Well I guess that’s something
Yeah that was a really wholesome offpanel-moment. Franky basically took his job, but Usopp is still responsible for that one thing. I would have loved to see it in a real flashback, maybe the anime can deliver here.
Well I guess that’s something
Yeah that was a really wholesome offpanel-moment. Franky basically took his job, but Usopp is still responsible for that one thing. I would have loved to see it in a real flashback, maybe the anime can deliver here.
Usopp's vision actually complements his long-range skill set. It makes no sense for a non-long-range fighter like Carrot to fill a job like that when Usopp both already does it adequately as it is, and then can unilaterally and autonomously react to it because he's equipped and capable of doing so.
Again did Franky ever act as a helmsman while Jinbei was around? Cause Carrot was literally present when Usopp did “her job” for her
You do realize that your logic only works if Carrot was introduced as the "Lookout" and part of the SH crew, right? Carrot isn't an official lookout on the crew, so it's not her role yet. Jinbe is now the official helmsman, so of course Franky won't be in the position.
But the point with Usopp is that, SH's are the best among the crew at what they do, so while Nami knows vitamin C is good for scurvy during navigation, her knowledge in medicine is nothing compared to Chopper's.
Any SH will know how to make a soup, but only Sanji is a Class S cheff, Chopper and Franky know how to swing a helm but cannot drive a ship into a tide like Jinbro does.
Luffy and Usopp might like to sing, but are nothing close to be actual musicians, Brook himself knows how to cut with a sword but defintely can't dice a mountain-sized golem with it.That's the thing here, Usopp is a major obstacle for Carrot because he has that superior CoO Carrot has nothing to compete with, and we were just proven that Usopp will be the very first option to do Lookout activities as long as he's present.
Yet Dressrosa and even the beginning of the raid proved that Usopp needs visual aids from time to time (in the forms of Viola and binoculars respectively). So that's not completely accurate.
You do realize that your logic only works if Carrot was introduced as the "Lookout" and part of the SH crew, right? Carrot isn't an official lookout on the crew, so it's not her role yet. Jinbe is now the official helmsman, so of course Franky won't be in the position.
No I don’t agree with that logic at all, I don’t know why this is supposed to be obvious, they need to officially announce there in that role otherwise it doesn’t count?
No I don’t agree with that logic at all, I don’t know why this is supposed to be obvious, they need to officially announce there in that role otherwise it doesn’t count?
I mean, Jinbe was asked back on Fishman island to join despite not having an immediately known role amongst the crew. Just that his connection and relationship with Luffy was strong enough to warrant him membership. He later meets up with the Sanji Retrieval Team again in Whole Cake Island and even publicly denounces his allegiance with the BM Pirates and how he now serves Straw Hat Luffy. It took till escaping Whole Cake Island and a tidal wave for Jinbe to reveal that he's gonna be their helmsman after 880+ chapters without a need for one.
I'm not saying the logic is flawless, but the helmsman role didn't become obvious till the plot demanded it. And since his return and official introduction as the Straw Hat's helmsman back in Chapter 976 he's officially taken over that role.
So yeah…
I haven't seen Tama perform a role on the actual ship, yet Carrot performing as lookout throughout WCI arc doesn't qualify as a role because Usopp (who sings and has done repairs) cancels it out. Before and during Franky's tenure, Usopp continues to do shipwright like duties. I keep seeing double standards and contradictions.
Yet Dressrosa and even the beginning of the raid proved that Usopp needs visual aids from time to time (in the forms of Viola and binoculars respectively). So that's not completely accurate.
His supreme CoO is still in development, but even in that stage, Carrot doesn't have any better skill to overperform Usopp.
I mean, Jinbe was asked back on Fishman island to join despite not having an immediately known role amongst the crew. Just that his connection and relationship with Luffy was strong enough to warrant him membership. He later meets up with the Sanji Retrieval Team again in Whole Cake Island and even publicly denounces his allegiance with the BM Pirates and how he now serves Straw Hat Luffy. It took till escaping Whole Cake Island and a tidal wave for Jinbe to reveal that he's gonna be their helmsman after 880+ chapters without a need for one.
I'm not saying the logic is flawless, but the helmsman role didn't become obvious till the plot demanded it. And since his return and official introduction as the Straw Hat's helmsman back in Chapter 976 he's officially taken over that role.
So yeah…
But my point is, was there any scene with Jinbei on the Ship surrounded by the other Straw Hats where he did not act as the helmsman? Outside of the one time he purposely got caught on Fishman Island since he obviously couldn't get caught as planned and and steer the ship at the same time
Show me one example where:Jinbei was on the ship and didn't steer it and then let another Straw Hat do it without something distracting him, that would be extremely similar to Carrot being needed as a lookout but letting Usopp do it instead
if you can find said example, which totally could exist for all I know, I don't remember every panel of the story and Jinbei's been around for a long time, I'll concede that my argument is flawed
not that it will change my mind about the lookout thing, it seems really silly to me even though I am on the fence about Carrot joining I think if Oda does do it, he'll find something better for her to do
But my point is, was there any scene with Jinbei on the Ship surrounded by the other Straw Hats where he did not act as the helmsman? Outside of the one time he purposely got caught on Fishman Island since he obviously couldn't get caught as planned and and steer the ship at the same time
Show me one example where:Jinbei was on the ship and didn't steer it and then let another Straw Hat do it without something distracting him, that would be extremely similar to Carrot being needed as a lookout but letting Usopp do it instead
if you can find said example, which totally could exist for all I know, I don't remember every panel of the story and Jinbei's been around for a long time, I'll concede that my argument is flawed
not that it will change my mind about the lookout thing, it seems really silly to me even though I am on the fence about Carrot joining I think if Oda does do it, he'll find something better for her to do
That was my point. Jinbe wasn't a member then at all. He didn't steer the ship because he wasn't their helmsman or even their crewmate. It wasn't till the circumstances that led them to flee Whole Cake Island for him to become said helmsman and by then he had officially became Luffy's subordinate. That was the point of my argument.
