Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)
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Again, age doesn't matter.
Kaidou was still an apprentice even at adulthood. That alone proves apprentices can be of any age.
First, we don't know the full story. Kaido may have started as an apprentice, but we don't know his status near the end of the Rocks journey.
Second, if we take that quote from Cat and Dog, "in generational terms, Oden [let's ignore translation issues and assume it talks about Oden and not Cat and Dog, which make more sense] was more like a kid or apprentice" assigns the "apprentice title" to younger people. Kaido was a generational younger than the rest of Rocks Pirates. Yamato, on the other hand, is a generation older than Luffy and most of the SH crew.
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Nightgrinder and Cookie are correct about the translation:
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https://i.imgur.com/nrqVXji.jpg[/HIDE]Well, yeah it's the viz translation right ? So, they didn't even bother correcting I see…
Anyway, every other translation I saw do not even mention Oden in that bubble, wether it's other English translations, French or Spanish. Even in the anime I can't hear "Oden" at this moment.Quick google search and, it seems like during the Oden flashback this chapter has been brought up and speculated among the fandom.
I mean, if someone could find the raw and look if Oden is written. That'd put an end to this. I searched and couldn't find the Japanese version.
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Wanted to just step back for a moment and acknowledge that at least for some, it's starting to seem less about the actual speculating of who or who might not become a crewmate, and more about what info is even worth speculating on in the first place, because people seem to be running in a circle of a dead end after dead end of being like "Not valid, not valid, not valid, not valid" and so on. From here on out, in speaking for myself, I'm just going to worry less about trying to get inside of Oda's head of what's objectively correct and objectively wrong, and focus more on entertaining the possibilities and potential for who could become a crewmate and how, with some in-story examples, but also with an excitement and amusement to it, even if it doesn't turn out to be objectively correct in the end, because running into a dead end every time isn't fun, and I'm sure others would agree.
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The newly concept of the apprentice who is a decade older than half the crew, captain included. Said crew being mostly composed of in-story rookies with one year of experience as pirates at best. Yeah that works.:ninja:
about the chapter 820 thing.
https://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/42383
cnet128 who is not any less reliable translated it as "we were young at the time - in similar generation to apprentices such as Shanks and Buggy" Which makes much more sense as they actually are from the same generation (Only one year of difference between the dukes and Shanks & Buggy)!
On top of that Oden was literally the second division commander of Whitebeard. Hardly apprentice position.
@Nilitch:I mean, if someone could find the raw and look if Oden is written. That'd put an end to this. I searched and couldn't find the Japanese version.
I have it
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I have it
Thanks, doesn't seem to be mentioned to me. I mean it's not, lol
Kozuki Oden 光月おでんedit: I hate to do this though, the whole translation and wording stuff
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Don't you love it when fans with rudimentary understanding of the Japanese language think they know better than the official translator because there are some translations out there which they prefer or think fits better?
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You're literally making up rules and attributing them to Oda.
Stop being disingenuous. There's no rule saying apprentices aren't a thing in the present.
Kaidou also didn't need to be apprentice either. He could have just been a regular captain like Big Mom and Whitebeard. Same for Marco, yet Oda went the length to make them past apprentices in this very arc. Both characters have existed for a long time before, but it's only recently that they were revealed to have held this specific position.
Now ask yourself why Oda just recently came up with the idea of making Marco and Kaidou apprentices and not just regular pirates. Because that detail was not really important to establish links. We know Kaidou was part of Rocks and that Marco was with Whitebeard since 30 years ago, but was them being apprentices necessary? For what reason?
Why the hell can't people understand basic facts. I never said it was a rule. Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm stating what Oda has never done. If it's a rule, then he made it. Not me. I never said an apprentice can only exist in the past. Oda has never had the apprentice role exist outside of the past. Me pointing that out isn't me making up a rule.
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What makes you think that Kaido "didn't need" to be apprentice on Xebec's ship ? Maybe he wasn't strong enough, who knows.
Strenght simply has nothing to do with it.
