Chapter 1091: Sentomaru
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This chapter is obviously meant to build up tension. I still question Oda's decision to not keep the momentum from before the cutaways, but at least we are regaining speed quickly.
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Sentomaru's defeat would have more weight if he hadn't been one-shotted by Lucci earlier, thought.
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Lucci keeps being the MVP of this arc. People mock him because he's outmatched and outnumbered, but that's exactly what makes his efforts so amusing: the guy has been facing hardship after hardship since the beginning, but keeps gaining ground and giving trouble to the heroes.
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Neither of the two match-ups from this chapter feel like definitive confrontations. Kizaru is not the main villain, Saturn is. And Lucci may be a match for Zoro in overall strength, but doesn't feel "worthy" of a real match-up because he's a reused villain.
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While I can't say for sure yet (maybe within one or two more chapters), I feel we are taking the "arc reset" scenario. If so, the escape attempt will fail catastrophically thanks to Kizaru and Lucci, stranding the crew and forcing it to face the full force of the marines.
What I think we will see over the next chapters is that Luffy/Kizaru and Zoro/Lucci will feel like balanced fights, but the villains' objective is not to defeat their opponents, but to foil their plans.
Kizaru only needs to blow up Vegaforce 1, after all.
And I feel Lucci will use the knowledge he gained during the team-up against the Seraphim. Oda made a suspiciously specific plot point of Zoro having to leave on his own, and Luffy warning Kaku to follow him because he would get lost immediately, leading Kaku to face 2 Seraphim alone. So, what I think Lucci will do is fool Zoro into getting lost, thus gaining freedom to act as he pleases. There's the Seraphim and the agents in the basement that Lucci could free, thus further undermining the Straw Hats' efforts.
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One last note: I find it weird that it was Sanji that trapped Kaku and Zoro who engaged Lucci. Sanji is crafty, but he usually loses his mind when a woman is attacked. I feel it would be way more natural for Usopp to use the bubble gun and for Sanji to attack Lucci, but maybe it was done so because Sanji wouldn't be so easy to fool as Zoro, who Lucci learned a weakness of. Thus, Oda had to give Sanji something to do to justify Zoro being the one to face Lucci.
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Huh, Kizaru is much scarier in the Viz version. The "it would be nice to add old friends to the list" line from Kizaru is gone in Stephen's translation. I wonder if it was there or not in the original?
The sympathetic lines are all gone from this chapter, he just annihilates Sentomaru proclaiming he's superior, and then announces the intention to kill Vegapunk.
Zoro's sass at Lucci is also gone, which I like - Lucci is strong and Zoro being overconfident does not sound like him.
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Am I blind or did Oda forget to draw Robin on the color pages?
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@triangular_maze He has been excluding some crewmates lately. In this one we lack Franky and Robin. In 1086, he excluded Zoro and Jinbe. In 1081, it was Nami and Robin.
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hmm the translation is different but i'll go with TCB until i hear it on the anime if he says nakama or not
The kick was blocked yet some folks keep saying oh he kicked Kizaru!! no he didn't. what's the point of blocking if you can say it that way
I think it's clear that we're not gonna see a full fight since they're preparing to escape which means Kizaru's role is not at its end yet
I don't know how Saturn would get involved, he seems out of reach from the action, i hope he gets involved to make this arc memorable.
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@SirCaesar said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Huh, Kizaru is much scarier in the Viz version. The "it would be nice to add old friends to the list" line from Kizaru is gone in Stephen's translation. I wonder if it was there or not in the original?
That line is present in the French and Spanish version, so I’m kind of confused.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
- Neither of the two match-ups from this chapter feel like definitive confrontations. Kizaru is not the main villain, Saturn is. And Lucci may be a match for Zoro in overall strength, but doesn't feel "worthy" of a real match-up because he's a reused villain.
Wait, you think Saturn is stronger than Kizaru to be considered the main antagonist?
