@'T€:
@$;4162132']Yamato role is either Sake Brewer or VivreCard maker. Anything else would feel forced.
I'm sure people can still understand Yamato taking on a guard role for the Straw Hats, while still being allowed to explore if I didn't make that clear enough already, based on what has happened in the story itself so far.
Yamato’s role will be “Straw Hats Rockstar” :ninja:
I think both Kaido and Marco were made apprentices due to age.
Kaido is 59, significantly younger than other Rocks Pirates like Linlin (68) or Whitebeard (would-be 74 now). During Rocks' fall, he would be 21, but we don't know for how long Rocks endured, he could have joined their crew very young, so Oda may have made him an apprentice to justify his presence there.
Marco was already a Whitebeard Pirate at age 15 and may have joined much younger. Again, Oda may have deemed that too young to be a full-fledged pirate, so he was made an apprentice.All other apprentices so far have been children or younger teens, and they are not usually (if ever) among the strongest of their crew. Marco had his DF as an apprentice, but that doesn't automatically make him strong back then. Kaido was stated to be much stronger now than back then, and he only got his DF in the day Rocks fell.
Yamato, on the other hand, already has 28 years, older than most of the crew, and is strong enough to go one-on-one with an Emperor. Making him an apprentice would feel really weird.
Why does the strength of the apprentice matter at all?
Especially when we're talking pirate apprentice. That's the focus.
Yes pirates fight and the most powerful are the strongest but strength isn't the main requirement and being too strong isn't a detriment.
Its not like piracy is the martial arts and you're giving ultra instinct Goku a white belt to start.
I'm not sure what's so weird about it. That's only the case if you only associate pirate apprentice with being weak and young.
@Zik:
Why does the strength of the apprentice matter at all?
Especially when we're talking pirate apprentice. That's the focus.
Yes pirates fight and the most powerful are the strongest but strength isn't the main requirement and being too strong isn't a detriment.
Its not like piracy is the martial arts and you're giving ultra instinct Goku a white belt to start.
I'm not sure what's so weird about it. That's only the case if you only associate pirate apprentice with being weak and young.
If you get on a ship and you can outperform 90% of the crew in battle, you are not an apprentice, you are a pirate.
As I said before the apprentice thing will hinge on if Oda finds a reason to give us an epilogue scene some years after showcasing Yamato with his own crew carrying the spirit of the strawhat pirates with him. Right now I don't really see the need for something like that but that could change quickly depending on what Oda does.
That said from a design standpoint again I don't think Yamato has really been created in a way to have such a scene carry strong impact.
We all know the trope we've seen it in other manga and it's just a fact that children characters are just so insanely more effective to showcase the passing to a new generation/inheriting the legacy because they have the visual advantage.
Also I feel like there would be some redundancy in such a flash forward given that I think Tama regardless of not joining now would still be a prime character to fulfill that role more effectively. Just in my mind in a flash forward an aged up Tama sailing we see her being more of a Kunoichi would just carry more emotional impact imo than seeing Yams in captain garb commanding some background characters.
Rather than that the vibe I get from a Yams flash forward right now would be something that emphasizes their gained freedom like just enjoying themselves in adventures facing the unknown or something like that.Of course again it could all change with some more chapters pretty fast since there are a good amount of things that aren't just well defined right now but it's just my gut feelings based on what we've seen so far and how things like the character design, the story, the motivations have been meshing together.
I mean nothing would stop Yamato from ending up a Shanks like figure in the epilogue. By the time Roger disbanded the crew Shanks and Buggy were in their teens as he went to start his own crew.
I mean other pretty famous characters are going to continue on. I can see Usopp starting his own crew too.
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If you get on a ship and you can outperform 90% of the crew in battle, you are not an apprentice, you are a pirate.
You just made all that up.
None of that is a guideline to being a pirate since there's more to being a pirate than battle.
The title is pirate apprentice.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
What basics though ? What makes a competent pirate ?
Knowing the difference between the crow's nest and the starboard side.
You know, how to operate and function on a ship. Then more piratey things from looting towns to searching for treasure.
There's a lot Yamato can learn from Luffy, Jimbe, Brook, and Franky to start.
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Luffy literally trained his whole life to be strong enough to be a pirate.
Yamato is strong enough to fight an Emperor, but apparently he needs to be an apprentice to learn… stuff.
If being a pirate was strictly about fighting you'd have a point.
Luffy did bother to learn how to sail a boat by himself but Luffy isn't the best example on this cuz he's an idiot and always says he needs a crew to do the other "stuff".
Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
@Zik:
You just made all that up.
None of that is a guideline to being a pirate since there's more to being a pirate than battle.
The title is pirate apprentice.
I already know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway. Has the pirate apprentice position ever been shown outside of the flashbacks used to link current characters to past characters/events? Has an adult ever been linked to that position? None of the SHs had any pirating experience before joining the crew except Jinbe and none of them were treated like apprentices. They all had their roles defined and displayed before joining.
