Powerlevel wank is why so may people had issues with Blackbeard being the final villain for so long. He's lost a large number of his fights.That's what makes it fun and interesting, no in the series is an undefeated untouchable god, everyone has weaknesses and losses.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
-
-
For it to be worth any pirate points he would've had to have planned it. Kaido chose to fight fair, the hag chose to cheat and Kaido clubbed her to death over it. Not very many sneak points to be claimed for him there. The hag could claim some but sadly she is disqualified for not being an actual pirate
Kaidou getting upset over that made it even more entertaining for me. Pirate or not, despite seemingly hanging around with an accomplished one or two her interference and Kaidou’s disapproval made the entire situation better on my read.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
-
Powerlevel wank is why so may people had issues with Blackbeard being the final villain for so long. He's lost a large number of his fights.That's what makes it fun and interesting, no in the series is an undefeated untouchable god, everyone has weaknesses and losses.
I don't believe Blackbeard is the final villain because it doesn't fit the narrative at all. Has nothing to do with power level.
-
Artemis put it perfectly. Nobody is mad that Oden was a match to Kaido or that he scarred him. The point was that Oda failed to make Kaido an even bigger threat by beating Oden clean. Oden didn’t need such showing. Kaido needed to get the better of him
Also Oda messed up because at first Kaido was introduced by Wanonese guys as a monster that nobody could touch, not even Oden. And somehow Oda in the flashback started to massively wank Oden to the point where it hurt the image of the big bad. Kaido getting PTSD was even worse
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also it’s a hilarious argument when you guys bring up Kaidos defeats and there are simple reasons for it
First we don’t know when they happened. They could be at the start of his career
What else do we know ? That he was challenging other Yonko and marines by himself and that they couldn’t kill him. Not only that but he also managed to escape from them multiple times by himself
And how does he get introduced ? He jumps from a sky island and only gets a headache
Oda instead of building on that he makes Oden a god and has Kaido look like a clown. Yeah sorry but Doflamingo who’s terrified of Kaido never looked like a clown
-
@Joy:
Also Oda messed up because at first Kaido was introduced by Wanonese guys as a monster that nobody could touch, not even Oden. And somehow Oda in the flashback started to massively wank Oden to the point where it hurt the image of the big bad. Kaido getting PTSD was even worse
We learned about Oden scarring Kaido months before the flashback even started…
@Joy:
. Not only that but he also managed to escape from them multiple times by himself
We have no confirmation of how Kaido escaped all of his captures/executions.
-
Kaidou getting upset over that made it even more entertaining for me. Pirate or not, despite seemingly hanging around with an accomplished one or two her interference and Kaidou’s disapproval made the entire situation better on my read.
I think Kaido's reaction to it was the whole intent of Oda handling the situation this way. Latest chapter also really showcases respect as one of Kaido's central themes as a character. The fact that his whole operation is built upon breaking people's spirit and making them join him, but he actually respects the ones that continue opposing him is a pretty cool dichotomy that I hope Oda builds upon.
I especially find interesting how he handles Momo and wonder if it actually factors in his whole suicide shtick. 20 years ago Kaido let Momo live after finding him unremarkable and now he gave the option of letting him go by throwing away his name (and thus all his honor with it). And seeing how Kaido himself seeks a place to die - as it seems preferably by engulfing the whole world in war - I wonder if a respectful death is what Kaido wishes for himself.
-
I don't think emperors should be untouchable gods, but the thing is that Kaido was sold as Wano's unbeatable monster that nobody could defeat.