Not saying Saturn is weak, but the Admirals are the strongest military force for a reason and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. I'm personally not that intimidated by Saturn and his peers yet, as they would be better served for actual endgame confrontations and it's not like Luffy will take them all out.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Wait, you think Saturn is stronger than Kizaru to be considered the main antagonist?
No, right now I don't think Saturn is the strongest here. But he doesn't need to be the strongest to be the main villain. My PoV is that the story must move in a direction in which Saturn is confronted at some point, and if the current battle goes Luffy's way the Straw Hats can escape without ever interacting with him. As such, this can't be the final battle.
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I'm not really sure abut Saturn, he'll play a role in the end of course but I don't feel he's set-up to have an active role in the coming battle
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Wait, you think Saturn is stronger than Kizaru to be considered the main antagonist?
No, right now I don't think Saturn is the strongest here. But he doesn't need to be the strongest to be the main villain. My PoV is that the story must move in a direction in which Saturn is confronted at some point, and this battle going Luffy's way mean the Straw Hats can escape without ever interacting with him. As such, this can't be the final battle.
Saturn technically doesn't need to interact with Luffy though. Luffy never met Orochi for example. He would be a bigger presence for people like Robin and Jinbe, who are more attuned to the WG's shenanigans.
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@Kfunk said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
I'm not really sure abut Saturn, he'll play a role in the end of course but I don't feel he's set-up to have an active role in the coming battle
After what happened with Cobra, I sincerely doubt he’ll have Saturn take a step back at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if he stepped in after Kizaru got his ass kicked.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Luffy never met Orochi for example.
But Orochi was confronted by someone. Same with Spandam.
I just don't see the arc going a way in which Saturn just stays in his desk and never acts. If that were to happen, it would be pointless for him to be brought to Egghead in the first place.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Luffy never met Orochi for example.
But Orochi was confronted by someone. Same with Spandam.
I just don't see the arc going a way in which Saturn just stays in his desk and never acts. If that were to happen, it would be pointless for him to be brought to Egghead in the first place.
Yep, Saturn seems determined to get valuables from Egghead, so him sitting around and running away after Kizaru gets defeated would prob be more out of character after he displayed his power.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Luffy never met Orochi for example.
But Orochi was confronted by someone. Same with Spandam.
I just don't see the arc going a way in which Saturn just stays in his desk and never acts. If that were to happen, it would be pointless for him to be brought to Egghead in the first place.
Which, again, does not contradict Luffy vs. Kizaru being for real.
Luffy will fight the strongest guy there. That's Kizaru. As for Saturn, he will likely confront someone, but that does not mean Luffy will have to stop fighting an Admiral.
Like, Luffy vs. Lucci was one of the first fights in Enies Lobby, but it was also the last one to finish.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Luffy vs. Kizaru being for real.
If Kizaru is the strongest here, there will be a "for real" Luffy vs Kizaru at some point. I just don't think that fight has began yet. We are seeing round 1 that will either be interrupted or end in defeat (for Luffy), and then a definitive round 2 later.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Luffy vs. Kizaru being for real.
If Kizaru is the strongest here, there will be a "for real" Luffy vs Kizaru at some point. I just don't think that fight has began yet. We are seeing round 1 that will either be interrupted or end in defeat (for Luffy), and then a definitive round 2 later.
Most of Luffy's fights always have "breaks" in-between the beginning and end (Crocodile, Enel, Doflamingo, Katakuri, Kaidou, etc). It really doesn't matter if it's round one or two, especially in a small island like Egghead.
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In a perfect world, the Scientific Defense Godhead would fight the Greatest Scientist of the World.
But he probably has 50000 times the Dorikis that Vegapunk has while transformed in his Mythical Zoan so it's unfeasible.
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@King-Cannon If there's enough downtime and/or circunstance changes between rounds, it means they are different fights. Luffy fought Crocodile 3 times, Enel 2, Kaido 4. You can't say the "final fight" started with the first clash in any of those.
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I don't think Luffy needs multiple rounds with Borsalino this arc because this would be the 3rd arc he comes across him, and the previous two times didn't go so well for Luffy to say the least. So for those of you who insist Luffy has to lose beforehand, that should do it.
