@Johnny:
It also has the noteable side-effect of turning Momo naked once he re-transforms, which never happens with anyone else.
Didn't that only happen in his first transformation?
@Johnny:
It also has the noteable side-effect of turning Momo naked once he re-transforms, which never happens with anyone else.
Didn't that only happen in his first transformation?
So is Kaido and yamato tough skin come from their devil fruit or their bloodline?
So far Momo dont have that kind of toughness.
We already saw 1 guy with crazy tough body/skin back on Dressrosa, Kelly Funk.
I expect its the exact same with Kaido, and Yamato has inherited it frm him.
But the really interesting part is that Kaido's Bloodline Elements specifically were used to create Momo's fruit. While we knew all the way back in Punk Hazard that Bloodline Elements were a factor in artificial devil fruit creation, we didn't know how direct that was. And this has implications! Firstly, devil fruits alter the user genetically on such a level that the fruit can be recreated from their blood. Good to know. Think about how Big Mom got her fruit from eating Mother Carmel. Does eating a fruit make a person on some level become the fruit for that to work? What about Blackbeard's ability to use his gravity to remove a fruit entirely - not just block the ability to activate powers like seastone or hit a true body despite transformations like haki, but remove even one-time transformations like Luffy's. What exactly is his power pulling on to make that work? And what does it mean for his ability to steal powers and use multiple powers? What about how people can't eat two devil fruits at once? Suppose the human genome can withstand one devil fruit mutation (which is essentially what they are, apparently), but a second alteration changes your genetics too far beyond humanity to continue functioning. Look at Judge using Bloodline Elements to give his kids superpowers, or how Vegapunk was able to replicate Kizaru's lasers. How much of that do you think came from copying devil fruit genetics? The implications!
Yes! Lots to think about! Good read!
The Live Floor is a mess, lots of names in one tiny place, this would be a good chance for Apoo to turn coat and call the remaining Numbers to fight for the allies.
The Numbers would be cleaning this mess.
We already saw 1 guy with crazy tough body/skin back on Dressrosa, Kelly Funk.
I expect its the exact same with Kaido, and Yamato has inherited it frm him.
Wasn't Kelly the shrimp with the bad attitude and his brother the guy who was born strong
There were a lot of complaining about the cliffhanger this week, but thinking about it I think it's pretty clever as such.
While nobody seems to think that's just Oden with no strings attached, there are a bunch of different powers people are speculating about that could be behind this. And the cool thing about that: Oda had every one of these solutions appear in this very arc.
Kanjuro unveiled his powers at the start of the raid.
We got to see Onimaru transform in Act 2.
Toki's time power got introduced at the start of the arc.
The flashback showed Higurashi as the previous owner of the Mane Mane no Mi.
And Caterina Devon showcased her transformation in Act 1's arc break.
Like, I don't think it's Devon or Bon Clay at all - because that makes no real sense - but I find it pretty cool that those powers appeared not so long ago, so it would still be on many reader's mind.
There were a lot of complaining about the cliffhanger this week, but thinking about it I think it's pretty clever as such.
While nobody seems to think that's just Oden with no strings attached, there are a bunch of different powers people are speculating about that could be behind this. And the cool thing about that: Oda had every one of these solutions appear in this very arc.
Kanjuro unveiled his powers at the start of the raid.
We got to see Onimaru transform in Act 2.
Toki's time power got introduced at the start of the arc.
The flashback showed Higurashi as the previous owner of the Mane Mane no Mi.
And Caterina Devon showcased her transformation in Act 1's arc break.Like, I don't think it's Devon or Bon Clay at all - because that makes no real sense - but I find it pretty cool that those powers appeared not so long ago, so it would still be on many reader's mind.
Don't forget the whole "spirits of the dead celebrated at the fire festival" part. Oda planted lots of seeds to eff with us this time. What are the chances that none of them are correct and everyone is forgetting something massive?
