For those who love Naruto like me:
http://kirk-op.jalbum.net/Naruto
Nardo and Bleh Thread III: Naruto is a terrible terrible manga
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That so far is the biggest plot hole I've seen since that reveal. The village loved the 4th. It makes no sense that Sarutobi would allow the villagers to shun the 4th's son. And that his mother is part of a revered clan that has the tradition of housing the beasts…It's very stupid when looking back on how Naruto was treated...Unless the 4th specifically thought...This is a character building exercise! I heard from my buddy in Sand Village that this is the way to raise strong, sane, well-adjusted children.
the 4th said that the villagers should have considered naruto an hero..or so sarutobi said..we didn'0t see him saying that in the flashback..we don't even know exactly when he would have the occasion to say such thing…
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It also means he had to work 4000 times more than others,as all the memory of the bushins go back to the original…he had extra power(Kyubi chakra),he worked extra hard too...
Kishi massacred the original theme by centering every powers around Uchiha and Senju...That totally undermined what Naruto fought for in his early years...
Yeah, maybe he did have to, but then you have to ask yourself - how far does the whole thing go? When Naruto disables his clones does he feel the pain they did when they were killed? Does he feel the air they breath? What does learning mean? If a clone, during the training, saw a bunch of grass and was thinking "this grass looks silly" does this all come back to the original Naruto? And if yes, then how did Naruto manage to comprehend the feelings, learnings and hardships of all of the clones at the same time? Okay, I might be going a bit far with this, but I still think if Naruto only felt the learning process itself, and not the hardships, the boredom, the feeling of "what if I'll fail", then it's not hard work. This is different then when Rock Lee was training to beat Neji, when he cried talking to Guy that he doesn't know if he'll ever be as good as the rest, this is just Naruto using a deus ex machina technique, a bunch of Rare Candy, to get a bunch of level ups and learn a new technique.
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Weren't they not suppossed to talk about Naruto's past so that the kyubi wouldn't go berserk and also to not label naruto as a target to other villages?
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Weren't they not suppossed to talk about Naruto's past so that the kyubi wouldn't go berserk
How would Naruto knowing about his past cause the Kyuubi to go berserk?
and also to not label naruto as a target to other villages?
All right, that I can understand.
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Still doesn't explain why he got treated so terribly. I still say it hardly makes any sense. It's like in X-Men when mutants that want to be left alone get harassed and then people are surprised when they start blowin' shit up. All those parallels between Naruto and Gaara were in a way wasted due to all this rehashing and retconning. I actually liked that Naruto had seen what he could have become, we all saw what he could have been like. But now it's tainted with having this noble lineage and confusing behavior from the masses. And Gaara being loved from the start…
The villagers still knew that the Fox was in him so I don't get why village secrecy would have been useful? He still wound up a target and it didn't seem like they were going to keep him locked away somewhere.
Or I could be not remembering stuff right. I'm sleepy. But I don't get the justification for the mistreatment.
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Still doesn't explain why he got treated so terribly. I still say it hardly makes any sense. It's like in X-Men when mutants that want to be left alone get harassed and then people are surprised when they start blowin' shit up. All those parallels between Naruto and Gaara were in a way wasted due to all this rehashing and retconning. I actually liked that Naruto had seen what he could have become, we all saw what he could have been like. But now it's tainted with having this noble lineage and confusing behavior from the masses. And Gaara being loved from the start…
The villagers still knew that the Fox was in him so I don't get why village secrecy would have been useful? He still wound up a target and it didn't seem like they were going to keep him locked away somewhere.
Or I could be not remembering stuff right. I'm sleepy. But I don't get the justification for the mistreatment.
I don't get it either. He is the son of the guy who saved the village. It's just weird.
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I don't get it either. He is the son of the guy who saved the village. It's just weird.