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@Goukan Vegapunk in a big mecha fighting the the Godhead of scientific defense would be hype ngl
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I feel like it's going to be up to whoever was on the Blackbeard ship to really throw things into chaos if that is meant to happen this arc.
Saturn is the only one i'm not sure what to make of.
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I can see some vice admirals and Mark III Pacisfista stumbling upon Luffy and Kizaru, and they'd all try to arrest or defeat Luffy as well, which will be troublesome for him and force him to either retreat/get saved/postpone his match with Kizaru.
Zoro and Lucci is likely to be an isolated affair (like Zoro vs King) so I don't know if other parties can or will make their way there.
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My problem with Luffy being defeated here and then an actual battle with Kizaru later is that I don't know how Oda can really justify the break. There was plausible downtime between before but now that the raid has begun I can't really see a scenario where it gets halted suddenly.
Because if Kizaru beats Luffy or the fight gets interupted, isn't he just going to go straight to the Sunny group? They won't stand a chance so Oda will have to write in someway that Kizaru gets captured or distracted or something. I feel like it's more likely that for the rest of the arc Luffy and Kizaru are just going to be fighting while everything else goes on.
Kind of like how Luffy vs. Lucci was treated, or Luffy vs. Katakuri.
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What I like about the potential Luffy vs Kizaru fight is the mystery of how it'll break down. With how strong Luffy is now, this fight could be anywhere for a loss for Luffy, something more even, or maybe even Luffy comes out on top? We have so many strong rivals for the Strawhats for the future, that Kizaru can stand to lose here and still be a rival later. It really depends on how all the world's top fighter compare to Kaidou. It's implied that a few people are stronger, and who knows if Kizaru was one of those people.
I'm saying this while keeping in mind that Luffy and Zoro did manage to hold their own against Fujitora, even if it's implied that at the time he might have been holding a bit back. Part of this arc will be establishing where a new, powered up Strawhats fit into the New World now.
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Luffy's going to beat Kizaru and convincingly so. The question I have is whether Saturn is going to fall as well and to whom.
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Oh wow, it's happening! And to be completely honest, until Oda started setting up that Borsalino was going straight to where Luffy is in the last chapter, this rematch wasn't something I'd really seen coming or expected. Sure, Borsalino was instrumental in the crew's crushing defeat at Sabaody, but even that was overshadowed in the same saga by Sakazuki's slaying of Ace. In my mind, that put him at the top of the Marines as the boss for Luffy to fight, with the three admirals under him the opponents for Zoro, Sanji and I guess Jinbei. Luffy getting a taster against a single admiral first, like his fight with Blueno before Cipher Pol, or Katakuri before stepping up to the Emperors for real, just hadn't crossed my mind the same way.
Which is crazy in hindsight, because this chapter goes so far out of its way to impress on the reader how much of an impact that loss had on the Strawhats, and how long coming a shot at redemption has been. Even looking back over Marineford, even though it's Sakazuki who strikes the final blow to Luffy's spirit and scars his chest, Borsalino is a much more consistent thorn in the young captain's side as he tries to cross the battlefield, repeatedly kicking him back and sabotaging his efforts with long-range laser shots. Oda must have known even then that he wanted these two to collide again eventually, and he wanted it to be cathartic when they got there.
But that's for later. Starting out we have a beautifully cheesy colour spread. Just last chapter we had Luffy and Bonney talking about getting pizzas for the road as they left the island, so I guess Oda's had a craving lately.
I'm so happy to see as much of the Marine invasion of the island as we do. It's subtle in black and white, but you can see the flash of light from Borsalino's attack on Sentomaru from the end of last chapter illuminating the island from the centre, shadowing the tops of the clouds, signalling the wider attack. The spread of the Weaponised Sea Beasts attacking the fleet is gorgeous and chaotic in every way you could want from a vingette of a battle. The lion best with tubes and cables complementing its mane and the visor showing onomatopoeia for its actions is a standout design in a classic Oda way. We technically did see it already, when the crew first met Lilith in chapter 1062, but I didn't appreciate it enough then.