Like Caribou morphing his swamp body into the shape of Oden and covering the relevant parts in correctly colored junk that he has stored in him?
Momo's involuntary transformations almost always come at moments where he is experiencing great fear or uncertainty in himself, it feels to me that the dragon form is a visual metaphor of his fears and inferiority complex (which is logical given how much he fears Kaido, and how inferior he feels both to him and his father).
I think the key to him properly using the dragon form is him conquering his fears and getting over his inferiority complex, which will probably happen at the climax of this arc.
Yup, that's exactly what it's going to take for him to pull through in the finale.
I guess the question is, if involuntary transformations aren't what makes the fruit a failure, then what does? Or at least, what made Vegapunk think that it was? And if he knew that it wasn't, why lie about it? He's gone on to create arguably more dangerous/abuseable weapons for the Government, like the Pacifistas, so I don't know if it would be to keep it out of their hands.
Yup, that's exactly what it's going to take for him to pull through in the finale.
I guess the question is, if involuntary transformations aren't what makes the fruit a failure, then what does? Or at least, what made Vegapunk think that it was? And if he knew that it wasn't, why lie about it? He's gone on to create arguably more dangerous/abuseable weapons for the Government, like the Pacifistas, so I don't know if it would be to keep it out of their hands.
Watch Vegapunk end up being such a perfectionist that the smallest imperfections in his experiments send him into a melodramatic depression. He probably got mad he couldn't recreate the authentic swirls of the real devil fruit. He saw them circles and threw his chalk board out the window.
Or the color of the devil fruit was different than the original.
So which two swords is Oden carrying. If it is the fox then one of them could be Hiyori's and the other Shusui? The fox would have had access to both.
It also made remember that I think one of Zoro's swords gets broken. And that it would be a disservice for one of the legendary blacksmiths of Wano not to forge him a blade.
@K.:
Or the color of the devil fruit was different than the original.
So which two swords is Oden carrying. If it is the fox then one of them could be Hiyori's and the other Shusui? The fox would have had access to both.
It also made remember that I think one of Zoro's swords gets broken. And that it would be a disservice for one of the legendary blacksmiths of Wano not to forge him a blade.
Zoro lost a sword at the end of Enies Lobby and replaced it with Shusui in Thriller Bark. Now he is replacing Shusui with Enma, which is the most powerful sword Zoro has had the chance to wield and can grow even stronger.
Obviously he can never replace Wado Ichimonji or else his origin story/dream is dead.
He also wields Sandai Kitetsu, while Luffy borrowed Nidai Kitetsu from Hitetsu, but I don't see Zoro upgrading to the Nidai either. If anything, Hitetsu will give him Shodai Kitetsu, his sword, or make him one.
What is the chance that Toki can go to alternate timeline and bring Oden to the future current timeline. The side effect maybe it is just for a short time. Like it is less cruel then having Onimaru created fake Oden just to boost morale. Oda may have alternate timeline concept in his mind at least what he showed us in SBS for how the Strawhat crew appearance look alike in the future.
If "Oden" is past Oden being flung into the future, here's a possible explanation: you can only time travel to the future normally, but if Toki stays in a given timeline, she can fling someone else to the future and act as an anchor to summon that person back to the past. In other words, as long as she doesn't time-travel herself, she can bring back things she sent to the future. That would explain a lot (Toki sent Oden several times until he found the proper moment of Kaido's defeat, then Oden told her it would happen with nine people defeating Kaido in 20 years), but the fake swords are hard to explain in that way. Why would he ditch his signature weapons?
The craziest explanation, thought, would be Oden being the real one flung to the future (via the method I explained earlier), while the shadow is Toki, also traveling to the future, but after Oden's death and her delivered prophecy, acting on knowledge gained from her husband's time traveling shenanigans.
