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Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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Myself and Robby have addressed this in the past.
In fact, iirc I think Robby even made visuals for it.
The explanation is, it's a clever use of perspective. Yes, we see a sliver of ocean, but that sliver could be miles and miles away from the previous establishing shot.
Essentially, the further you are, that sliver of ocean, if viewed from a low close-up perspective, would realistically make an extraordinarily tall object look 'close' to the surface. It's exactly the kind of stunt Oda would pull to make something look one way, but actually be another, safely guarding the truth in plain sight all these years.
That still makes very little sense and is horrible abuse of perspective. It's an ocean, it's generally flat and waves aren't gonna go so high as to obscure the view that much, and I'm saying that as someone who's frequently out in open water. It'd have to be so ridiculously far it'd be well beyond the curve of the horizon with a random faraway POV that's not TB, and I don't get the impression the florian triangle is that widespread. Alternatively a high tidal wave just happens to be in between, or the elephant is taking a little dunk at the moment. I don't like any of those lol.
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That still makes very little sense and is horrible abuse of perspective.
One angle it the camera from a helicopter shot on the bottom looking up, one angle is the camera straight on or slightly underneath the water. The two panels aren't in the same perspective. And if that is in fact and elephant's back in the first panel, then the second panel has zoomed 180 degrees around and is showing it from a different shot entirely in order to display the eyes on the front..
It'd have to be so ridiculously far it'd be well beyond the curve of the horizon with a random faraway POV that's not TB, and I don't get the impression the florian triangle is that widespread. Alternatively a high tidal wave just happens to be in between, or the elephant is taking a little dunk at the moment. I don't like any of those lol.
The elephant is larger than an island. It can be really distant and still be huge. And be seen from below.
Oda is tilting the camera in ways you wouldn't see while ON a boat, you'd have to go underneath to get that angle, or see it from the air, but its completely fair perspective. Even something completely flat like my shelf will obscure things if you move the camera down. Once you add in waves that are varied and not flat it lets you get all sorts of optical illusions.
The caveat to all this is of course the anime added red glowing eyes to the top of the "legs" so who knows. But the overall position and the same mist effect sells me on it.
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The world is round, so of course things can get obscured beyond the horizon. Robby and Greg are right.
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Fel, you came on a little strong there. It's cool, we're cool, this isn't Twitter, we're all friends here.
No one would dare shed suspicion on your experience at sea, but I don't think it's that common to view a 21 mile-high object in the middle of the ocean. Mount Everest itself is only just under five and a half miles high.Other than Robby's example (itself scaled down due to room size) I cannot provide any better example than this:
I'm not saying this is what is on display without question and anyone who says different is a heretic. Just, I strongly believe Oda was trying to pull one over on fans and that's how he did it.
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Or, to use actual islands with some distance instead of my shelf from a foot away…
Camera angle matters. Especially when you have something the size of a mountain in the distance. Your perspective from a boat where you're always at the same height isn't going to be the same as a camera going a mile up or below, because your general horizon line isn't going to change much compared to the vastness of the ocean.
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Do you guys think one of Zoro's swords might get a devil fruit at some point? Or is that a silly idea
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Do you guys think one of Zoro's swords might get a devil fruit at some point? Or is that a silly idea
Well…..there was that one SBS about a What If? with one of Zoro's swords eating Kaido's DF...
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@Johnny:
Well…..there was that one SBS about a What If? with one of Zoro's swords eating Kaido's DF...
LOL that's what made me think of it
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Do you guys think one of Zoro's swords might get a devil fruit at some point? Or is that a silly idea
Most likely it isn't something that would happen. Zoro's able to generate dragon and other type auras with his existing swords lol plus they have their own soul, so Oda can probably do most things within those parameters
He would also become way overpowered if he had on top devil fruit powers to call upon. -
Shiebs, regarding the height thing.
