@Nex:
Bellamy disappeared for nearly 500 chapters and then showed back up as a different character.
Erm…he is a different character now. He got defeated, then punished by man he admired, then his already damaged wordview got shattered when he saw sky island with his own eyes. Then he had years to rethink his attitude and beliefs. If he stayed the same after all this, that would have been bad writing.
The Timeskip has been two years, after all. It's be more of a surprise if characters remained the same after all that time for development. We certainly saw it with Brownbeard and Kuzan, and of course the Straw Hats to an extent. I'm fine with Bellamy having changed over this time, especially given when we last saw him he'd been set up for a massive fall. I imagine we'll get more detail about his development in some later chapter, but even if not, it dosn't cheapen Jaya for me in the slightest. Besides, New!Bellamy is hardly some kind of saint. He still seems a bit of a thug, just now he's a thug with morals.
moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
@Print:
The Timeskip has been two years, after all. It's be more of a surprise if characters remained the same after all that time for development. We certainly saw it with Brownbeard and Kuzan, and of course the Straw Hats to an extent. I'm fine with Bellamy having changed over this time, especially given when we last saw him he'd been set up for a massive fall. I imagine we'll get more detail about his development in some later chapter, but even if not, it dosn't cheapen Jaya for me in the slightest. Besides, New!Bellamy is hardly some kind of saint. He still seems a bit of a thug, just now he's a thug with morals.
Thinking about it, this is the main reason the One Piece timeskip is infinitely better executed than Naruto or Bleach, or many others - things HAPPENED during 2 years of absence. Giving the world a more realistic feel, having characters do and achieve things on their own during this time, and we are basically exploring a whole new world, with old characters that have done new things, and we can get to know them again anew. While in Naruto, for example, everyone still had the exact same opinion, achievements, and mostly design, as 3 years ago… and nothing happened during that time. This is why I loved how Bellamy reappeared and had a change of heart, rose up in the world - because it's NATURAL.
(I have to admit I didn't like Brownbeard's reappearance, though, for different reasons...)
On-topic, I really don't know what to expect from these team-up matches. Going to be crazy, I can't predict anything!
@Nex:
You think Crocodile has been redeemed? What? The only member of BW who was redeemed is Mr.2 and it happened in Alabasta as character development. Crocodile is still a scumbag who regrets none of his actions. So he helped save Luffy? So what. He only did it because he didn't want Akainu to win. Mr. 1 still sits right by his side. The rest of the gang. We have no indication that they've been redeemed.
Sorry I really don't see how Mr 2's redemption was character development. It was like … he suddenly turned into an ally. You know, a few days after impersonating the king, burning down a city, trying to kill Vivi, beating up Usopp and fighting Sanji he became instant friends with the Strawhats!
Mr 3, on the other hand, was (slightly) redeemed by his actions at Marineford. And that was actually believable and gradual development (inasmuch as we kind of saw his motivation and then him do something which was self-acknowledgedly out of character for him ... there was a genuine sense of change). And as I said before, that doesn't make him feel any less evil to me when reading Little Garden than he did before. Because he's pretty damn evil there.
I also don't buy the idea that characters didn't change in the time we didn't see them. Mr 3's a great example again, going from the brilliantly guy he was in Little Garden & Alabasta to being pretty much a broken man in Impel Down. It's an understandable change, but it definitely happened off-panel. I'd argue Bellamy's transformation is also understandable, especially going off the narrow explanation we've had so far. Of course, I'm hoping we'll get more, but honestly I'm happy to buy into his transformation after his defeat and I'm much more interested in where his character is going from now.
After some experimenting this is the best i could come up with so far and because the matches will start soon I will use this for predictions…
The solution to the question which match was the lowest red dot:
! Bellamy vs Fujitora. Bellamy was one of the worst ranked characters before his change and Fujitora just won the final, so he was very high up.