Second to Imu time travel is probably the worst choice OP has gone with
If "Oden" is past Oden being flung into the future, here's a possible explanation: you can only time travel to the future normally, but if Toki stays in a given timeline, she can fling someone else to the future and act as an anchor to summon that person back to the past. In other words, as long as she doesn't time-travel herself, she can bring back things she sent to the future. That would explain a lot (Toki sent Oden several times until he found the proper moment of Kaido's defeat, then Oden told her it would happen with nine people defeating Kaido in 20 years), but the fake swords are hard to explain in that way. Why would he ditch his signature weapons?
The craziest explanation, thought, would be Oden being the real one flung to the future (via the method I explained earlier), while the shadow is Toki, also traveling to the future, but after Oden's death and her delivered prophecy, acting on knowledge gained from her husband's time traveling shenanigans.
Toki was explicit that "mankind cannot return to the past".
She also said that she kept travelling further into the future hoping to stumble into someone to help her, meaning she has no way to know what awaits ahead.
And I doubt she would be one of those "Well, actually… technically speaking..." kinda person.
Toki was explicit that "mankind cannot return to the past".
She also said that she kept travelling further into the future hoping to stumble into someone to help her, meaning she has no way to know what awaits ahead.
And I doubt she would be one of those "Well, actually… technically speaking..." kinda person.
Well, she wouldn't be throwing anything "to the past", she'd be bringing it back "to the present".
Under that theory, she can't go to the future herself and then travel back. But, if she sends someone else to the future, she would be able to bring that same time-displaced person back to her present moment.
This could be why she was searching for someone's help, she just couldn't do it alone.
Obviously, this is just a theory, and I myself subscribe to the idea that this is just an ink clone by Kanjuro and has no relation to the person who helped the Scabbards (which I think/hope is Hiyori). But it is in line with Toki's stated limitations and has enough of a loophole in the rules to be possible.
Maan, this just reinforces the idea that Oda should have never introduced Time Travel to the story.
It just makes everything unnecessarily convoluted.
But now that its here, I agree, it has to play a significant role. Toki is still very much an underdeveloped character. We still don't fully understand her motivations for going to Wano.
So can we throw the idea that "Onimaru ate a mythical Daruma DF" to the trash bin?
Maan, this just reinforces the idea that Oda should have never introduced Time Travel to the story.
It just makes everything unnecessarily convoluted.
But now that its here, I agree, it has to play a significant role. Toki is still very much an underdeveloped character. We still don't fully understand her motivations for going to Wano.
People trying to find loopholes around the very clear restriction of being unable to travel back in time is on them, not Oda lol
Vegapunk met oden during his adventures at sea, extracted his lineage factor and made the oden oden no mi and this person from 1007 has the fruit power. Oden got the ghost ghost no mi before he died, similar to brook that turns him into ghost upon death.
The whole lineage factor can replicate peoples power thing feels like it plays in to Vegapunks secret weapon
So can we throw the idea that "Onimaru ate a mythical Daruma DF" to the trash bin?
Why? "Oden" being Onimaru is a way more far-fetched idea than that one.
Wait at least until this Oden mystery is solved.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Maan, this just reinforces the idea that Oda should have never introduced Time Travel to the story.
It just makes everything unnecessarily convoluted.
But now that its here, I agree, it has to play a significant role. Toki is still very much an underdeveloped character. We still don't fully understand her motivations for going to Wano.
I agree. I hate time travel, it most often ruins stories that aren't based around time paradoxes.
But if this Oden is fake, Toki can still be relevant while saving the story from overcomplication.
Well, she wouldn't be throwing anything "to the past", she'd be bringing it back "to the present".
Under that theory, she can't go to the future herself and then travel back. But, if she sends someone else to the future, she would be able to bring that same time-displaced person back to her present moment.
This could be why she was searching for someone's help, she just couldn't do it alone.
Obviously, this is just a theory, and I myself subscribe to the idea that this is just an ink clone by Kanjuro and has no relation to the person who helped the Scabbards (which I think/hope is Hiyori). But it is in line with Toki's stated limitations and has enough of a loophole in the rules to be possible.