Most logical answer to me is that Kaido was not a pirate back in the day, or had just started being one when he met with Rocks, thus making it an apprentice.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Why the hell can't people understand basic facts. I never said it was a rule. Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm stating what Oda has never done. If it's a rule, then he made it. Not me. I never said an apprentice can only exist in the past. Oda has never had the apprentice role exist outside of the past. Me pointing that out isn't me making up a rule.
Oda never gave Lookout position oficially to no one, based on that logic of yours, he cant do it now.
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The most certain thing you can bet on all patterns and foreshadowing aside, we've never had two members occupy the same role in the crew. Either it's Apprentice which seemed to be heavily centralized by Oda between Zou and Wano, or Zoro finally becomes First Mate and Yamato slides into Combatant. But I don't know.
Like Robby and Zik have said, sometimes it's all about clout with Oda and Luffy waltzing into The Red Hairs Camp with a crew that includes a Yonko's overpowered bastard child turned Strawhat Pirate apprentice just seems like too juicy for Oda to pass up with all the epic one liners and jokes that could be had with that set up. Just like Jinbe being the former Warlord who's only steering the family vacation volkswagen.
We have to also consider that Yamato is supposed to be in the vein of Marco, Kaido, Shanks and hell even Blackbeard, they were apart of the previous generation but not necessarily calling the shots or making the waves if you will, they either followed Zebec, Roger or Newgate as Apprentices. But each in their own way become a catalyst to the new era and I think that's a role Yamato might play later down the line for let's say, Makino's baby if there's ever a Two Piece.
"The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"
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Yeah, in the end, Oda can do whatever he wants if he thinks it would be cool enough.
Having Kaido's child as his apprentice would give Luffy extreme boss points. It's no less nonsense than Franky the cola cyborg or snake brachiosaurus, but people would just go with it because of the sheer awesomeness and absurdity.
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Nightgrinder and Cookie are correct about the translation:
[HIDE]
https://i.imgur.com/nrqVXji.jpg[/HIDE]The obvious parallels just don't stop when it comes to Yamato.
Especially when you look at him and he is a literal mix of Kaido and Oden.
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Another pointless add on by Oda I might add to that, just like with Kaido, Oda had no reason to differentiate at this point either. Could have easily used the "Rookie" term here but why is apprentice used if that's a direct translation? Both his biological father and his idol started their pirate careers this way.
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The most certain thing you can bet on all patterns and foreshadowing aside, we've never had two members occupy the same role in the crew. Either it's Apprentice which seemed to be heavily centralized by Oda between Zou and Wano, or Zoro finally becomes First Mate and Yamato slides into Combatant. But I don't know.
Yamato has been called things including captain, soldier, and guardian, so strength at least might key into a possible role.
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Strenght simply has nothing to do with it.
And this is where this conversation should have ended pages ago. Agree to disagree.
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The newly concept of the apprentice who is a decade older than half the crew, captain included. Said crew being mostly composed of in-story rookies with one year of experience as pirates at best. Yeah that works.:ninja:
about the chapter 820 thing.
https://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/42383
cnet128 who is not any less reliable translated it as "we were young at the time - in similar generation to apprentices such as Shanks and Buggy" Which makes much more sense as they actually are from the same generation (Only one year of difference between the dukes and Shanks & Buggy)!
On top of that Oden was literally the second division commander of Whitebeard. Hardly apprentice position.I have it
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Thank you, this has been bothering me ever since the Oden flashback, great to finally having it making some sense.
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Well, yeah it's the viz translation right ? So, they didn't even bother correcting I see…
Anyway, every other translation I saw do not even mention Oden in that bubble, wether it's other English translations, French or Spanish. Even in the anime I can't hear "Oden" at this moment.Quick google search and, it seems like during the Oden flashback this chapter has been brought up and speculated among the fandom.
I mean, if someone could find the raw and look if Oden is written. That'd put an end to this. I searched and couldn't find the Japanese version.
