Chapter 753: " Battle"

kouch_lee

True that, still there could have been something in between or they could have upgraded the VA's to have 10 more capable people and just have hundreds of one rank lower than VA. Fujitora and Green Bull kind of come out of nowhere now, while Oda is so good at bringing big names early in the story.

Well, that could've been solved with Oda using the Rear-Admiral rank as the over-populated, strong-yet-not-game-changing rank, and, as you say, leave the VA's with 10 or so numbers instead of almost double that, which is where we're at now, but making them a bit stronger. That way, people like Maynard could be Rear-Admirals instead of off-paneled Vice Admirals.

But that ship sailed a long ago, obviously.

Pinelark

I dunno, to me it makes fairly good sense that the VA's aren't THAT powerful.

It's apparent that all strong pirates make their way to the New World, and a select few comeback to the first half of the grand line, or the weaker oceans. (Such as Crocodile who's ambition became to rule and get Pluton, or Moriah, who just became a pirate trapper.)

Why do the strong pirates make their way to New World? Less Marine presence and of course the ever large lure of One Piece. The specific reasons the Marines don't go there is because they know they don't have enough powerful contenders to take on the Yonkou, even with the Shichibukai there's no guarantee they would win. As the Admirals + Shichibukai = Yonkou and Yonkou's top brass. VA's are good for dealing with everyone else.

Remember Maynard got off-screened by a character with a very powerful ability, most likely even more powerful in a confined space as there's probably no way around his barrier then. Bastille got rolled by Sabo. A guy who was clearly hinted to be at Ace's level, and plus has had an additional 2 years of growth probably spent more time actually training as he's part of a military operation and not just a happy go lucky pirate.

Ronse? Took on freaking Whitebeard. Of course he was gonna lose. Notice none of the Admirals had_that_ hard of a time with Whitebeard (except for his explosive moment on Akainu, who got right back up and went on killing pirates). The VA's that have been defeated have all tackled opponents either out of their league, or opponents with abilities that had very distinct advantages. Like when Boa used her ability on Momonga's crew. Poor guy had to stab himself to keep from turning to stone.

Why does the WG not try to get more monsters in the marines? They don't need to. Pirates tend to not dick with the WG, actually dicking with each other more often, Luffy is clearly the exception to the rule, and even he only dicks with them because they keep putting themselves right in his line of sight. The WG can let the pirates off each other in the New World to their heart's content. As long as the pirate's aren't unified (enter Luffy) then they aren't a threat.

I still fully subscribe to the idea that Luffy was around VA level pre-timeskip. Otherwise the threat of CP9 is just non-existent. Lucci and Luffy I think qualified for low VA level of strength. I just think Momonga and Dalmatian rocked his world cause he was exhausted and worn the hell out.

TLC

@kcity:

It also makes the leap from VA to Admiral a lot bigger than necessary. Probably why Oda had to come up with new characters like Fujitora, instead of promoting a strong VA to Admiral.

I'm really glad Oda did that rather than randomly promoting Momonga or some other named Vice-Admiral with a very unimpressive showing or whatnot.

Icarus

@RobZilla:

Haki Blades?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Like the way Rayleigh infused his sword with Haki?

Yeah just gone and taken a look at issue 512, it was just a sword with haki.

My bad.

I still think a cutting edge would be useful in fight against Doffy, do you think that Luffy may try and use Law's sword?, or is that taking it a bit too far.

I will be interested to see if Raleigh taught Luffy any specific styles of fighting, such as Sabo's very distinctive Claw style.

I am not sure that Luffy's blunt fist style of attacks will work against Doffy, I know it will hurt him when he lands a punch with haki in it but I think Luffy is lacking a cutting edge in his style of fighting.

I think a bladed weapon of some kind would be best, I don't expect Luffy to become a swordsman or anything but I think it would make him a more flexible fighter overall and would help as many non logia enemies seem to use weapons in the new world, even Whitebeard had one.

As for VA's, they are certainly not that big a deal in the new world. That is not to say that they are fodder or anything but they are clearly a lot further behind the admirals than I thought they would be.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@LightningAce:

Not exactly fair to compare Luffy to Sabo, given Sabo has prolly more experience using haki than Luffy does by many years…..but Luffy gets stronger and stronger very fast so he'll be right up there soon enuff...

And Rayleigh wasn't exactly using a 'Haki blade' it was his sword, combined with haki like all other top tier fighters prolly use in the Marines and the New World....

Yeah my bad LightningAce.

Had a look at issue 512 and its a normal sword.

As I sais in response to Robzilla, I think that Luffy could do with a weapon of some kind to combat all the haki imbued weapons being used in the new word.

Then again with Luffy's speed he can probably evade them anyway, and evasion is better than defence.

kcity

This post is deleted!

kcity

@TLC:

I'm really glad Oda did that rather than randomly promoting Momonga or some other named Vice-Admiral with a very unimpressive showing or whatnot.