No I don’t agree with that logic at all, I don’t know why this is supposed to be obvious, they need to officially announce there in that role otherwise it doesn’t count?
Only a handful of people around here back on FI said that Jinbe will be the helmsman (including myself). People then were making the same argument that you are now about the crew not needing the role or someone else being able to do it just as well. Here were are now where Jinbe has been officially recognized as the helmsman. While "lookout" isn't an official role yet, it's what Carrot was featured doing a dozen times on WCI (a position she inherited from Pedro, just like his will). Oda doesn't makes mistakes like that.
Like I said, the position is 100% plot-based. She sees what Oda would want her to see. Usopp doesn't hang out in the crow's nest. He's usually doing something else. Her role would be to be in the crow's nest most of the time and call out things that would then snap the crew into action. I don't know why people are having such a hard time understanding that. Things aren't important until Oda wants them to be. See the 800+ chapters without a helmsman for reference.
His supreme CoO is still in development, but even in that stage, Carrot doesn't have any better skill to overperform Usopp.
CoO works in different ways. His allows him to see the "auras" of other people. Different skills lend hand in hand to others. Viola in that instance acted as Usopp's spotter till his Observation Haki kicked in. Not saying his vision is inferior, but he's not always going to be looking out from the ship, especially if he's manning the cannons.
I'm just trying to justify Zoro being there as almost nothing but muscle, him being a ship guard (even by accident) a good deal of the time has been pretty useful so far.
Yeah, Zoro "did" his job. He was useful. Zoro's presense is that of a sleeping monster. Don't wake the monster first if your target is the ship. Franky Family made that mistake. Plus Zoro is the man that cut a boat HE WAS ON in half. His skillset is pretty damn dangerous to be protecting a ship.
So if Kaku wanted, he could have destroyed Going Merry and Zoro would have let it happen. But since Kaku was undercover and not concerned with the Strawhats at the time, he gave no fs.
As to Yamato, like I said, I don't know yet but I suspect it would be something we didn't see coming, like Robin, where it's more story-relevant than necessarily ship duty related. A sole daughter of a Yonkou has got to have something along those lines, one would think (compared to Big Mom's brood where none of them is really anything special compared to the others, at least in her eyes).
What's the likelihood that Oda is going to drop another "Robin like" role that is plot driven for the next/last crewmate? Astronomer is the only plot driven position I can think that could fit Yamato's potential position. The whole Kozuki moon vibe would have to be explored through Yamato trying to be Oden…doesn't seem likely to me. My bet is something that's officially what the Strawhats don't have or strongly hinted. Ship Guard. Lookout. Astronomer. The list is slim. Usopp and/or Robin are arguably better Chroniclers than Yamato from my initial impression. What other roles are there?
Yeah, Zoro "did" his job. He was useful. Zoro's presense is that of a sleeping monster. Don't wake the monster first if your target is the ship. Franky Family made that mistake. Plus Zoro is the man that cut a boat HE WAS ON in half. His skillset is pretty damn dangerous to be protecting a ship.
So if Kaku wanted, he could have destroyed Going Merry and Zoro would have let it happen. But since Kaku was undercover and not concerned with the Strawhats at the time, he gave no fs.
What's the likelihood that Oda is going to drop another "Robin like" role that is plot driven for the next/last crewmate? Astronomer is the only plot driven position I can think that could fit Yamato's potential position. The whole Kozuki moon vibe would have to be explored through Yamato trying to be Oden…doesn't seem likely to me. My bet is something that's officially what the Strawhats don't have or strongly hinted. Ship Guard. Lookout. Astronomer. The list is slim. Usopp and/or Robin are arguably better Chroniclers than Yamato from my initial impression. What other roles are there?
Well if it's a ship's guard, and a dedicated position at that, seems like Yamato is a good fit for that. Being Oden, wanting to leave the confines of Wano and sail with a notorious crew who's going to go all over the world and all the way to Laugh Tale, seems like a safe bet. Plus you'd want someone who looks intimidating and someone who looks like a girl-Kaido is probably that in their universe.
I don't think either Carrot or Yamato will join but if one must then I'll take Carrot. As lackluster as she is, at least I won't confuse her for anyone else in the crew.
@__garonne__ if you're still on, your prophecy may or may not come true. Coronavirus may have pushed back some plans.
! Quick hot take from Vol. 6 of Nakama Thread - September 27th, 2017
! > im surprised you guys are so adamant about carrot not joining the crew. the moment carrot randomly hopped aboard the ship with pedro i thought she would join. you'd be hard pressed to find another person who randomly tagged along with the strawhats with no forewarning. johnny and yas were acquainted with zoro, vivi was being helped, kinemon was being helped, the drawing samurai (forgot his name) was tagging along with kinemon, robin was not expected to be on the ship and was a random occurrence, hatchan and caime were acquaintances before hand. carrot is almost an anomaly with her randomness aboard the ship.so now, we look at hindsight. why is she there? she kinda served no purpose at first and she's not driving the story in any sense. Then we have pedro's "dream". he met gol roger and from what he knows of the past he can past on that dream to carrot. carrot is with us from zou, to totland and then to wano. zou was a short arc which gave us an introduction, totland has shown us some of her mannerism and a backstory and wano will drive it home. if it was just the emotional connection to pedro, someone who was more prominent in zou could have played that part, in fact wando would have been perfect if it was just the emotional attachment. we see how carrot will play apart in the hijinks of the crew and yall have mentioned that she's too like chopper and haven't shown her own uniqueness. we can already see her uniqueness but youre choosing to see otherwise. she's similar to chopper yes but so is zoro similar to robin. so is brook similar to sanji and we didnt get backstories and fleshed out characters with nami or robin to several arcs later.
now, if you say nami and robin had shown early characteristics i'd employ you to go back and reread alabasta. she wasn''t that morbid. or if you look at jinbe in marineford/amazon lilly we didnt see his quirk until fishman island. so yea, i think whats happened is only strengthening her joining the crew. we won't know until after wano so we'll know 3 years from now. jesus thats a long fucking ways, 2020 ::shivers::
I implore you guys to read some of the old threads of this discussion. Some users have had some pretty silly hot takes. Including these regarding Jinbe in the Volume 5 Nakama Thread:
! In response to @__Vongola_Boss_XI__ saying that the last 2 SH would be Jinbe and Vivi.