I already know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway. Has the pirate apprentice position ever been shown outside of the flashbacks used to link current characters to past characters/events?
Why does when a position was shown matter at all?
Did you make up some sort of has to appear not in a flashback rule?
The point your making seems to only matter to you.
Has an adult ever been linked to that position?
Kaido and Marco.
None of the SHs had any pirating experience before joining the crew except Jinbe and none of them were treated like apprentices. They all had their roles defined and displayed before joining.
Umm Brook.
The other strawhats already had skills to serve other positions in the crew - well most of them. Usopp learned on the job as well. They weren't treated as apprentices cuz they were ALL rookies back then except for Brook.
I find the obsession with Yamato's position in the crew funny. Zoro's position is still "swordsman".
Stop making a big deal out of this. It doesn't have to be that deep.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
I find the obsession with Yamato's position in the crew funny. Zoro's position is still "swordsman".
Stop making a big deal out of this. It doesn't have to be that deep.
Agreed, not that I’m expecting everyone to agree with me, but for some reason most people on the forums seem quick and ready to strongly shoot down any position suggested without trying to use in-story examples or at least be willing to entertain the suggestions even when it doesn’t agree their view otherwise. I dunno, I just get bad vibes all around, regardless of who agrees and who doesn’t, when people approach discussions like that, you know what I’m saying?
@The:
Yamato’s role will be “Straw Hats Rockstar” :ninja:
This guy gets it.
.Think about the recent SBS reveal. Rockstar isn't considered an officer of the Red Hairs despite having a pretty decent sized bounty, probably more by now since his introduction, just consider any of the crew could have been a rookie pirate apprentice underneath a different Yonko take your pick had they run into them first before eachother. Luffy included if Shanks was more like Roger when it came letting kids be Pirates.
Also just from Oden's flashback their's implication of different levels to Apprenticeship, see Marco being subservient to Whitey Bay when it comes to making decisions on who gets first dibs on exploring Wano, yet when they fight the Roger Pirates, apprentice Marco was leading the charge. Shanks and Buggy werent that was left to Rayleigh and Gaban. Things like this from Oda shouldn't be ignored.
Kaido was still considered a bigger threat than even Shiki when he was apart of Rocks and was only differentiated when Oda felt he needed to. Question becomes why? He could've easily had Sengoku use the term Rookie why was Pirate Apprentice used to describe this time in Her Father's life?
I already know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway. Has the pirate apprentice position ever been shown outside of the flashbacks used to link current characters to past characters/events? Has an adult ever been linked to that position? None of the SHs had any pirating experience before joining the crew except Jinbe and none of them were treated like apprentices. They all had their roles defined and displayed before joining.
That's because they were literally a rookie pirate crew. The Captain had as much experience as any other.
They weren't joining a bigger crew with an established pirate captain, in which case they would likely end up as apprentices.
Also, as pointed out previously, Kaidou was still an Apprentice by 21.
None of the SHs had any pirating experience before joining the crew except Jinbe
Brook was a vice captain then captain… nami been with pirates since arlong took over her home, robin been with pirates throughout her 2 decades before meeting the crew.
@Zik:
Knowing the difference between the crow's nest and the starboard side.
You mean vocabulary ?
You know, how to operate and function on a ship.
I'm sorry but I'm not quite getting what you guys are trying to get at. All that matters is strength to be honest, that's why Bigmom wasn't an apprentice but Kaido was.
Then more piratey things from looting towns to searching for treasure.
The SHs never did that, except once on Shandora.
The Apprentice being a complete battle monster is great because then you get the reaction of stangers of "holy crap, that's just their APPRENTICE?"
The saem way everyone sees Zoro and goes "That's just the 2nd?" and now with Jinbei will go "The former warlord is just a helmsman, not the captain?" It makes the crew crazier to have strong people where you don't expect them..
Its fun and we're in the endgame so its not even a thing that would have to last that long.
@Zik:
Why does when a position was shown matter at all?
Did you make up some sort of has to appear not in a flashback rule?
The point your making seems to only matter to you.
It matters because in 1,034 chapters, it's never appeared in the present timeline. Apparently, it matters to Oda. I just recognized it.
Kaido and Marco.
Current timeline. Why are you including flashbacks when I already said the role only appears in flashbacks?
Umm Brook.
The other strawhats already had skills to serve other positions in the crew - well most of them. Usopp learned on the job as well. They weren't treated as apprentices cuz they were ALL rookies back then except for Brook.
Point is, the majority of the crew was new to pirating and none of them were considered apprentices, even Chopper who was the youngest. They all showed their specific skill set/role before joining and I'm not sure how someone who can take on an emperor, is 28 years old, and who has expressed zero interest in an apprenticing role is supposed to demonstrate it before joining. "I want to sail with Luffy" can be done without all the logistical hoops of trying to fit a square peg (role needed) in a round hole (sailing with the crew).
