Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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For me, Oda's biggest failure with Usopp is…
Downgrading the chad who got hit with freakin 4 ton bat and not even crying in pain, into a shivering child getting scared of dino headbutts...
Usopp is one of the most durable normal human in OP world! It seems like when he's gained muscle after timeskip, his durability and courageness decreased!
Ulti's headbutt is legit a million times stronger than a 4 ton bat
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Ulti's headbutt is legit a million times stronger than a 4 ton bat
Do remember that Arabasta Usopp was fresh from a backwater village, fighting against a pro assassin. He didnt cry
Meanwhile Wano Usopp is a 200 million bounty pirate that already faced the world's scariest people. He cried
It is a downgrade
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The problem with pop greens are dual:
First, we never got an overlook on which types there are. Think about how we learned the types of dials, so each new use of them felt creative. Pop Greens never had such exposition. Usopp can conveivebly pull out new ones out of nowhere because there was never a limit set.
Second, that a lot of the offensive ones feel like the same old tricks Usopp could pull. Exploding grass is just a explosion. Explosive pines are just… explosives. Fireworks flowers are just... explosives. So they are just like many of the old stars, but supposedly stronger. But we never got to see how strong they are, so when they are used it just feels like the same old stuff.
I'd like to see Usopp's arsenal getting more defined and varied. He should be using Franky's help to enhance his explosives, pop greens for utility, dials to enhance his defense and movement... It would be nice if his capabilities were clearly defined so each new use feels a creative spin on things we already know. Then he learns haki ahead and enhances all his arsenal with it as well.
In regards to (1), that's what I'm disagreeing, because FI and PH were exposition of his arsenal, slowly but surely. Instead of an immediate explanation in Sabaody, Oda used the first two arcs to establish Usopp's abilities in low stakes situations. That was actually a very organic approach, no pun intended.
In regards to (2), I agree. As I've been saying, I only wanted to make one counterargument to one point. Other criticisms I think are totally valid.
In regards to (3), I agree again, but I wouldn't be so optimistic. Oda never did such a great job with Usopp, even pre-TS. Most of the abilities he developed just appeared on the spot, the exception being the Dials, but even then Usopp's use was very direct (fire shots and such). Actually, this is true for any SH since Oda never details their power ups in advance.
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@All:
Two "grin" (にかっ) smileys, huh?
Nika Nika fruit.
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Interesting fact (if it wasn't stated before):
NIKA - NIKA is a Greek word meaning "conquers" (and is not an abbreviation!), referring to Christ's conquest of Hades and His victory over death and sin. NIKA is stamped on the prosphora below the initials Ic Xc which are abbreviations of "Jesus Christ."
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Coincidentally, Robin's family name Nico also shares the Nike/victory root. It's a cool name.
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The Grin Grin fruit. Nika Nika? Smile smile? Is that like it’s abilities or was the name given cause it was associated with Joy Boy and it is still rubber ?
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The one defense I can give to Usopp during dresrosa is that he ran away the instant that the memory of Robin was erased. In the moment it made sense to me that lacking that part of your character growth, and going from “I’m with the strongest and smartest support” to “I’m alone and the crew is too far to help me at all” would cause a shift on priorities, but this was never explored nor expanded, only slightly hinted when he sniped sugar later, that losing luffy’s memory would be bad.
Then now, I dunno, his first reaction is always to be afraid, and then to pull himself together, maybe someday he won’t fall apart as the first reaction when continuing to face even greater danger.
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The one defense I can give to Usopp during dresrosa is that he ran away the instant that the memory of Robin was erased. In the moment it made sense to me that lacking that part of your character growth, and going from “I’m with the strongest and smartest support” to “I’m alone and the crew is too far to help me at all” would cause a shift on priorities, but this was never explored nor expanded, only slightly hinted when he sniped sugar later, that losing luffy’s memory would be bad.
The problems I'm having with this is that it still portrays as a character who only feels confident if soneobe else to hide behind is around. By this point he should have made some growth on that field. Plus the Tontatta tribe was still around and the heroic lonely 10 years battle of the toy soldier was not erased from his mind. But suddenly a character who several times has fought to protect others doesn't feel it's worth in helping people, that partially are eager to fight because they believed his lies. That doesn't add up either.