I don't feel a strong emotional attachment to Borsalino and Sentomaru's fight. It's nice that Sentomaru gets a better chance to show his stuff than the earlier encounter with Lucci allowed. It's interesting to know that a backstory being summarised in an SBS doesn't necessarily exclude it from being shown in the story as well (and maybe the SBS's accidental spoiler on this relationship gives us a hint of how many things Oda holds in his mind at once, insure if he'll get to put them in the story for real or not. But yeah, as sad as it is on paper for Borsalino to have to take out Sentomaru after training him and knowing him since he was a kid, it takes a little more interaction than just affectionately calling him 'old man' to tug at my jaded heartstrings. And speaking of who's emotionally impacted here, it's interesting that only Vegapunk Stella has tears to shed for Sentomaru. Obviously the others would have access to the memories of Sentomaru's upbringing, but I guess the sentimentality didn't come with them.
Gotta agree with Saturn that it's a shame to lose the Weaponised Sea Beasts. And I don't think he and I would agree on much.
There has to be some commentary later on how Lucci ended up uncuffed long enough to pull a move like he does. Even if it's just something dumb like the crew's idiots assumed that fighting side by side meant forging some kind of bond. Well, it's good on Lucci to have been so patient about choosing the moment when his enemies were most distracted to have the best chance of success.
I'm not sure how much of a fight to expect from Lucci and Zoro, but it is technically a loss from back in the day that there was never personal payback for, just like Luffy and Borsalino. Maybe they should've brought Kalifa along too, so Sanji can also show how far he's... what? He hasn't worked on the shortcomings that lost that fight for him at all? Alright, yeah, let's just forget that one.
And with that, the fights are on. The vice admirals are going to be invading the mainland unimpeded, but despite their convenient numbers and likable designs I doubt they're going to make it to the Labophase quick enough to get full, dedicated fights. Maybe a few panels worth of skirmishes while Luffy finishes up with Borsalino and the final preparations to launch are made. Well, however it plays out, just having the significance of Luffy and Borsalino's rematch sink in fully this week has combined with the live action release to give me a burst of One Piece energy! It's a great time to be a fan, break week or not.
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@SirCaesar said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Huh, Kizaru is much scarier in the Viz version. The "it would be nice to add old friends to the list" line from Kizaru is gone in Stephen's translation. I wonder if it was there or not in the original?
The sympathetic lines are all gone from this chapter, he just annihilates Sentomaru proclaiming he's superior, and then announces the intention to kill Vegapunk.
Zoro's sass at Lucci is also gone, which I like - Lucci is strong and Zoro being overconfident does not sound like him.
@Kfunk said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
@SirCaesar said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Huh, Kizaru is much scarier in the Viz version. The "it would be nice to add old friends to the list" line from Kizaru is gone in Stephen's translation. I wonder if it was there or not in the original?
That line is present in the French and Spanish version, so I’m kind of confused.
Yeah, I found that weird too. What are the English translators doing here?
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@Cockycent You mean you're sure the English translator got it wrong and not the French and Spanish? Haha, i wonder...
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The one thing that Kizaru has that Kaidou didn't is a likely awakened Logia, and we haven't seen yet what that entails, so that's a whole new scenario for Luffy to overcome.
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I can't see Luffy losing - Usopp and Kizaru specifically reference their previous defeat so it'll feel all the more cathartic when it's shown the crew (and Luffy leading them) are not the weak, tired sprouts Kizaru terrified two years prior. That being said I don't think Luffy will completely mop the floor, rather stall him enough for everyone to get away with Vegapunk.
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There are more ways to end a fight than total loss or total win. I just expect this fight to not go in Luffy's favor.
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@King-Cannon Haha, watch it just be some transformation like Ener in his final clash with Luffy... Hopefully it will prove to actually be a challenge unlike Lucci's.
Also worth noting that for all intents and purposes, Katakuri was a logia and his awakening was just Like Doflamingo's...