Seeing him being at the mercy of Oden and still having flashback of that moment even now makes him look like a gigantic fraud. I thought the flashback was going to cement Kaido's status as a the World strongest creature but instead his role was that of a hype tool. -
@Joy:
Artemis put it perfectly. Nobody is mad that Oden was a match to Kaido or that he scarred him. The point was that Oda failed to make Kaido an even bigger threat by beating Oden clean. Oden didn’t need such showing. Kaido needed to get the better of him
Also Oda messed up because at first Kaido was introduced by Wanonese guys as a monster that nobody could touch, not even Oden. And somehow Oda in the flashback started to massively wank Oden to the point where it hurt the image of the big bad. Kaido getting PTSD was even worse
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also it’s a hilarious argument when you guys bring up Kaidos defeats and there are simple reasons for it
First we don’t know when they happened. They could be at the start of his career
What else do we know ? That he was challenging other Yonko and marines by himself and that they couldn’t kill him. Not only that but he also managed to escape from them multiple times by himself
And how does he get introduced ? He jumps from a sky island and only gets a headache
Oda instead of building on that he makes Oden a god and has Kaido look like a clown. Yeah sorry but Doflamingo who’s terrified of Kaido never looked like a clown
Kaido is the weakest Yonko thats all there is to it. One of them had to be the weakest and Oda picked Kaido which was obvious since he is the first to go down. Some people just underestimated the gap between him and the others but it Oda made it pretty clear there is a very large gap. Time to accept it and move on.
-
Also I fail to see how knowing Oden wounded Kaido is supposed to justify his poor portrayal. Wyper stopped Enel's heart yet it just ended making Enel more impressive.
-
Also I fail to see how knowing Oden wounded Kaido is supposed to justify his poor portrayal. Wyper stopped Enel's heart yet it just ended making Enel more impressive.
As I said it’s not that he wounded him. It’s that Kaido lost and would have died if it wasn’t for the old hag. There is no unkillable Kaido now. Oda forgot about it
-
@Joy:
As I said it’s not that he wounded him. It’s that Kaido lost and would have died if it wasn’t for the old hag. There is no unkillable Kaido now. Oda forgot about it
And I agree, some villains managed to feel even more threatening after getting wounded while Kaido certainly doesn't.
-
Yeah, lets just forget that Kaidou took Luffy's full gear 4 barrage without flinching and then OHKOed him, and laser blasted a castle to dust from miles away. SO weak.
He got hit by one clean attack from a guy that hung with Roger and Whitebeard in their prime, 20 years ago, and that's the deal breaker? And NOTHING about that fight suggested Oden had the clear upper hand and was absolutely going to win and kill Kidou the next second. He got in one good hit, and then a goon ended the fight before it went any further by doing what pirates do, and playing dirty. Unlike the noble samurai.
-
I don't think emperors should be untouchable gods, but the thing is that Kaido was sold as Wano's unbeatable monster that nobody could defeat.
Seeing him being at the mercy of Oden and still having flashback of that moment even now makes him look like a gigantic fraud. I thought the flashback was going to cement Kaido's status as a the World strongest creature but instead his role was that of a hype tool.You can't say he's a fraud when the character was literally introduced as being explicitly being capable of being defeated. Not to mention this was literally 20 years ago, we have no idea what exactly Kaido's status was back then.
Even then, saying stuff like he was at Oden's mercy is just so disingenuous. He got one slash in, and Kaido immediately got back up. You can have your headcanon on what would happen next, but taking it as a 100% confirmed fact that Oden would've won right then and there had the old hag not intervened is just silly. If the framing had gone even farther and shown Kaido accepting death or something along those lines, then yea I'd agree. But that's not what happened.
Nor did Oda just leave us with that and call it a day, as we later found out that no, Kaido didn't approve of that intervention whatsoever, and straight up killed her for it. I find that more interesting to talk about than people being upset their personal headcanon was disrupted, but I digress.
Also I fail to see how knowing Oden wounded Kaido is supposed to justify his poor portrayal. Wyper stopped Enel's heart yet it just ended making Enel more impressive.
My point is that Joy Boy conveniently forgot that Oden was hyped up well before the flashback actually began.
-
He got one slash in, and Kaido immediately got back up.
After Oden was distracted. It is not headcanon to say he was going to get killed. Kaido was on the ground and Oden was about to cut his head off then he gets distracted and then Kaido gets up. No distraction = dead = Kaido being "unkillable" being bullshit.