Sorry, but that just sounds nonsense. She's still making mankind return to the past in that case.
That's impossible according to herself. If she was capable of such, I'm sure she would've explained it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The whole lineage factor can replicate peoples power thing feels like it plays in to Vegapunks secret weapon
Get ready for the Kaido Pacifistas.
Likely alcohol-fueled.
He took the drunken mood swings of Kaido, the chopped off arm of Shanks, the easy amnesia of BM and the jolly fatness of Blacky to make the ultimate, but oddly specific, life form
Sorry, but that just sounds nonsense. She's still making mankind return to the past in that case.
That's impossible according to herself. If she was capable of such, I'm sure she would've explained it.
Technically, she would be returning them to her present, not to the past. And only those she sent to the future in the first place, not anyone who exists in the future. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable loophole to me.
If it is TRUE Oden, I can't shake my cynical thought that Oda wrote himself into a corner by overhyping Kaido, then realized that Kaido can't be beaten by Luffy and co. alone, so he re-inserts Oden to defeat Kaido. It screams Naruto's Kaguya to me IMO.
All the narrations of Akazaya Nine's struggles would have to be thrown out, also why bother to draw Oden's glorious flashback (and badass "death" scene) if the dude himself is still alive and kicking?
Why bother to boast that the new generation will kick old generation's ass, if in the end it's the same old generation dude kicking another old generation's dude drunken ass?
So I hope it is FAKE Oden, however the mechanic is.
@uniaka:
Vegapunk met oden during his adventures at sea, extracted his lineage factor and made the oden oden no mi and this person from 1007 has the fruit power. Oden got the ghost ghost no mi before he died, similar to brook that turns him into ghost upon death.
Oh God, Yamato is gonna MURDER that person who ate the Oden fruit. They will personally drag them to Blackbeard to make him extract the fruit and eat it.
If it is TRUE Oden, I can't shake my cynical thought that Oda wrote himself into a corner by overhyping Kaido, then realized that Kaido can't be beaten by Luffy and co. alone, so he re-inserts Oden to defeat Kaido. It screams Naruto's Kaguya to me IMO.
I get where you're coming from but I don't see any logical reason for Oda to feel written into a corner. Oden's abilities rested in his superhuman strength, advanced Armament and master swordfighting skills. Luffy and Zoro have those in spades, once they crank it up to what's decisively Oden's level and with the help of Law, Kid and Killer things should get cooking.
Like it is less cruel then having Onimaru created fake Oden just to boost morale.
In the mind of a Fox, that's an uber nice thing to do.
So it's safe to say that the Raid Suits were made using Devil Fruits' lineage factor (hence the familiar powers)?
Technically, she would be returning them to her present, not to the past. And only those she sent to the future in the first place, not anyone who exists in the future. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable loophole to me.
"Mankind cannot return to the past, only travel further into the future" is very clear. It's supposed to say travel backwards in any form is impossible. Because then the future becomes the present, and she's now in the past. It would still contradict the words of the person who held the fruit for literal centuries.
I'm sure Oda would've not introduced it this way, especially to prevent such a glaring contradiction.
May be the Oden they are seeing is of the time when he was on Raftel. There might be some thing on Raftel which allows some one to briefly visit future. Hence the prophecy of nine people and Roger's wait for some one. Roger on future might also have briefly visited future and met strawhats (of future i.e post-wano timeline).
I still think Oden being Kanjuro's doing would be the best solution. it'd make sense for him to change sides once he found out of Orochi's fate, I think the Kurozumi deseprately need a redemption arc or we'll be stuck with the "Bloodline genocided for being evil but being actually evil so it was kinda ok in the end", and him making a "tribute" of sorts to Oden can be nice on it's own.
Drawing him is a reasonable thing to come as the first idea to gain their trust for him, and on the account of him being left for dead outside tha castle, we all know all too well that being cut open by steel sword is but a minor inconvenience in this world.