! > That won't happen.Vivi and Jinbei have their own lives outside the Straw-hats.
! A poster responding to that.
! > I totally agree with you. But there are quite a number of blind Jinbei fans on this forum. But judging by the polls, I'm glad the majority of ppl who visited this thread is rational.well, that guy was just saying he wanted to see Jinbei and Vivi to join, there is nothing wrong in having preferences. Yea I know what you mean, there are worse ones out there.
It's arguable what Jinbei will do after this saga. His loyalty stays with island, the people. During the 2yr timeskip he still stayed near the island, but hidden from public knowledge. If fisherman island is going to be destroyed with the implication that the Noah will carry all the residents above ground, I'm more inclined to think that Jinbei will secretly play a role in the establishment of a new homeland. To me, he is just too important, too rational and too responsible an individual to go on an adventure which he never desired before even when he was a pirate. Such a principled and established man does not play around like the Straw Hat.
! More hot takes:
! > Hey, if that's their opinion that's fine, but the is case like Vivi and as you mention is the greater responsibility Jinbei has with his people. If his homeland is destroyed as Shirley predicted, it might necessarily be a bad thing. It has the smell of Alabasta MK II. in which Jinbei with the help of the straw-hats will remove the main antagonist and help re-build the broken kingdom back through repatriation, much like Vivi did. It makes sense to me reading a bit of Manga that could happen, but we'll see through anime anyway. I could be way off the mark lol, so I'll hold fire till then.
More Fisher Tiger flashbacks will be great tho.
! > That's not what I meant exactly. I didn't say anything about Jinbei travelling with the Straw-Hats. I simply meant his temporary joining with Luffy and co. against the common enemy in the saga and main antagonist (Like Vivi with Crocodile) is the point I was making. He's already near enough to his homeland anyway, no need to travel really.
He could get a pardon from Neptune if Jinbei helps keep the peace against Hody Jones and co. and lift his banishment from Fishman Island which is plausible. But he could also decide to forsee the re-building from afar and offer assistance in other ways, if Shirley's prediction proves to be literally correct.Hope this explains my thoughts better.
! > I am not trying to start a MASSIVE flame debate… but isn't it possible that Jinbei is done? What I mean by this is that after this arc his people are going to need him and he has been traveling around the world for a long time. He always seems to be against fighting, I wonder if he is tired of the fighting.
! > I really don't see How can a Pirate Call His Captain with the suffix -KUN.
! > A random strong fishman we haven't seen yet who knows fishman karate will make better sense than Jinbei who is too well known and will probably be doing other things at Fishman Island or the New World.
! > No that is bullshit inferior authors do. Oda is more logical consistent where old people state they aren't as strong as they were in the prime and Prime(middle age) guys are at the top of their game but acknowledge they will eventually be surpassed by a new generation. The only middle-age men who will be stronger when we see them again will be Teach because he has only had his fruits a short time, Moriah because hes getting back into shape, and maybe Kuma from enhancements and Mag because he only worked 4 hours a day which leaves little time for training. Oh and maybe Teach original crew because they may not be that experienced. Jinbe, Croc, Mihawk, Shanks, Vice Admirals, have no reason to go up in relatively short timespans.What is that supposed to mean? Oda will make time for whatever he wants to include in the story. Brooke and Franky aren't coming of age tales so why would another have to be? Though I do think an apprentice like Shanks&Buggy for the SH is entirely likely if not inevitable.
It would have been stupid and a free ride for the weaker SH since he'd destroy people they had to struggle with or he'd be written into situations where he couldn't help.
Oh I agree entirely but Jinbe becoming a SH is just one more perk others do not have. Too many perks takes away from sense of how difficult the journey is supposed to be. Its like Naruto going from underdog to the destined child nonsense. Not as ridiculous but closer in that direction that I'd like.
Read above. This implies that Jinbei hasn't already done this many many times before. Reached a wall then with effort broke through it. At some point(at least in One Piece) you cannot do that anymore. Not that people like Jinbei&Croc growth will be completely static but surpassing themselves is done. Why is almost everyone referencing inferiorly written series to make our points. I read OP because Oda does a good job subverting many cliches like this. The War has tons of examples of Oda suberting cliches. Why start using them now? I'm not really anxious to see a scene where Jinbei finally masters a technique years in the making at a critical point in a fight and turns everything around or worse something he had no idea he could do.
! > My problem with Jinbei becoming a SH is not his personality or lack of a role but his potential to grow in strength. He has virtually none. He is already in the prime of his life. He can't logically grow at the same rate as any of the SH and likely hasn't changed much from before facing Ace till now. He has already trained and fought strong guys for decades. Not going to improve over a few months and should actually get worse over the years. I don't see how you make a character with a static power level interesting when they're alongside people who will eventually overcome their previous selves. Not a fan of illogical growth or just inflating his power each arc while implying it hasn't change since joining.That and entering the NW with 4 or 5 warlord level fighters seems like a cheap free ride to the top for the SH. First special training from some of the world's best in their respective fields then another of the world's best joins them. Then they still have more friends in high places waiting for them in the NW (Dragon, WB pirates, Garp, Shanks, Lola's mom, Elbaf, maybe Franky's dad and Bronze). Unlike when they entered EB and the Grand Line odds are heavily in their favor and they are no longer underdogs. Jinbe becoming a member makes them even more special…...almost Naruto&Sasuke-ish. Not dismissing the SH talent, hard work, and hardships those other two can't compare with but now its the latter and lots of help. I'm sure all the SN, Warlords, Yonkou, and Roger wouldn't have minded these perks on their rise to power....well maybe they would.