If Kishi planned that shit from the start it would've been different, but he didn't, and thats why its illogical, like everything else in the naruto world
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I actually feel that it is logical since fear comes much easier to people than gratitude
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I don't know why I'm trying to rationalize this, but if you think about it, it wasn't common knowledge that the Kyuubi went berserk because Kushina was attacked during child birth. Yes, it's stupid that he was treated like shit, but in the villagers heads, they didn't want Naruto in the village at all because of the possibility of the Kyuubi going buck wild. Yeah, I don't know I'm grasping at straws, I'm just trying to find some semblance of sense to appease myself =/
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@Aru:
Yeah, maybe he did have to, but then you have to ask yourself - how far does the whole thing go? When Naruto disables his clones does he feel the pain they did when they were killed? Does he feel the air they breath? What does learning mean? If a clone, during the training, saw a bunch of grass and was thinking "this grass looks silly" does this all come back to the original Naruto? And if yes, then how did Naruto manage to comprehend the feelings, learnings and hardships of all of the clones at the same time? Okay, I might be going a bit far with this, but I still think if Naruto only felt the learning process itself, and not the hardships, the boredom, the feeling of "what if I'll fail", then it's not hard work. This is different then when Rock Lee was training to beat Neji, when he cried talking to Guy that he doesn't know if he'll ever be as good as the rest, this is just Naruto using a deus ex machina technique, a bunch of Rare Candy, to get a bunch of level ups and learn a new technique.
no not the physical hardship,that part is taken care of by the energy he spent to create a bushin…bushin can only work that much hard as much energy it is given.....but Naruto get all the memories...that including what bushin did feel...
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@Aru:
Yeah, Kishi pretty much threw this one out the window and killed it with a kitchen knife when he introduced the fact that Naruto can learn stuff with his clones. Super hard technique that the best ninja couldn't finish? Bullshit Bushin no Jutsu x 4000! A few days of work and the deus ex machina is ready!
Funny, this is a pretty god-like power, Naruto has Kyuubis chakra, so he can do a fuck ton of clones and learn pretty much everything there is in a matter of, maybe, a year or two. Also, anyone remembers that this technique was written on an ancient scroll AND that this scroll contained other secret techniques? What happened to it? It would be a nice plot point if someone did steal the scroll and Naruto and some other ninjas would have to fight a guy with these great powers.Oh, yeah, it's Kishi we were talking about, he probably forgot…
No. Rasenshuriken is a bullshit attack, but Naruto worked for it.
Unlike his magical 'hey guys, I got a funky new seal on my tailed beast so now I can teleport like my dad even though I DON'T KNOW HOW TO' or at least that's how I interpreted it . . .
To be fair….he's not. Naruto's pretty impulsive, reckless, and virtually knows nothing on how to run a village.
See Tsunade.
The whole theme of the unknown underdog surpassing famous clans with sheer hard work and willpower was already lost, as soon as we saw that Naruto's father was the 4th Hokage… not exactly a random, unknown dude.
Really? For one … Minato is NOT from some famous clan. Secondly, the theme was always of the underdog surpassing the genius - whatever Naruto's lineage, it didn't change the fact that he was pretty rubbish at the start. Not to mention, even though he has some clan pwoers via his Uzumaki blood, it's nothing like having a kekkai genkai. In other words, it's still that loser kid who couldn't even do a clone technique who is managing to fight on the frontlines against the most otherwordly of powers (flowers), because HE was the one that fully 'tamed' the Kyuubi. Other than his bullshit teleporting, he did actually earn what he got.
Anyway, neither Naruto (an idiot) nor Sasuke (emotionally unstable) are a good choice, as a leader of a village… which is why one of them will succeed: the leaf village is basically the kingdom of Retardia, when it comes to make the right thing.
Naruto has already proved himself to be devoted to his village. As so many before it, he loves it from his teachers, his teachers' teachers, his classmates, even his traitor … furthermore, he has shown that he is able to earn the respect of others in the village. He has shown a very deep understanding of Jiraiya's dream, and he has both pride in hsi own village as well as being free from the prejudices born from history. He's built remarkable bond with figures from all over the ninja world. He's an idiot still, and he's reckless still but he's got his intentions in the right place, and he's widely enough respected. And there are advisors, you know.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don't know why I'm trying to rationalize this, but if you think about it, it wasn't common knowledge that the Kyuubi went berserk because Kushina was attacked during child birth. Yes, it's stupid that he was treated like shit, but in the villagers heads, they didn't want Naruto in the village at all because of the possibility of the Kyuubi going buck wild. Yeah, I don't know I'm grasping at straws, I'm just trying to find some semblance of sense to appease myself =/
If you want to think about why Naruto was treated as he was, think about the treatment of mentally ill people, both in the past and also in the present in many areas … the whole Jinchuuriki thing was hardly widely understood - there is this idea present that Naruto is the demon fox in the form of a boy, that it means he is himself inantely violent and murderous and that only needs to be awoken and he'll become a threat. We know it's not true, but that doesn't mean everyone else does . . .