Me too, proves how unbalanced the marine powers are though.

vagabond87

@RobZilla:

To be honest, the only VA that I've ever thought looked really good was Vergo.

Then Vergo got one shotted.

I totally agree that Oda has missed the opportunity to showcase them properly.

They might make nice final WG opponents for some of the other SH's like you said, but tbh their discernible threat level is really pretty far gone at this point, regardless.

Still best showing that we seen from VA or hints to some real power imo are 2 things from Onigumo- he was given mission to transport Ace from Impel Down to Marineford- they gave
him job that was crucial and they surely thought of him as somebody stronger than Ace as if Ace would free himself somebody who can beat him up has to be on board of transporting
ship. Second hint was how he managed to capture in second wounded Marco, during war.
He seems like very experienced, strong vice admiral with very interesting Zoan fruit and 8 swords. I get same feeling somehow from Doberman.

Here for example when Momonga shakes from impact of Whitebeards attacks(same like another VA next to Dober m ) while Doberman doesnt move at all - small detail but noticable.

For me both Onigumo and Doberman are in a way exceptional with design and partially with development they gotten durin Enies Lobby also both being followers of Absolute Justice seems to give them strength from having no doubt in what they do and it was said many times in OP that having no doubt is one of biggest if not the biggest strengths of all.

Only Vergo was really impressive out of Vice Admirals - thats true, though its early into New World and as Oda now uses VA to show how strong some characters are it wont be
walk in a park with VA as they are still stronger than most of strawhats and a buster call fleet would be real danger even if it fights with strawhats + heart pirates alliance for example(would be really
cool fight with 5 VA and crew vs Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Jean Bart + Bepo and rest of crews).

King Cannon

@Icarus:

I still think a cutting edge would be useful in fight against Doffy, do you think that Luffy may try and use Law's sword?, or is that taking it a bit too far.

Luffy can't use a sword for the life of him. That's why he has Zoro on his crew.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/48226/one-piece_ch90_by_onepiecefag-nep-ece/13

RamistaR

Really funny how Doffy has not realized yet that he will have to go all out against Luffy.

RobZilla

@vagabond87:

Still best showing that we seen from VA or hints to some real power imo are 2 things from Onigumo- he was given mission to transport Ace from Impel Down to Marineford- they gave
him job that was crucial and they surely thought of him as somebody stronger than Ace as if Ace would free himself somebody who can beat him up has to be on board of transporting
ship. Second hint was how he managed to capture in second wounded Marco, during war.
He seems like very experienced, strong vice admiral with very interesting Zoan fruit and 8 swords. I get same feeling somehow from Doberman.
http://i18.mangareader.net/one-piece/566/one-piece-1022987.jpg
Here for example when Momonga shakes from impact of Whitebeards attacks(same like another VA next to Dober m ) while Doberman doesnt move at all - small detail but noticable.

For me both Onigumo and Doberman are in a way exceptional with design and partially with development they gotten durin Enies Lobby also both being followers of Absolute Justice seems to give them strength from having no doubt in what they do and it was said many times in OP that having no doubt is one of biggest if not the biggest strengths of all.

Only Vergo was really impressive out of Vice Admirals - thats true, though its early into New World and as Oda now uses VA to show how strong some characters are it wont be
walk in a park with VA as they are still stronger than most of strawhats and a buster call fleet would be real danger even if it fights with strawhats + heart pirates alliance for example(would be really
cool fight with 5 VA and crew vs Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Jean Bart + Bepo and rest of crews).

Yeah it was impressive how Marco was detained by at all Onigumo, but at that, it was a quick grab and lock while Marco was distracted.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@kouch_lee:

I don't know about Vergo being the only impressive one; I'm kinda reticent to call Smoker weak or something like that. Plus, I'm quite sure he'll get stronger. He keeps progressing just as Luffy does. He was clearly out of his league against Doffy, but I don't think he was much weaker than Law and Vergo. Those were pretty close fights. In fact, he might very well be stronger than Vergo.

But, honestly, I count Smokey among the higher tiered VA's. I don't think Momonga or Dalmatian, to name just a couple, are as strong (or stronger) than him. Logia + Seastone Jutte + Haki mastery? Yeah, don't see many VA's stepping up to that.

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking of Smoker actually.

Though he has had a few smackings around lately.

I get what you mean with the combo of Logia, Haki and Jutte though.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@kcity:

It also makes the leap from VA to Admiral a lot bigger than necessary. Probably why Oda had to come up with new characters like Fujitora, instead of promoting a strong VA to Admiral.

I suppose he might have wanted to keep the whole real life actor -> admiral thing going as well though.

dailyfiber

@kcity:

It also makes the leap from VA to Admiral a lot bigger than necessary. Probably why Oda had to come up with new characters like Fujitora, instead of promoting a strong VA to Admiral.