Viz added Oden's name in the volume release for context, in the weekly release it was just "he":
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Viz added Oden's name in the volume release for context, in the weekly release it was just "he":
[HIDE]https://i.imgur.com/IgWXA0j.jpg?1[/HIDE]That moment when the existence of a pronoun written 4years ago changes the whole theory about Yamato's role in the crew :ninja:
More seriously, we'll have to wait and see for someone fluent in Japanese to show up because every other translations say "we" (Neko+Inu) and not "he" (Oden).
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Don't you love it when fans with rudimentary understanding of the Japanese language think they know better than the official translator because there are some translations out there which they prefer or think fits better?
Well, Stephen isn't the only official translator around. the french official one too translated it as Neko and Inu talking about themselves, aka "we".
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When you look at the effort Oda is putting into Yamato, one does have to question why. The amount of focus and gravity he has attached to Yamato is absurdly immense. Not only is Oda focusing on Yamato during the same chapters he has Luffy, Zoro and Sanji focused on but right now, he is saving Yamato's climax to take place AFTER Zoro and Sanji take out King and Queen respectively. More than likely, Yamato's climax will come before the focus shifts to Luffy defeating Kaido. The very treatment of Yamato screams an impression Oda seeks to convey.
Narratively, Oda's direction for Yamato seems clear. Yamato may not have been the shining figure highlighted to everyone present in the arc but he has been the shadow that has shifted the flow of the war through his actions and presence. Regardless of how unknown he is to the Samurai Rebellion now, he was there all along. Yamato's actions will come to light and in that moment the realisation of what Yamato has done will dawn on everyone, just as the Sun rises for the New Wano Kuni. Yamato is part of the new generation about to define the coming age and will feature prominently going forward beyond the Wano Arc (cue Ace grave visit).
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When you look at the effort Oda is putting into Yamato, one does have to question why. The amount of focus and gravity he has attached to Yamato is absurdly immense. Not only is Oda focusing on Yamato during the same chapters he has Luffy, Zoro and Sanji focused on but right now, he is saving Yamato's climax to take place AFTER Zoro and Sanji take out King and Queen respectively. More than likely, Yamato's climax will come before the focus shifts to Luffy defeating Kaido. The very treatment of Yamato screams an impression Oda seeks to convey.
Narratively, Oda's direction for Yamato seems clear. Yamato may not have been the shining figure highlighted to everyone present in the arc but he has been the shadow that has shifted the flow of the war through his actions and presence. Regardless of how unknown he is to the Samurai Rebellion now, he was there all along. Yamato's actions will come to light and in that moment the realisation of what Yamato has done will dawn on everyone, just as the Sun rises for the New Wano Kuni. Yamato is part of the new generation about to define the coming age and will feature prominently going forward beyond the Wano Arc (cue Ace grave visit).
Yamato has arguably gotten more focus than Bartolomeo, and he became a leading figure in Luffy's Grand Fleet. She has even become one of the more frequently appearing characters in the Wano Country Arc in terms of panel count despite supposedly appearing too late.
1. Monkey D. Luffy - 1280
2. Roronoa Zoro - 832
3. Kaido - 672
4. Kin'emon - 617
5. Sanji - 537
6. Kozuki Momonosuke - 462
7. O-Kiku - 454
8. Kozuki Oden - 450
9. Nami - 404
10. Queen - 397
11. Charlotte Linlin - 380
12. Kawamatsu - 378
13. O-Tama - 352
14. Yamato - 343
15. Trafalgar D. Water Law - 325
16. Nico Robin - 302
17. Raizo - 296
18. Usopp - 284
19. Denjiro - 284
20. Franky - 282https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/r7uea9/the_top_50_characters_in_wano_as_of_chapter_1034/
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Well, Stephen isn't the only official translator around. the french official one too translated it as Neko and Inu talking about themselves, aka "we".
I don't understand how "nous" excludes Oden when they were just talking about him. To be clear, my issue isn't whether or not Oden is included while talking about generations and apprentices. My issue after the toxic part of the MHA fanbase drove CCC off of Twitter is other people having the gall to look down on professional translators and acting like they know better when they barely speak the language.