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I'd like to see Saturn getting kidnapped by the strawhats, just to be safe from all battleship/seraphim/pacifista attacks. It would also be good material for many long-eye pictures of people reading those news all over the world.
Sanji/Brook/Robin are capable of doing sneaky stuff.
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I can't possibly know what Oda cares for most in the world.
But I know for a fact what he cares for least in the world, and that was Sentomaru's backstory. -
@Deicide it's gonna be one of 3 general endings:
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Kizaru win (unlikely imo, you don't promote Luffy this much then give him a loss, this is the endgame phase and Oda wants to get to the wrap-up war).
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Fight interruption: Someone else comes in and interferes or does something that makes Luffy and Kizaru abandon fighting.
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Luffy win (extremely likely outcome imo, there will be ebbs and flows in the fight, but Oda having the straw hats recall their defeat in Sabaody isn't a coincidence), mind you, a Luffy win isn't necessarily going to mean they escape to Elbaf as planned, because something the fate of the Punk records (a large, largely immobile object that contains critical knowledge) could swing things into some sort of retreat.
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@Hoops said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
I'd like to see Saturn getting kidnapped by the strawhats, just to be safe from all battleship/seraphim/pacifista attacks. It would also be good material for many long-eye pictures of people reading those news all over the world.
I do think the Straw Hats will formally meet Saturn as a prelude to the rest of them (have they even talked about them as a concept???) but kidnapping is where I'm less sure.
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@danie said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
@King-Cannon Haha, watch it just be some transformation like Ener in his final clash with Luffy... Hopefully it will prove to actually be a challenge unlike Lucci's.
Also worth noting that for all intents and purposes, Katakuri was a logia and his awakening was just Like Doflamingo's...
No, Katakuri is a special Paramecia. That's why he had a Paramecia awakening.
@Alfiere said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
I can't possibly know what Oda cares for most in the world.
But I know for a fact what he cares for least in the world, and that was Sentomaru's backstory.He cares enough for it to not be relegated to SBS hell.
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@Rean Yes, there's 3 general endings, but within each ending there's endless possibilities.
But, first, we need to stop this non-sense that "you don't promote Luffy this much then give him a loss". Yes, Luffy gets an upgrade, so now the challenges he faces also are upgraded.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
But, first, we need to stop this non-sense that "you don't promote Luffy this much then give him a loss". Yes, Luffy gets an upgrade, so now the challenges he faces also are upgraded.
In my opinion, this arc has a very, very clear undercurrent of comparing the fates of the 3 3bil supernovas that came out of Wano (Law and Kid both got destroyed), it makes a lot of sense to have Luffy be the one that survives the post-Wano wringer and gets established to the outside world as a proper Yonko that the marines will start thinking of in the same terms as Kaido/Big Mom/BB/WB.
There's a reason Oda decided to cut away from Egghead and showcase other stories, this is to add context or create parallels to Egghead stories:
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Garp/Koby/Aokiji and their mentor/mentee relationships is contrasted to Kizaru/Sentomaru.
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The Gorosei/Im stuff adds a lot of context and clarifies why they are acting the way they are, and why York and the mother frame is now important.
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Kid/Law getting their skulls kicked in feels like it will be additive to the Luffy fight, as mentioned above, my money is on Luffy winning and being "crowned" as a yonko in a strong and decisive fashion, which is a contrast to how the other two fared.
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Lucci technically needed clearance from the HQ to fight Luffy, they also gathered an unprecedented military force that far outclasses a buster call.
Seems like he's already considered as a proper emperor by the marines to me. -
@Rean There are more than one way to interpret how Kid's and Law's story may or may not foreshadow Luffy's fate.
It's just as easy to say that their defeat (plus Garp's) foreshadow Luffy's own defeat.
Plus, from a storytelling perspective, it makes sense that after the main character getting a big upgrade the author needs to establish how perilous future challenges will be.
There's a lot of room within the "defeat" scenario to make it a possible outcome. This doesn't need to be a new Sabaody. Heck, Luffy doesn't even need to end the arc in defeat, it could be just the result of the first clash, with Luffy bouncing back for round 2 as he usually does.