-
I didn’t conveniently forget anything. Kaido is the supposed WSC and one on one champ. It’s not Oden. Oden doesn’t have such hype. Also when you mention WB you forget that the Yonko are his peers
-
Powerlevel wank is why so may people had issues with Blackbeard being the final villain for so long. He's lost a large number of his fights.That's what makes it fun and interesting, no in the series is an undefeated untouchable god, everyone has weaknesses and losses.
In Blackbeards case it just works for him. His whole chaotic being just benefits from alternating betwenn winning and losing. Like as a character he is a bit of everything, he's weak and he's strong, he's crafty and cunning but also a careless moron, he follows a master plan but he also runs a pirate resort for fun etc etc. Meanwhile Kaido is a fairly stock might makes right overlord, if you put a question mark at his might it affects his schtick more than a similar loss would affect Blacky.
-
Yeah, lets just forget that Kaidou took Luffy's full gear 4 barrage without flinching and then OHKOed him, and laser blasted a castle to dust from miles away. SO weak.
Pretty much any top tier can do that and more. Mihawk cutting that giant iceberg with a casual slash back in Marineford is a million times more impressive than destroying a small castle. Oh and they wouldn't get disarmed by a cat.
When I say Kaido is weak I don't mean he is fodder or something I mean compared to other top tiers (Admirals, Yonko, Garp, Mihawk) he is weak.
And NOTHING about that fight suggested Oden had the clear upper hand and was absolutely going to win and kill Kidou the next second.
That's exactly what was going to happen maybe you need to reread that chapter.
-
Yeah, lets just forget that Kaidou took Luffy's full gear 4 barrage without flinching and then OHKOed him, and laser blasted a castle to dust from miles away. SO weak.
He got hit by one clean attack from a guy that hung with Roger and Whitebeard in their prime, 20 years ago, and that's the deal breaker? And NOTHING about that fight suggested Oden had the clear upper hand and was absolutely going to win and kill Kidou the next second. He got in one good hit, and then a goon ended the fight before it went any further by doing what pirates do, and playing dirty. Unlike the noble samurai.
Even then Kaido OHKO Oden aswell. Thats more impressive.
Oden used Emma with his haki, while Kaido did it, in his own way.
-
How Kaidou stacks up relative to pre-flashback Luffy is kinda immaterial in regards to the discussion of his encounter with Oden. The point is that a certain high degree of apparent vulnerability of the villain has now been planted in the readers mind, and will thus affect his percieved threat level. Like, theres a reason Oda didn't have a flashback of Crocodile getting maimed and getting his scar smack dab in the middle of Alabasta, and that Mihawk left the Baratie without touching a hair on Kriegs head.
Anyway, its pretty exasparating to see that no matter of much people critical of the Kaido/Oden encounter stress that its not so much about damage being dealt to Kaidou as how the whole situation was framed, it will still be rebuffed by the nice n' easy "powerlevel wank" counterargument. Kinda similar to when people lamenting the loss of crewmate-spotlighting action scenes get "Fight junkie" thrown back at them. Thats one silver lining with the sudden decapitation of Orochi - his power level is so low that criticism of the discarding of an engaging villain can't be countered with "powerlevel wank" (instead, here its "he's not dead", which still misses the point of the criticism)
Anyway anyway, I'd argue a good case of "hyping a villain through defeat" is Kaidous introduction, where all the narration of his captures only underline how unkillable this guy is - literally stating "guillotines break on his neck", which paints the picture of a guy so untouchable, so bored in his untouchableness, that in your minds eye you picture him getting captured, attempted executed, yawning and then walking off going "see ya next week". Of course, I realize that a common interpretation now is that Kaidous introduction paints him as fallible and vulnerable, but this interpretation is at complete odds with how the events of the chapter frame him - so bored, so invulnerable, that he attempts suicide from airplane-level altitudes and shrugs it off unscathed and slightly dissapointed. It'd be extremely counterintuitive for the story to go "this guy is so invulnerable suicide is his hobby, look at this spectacular suicide attempt which does nothing" and the narration to go "actually he's perfectly defeatable".