And here the predictions for round two:
[13]Doflamingo & [16]Noland vs. [6]Robin & [12]Magellan 47.54 - 52.46
[30]Monet & [17]Sanji vs. [47]Caesar Clown & [18]Buggy 51.45 - 48.55
[9]Jinbe & [29]Akainu vs. [36]Kuma & [38]Bepo 55.17 - 44.83
[52]Fisher Tiger & [26]Bellamy vs. [4]Whitebeard & [7]Garp 39.95 - 60.05
[1]Kuzan & [49]Perona vs. [25]Hancock & [28]Mr. 3 54.57 - 45.43
[37]Moriah & [21]Shanks vs. [46]Laboon & [2]Nami 45.47 - 54.53
[11]Franky & [14]Zoro vs. [105]Tyrannosaurus + [31]Iceburg & [3]Crocodile 55.04 - 44.96
[8]Brook & [5]Enel vs. [79]Fujitora & [34]Crocus 62.17 - 37.83
Caesar and Buggy? Whitebeard and Garp? This is looking good. I like the Moriah-Shanks and Akainu-Jinbe tags too.
@Señor:
The solution to the question which match was the lowest red dot:
! Bellamy vs Fujitora. Bellamy was one of the worst ranked characters before his change and Fujitora just won the final, so he was very high up.
And here the predictions for round two:
[13]Doflamingo & [16]Noland vs. [6]Robin & [12]Magellan 47.54 - 52.46
[30]Monet & [17]Sanji vs. [47]Caesar Clown & [18]Buggy 51.45 - 48.55
[9]Jinbe & [29]Akainu vs. [36]Kuma & [38]Bepo 55.17 - 44.83
[52]Fisher Tiger & [26]Bellamy vs. [4]Whitebeard & [7]Garp 39.95 - 60.05
[1]Kuzan & [49]Perona vs. [25]Hancock & [28]Mr. 3 54.57 - 45.43
[37]Moriah & [21]Shanks vs. [46]Laboon & [2]Nami 45.47 - 54.53
[11]Franky & [14]Zoro vs. [105]Tyrannosaurus + [31]Iceburg & [3]Crocodile 55.04 - 44.96
[8]Brook & [5]Enel vs. [79]Fujitora & [34]Crocus 62.17 - 37.83
Yeah I got one of the two characters! Still better than nothing!
By the way thank you for processing such amount of data and providing us those statistics, it's like going back at my Statistic's exam :D
Yeah I got one of the two characters! Still better than nothing!
By the way thank you for processing such amount of data and providing us those statistics, it's like going back at my Statistic's exam :D
My pleasure, numbers are a fascinating thing! I only hope that match 1 and 6 are predicted wrong. :whistling:
@Señor:
My pleasure, numbers are a fascinating thing! I only hope that match 1 and 6 are predicted wrong. :whistling:
Silly n, you obviously confused match 5 for match 6, no biggie. :ninja:
(in all seriousness, thanks for these statistics!)
Silly n, you obviously confused match 5 for match 6, no biggie. :ninja:
Say what?
!
Sha-riah will prevail!!
@Señor:
Say what?
!
Sha-riah will prevail!!
@Señor:
Say what?
! http://i.imgur.com/51TawxN.jpg
Sha-riah will prevail!!
Photoshop AND Wordplay.
These matches are gonna' be interesting.
Meta, I love you. Not that I needed convincing, but had I not, this is what sold me.
yay!
Man. These posts by those that hate character redemption…. are awful.
Luffy knocked some sense into Bellamy and he isn't a complete dick anymore as a result. What's wrong with that?
Complicating things since 2009.
I think I get what Nex is trying to say. We were never really given that indication what was the turning point in Bellamy's transformation or if the mindset was an immediate change after his defeat or just a mindset that changed gradually over time. And knowing that, or getting a better grasp of the change is different than just being told things are different now. And we weren't hinted that this would occur beforehand. His reappearance begins with him with the change of mindset and his transformation was alluded to in exposition during his reintroduction conversation.