Then now, I dunno, his first reaction is always to be afraid, and then to pull himself together, maybe someday he wont fall apart as the first reaction when continuing to face even greater danger.
That's exactly the thing, he should be behind the point where he is so afraid that he would abandon everyobe to save his own skin. There's nothing wrong with still feeling a degree of fear when approaching a situation where he can get hurt. But he has not progressed at all on that matter and each situation is a repeat of a previous arc where Usopp has to find his courage. Except for Wano. Here he even developed backwards and now told Nami to lie to Ulti whereas in Arabasta he told Chopper that one shall not let others trample on Luffy's image.
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Yes, Usopp is always developing and then regressing to do the same again, which is disappointing. I guess the reason is that he needs to get to Elbaf still green, since that's where Oda planned Usopp's milestone, but that's bad since the manga got huge and it has been 1000 chapters since Usopp joined the crew. That said, it's worth mentioning that there's a soft development since, in fights, Usopp is always risking his life for new things that perhaps he wouldn't before. In Syrup Village, he fought for his villagers and childhood friends, something very personal. In Arlong Park, Usopp fought to prove to himself he could do it instead of finding excuses, for honor. In Alabasta, Usopp fought to defend Luffy's name, his captain and friend, a more abstract motivation. In Dressrosa, Usopp fought for strangers he had just met, the Tontatta, something more impersonal and heroic.
That's not much though, and definitely not enough.
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If Ussop becomes proper brave, half of his charms will be lost outright. I think Oda intentionally kept the core traits of all SHs same throughout the story to preserve their identities among many battle heavy characters.
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If Ussop becomes proper brave, half of his charms will be lost outright. I think Oda intentionally kept the core traits of all SHs same throughout the story to preserve their identities among many battle heavy characters.
That's true. In a way, Usopp's development goes against our best interests. But Oda could have done better anyway.
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I like Usopp being a fraidy cat. He will stay that way probably up until the epilogue. By then though he will be able to manage his cowardice better. I just want his hits and battle prowess to be more… better.
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Nika Nika fruit.
But that would de-canonize a certain rap.
"Yo-ho-ho, he took a bite of Nika Nika" doesn't have quite the same ring to it -
Is there a place where we can like, hold hands, close our eyes, sing merry songs and fight the temptation of reading the spoilers together?
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I'll pop in just to say, if you are the type who enjoys a chap without spoilers, this is the week to take a breather from social media. Not likely to be a chap quite like this one in some time, if ever again.
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I'll pop in just to say, if you are the type who enjoys a chap without spoilers, this is the week to take a breather from social media. Not likely to be a chap quite like this one in some time, if ever again.
Greg how do you think Kaido loses ? Also will he make comments about Joy Boy or will Oda neglect it ?
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Greg how do you think Kaido loses ? Also will he make comments about Joy Boy or will Oda neglect it ?
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43241&p=4173012&viewfull=1#post4173012
This is not some fancy/sly attempt at a hint or commentary. Simply the only thing I have to say right now. If you're interested in this topic again when I'm back for commenting, I'm happy to discuss it then.
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@Greg,
Without spoiling anything, I would like to ask you if Oda is under pressure to attract new readers in the story ? Are the developments of recent years loosely connected to matching the popularity of new gen shounens like KNY and Jujutsu Kaisen ? -
I'll pop in just to say, if you are the type who enjoys a chap without spoilers, this is the week to take a breather from social media. Not likely to be a chap quite like this one in some time, if ever again.
THIS, I was on instagram and saw multiple pictures of things that happen this chapter, so annoying
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That feeling when you see Greg posting in the spoiler section and you reeeeally want to look but know its better to just wait another few days.
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@greg you've talked about a theory you have that some people like Law and Luffy got a piece of the powers from Rocinante and Ace.Do you think the devil fruit themselves may also keep something from their past users? Like the Mera Mera could make Sabo become more like Ace (if they weren't already similar).I don't know how to properly explain what I mean but I think maybe there's something there in this direction.
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Greg's been in the spoiler threads a bit lately. I wonder how long he's known recent events were coming up and has been waiting on the community's reaction.
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The Zoanster Trio Upcoming!!
Well if any, the revelation about Zoans having will on their own, is pretty much the only one thing that called my attention and mostly in a positive way.
If its related to devil fruits origins, then the implications are huuuge, if its just a 'Sabo had amnesia' level of excuse, than its bs.