Just seems odd Kidd will likely fight equally with Luffy late in the series and got no help on his rise. That makes almost makes Luffy look weak because he didn't make it remotely as far on his own.
! And the oh so famous…
! > He's too big, he can't fit through doors.
A lot of you guys are acting in hindsight bias now if you think Jinbe being the next SH/nakama was a given, even when Luffy straight up invited him.
And then the ever so faithful @__Shift__ said this in regards to Jinbe back then.
To all who say that our love is blind, I'd say just the opposite: we've been keeping an eye on the details with a pair of binoculars and noses up to the page looking for the clues. To all the Jinbe doubters, these are the bare minimum of moments that people are gonna look back on and wonder how there could have _ever been any doubt:
1. Jinbe's initial name drop as a potentially bigger bad than Arlong.
2. The revelation that Jinbe was, in fact, a true-'n-blue good guy and friend of Ace.
3. Being a part of the Impel Down breakout and demonstrating his unique skills with Fishman karate and calling his whale shark buds.
4. Realizing that he'll have to eventually apologize for Arlong's misdeeds and thank Luffy for stopping him.
5. His out-of-the-blue flashbacks to Ace detailing a request to look out for Luffy that could have been made earlier in their cell in real time without much problem, where instead the request was placed in the middle of his looking out for Luffy, both escaping the battlefield and recovering on Amazon Lily.
6. Jinbe pulling Luffy out of his despair and reminding him of what he still has to fight for.
7. The mirrored flashback of Ace telling Luffy's crew in Alabasta to look out for him as well.
8. Promising to meet Luffy and his crew on Fishman Island at the end of 2 years.
9. Having a connection and flashback to not only Fisher Tiger, as the other Sun Pirates had, but to Queen Otohime, as the rest of FI had, making him one of the only fishmen with 2 tragedies in his past (not counting Ace and Whitebeard making it 4).
10. Forming a strong connection with not only Luffy from their experiences prior, but to Nami for their mutual connection to Arlong and her abdication of any grudge against fishmen as a whole including Jinbe, and more simply to Franky.
11. The scuffle between Luffy and Jinbe, which allowed for A) Fishman karate to be better explained, B) the comparable power to be shown between the two and how neither outright trumps the other, and C) the hilarious image of Luffy and Jinbe punching each other out with Sanji as the helpless sap between them.
12. The spread at the end of 633, with Jinbe right alongside all the Straw Hats prepped for battle.
13. 634's colorspread with Jinbe noticeably absent from among the other Fishman Island denizens as though being saved for later.
14. The title of 634 itself, "10 vs. 100,000", with the "10" presumably including Jinbe among the 9 Straw Hats.
15. Jinbe's little quirk of wanting to take the time to think up a good operation name.
16. Jinbe leading the role call of the rest of the Straw Hats at the end of 634._
Suddenly now, it's obvious. But clearly there's been discourse in the past when discussing things like this. We can never be so certain of what will happen in the story. Just know that we can only infer based on what little Oda gives us in the narrative.
Usopp had problems hitting her because Sugar was exactly the same height as the bottom gap of the window and the next problem was that it was small.
https://xy-10-w.mangapark.net/fb/91/5c413127fea8de21eb5519bf/11_159092_760_1200.webp
His sight wasn't enough to hit the target as he couldn't see the gap from afar to hit Sugar (to knock her out again). He had to shoot right into the gap so that she could see the drawing because Sugar was level with the lower gap in the window. By seeing Sugar's presence, he knew exactly where to shoot. It had nothing to do with locating people.
He could only see the presences with his haki while he already knew someone's location, not the other way around. If he can see the presences of people without first having to know the location of someone that a person is there and then concentrate on that point, then I would say that he can see the presences without having to know the location of a person beforehand.
Usopp had problems hitting her because Sugar was exactly the same height as the bottom gap of the window and the next problem was that it was small.
https://xy-10-w.mangapark.net/fb/91/5c413127fea8de21eb5519bf/11_159092_760_1200.webp
His sight wasn't enough to hit the target as he couldn't see the gap from afar to hit Sugar (to knock her out again). He had to shoot right into the gap so that she could see the drawing because Sugar was level with the lower gap in the window. By seeing Sugar's presence, he knew exactly where to shoot. It had nothing to do with locating people.
He could only see the presences with his haki while he already knew someone's location, not the other way around. If he can see the presences of people without first having to know the location of someone that a person is there and then concentrate on that point, then I would say that he can see the presences without having to know the location of a person beforehand.
Never said he couldn't locate people, just that his specialty when it comes to CoO is seeing people's auras, similar to Fujitora. Regardless, if being a lookout is auxiliary to being a sniper, then so was being a helmsman to a shipwright till someone who was much better at the task could handle it. Right now, Usopp seems to have his "sights" on both positions, but the argument is that Oda was basically foreshadowing that role with Carrot due to the many instances she took the position on her own accord. The 2 roles aren't always mutually exclusive. Will she show an observation feat that compliments Usopp or will her leaping and vision assist in any way? We'll wait and see. In case you guys haven't noticed, the Straw Hats are now all converging to the same location barring the obvious absence of Sanji, Franky, and Brook. The action has yet to kick in.
then so was being a helmsman to a shipwright till someone who was much better at the task could handle it..
Well, you just kinda pointed out what's Carrot's main issue right there.
She's not the better option right now.
Well, you just kinda pointed out what's Carrot's main issue right there.
She's not the better option right now.
I also pointed out saying that certain skills weren't shown till it was absolutely necessary to the plot.
Action ain't over yet.
They were always going to lose that ship.
Perhaps, the argument is that they lost it faster because they did not have a helmsman and a shipwright. But considering how good Jimbe is, who knows what could have happened. How much damage does the Merry take if Franky does the preparations for the knock up stream? All these details led to the ship dying faster. That's all.
You get a dedicated helmsman early on and the need for a shipwright goes away. And again, it's plot-specific.
This is false, as the Sunny still needed repairs from damage done through combat. Damage from Big Mom and the detonations recently in Wano. Franky is still needed now even with Jimbe there.