Personally think though Bellamy's actions didn't make him irredeemable or that this change was impossible for him, and I thought that reintroducing Bellamy if he didn't undergo some drastic change over the time skip would have been pointless and unnecessary, so I'm personally fine with how it's being handled.
Luffy knocked some sense into Bellamy and he isn't a complete dick anymore as a result. What's wrong with that?
Cept, we saw Bellamy after the fight with Luffy, when he was groveling at Doflamingo's feat. And he was still the same guy. All Luffy's punch did was get him in hot shit with Doflamingo. Honestly, I wouldn't even say he's redeemed yet, but this forum has aggravated my issue with it. Yes, his arc's not over and by the end I may be happy with it, but everyone here is already acting like Bellamy is some great stand-up guy. I'm pretty sure that if I avoided the manga/tournament sections of this forum my issues with this whole thing would not be so great. But alas, to be a part of a community, no?
In the end, it's going to come down to how the rest of this arc plays out. But the main root of my issue is this: from what we saw of Bellamy on Jaya, there was never even a shimmer of something that might be redeemable. He was a villain who was designed to be hated and loathed as much as possible. If he has any decency in him, Luffy's punch would not be as great as it is. For him to show back up with a character turnaround is jarring.
When you're writing a character redemption arc it has to start at a place of belief. Valjean's been in prison for 19 years. Why? He stole a loaf of bread (and tried to escape) but those actions were to help his starving family. He's got decency in him from the beginning. Then he gets out of prison and fails his first test, only to be given to oh so rare second chance. Then he does everything in his power to be a rihteous man, and he passes the second test: turning himself in. And so on and so forth.
For redemption to mean anything, it has to be earned. Mr. 2 earned his redemption. He did despicable things in Alabasta. By the end of the arc though, he was on his way. In Impel Down, he completed his redemption, and it is still one of the most moving moments in the series.
Bellamy though… He's just a decent guy now, how swell is that. Bellamy's "redemption" has none of the heart, the earnestness that Bon Clay's does. And that's my problem with it. And it's why I take such issue with the love this place now seems to have for Bellamy.
@Nex:
Cept, we saw Bellamy after the fight with Luffy, when he was groveling at Doflamingo's feat. And he was still the same guy. All Luffy's punch did was get him in hot shit with Doflamingo. Honestly, I wouldn't even say he's redeemed yet, but this forum has aggravated my issue with it. Yes, his arc's not over and by the end I may be happy with it, but everyone here is already acting like Bellamy is some great stand-up guy. I'm pretty sure that if I avoided the manga/tournament sections of this forum my issues with this whole thing would not be so great. But alas, to be a part of a community, no?
In the end, it's going to come down to how the rest of this arc plays out. But the main root of my issue is this: from what we saw of Bellamy on Jaya, there was never even a shimmer of something that might be redeemable. He was a villain who was designed to be hated and loathed as much as possible. If he has any decency in him, Luffy's punch would not be as great as it is. For him to show back up with a character turnaround is jarring.
When you're writing a character redemption arc it has to start at a place of belief. Valjean's been in prison for 19 years. Why? He stole a loaf of bread (and tried to escape) but those actions were to help his starving family. He's got decency in him from the beginning. Then he gets out of prison and fails his first test, only to be given to oh so rare second chance. Then he does everything in his power to be a rihteous man, and he passes the second test: turning himself in. And so on and so forth.
For redemption to mean anything, it has to be earned. Mr. 2 earned his redemption. He did despicable things in Alabasta. By the end of the arc though, he was on his way. In Impel Down, he completed his redemption, and it is still one of the most moving moments in the series.
Bellamy though… He's just a decent guy now, how swell is that. Bellamy's "redemption" has none of the heart, the earnestness that Bon Clay's does. And that's my problem with it. And it's why I take such issue with the love this place now seems to have for Bellamy.
