that was to be expected. Only 3 admirals vs., what, 20 Vice Admirals that we know of? Maybe even more of them?

Admirals are special cases. Vice Admirals are very strong and capable beings, but there are hundreds of those. Admirals are monsters. Of course the leap must be pretty huge for that to work.

kcity

@RobZilla:

To be honest, the only VA that I've ever thought looked really good was Vergo.

Then Vergo got one shotted.

I totally agree that Oda has missed the opportunity to showcase them properly.

They might make nice final WG opponents for some of the other SH's like you said, but tbh their discernible threat level is really pretty far gone at this point, regardless.

It also makes the leap from VA to Admiral a lot bigger than necessary. Probably why Oda had to come up with new characters like Fujitora, instead of promoting a strong VA to Admiral.

King Cannon

The only true hope for the VA rank.

kcity

@kouch_lee:

But that was to be expected. Only 3 admirals vs., what, 20 Vice Admirals that we know of? Maybe even more of them?

Admirals are special cases. Vice Admirals are very strong and capable beings, but there are hundreds of those. Admirals are monsters. Of course the leap must be pretty huge for that to work.

True that, still there could have been something in between or they could have upgraded the VA's to have 10 more capable people and just have hundreds of one rank lower than VA. Fujitora and Green Bull kind of come out of nowhere now, while Oda is so good at bringing big names early in the story.

And WTH kind of time machine quoting did you pull off with quoting me before it was posted xD edit: nvm, edit button ofcourse, derp.