In short, losing Merry is more reflective on their need of a helmsman than the repairman.
And then the ever so faithful @__Shift__ said this in regards to Jinbe back then.
Suddenly now, it's obvious. But clearly there's been discourse in the past when discussing things like this. We can never be so certain of what will happen in the story. Just know that we can only infer based on what little Oda gives us in the narrative.
Aw man, that really does bring me back. The struggle was real, but it was always fun to fight for the blue guy. Thanks for this.
wow, I didnt realize so many people were against Jinbe, seems like theyre not active anymore tho?
Oda retconned the door sizes
To all who say that our love is blind, I'd say just the opposite: we've been keeping an eye on the details with a pair of binoculars and noses up to the page looking for the clues. To all the Jinbe doubters, these are the bare minimum of moments that people are gonna look back on and wonder how there could have ever been any doubt:
1. Jinbe's initial name drop as a potentially bigger bad than Arlong.
2. The revelation that Jinbe was, in fact, a true-'n-blue good guy and friend of Ace.
3. Being a part of the Impel Down breakout and demonstrating his unique skills with Fishman karate and calling his whale shark buds.
4. Realizing that he'll have to eventually apologize for Arlong's misdeeds and thank Luffy for stopping him.
5. His out-of-the-blue flashbacks to Ace detailing a request to look out for Luffy that could have been made earlier in their cell in real time without much problem, where instead the request was placed in the middle of his looking out for Luffy, both escaping the battlefield and recovering on Amazon Lily.
6. Jinbe pulling Luffy out of his despair and reminding him of what he still has to fight for.
7. The mirrored flashback of Ace telling Luffy's crew in Alabasta to look out for him as well.
8. Promising to meet Luffy and his crew on Fishman Island at the end of 2 years.
9. Having a connection and flashback to not only Fisher Tiger, as the other Sun Pirates had, but to Queen Otohime, as the rest of FI had, making him one of the only fishmen with 2 tragedies in his past (not counting Ace and Whitebeard making it 4).
10. Forming a strong connection with not only Luffy from their experiences prior, but to Nami for their mutual connection to Arlong and her abdication of any grudge against fishmen as a whole including Jinbe, and more simply to Franky.
11. The scuffle between Luffy and Jinbe, which allowed for A) Fishman karate to be better explained, B) the comparable power to be shown between the two and how neither outright trumps the other, and C) the hilarious image of Luffy and Jinbe punching each other out with Sanji as the helpless sap between them.
12. The spread at the end of 633, with Jinbe right alongside all the Straw Hats prepped for battle.
13. 634's colorspread with Jinbe noticeably absent from among the other Fishman Island denizens as though being saved for later.
14. The title of 634 itself, "10 vs. 100,000", with the "10" presumably including Jinbe among the 9 Straw Hats.
15. Jinbe's little quirk of wanting to take the time to think up a good operation name.
16. Jinbe leading the role call of the rest of the Straw Hats at the end of 634.
could make a similar list but applying to tama instead lol
1. connected to the ace and oars jr flashback back in marineford
2. Pirate apprentice first mentioned in volume 3, chapter 19, page 16, and ever since we got reminders that the position still exists.
3. ace being her dead mentor
4. has a dream
5. has a past that is still not fully discovered yet, her background and the timeline inconsistency
6. doesn't know Luffy is the brother of Ace yet
7. Luffy doesn't know she was promised to join Ace's crew
8. she wore Luffys strawhat and is from the "strawhat" village
9. she is a straw hat weaver, in a story where we have two very important straw hats.
10. has a connection to Ace's old crew
11. has a strong bond to Luffy, but also Zoro and interacted with Chopper, Big mom, Momo and Kiku.
12. volume cover of 91
13. she is set up to do something important with her power.
14. her design, social roles, characteristics, name and colors are seemingly unique and fitting within the crew.
15. she has lots of varied influences into her character molding her to be a typical unique strawhat:ish kind of character.
16. unnamed DF that has potential to fit in the DF pattern.
17 (bonus). she would be the unexpected new member that Oda is trying to make (according to greg) but would still make 100% sense in hindsight.
and uhhh thats all i could remember for now, of course… she still needs to be able to fight somehow :ninja:
If Tama fights it would be as a Ninja in-training which would be a unique fighting style in the crew, which also helps her chances. My only concern though is that at this point in the new world anyone new who joins needs to already be a capable fighter otherwise they will probably lag behind quite a Bit.
If Tama fights it would be as a Ninja in-training which would be a unique fighting style in the crew, which also helps her chances. My only concern though is that at this point in the new world anyone new who joins needs to already be a capable fighter otherwise they will probably lag behind quite a Bit.
yeah, that is what I was thinking, and with her pets making up for the power difference against stronger foes. but she needs some basic combat abilities to deal with no name "fodders", and and some quirky ninja techniques like in ninja hattori kun would be perfect for that.
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not really related to Tama joining the crew, but me and armamenthero were discussing and finding out about this on discord.
Hosokowa Gracia, born as Akechi Tama has the same name and spelled with the same kanji as One Piece's Tama
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosokawa_Gracia
arguably the most famous person from the Hosokawa clan, which is also the daimyo clan that used to rule over Kumamoto, Odas hometown. and their emblem?
you will probably recognize this from Luffy's outfits right?
pictures are borrowed from gregs blog, where he talked about the symbol, but he didn't mention it being from the hosokawa clan.
https://one-piece.com/special/greg/detail/20180829_0931.html?l=en
That was a VERY INTERESTING conversation to say the least.
wow, I didnt realize so many people were against Jinbe, seems like theyre not active anymore tho?
Oh don't worry, there still are people who as of now don't want to accept that he's part of the crew, luckily most seem to have vanished. But this tells you that no matter how much a character it's close to become a nakama, there's always gonna be denial…
So Tama will be a ninja apprentice on a pirate ship without any person actually teaching her ninja stuff and at this point she hasn't shown any skill as a ninja at all as far as I remember.