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I don't understand how "nous" excludes Oden when they were just talking about him. To be clear, my issue isn't whether or not Oden is included while talking about generations and apprentices. My issue after the toxic part of the MHA fanbase drove CCC off of Twitter is other people having the gall to look down on professional translators and acting like they know better when they barely speak the language.
It is perfectly fine to critique or find errors at someones else's work, especially as a consumer of said work.
Don't really see how toxic haters on twitter is relevant in this case…
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Yamato has arguably gotten more focus than Bartolomeo, and he became a leading figure in Luffy's Grand Fleet. She has even become one of the more frequently appearing characters in the Wano Country Arc in terms of panel count despite supposedly appearing too late.
1. Monkey D. Luffy - 1280
2. Roronoa Zoro - 832
3. Kaido - 672
4. Kin'emon - 617
5. Sanji - 537
6. Kozuki Momonosuke - 462
7. O-Kiku - 454
8. Kozuki Oden - 450
9. Nami - 404
10. Queen - 397
11. Charlotte Linlin - 380
12. Kawamatsu - 378
13. O-Tama - 352
14. Yamato - 343
15. Trafalgar D. Water Law - 325
16. Nico Robin - 302
17. Raizo - 296
18. Usopp - 284
19. Denjiro - 284
20. Franky - 282https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/r7uea9/the_top_50_characters_in_wano_as_of_chapter_1034/
Has someone attempted a panel count starting from chapter 974, the beginning of the Onigashima portion, yet?
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I think it's just the issue that it's hard to compare unofficial and official translations when you get a portion of the fanbase who will die by the unofficial translation, seemingly out of spite against the official. When it gets to that level of toxic, like it did in MHA, it can make it hard to take anyone seriously when they just disregard the official one outright. I think that's what Cookie is referring to.
In regards to this I think 'we' is probably the better translation but I also think Inu and Neko are also referring to Oden when they say that. They are saying that all 3 of them were new to the ship, just like Shanks and Buggy. I don't think age has anything to do with it. If I remember right, Oden doesn't join whitebeard as the 2nd division commander, it's something he eventually earns after travelling with Whitebeard for a bit. There's also the possibility that he was an apprentice on Roger's ship but not Whitebeards. It's not like it's impossible for him to go back down the pirate career ladder lol
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I don't understand how "nous" excludes Oden when they were just talking about him. To be clear, my issue isn't whether or not Oden is included while talking about generations and apprentices. My issue after the toxic part of the MHA fanbase drove CCC off of Twitter is other people having the gall to look down on professional translators and acting like they know better when they barely speak the language.
"Nous" indeed does not, but in that translation Neko talks about "being roughly the same age as Shanks and Buggy when they were pirate apprentices" which makes sense with the dukes, but not really with Oden. Or maybe in the OP world a 10 yo kid and a grown ass 30 yo man are considered to be in same ballpark age wise. Guess Tama's age isn't actually a problem then.
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It is perfectly fine to critique or find errors at someones else's work, especially as a consumer of said work.
Don't really see how toxic haters on twitter is relevant in this case…Oh definitely, but how you express critique or point out flaws in someone else's work is pretty important too.
Arrogantly shitting all over it isn't helping anyone."Nous" indeed does not, but in that translation Neko talks about "being roughly the same age as Shanks and Buggy when they were pirate apprentices" which makes sense with the dukes, but not really with Oden. Or maybe in the OP world a 10 yo kid and a grown ass 30 yo man are considered to be in same ballpark age wise. Guess Tama's age isn't actually a problem then.
The original Japanese talks about expressing it in generations and someone being similar to apprentices Shanks and Buggy, though it doesn't explicitly use "age" but "youngster"/"greenhorn" (若僧).
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wtf, "Oden" was just not written there. As for the pronoun thing, I've said that we should wait for a Japanese speaker to enlighten us.
And to be fair with the other translators, it sounds more like "Viz vs the rest of the world". But whatever I guess.
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wtf, "Oden" was just not written there. As for the pronoun thing, I've said that we should wait for a Japanese speaker to enlighten us.