The purpose of that at the time was to show us a bit of growth for the crew in addition to having some fun with Luffy's powers.The line (which as I recall is from a shipwright) is a throwaway regarding rumors he heard about Luffy. This is to show us that 'rumors' actually travel about the crew at this point. They're not well known yet (as advertised by the technically incorrect info) but they are starting to make a name for themselves. This is a huge contrast from the start of the series where Luffy would state his name and nobody would know/care.
Secondly, this info is technically correct. The funny thing about the rumor is, it isn't meant to be blatantly wrong, as if lies were traveling around about the crew. Luffy has been meters tall thanks to his fruit. The secondhand (more like 3rd or 4th) info they're getting is likely sourced back to someone who saw Luffy being huge due to his abilities and didn't know better. In addition to this, I'd bet Oda even accounted for the 'Telephone Game' nature of rumors and added a bit for flavor.
So, could Luffy become that tall? Sure! But more importantly, be it just his hands or his feet, or arm or whatever, Luffy has already well exceeded even such a length, so it was already true :)
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Oda's favorite 3 moments teased it.
So resin is immune to whatever Imu is capable of? The natural enemy. Imu doing Enel face?
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Greg, do you think Luffy actually died in this chapter? Given Momo and Law's comments?
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Well, the chapter's out. Now to eagerly await Greg's thoughts on just what the hell is happening.
I'm personally seeing some visual connections here between Luffy and Zunesha. Especially in the eyes.
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Maybe the plot elephant is dead and re-animated too?
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Hi Greg, just wanted to check Oda hasn’t completely forgotten about Denjiro right?!
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I see what you're going for Scabbard. Personally? I think that's drawing too many conclusions at this stage.
Even assuming the GGF isn't what it says it is, I don't think Oda was teasing anything there. He just genuinely liked that slice of life.
But I suppose the main reason I'm suspicious is because I didn't put so much stock in Kaido's line. That line could be interpreted as someone confounded by Luffy's abilities as a supposedly rubber Paramecia (another slie of life) or he could have been that and foreshadowing. Depending how one takes it plays into whether one thinks the DF is something physically different than rubber or the fruit is capable of doing more than it seems because of rubbery properties.
With the info we have, I believe that the fruit is indeed the GGF as usual, but what it makes possible is the reason for its other name, not that it is a physically different power.
Luffy's greatest ability has always been to create allies, and I have little doubt his personality and fruit are what make that possible.
Did he die? I think he manga died. Which is to say, sure, maybe he was clinically dead for a moment, but people have come back from that even in real life. Just as he 'manga died' did he 'manga revive' (ie. His will is so strong he wouldn't die) Sure. That could easily be the case. I do wonder though, if the fruit could Enel him back to life. Cuz Enel technically died too but his fruit brought him back. This suggests a level of sentience in the fruits and I dunno if Oda intends to go that route, but it would follow the reasoning for why multiple fruits don't usually fly.
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So, Greg, after this chapter, do you have any more idea on what the fruit's actual name is, in addition to Nika Nika, Jiyuu Jiyuu, and Joy Joy?
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Nothing in this chap gave me any particular new ideas or gave me any reason to discard my previous suggestions.
For me, the most interesting part is that Kaido seemed unaffected after hitting CP-0. He's compounding that emotion so when it releases it won't be pretty, and I don't necessarily mean only violent.
Everything else is pretty much as expected. We knew the arc wasn't at its crescendo yet so this seems like the perfect opportunity for Team Momotarou to unite.
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Appreciate the reply, Greg.
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Nothing in this chap gave me any particular new ideas or gave me any reason to discard my previous suggestions.
For me, the most interesting part is that Kaido seemed unaffected after hitting CP-0. He's compounding that emotion so when it releases it won't be pretty, and I don't necessarily mean only violent.
Everything else is pretty much as expected. We knew the arc wasn't at its crescendo yet so this seems like the perfect opportunity for Team Momotarou to unite.
I noticed it's at least seeping out a little bit in how he's talking to the alliance, but yea, he's definitely holding back on his rage.
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It's nostalgic seeing all the resin theories going around. Reminds me of when Gear 2nd hit and everyone said at once, "He vulcanized himself!"