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Weren't they not suppossed to talk about Naruto's past so that the kyubi wouldn't go berserk and also to not label naruto as a target to other villages?
Irony is whole village knew Naruto was a Jin…so it would have been no trouble for other villages to find him out...so security excuse doesn't hold...at least once Naruto became Genin(able to go outside the village boundary)....
Kishi fucked up by making Kushina a Jin....moreover making Kumo abducted her...even more so by making Kumo knew about her....that put Kushina on a very questionable position regarding her status in the village....if nobody(other than top echelon) knew then fine,but how did Kumo knew then,,?..etc. etc...
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See Tsunade.
tsunade had already a role in the administration of the village back when she was young,and still has around 50 years now,naruto right now doesn't have the kind of maturity needed to be an hokage.
in fact,he is not even that good of a ninja..he knows THREE jutsu,the rest is just sheer force due to the nine tails and his own inheritageIf you want to think about why Naruto was treated as he was, think about the treatment of mentally ill people, both in the past and also in the present in many areas … the whole Jinchuuriki thing was hardly widely understood - there is this idea present that Naruto is the demon fox in the form of a boy, that it means he is himself inantely violent and murderous and that only needs to be awoken and he'll become a threat. We know it's not true, but that doesn't mean everyone else does . . .
still,saying to all of them that he is the son of the beloved fourth hokage that saved the village from the kyuubi maybe would have spared for him some pretty damn heavy moments..keeping the fact that he is the jinchuuriki of the kyuubi that i understand,but not saying that he is the son of the forth makes no sense.
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Naruto has already proved himself to be devoted to his village. As so many before it, he loves it from his teachers, his teachers' teachers, his classmates, even his traitor … furthermore, he has shown that he is able to earn the respect of others in the village. He has shown a very deep understanding of Jiraiya's dream, and he has both pride in hsi own village as well as being free from the prejudices born from history. He's built remarkable bond with figures from all over the ninja world. He's an idiot still, and he's reckless still but he's got his intentions in the right place, and he's widely enough respected. And there are advisors, you know.
Sure, he already proved himself and got everyone to recognize him… which basically means he has already fulfilled his real dream at the end of Pain arc, since Naruto wanted to become Hokage in order to be recognized by everyone, not to lead the village (which is what a Hokage should do). He would make a wonderful hero for the village, or a wonderful symbol, but nothing more: he would basically be a "fake" Hokage, the one for the public display, but he would need a tutor for everything belonging to administration, strategy, and so on. Naruto would simply be the "face" you carve on mt. Rushmore, while a smart "Richelieu" manages the village in his name.
...which, in a place like the leaf village, could even work well, seeing how stupid they usually are. -
Really? For one … Minato is NOT from some famous clan. Secondly, the theme was always of the underdog surpassing the genius - whatever Naruto's lineage, it didn't change the fact that he was pretty rubbish at the start. Not to mention, even though he has some clan pwoers via his Uzumaki blood, it's nothing like having a kekkai genkai. In other words, it's still that loser kid who couldn't even do a clone technique who is managing to fight on the frontlines against the most otherwordly of powers (flowers), because HE was the one that fully 'tamed' the Kyuubi. Other than his bullshit teleporting, he did actually earn what he got.
But Minato WAS the Hokage, even praised often as some kinda genius if I remember correctly. Add into that the Uzumaki heritage with their large chakra amounts and fame that compared them to Senju's…you can't say his lineage doesn't factor in to his talents at all. He learns hard jutsu like the shadow clone (not to mention it's his Uzumaki level chakra + Kyuubi that even lets him use it so well) Rasengan (His dad's own jutsu, mind you) stuff like all that he learns a good bit faster than normal people. Shadow Clones and kyuubi can pretty much bullshit him through any situation, such as the shadow clones learning for him or gathering chakra, the Kyuubi freely helping him and making him super fast...somehow. Not to mention he didn't even learn to control the Kyuubi on his own, both parents had to help him by sealing a piece of themselves in him. Sure, Naruto trained and worked here and there, but compared to someone like Lee? He had it pretty easy.
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It's always funny seeing people claiming Naruto 'tamed' the beast inside him. He didn't tame the Kyuubi so much as called it by its first name and thus triggered its route (the tsundere one that is). Afterwards Kyuubi gradually revealed its true colours and now they're best buds. The ferocity and anger the Bijuu was once known for? Just a needed act to convince humans of its EVIL nature.
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Naruto: I'm glad you were sealed inside me, Kurama-chan.
Kurama: I-It's not like I wanted to be sealed inside you or anything! Baka! -
Naruto: I'm glad you were sealed inside me, Kurama.
Kurama: I-It's not like I wanted to be sealed inside you or anything! Idiot!If you oly said Baka istead of idiot…
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Naruto: I'm glad you were sealed inside me, Kurama.
Kurama: I-It's not like I wanted to be sealed inside you or anything! Idiot!Also needed a Kurama-kun. Or something lol.
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So, you guys wanted full-blown weaboo? Very well…
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insert kuramablushing.jpg
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I pretty much understand their relationship and all, but Kishi is taking it. way. too. far.
even a kitten looks more harmless than Kurama now.
I am not shitting you, here, look.
! compare that to that panel of the 9 tails meditating (someone should get it for me) and tell me who looks more harmful.
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insert kuramablushing.jpg
I believe you meant >insert thankskishi.gif No one made them gifs like Gekko
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@NER:
I pretty much understand their relationship and all, but Kishi is taking it. way. too. far.
even a kitten looks more harmless than Kurama now.
I am not shitting you, here, look.
! http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1351/1336367766_ca70896754.jpg compare that to that panel of the 9 tails meditating (someone should get it for me) and tell me who looks more harmful.
That´s one scary kitten though, don´t fuck with that kitten
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I've never seen that gif before; it's hilarious!
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Irony is whole village knew Naruto was a Jin…so it would have been no trouble for other villages to find him out...so security excuse doesn't hold...at least once Naruto became Genin(able to go outside the village boundary)....
Not everyone knew. Only like the people who were there against the fox were told or something like that. It's in maybe the first chapter or something . . .
Kishi fucked up by making Kushina a Jin….moreover making Kumo abducted her...even more so by making Kumo knew about her....that put Kushina on a very questionable position regarding her status in the village....if nobody(other than top echelon) knew then fine,but how did Kumo knew then,,?..etc. etc...
Spies.
tsunade had already a role in the administration of the village back when she was young,and still has around 50 years now,naruto right now doesn't have the kind of maturity needed to be an hokage.
Implies Naruto can be a good Hokage if he's a bit older (and, by the way, a couple of decades of wandering around gambling does not make you a better leader).
in fact,he is not even that good of a ninja..he knows THREE jutsu,the rest is just sheer force due to the nine tails and his own inheritage
(four if you count summoning) but he uses those three techniques in such great combination. It makes for better reading than Sasuke's "I do fire techniques" getting pretty much overwritten to be "I do lightning techniques" getting in turn overwritten to be "I use MAD EYE TECHNIQUES" with a dash of cursed seal along the way somewhere. And for all this 'sheer force' stuff … Naruto DOES use subterfuge sometimes (as bizarre as that is).
But Minato WAS the Hokage, even praised often as some kinda genius if I remember correctly. Add into that the Uzumaki heritage with their large chakra amounts and fame that compared them to Senju's…you can't say his lineage doesn't factor in to his talents at all. He learns hard jutsu like the shadow clone (not to mention it's his Uzumaki level chakra + Kyuubi that even lets him use it so well) Rasengan (His dad's own jutsu, mind you) stuff like all that he learns a good bit faster than normal people. Shadow Clones and kyuubi can pretty much bullshit him through any situation, such as the shadow clones learning for him or gathering chakra, the Kyuubi freely helping him and making him super fast...somehow. Not to mention he didn't even learn to control the Kyuubi on his own, both parents had to help him by sealing a piece of themselves in him. Sure, Naruto trained and worked here and there, but compared to someone like Lee? He had it pretty easy.
If you think genius is hereditary, you're an idiot. Moving on, if you think Naruto learned Rasengan faster than other people could, you're an idiot. He struggled with Rasengan … a lot. He still can't even use it properly because he lacks some fundamental skills. Shadow Clones, I grant you, he learned in like day, but with no small effort. And I notice you deliberately omitted his utter failure beforehand to even master the basic clone technique despite it being standard for someone of his age in the academy ... and you left out his general incompetence with teh summoning technique which led Jiraiya to remind us repeatedly how utterly untalented Naruto was.
Yeah, Naruto has had an easier ride than Lee, because Lee was the epitome of the 'talentless hard worker'. But to suggest that Naruto had everything handed to him is ridiculous. Until really recently, Kishi actually bothered to take his time over Naruto struggling and learning more stuff. He gave him only limited talents (using Sage Mode, his innately high Chakra, the Kyuubi, ...) and I think placed them more or less wisely. Sage Mode is a talent that crops up just before he becomes a 'hero', and by then, it's about time he got something he was good at. His high chakra is functionally insignificant given the Kyuubi. The Kyuubi gives him plenty of grief until he seals it with help ... and then his own efforts tame it. And his true talents are endearing because they don't necessarily make him a better ninja, but do turn out to be important - his determination and his ability to make bonds with people.
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Calling having the most powerful tailed beast, who provides him with pretty much unlimited chakra (now that they're all buddy-buddy), sealed inside him a "limited talent." HA! And Naruto didn't tame Kurama; Kurama became docile after Naruto learned his name (which was divulged to him by the monkey beast)…
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Damn, i really thought that Kishi would give us a suuuper amazing chapter, but he didn't :(. It wasn't bad either though. I really like the Sakura part, which is the main focus of the Chapter. I don't feel anything wrong with her development. And i also like her fighting style… a lot.
I thought that it was a bit forced that the Yuubi can make many little fodder things, though. I didn't like that Sasuke and Naruto helped Sakura out in the end. That wasn't necessary at all, she was fine by herself. She can still use that enormous power, at least i think that way, because the sign on her forehead is still there. So why Kishi? Would have been epic when Sakura done that by herself.
I look forward to the next chapters. But i would prefer more screentime for Sakura on rampage, because that's at the moment the best fighting style in this whole mess. I repeat myself, i know, but i love sheer force and physical fights^^. -
Implies Naruto can be a good Hokage if he's a bit older (and, by the way, a couple of decades of wandering around gambling does not make you a better leader).
of course i'm talking about the naruto we know now,not what he will be years from now.also as i said,tsunade was already involved in the politics of the village when she was young,so at least she has a good understanding of how the village works
(four if you count summoning) but he uses those three techniques in such great combination. It makes for better reading than Sasuke's "I do fire techniques" getting pretty much overwritten to be "I do lightning techniques" getting in turn overwritten to be "I use MAD EYE TECHNIQUES" with a dash of cursed seal along the way somewhere. And for all this 'sheer force' stuff … Naruto DOES use subterfuge sometimes (as bizarre as that is).
you can disagree with orochimaru definition of a ninja,but still three or four jutsu are an abysmal number of tecniques..look at the battle between orochimaru and the third,or even between orochimaru and jiraya..that was the kind of high level battle for a ninja,and naruto is nowhere near that level…moltiplications and various forms of rasengan are his answer for everything
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Folks are going about some "Naruto Akipuden".
It's totally a Dragon Ball AF thing,isn't it.
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Folks are going about some "Naruto Akipuden".
It's totally a Dragon Ball AF thing,isn't it.
It's just fan rumour. People are saying it's the part 3 of naruto and was caused by a bad interpritation of a random comment that kishimoto made about 4 years ago.
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Howaaa? A new article?
http://theappliedlogic.blogspot.com/2013/06/attack-from-behind-bleach-meets-call-of.html
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Howaaa? A new article?
http://theappliedlogic.blogspot.com/2013/06/attack-from-behind-bleach-meets-call-of.html
Yes!
sniff I get a mention! I'm honored!
I swear I've stumbled upon the fanfic before….but I couldn't even get through the first three paragraphs. And god, is it bad. Hiliarously bad.
"I understand that. But, she was funny when she take thing seriously and even trying to be all gorgeous by showing her enormous breasts.", Unohana said.
"It's kinda very difficult about the situation. Now the 10th Division ain't got no lieutanant.", Byakuya said.
Characterization? Pfft, that's for wimps.
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Can Sakura just die? I might just hate her more than Tsunade now…
Her last line about "catching up" to Naruto and Sasuke was priceless.
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So Sasuke spends the the start of the series getting stronger to get revenge. Then spend the rest of the series fucking up the villages, being hated by the ninja world. Then hears a bs story from the 1st and now wants to be the Hokage.
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"The Naruto fan" thing under your name made me giggle.
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Oh by the way, where are the spoilers? I want to laugh.
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@NER:
"The Naruto fan" thing under your name made me giggle.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh by the way, where are the spoilers? I want to laugh.
i am proud to wear it,no matter how much other people hate it here…
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i am proud to wear it,no matter how much other people hate it here…
Right on. That's a respectable opinion. It has a lot of flaws, but there's also a lot to like about it.
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Not to step on someone's toes, but what is there to be proud of
You read a comic and that's about it, it's not like a personal accomplishment or some sign of membership of a high class club or something like that -
Not to step on someone's toes, but what is there to be proud of
You read a comic and that's about it, it's not like a personal accomplishment or some sign of membership of a high class club or something like thatI just said it was a respectable opinion. As in, "not worthy of scorn." I think people forget that all too often. Of course reading a manga won't get you into a high class club. It's generally not much of a personal accomplishment either. But it is a fine way to be entertained, and one could do far, far, far worse.
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Not to step on someone's toes, but what is there to be proud of
You read a comic and that's about it, it's not like a personal accomplishment or some sign of membership of a high class club or something like thatWhat's the point of joining a discussion forum related to mangas,if you don't have enough love for it(say One Piece) and feel proud of it.?….you can just skim through chapter every week and be done with it...many people do..
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Not the next chapter, but I found this fanart amusing.
[hide][/hide]
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all hail NEO SANIN…...
Sauce got his snake summon back...:blink:
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Not the next chapter, but I found this fanart amusing.
[hide]http://i.imgur.com/WB2hosa.png[/hide]
Seems appropriate, considering how harmless the big ol' scary Demon Fox turned out to be in the end. Kinda lame how this all turned out…
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Seems appropriate, considering how harmless the big ol' scary Demon Fox turned out to be in the end. Kinda lame how this all turned out…
can we agree that Kurama had the worst character development in all of Naruto?
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! So Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke summon Gamakichi and….whoever the offspring of Katsuyu and Manda are, I guess.
! So why didn't anyone summon any huge ass animals before now? What even is the advantage of summoning huge animals to fight anymore? I just....I don't know what anything is anymore. -
! So Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke summon Gamakichi and….whoever the offspring of Katsuyu and Manda are, I guess.
! So why didn't anyone summon any huge ass animals before now? What even is the advantage of summoning huge animals to fight anymore? I just....I don't know what anything is anymore.! Hey guys, we're fighting against a monster who is supposed to be the strongest thing ever, what should we do?! I dunno, let summon some huge monsters, that would look cool I guess
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! So Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke summon Gamakichi and….whoever the offspring of Katsuyu and Manda are, I guess.
! So why didn't anyone summon any huge ass animals before now? What even is the advantage of summoning huge animals to fight anymore? I just....I don't know what anything is anymore.! how long the sannin were important?
Part1. kinda late to those paralels.