But I'm choosing to humbly believe its lore related stuff, so uh, here's what I'm thinking, Oda's creating a Zoanster Trio within the SH's because each of those fruits hold relevance or are somewhat connected to really important places.
Chopper's fruit is from Drum(of liberation) Island, the place where we first heard of The Will of D, was invaded by Teach for Unknown reasons and its bassically the island where the most local df users reside in Paradise.(which I find rare)
Yamato's connected to Wano, tho it seems Kaido found it elsewhere, I dont really have to elaborate how much Wano is connected to the greater mysteries of the series.
And Luffy's would be connected to Laugh Tale/Ancient Kingdom.
At least from memory alone, Drum and Wano seem to have the largest amount of local df's in comparission to most places, and by this, I mean df users that are from there and found their fruits there too.
Because sure, Dressrosa has a ton of df users, but only Violet is from there.
And I think its pretty abnormal for several df's to be at one particular place, just from memory alone(again) Drum had Chopper, Dalton and Wapol, whereas Wano has Tama, the Teapot, Kinemon, Raizou, Shinobu and Onimaru, if I recall correctly everyone else had their fruits from the outside world, or are invaders/occupants.
Seems to me that the fruits wanted to be in those places, rather than just being randomly brought there.
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http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43241&p=4173012&viewfull=1#post4173012
This is not some fancy/sly attempt at a hint or commentary. Simply the only thing I have to say right now. If you're interested in this topic again when I'm back for commenting, I'm happy to discuss it then.
So Greg my question stands once again. How does Kaido reply to this ? Where is his awakening ? How will he react knowing that Luffy is Joy Boy ? Where do we go from here ?
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The Zoanster Trio Upcoming!!
Well if any, the revelation about Zoans having will on their own, is pretty much the only one thing that called my attention and mostly in a positive way.
If its related to devil fruits origins, then the implications are huuuge, if its just a 'Sabo had amnesia' level of excuse, than its bs.
But I'm choosing to humbly believe its lore related stuff, so uh, here's what I'm thinking, Oda's creating a Zoanster Trio within the SH's because each of those fruits hold relevance or are somewhat connected to really important places.
Chopper's fruit is from Drum(of liberation) Island, the place where we first heard of The Will of D, was invaded by Teach for Unknown reasons and its bassically the island where the most local df users reside in Paradise.(which I find rare)
Yamato's connected to Wano, tho it seems Kaido found it elsewhere, I dont really have to elaborate how much Wano is connected to the greater mysteries of the series.
And Luffy's would be connected to Laugh Tale/Ancient Kingdom.
At least from memory alone, Drum and Wano seem to have the largest amount of local df's in comparission to most places, and by this, I mean df users that are from there and found their fruits there too.
Because sure, Dressrosa has a ton of df users, but only Violet is from there.
And I think its pretty abnormal for several df's to be at one particular place, just from memory alone(again) Drum had Chopper, Dalton and Wapol, whereas Wano has Tama, the Teapot, Kinemon, Raizou, Shinobu and Onimaru, if I recall correctly everyone else had their fruits from the outside world, or are invaders/occupants.
Seems to me that the fruits wanted to be in those places, rather than just being randomly brought there.
…plus kanjuro and orochi
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@Joy:
So Greg my question stands once again. How does Kaido reply to this ? Where is his awakening ? How will he react knowing that Luffy is Joy Boy ? Where do we go from here ?
After this chapter, I'm starting to think Kaido's dragon form is his awakening.
Because the Fish Fish fruit evolving into a dragon is the closest parallel we have to the Nika fruit in the manga, and it just so happens that both of them are mythical zoans.
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Destroying the go mu marketing is a weird flex but ok.
Has there anything been planted before this arc that made out the rubber fruit as special? The fact that most power ups (except fire) made sense before this in that power set was nice.
Even kaido ‘s “rubber shouldn’t be able to do that” thing seems like a rationalization, didn’t when snake man first got revealed, the sharp bendable wacky tube man just looks and acts like those rescue snake ballon robot prototypes?
Of course, the video is younger than snake man.
My point being, unless the nika fruit got directly awakened by the rubber fruit, or something jojo like of that Luffy not being actually rubber man but stretching man, with the implication that he can stretch space and time directly, what powerset of the candidate fruits could give Luffy the stretching powers?