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Shiebs, regarding the height thing.
The purpose of that at the time was to show us a bit of growth for the crew in addition to having some fun with Luffy's powers.The line (which as I recall is from a shipwright) is a throwaway regarding rumors he heard about Luffy. This is to show us that 'rumors' actually travel about the crew at this point. They're not well known yet (as advertised by the technically incorrect info) but they are starting to make a name for themselves. This is a huge contrast from the start of the series where Luffy would state his name and nobody would know/care.
Secondly, this info is technically correct. The funny thing about the rumor is, it isn't meant to be blatantly wrong, as if lies were traveling around about the crew. Luffy has been meters tall thanks to his fruit. The secondhand (more like 3rd or 4th) info they're getting is likely sourced back to someone who saw Luffy being huge due to his abilities and didn't know better. In addition to this, I'd bet Oda even accounted for the 'Telephone Game' nature of rumors and added a bit for flavor.
So, could Luffy become that tall? Sure! But more importantly, be it just his hands or his feet, or arm or whatever, Luffy has already well exceeded even such a length, so it was already true :)
Thanks for the response Greg!
Damn I thought I had caught some subtle foreshadowing clue there that went under everyone's radar
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It's nostalgic seeing all the resin theories going around. Reminds me of when Gear 2nd hit and everyone said at once, "He vulcanized himself!"
Ditto. Or when Luffy used black hardening in Sabaody after the timeskip and this time everyone was sure that it must be vulcanized rubber!
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It's nostalgic seeing all the resin theories going around. Reminds me of when Gear 2nd hit and everyone said at once, "He vulcanized himself!"
Hey! Don't lump me in with those plebs. I theorized Luffy has eaten a Jet Dial and I still think that this is what actually happened but Oda changed it only to spite me.
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Ditto. Or when Luffy used black hardening in Sabaody after the timeskip and this time everyone was sure that it must be vulcanized rubber!
It's not the reader's fault Oda retconned a major feature of the world during the timeskip. Haki effects had been invisible up to that point and that was the first time it got a visual so its really, REALLY easy to see why people would need an explanation for this brand new never before seen ability…
that apparently dozens of characters had been doing before then. But for some reason some of the Warlords and the "super elite mega assassin" Lucchi couldn't do.
I'm still not happy that the CP9 forms were just retconned into haki. Couldn't they have at least stayed a branch path or something?
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It used to be the hottest cool kids only thing to do. I hate how immediately after Enies Lobby finished, we're seeing marines do super cool rokushiki moves. Makes it less special to cipher pol and any SHs who learn any of it. Yeah CP is still more specialized in it, but meh.
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It's not the reader's fault Oda retconned a major feature of the world during the timeskip. Haki effects had been invisible up to that point and that was the first time it got a visual so its really, REALLY easy to see why people would need an explanation for this brand new never before seen ability…
that apparently dozens of characters had been doing before then. But for some reason some of the Warlords and the "super elite mega assassin" Lucchi couldn't do.
I'm still not happy that the CP9 forms were just retconned into haki. Couldn't they have at least stayed a branch path or something?
Sure, I think it's important not to look down on there being ideas. Those are always welcome. But the double-down dog-piling on theories that have been stolen and repackaged again and again as 'unique' brings back memories.
The number of people who've privately approached me with, "Do you think it's resin?!" in the past week has been staggering.
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Well that's just what you get for being popular.
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Ditto. Or when Luffy used black hardening in Sabaody after the timeskip and this time everyone was sure that it must be vulcanized rubber!
"Hardening" likterally means vulcanization. You'll also notice 0-non Luffy people use it as "koka".
I theorise it started out like that, and then One Piece Film Z happened. Somewhere in the planning the idea to broaden it to everyone came up. That's when we start seeing haki turn balck with Vergo, etc.
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Nothing in this chap gave me any particular new ideas or gave me any reason to discard my previous suggestions.