Because that's how many languages work, especially Japanese. The subject or main topic (there's a difference in Japanese) of several sentences gets omitted to avoid repetition. But even in other languages it still holds true that sentences can be about a certain person without explicitly mentioning their name, usually by using pronouns instead, sometimes just from context. And Japanese is extra notorious for avoiding pronouns and needing context.
Simple example:
An Bord der Moby Dick hat Roger Oden rekrutiert und wir sind ihm natürlich gefolgt. In Generationen ausgedrückt war er eher ein Neuling wie Shanks und Buggy.
If you know absolutely nothing about German and blindly look for "Oden" in the last sentence, you'd be inclined to think that it's not about him since his name doesn't appear.
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I don't get it. No one had mention any pronoun when you wrote your first comment, it was just "Oden".
So you speak Japanese but you don't wanna enlighten us ? Or you just have some basics in linguistic or Japanese ? Or maybe you're saying that there is a "we" and we should do some exegesis on the text to figure out stuff ? I'm really lost.Anyway guys, all this is fun. But Oden during the flashback wasn't at any moment considered to be an apprentice on whatever crew. I think the flashback is a more tangible source than the interpretation of a pronoun in chapter 820. But again, that's just my opinion and I'm not trying to jeopardize the job of paid translators…
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I'm fairly certain that Neko and Inu are the only ones who would be considered apprentices on the Oro Jackson, considering how young they were at the time. Oden was sought out and recruited by Roger to decipher the poneglyphs for him, unless people are trying to associate that role to apprenticeship, which would make no sense.
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EDIT: Basically, Oden's role in the story is why currently Robin is so significant. Some of you may need to be reminded of Neko's warning to her on Zou and we're seeing that play out now.
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Yamato is joining. No doubts.
But people don't find it a weak reason for her to join… Because she wants to be Oden? All the time I see parallels to Oden.
Oden was his own character. Roger and Oden even traveled back to the GL and stuff.
So if she joins... Why you think she will.play the Oden role if we are ready at the end of the story
I really hope Luffy says to her to shut the fuck about Oden and be her own persona.
With this she will play her role in the crew and not the Oden role
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Yamato is joining. No doubts.
But people don't find it a weak reason for her to join… Because she wants to be Oden? All the time I see parallels to Oden.
Oden was his own character. Roger and Oden even traveled back to the GL and stuff.
So if she joins... Why you think she will.play the Oden role if we are ready at the end of the story
I really hope Luffy says to her to shut the fuck about Oden and be her own persona.
With this she will play her role in the crew and not the Oden role
Assuming that Yamato really is meant to be a parallel to Oden, then maybe Yamato's post-Wano goal could involve somehow preparing the rest of the world for when Joy Boy comes back, in light of Oden mentioning Joy Boy's return and Kaidou mentioning that Luffy couldn't be Joy Boy either.
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I think it's just the issue that it's hard to compare unofficial and official translations when you get a portion of the fanbase who will die by the unofficial translation, seemingly out of spite against the official. When it gets to that level of toxic, like it did in MHA, it can make it hard to take anyone seriously when they just disregard the official one outright. I think that's what Cookie is referring to.
In regards to this I think 'we' is probably the better translation but I also think Inu and Neko are also referring to Oden when they say that. They are saying that all 3 of them were new to the ship, just like Shanks and Buggy. I don't think age has anything to do with it. If I remember right, Oden doesn't join whitebeard as the 2nd division commander, it's something he eventually earns after travelling with Whitebeard for a bit. There's also the possibility that he was an apprentice on Roger's ship but not Whitebeards. It's not like it's impossible for him to go back down the pirate career ladder lol
Man those people are so frustratingly stupid. I cringe every time I see a correction made by these people that is just plain wrong. I can't understand how you have live being that arrogant with so few braincells… actually hurts.
Just saw one on the latest chapter and oh boy...Also flatout from what I've seen the unofficial is regularly ridden with mistakes I can't fathom how people hail that as their bible.
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I think it's just the issue that it's hard to compare unofficial and official translations when you get a portion of the fanbase who will die by the unofficial translation, seemingly out of spite against the official. When it gets to that level of toxic, like it did in MHA, it can make it hard to take anyone seriously when they just disregard the official one outright. I think that's what Cookie is referring to.