The one special thing about the rubber fruit, was that it seemed logia like in nature of its transformation, but with the denial of mochi of all things as a logia, even when katakuri powers were very logia like in nature.
The other thing is, hito hito fruit, model joy/nika, that Luffy is like this not because he’s rubber but because he’s a zoan of a mythical figure.
Just want to ask if I was ahead of the YouTubers and shitty theorists?
With no nightmare Luffy 2.0 and no moriah here I needed a… “win”?
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Greg are you a fan of the twist this chapter had for us?
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This post is deleted!
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Greg's been in the spoiler threads a bit lately. I wonder how long he's known recent events were coming up and has been waiting on the community's reaction.
A little over a month ago I was in a meeting with the central team and the maestro brought up that what would be released in 2-3 weeks would be massive and he's been looking forward to it for a very long time. Mercifully, no specific information was brought up.
How does Kaido reply to this ? Where is his awakening ? How will he react knowing that Luffy is Joy Boy ? Where do we go from here ?
Kaido can really only be pleased by these events judging by his past attitude towards a challenge. Awakening for Kaido has been vague so far and he seemed to pour everything into that final attack on Luffy but while Luffy has an inevitable power-up waiting for him, it seems odd that Kaido didn't pour everything into that punch.
UNLESS
He was enjoying himself so much he actually didn't want to face non-Awakened with Awakened which would differentiate him from Mingo.
How will he react to JB? Depends how much of a challenge Luffy poses. The more the challenge, the happier he'll be.
Where we go from here depends what level of despair we're at.
Is this the first Gear 4 state where he'll dominate but need to recuperate before the true final battle? Or will this carry us through to the end? The only thing that's certain, is Kaido MUST display an even greater threat than he currently does, otherwise it doesn't make for an entertaining/interesting/meaningful final blow.
After this chapter, I'm starting to think Kaido's dragon form is his awakening.
While I wouldn't put a tombstone on that idea, since Momonosuke is basically the same thing as Kaido (visually) unless we're to assume that Momo is also Awakened, I don't think that's the case.
As for the fruit…
I think there's good reason to believe this isn't as black/white as some people walking away from the chap think it is.
Coming out of the chap, I did believe that the fruit has Paramecia qualities alongside Zoan-like qualities have also been unlocked. As time has progressed, I have further reason to believe this is the case.
So it's not just a case of 'It was a Zoan the whole time!'.
If we look at every Paramecia thus far, they've allowed the user to transfer their ability to the surrounding environment and that's exactly what we're seeing here. The Stars didn't have a Machiavellian 'The truuuuuue name of the fruit it…!!!!' just it's 'other name'.
As for why this is possible, I think it will can be explained (though....I'm fine with fewer explanations) quite easily when we find out:
1. That Nika wasn't an actual deity but thought to be one by people that couldn't explain what Nika did.
2. How DF's were made.There are a number of routes that Oda can take which explain this quite well, it's just a matter of whether or not he's intent on taking everyone through the steps.
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…plus kanjuro and orochi
If I recall correctly, both of their fruits were brought to Wano by that scary old hag.
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where's the spoiler of chapter 1045
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where's the spoiler of chapter 1045
There are none and even if there were, this is not the place to ask.
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I hope we get a really good back and forth fight between Luffy and Kaido now, if Luffy stomps him it’s gonna be hard to write a villain that could present a challenge to someone who can easily beat the Worlds strongest monster who you should always bet on for one vs ones
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I hope we get a really good back and forth fight between Luffy and Kaido now, if Luffy stomps him it’s gonna be hard to write a villain that could present a challenge to someone who can easily beat the Worlds strongest monster who you should always bet on for one vs ones
Well, I think Luffy should wreck Kaido now. That is, until Kaido pulls out his own awakening. I don't think Kaido's awakening will be a game changer for him as it is for Luffy but it should still put him in the fight.
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Some have suggested this is a retcon.
Some have complained that this wasn't foreshadowed.Re: Retcon:
It's not a retcon. This was long planned. Depending on the reading experience it may feel like a retcon, but this was not cooked up overnight.
"Oda said he doesn't know how Luffy will beat Kaido."
Oda says a lot of things. I'll leave it at that. I can simply confirm that this wasn't hatched overnight. Not liking/enjoying it are all valid. But it's not a retcon.