For me, the most interesting part is that Kaido seemed unaffected after hitting CP-0. He's compounding that emotion so when it releases it won't be pretty, and I don't necessarily mean only violent.
Everything else is pretty much as expected. We knew the arc wasn't at its crescendo yet so this seems like the perfect opportunity for Team Momotarou to unite.
Alcoholism can really mess up how you process anger.
When we finally see the source of Kaido's drinking problems things should get very interesting.
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To be frank, I imagined a Kaido flashback would start once he hit Luffy. That face he did…
Just like, before, I expected a Kaido flashback when Yamato confronted him.
I'm not that sure anymore if we will get more than a few panels, or pages at most, about his past at this point.
BUT, considering that this fight is likely to finish within ~12 chapters (end of Volume 104), maybe there's time for one or two of those exclusively for Kaido...
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Greg, do you think there's any connection between Luffy becoming JoyBoy after dying in an epic fight and Kaido chasing an epic death for himself?
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But If it's some legendary fruit that makes gorosei pee their pants, WG even had to change the name, then how would things Like resin even fit.
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There's something that's been bugging me for a while, and it's more a "Japan" question rather than a One Piece one, but since it is particularly relevant after the last chapter i'll ask now:
What's the deal with long-running shonen series often gravitating some way or another towards the reveal of the MC as a sort of Messianic figure, as in their coming prophetized, their destiny to save humanity by great evils or calamities, and them being secretely lineage of kings/heroes/gods? It strikes me as odd expecially in series that are heavily "east and Japan" themed, esthetically, like Naruto and even One Piece, as it's an unmistakably christian narrative, and one that is at odds witht the very roughly summarized buddhist principle of "each one for his own", with buddhas being more paragons of virtue than redeemers or saviours of humanity.
The question is: is it an aspect that particularly stuck with the japanese collective subconcious throughout their … troubled history with christianity, or it's just an handy trope to keep the hype alive around the MC when the story has come a long way and the cast has grown exponentially?
And that begs another question: does it work? Is the general japanese pubblic enticed by this kind of development?Hope i'm not venturing into some sensitive ground, i'm just genuinely curious if there could be some cultural background about this.
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@uniaka:
But If it's some legendary fruit that makes gorosei pee their pants, WG even had to change the name, then how would things Like resin even fit.
This part is a head scratcher. It's not rubber, it's a symonym for rubber…is not the best argument when that can be covered for with an extension of its orignal powers unless the fruit's power itself is not a concern but something else.
Unless, as I noted before, it's not so much Devil Fruit powers awakening than it is the Devil Fruit itself awakening. How could this apply to Luffy...well Luffy is a fruit. That's it. = That's the theory. Luffy's mom doesn't exist because Dragon ate the Fruit Fruit fruit and reproduced asexually. Luffy is dead. So his devil inhabited his body. This is the only logical explanation since awakening is "affecting things other than the user". The only one. ;)
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There's something that's been bugging me for a while, and it's more a "Japan" question rather than a One Piece one, but since it is particularly relevant after the last chapter i'll ask now:
What's the deal with long-running shonen series often gravitating some way or another towards the reveal of the MC as a sort of Messianic figure, as in their coming prophetized, their destiny to save humanity by great evils or calamities, and them being secretely lineage of kings/heroes/gods? It strikes me as odd expecially in series that are heavily "east and Japan" themed, esthetically, like Naruto and even One Piece, as it's an unmistakably christian narrative, and one that is at odds witht the very roughly summarized buddhist principle of "each one for his own", with buddhas being more paragons of virtue than redeemers or saviours of humanity.
The question is: is it an aspect that particularly stuck with the japanese collective subconcious throughout their … troubled history with christianity, or it's just an handy trope to keep the hype alive around the MC when the story has come a long way and the cast has grown exponentially?
And that begs another question: does it work? Is the general japanese pubblic enticed by this kind of development?Hope i'm not venturing into some sensitive ground, i'm just genuinely curious if there could be some cultural background about this.
