Chapter 480 "Counterattack" Discussion

CLERICSHADOW

@ Jinbei

We can't state facts about Kuma until we with out a doubt know what his devil fruit and his power truly is…even though it is plainly obvious what type of fruit he has, we can't just make him an over powered character with out knowing nothing about him...

I like how you are putting your opinions out about Kuma..but what I hate most is when people put there opinions and predictions as facts...

Please don't state your opinions as facts until we know what his power truly is...

@ Seal of Legends

Chibi Luffy for as long as he had Gear 3 activated

King Kobra

Kuma and Jimbei will be strong. There's like no doubt about the strength of the Schichibukai shown so far (Including Teach), but as long as Oda does it properly, I wouldn't mind if even Usopp manages to beat down one in his own.

Hell, we even know that Luffy didn't have a chance against such enemies as the Thriller Bark pirates untill he got lucky with the thing of having Usopp, a negative man, and getting the help of Lola and Ugly company. There may be more similar cases in the future, so it's not like Luffy and Zoro (I hate how everyone assumes that Zoro will be the one to bring down Mihawk. That's just way too predictable, like the thing of Luffy actually achieving his dream) have the rights to beat down every schichibukai the Strawhats come across.

Anointed

Wow, it's good to see some fiery competition in here, nice for a change. Better than the "who will/deserves character developmet next chapter."

Jinbei

@CLERICSHADOW:

@ Jinbei
We can't state facts about Kuma until we with out a doubt know what his devil fruit and his power truly is…even though it is plainly obvious what type of fruit he has, we can't just make him an over powered character with out knowing nothing about him...

I like how you are putting your opinions out about Kuma..but what I hate most is when people put there opinions and predictions as facts...

Please don't state your opinions as facts until we know what his power truly is...

I never said Kuma is Overpowered, I didn't state my opinions as fact, I love how you jump out of the blue & just say things like "your stating your opinion as fact" when I have not.

On Topic: How bout them SH

Ivotas

@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:

Well, Oda's obviously saving Jet Storm and Giganto Gattling Gun, so yeah, Giganto Rifle is either too hard to pull in a logical way or it's just Luffy's second strongest atack before Jet Storm.

You´re speaking of the attacks as if they already exists. With all the moves that exists everyone can throw in his guess and prove nothing. Heck, I´ll throw "Gigant Jet Storm" in again. What now? I win! :P

No but seriously, could something like Gigant Rifle even be performed? I mean the Gigant attacks are said to have air power harden Luffy´s body like bone. Shouldn´t he then be unable to twirl his arm around as he does during Rifle?

Greg

Shouldn´t he then be unable to twirl his arm around as he does during Rifle?

ACTUALLY! Since you bring it up. Imagine the force he'd get if he even managed to twist his bones like that? Theoretically he should be able to according to the 'manga physics' where even his bones are rubber. Can you imagine the torque that fucker would carry!!??? Christ! I pity the fool that would have to eat that should Oda ever decide to pull it off with Luffy.

CLERICSHADOW

@Jinbei:

I never said Kuma is Overpowered, I didn't state my opinions as fact, I love how you jump out of the blue & just say things like "your stating your opinion as fact" when I have not.

On Topic: How bout them SH

It's no use..it's like talking to a brick wall…

Ivotas

@Greg:

…Theoretically he should be able to according to the 'manga physics' where even his bones are rubber...

In normal mode yes, but the way it was explained in Gear 3rd the inflated body parts are as hard as bone which does not equal having rubber bones outside of that.

Greg

Just the fact that he's inflating his bones shows that his bones are just as versatile as he is. Don't forget: 骨から骨へ移動するパワー He's inflating his bones and just the fact that they can expand shows that he should be able to manipulate them as he likes. Even if they're 'hard' it doesn't mean they can't be stretched/twisted at will. And although we have seen no evidence of twisting, we've certainly seen the expanded bones stretch.

freedom

@Greg:

ACTUALLY! Since you bring it up. Imagine the force he'd get if he even managed to twist his bones like that? Theoretically he should be able to according to the 'manga physics' where even his bones are rubber. Can you imagine the torque that fucker would carry!!??? Christ! I pity the fool that would have to eat that should Oda ever decide to pull it off with Luffy.