Re: Foreshadowing:
This isn't a stance to defend writing, Oda doesn't need anyone to do that for him and I'm not particularly interested in defending OP when it doesn't deserve it. This is simply pointing out blatant themes that were clearly and intentionally put into the series so that this kind of revelation could be considered plausible. If one doesn't like it due to taste, that's valid. But I'm sure you're going to see a slew of 'One Piece jumped the shark!' style of gotcha paper-thin opinion pieces based on emotion, not information.
Was the name 'Nika' thrown around for very long? No.
Does not adding a name to an element the author has broadcasted the importance of since the title of Chapter 1 mean an author did a poor job 'foreshadowing'? I'd say no, but maybe just having a 'name' for something that's been in front of them for 20+ years means something and I can accept that.
While we only recently put a name to the concept, the idea of the sun being a source of great importance has been around as long as the series. Technically even before it started.
・First and foremost, we have Oda coming from the 'Land of the Rising Sun' and he's a generation older than even myself. His association of our own Sun with his cultural identity is strong so seeing the Sun playing a role in this series isn't particularly unique. If you want to compare it to its 'on-time' peers, you'll note that even Naruto and Bleach gave sun powers to important characters. Simply put, if Oda has a chance to expand on the importance of the sun, unless he's positioned himself to create an aesthetically different shonen series that avoids references to actual Japan, you can bet that if presented an opportunity to touch on Japanese culture, the tenets of their cultural identity is going to peak through. All of this is really just to say, given his age, his views, his peers, when he began writing, and the story he's telling, there was a high probability of the Sun being 'powerful' at least and 'important' at most.
・Then there's the title of Chapter 1 and Volume 1: Romance Dawn.
A name so important to the series, it was the name he used for the series when it was proto-One Piece. From the get-go, the series is telegraphing the importance of a new dawn. If you boil One Piece down into MAJOR encompassing themes, that does the job so well it's almost unfair how good they sound sound together. The 'Romance' encourages everything 'shonen' about the series (friendship, effort, victory) along with adventure while 'dawn' tells us that it's a story of a new age. In retrospect, we've come to learn that this concept of a 'dawn' is not only signalling the new age to the readers, but it's also something important to 'in-the-know' characters in the world as well.
・An extension of the previous point, the 'do-n' sound effect Oda is such a fan of, is literally the same way to write the English pronunciation of 'dawn'.
・ https://one-piece.com/special/greg/detail/20160504_0557.html?l=en The tldr is that not only the sun proper, but a strikingly similar depiction of it has been incorporated in the flag of Alabasta (a country which rejected membership in the WG that Imu is obviously pining over) as well as being included in the Kouzuki clan mark. Touching on anything from Wano is still skipping ahead but the important thing is it's there.
・The Thousand Sunny. Judging from all this use of 'sun' imagery, on a personal level outside this story, the sun represents something special to Oda which shouldn't be surprising. It's a source of pride in identity. Another symbol that's important to Oda? The lion. The lion represents a type of regality to him that while I can't go into specifics, is something that he enjoys to express in real life. I believe it's also why we haven't seen a legitimate model: lion DF (ie. Not rando SMILE) in the series yet, because of the importance he assigns to it as a symbol of regal power. The figurehead of Sunny combines both of these elements into one as a lion that also looks like a shining sun. I can all but guarantee that this choice was made knowing what Luffy would Awaken.
・The concept of the 'sun' is a foreign one to the fish and merpeople living below the sea. That's why the 'Sun' in the Sun Pirates is written in Katakana, rather than kanji, because it's an abstract concept. Is it a coincidence that Joy Boy wrote an apology to them after they remain living underneath the waves of the sea but clearly have a desire to bask in the glow of a real sun? The revelation of Joy Boy's existence & failure and the existence of the Sun Pirates alongside Orihime's goal to bring the fish/merpeople to the surface was our first hint that these unrelated concepts would be related.
・https://one-piece.com/special/greg/detail/20180829_0931.html?l=en tldr: now we have Luffy being directly linked to the sun in coyly presented forms. Sunflowers (also very important symbols in Japan), a lion design that oop also looks like a sun, then literal marks of the sun identical to ones on the Alabasta flag and Kozuki clan mark? Not only that, but even in 'throwaway' color spreads from years gone by?!