It matters because in 1,034 chapters, it's never appeared in the present timeline. Apparently, it matters to Oda. I just recognized it.
Current timeline. Why are you including flashbacks when I already said the role only appears in flashbacks?
Point is, the majority of the crew was new to pirating and none of them were considered apprentices, even Chopper who was the youngest. They all showed their specific skill set/role before joining and I'm not sure how someone who can take on an emperor, is 28 years old, and who has expressed zero interest in an apprenticing role is supposed to demonstrate it before joining. "I want to sail with Luffy" can be done without all the logistical hoops of trying to fit a square peg (role needed) in a round hole (sailing with the crew).
Yep, as mentioned before. And even Jinbe who wasn't talked about being a great helmsman back at Marineford doesn't necessarily lessen his value as one, since apparently the Tarai Current near Marineford needs particularly good helmsmanship to manage through.
Can't see Yamato becoming the apprentice, mainly because it would establish a hierarchy within the crew and we can't have that (same way Zoro isn't officially called the first mate). Oda even makes sure that Luffy's authority as the captain is undermined regularly, and that position actually matters. It's done in a friendly jab-manner between friends, of course, but the reader needs to keep the impression that they are family, not a group that runs a promotion system.
And no one outside of the crew has a reason to treat someone as strong as Yamato as the apprentice of the Straw Hats. I mean Oda could of course play the joke of a Yonkou-levelish character being the noob of the crew, but it can't be an official role that's lowkey degrading in nature, established by the Straw Hats to boot.
I'm somewhat surprised that the job/role thing is still discussed to this degree. I thought it would be super obvious that if Yams joins, he would fill the official role of the chronicler since no other Straw Hat seems invested enough to actually write things down. Nami only cares about the navigational aspects after all, not the pathos of the journey (like Noland or Oden). And we definitely could use some pathos during the final stretch of the adventure.
It would be a really convenient way to play Yams as the curious late newcomer, but without the degrading flavor that comes with the "apprentice" tag.
Can't see Yamato becoming the apprentice, mainly because it would establish a hierarchy within the crew and we can't have that (same way Zoro isn't officially called the first mate). Oda even makes sure that Luffy's authority as the captain is undermined regularly, and that position actually matters. It's done in a friendly jab-manner between friends, of course, but the reader needs to keep the impression that they are family, not a group that runs a promotion system.
And no one outside of the crew has a reason to treat someone as strong as Yamato as the apprentice of the Straw Hats. I mean Oda could of course play the joke of a Yonkou-levelish character being the noob of the crew, but it can't be an official role that's lowkey degrading in nature, established by the Straw Hats to boot.
I see it as something Yamato would establish upon himself, so the hierarchy would exist, but in his head.
Thus you get a loophole similar to the Grand Fleet, where Luffy doesn't want to recognize them as below him, but they do anyway because they're free to do so.
Everything that can bring a sequel forward in time (yeah, I'm excluding time-travel lol) is to be banished imo, just like the idea of a journal of the SH crew kept by Yamato. It'd mean that someone will one day read that journal and follow Luffy's path… Anyway, I'm also saying that because I feel like the whole "Dawn" stuff sounds a lot like "ending history" as some writers think that history has an end.
Now watch me getting trolled for having brought up such a subject to this forum.
I'm somewhat surprised that the job/role thing is still discussed to this degree. I thought it would be super obvious that if Yams joins, he would fill the official role of the chronicler since no other Straw Hat seems invested enough to actually write things down. Nami only cares about the navigational aspects after all, not the pathos of the journey (like Noland or Oden). And we definitely could use some pathos during the final stretch of the adventure.
It would be a really convenient way to play Yams as the curious late newcomer, but without the degrading flavor that comes with the "apprentice" tag.
Yeah, as much as some people push how there's a hierarchy like with the Monster Trio, I think it's still fair to say they still see themselves as a family of friends that are friendly enough not to establish "inferior" and "superior" ranks like that.
Also, I got the impression that Nami would track things down in a book, going by Chapter 322, assuming that was her saying the narration. If not her, then maybe Robin or even Chopper, since they both seem interested in literature/writing enough to write some things down for themselves as a side hobby. If none of them count because they haven't been seen doing it enough, then that's probably less so the case for Yamato herself, since she hasn't really been since writing down anything at all ever since she met up with Luffy in June, 2020, even when keeping the hecticness of the battle in mind.
Unless you are taking a specific role such as navigator or doctor, yes, that's what you need to be a pirate in a pirate crew. Most pirates just follow orders, do the heavy work and fight.
No.
As an apprentice in anything you learn enough to know what you're ultimately going to want to do with it. In this instance it'd probably be pirate captain for Yamato.
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You mean vocabulary ?
No. What I said.
I'm sorry but I'm not quite getting what you guys are trying to get at. All that matters is strength to be honest, that's why Bigmom wasn't an apprentice but Kaido was.
You just made this up.