@TLC:

I'm really glad Oda did that rather than randomly promoting Momonga or some other named Vice-Admiral with a very unimpressive showing or whatnot.

None of the VAs can become Admirals if Oda sticks with that thing he does where all the Admirals are realistic looking and based off of Japanese actors.

kcity

Ah, true that. Totally forgot about the actors thing. Though aren't there a ton of VA'swith unknown faces anyway?

LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND

@RamistaR:

Really funny how Doffy has not realized yet that he will have to go all out against Luffy.

Agreed.

@King:

The only true hope for the VA rank.

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/R8pd9C5.png[/qimg]

For the life of me can't figure out who that is?
Hints, clues?…

@Katzztar:

. I could point out the scenario I put forth was just speculation and wasn't an exact scene, could have been some other scene that called Manshelly to yell at them and caused them to call her selfish.

BUT…. well actually, they call her their princess, but I don't recall them calling Manshelly a friend. :ninja:

My mistake, think I probably didn't express myself properly. I actually agree with your theory, or the basis/ basics of it, because it really does sound like Oda's sense of humor; I quoted you just to have it shown but I wasn't necessarily asking you, was more just wondering if there was something more missing?
And wondering what it was?
Was just wondering, (as gullible as the Tontatta seem, they also seem equally gullible to good and bad influences as well and repeatedly even to those who formerly tricked them) ;
Did Manshelly do, or "apparently do", something even they couldn't forgive, ( as in worse than DD or his crew) ?
So that their gullibility didn't also allow them to believe her once she corrected them?

Icarus

@King:

Luffy can't use a sword for the life of him. That's why he has Zoro on his crew.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/48226/one-piece_ch90_by_onepiecefag-nep-ece/13

Yeah I know I just thought it might be useful against Doffy's devil fruit abilities, then again Luffy will still lamp him.

Just seems that a lot of strong individuals have weapons in the new world eve though they don't seem to really need them, even Shanks used his sword to block Akainu at Marineford, they do have there uses in defence if not attack.

Katzztar

@LUFFYSMC:

My mistake, think I probably didn't express myself properly. I actually agree with your theory, or the basis/ basics of it, because it really does sound like Oda's sense of humor; I quoted you just to have it shown but I wasn't necessarily asking you, was more just wondering if there was something more missing?
And wondering what it was?
Was just wondering, (as gullible as the Tontatta seem, they also seem equally gullible to good and bad influences as well and repeatedly even to those who formerly tricked them) ;
Did Manshelly do, or "apparently do", something even they couldn't forgive, ( as in worse than DD or his crew) ?
So that their gullibility didn't also allow them to believe her once she corrected them?

Ah I think I understand. You're wondering if maybe she used their gullibility against them or if maybe they just saw it that way, and they didn't forgive her.
That is possible.
Though I'm hoping its not as it would be funnier if my scenario was true …

dailyfiber

@Icarus:

Yeah I know I just thought it might be useful against Doffy's devil fruit abilities, then again Luffy will still lamp him.

Just seems that a lot of strong individuals have weapons in the new world eve though they don't seem to really need them, even Shanks used his sword to block Akainu at Marineford, they do have there uses in defence if not attack.

The only instance I've seen of individuals in One Piece having weapons that they didn't need was Teach and Kid having pistols in their pants. Even then that's more for design than anything. Shanks is clearly a swordsman. He used it when dueling with Whitebeard, when he was a kid in flashbacks, and used to spar with Mihawk.

Luffy using a sword seriously, even if it was just for defense, would be really out of place and strange.

Razh

@dailyfiber:

The only instance I've seen of individuals in One Piece having weapons that they didn't need was Teach and Kid having pistols in their pants. Even then that's more for design than anything. Shanks is clearly a swordsman. He used it when dueling with Whitebeard, when he was a kid in flashbacks, and used to spar with Mihawk.

Roger in Chapter 0 was shown holding a pistol and a sabre. Doubt he needed either of those to fight.

@dailyfiber:

Luffy using a sword seriously, even if it was just for defense, would be really out of place and strange.

Don't see how it would be strange. Luffy's not above using props to help him while fighting. Some of those props include shark teeth, a mast, a wooden box, a marine, a big ball made of gold (although he had no choice there)… Won't count that sword thing on Thriller Bark, since it was a shadow skill.

RamistaR

LoL I don't know why, I always imagined Roger sneaking through Grand Line, avoiding fight and running away from Garp, Shiki and Whitebeard.

It's only after joining Arlong Park that I found out. A majority of readers consider Roger as a powerhouse.

PhoenixBoosh

Lets just hope they recruited some new, stronger Vice-Admirals at the World Military Draft.

Mr Bushido 1

no leak this week D:

shanksa

i hope greenbull will appear :D

this is a war not a battle :D

Unlucky-kat

good chapter. Very good chapter