The problem with this theory is that 1. He wouldn't have a reason to bother and drawing new swords instead of his original ones 2.The silhouette from a couple chapters ago doesn't match him nor oden.
The fox remains the most likely one, but why oden? just to motivate them? i mean they of all people should know that oden died 20 years ago, but this oden seems determined to pose as the real thing and not a ghost of anything, so they're bound to be skeptical.
I don't see many more solutions that wouldn't be complete asspulls, sincerely. And resolving a very cheap cliffhanger, that by the way completely overshadowed a Strawhat's spotlight moment, with an asspull, would be even less forgivable.
@All:
So it's safe to say that the Raid Suits were made using Devil Fruits' lineage factor (hence the familiar powers)?
The way I understand it, the "lineage factor" is a bioengineering tool (like CRISPR). Vinsmoke Judge used it to create designer babies, Vegapunk and Caesar created fruits with it that work like magical steroids.
Since it's a biological tool I don't see how you could apply it to the Raid suits, so I assume that's just really good, "old fashioned" technology.
Different case could be the Pacifista. Up until this point I just assumed Vegapunk invented laser weaponry because he could study Kizaru up close, but since the Pacifista are mindwiped/altered Frankensteins it may be also related to the Laf.
The way I understand it, the "lineage factor" is a bioengineering tool (like CRISPR). Vinsmoke Judge used it to create designer babies, Vegapunk and Caesar created fruits with it that work like magical steroids.
Since it's a biological tool I don't see how you could apply it to the Raid suits, so I assume that's just really good, "old fashioned" technology.Different case could be the Pacifista. Up until this point I just assumed Vegapunk invented laser weaponry because he could study Kizaru up close, but since the Pacifista are mindwiped/altered Frankensteins it may be also related to the Laf.
But we know objects can get DF powers, so it's not unconceivable that DF powers could be replicated in the suits.
But we know objects can get DF powers, so it's not unconceivable that DF powers could be replicated in the suits.
I guess that could be the case, but the fact that every DF-creature is a Zoan (and the artificial fruits are also all Zoan) makes it less likely that the suit abilities are related.
A very needed chapter for Chopper. Wano's doing a lot to correct post-timeskip issues, Chopper REALLY needed a big moment, and he finally finally got one. He's undoubtedly crucial to the cause of both the general army using his doctor skills, and he also damaged a Yonkou Commander. Which thankfully is feasible enough in Monster Point. This gives Chopper at least these moments here, and also another overlooked one where he saves Luffy's life in 951. So his achievements are starting to rack up, which is great. This lets me once again reiterate that if Oda's neglecting something, he'll eventually bring it back, it just may take forever. So this gives me faith that he'll do characters like Smoker justice even though I will admit he would have had a WAY easier job had he just included Smoker again before Wano's conclusion (and just altered Smoker's travelling destination until later).
The tweest. It ain't Oden, my bet's on Kanjuro (probably people's first bet).
I will say though, I'm 99% certain this is a volume 100 chapter. My expectations will only grow higher the closer we get to the end, and while this chapter was great and needed, I don't think it was quite volume 100 worthy. Just short of it, I'll say, needed a little more oomph.
I will say though, I'm 99% certain this is a volume 100 chapter. My expectations will only grow higher the closer we get to the end, and while this chapter was great and needed, I don't think it was quite volume 100 worthy. Just short of it, I'll say, needed a little more oomph.
Volume 100 probably started in Chapter 1,005, so Robin getting a fight, Marco holding King and Queen, and now this are all in Volume 100.
Volume 99 hasn't been announced yet, but 995-1,004 is most likely. 995 had Tama's comeback, 1,004 had the gifter conversion provided by her, so it fits.
Volume 100 probably started in Chapter 1,005, so Robin getting a fight, Marco holding King and Queen, and now this are all in Volume 100.
Volume 99 hasn't been announced yet, but 995-1,004 is most likely. 995 had Tama's comeback, 1,004 had the gifter conversion provided by her, so it fits.