I'm in totally agreement with you Greg… The Oda-physics knows no bounds especially when it comes to Luffy's character.... but a Giganto Rifle.... I hope you didn't just predict Moria's end, cause I don't see a return from something like that. hahaha!

Either way, My guess is that Oda will try to throw in as many of the original moves as possible. We've had pistol, and now bazooka, those were some of the first offensive moves we saw. I remember in the Luffy fight, I never expected Luffy to pull off Jet Gattling, yet, surpassing all logic, that was Luffy's final move.

Aldrich

Actually didn't he twist his entire torso when he used Storm against Aokiji? He looked like a human spring.

Jinbei

@CLERICSHADOW:

It's no use..it's like talking to a brick wall…

….....So your saying Im "stating my opinions as fact." I tell you I have not, & my posts show, that I have not, you come back with "its no use, it's like talking to a brick wall." I will just take this as your way of saying, you made a mistake.:)

boiga

@Ivotas:

In normal mode yes, but the way it was explained in Gear 3rd the inflated body parts are as hard as bone which does not equal having rubber bones outside of that.

My understanding is more that gear three works by using pneumatic pressure to give the area of inflated rubberbone the hardness of rock. It's like a car tire that can be very pliable when empty but very hard when full.

Inflating the bones vs inflating the skin is a change in the grade of rubber. Luffy's skin is is like a water balloon while his bones are the equivalent of a tire or basket ball.

So, a gear three rifle would work just fine, but only the fist section would likely be inflated. This would greatly increase the damage caused by the move, but might hurt its speed and accuracy whicha re the main benefits of using the rifle attack.

An axe or whip attack might be a better use of the gear three ability as that would be one gigantic wall of rubber knocking you around.

eerie

Well, according to how Gear 3rd seems to work, it would seem like him bending while activating Gear 3rd would not be very likely. But who knows with Oda. Maybe he can "soften" them with the love sent from Sanji to Nami if he stands RIGHT in between them, or some weird ass shit comparable to other things he's done in the past. :) I'm sure we'd end up going along with it in the end.

Edit: @boiga: That's an interesting concept with the "fist section." I wonder how much control he has over his body in Gear 3rd as of now, or if he'll gain more control as we progress.

Kma

I think Gear 3 Rifle would be on par if not stronger then Golden rifle.

Ivotas

@Greg:

Just the fact that he's inflating his bones shows that his bones are just as versatile as he is. Don't forget: 骨から骨へ移動するパワー He's inflating his bones and just the fact that they can expand shows that he should be able to manipulate them as he likes. Even if they're 'hard' it doesn't mean they can't be stretched/twisted at will. And although we have seen no evidence of twisting, we've certainly seen the expanded bones stretch.

I guess you´re right. I immedietely interpreted hard as unstretchable without further consideration.^^

AWB

For some reason, despite not being one of my favorite chapters, I can't stop reading it. I feel like I'm missing something important. I like it when Oda stretches his creativity bone (no, not his penis) but I'm not seeing that in this chapter. Yet I feel like I should be seeing it.

CLERICSHADOW

@Jinbei:

I never said Kuma is Overpowered, I didn't state my opinions as fact, I love how you jump out of the blue & just say things like "your stating your opinion as fact" when I have not.

On Topic: How bout them SH

I knew this was gonna be a waste of time..but you want prove…ok here you go...

@Jinbei:

Kuma>Moria, at this point. its not just the dignity of the Shichibukai, its the dignity of all the World Powers. How would Luffy vs Kuma be like Luffy vs Bleuno?

Kuma>Moria huh? there were ways you could of made it look like your opinion..but you didn't…you stated it as a fact...

@Jinbei:

Moria would not be able to touch a shadow that moves in an instant. In the Next instant he would be in the Ocean. I didn't say anything about Luffy dodging, I said Luffy could not shrug off Perona's attack like Kuma did.

How do you kno this????? Another one of your opinions stated as if it were a FACT…look it up and see what it means..