The dude had character development, isn't that what everyone keeps asking for? His arrogance stemmed from ignorance and the idolizing of Doflamingo, when he went to Skypiea some of his beliefs were shaken, you could say that was like a wake up call. When you go through an experience like this, then naturally you'll start remembering some of the past incidents in your life and how wrong you were back then and probably regrets some of your actions. And for Bellamy it was exactly that, a couple of days ago he was laughing his ass off over a chestnut head dude and anyone who shares his beliefs, the next day he ended up living through these thoughts and beliefs by himself, naturally the mockery will turn to respect, and the arrogance will turn into modesty, don't you see how his change makes perfect sense?
Who says assholes can't be redeemed?
What is Oden saying to WB?
Become my son Whitebeard.
The dude had character development, isn't that what everyone keeps asking for? His arrogance stemmed from ignorance and the idolizing of Doflamingo, when he went to Skypiea some of his beliefs were shaken, you could say that was like a wake up call. When you go through an experience like this, then naturally you'll start remembering some of the past incidents in your life and how wrong you were back then and probably regrets some of your actions. And for Bellamy it was exactly that, a couple of days ago he was laughing his ass off over a chestnut head dude and anyone who shares his beliefs, the next day he ended up living through these thoughts and beliefs by himself, naturally the mockery will turn to respect, and the arrogance will turn into modesty, don't you see how his change makes perfect sense?
Who says assholes can't be redeemed?
Assholes can be redeemed. But there is a big difference between character change and character development. Change happens quickly in storytelling. Generally out of the blue. A character is one way and then the next time we see them they're another. Development happens slower. It's a process that takes an entire story to tell, or in the case of One-Piece one or more arcs. Development happens little by little. It is an intimate experience between the character and the reader. It's what, as a writer, you want to do. Why? Because it's showing, not telling.
In the writing world, that's what it always comes down to. Character change is simply telling the reader that this character has a new set of morals and ideals. Development is showing those new morals and ideals take hold. It's a character going through conflict and being changed for better or worse.
Bellamy underwent character change. He was one way, and then he's another 500 chapters later. When he showed back up we were told he was different. We weren't shown it. Now, does that mean it's set in stone? No. Retroactive character development is a common tool, and it will most likely be done with Bellamy. He's about to undergo development to prove he is a new man, and this is when he really will be redeemed. Or he'll prove himself to be a scumbag. Obviously it'll be the former. That's not even remotely an issue.
In the end, what you're telling me are your assumptions on his change. In the story we've seen none of that. This is you writing the development for him, because you need it.
–---------
But seriously, this all comes down to this whole redemption thing, marring my retroactive view of Jaya. But the people who find this sentiment to be laughable never answered my question.
What if Arlong were to randomly show back up and thank Luffy and then they became friends. Would that not mar the near flawless Arlong Park? Would your feeling while reading it not be different? Would your hatred toward Arlong not be as Potent?
What if Spandam decided he wants to thank Robin and they become friends. Would that not change the feeling you get every time that insufferable prick is even on screen. Or when he's grinding Robin's face into the pavement and treating her like utter garbage? And when she breaks his back, would that moment not be less powerful?
It's a naive idea that current developments don't affect your outlook on past developments. They have to. That's the nature of the beast when it comes to storytelling. The minute you learn Vader is Luke's father, all those previous scenes with him change. Maybe not immensely. But they change nonetheless.
I hope this can convince you guys
!
I take your point about character change vs character development. But the development that we're bound to see in more detail later in the arc is implied now.
@Nex:
But seriously, this all comes down to this whole redemption thing, marring my retroactive view of Jaya. But the people who find this sentiment to be laughable never answered my question.
What if Arlong were to randomly show back up and thank Luffy and then they became friends. Would that not mar the near flawless Arlong Park? Would your feeling while reading it not be different? Would your hatred toward Arlong not be as Potent?