You don't know what position Big Mom held in the Rocks pirates.
The SHs never did that, except once on Shandora.
LOL.
Never did it except for that one time.
Did you stop reading at looting?
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It matters because in 1,034 chapters, it's never appeared in the present timeline. Apparently, it matters to Oda. I just recognized it.
No again this doesn't matter just cuz you brought it up and recognized it.
This is like saying Oda doesn't kill characters in the present only flashbacks. Then having to correct yourself by saying except for Ace, Whitebeard, oh and Pedro…. and a few looks durong the East Blue saga lile that one marine at the Baratie.
This stance is not a strong one.
You guys can only point to Burgess when talking about a helmsman to justify guessing Jimbe would be one yet all kf the apprentices that have popped up in the past don't count in to speculating Yamato might be one. Its entirely arbitrary.1034 chapters and there have been more apprentices depicted in the manga than helmsman, more navigators, first mates, doctors, and shipwrights.
Stop pretending like you know for a fact what matters to Oda or not.
Current timeline.
Doesn't matter.
Point is, the majority of the crew was new to pirating and none of them were considered apprentices, even Chopper who was the youngest. They all showed their specific skill set/role before joining and I'm not sure how someone who can take on an emperor, is 28 years old, and who has expressed zero interest in an apprenticing role is supposed to demonstrate it before joining. "I want to sail with Luffy" can be done without all the logistical hoops of trying to fit a square peg (role needed) in a round hole (sailing with the crew).
Again, none of these things matter in what it takes to be an apprentice.
To be fair with you, except for the OnePiece itself, the last time I heard about an actual real treasure in One Piece was when Shanks proposed a map to Buggy to find whoever's treasure it was during the Marineford war…
Bigmom was already sailing before Rocks and had at least a bounty of 500million. I doubt she was an apprentice. And nothing says she was. Whether it's by strength or "piratey" attitude, she wasn't an apprentice.
Please, make your point instead of trolling. This or you're drunk af considering your entire post
To be fair with you, except for the OnePiece itself, the last time I heard about an actual real treasure in One Piece was when Shanks proposed a map to Buggy to find whoever's treasure it was during the Marineford war…
Bigmom was already sailing before Rocks and had at least a bounty of 500million. I doubt she was an apprentice. And nothing says she was. Whether it's by strength or "piratey" attitude, she wasn't an apprentice.
Please, make your point instead of trolling. This or you're drunk af considering your entire post
I didn't say Big Mom was an apprentice. I said you did not know her position in Rocks crew. If you missed the point go and reread from the beginning.
Perhaps it is you that is on medication or drugs for not understanding what you're reading? If so just abstain from replying.
@Nilitch:
Everything that can bring a sequel forward in time (yeah, I'm excluding time-travel lol) is to be banished imo, just like the idea of a journal of the SH crew kept by Yamato. It'd mean that someone will one day read that journal and follow Luffy's path… Anyway, I'm also saying that because I feel like the whole "Dawn" stuff sounds a lot like "ending history" as some writers think that history has an end.
Now watch me getting trolled for having brought up such a subject to this forum.
Whether history ends or not piracy will still exist after the dawn or final war.
Also its a losing battle if you're getting against One Piece spinoffs and sequels.
As far as the journal and somebody one day reading it. Already seems like from Tama to Aisa there's a bunch of kids already inspired by the strawhats. As for reading or retelling, it's possible Yamato has been the narrator of One Piece the entire time so there wouldn't be anything that "can bring a sequel forward in time" as its happening now.
@Robby:
The Apprentice being a complete battle monster is great because then you get the reaction of stangers of "holy crap, that's just their APPRENTICE?"
The saem way everyone sees Zoro and goes "That's just the 2nd?" and now with Jinbei will go "The former warlord is just a helmsman, not the captain?" It makes the crew crazier to have strong people where you don't expect them..
Its fun and we're in the endgame so its not even a thing that would have to last that long.
I've said the same recently. Conveniently gets ignored and unquoted.
Luffy literally trained his whole life to be strong enough to be a pirate.
Yamato is strong enough to fight an Emperor, but apparently he needs to be an apprentice to learn… stuff.
What basics though ? What makes a competent pirate ?
Ejem..
I suppose ya'll perfectly aware that Pirates uuhm.. travel, yes, they do a lot of traveling actually.(I really hope this isnt surprising knews)
The Grand Line is one heck of a hell to travel, and the New World is even harsher, well since she's never done it before, its most likely if not guaranteed that Yamato doesn't even know how to get from Point A to Point B out there, it was even established she tried to sail multiple times and failed, and stopped doing it after accidentally eating her DF.
That is what she gon learn, that's whats gonna make her a competent pirate eventually, Yamato is not like the guys from the Fleet that have been sailing around the whole time, she's never done it before, she wants to go out and find treasures, and apparently she wants to help Luffy find the biggest treasure out there, but she just cant do it without actual practical knowledge.