We've gotten needed character moments for sure, particularly for Straw Hats put on the backburner.
I just want a few bombshell chapters and one major one for One Piece as a whole, this is volume 100. :P My expectations are probably too high but we'll see. Gotta get through Jinbe's moment next then hopefully we're in the Hybrid reveal to start with. In the same way chapter 1000 was important for the series as a whole though, I similarly want that for 100, so I'm hoping for more events that impact more than Wano.
If Oda times it right he could get the intermission in here, and that'd be the perfect time for more 956/957 world reveals.
Oden is actually just a shared mass hallucination among the scabbards. They're all tripping on magical mushrooms. The person that was "treating" them was just drugging them. You guys and your time travel…
We've gotten needed character moments for sure, particularly for Straw Hats put on the backburner.
I just want a few bombshell chapters and one major one for One Piece as a whole, this is volume 100. :P My expectations are probably too high but we'll see. Gotta get through Jinbe's moment next then hopefully we're in the Hybrid reveal to start with. In the same way chapter 1000 was important for the series as a whole though, I similarly want that for 100, so I'm hoping for more events that impact more than Wano.
If Oda times it right he could get the intermission in here, and that'd be the perfect time for more 956/957 world reveals.
I agree wholeheartedly!
There's still 7 chapters, maybe even 8, to go with Volume 100. Plenty of chances for awesomeness.
People have already summarized well the reasons why this "Oden" shouldn't be the real one.
However, I could accept him to be the real Kozuki Oden under the condition that he's a ghost and his ability to manifest himself is limited.
No time-travelling nonsense, and absolutely no fighting between him and Kaido.
While we don't know if ghosts exist in the One Piece world (outside of Brook's DF), there are spirit-like beings like the Klabautermann. It wouldn't be too big of a stretch to say that through exceptional willpower, the spirits of the dead can manifest themselves for a a short time and with very limited ability to perform physical acts.
It's definitely Kanjuro! Expecting a Squard level betrayal panel soon.
#WhopperSzn
I bet we will see Kaido's hybrid form next chapter and this fake Oden plot will be dangling around next couple of weeks.
Just wanted to post my feelings I had while in bed. Kawamatsu seeing the person is supposed to remind us of hiyori. then we get oden right afterward. If oden is a fakeout, what do we make of the earlier character? Is oda inviting us to look surface level and expect hiyori or to consider that person as toki? I think this chapter certainly made sense of the use of a silhouette regardless.
Onimaru first healed them by disguising as Toki and now encouraging them as Oden.:ninja:
Or Kanjuro feeling sundre…
The way I understand it, the "lineage factor" is a bioengineering tool (like CRISPR). Vinsmoke Judge used it to create designer babies, Vegapunk and Caesar created fruits with it that work like magical steroids.
Since it's a biological tool I don't see how you could apply it to the Raid suits, so I assume that's just really good, "old fashioned" technology.Different case could be the Pacifista. Up until this point I just assumed Vegapunk invented laser weaponry because he could study Kizaru up close, but since the Pacifista are mindwiped/altered Frankensteins it may be also related to the Laf.
It's likely that the fire, electricity, poison thing is created directly on the vinsmokes with the lineage factor instead of the suit, since they can use it with their mouths and eyes. Like when raiju sucked the poison out of luffy's mouth, yonji seems to be cyborg, ichiji shoots lasers out of his eyes like superman. And sanji has the only raid suit that is technology made as in the invisibility comes from the suit because it projects the environment on the suit, for the others it only gives them flight and the cape shield. As in they didn't need the lineage factor of Absalom for sanji, since you can make stealth even with normal technology. But shooting lasers, poison thing sure seems like you would need to get the lineage factor from magellan and enel, ace, kizaru.
Btw, this proofs that Franky is the real genius in terms of cyborg technology, because vegapunk used Kizaru's lineage factor to make pacifistas shoots lasers, but franky made something else.