・Pedro brings up talk of the 'dawn' and we finally learn that characters are aware of the so-called 'dawn' in-universe and are anticipating it.
・The former daimyo clans of Wano (except the Kurozumi) all bear 'moon' in the name and yet the Kouzuki clan mark clearly displays the mark of the sun in their mark. This suggests a strong link between both the Sun and the Moon. Further along, King mentions the importance of Joy Boy to the Lunarians suggesting that Nika is very important to the Lunarians as well.
・Hyogoro called Luffy the 明王 myouou which people have been throwing around as 'wisdom king' thanks to armchair wikipedia scholars, but not many mentioned that the name proper actually directly translates from kanji as 'Lord of Light'.
I'm sure that those re-reading the series now will come across more and more of these observations. These are just a few that I remember off-hand. For instance, will we learn that Mamudein or other characters/events mentioned by Robin were actually related to Nika? Since Nika proper seems to be an original amalgamation of real-world ideas/themes, it stands to reason that cultures from around the OP world would have different ways of interpreting this figure.
And there's very little doubt in my mind that this 'mythical' figure is actually as 'mythical' as it seems.
We know very little and the design is lacking some important features that help it tie together nicely, but one of my ideas is that DF's were made from natural phenomena or people/animals that were the result of Lunarian experimentation. If Nika was a Lunarian (which I don't know about given current lack of wings) who consumed a GGF and then Nika himself was turned into a DF, that could explain how a Paramecia could be merged with a Zoan. That's just spitballing but it's based on the concept that GGF's Paramecia roots have not been rejected but it is also carries Zoan traits, so how do we fit that puzzle together? Lineage factor may be the key there.
Either way, it makes a lot of sense why Oda has been holding off Vegapunk.
I hope that helps express why readers should've been prepped for heavy-duty mythology related to the Sun. I first mentioned the importance of the moon somewhere around 2008-2010 and over the years people seemed to bite into that and get tunnel vision, but the importance of the sun has been here the whole time if you were looking for it!
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Someone else pointed it out and I have to run with it, Luffy is also from East Blue. Where does the sun rise from?
Also, if you believe the strawhat (with red band!) is supposed to look like a sunrise that's a huge one. I'm totally willing to believe but I won't point to that one as fridge brilliance fact until its actually mentioned on-page.
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Ah, yeah, my D = hat =rising sun theory.
I still like it, but since they published it as I wrote it, I wonder… lolThen again...I wrote Nika Nika Fruit and they ran that so... haha
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Was the hat=sunrise you? I don't remember that! First place I remember seeing it was out in the wild.
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Sounds like an everyone thought of it type of theory.
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Yeah that was me. I put it in a column and then it was everywhere. However, I don't know if I elaborated it in the column or put it so straightforward. I think that probably would've been around the time as spirits. However, I'm fairly sure I went into extreme detail on the podcast when I did bring it up.
Same with world party ^o^
Nobody likes to give credit because they're terrified of me getting credit so it becomes like Monquito described where these things are just assumed to be part of the fandom.
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I've read like 20 different people this week saying
-let me share this theory of main, - and then proceed to add -What if Shanks snitched Luffy to the Gorosei.
This is pretty much what I mean, 'strawhat sun' sounds like that type of stuff you cant even track down to who said it first, because ton of people thought of it by themselves.
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But very often you can track down one person saying itpublicly years before other people do. Greg in this case. They may not have heard it from Greg and got it second-hand instead, but there's a looooot of cases when you can see "original theories" that aren't original.
And sure, everyone reading the same story, getting the same clues, people DO get the same ideas sometimes. That happens. But sometimes the "spontaneous co-creation" is years apart.
He does write for a column after all.
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For the moment it seems to me that the Sun aspect of this god are rather metophorical. He delivers slaves and bring joy. He represents a new dawn and creates revolution.
And accessorily he has rubber power.
Some says that the flame aspect of Luffy like the red hawk are due to sun related power. Nika also seems to have flame hairs but Oda has yet to tell us what exactly this sun god consist in.