I agree with all the people saying that a role is not really important at this point. It is something that Oda adds later just to cross out some checkmarks. As previously said the helmsman role really wasn't needed. The Straw Hats managed to ride the knock up stream just fine, managed to get to fishman island without problems and also entered Wano without problems. The wave in WCI where Jinbei showcased his skill was only a problem because Oda needed this scene to happen. It is not that there was a problem that needed to be solved it is more like Oda had a solution and then created a problem around it.
I also disagree that every straw hat needs to be the absolute best in their role. If that would be the case then why is Violet not the Straw Hats lookout? We have seen her even working together with Usopp! Oh right, because it would be boring for the Straw Hats to have the ability to see everything 50 kilometers in the distance or how ever far she could see.
Carrot being the lookout is just something that fits, there is a reason why so many people in the OP fandom all started to suggest the same role and mention it every time Carrot spots something. Carrot has displayed her role as a lookout more than Jinbei did being a helmsman before joining. If Carrot joins there will be the same lists saying "just look at all those panels it was obvious from the beginning". Also it fits with her wanting to discover this "Wonderland" that is the ocean. If there are three islands on the horizon then Carrot would absolutely pick the weirdest most dangerous looking one, just like Luffy would want it.
People need to realize that while Wano will be the longest arc in the series many things of it are also incredibly rushed. Skipping fights and scenes. When was the last time that there was a calm scene just for a chapter focusing on a single thing where the characters can breath? There are always three different things going on in any chapter, so many characters and their reactions to events must be shown. Carrot hasn't appeared much in the first two Wano acts that's absolutely true but none of the straw hats did much during that arc (I honestly can't remember what Brook or Usopp did) for the other Straw Hats you might find small things like Robin being a Geisha and Nami cosplaying as a ninja. But now that we are in Onigashima Carrot has appeared in almost every chapter and has more paneltime than most straw hats.
Something else that came to my mind is how do you guys feel about Oden being Yamatos mentor figure? I really dislike it because those two characters have never met, never talked to each, Oden probably didn't even know she existed. Yamato didn't really know Oden either. All she knows about him is his execution, the legends told about him and the things he wrote in the logbook, she hasn't even had any connection to the people who knew Oden when he lived. That's a really weak mentor connection. All other Straw Hats have really deep and personal connections to their mentors and inspirations. In that regard Carrot has so much more going for her with Pedro.
Brook found a poneglyph and dolls beneath the Shoguns castle. Each of the Strawhats have been shown doing stuff, might've been more minor, but they have been shown doing stuff integral to this arc.
Brook found a poneglyph and dolls beneath the Shoguns castle. Each of the Strawhats have been shown doing stuff, might've been more minor, but they have been shown doing stuff integral to this arc.
Ok my mistake I just reread the scene. Brook just mentions it casually (like he always does) without a panel with the poneglyph being shown so I just forgot it. Interesting that he only confirmed the location of it and couldn't get a copy this time. Robin has a lot of reading to do after this arc is over. 2 road Poneglyphs and I think 3 normal ones now? (2 from big mom and the one Brook found in Wano)
Something else that came to my mind is how do you guys feel about Oden being Yamatos mentor figure? I really dislike it because those two characters have never met, never talked to each, Oden probably didn't even know she existed. Yamato didn't really know Oden either. All she knows about him is his execution, the legends told about him and the things he wrote in the logbook, she hasn't even had any connection to the people who knew Oden when he lived. That's a really weak mentor connection. All other Straw Hats have really deep and personal connections to their mentors and inspirations. In that regard Carrot has so much more going for her with Pedro.
I think that makes Yamato look more unique to me. Oda hadn't done that kind of mentor-pupil relationship yet, except with Bartolomeo (who was never meant to join). I'm curious how Yamato's character will develop from that since they may have difficulty finding themself. It is weak, but maybe that's the point and it will develop from that.
And let's be fair Yamato has shown way more of a connection to Oden than Carrot ever did to Pedro despite the fact the later appeared together for multiple chapters. I still don't get the argument that Pedro is Carrot's dead mentor or her sad past, I think she only cried for a single page iirc.
Did Oden know Yamato exist?
And let's be fair Yamato has shown way more of a connection to Oden than Carrot ever did to Pedro despite the fact the later appeared together for multiple chapters. I still don't get the argument that Pedro is Carrot's dead mentor or her sad past, I think she only cried for a single page iirc.
This segment is almost objectively incorrect. Yamato's connection to Oden as far as we know is that she saw him and was inspired by him. That's it afawk. We know Pedro trained Carrot into using the weapon she wields now and her wearing a green cape despite being a Musketeer was a homage to his tutelage. Also, she cried for multiple pages/chapters. Not sure where you saw her in crying in only one. That in of itself is a fact.
Yamato's relation to Oden is of idolization and imitation. Carrot's relation to Pedro is of student and mentor. It's like apples to oranges.
I think that makes Yamato look more unique to me. Oda hadn't done that kind of mentor-pupil relationship yet, except with Bartolomeo (who was never meant to join). I'm curious how Yamato's character will develop from that since they may have difficulty finding themself. It is weak, but maybe that's the point and it will develop from that.
And let's be fair Yamato has shown way more of a connection to Oden than Carrot ever did to Pedro despite the fact the later appeared together for multiple chapters. I still don't get the argument that Pedro is Carrot's dead mentor or her sad past, I think she only cried for a single page iirc.
Not sure I agree with ya 100 percent on your police work there Lou. Yamato didn't even know Oden. She just idolizes him based on his writings.
wow, I didnt realize so many people were against Jinbe, seems like theyre not active anymore tho?
I was doubting he’d join during Marineford, he seemed more like a mentor figure then. Fishman Island opened the idea better for me. Luffy inviting him sealed the deal.
I still feel Jinbe is a special case, highlighted by how extensive has been his journey between being invited and officially joining. Oda had to do a lot of steps to ready him for the crew.
Sure, but I went with positions that has been mentioned and given a name in the series, so there would be less room for speculation.