I think that's just an universal trope in fantasy. Even stuff like Star Wars can't escape it.
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And culturally there's a lot of connection between aristocracy and deity figures in both east's history and mythos.
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I think that's just an universal trope in fantasy. Even stuff like Star Wars can't escape it.
It's the oldest trope in all literature.
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I think that's just an universal trope in fantasy. Even stuff like Star Wars can't escape it.
Yes, sure. But like every trope, it's not born in a vacuum, it has cultural roots.
And when you think about it, the original star wars trilogy, which was heavily influenced by eastern culture, had no messianic figure or prophecies. Those came around (and where partially subverted) with the prequels.
@theackwardstation:It's the oldest trope in all literature.
Not really, i'd say for example the flood (like in noah's myth in the bible) is more ancient and omnipresent (it's in gilgamesh' saga and in some ancient chinese tale too if i'm not mistaken).
That i know, the messiah foretold by prophecies is something that comes from middle-eastern religions, and through that became pervasive in medieval literature.But I didn't want to start a philological debate really, i was just curious if these themes are particularly popular in japan or, as i said, it's nothing more than an handy trope to spotlight the protagonist in the endgame.
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In contemporary pop-culture at least, I see the trope mostly as a shortcut on the writers behalf. A tool to make things simpler to write.
Why is this thing happening now? It was destined to.
Why are these characters acting this highly specific way? Because they believe in a Prophecy
How can [seemingly disperate elements/cultures/groups/whatever] fit together? They all have strong belief in a Chosen One or are tied to him in some way
How can the hero [resolve plot, beat the villain, whatever]? Because he's the chosen one.If you want to handle a plot with a lot of elements (or not even that), prophecies and chosens ones are a nice bit of writing glue
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And culturally there's a lot of connection between aristocracy and deity figures in both east's history and mythos.
Sure, but i'm not talking about someone being special because of magic grandad, it's the Saviour/Redeemer figure specifically that is at odds with my understanding (extremely limited) of eastern ethics.
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Yes, sure. But like every trope, it's not born in a vacuum, it has cultural roots.
And when you think about it, the original star wars trilogy, which was heavily influenced by eastern culture, had no messianic figure or prophecies. Those came around (and where partially subverted) with the prequels.That's the prequels putting 'names' on it, but since the original trilogy George Lucas was inspired by Joseph Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces, which is his thesis that many Heroes from different mythological cultures (all god-like) followed the same pattern of story… so Campbell thought that was an universal archetype, like how Carl Jung describes archetypes. So that's Star Wars' roots. Not surprisingly, "the force was strong" in Luke Skywalker.
Not really, i'd say for example the flood (like in noah's myth in the bible) is more ancient and omnipresent (it's in gilgamesh' saga and in some ancient chinese tale too if i'm not mistaken).
That i know, the messiah foretold by prophecies is something that comes from middle-eastern religions, and through that became pervasive in medieval literature.Actually, I believe the first 'flood myth' we know of is The Epic of Gilgamesh – which happens to also be the first Hero/Chosen One story we know of. It's one of the oldest texts that we still have.
The Bible's flood was written later, I believe. And, btw, Noah is guided by God, which is another kind of chosen one.
But I didn't want to start a philological debate really, i was just curious if these themes are particularly popular in japan or, as i said, it's nothing more than an handy trope to spotlight the protagonist in the endgame.
Yes, I understand, I have the same curiosity too.
The little I can add to the conversation is that a lot of japanese culture is syncretism from myths and religious texts coming from the asian continent. This includes not only Buddhism itself, but some Hinduism (which also influenced Buddhism) and other chinese/east asian stuff. So I guess a lot of archetypes got to Japan.
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There's something that's been bugging me for a while, and it's more a "Japan" question rather than a One Piece one, but since it is particularly relevant after the last chapter i'll ask now:
What's the deal with long-running shonen series often gravitating some way or another towards the reveal of the MC as a sort of Messianic figure, as in their coming prophetized, their destiny to save humanity by great evils or calamities, and them being secretely lineage of kings/heroes/gods? It strikes me as odd expecially in series that are heavily "east and Japan" themed, esthetically, like Naruto and even One Piece, as it's an unmistakably christian narrative, and one that is at odds witht the very roughly summarized buddhist principle of "each one for his own", with buddhas being more paragons of virtue than redeemers or saviours of humanity.