I don't know, yes all this sun thematic was present. Blue san made a similar post to yours. But did Luffy had to become a sun (which so far is not really a sun) litterally ?As you said how Oda will explain how devil fruits are created will probably explain a lot of things. There is also that new aspect of "zoans have a will of their own"
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There is also that new aspect of "zoans have a will of their own"
Yes and no. We've known that zoan fruits can be put into inanimate objects since Alabasta. WHich gives us a canon that walks, barks, and acts like a dog. Or a sword that turns into an elephant. It just straight up acts like an animal for no apparent reason. But definitely acting on their own aside from what the object would naturally do. This very arc on Wano we got a random teapot crossed with a teapot, almost as if just to remind us that can be a thing.
But we only ever see zoans combined with objects. never something that would actually be useful like fusing an element logia into a gun.
I'm pretty sure Vegapnk was crdited with the fusions. Of course, he's now mimicking Kizaru's lasers on the Pacifistas so who knows?
We also know that supposedly a person can't eat two fruits because "the devils inside will fight each other." Not taken as literal fact but the general ideas have been around for ages.
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For the moment it seems to me that the Sun aspect of this god are rather metophorical.
I think this is what we'll end up seeing.
Ancient People: "Hey! Look at this person!"
person controls fire without getting burned
Ancient People: "They must be a god!"
I'm not saying Luffy or Nika WERE Lunarian. I do think they probably at least have Lunarian lineage factors, but the wing thing is another issue and one would expect Nika to express wing phenotype so I dunno what's going on there, but the whole, "Hey, there's an ancient race that could control elements." Seems a bit close to powers we've seen to be coincidence.
On the other hand! Could be a complete coincidence and maybe that Ace spirit thing is still a factor. In some ways, no more than ever, I feel like my concept of D for 'double' might be close.
Because Luffy, like BB, now has 'double' fruit powers. Still way too early to set my foot down though.
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Yes and no. We've known that zoan fruits can be put into inanimate objects since Alabasta. WHich gives us a canon that walks, barks, and acts like a dog. Or a sword that turns into an elephant. It just straight up acts like an animal for no apparent reason. But definitely acting on their own aside from what the object would naturally do. This very arc on Wano we got a random teapot crossed with a teapot, almost as if just to remind us that can be a thing.
But we only ever see zoans combined with objects. never something that would actually be useful like fusing an element logia into a gun.
I know that, but devil fruit objects have been artificially created by Vegapunk. I imagine he can somehow inject the lineage factor into the object. Also it makes sense that for the object having a conscience, they need the animal part of the zoan.
The fact that the fruit has their own will is new
Funnily, when Usopp met Lasso, he made a comment that devil fruits do not t have a will of their own :-)
@Greg:I think this is what we'll end up seeing.
Ancient People: "Hey! Look at this person!"
person controls fire without getting burned
Ancient People: "They must be a god!"
I'm not saying Luffy or Nika WERE Lunarian. I do think they probably at least have Lunarian lineage factors, but the wing thing is another issue and one would expect Nika to express wing phenotype so I dunno what's going on there, but the whole, "Hey, there's an ancient race that could control elements." Seems a bit close to powers we've seen to be coincidence.
On the other hand! Could be a complete coincidence and maybe that Ace spirit thing is still a factor. In some ways, no more than ever, I feel like my concept of D for 'double' might be close.
Because Luffy, like BB, now has 'double' fruit powers. Still way too early to set my foot down though.
Yes, currently it is a bit confusing on what made Nika a mythical god. Was it his fruit who made him a god which then made the fruit a mythical Zoan ?
When I said to Robby that Luffy's awaken form was missing the Lunarians traits from King, he told me that Luffy had wings on a cover.
Maybe this is what bother me in this revelation. You said that this is not a retcon so I will believe you since you have more knowledge than me. But then can you tell Oda I'm not reading the Torah trying to find meaning under every panels background :-)
That Luffy has wings on a cover or a sunflower pattern on his clothes, honestly I really don't care. The truth is that Who's Who is the first to have named Nika, a god which nobody knows anymore beside a handful of prisoners and the Five Elders. It is that the hint from those five elders about the true name of the fruit are even more recent. I'm not asking for a Laboon all the time but when it is something so important and if it was prepared long ago, then the job was not done very well. -
Well, you have to take into consideration that for this reveal to be a total surprise, Oda had to "invent" Nika so people reading the manga would not catch up on early about Luffy's true nature. If it would've been a well known deity, there would've been a lot of speculation much earlier about Luffy having Mythical Zoan.