What if Spandam decided he wants to thank Robin and they become friends. Would that not change the feeling you get every time that insufferable prick is even on screen. Or when he's grinding Robin's face into the pavement and treating her like utter garbage? And when she breaks his back, would that moment not be less powerful?It's a naive idea that current developments don't affect your outlook on past developments. They have to. That's the nature of the beast when it comes to storytelling. The minute you learn Vader is Luke's father, all those previous scenes with him change. Maybe not immensely. But they change nonetheless.
Obviously, it's hard to judge on hypothetical examples. I would certianly like to think not. Reading the arc where someone's a villain builds up their villainy (once again). The absolute best example of this is probably Mr 3.
Well, I suppose it is inevitable that they will have a small change on how you view scenes in an earlier arc. But it never ought to be a huge change. I mean I just reread Jaya recently and the new Bellamy we've seen so far didn't seem to take away from that arc, not noticeably anyway.
Also, I would challenge the idea that Bellamy is as unforgivably evil as Arlong and Spandam. Those guys are people who inflicted a lot on particular SHs (Nami, Robin and Franky). Bellamy is just a small time villain in comparison. Like Mr 3.
Bellamy was really thematically significant, with the whole 'pirates shouldn't dream' thing. But the absolute peak of his villainy is beating up some good-guy-pirates to steal their gold.
@Nex:
Assholes can be redeemed. But there is a big difference between character change and character development. Change happens quickly in storytelling. Generally out of the blue. A character is one way and then the next time we see them they're another. Development happens slower. It's a process that takes an entire story to tell, or in the case of One-Piece one or more arcs. Development happens little by little. It is an intimate experience between the character and the reader. It's what, as a writer, you want to do. Why? Because it's showing, not telling.
In the writing world, that's what it always comes down to. Character change is simply telling the reader that this character has a new set of morals and ideals. Development is showing those new morals and ideals take hold. It's a character going through conflict and being changed for better or worse.
Bellamy underwent character change. He was one way, and then he's another 500 chapters later. When he showed back up we were told he was different. We weren't shown it. Now, does that mean it's set in stone? No. Retroactive character development is a common tool, and it will most likely be done with Bellamy. He's about to undergo development to prove he is a new man, and this is when he really will be redeemed. Or he'll prove himself to be a scumbag. Obviously it'll be the former. That's not even remotely an issue.
How much did he change? That's the question that you should be asking. Was it normal for his character to have that change based on what he told us went through or not?
In the end, what you're telling me are your assumptions on his change. In the story we've seen none of that. This is you writing the development for him, because you need it.
The funny thing is that Bellamy says the exact same thing in the manga, so I'm not really making up anything.
–---------
But seriously, this all comes down to this whole redemption thing, marring my retroactive view of Jaya. But the people who find this sentiment to be laughable never answered my question.
What if Arlong were to randomly show back up and thank Luffy and then they became friends. Would that not mar the near flawless Arlong Park? Would your feeling while reading it not be different? Would your hatred toward Arlong not be as Potent?
What if Spandam decided he wants to thank Robin and they become friends. Would that not change the feeling you get every time that insufferable prick is even on screen. Or when he's grinding Robin's face into the pavement and treating her like utter garbage? And when she breaks his back, would that moment not be less powerful?It's a naive idea that current developments don't affect your outlook on past developments. They have to. That's the nature of the beast when it comes to storytelling. The minute you learn Vader is Luke's father, all those previous scenes with him change. Maybe not immensely. But they change nonetheless.
Why are you ignoring the differences between these characters, one of which are the age/time difference. Bellamy was a rookie, new to pirate life, ignorant. The change in their characters is to be expected when faced with simillar situation. Arlong, Crocodile, Enel etc.. spent longer times with their mindsets and beliefs that changing them would be a harder process.
A comparable example (in term of character change) would be Fisher Tiger and Jinbe…
Edit: To answer you're question; honestly, no. If a change happen and I feel it was bad then I would probably keep going back to that time in the story before the change, where I think things were better... it's like someone picking up a random arc in the story and reading it multiple times because it's their favorite, even if the rest of the story was bad (Naruto, anyone?). On the other hand, if a change happens that I feel was good and make sense, then I would probably appreciate past arcs even more---> reads Skypiea.