Luffy didnt have any power up until Enies Lobby, it was one massive of a powerhouse since the beggining and almost drowned the very first time he stepped into such a calm sea as the East Blue is, which clearly prooves that strenght alone will not make you a competent pirate.
I suppose ya'll perfectly aware that Pirates uuhm.. travel, yes, they do a lot of traveling actually.(I really hope this isnt surprising knews)
Yeah, that's why they from a crew. That's why they have roles.
The discussion here is about Yamato's role. An apprentice isn't just someone learning a new thing. Any newcomer pirate will learn things in their journeys, it doesn't make all of them apprentices.
In any normal crew, Yamato would just be another fighter. He's more than capable in that area of expertise, he doesn't need to be an apprentice, unless he's after a specific role, like learning navigation.
The problem is that the Straw Hats are small crew of highly specialized people. And that's Yamato's problem: he hasn't so far shown any unique specialized knowledge so far that would add to the crew. At best, he would take the same "fighter" role as Zoro. People are trying to assign him as the "apprentice" exactly because of that, just so he has a supposed role. But he does not fit the apprentice role at all.
@Zik:
No again this doesn't matter just cuz you brought it up and recognized it.
This is like saying Oda doesn't kill characters in the present only flashbacks. Then having to correct yourself by saying except for Ace, Whitebeard, oh and Pedro…. and a few looks durong the East Blue saga lile that one marine at the Baratie.
This stance is not a strong one.
You guys can only point to Burgess when talking about a helmsman to justify guessing Jimbe would be one yet all kf the apprentices that have popped up in the past don't count in to speculating Yamato might be one. Its entirely arbitrary.1034 chapters and there have been more apprentices depicted in the manga than helmsman, more navigators, first mates, doctors, and shipwrights.
Stop pretending like you know for a fact what matters to Oda or not.
Fact. The pirate apprentice role only exists in flashbacks. Characters deaths aren't the same thing. Those happen in both flashbacks and in the current timeline. The pirate apprentice role only exists in flashbacks. Just because you don't want to acknowledge it because it invalidates your theory doesn't make that fact any less relevant.
Doesn't matter.
In a manga that's been running for 24 years, it does. Sorry if that bothers you.
Again, none of these things matter in what it takes to be an apprentice.
Apparently, it matters enough to the author that it's only been included in flashbacks over the 24 years that the series has been running. As has been stated, every SH demonstrated qualifications of their roles before joining. Provide proof of why you think Oda will suddenly change this after all these years, give us some supporting scenes where the role has been alluded to for Yamato, or detail how Yamato has shown pirate apprentice qualifications. Otherwise, it's more fanfic than anything else.
Factor detail how Yamato has shown pirate apprentice qualifications.
But he does not fit the apprentice role at all.
You just need to have never navigated before as a pirate, that's all.
And Yamato does have that.
I find the obsession with Yamato's position in the crew funny. Zoro's position is still "swordsman".
Stop making a big deal out of this. It doesn't have to be that deep.
It's not really obsession people are just discussing stuff and this is leagues better than talking in circles about people not reading manga panels.
That said I consider myself in the camp that Yams might just join as another fighter no biggie. That said there wouldn't be precedent for that and based on the manga so far it's probably more reasonable to assume that they'll get a role of some kind.
It's not really obsession people are just discussing stuff and this is leagues better than talking in circles about people not reading manga panels.
That said I consider myself in the camp that Yams might just join as another fighter no biggie. That said there wouldn't be precedent for that and based on the manga so far it's probably more reasonable to assume that they'll get a role of some kind.
Yeah, if there has to be a distinctive role, then guard, if not, then combatant.
Consider never has Luffy mentioned or request Jinbe join his crew based on him being any kind of a capable Helmsmen. Jinbe took that designation upon himself because he knows as a veteran Pirate that's the best role he could serve as the Ocean dweller and veteran sailor.
Yamato knows they're a noob to being a Pirate. What she knows about it is the oppressive force her father has been to Wano the last 20 years. She's in no rush to be a leader just based on her reaction to Kaido's intentions for her in the grand scheme of his project. With a vocalized desire to sail with the Strawhats, not Luffy alone, I feel like that part is important about her declarations.
Combatant is also still a possibility, but that's only if Zoro commits or acknowledges his own status as the crew's Vice Captain or First Mate during his fight with King as I assume something like that would come about in a situation of Zoro's resolve to support Luffy and protect the crew came into question, almost taunting his loyalty to his crew more than his own desire to stand above all swordsman. By actions we know the answer, how he handled Kuma comes to mind, him bowing to Mihawk is probably the best example, but out right stated by Zoro that his dedication to the crew and Luffy's success has supplanted his own goals is what one would call development. Not just narrative awareness for the audience, but the character themselves become aware of how far they've come. Self acknowledgement.
I think the only reason Zoro or Oda to be more specific left Zoro's true role in the crew, or his obvious position as First Mate or Vice Captain ambiguous, is because Zoro himself said he'd cut down Luffy if he ever got in the way of his dream. He's the only crewmate with that distinction but up til now he's shown time and again to be the most loyal to not just Luffy, but the entire crew.
At various points in the story so far the original members have prioritized other things or left because they thought it was best for whatever reason. Not Zoro despite openly stating he'd not just leave, but cut him down the moment he felt Luffy was in his way.
I find the obsession with Yamato's position in the crew funny. Zoro's position is still "swordsman".
Stop making a big deal out of this. It doesn't have to be that deep.
I said it repeatedly in the past… but no, ppl just have to make their own job for Yamato (or even Tama and Carrot in extension)
Ship guard? What? Ppl who are staying behind in each arc guarded the ship?
Apprentice? What? What is that role actually does? Become a noob while everyone teach you how to pirate?
Etc etc
"Fighter" is enough. Law has 20 members, does everyone in his crew has different job? Or Kaido, which one is the navigator, chef, sniper etc?
Fact. The pirate apprentice role only exists in flashbacks.
Again, you can repeat this as much as you want. The relevancy does not change.
There's nothing to discuss. Especially when you try to pretend to know Oda's intentions in the depiction of pirate apprentices.
All you're doing is making up reasons for why you think that might be the case. Those are not facts.
Characters deaths aren't the same thing. Those happen in both flashbacks and in the current timeline. The pirate apprentice role only exists in flashbacks. Just because you don't want to acknowledge it because it invalidates your theory doesn't make that fact any less relevant.
Pretending this is some rule is incredibly dumb.
It doesn't invalidate anything.
And I did not make up any theory. What exactly are you reading to make that up?
In a manga that's been running for 24 years, it does. Sorry if that bothers you.
I just said it doesn't matter. By definition it doesn't bother me.
Seems like you want this to mean something or be one way but it really has no effect on my stance at all.
Apparently, it matters enough to the author that it's only been included in flashbacks over the 24 years that the series has been running.
Again stop pretending like you know Oda's thoughts or intentions when it comes to his choices in how he tells his story.
It's ridiculous.
Rereading some of the arguments, and still don't get why Yamato is seriously being discussed as a future apprentice. People seems to think that apprentices in pirate-crews do an internship to learn navigation, navigation and navigation. Because let's be honest, folks are being very unclear about what her role would consist in. Finding treasures… something that none of the SHs did since 2003... I'd love this idea to be necroed, but it's been so fucking long, I don't even believe in it anymore.
As for "ship guard", as said above it would exclude Yamato from a lot of adventures. And I feel like it's time for the Sunny to have his own soul like the Merry and to protect himself somehow... I hope Oda hasn't forgotten this idea.
Concerning the gag of Yamato being too strong to be an apprentice and this being great, well, it would quickly become redundant imo. And it's not a joke/gag if it's a permanent status (at least permanent until x event as others say). The comparison with Jinbei being a helmsman doesn't even work I guess, I mean I can't remember anyone saying "wot mate, is this warlord a mere helmsman wtf????" Maybe I missed it though
@Zik:
Whether history ends or not piracy will still exist after the dawn or final war.
At least, the golden age will be over as there won't be a OnePiece anymore. And of course that depends on how this manga ends. But neither of us know this.
At least, the golden age will be over as there won't be a OnePiece anymore. And of course that depends on how this manga ends. But neither of us know this.
The Golden age ended with Whitebeard's death.
The story is currently in the New Age of piracy.
If that ends with Luffy finding One Piece another age will start based on future events.
@Zik:
The Golden age ended with Whitebeard's death.
The story is currently in the New Age of piracy.
Whatever you're naming it. I'm talking about the "great age of piracy" then, maybe it's better wording. Which everything after Roger's execution is part of, and will be until the endgame of this series.
Maybe there won't be any more pirates after the Dawn, but that depends on how 900years of history will be fixed.
Fact. The pirate apprentice role only exists in flashbacks. Characters deaths aren't the same thing. Those happen in both flashbacks and in the current timeline. The pirate apprentice role only exists in flashbacks. Just because you don't want to acknowledge it because it invalidates your theory doesn't make that fact any less relevant.
Archaeologists as a whole literally only exist in the past, yet you don't see this logic being applied to Robin's position.
Like, what is even the point here? Do pirates don't have apprentice roles anymore or something?
There's no current Pirate King, he only exists in flashbacks.
Checkmate, Luffy.
@Zik:
Again, you can repeat this as much as you want. The relevancy does not change.
There's nothing to discuss. Especially when you try to pretend to know Oda's intentions in the depiction of pirate apprentices.
All you're doing is making up reasons for why you think that might be the case. Those are not facts.
Just because you don't think it's irrelevant doesn't mean it is. The burden of proof is not on me. I'm not the one saying that Oda will do something now that he's never done in the 24 year run of his manga. You need to justify why you think he will. It's not my rule. It's Oda's. State why you think Yamato's the exception and stop pretending like I'm making up something that the author has chosen to abide by.
Pretending this is some rule is incredibly dumb.
It doesn't invalidate anything.
And I did not make up any theory. What exactly are you reading to make that up?
It's not my rule. It's Oda's. I'm just stating it as fact as evidenced by what he's done since the series started. Tell us why you think Yamato's the exception to Oda's rule.
I just said it doesn't matter. By definition it doesn't bother me.
Seems like you want this to mean something or be one way but it really has no effect on my stance at all.
Clearly it does. You keep pushing this back on me as if I'm making up something that Oda has himself chosen to do. I'm merely stating a fact. If you disagree then provide reasons why you think Yamato's the exception and stop making this about me and what I think is important. Tell us why Oda will treat Yamato different and give us reasons why you think he will.
Again stop pretending like you know Oda's thoughts or intentions when it comes to his choices in how he tells his story.
It's ridiculous.
I don't have to know his intentions when I can read the manga he's worked on for 24+ years. If you think he's going to do something he's never done before, then tell us why. Your response is basically like:
Me: Oda has never does this before.
You: Don't pretend to know Oda's thoughts.
I'm not pretending to know anything. I'm telling you what he's never done. The burden of proof isn't on me. It's like someone saying that Zoro will start using a different weapon and me saying that Oda's never done that and then the person (rather than providing proof), just says I should stop pretending to read Oda's mind.
Archaeologists as a whole literally only exist in the past, yet you don't see this logic being applied to Robin's position.
Like, what is even the point here? Do pirates don't have apprentice roles anymore or something?
Robin is an archaeologist in the current timeline. What? And that's my point. The pirate apprentice role in this manga has only been shown in flashbacks and not in the current timeline. The role was used to link current characters (Shanks, Buggy, Dog, Cat, to previous ones (Roger, Oden, etc.).
There's no current Pirate King, he only exists in flashbacks.
Checkmate, Luffy.
I'm sorry. I must've missed the chapter where "Pirate King" was a role on a ship and not just a title after finding One Piece.
It's not my rule. It's Oda's.
You're literally making up rules and attributing them to Oda.
Stop being disingenuous. There's no rule saying apprentices aren't a thing in the present.
Kaidou also didn't need to be apprentice either. He could have just been a regular captain like Big Mom and Whitebeard. Same for Marco, yet Oda went the length to make them past apprentices in this very arc. Both characters have existed for a long time before, but it's only recently that they were revealed to have held this specific position.
Now ask yourself why Oda just recently came up with the idea of making Marco and Kaidou apprentices and not just regular pirates. Because that detail was not really important to establish links. We know Kaidou was part of Rocks and that Marco was with Whitebeard since 30 years ago, but was them being apprentices necessary? For what reason?
What makes you think that Kaido "didn't need" to be apprentice on Xebec's ship ? Maybe he wasn't strong enough, who knows. Nothing says that he was a natural monster like Bigmom.
Same thing goes for Marco. I don't know what memories you kept from the flashbacks, but he was never seen fighting against Rayleigh… (unlike in the anime where he gets obliterated)
There is no reason at all to think that apprentices can go toe-to-toe with yonkous...
Kaido was clearly made an apprentice because he's one generation too young to have been a full-fledged member of Rocks. We know he was 21 when Rocks fell, but we don't know when Rocks formed his crew or when Kaido joined them, which probably happened several years earlier. I'd bet the timeline would not support Kaido being there unless he was made an apprentice.
Same with Marco. He's just 15 years when when WB arrived in Wano, and probably joined who knows how much earlier.
Meanwhile, people here are trying to suggest 28-year-old Yonko-fighting Yamato as an apprentice only because they can't figure a real position for him to fill up.
What makes you think that Kaido "didn't need" to be apprentice on Xebec's ship ? Maybe he wasn't strong enough, who knows. Nothing says that he was a natural monster like Bigmom.
Same thing goes for Marco. I don't know what memories you kept from the flashbacks, but he was never seen fighting against Rayleigh… (unlike in the anime where he gets obliterated)
There is no reason at all to think that apprentices can go toe-to-toe with yonkous...
But does that matter narratively? Kaido and Marco could've both been regular crewmates and nothing would've changed.
I'm saying that Oda made them apprentices for a reason, which was to focus on the position.
Kaido was clearly made an apprentice because he's one generation too young to have been a full-fledged member of Rocks. We know he was 21 when Rocks fell, but we don't know when Rocks formed his crew or when Kaido joined them, which probably happened several years earlier. I'd bet the timeline would not support Kaido being there unless he was made an apprentice.
Same with Marco. He's just 15 years when when WB arrived in Wano, and probably joined who knows how much earlier.
Meanwhile, people here are trying to suggest 28-year-old Yonko-fighting Yamato as an apprentice only because they can't figure a real position for him to fill up.
Again, age doesn't matter.
Kaidou was still an apprentice even at adulthood. That alone proves apprentices can be of any age.
Just because you don't think it's irrelevant doesn't mean it is.
It has nothing to do with the discussion.
Its a random fact you're pretending has relevancy to the topic.
The burden of proof is not on me.
This thing that doesn't matter doesnt have any thing to do with the burden of proof though.
I'm not the one saying that Oda will do something now that he's never done in the 24 year run of his manga.
No. You're saying since he hasn't that he won't solely based off that he hasn't.
You need to justify why you think he will. It's not my rule. It's Oda's.
Again this is made up. Just like I said about helmsman in the story.
It's not my rule. It's Oda's. I'm just stating it as fact as evidenced by what he's done since the series started. Tell us why you think Yamato's the exception to Oda's rule.
If only I felt it mattered but I don't.
Clearly it does.
No.
Read what I'm saying and stop trying to come up with ulterior meanings to my post.
You're not even talking about your stance. You're trying to tell me how I feel.
It is incredibly stupid.
You keep pushing this back on me as if I'm making up something that Oda has himself chosen to do. I'm merely stating a fact. If you disagree
This is where you just get weird and obsessive.
You're the one consistently quoting me repeating yourself about something that doesn't matter. You keep saying it does and you keep repeating yourself as if it suddenly will matter to me.
I do not think it matters. It's not that I disagree. It's that this fact that you think is important does not have any real significance to my stance.
It's odd that you do not get this. I'd have to chalk it up to stubbornness that you actually think that if you keep quoting me saying the same thing over and over again that I'll suddenly say you know what apprentices only in flashbacks do matter now.
then provide reasons why you think Yamato's the exception and stop making this about me and what I think is important. Tell us why Oda will treat Yamato different and give us reasons why you think he will.
The only reason this is even a topic is because you think it's important.
By now you should know my stance on it.
I don't have to know his intentions
Then stop pretending like you do.
Its incredibly arrogant.
Me: Oda has never does this before.
You: Okay and?
Fixed*
I'm not pretending to know anything. I'm telling you what he's never done.
This is the part where you ignore my response just to repeat yourself.
Don't have the official english translations at hand, but in Chapter 820: "In generational terms, Lord Oden was more of a kid or apprentice back then, like Shanks and Buggy." So at least Yamato's idol kinda had the same role.
That being said, I agree with anyone who says role discussions are pretty pointless. Roles are as important and unimportant as Oda wants them to be - usually on a whim. Straw Hats found their way back to Sabaody Archipelago without a problem. Suddenly, when it is thematically relevant, they almost starve or die of poison on their way to Whole Cake Island. They sailed across 3/4 (?) of the world without a helmsman and did not have any issues whatsoever. Brook might not have sang a song in 500 chapters. Yamato can have any pointless role you want. He might be the log keeper, rope maker, body guard or hair stylist of the crew - unless Oda has a shocking revelation up his sleeve, no role will make any story difference at this point, so I'm not sure why anybody should care about it.
Don't have the official english translations at hand, but in Chapter 820: "In generational terms, Lord Oden was more of a kid or apprentice back then, like Shanks and Buggy." So at least Yamato's idol kinda had the same role.
That being said, I agree with anyone who says role discussions are pretty pointless. Roles are as important and unimportant as Oda wants them to be - usually on a whim. Straw Hats found their way back to Sabaody Archipelago without a problem. Suddenly, when it is thematically relevant, they almost starve or die of poison on their way to Whole Cake Island. They sailed across 3/4 (?) of the world without a helmsman and did not have any issues whatsoever. Brook might not have sang a song in 500 chapters. Yamato can have any pointless role you want. He might be the log keeper, rope maker, body guard or hair stylist of the crew - unless Oda has a shocking revelation up his sleeve, no role will make any story difference at this point, so I'm not sure why anybody should care about it.
Yeah, Oda doesn't seem to treat roles as important to the point that it will keep people off the crew, but not important to the point of having no sort of purpose on the ship, like how Jinbe's helmsman ability wasn't made a particularly big deal at Impel Down, but that it didn't become the only reason he joined either.
Don't have the official english translations at hand, but in Chapter 820: "In generational terms, Lord Oden was more of a kid or apprentice back then, like Shanks and Buggy." So at least Yamato's idol kinda had the same role.
That's the official translation exactly
Inuarashi is just making a comparison, "in generational terms" he says. But Yamato is older than Luffy. Also, this translation there completely contradicts the story where Oden was commander of the second fleet of the WhiteBeard pirates and then becomes an apprentice on the OroJackson…
That's funny because Inu and Neko were the actual apprentices.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just checked and Oden isn't even mentioned there. There has probably been a correction. Inu is making a reference about himself and Neko, not Oden.
I just checked and Oden isn't even mentioned there. There has probably been a correction. Inu is making a reference about himself and Neko, not Oden.
Nevermind that point then - I stand corrected.
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