Not necessarily out of spite, but yes it's hard and unfair to compare different translations when you have no idea about the original source material. It's like judging different cooks and claiming that some are closer to the original recipe when you have no idea what that recipe was to begin with.
In regards to this I think 'we' is probably the better translation but I also think Inu and Neko are also referring to Oden when they say that. They are saying that all 3 of them were new to the ship, just like Shanks and Buggy. I don't think age has anything to do with it. If I remember right, Oden doesn't join whitebeard as the 2nd division commander, it's something he eventually earns after travelling with Whitebeard for a bit. There's also the possibility that he was an apprentice on Roger's ship but not Whitebeards. It's not like it's impossible for him to go back down the pirate career ladder lol
Well, yes and no. I also think that "in generational terms" is the crux of this part and doesn't refer to age. Stephen doesn't say that Oden was an apprentice like Shanks and Buggy, he's "like a kid or apprentice" which could mean multiple things. I've been trying to figure out what exactly makes the most sense but my brain is starting to twist and turn so I'll stop there for now.
I don't get it. No one had mention any pronoun when you wrote your first comment, it was just "Oden".
My issue isn't use or absence of pronouns explicitly, my issue is "Only Viz uses 'Oden' there, no one else does so they must be wrong". To recapitulate:
The official translation is "In generational terms, Lord Oden was more of a kid or apprentice back then, like Shanks and Buggy."
You respond! @Nilitch:
! > Inuarashi is just making a comparison, "in generational terms" he says. But Yamato is older than Luffy. Also, this translation there completely contradicts the story where Oden was commander of the second fleet of the WhiteBeard pirates and then becomes an apprentice on the OroJackson…That's funny because Inu and Neko were the actual apprentices.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just checked and Oden isn't even mentioned there. There has probably been a correction. Inu is making a reference about himself and Neko, not Oden.
You argue that "in generational terms" refers to age and that this translation contradicts Oden already being commander of Whitebeard's second division only to become an apprentice on the Oro Jackson. You continue that the section in question doesn't even mention Oden by name so it must have been a mistake left to be corrected, concluding that Inuarashi is talking about only Nekomamushi and himself.You continue
! @Nilitch:
! > Well, yeah it's the viz translation right ? So, they didn't even bother correcting I see…
Anyway, every other translation I saw do not even mention Oden in that bubble, wether it's other English translations, French or Spanish. Even in the anime I can't hear "Oden" at this moment.Quick google search and, it seems like during the Oden flashback this chapter has been brought up and speculated among the fandom.
I mean, if someone could find the raw and look if Oden is written. That'd put an end to this. I searched and couldn't find the Japanese version.
The gist I get is "only Viz explicitly mentions Oden, no other translation nor the anime calls him by name so Viz must have made a mistake". This is where my last argument with the pronouns and context comes in: You don't need to use someone's name to be talking about them. Now, I haven't seen the French or Spanish versions and I don't know how much of those languages you understand, so I can't gauge if Oden is being referred to by pronouns in those languages, explaining the lack of his name.So you speak Japanese but you don't wanna enlighten us ? Or you just have some basics in linguistic or Japanese ? Or maybe you're saying that there is a "we" and we should do some exegesis on the text to figure out stuff ? I'm really lost.
I took a few courses at the university, so my understanding is rather basic. But what I can tell you is that in that specific speech bubble there is no indication of who exactly is being compared to Shanks and Buggy. And that's the issue at heart: Japanese relies a lot on context, something that doesn't work in all languages. So at some point the translators have to take some personal liberties in how they interpret what's being said and how to convey it.
You're right in that Oden isn't being mentioned at that point and there are no pronouns indicating if it's Oden or Inuarashi/Nekomamushi we're talking about. It is entirely possible that Stephen made a mistake and it should've been only the latter. But the lack of "光月おでん" in either the manga or the anime isn't proof that Stephen's line is wrong. -
Regardless of this argument of pronouns, I am fairly certain Oden wasn't an apprentice on the Oro Jackson since it was his active responsibility to translate the poneglyphs, including the Road Poneglyphs, for the Roger Pirates which helped them get to Laugh Tale. It's the specific reason Roger begged Whitebeard for Oden.