If you would put your words in a diffrent setting then it wouldn't look like you were doing all this…

@Jinbei:

….....So your saying Im "stating my opinions as fact." I tell you I have not, & my posts show, that I have not, you come back with "its no use, it's like talking to a brick wall." I will just take this as your way of saying, you made a mistake.:)

No my friend..I knew that I would be wasting my time doing this, because I know that with every fact that I proved that you made you will still disagree with me, thus "talking to a brick wall"….and I don't make mistakes :)

@Jinbei:

They are a Power that Equals the likes of the MHQ & Yonkou, It does matter if the likes of Robin can take out one & Sanji can take out another.

Another statement you made as a **FACT..**The words "It does matter" just shakes that one..

@Jinbei:

Kuma does his teleporting in an instant. Kuma shruged off Perona's attack, when Luffy could not. Can you take a hint from Oda? Kuma Teleport Moria way out into the Sea.

How do we truly know Kuma uses teleportation while even though it is obvious it's not a 100%…and the Moria part..your still stating as fact even though it is just a vs kinda thing..your just saying that it would happen..not as an opinion..but as a fact...

The truth is you are Making Kuma into an over powered character…you don't have to say it out right to make it look like you are...

Jinbei

@CLERICSHADOW:

I knew this was gonna be a waste of time..but you want prove…ok here you go...

….............Lets take alook.

Kuma>Moria huh? there were ways you could of made it look like your opinion..but you didn't…you stated it as a fact...

I said at this point, if I was doing what you said, then I would have not said at this point, becuase I would be stating my opinion as fact Right?

How do you kno this????? Another one of your opinions stated as if it were a FACT…look it up and see what it means..
Did Kuma not move in an instant…....Read what Nami says.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/473/18/
Im just going off of what was shown at this point.

If you would put your words in a diffrent setting then it wouldn't look like you were doing all this…

So you want me to post IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, everytime I discuss somthing about a charcter, or event, or when some other members would ask me "why I think that?" When its obvious Im stating my opinon on the matter.

No my friend..I knew that I would be wasting my time doing this, because I know that with every fact that I proved that you made you will still disagree with me, thus "talking to a brick wall"….and I don't make mistakes :)

This post tells a diffrent tale.

Another statement you made as a **FACT..**The words "It does matter" just shakes that one..

Are you even reading what me & Onemoment was talking about? the dignity of all the World Powers.

How do we truly know Kuma uses teleportation while even though it is obvious it's not a 100%…and the Moria part..your still stating as fact even though it is just a vs kinda thing..your just saying that it would happen..not as an opinion..but as a fact...

I never said I knew how Kuma uses his power, Im just going off of what was show at this point. You wanna assume Im stating this as fact, well I guess I will keep it mind that I need to type IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, IMO, So that you can understand.

The truth is you are Making Kuma into an over powered character…you don't have to say it out right to make it look like you are...

LOL, you truning a debate about Kuma > Moria at this point, into me making Kuma overpowered? Onemoment asked me way I think that Kuma > Moria at this point, I gave my reasons, Anyone can see that, nothing is Fact unless its in the Comic.

CLERICSHADOW

Which brings it all back to the point of "I'm talking to a brick wall" because even if you didn't put it in the right wording or IMO, you still stated your opinions as facts…

YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERES ONE MORE DAY LEFT UNTIL SPOILERS!!!
raises his hands up to the lord

Jinbei

@CLERICSHADOW:

Which brings it all back to the point of "I'm talking to a brick wall" because even if you didn't put it in the right wording or IMO, you still stated your opinions as facts…

Face palm

Infact nevermind, I guess Im just going to have to put down a BIG IMO, for poster like you, to understand that Im stating my opinion on matters, in a discussion thread, or in a VS thread that will never happen.

CLERICSHADOW

@Jinbei:

Face palm

Infact nevermind, I guess Im just going to have to put down a BIG IMO, for poster like you, to understand that Im stating my opinion on matters, in a discussion thread, or in a VS thread that will never happen.

Thank you!!!! I will just take this as your way of saying, you made a mistake.:)

Ok I had to add that in…man do we go crazy before the new chapters or what...

Jinbei

@CLERICSHADOW:

Thank you!!!! but it seems that I made a mistake.:)

Ok I had to add that in…man do we go crazy before the new chapters or what...

Fixed it for you, When does the Next chapter come out?

Hawkeye

It should already be out in Japan.

Mad_Scientist

@Hawkeye:

It should already be out in Japan.

Spoilers should appear soon, spoilers for the last chapter were posted by BF about one week ago today.

Jinbei

^is that like this forums, undercover agent in Japan that gets the comic?

Greg

@Ivotas:

I guess you´re right. I immedietely interpreted hard as unstretchable without further consideration.^^

Everybody read that and respect da' man.

It's all too often in BBS's that people hold their own opinions too highly and will battle and bicker to the bitter end just because they don't want to say, "You're right." Ivotas fucking rules.

^is that like this forums, undercover agent in Japan that gets the comic?

That'd be me and Saiya at the moment. BF gets it online before it's even available in Japan. Technically we get it the Monday AFTER you guys get it online. I get my JUMP on Saturdays because I live in a small town where they can release it early without getting caught/fined.

I haven't downloaded a scan in ages but given their (comparably) late releases seems to indicate that they come from international releases which also tend to get into buyer's hands early. Back when we USED to get uber-early scans on say Wednesdays, that was when I'm almost certain someone at the printer's was taking snapshots.

MushroomBoy

@Mad_Scientist:

Spoilers should appear soon, spoilers for the last chapter were posted by BF about one week ago today.

@Jinbei:

^is that like this forums, undercover agent in Japan that gets the comic?

….Facepalm

16 good lords.

Jinbei

@Greg:

That'd be me and Saiya at the moment. BF gets it online before it's even available in Japan. Technically we get it the Monday AFTER you guys get it online. I get my JUMP on Saturdays because I live in a small town where they can release it early without getting caught/fined.

I haven't downloaded a scan in ages but given their (comparably) late releases seems to indicate that they come from international releases which also tend to get into buyer's hands early. Back when we USED to get uber-early scans on say Wednesdays, that was when I'm almost certain someone at the printer's was taking snapshots.

Thats cool, but I always wanted to know…....which is better. Reading the actual Comic, or reading it online/downloading it or is it the same? Wow! snapshots at the pinters!? are you serious? AP gots the connects.

Greg

It wasn't someone here that did it. You could ask BF about it but all files were found online from various sources. I think only EGX has actually scanned entire chapters before they were found online in some p2p prog.

Reading it online VS reading the comic is a debate that could rage for years. I prefer comic when I have it available which is why I wait for it. But then there are some people that just want to read it which I understand.

I just like having something in my hand to touch and feel. Makes it a more personal/real experience, but that's just me.

Tsuchirinhon

In terms of Gear 3rd, it wouldn't matter too much how "hard" his arms are. That amount of compressed air crashing into you would still crush you to bits.

The fact that it's surrounded by bone just makes it even more destructive.

CLERICSHADOW

Gear 3 scares me :sad:

I just can't wait for chibi Luffy again :wub:

PS totally off topic by a lonnggg shot! But Greg how is your life in Japan? Your an english teacher right? I know alot of people ask you these questions ALOT! but how do you like living there? Are the people nice? Is it easy to find a job in Japan with a BS degree in Computer Science? I would love to live there one day =)

King Kobra

@CLERICSHADOW:

Gear 3 scares me :sad:

I just can't wait for chibi Luffy again :wub:

PS totally off topic by a lonnggg shot! But Greg how is your life in Japan? Your an english teacher right? I know alot of people ask you these questions ALOT! but how do you like living there? Are the people nice? Is it easy to find a job in Japan with a BS degree in Computer Science? I would love to live there one day =)

You SERIOUSLY need to read the thread where Greg already posted some of his experiences in Japan.

Anyways, Greg, does the 19 in your signature represents the number of days untill you give a ring to your girlfriend? :P


Going back to the topic…..

Would it be possible for Luffy to activate GEAR2 in the middle of Storm? You know, after he propels himself with Balloon, he could pull off a Gear2 to perform a Gomu-Gomu-No-Jet Storm...

CLERICSHADOW

Oh crap I didn't know he had a thread like that..wouldn't really think to search for it also…can you give me a link?

Greg

Anyways, Greg, does the 19 in your signature represents the number of days untill you give a ring to your girlfriend?

It does indeed!

Here's that thread. I partially hi-jacked it but the theme remained the same.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=12701

Impel Down

@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:

Going back to the topic…..

Would it be possible for Luffy to activate GEAR2 in the middle of Storm? You know, after he propels himself with Balloon, he could pull off a Gear2 to perform a Gomu-Gomu-No-Jet Storm...

Why wouldn't he just be in Gear 2nd before he does the storm? That would make more sense, IMO.

But no, I don't think that would be possible, because he has to pause to pump his legs, and seems to need to press them against a solid surface, so if he already did Storm, he'd be in mid-air.

Taz

I should have really loved this chapter: a takedown by teamwork, what more could you ask? But my god was it rushed and sudden and oh look, everyone's suddenly awake and already in the process of putting THE PLAN into action! (re: Robin "We'll explain later." future cue to everyone sitting around a campfire while filling in the details and having a laugh over roasted marshmallows)

But I loved the actual organization and orchestration of Odz' defeat. It was ingenius and everyone was involved, including Nami and Luffy. Maybe after a re-read this chapter will come off as good as it should and less jarring.

Impel Down

We've had lots of team attacks already, but this is the first one where they all work on the same attack, although freezing the legs could be considered a different attack, but it all did lead the way to Luffy spine-breaking attack.

It still seems like they've just given up on his arm now and have just decided to wipe Oz out for good and for real.

Gorlom

They kinda gave up on his arm because it was already busted… How they knew that is anyones guess though =P

CLERICSHADOW

In the end the arm did come in effect…if they didn't put so much damage on his arm he would of used a counter attack against Luffy's Bazooka...even though that would of been bad ass!

smith

I just read the old chapter threads, the one with Luffy vs Lucci, half the people were convince that Lucci would be out cold[ he was white eyed ] after the gear 3rd attack.

Odz has to be out, 2nd backbone the SH break, remember Spandam…or actually Robin has done it sooo damn many times if you think about it.

Greg

2nd backbone the SH break, remember Spandam

Anime-only as I recall.

It's not even a matter of Odz 'has' to be out. He just is. His spine is broken so even though he can be aware and shit, he can't do crap. Just like the arm.

Unless he wants to flop on everyone to death.

Impel Down

I thought they weren't attacking him to break his spine, but the way they had his spine, his body wouldn't absorb damage so he'd be severely hurt when Luffy attacked him. If his spine was broken, though, could he not move because
A) His body would be too damaged to move or
B) because there's no nerves being sent now

Because if he's dead, shouldn't nerve endings and such not even matter?

Greg

I thought they weren't attacking him to break his spine, but the way they had his spine, his body wouldn't absorb damage so he'd be severely hurt when Luffy attacked him.

If they weren't then they were pretty lucky.

We've seen time and again in this arc 'hurting' a zombie is pointless. Right from the getgo a zombie's head was knocked clean off only to be plopped back on by a fellow soldier zombie. If they weren't doing this attack with the purpose of breaking his spine the whole thing seems somewhat futile as Odz would just saw 'Ow' and get back up no matter how much pain they inflicted.

This is also the first time Oda can actually show a spine breaking because after all….you can't kill what's already dead.

Aduross

@Impel:

I thought they weren't attacking him to break his spine, but the way they had his spine, his body wouldn't absorb damage so he'd be severely hurt when Luffy attacked him. If his spine was broken, though, could he not move because
A) His body would be too damaged to move or
B) because there's no nerves being sent now

Because if he's dead, shouldn't nerve endings and such not even matter?

The diagram of Odz's spine breaking in the Chopper's explanatory panels seems to suggest that they fully intended to break his spine.

As for the reasoning, the spine is important for any movement regardless of the spinal chords. With it broken, Odz doesn't have it to support his body anymore. About all he can do now is probably lay on the ground and flail his limbs, if he can even move at all.

Also, it's nice to see Chopper's medical knowledge being used in a fight. I think it's happened in other fights, but they escape me at the moment.