Robin is an archaeologist right? It was never mentioned before Robin joined the Straw Hats and I believe no other crew officially has one.
Carrot I still think she makes sense to join in the end. Mainly because she has joined a big portion of the story and she already feels like a pseudo part of the crew. I still find it weird she was even introduced. Because this was not needed at all. A lot of her parts in the Whole Cake Island could have been introduced by for example Pekoms cause he had a similar relationship in closeness with Pedro. He could have introduced Sulong and could have been the one to be there to witness the assumed death of Pedro.
Lastly, she joined the crew in Whole Cake Island exactly like Neko and Inu did with Whitebeard and Roger.
Yamato With how important Oden was to Roger and Whitebeard I wouldn't be surprised he will join as well. Especially with the notebook in his posession for now. The fact he wants to be like Oden also already gives us a link to a well loved and established character. So in that sense he would make a good fit.
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At some point I did mention a theory in regards to the joining of Straw Hats the 4/4/4 theory where in each part of the seas we get 4 new members in the crew.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get Carrot and Yamato both in Wano. I also wouldn't be surprised if we get a third person even in the crew from this arc (like how Whitebeard got 4 people joining in one go in Wano for example). Yamato would be someone related to the Kozuki and also related to Kaido. Jinbe was part of the crew of Big Mom for example.
Also the notion of:
Male/Female/Male/Male would still work as well.
Jinbe, Carrot, Yamato, another Male.
Yamato, I believe sees himself as a ~male~ Oden, right?
My final take would be:
Carrot, potentially eating a devil fruit. (Yuki Yuki no Mi?)
Yamato
Kuzan (if the Yuki Yuki no Mi isn't eaten)
That said I do believe we do get a Logia in the crew some way or another.
Blackbeard crew. In regards of Blackbeard I do feel Weevile could join his crew at some point. I also believe Blackbeard will get notorious New World pirates in his crew as Titanic Captains. Which would end up a 13 vs 13 battle.
But the point with Usopp is that, SH's are the best among the crew at what they do, so while Nami knows vitamin C is good for scurvy during navigation, her knowledge in medicine is nothing compared to Chopper's.
Any SH will know how to make a soup, but only Sanji is a Class S cheff, Chopper and Franky know how to swing a helm but cannot drive a ship into a tide like Jinbro does.
Luffy and Usopp might like to sing, but are nothing close to be actual musicians, Brook himself knows how to cut with a sword but defintely can't dice a mountain-sized golem with it.That's the thing here, Usopp is a major obstacle for Carrot because he has that superior CoO Carrot has nothing to compete with, and we were just proven that Usopp will be the very first option to do Lookout activities as long as he's present.
Usopp isn't always using his COO just like Luffy wouldn't always activate future sight if the ship was being attacked. Just look at Wano and how chaotic it was for them right before Jinbe arrived to take out the long-range battleships, you'd think Usopp or Luffy would be able to see that beforehand.
It was a story element to give Jinbe a dramatic entrance. The fact that the long-range battleship was unnoticed until too late was a surprise plot element for Jinbe, and not some means to dismiss any characters lack of observation.
Robin is an archaeologist right? It was never mentioned before Robin joined the Straw Hats and I believe no other crew officially has one.
Yeah, but the circumstances regarding those two positions are vastly different.
Robin joined as the archeologist after 200 chapters, after we just got introduced to the poneglyphs and all that, and it is of course not a traditional position on a ship.
After almost going 1000 chapters in the series, and still no mention of the look out position even though we have seen several different characters standing as a look out I’d think there is no hope of it ever going becoming an official position. And it is not like its an important or story related position either so if it wasnt mentioned before, I dont see why it would ever needed to be mentioned later.
I was doubting he’d join during Marineford, he seemed more like a mentor figure then. Fishman Island opened the idea better for me. Luffy inviting him sealed the deal.
I still feel Jinbe is a special case, highlighted by how extensive has been his journey between being invited and officially joining. Oda had to do a lot of steps to ready him for the crew.
Ive been with Jinbe since day 1, but I was also with Paulie since day 1 lmao.
After almost going 1000 chapters in the series, and still no mention of the look out position even though we have seen several different characters standing as a look out I’d think there is no hope of it ever going becoming an official position. And it is not like its an important or story related position either so if it wasnt mentioned before, I dont see why it would ever needed to be mentioned later.
Which is the same as Jinbe being Helmsman when the crew never really needed one to get to Wano thus far? Like it's been pointed out, the story is written in a way where Oda has a solution and writes problems around them to give the character a sense of purpose. Otherwise these roles are more or less just an excuse to be on the crew. I'm pretty sure if Robin didn't exist, the story could have been written without Poneglyphs and had some other means of unveiling worldly history and secret islands. We like to believe that she's only there because of Poneglyphs without considering that the Poneglyphs themselves are just a macguffin to give a crewmember a sense of purpose that otherwise would not exist.
This would generally apply to any future character, whether we acknowledge the macguffin already or not.
Yamato has Oden's logbook. Carrot potentially has Pedro's will to carry. Tama promised to Ace to be an enchanting Kunoichi. These are all things that are directly related to Luffy or the Straw Hats in the big picture of the story. We just don't have plot-oriented problems built around any of these to consider these macguffins yet.
Sure but The helmsman position has always been in discussion ever since it was revealed Burgess was the helmsman of the blackbeard crew in Jaya.
Which is the same as Jinbe being Helmsman when the crew never really needed one to get to Wano thus far? Like it's been pointed out, the story is written in a way where Oda has a solution and writes problems around them to give the character a sense of purpose. Otherwise these roles are more or less just an excuse to be on the crew. I'm pretty sure if Robin didn't exist, the story could have been written without Poneglyphs and had some other means of unveiling worldly history and secret islands. We like to believe that she's only there because of Poneglyphs without considering that the Poneglyphs themselves are just a macguffin to give a crewmember a sense of purpose that otherwise would not exist.