@Kfunk said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Seems like he's already considered as a proper emperor by the marines to me.
Yes, I see no one taking Luffy lightly. Even Kizaru is taking this seriously.
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The obvious Sabaody parallels prevent any kind of hard defeat for Luffy and the straw hats in general, you gotta show it will never be like 2 years ago.
That said the series still has a few years left before it end, and I remember Oda saying in a interview that making the MCs too strong is bad for the story.
As of now many fans seem to believe Luffy is the strongest character in the verse after defeating Kaido, and will only get challenge against is nemesis or the king of the world.
While I don't see Luffy outright defeated, I see some kind of setback that will show that no matter how strong Luffy is, the road to the final saga won't be any easier.
KIzaru doesn't needs to be outright stronger to give Luffy troube, his abilities differ greatly from Kaido who was mostly a brute that relied on his brute force and tanking abilities.@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
Yes, I see no one taking Luffy lightly. Even Kizaru is taking this seriously.
These last panels is honestly the most intense I ever saw Kizaru lol
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@Kfunk said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
While I don't see Luffy outright defeated, I see some kind of setback that will show that no matter how strong Luffy is, the road to the final saga won't be any easier.
Exactly! That's what I expect as well.
No matter how high on the ladder of power the main character of a story may be, there still needs to have the sense of risk and danger. Sometimes it's fine to have a weak opponent whose defeat is satisfying for reasons other than surpassing him, but that usually means a breather arc like Jaya, Long Ring Long Land, or a small starting segment of a larger arc like the pre-Sabaody Flying Fish Riders.
Considering how confident readers are in Luffy's ability to shrug off one of the Marine's Top 4, I feel reminding everyone that the path won't be easy is even more needed now.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
No matter how high on the ladder of power the main character of a story may be, there still needs to have the sense of risk and danger. Sometimes it's fine to have a weak opponent whose defeat is satisfying for reasons other than surpassing him, but that usually means a breather arc like Jaya, Long Ring Long Land, or a small starting segment of a larger arc like the pre-Sabaody Flying Fish Riders.
I wouldn't call him "weak" but we already got that with Lucci at the beginning of Egghead anyway. Came back awakened and all just to Luffy to beat him quite easily without while showing off his new power. Showed how much Luffyy progressed considering a much weaker Lucci pushed him to its limits back then.
Now Luffy is basically at his highest point, this battle should be when the cracks begin to appear.
I wonder if Luffy turning old while using G5 (happened in the middle of vs Kaido and after vs Lucci) is just a gag or will be an actual drawback -
@Rean said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
- Kid/Law getting their skulls kicked in feels like it will be additive to the Luffy fight, as mentioned above, my money is on Luffy winning and being "crowned" as a yonko in a strong and decisive fashion, which is a contrast to how the other two fared.
This is pointless because Luffy already IS treated as an Emperor, having protocols and everything to confront him.
What Luffy needs to prove is that he can take on an Admiral 1-on-1, so he can at least show he's on Rayleigh's level. This is the bare minimum.
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@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1091: Sentomaru:
What Luffy needs to prove is that he can take on an Admiral 1-on-1, so he can at least show he's on Rayleigh's level. This is the bare minimum.
And this has been what, 16 years in the making now? So much anticipation since Sabaody, and this break has to be the most unfortunate of them all in the history of One Piece and Oda breaks.
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Luffy will beat an Admiral. I just don’t think it will be in this present clash. It’s more likely to happen in Round 2.
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Kizaru is precisely the Admiral that will be satisfying for Luffy to defeat and such a defeat can possibly lead to straight up chaos as the Marines lose such a powerful piece of their power while 4 emperors all actively vie for the One Piece.
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@King-Cannon I'm aware Katakuri is a "special paramecia". But for all intents and purposes, he is a logia! He was even called that initially...
Anyways, like i said, it's just something that is worth noting. I'm not a "consistency" freak. Awakening should just be what ever best expands the ability.