Now you guys can resume fighting if being an apprentice is a legitimate role for a character that's stronger than a majority of the cast, capable of stalling one of the Emperors of the Sea for an extended period of time where most of the cast failed because the role simply existed.
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On the "generation" discussion, I seem to recall that Blackbeard, despite having served as an active pirate under Whitebeard for roughly 30 years, is counted as part of the Worst Generation by some people, because he really only became relevant within the past 2-ish years from the public's perspective.
Which "generation" you belong to isn't necessarily about when you were born in this case, it's about when you began making a name for yourself. In that sense, I think Oden being counted as a "rookie" or "apprentice" alongside Inu and Neko makes sense despite his vastly greater personal strength, particularly in the early days. Strong as he was, he was a "newbie" on the crew.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
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On the "generation" discussion, I seem to recall that Blackbeard, despite having served as an active pirate under Whitebeard for roughly 30 years, is counted as part of the Worst Generation by some people, because he really only became relevant within the past 2-ish years from the public's perspective.
Which "generation" you belong to isn't necessarily about when you were born in this case, it's about when you began making a name for yourself. In that sense, I think Oden being counted as a "rookie" or "apprentice" alongside Inu and Neko makes sense despite his vastly greater personal strength, particularly in the early days. Strong as he was, he was a "newbie" on the crew.
You are right, but I also think you are contradicting yourself since Oden did start making a name for himself under WB and then later under Roger, while you could not say the same for Inu and Neko.
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Yamato is joining. No doubts.
But people don't find it a weak reason for her to join… Because she wants to be Oden? All the time I see parallels to Oden.
Oden was his own character. Roger and Oden even traveled back to the GL and stuff.
So if she joins... Why you think she will.play the Oden role if we are ready at the end of the story
I really hope Luffy says to her to shut the fuck about Oden and be her own persona.
With this she will play her role in the crew and not the Oden role
Given how much Luffy admires Oden and now likes Yamato that's doubtful.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Regardless of this argument of pronouns, I am fairly certain Oden wasn't an apprentice on the Oro Jackson since it was his active responsibility to translate the poneglyphs, including the Road Poneglyphs, for the Roger Pirates which helped them get to Laugh Tale.
Yeah, he was just like an apprentice or a kid, in generational terms.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You are right, but I also think you are contradicting yourself since Oden did start making a name for himself under WB and then later under Roger, while you could not say the same for Inu and Neko.
I think the difference in that isile the difference between Ace making a name for himself before Luffy or Luffy making a name for himself before the rest of the crew except for Robin and Zoro. Especially since Neko and Inu followed Oden to Roger's crew.
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Now you guys can resume fighting if being an apprentice is a legitimate role for a character that's stronger than a majority of the cast, capable of stalling one of the Emperors of the Sea for an extended period of time where most of the cast failed because the role simply existed.
Like many have discussed, that's arguably the appeal.
How many doctors exist that are reindeers?
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The only apprentice "tasks" we have seen really seen is Shanks, Buggy, BB, Marco and Jozu taking night guard.
Meaning the tasks are rather simple, I'd imagine getting taught by the other crew members like how Law was could be another task.
Can't really see any of these fitting for Yamato. -
You are right, but I also think you are contradicting yourself since Oden did start making a name for himself under WB and then later under Roger, while you could not say the same for Inu and Neko.
Am I? I did specifically say "particularly in the early days" for a reason…
Regardless, the underlying point remains that Oden's career as a "pirate" started at the same time as Inu and Neko (and implicitly around the same time Shanks and Buggy joined up with Roger). He rapidly outpaced them, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they all joined Whitebeard at the same time. If that's what they're basing his "generation" on, then it checks out to my mind.