I just realized, nevermind how you put the Mo-riah and Sha-nks tag team together, be it Sha-riah or Mo-nks, both are religious subjects. Now it´s official, this is a holy alliance and it shall advance!! :shocked:
@Señor:
I just realized, nevermind how you put the Mo-riah and Sha-nks tag team together, be it Sha-riah or Mo-nks, both are religious subjects. Now it´s official, this is a holy alliance and it shall advance!! :shocked:
Hahahaha .
I've always found the whole character redemption/second chance debate interesting.
On the one hand I have nothing against characters being developed, or turning around a new leaf. I adored some of the comedic villain coverstories.
On the other, that all depends on the severity of their misdeeds; some things are just flat out not acceptable. Theres a reason Arlong and Spandam arent turning up as redeemed allies, and I pray that Oda is going to keep Caesar a complete asshole. Oda seems to have those villains pegged though; Hody was basically killed off.
My main issue in this whole thing is that of Punishment. Arlong is rotting in jail, true, but someone like Crocodile spent what, 2 months in prison? And now, through the power of character reintroduction, he's back in the game, and not exactly doing charity work. He's not a close ally of Luffy, or a totally redeemed saint but…he essentially got off scot free. And that bugs the shit out of me.
Maybe Croc is better at escaping from the Navy when Luffy hasn't just beat the shit out of him
Erm what? The point I was trying to make was that a megalomaniacal criminal mastermind was brought down, but recieved nothing more than a slap on the wrist for the two years of death, despair and drought he caused.
@The:
Erm what? The point I was trying to make was that a megalomaniacal criminal mastermind was brought down, but recieved nothing more than a slap on the wrist for the two years of death, despair and drought he caused.
Slap on the wrist so far.
Karma's gon get 'im!
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866
new "new"3ds code friend:0791-4253-7110 (monster hunter)
I'm 99.9% certain that if Croc shows up in OP's epilogue, he will be free as a bird and doing something other than hurting civilians.
From the perspective of Oda, all the events of Alabasta were not enough to stop him from giving Croc the get-out-of-jail-free card, I don't see why he should get any punishment now espeically as he has reawakened his dreams and is more subordinate friendly.
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/03/SteveIrwin_wideweb__470x314,0.jpg
:ninja:
I admit defeat
…for now.:ninja:
@The:
I'm 99.9% certain that if Croc shows up in OP's epilogue, he will be free as a bird and doing something other than hurting civilians.
From the perspective of Oda, all the events of Alabasta were not enough to stop him from giving Croc the get-out-of-jail-free card, I don't see why he should get any punishment now espeically as he has reawakened his dreams and is more subordinate friendly.
I think a better example would be Wapol, considering the level of Karma Houdini he pulled. Not only did he become rich again and get a beautiful wife, but he ends up with another kingdom anyways
Crocodile was a Shichibukai,who got beaten up by a early-stage rookie.This was punishment enough for him and bring his arrogant self little down to earth.
Wapol is the true Karma Houdini - he is now king,inventor,husband.Before that he was just hated king.
As much as I love character redemption debate, I have to ask. Will this round be starting any time soon?
And by soon I mean is there a set date that the second round is planned to begin?
If yes, are we allowed to know the set time?
If yes again, may one of you lovely organizers be a dear and tell us?
Let them take a break. Plus, it is the weekend, I wouldn't be surprised if they're planning for it to start Monday or Tuesday, otherwise the first couple matches won't get a lot of votes.
Also, I admit, the conversation above is making me like Crocodile less, mostly because it's true that he hasn't suffered enough to make up for what he did to Vivi and Alabasta. Then again, I have a feeling that him, Wapol, Enel and others characters like that will have their consequences later on.
Wasn't telling them to hurry up. Just curious if a timetable was in place.