The question is: is it an aspect that particularly stuck with the japanese collective subconcious throughout their … troubled history with christianity, or it's just an handy trope to keep the hype alive around the MC when the story has come a long way and the cast has grown exponentially?
And that begs another question: does it work? Is the general japanese pubblic enticed by this kind of development?Hope i'm not venturing into some sensitive ground, i'm just genuinely curious if there could be some cultural background about this.
I'm pretty sure its just a reincarnation and good karma idea. Its the general idea of past lives like Avatar the last airbender which was trying to have a eastern feel and the idea that someone so impressive must have been incredible in unsespecting ways people couldnt realized (previous lives) to be so incredible.
Reincarnation has been a eastern concept for a long time that isnt attach to christianity and doesnt need the twisting into a christian invention. And really just generally my kid that succeeded was always always great even if others didnt see it is not a hard train of thought to have.
Jesus is a chosen one. But he's not the only template for it. King Arthur, Harry Potter… Yes you can twist them into fitting jesus but they really werent design to be jesus. And most the shonen heroes arent either. The message of the past life is vindication and pride from the audience that they were great even if others couldnt see it. Not so much they are here for the world's sin.
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I honestly don't care what the power up is, what the name of the Fruit is. I just don't want to lose our boy. I don't want to lose the core of who Luffy is. I want Joy Boy to be a title, not some spirit.
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Someone on Reddit theorizes that D might stand for Drum.
I just love that there are so many different potentialities for what it might mean and like that another one has been added. Dream, Destiny, Double, Devil, Dawn, Dead, Desire (my guess), and now Drum. It's a lot of fun. My question for Greg is whether you've seen anyone theorize that it stands for Drum in your many years as a fan?
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Someone on Reddit theorizes that D might stand for Drum.
I just love that there are so many different potentialities for what it might mean and like that another one has been added. Dream, Destiny, Double, Devil, Dawn, Dead, Desire (my guess), and now Drum. It's a lot of fun. My question for Greg is whether you've seen anyone theorize that it stands for Drum in your many years as a fan?
Love it!
I've seen a pretty interesting theory recently that the One Piece is a gong – in the same vibe as Skypiea's golden bell. The theory also mentions the possibility of the treasure being drums, but he dismisses it (don't know why, it works for me too).
In general, I like these theories that make the treasure something ludic and festive, like and or musical instruments. It also feels whole with the story.
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Someone on Reddit theorizes that D might stand for Drum.
I just love that there are so many different potentialities for what it might mean and like that another one has been added. Dream, Destiny, Double, Devil, Dawn, Dead, Desire (my guess), and now Drum. It's a lot of fun. My question for Greg is whether you've seen anyone theorize that it stands for Drum in your many years as a fan?
I heard that as well. The Will Of Drums, really doesn't sound that ridiculous. And something that I thought of that made me go, "interesting" is that the first time we hear about the concept of "The Will Of D" is on Drum Island. So, Oda could have been big brained about it, right from the start.
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I love the idea of it being drum. Original and fitting.
Before I leaned towards it being Devil (clichéd, but would match their troublemaker status and Devil Fruits) or a smile (would be cool if it was a symbol and not a letter), but I like drums better. I neutral too. Devil, Death etc. gives the feeling the D are evil, or that they didn't chose the name themselves. But drum gives the impression they can instil emotions in people. Whether that's the big parties Luffy likes to throw or Dragon encouraging people to rebel.
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The message of the past life is vindication and pride from the audience that they were great even if others couldnt see it. Not so much they are here for the world's sin.
Ok, i'm kind of sold on this. Maybe I went straight for the messiah, when the ugly duckling was nearer at hand.