That's a bad analogy, though. Especially with Jimbei being a Helmsman like no other, where he can jump overboard and tow the ship if necessary, like when Mohmoo was towing Caribou's ship to Fishman Island. At best a lookout can passively call out a danger or something and the rest of the crew then reacts to it at best a few minutes before they would have noticed anyway. A truly useful lookout system would be able to see beneath the waters, too, for hazards coming from a place they would expect to be vulnerable. I'd expect a Straw Hat worthy of a permanent post as a lookout to have no issues doing both of those things and for Oda to be creative enough for it. Someone with an ability similar to Violet's would of course meet that requirement but that ship has sailed, clearly.
Did Oden know Yamato exist?
Is possible, we didn't see much of Oden dancing around places and by that time Yamato was a free child rooming Wano.
EDIT; also, isn't a bit weird that during Oden's dance off, he was hated by most Wano-kunians, but Yamato was in love with the guy already, so interaction between both of them might have actually happened.
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wow, I didnt realize so many people were against Jinbe, seems like theyre not active anymore tho?
The main issue was Hancock, most people were convinced Hancock was going to join(cause she was going to die if Luffy left her, lmao).
So every other argument against Jinbro during Fishmen Island(by the time Hancock was left behind and did not die, extra lmao), really was mostly a baby crying attitude from being wrong.
Is possible, we didn't see much of Oden dancing around places and by that time Yamato was a free child rooming Wano.
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The main issue was Hancock, most people were convinced Hancock was going to join(cause she was going to die if Luffy left her, lmao).
So every other argument against Jinbro during Fishmen Island(by the time Hancock was left behind and did not die, extra lmao), really was mostly a baby crying attitude from being wrong.
Eh, people thought Hancock was going to join back then? I thought with her responsibilities and attachment with the Kuja pirates and island that would disqualify her pretty quickly
Eh, people thought Hancock was going to join back then? I thought with her responsibilities and attachment with the Kuja pirates and island that would disqualify her pretty quickly
She was the dominant candidate thrughout Impel Down and MarineFord.
Jinbro's popularity started right off Fishmen Island, I myself didn't see Luffy's invitation coming.
Ehh that doesnt really sound like thats what happened, i wasnt very active back then but I do know that Jinbe was a popular candidate even back in impel down in these forums. Hancock too, but most people agreed that she wasnt strawhat material per se.
That's a bad analogy, though. Especially with Jimbei being a Helmsman like no other, where he can jump overboard and tow the ship if necessary, like when Mohmoo was towing Caribou's ship to Fishman Island. At best a lookout can passively call out a danger or something and the rest of the crew then reacts to it at best a few minutes before they would have noticed anyway. A truly useful lookout system would be able to see beneath the waters, too, for hazards coming from a place they would expect to be vulnerable. I'd expect a Straw Hat worthy of a permanent post as a lookout to have no issues doing both of those things and for Oda to be creative enough for it. Someone with an ability similar to Violet's would of course meet that requirement but that ship has sailed, clearly.
But the roles themselves are built in a way that supports the character. Jinbe isn't acting a helmsman role by jumping overboard to tow the ship like in your example; he is simply good utility. Just like if you say oh Usopp has lots of different utility gadgets and can help fix the ship, that is not really anything to do with him being the ship's Sniper. That is Usopp being a unique character, just like Jinbe is a unique character for being a Fishman. It has nothing to do with the role.
The situations where the ship was in danger and Jinbe helped them out of it by being Helmsman were intentionally written in to put him in that strong position. Everything else about his character simply supports that role. He is written in to be an exceptional Helmsman even though there's nothing to suggest this outside of the situations which were literally created to show off helmsman skills. It's not like Jinbe had any reputation as a Helmsman any time that we knew him before.
What I am saying is this can be applied to other characters in similar manner. Carrot doesn't even have to be Lookout for my example to work, I am saying the importance of the role would be illustrated by the story when the time comes. So far, Brook is the only one who didn't have a role that was necessary, but his macguffin of having a song to bring back to Laboon is what ends up tying him to the crew. Overall it's not like the crew needed a musician to solve problems, or even the best musician in the world to join them. It's the situations and the story that ends up presenting the character in a way that makes them exceptional.
IF we use Carrot and being Lookout as an example, and she is meant for that role on the strawhat crew, then she'd be written in with an important Lookout role. So far that hasn't happened. But it doesn't mean it won't happen, it doesn't mean it should happen. It just hasn't happened, and we don't even know if 'Lookout' would be her intended role if she joined the crew. It's just a fan theory based on what she contributed to early on in her introduction and travels with the crew. That role doesn't have to be 'the best in the world' or 'be able to see underwater and be as good as Violet' at all. We had better doctors than Chopper with Law, but it doesn't detract from any of Chopper's accomplishments. Violet isn't a standard of measurement for any future Lookouts either.
Eh, people thought Hancock was going to join back then? I thought with her responsibilities and attachment with the Kuja pirates and island that would disqualify her pretty quickly
Well, Hancock, Perona and Jinbe were the three contenders back then. Don't ask me about Perona, I never understood that. But Hancock had and still has a lot going for her, I just think Oda was playing the long game (like he did with Jinbe) instead of being a classic "join just after we meet the nakama".
Her attachments are nothing that can forbid her to join, just like people said Franky couldn't join because he had the Franky Family back in Water 7. Then Oda solved that in a single chapter by having his family ask Luffy to take Franky with him and hatched a plan to steal his speedo.
Hancock lost her title and Amazon Lily is being attacked right now, something I said would happen over a decade ago. Also, Fishman Island flashback totally skipped Fisher Tiger's rampage on Mary Geoise, which I was expecting for Hancock's flashback, so it's still going to happen. I just missed when, not what, so I think the story I was expecting back then is finally going to be told.
First off, kudos to that prediction of yours. I wasn't around for those discussions, so I never knew how heavy they were.
Boa Hancock doesn't strike me as a character that would join simply bc her existence is that important to the Kuja. But we'll, the story is going into full throttle mode, so anything's possible now.