@The:
Erm what? The point I was trying to make was that a megalomaniacal criminal mastermind was brought down, but recieved nothing more than a slap on the wrist for the two years of death, despair and drought he caused.
Croc's a dime a dozen, tons of notorious criminals escaped Impel Down
Croc's comeuppance is his image getting shattered when it turns out he's really a post-Ivankov woman.
Crocodile was a Shichibukai,who got beaten up by a early-stage rookie.This was punishment enough for him and bring his arrogant self little down to earth.
What? No, it isn't. It really really isn't. Try thinking about this from the perspective of the people in the OP universe- do you think any citizen of Alabasta is cool with Croc running around, free as a bird, suffering no consequences for his actions? "Oh well he has to live with the shame of defeat lolololol". No way. Croc escaping his punishmentthat easily should be a cause of great grief, frustration and anger, but aside from one token line from Luffy in ID, this has in no way been what Oda has done. Oda was more interesting in bringing him back (for funs sake I guess, he doesn't seem to have any real plan for him) than letting him suffer his punishment.
As readers we saw firsthand how Arlong shot Bellemeres brains out, so Oda knows better than to bring him back ever again. But Croc? Nah, he just caused years of draught, sparked a civil war, tried murdering his subordinates firsthand on several occasions, mentally tortured Vivi on several occasions and tormented Toto for shits and giggles, but we never saw him kill anyones relative on panel so he's free to go. Plus, he's a fan favourite, so people don't mind.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Croc's a dime a dozen, tons of notorious criminals escaped Impel Down
What exactly is your point? How does this adress what I'm talking about? I don't think we're discussing the issue on the same level here.
From the perspective of us readers, we don't know any of the other prisoners. We can only imagine what scumbags they are, and what horrible things they have done, but with Croc we've seen them firsthand- and we also see that he's not paying any price for them.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Cyan:
Croc's comeuppance is his image getting shattered when it turns out he's really a post-Ivankov woman.
Completing his transformation from top tier villain of the series to non-threatening supporting character with no punishment in between.
It'll be the Vegetas Pink Shirt of OP.
"Hahahaahaha, you were a GIRL!"
"Shut the hell up! I caused untold suffering for one of your best friends, remember?"
"Lol, that was a long time ago. You were a GIRL lolll!!!
It's easy to forget how villainous villains were after their role in the series gets changed.
I mean, take CC right now. Being used as comic relief kinda pastes over all the seriously evil experiments he was doing back on PH.
@Print:
It's easy to forget how villainous villains were after their role in the series gets changed.
It's quite funny how same people can praise Crocodile, and bash Caesar for what he did.
Its a matter of taste of course, but I mostly mean this tourney reasoning.
We're looking to start the next round either tomorrow or the day after that, depending on the schedule that we want to run with. You get to work on your stuff today. As past experiences have proved, starting new rounds on weekends when people have other things to do is a rather bad idea.
I'll give you the date when we have come to a conclusion on the matter, but know that it's only a couple of days away.
That sounds fair to me.
Teams Doflamorland and Robellan, get ready!
@The:
What exactly is your point? How does this adress what I'm talking about? I don't think we're discussing the issue on the same level here.
From the perspective of us readers, we don't know any of the other prisoners. We can only imagine what scumbags they are, and what horrible things they have done, but with Croc we've seen them firsthand- and we also see that he's not paying any price for them.
Just undermining your argument; had neither Luffy nor Blackbeard infiltrated Impel Down, Croc would still be there. Not sure how you're calling plot a "slap on the wrist" for him. He escaped and so did many other prisoners.
You are absolutely not getting what I'm saying.
My point is that Oda, the writer, wrote the story, One Piece, so that Crocodile, Bond style Supervillain, recieves no punishment for his actions.
If Oda thought Croc deserved to be punished for his actions, he would be. But Oda evidently doesn't.
Again, consider Arlong. Remember his coverstory, his escape from ID with Luffy, and how he is now shooting the shit somewhere? Now why don't you remember that, I wonder.
Team-up matches…