Personally, I think it's a moot point that people are digging way too much into, but whatever.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
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Am I? I did specifically say "particularly in the early days" for a reason…
Regardless, the underlying point remains that Oden's career as a "pirate" started at the same time as Inu and Neko. He rapidly outpaced them, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they all joined Whitebeard at the same time.
Personally, I think it's a moot point that people are digging way too much into, but whatever.
Given how long Blackbeard was a active pirate under WB, and Law being a pirate since he he was a kid, I don't think when they started out matters in the generational term, but rather who really broke out of the norm and became notorious during the same period is what is counted.
And I don't think either Inu or Neko became famous and notorious during their time at WBs or Rogers. -
Given how long Blackbeard was a active pirate under WB, and Law being a pirate since he he was a kid, I don't think when they started out matters in the generational term, but rather who really broke out of the norm and became notorious during the same period is what is counted.
And I don't think either Inu or Neko became famous and notorious during their time at WBs or Rogers.Teach was deliberately keeping his head down, and there are different degrees of notoriety.
Just because Oden went full Supernova on them doesn't mean Inu and Neko didn't rack up a decent starter bounty of their own. Do we kick Urouge out of the Worst Generation just because Luffy's bounty is almost 15 times higher than his at the moment?
More to the point, the bounty aspect is the public facing side of things. Within the crew itself, I'd think "when they joined" would be the more relevant factor in determining their "generation" with respect to their peers.
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Stay on topic.
Things that Oda never done before and supposedly cant do it now, is so much on topic.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
(cue Ace grave visit).
This is such a high possibility right now, if said island is somewhere around Wano, as some of us suspect it to be, what better chance does Luffy has to come for a visit?, plus, what better chance to reunite with Shanks would he have later, especially considering he will already be a 'Great Pirate' after wano, fullfiling his promise to reunite with redhair at said point in the story, aaaand, it only makes so much sense for Luffy to make a promise to himself in front ot Ace´s grave that he will not allow the same happen to Sabo.
And of course, needless to say.. Yamato's presence is just so much logical there, they made a promise to reunite and drink sake once again, and coincidentally Sabo already left a cup right there:ninja:
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This is such a high possibility right now, if said island is somewhere around Wano, as some of us suspect it to be, what better chance does Luffy has to come for a visit?, plus, what better chance to reunite with Shanks would he have later, especially considering he will already be a 'Great Pirate' after wano, fullfiling his promise to reunite with redhair at said point in the story, aaaand, it only makes so much sense for Luffy to make a promise to himself in front ot Ace´s grave that he will not allow the same happen to Sabo.
And of course, needless to say.. Yamato's presence is just so much logical there, they made a promise to reunite and drink sake once again, and coincidentally Sabo already left a cup right there:ninja:
So much this. Marco knows where the grave is and could easily take them. I'm sure Yamato would want to see it (and Tama tbf). It could also be a great opportunity for Luffy and Garp to reunite (visiting Ace's grave together and maybe getting an update on Dragon and Sabo from Garp) and seeing as its also connected to Whitebeard it could be a good arc to deal with Weevil. It doesn't need to be long at all and could make a great breather arc before Elbaf or the Vegapunk arcs kick off.
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If Yamato were to join, the specific role could be related to keeping logs, being a guard dog (this one's pretty lame if I do say so myself)… If I were to give Oden a special role in Roger's ship, it'd be that of the translator. In Whitebeard's, he eventually became the leader of a division. The latter doesn't fit with this Straw Hat crew, the former is already occupied by Robin, even if Yamato knew how to read Poneglyphs. So it's really a question of what Oda is willing to do with the character. Apprentice always had a hierarchical connotation that I don't believe Luffy would allow on his own crew. But this is all personal interpretation and opinions, I guess.
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If Yamato were to join, the specific role could be related to keeping logs, being a guard dog (this one's pretty lame if I do say so myself).
Well, I wouldn't oversimplify any back-up/guard/protector role to guard dog of course, but as I posted about before, after all I've seen, the idea of Yamato dedicating herself to supporting the rest of her potential crew by doing things like using her body to shield others at the risk of getting many bruises sounds pretty astonishing, yet also kind of exciting and heartwarming at the same time, among other examples:
