Yamato doesn't even care about Kin'emon's existence.
uh oh thats like -1000 nakama points I believe.
Yamato doesn't even care about Kin'emon's existence.
uh oh thats like -1000 nakama points I believe.
Yamato was touched by Shinobu's words. I always wanted to see his interaction with a fellow retainer or another SH. That kind of stuff would possibly provide some better characterization. Instead Luffy shipped him to retainer duty.
uh oh thats like -1000 nakama points I believe.
Forget nakama points, that’s -10,000 Oden points.
People still didn’t get it?
This is not a “blame game”. I don’t think any character will blame Yamato on it. Momo and Shinobu even released him from futy and allowed him to go. I doubt anyone will really do an investigation to get the facts right and then blame Yamato. That’s not the point.
The point is, if happens, how much Yamato will blame himself. And, if he does, how that can affect his decisions from then on.
Because we were alking about the possibility of Yamato as Momo’s or Wano’s guardian. And Oda just made a strange sequence of events in which Yamato left his post to fight his dad, and that decidion gave his dad just enough time to mortally wound Momo’s current guardian and Oden’s first retainer.
Because you may like the idea or not, but what’s the point of making Yamato leave to fight his dad just as his dad arrives where Yamato was?
Yamato probably couldn’t influence Kiku’s fate. He’d probably be confused about “Oden”, allowing the Kiku-Kanjuro-Kin’emon sequence to remain unchanged.
But Yamato maybe could have saved Kin from Kaido’s kanabo. And, even he if he couldn’t, he definitely would be there to hold Kaido, which would prevent Kin’emon’s final desperate attack which led to him being stabbed through the back.
That final attack is a direct consequence (not “fault”) of Yamato not being there, and, it may lead to a certain feeling of guilt on Yamato if he concludes Kin’emon died because he left.
I have a very hard time thinking that Kinemon could even possibly be dead at this point. More than any of the Akazaya, Kin's the one who should see this story through to the end, and that's not even bringing O-tsuru into the discussion.
I get the feeling Yamato's conscience will be clear on this one.
Kin's death would hold the most impact. I hope Oda doesn't do it. I'm not ready.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
All I'm doing is applying the same logic the people mocking this line of thought used against other characters. But I guess people aren't willing to see that. I also wasn't trying to blame Yamato. I was suggesting that yes, there are potentially ramifications of Yamato's choice, which, whether the reasoning was sound or not, was the wrong choice because Momo was very quickly discovered as soon as Yamato left him and Shinobu alone, but more importantly that not listening to the one directive she received from Luffy up to this point lends to the idea she's more of a leader than a follower.
I must've not been here for w/e you're referencing in your mocking.
Other than a joke I'm not sure how it matters.
And of course actions have ramifications during a huge battle.
As for being more of a leader tham follower so is Sanji and Nami. Sanji routinely manages to disappear during the climax of the arc or earlier and do something pivotal to free his crewmates or help them escape. Nami always goes off to steal money on her own accord.
In this instance Yamato chose to go fight his father knowing Luffy wouldn't fair well in a one on one and placed that above Momo off hiding in an attic.
Nami face has easily been taken over by "we already have a furry with horns" on Twitter.
Completely different ballpark.
Namiface can be written off with Oda being professionally blinkered ("what do you mean he looks like Nami in a wig? Can't you see he has 10 more eyebrow pixels??").
But Yamato's Hybrid mode looking like a female deer mink, sprinkled with some magic fairy dust? It's something else entirely. It means that during creation, if Oda intended Yamato to be the next crewmember, he not only went for another character who transforms into a beast, but also a beast that resembles a beast we already have.
Out of all the creatures at Oda's disposal, he decided to go with something that visually/thematically overlaps with Chopper. It's female, it's beautiful, it has some mystical features - it looks nothing like Chopper. But in the end it's another crewmember transforming into a humanoid deer creature. Something with fur and antlers.
The only reason I don't consider this an instant KO for Yamato's chances is the fact that he's biologically female. And because one of Oda's editors is an irritating furry. But in general? It's a massive blow from my point of view. If Yamato would be an androgynous male, another boy turning into the thing we see here? Minus sideboob? No one would be talking about him anymore. No matter how many times he claims to join the crew.
All the other things don't faze me at all by the way.
Nami face is still heavily present in some shots, but Oda's effort to set them apart is super obvious at this point.
The constant fire effects overlapping with Sanji? No problem, Jinbe just stole his Martial Arts theme so Sanji's role is in flux anyway.
Another Zoan and a brute-force fighter to boot? It's definitely pushing it, but Chopper can be moved back to his pre-ts role as a flex-fighter (Brain Point, Jump Point, Arm Point etc. You know, the times where he didn't just go Kung Fu or Monster Point at every opportunity).
Being too strong for Zoro / Sanji is worth thinking about, but so easily fixed that it shouldn't be seriously considered. Just don't give Yams CoC and that's it, the official tool of the strongest.
But Oda opting for another Deer Creature, even if it isn't called a Deer, is huge. You may think this is too superficial, but I can't imagine Oda, who does try to avoid too many overlaps within the crew, going for a human who turns into a deer thing, while we already have a deer who turns into a human thing.
The only saving grace is furry appeal and Naito, that's virtually the only reason why Yams is still on my radar at all.
Yeah, it’s not like he wasn’t there in the Hour of Legends, didn’t see Oden’s sacrifice for his followers, nor got Oden’s journal in which he describes his retainers and their stories together. Why would Yamato care when he sees Momonosuke crying over Kin’emon? Or during his funeral with all the honors of a samurai. And all the people of Wano,as well as Luffy and the entire crew, are mourning and revering him?
There’s no reason for Yamato to care.
And Yamato has cannonically shown no interest for Kin'emon at all, even when she realized they all were alive, she didn't even react, they haven't had a tiny interaction either.
its pretty much a fact that she's never cared.
Somehow this thread had a big second wind after Yams pre-booked the new strawhat DLC. Funny enough i was genuinely thinking that i should probably think about closing this thread now that the cat was all the way out of the bag
Somehow this thread had a big second wind after Yams pre-booked the new strawhat DLC. Funny enough i was genuinely thinking that i should probably think about closing this thread now that the cat was all the way out of the bag
This game is far from over…
It's all Joy Boy's fault for making a promise he couldn't keep and starting the entire premise of the series, duh.
But Yamato's Hybrid mode looking like a female deer mink, sprinkled with some magic fairy dust? It's something else entirely. It means that during creation, if Oda intended Yamato to be the next crewmember, he not only went for another character who transforms into a beast, but also a beast that resembles a beast we already have.
Out of all the creatures at Oda's disposal, he decided to go with something that visually/thematically overlaps with Chopper. It's female, it's beautiful, it has some mystical features - it looks nothing like Chopper. But in the end it's another crewmember transforming into a humanoid deer creature. Something with fur and antlers.
- Nami face is still heavily present in some shots, but Oda's effort to set them apart is super obvious at this point.
But Oda opting for another Deer Creature, even if it isn't called a Deer, is huge. You may think this is too superficial, but I can't imagine Oda, who does try to avoid too many overlaps within the crew, going for a human who turns into a deer thing, while we already have a deer who turns into a human thing.
I've said it before when Yamato's hybrid form was revealed: I'm still waiting for more perspectives and giving Oda more time before I reach a definite conclusion about Yamato's deer-like appearance. His face was ever so slightly tweaked with each chapter and Kaido's hybrid form also wasn't impressive in the first reveal. It was only after we could see it from different angles that it started to stand out
Shinobu seems to be somewhat Kin'emon's disciple or protegee, she actually participated in the Battle between Kaido vs Oden, defended Oden in his execution, she actually cares and believes in Kin'emon, she's endured the last 20 years as a fugitive only because she kept believing Kin'emon would come back, she's been the most non-scabbard character actively taking care of Momo most of the time.
if any passing the torch, or will inheritance to become Momo's first retainer is going to happen, Shinobu makes the most, massive, total and absolute sense.
And that's also unlikely going to happen since the Kin'emon/Otsuru reunion is still lurking around.
True, it would be disrespectful if someone got ahead of Shinobu on that front. Tama, Yamato and Carrot would come after Shinobu who is the Kin of Momo's retainers.
Yamato was touched by Shinobu's words. I always wanted to see his interaction with a fellow retainer or another SH. That kind of stuff would possibly provide some better characterization. Instead Luffy shipped him to retainer duty.
It's still quite sus that he hasn't been shown around more people. It's been Luffy, Franky, Momo, Shinobu, and a bunch of villains. That's it. The fact that he made it up to the roof without passing by any of the allies is pretty crazy. You have thousands of allies and yet he's only been shown around like 4?
@Zik:
So it's Luffy's fault?
Well that's an interesting way to put it. Wonder what his reaction will be in the event Luffy finds out Kinemon got hurt just after Luffy lost Round 2.
Yeah Yamato’s Zoan hybrid form is one of the biggest let down’s in One Piece (Kaido’s hybrid form is right up there too) but didn’t Greg say he thinks there’s something else about it we haven’t seen yet? Give it at least one chapter to see where Oda goes with it
Again I think Yamato will join but I’m not sold on the idea till we get flashback/dream/mentor and I’m not absolutely in love with the idea either, I think the design is kind of lacking after Chopper/Franky/Brook/Jinbei I was expecting the last member to be something crazy even for One Piece, I guess that’s what I get for having too much expectations
but didn’t Greg say he thinks there’s something else about it we haven’t seen yet?
Nope, I said there are aspects of it that are somewhat unique to this particular depiction of a Zoan. I did not indicate there's something anyone 'hasn't seen' only particular artistic aspects that 'hadn't been noted' at the time of posting. They have since been noted in various discussions.
Nope, I said there are aspects of it that are somewhat unique to this particular depiction of a Zoan. I did not indicate there's something anyone 'hasn't seen' only particular artistic aspects that 'hadn't been noted' at the time of posting. They have since been noted in various discussions.
I'm sorry, my bad I apologize
No worries. I just try to be careful with those comments because one day they turn into, "Greg lied about XYZ!" when it was just a simple misinterpretation or assumption. I get it. It happens. I do it too. You're gold.
I actually don't mind Yamato's Devil Fruit form design. I think it looks quite majestic and divine. The biggest disappointment for me within the Wano Kuni arc are the SMILE users, they are useless and serve the purpose of being the amusement within the scenes. The SMILE users aren't terrifying at all.
As for Yamato "abandoning" Momonosuke, he did that to continue to protect Momonosuke by acting as a decoy and taking on Kaido - the best way to protect Momonosuke is to take down Kaido. Yamato never failed Luffy's "orders" and is still fulfilling them.
More than anyone on Onigashima, Yamato understands the danger Kaido represents. If there is any character that can be trusted when it comes to making decisions concerning Kaido, it is Yamato. And in regards to Yamato appearing stronger than Zoro when facing off against Kaido, it is obvious why. Yamato has been battling Kaido for the majority of his life. Zoro has only faced off against Kaido once. More than other characters, Yamato understands how to "fight" with Kaido. Knowledge is power and that power is now serving Yamato in his battle against Kaido. If Zoro fought with Kaido the same number of times as Yamato, Zoro would have faired much better.
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Also I do want to add that at this point I don't believe any of the current "injured" characters will be dying. Three of the worlds best doctors are on Onigashima and they also have access to the Mink medicine. Kin'emon, Ashura Doji, and Kiku won't be dying imo. The arc will be handled in the same way as the Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou and Totto Island Arcs - where those that appeared to have died, didn't.
As for Yamato "abandoning" Momonosuke, he did that to continue to protect Momonosuke by acting as a decoy and taking on Kaido - the best way to protect Momonosuke is to take down Kaido.
The thing is that it was played pretty obviously as a fake excuse to fight.
The chapter was called "Itching" partly because there was a scene of Yamato "itching" to fight Kaido.
Yamato creating a decoy Momo was played for laughs for how badly obvious it was an excuse.
Shinobu had to say it was alright, Yamato could go, because Kin'emon was coming to help them.
I can't say for sure, but there's a lot of signs that the author may have been trying to imply something there. I found those scenes strange. I found it even stranger that Kaido went for Momo just after. Why, for storytelling purposes, move Yamato away if Kaido would later come to them? Because the author needed Yamato to be away for a brief moment or else the scene wouldn't play as intended. So, I may be reading the intention wrong, but definitely there was some intention there.
I had to get use to Jimbe's design and Usopp. People will learn to love Yamato's hybrid form.
Also I do want to add that at this point I don't believe any of the current "injured" characters will be dying. Three of the worlds best doctors are on Onigashima and they also have access to the Mink medicine. Kin'emon, Ashura Doji, and Kiku won't be dying imo. The arc will be handled in the same way as the Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou and Totto Island Arcs - where those that appeared to have died, didn't.
Did I miss when it was revealed Vergo and Monet were shown alive after Punk Hazard?
@Zik:
Did I miss when it was revealed Vergo and Monet were shown alive after Punk Hazard?
In the next chapter when we saw that Ceaser had missed actually stabbing her heart and the spike was straight up in the ground.
We've been over this.
They haven't reappeared yet, but the outliers for characters like Mr. 9 are 13 years, so they're nowhere near the record holders yet.
A question: who predicted Whitebeard and/or Ace were going to die in Marineford?
My answer:
! I thought one or the other would die at first. As chapters got released, I started to think maybe both could die. Then Ace got released and Whitebeard declared he was staying behind, I got sure only Whitebeard was going to die, as Ace dying after being released felt strange. Then Ace died. And Whitebeard died.
One Piece does not often kills characters. It actively avoids it, even when death would make the most sense. But, at the same time, it did it when it mattered the most.
This is a big war. People were expecting a tragedy, and one or more of the scabbards dying was the most likely, if it happened. My bet was Kiku or Denjiro, because they are charismatic, but not Kin'emon, who would sure meet his wife. But I don't totally discard the possibility just because Oda chose to give Pound or Pell happy endings.
No worries. I just try to be careful with those comments because one day they turn into, "Greg lied about XYZ!" when it was just a simple misinterpretation or assumption. I get it. It happens. I do it too. You're gold.
Greg, I wanted to tell you, I had a conversation with Robby on Twitter afterward. I don't think you likely saw it; I think I misread your post last week. It sounded to me like you already know what Yamato's Devil Fruit is and were confirming suspicion that what saw on panel was somehow 'off' (as in, not what it seems). That's the only reason I brought up spoilers. I didn't recognize your post was speculative. It sounded definitive and thus, I thought it was based on already knowing what's soon to be revealed.
A question: who predicted Whitebeard and/or Ace were going to die in Marineford?
My answer:
! I thought one or the other would die at first. As chapters got released, I started to think maybe both could die. Then Ace got released and Whitebeard declared he was staying behind, I got sure only Whitebeard was going to die, as Ace dying after being released felt strange. Then Ace died. And Whitebeard died.
One Piece does not often kills characters. It actively avoids it, even when death would make the most sense. But, at the same time, it did it when it mattered the most.
This is a big war. People were expecting a tragedy, and one or more of the scabbards dying was the most likely, if it happened. My bet was Kiku or Denjiro, because they are charismatic, but not Kin'emon, who would sure meet his wife. But I don't totally discard the possibility just because Oda chose to give Pound or Pell happy endings.
There were multiple people who saw ace/whitebeard's deaths coming from a mile away based on story beats. It was obvious whitebeard was going out, and both of them got clear resolutions and finales before passing away.
Kinemon not having any of those (with an unresolved meeting with his wife) already makes his "death" uncertain as heck, and oda will milk the drama out of any forecoming deaths.
I'm more willing to put stock in his track record that he will, at best, keep any MC deaths at a all low in this arc.
The thing is that it was played pretty obviously as a fake excuse to fight.
The chapter was called "Itching" partly because there was a scene of Yamato "itching" to fight Kaido.
Yamato creating a decoy Momo was played for laughs for how badly obvious it was an excuse.
Shinobu had to say it was alright, Yamato could go, because Kin'emon was coming to help them.
Yes, Yamato was "itching" to get into the fight with Kaidou, but let's not forget that he also knew via Momo that it had turned into a one-vs-one between his father and Luffy, and Yams probably knows better than anyone how bad of an idea trying to fight Kaidou 1v1 is. Had Yamato made it in time, Luffy probably would never have fallen, meaning Momo and Shinobu would have been safe once Kinemon and Kiku dealt with Kanjuro. Kaidou would have never struck down Kinemon and sent Momo falling to the ground because he'd be tied up 2v1-ing with Yams and Luffy.
It didn't work, but it COULD have worked, had Yamato been faster or had Luffy held out longer.
Yes, Yamato was "itching" to get into the fight with Kaidou, but let's not forget that he also knew via Momo that it had turned into a one-vs-one between his father and Luffy, and Yams probably knows better than anyone how bad of an idea trying to fight Kaidou 1v1 is. Had Yamato made it in time, Luffy probably would never have fallen, meaning Momo and Shinobu would have been safe once Kinemon and Kiku dealt with Kanjuro. Kaidou would have never struck down Kinemon and sent Momo falling to the ground because he'd be tied up 2v1-ing with Yams and Luffy.
It didn't work, but it COULD have worked, had Yamato been faster or had Luffy held out longer.
So Yamato had no faith in Luffy's ability to take on Kaido unlike the crew? This deal is just getting worse all the time. :ninja:
I think the phrase 'one on one' is incredibly important; However, Yamato was preparing to leave Momo before she knew Luffy was alone.
Kin has provided a lot of funny moments in PH and Dressrosa. He deserves to meet Tsuru. Oda is a hack if he kills him.
But Yamato's Hybrid mode looking like a female deer mink, sprinkled with some magic fairy dust?
I really don't understand how anyone is coming to that conclusion. Like, the first thing you heard before you saw it yourself was "deer" so when you see it you're thinking deer?
Or you first saw it in the spoilers which start with the reveal shot, and left out the leadup?
Because the very first shot we see of it is muzzle. thick lips and sharp teeth, which looks extremely canine.
Is it the horns? If its the horns that's mostly a concession to making the base form look nice. But they're nothing at all like antlers.
The ears, the eyebrows, the mouth, the teeth, the flowing magic hair, the different kind of horns, none of it looks like a deer. At all.
Plus I'm sure Oda will refine it some more as he goes, much like he did with Yamato's base form, and Kaidou's hybrid, which also looked iffy in its first panel.
He looks nothing like Chopper or Minky.
Neither does Carrot. I'm not using Yamato's similarity to Chopper as a point against her. So I think it's time to retire that argument against Carrot. If it's not a problem for Yamato, it's not a problem for Carrot.
I really don't understand how anyone is coming to that conclusion. Like, the first thing you heard before you saw it yourself was "deer" so when you see it you're thinking deer?
Or you first saw it in the spoilers which start with the reveal shot, and left out the leadup?
Because the very first shot we see of it is muzzle. thick lips and sharp teeth, which looks extremely canine.
Is it the horns? If its the horns that's mostly a concession to making the base form look nice. But they're nothing at all like antlers.
The ears, the eyebrows, the mouth, the teeth, the flowing magic hair, the different kind of horns, none of it looks like a deer. At all.
Plus I'm sure Oda will refine it some more as he goes, much like he did with Yamato's base form, and Kaidou's hybrid, which also looked iffy in its first panel.
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/tQ0fy61/chopyam.jpg[/qimg]
He looks nothing like Chopper or Minky.
For me it's the horns and especially the ears. They remind me of an antelope (which I'm aware isn't a deer species, but close enough). If he'd had the classic triangular ears instead it'd given a clearer carnivore signal. The long, slender limbs also give off a deer vibe. Like I can't see him as a pure deer or bovid zoan, but if it's a mythical creature there's some room for a deer with mixed traits.
…looking at Jabra's ears, they actually feel more like deer ears to me too. Even Catviper has very different ears from how I'm used to carnivore ears being drawn.
Sadly I think it's also not expecting Oda to give a female-looking heroic zoan user an "ugly muzzle", though not knowing what species he's meant to be makes it hard to judge (and I guess both the Minks and Ulti already disprove that).
In the next chapter when we saw that Ceaser had missed actually stabbing her heart and the spike was straight up in the ground.
We've been over this.
They haven't reappeared yet, but the outliers for characters like Mr. 9 are 13 years, so they're nowhere near the record holders yet.
Yeah, we've been over this.
And you kinda just skipped over a hint at Vergo being alive. Guess cuz there isn't one.
As far as I'm concerned there hasn't been a reveal so talking as if the ppl who appeared to have died didn't is the incorrect assumption and conclusion.
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There were multiple people who saw ace/whitebeard's deaths coming from a mile away based on story beats. It was obvious whitebeard was going out, and both of them got clear resolutions and finales before passing away.
Kinemon not having any of those (with an unresolved meeting with his wife) already makes his "death" uncertain as heck, and oda will milk the drama out of any forecoming deaths.I'm more willing to put stock in his track record that he will, at best, keep any MC deaths at a all low in this arc.
It's always perplexing to me that ppl forget HOW Oda kills ppl.
Kinnemon currently isn't dead. Just really hurt and thats to be expected.
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So Yamato had no faith in Luffy's ability to take on Kaido unlike the crew? This deal is just getting worse all the time. :ninja:
And Yamato was right.
Cuz he knows something the strawhats don't about Kaido.
This is just common sense man.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Neither does Carrot. I'm not using Yamato's similarity to Chopper as a point against her. So I think it's time to retire that argument against Carrot. If it's not a problem for Yamato, it's not a problem for Carrot.
But there isn't a similarity other than them both being animals.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I think the phrase 'one on one' is incredibly important; However, Yamato was preparing to leave Momo before she knew Luffy was alone.
Yamato was preparing to fight Kaido right after meeting Luffy. Right after he was freed from his explosive shackles.
It's a good thing Yamato wasn't stuck babysitting Momo like Robin did Rebecca in Dressrosa.
@Zik:
Yeah, we've been over this.
And you kinda just skipped over a hint at Vergo being alive. Guess cuz there isn't one.
Vergo's a parent killer so he might actually be done. That's like the one case where Oda doesn't let villains come back and redeem themselves. See both Arlong and Hody.
But, he left himself an out for Monet, so the explosion won't kill her, there's not much reason to believe it'll kill Vergo either. He just needs someone to show up and reassemble him.
Also, please try to multiquote everything you're going to respond to rather than doing multiple post merges, it notifies someone every time you do that if they're anywhere in the chain, and getting 6 notifications for one post is overkill.
Also, please try to multiquote everything you're going to respond to rather than doing multiple post merges, it notifies someone every time you do that if they're anywhere in the chain, and getting 6 notifications for one post is overkill.
Ok.
Wasn't aware of that.
At this point we're stuck in a Bill Murray movie. Brook wont join because they already had a swordsman, Jinbe wont join because he's too strong.
You could literally do that nitpicking with anyone before they joined. I remember once upon a time Franky used to seem very hax back in Water 7 leading up Enies Lobby. Before Diable Jambe and Asura were revealed for that matter for a second there even a Cyborg seemed like it'd mess up the trio dynamic.
Franky can't join because his goons beat up Usopp and he fought Luffy. Luffy would never accept him in the crew.
Exactly, 16 characters.
Franky definitely is too much of a leader to become a strawhat.
So Yamato had no faith in Luffy's ability to take on Kaido unlike the crew? This deal is just getting worse all the time. :ninja:
He's been waiting for Luffy for 2-4 years, but Yamato has only really known him for what, an hour?
Believing that Luffy can win isn't the same as believing he can win without help, much less believing he should have to win without help. Even Luffy started the fight against Kaidou with backup, they've just all had to withdraw to recover and/or to keep Linlin busy.
Yamato's plan has always been to join in the fight against his father. Looking after Momo just delayed his arrival on the battlefield.
I really don't understand how anyone is coming to that conclusion. Like, the first thing you heard before you saw it yourself was "deer" so when you see it you're thinking deer?
Or you first saw it in the spoilers which start with the reveal shot, and left out the leadup?
Because the very first shot we see of it is muzzle. thick lips and sharp teeth, which looks extremely canine.
Is it the horns? If its the horns that's mostly a concession to making the base form look nice. But they're nothing at all like antlers.
The ears, the eyebrows, the mouth, the teeth, the flowing magic hair, the different kind of horns, none of it looks like a deer. At all.
Plus I'm sure Oda will refine it some more as he goes, much like he did with Yamato's base form, and Kaidou's hybrid, which also looked iffy in its first panel.
https://i.ibb.co/tQ0fy61/chopyam.jpg
He looks nothing like Chopper or Minky.
As I said in my original post, obviously Hybrid Mode Yamato doesn't look like Chopper. He doesn't even look like Milky. I'm saying that his hybrid mode looks like another version of a humanoid Deer design. Or a humanoid antelope design. Or a humanoid ram design.
Even if his fruit ends up being a mythical cat or dog model or whatever weird thing Oda is basing this off, the result is a deer-like creature. It has magical extra features like fire coming out of its butt, but in the end it's another deer creature. Be it because it's intentional (Mythical Ushi Ushi no Mi) or because a combination of factors make it so (Yamato's natural horns completing the female Deer impression, despite him not being a deer).
That's my point Robby. We could talk about the small details, like how his ears look exactly like Chopper's when he's fully transformed, but that's not what I'm getting at. I can overlook some similiarities that are bound to happen when we're talking about animal transformations - while we already have a transforming animal on the crew.
It's the fact that during Yamato's creative process, Oda went for a humanoid furry with horns. He had hundreds of different options when it concerns Yamato's transformation, yet he went for a design that thematically overlaps with Chopper on a basic level. Why the hell would he do that? That's what I'm asking myself.
Maybe he will change the design in the next couple chapters. Hell, I already tried to twist that look myself in order to make it work. I'm a make-it-worker, a straw grasper at heart. Even when it concerns theories I'm not fully behind myself (but it's fun to take on the other extreme!).
Like, I can imagine that he will tear out his horns as a last act of rebellion against Kaido. Maybe that would already give him a more distinct feel, thematically. But right now? It's super weird for me.
If anything, answer me this one question, genuinely: would you feel the same if Yamato would be biologically male? An androgynous boy, who transforms into the thing we see here? Would you also say this doesn't hurt his chances at all?
From my perspective, if Kaido didn't believe he handled the two "heads" of the enemy, he wouldn't currently be placing his full focus on Yamato. After Luffy's "defeat" Kaido came to his senses and reached the conclusion that he got too worked up with Luffy and needed to simply cut the head off his enemy and announce his victory. This is why Kaido immediately targeted Momonosuke afterward. If Yamato was still with Momonosuke, he wouldn't have been able to protect Momonosuke and delayed Kaido (Kaido would have continuously targeted Momonosuke which would have split Yamato's focus between Kaido's position and Momonosuke's position). The collateral damage that would have amounted if Kaido was inside the Skull Dome Castle would also be greater than what it currently is. At present, Kaido believes Luffy and Momonosuke are dead and so he is indulging himself in "disciplining" Yamato through his heavy-handed-fatherly love expressed through a beating.
The situation may not have progressed as the Samurai Rebellion would have liked but Yamato was not wrong in choosing to help Luffy by going after Kaido. Yamato now has Kaido's full attention and can use all his abilities to create enough delay until Luffy arrives.
Another problem with the hybrid form is that it doesn't really look like Yamato. It could as well be nami
When I first saw Yamato's Devil Fruit form, it looked like a goat to me. This is likely due to it primarily reminding me of Gotou Haiji from Killing Bites.
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It's the fact that during Yamato's creative process, Oda went for a humanoid furry with horns.
He had hundreds of different options when it concerns Yamato's transformation, yet he went for a design that thematically overlaps with Chopper on a basic level. Why the hell would he do that? That's what I'm asking myself.
Why do Usopp and Brook both have black curly hair? Why did Nami and Robin BOTH grow their hair long over the timeskip? Why do Usopp, Sanji and Jinbe, all have little stubble goatees? Why is it whenever anyone wears arm decorations, be it Usopp, Nami, Robin, or Luffy, its always on their left? ? Why do Luffy, Zoro, CHopper, and Jimbei (and Shanks and Rayleigh) all have scars on their left side? Oda has visual cues and artistic tendencies he leans toward that he likes.
The answer in this case is, likely, because he worried about the human design first, and didn't dwell much on the alternate form until a year later. We don't even know when Oda settled on the fruit though he obviously had something in mind when we first saw the teeth. In human mode the horns make Yamato unique and register as a child of Kaidou. Its been zero issue for a year.
But for all we know he was planning to do a T-Rex then changed his mind on a whim when this one obscure fable came to his attention. It happens. Oda mixes up powers on the fly all the time.
The look he has 95% of the time is more important than what he has briefly. And again, the horns look completely visually distinct from Chopper's antlers, so it doesn't bother me.
Or if you want to be cynical maybe he's thinking about the merchandising and furry characters makes better plushes.
Maybe he will change the design in the next couple chapters.
Given how he modified and tweaked Yamato's main design over the last several months, its easy to see him doing the same with the alt mode.
He's not going to radically change it obviously, but he can refine some things like the face shape or the angles shown or body proportions and it'll come off pretty different. even something like seeing the legs and feet be clearly dog like, or a clearer look at the tail, might help.
Like, I can imagine that he will tear out his horns as a last act of rebellion against Kaido. Maybe that would already give him a more distinct feel, thematically.
Sure, Kaidou can club him in the face. Break one of the horns off and give him a wicked scar, then he'll also look less like Nami. But I don't think that's called for. Heck, breaking off the horns would be MORE like Chopper, not less.
Unless they went for a Zodd thing and just always had a stump there.
If anything, answer me this one question, genuinely: would you feel the same if Yamato would be biologically male? An androgynous boy, who transforms into the thing we see here? Would you also say this doesn't hurt his chances at all?
I was mostly convinced, but was holding out for devil fruit and flashback for a long time but it was settled for me 100% in chapter 1016 a month ago when Yamato declared he was going out to sea with Luffy. After that nothing else mattered, I didn't care what the fruit ended up being (even if, sacrilege, it didn't match the 2.9 joke) . It would have to be something really wrong.
And if it WAS a deer, I'd agree, his chances were done, there'd be no defending that, just an arc ally confirmed..
But he's not. He's some kind of crazy fire wolf. That happens to have horns. (So when we see the full animal form it's going to be distinct too and not just look like, say, Okami.) ANd I happen to really like wolves. ANd Gear 2 is my favorite Luffy mode, I miss it and the trailing steam, so I'm digging it.
I understand that you think the horns are overlapping but they look really, really different.
Kaidos child should obviously have worn a top hat and a white suit and gone by the moniker kaido kid
Yamato interacting with other SHs would have been an easier way to bring out his personality. Instead, everything was business. I must protect Momo or I must beat my dad. It makes sense tho. He has priorities tied to Wano and that comes first.
At this point we're stuck in a Bill Murray movie. Brook wont join because they already had a swordsman, Jinbe wont join because he's too strong.
You could literally do that nitpicking with anyone before they joined. I remember once upon a time Franky used to seem very hax back in Water 7 leading up Enies Lobby. Before Diable Jambe and Asura were revealed for that matter for a second there even a Cyborg seemed like it'd mess up the trio dynamic.
And everyone is going to feel this argument applies to a different character.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Why do Usopp and Brook both have black curly hair? Why did Nami and Robin BOTH grow their hair long over the timeskip? Why do Usopp, Sanji and Jinbe, all have little stubble goatees? Why is it whenever anyone wears arm decorations, be it Usopp, Nami, Robin, or Luffy, its always on their left? ? Why do Luffy, Zoro, CHopper, and Jimbei (and Shanks and Rayleigh) all have scars on their left side? Oda has visual cues and artistic tendencies he leans toward that he likes.
The answer in this case is, likely, because he worried about the human design first, and didn't dwell much on the alternate form until a year later. We don't even know when Oda settled on the fruit though he obviously had something in mind when we first saw the teeth. In human mode the horns make Yamato unique and register as a child of Kaidou. Its been zero issue for a year.
But for all we know he was planning to do a T-Rex then changed his mind on a whim when this one obscure fable came to his attention. It happens. Oda mixes up powers on the fly all the time.
The look he has 95% of the time is more important than what he has briefly. And again, the horns look completely visually distinct from Chopper's antlers, so it doesn't bother me.
Or if you want to be cynical maybe he's thinking about the merchandising and furry characters makes better plushes.
Given how he modified and tweaked Yamato's main design over the last several months, its easy to see him doing the same with the alt mode.
He's not going to radically change it obviously, but he can refine some things like the face shape or the angles shown or body proportions and it'll come off pretty different. even something like seeing the legs and feet be clearly dog like might help.
Sure, Kaidou can club him in the face. Break one of the horns off and give him a wicked scar, then he'll also look less like Nami. But I don't think that's called for. Heck, breaking off the horns would be MORE like Chopper, not less.
Unless they went for a Zodd thing and just always had a stump there.
I was mostly convinced, but was holding out for devil fruit and flashback for a long time but it was settled for me 100% in chapter 1016 a month ago when Yamato declared he was going out to sea with Luffy. After that nothing else mattered, I didn't care what the fruit ended up being (even if, sacrilege, it didn't match the 2.9 joke) . It would have to be something really wrong.
And if it WAS a deer, I'd agree, his chances were done, there'd be no defending that, just an arc ally confirmed..
But he's not. He's some kind of crazy fire wolf. That happens to have horns. (So when we see the full animal form it's going to be distinct too and not just look like, say, Okami.) ANd I happen to really like wolves. ANd Gear 2 is my favorite Luffy mode, I miss it and the trailing steam, so I'm digging it.
I understand that you think the horns are overlapping but they look really, really different.
I just don't think there's any logical consistency to defending Yamato's hybrid form not being too similar to Chopper while using that same argument against Carrot. I think you have to pick one.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I just don't think there's any logical consistency to defending Yamato's hybrid form not being too similar to Chopper while using that same argument against Carrot. I think you have to pick one.
Carrot and Chopper have the exact same face. Same round eyes, nose, mouth, rounded jawline.
That stops being an issue when either of them transform, as all those features change, but in their base modes, that we see 95% of the time, she looks like his sister. And even more so when Carrot wore her hat.
Same reason Yamato having Nami-face was a completely valid complaint the first few chapters before Oda tweaked the design a bit, and THE main reason I didn't go in on him joining the first few months.