Based on a cursory look of the first few pages of the old chapter 795 thread, this latter viewpoint didn't seem to be very present back then, I'd say it more seemed to surface recently when people could retroactively use it as "precedence" of Kaidou vulnerability to dismiss criticism of how Kaidous flashback battle was framed, but thats just me speculatingEdit: oh no people are going over chapter 970 again. I won't ever fathom how the framing of a big impressive 2-page spread attack from Oden which downs his opponent with no followup panels indicating the opponent is about to move out of the way from Odens followup strike accompanied by a righteous speech does NOT suggests, through composition and visual storytelling, that Oden was at a clear advantage, especially considering how the fight is resolved
To me its like someone pointing the sun and going "thats' blue", its like we're speaking different languages
-
Daz hits a point yet again. Kaidos mentioned defeats weren’t to downgrade him. They were to hype him as this guy who even at loses will always get back up even stronger. Odens case didn’t help thst
-
Blackbeard losing and rising back up again works because he's meant to be paralleling Luffy and rising up in the world alongside him.
But Kaido was always meant to be this insurmountable wall that nobody can surpass…except for that one dude that could have done it, just got distracted. Because of the Oden thing, now when Luffy beats Kaido, it won't feel like he did something special that no one else could, at most we can call him an equal to Oden.
I do think the theme Oda is trying to go with is that Oden's tragic flaw was taking everything on himself, and Luffy will succeed where he failed because he knows very well he can't do everything alone, but it just doesn't feel like the reason Oden lost was anything other than the intervention of a third party. So it kinda ends up feeling like the only reason this whole mess happened was a matter of mere chance.
-
Even then Kaido OHKO Oden aswell. Thats more impressive.
Oden used Emma with his haki, while Kaido did it, in his own way.
Kaido beat Oden with his special club and only because Oden was distracted by "Momo".
-
-
Frankly, I do not hold Oden vs. Kaido in that much of a regard because it was two decades ago. Reminder that Moria of all people was supposedly rivaling him in that period of time if we believe that random pirate captain.
Logic dictates that Kaido should have grown much stronger ever since. He may have awakened or learned a new trick to make himself more dangerous.
-
@Joy:
There is no basis on Kaidos club being special lol
It was emphasised in chapter 824. Will that be another point against Kaido if, say, it has seastone? I'm sorry.
-
Another thing about the "Oden wasn't about to win" angle is that it completely drains the scene of any drama
Oden being on the cusp of victory and getting defeated due to underhanded trickery and his own big heart is tragically dramatic (in its intent at least), whereas "Oden was not about to win, who knows what would've happened, in fact Kaidou could've won any way" angle is…pretty flat and uncompelling, isn't it?
And thats the last thing I'll say about chapter 970, I've spent more words on that than is healthy
-
Personally, seeing Kaidou still in his growing pains back then was honestly enjoyable for me.
-
Blackbeard losing and rising back up again works because he's meant to be paralleling Luffy and rising up in the world alongside him.
But Kaido was always meant to be this insurmountable wall that nobody can surpass…except for that one dude that could have done it, just got distracted. Because of the Oden thing, now when Luffy beats Kaido, it won't feel like he did something special that no one else could, at most we can call him an equal to Oden.
I do think the theme Oda is trying to go with is that Oden's tragic flaw was taking everything on himself, and Luffy will succeed where he failed because he knows very well he can't do everything alone, but it just doesn't feel like the reason Oden lost was anything other than the intervention of a third party. So it kinda ends up feeling like the only reason this whole mess happened was a matter of mere chance.
How is he meant to be insurmountable when the character is literally introduced as being anything but that? 7 defeats. 18 captures. Tortured several times in his past. The main claim is that you apparently cannot kill him in spite of all that, that's it. And this is all present day narration, unlike the flashback that was 20 years ago, not a few months/years ago.
Yes, obviously his introduction is legendary, but Oden would've never been the only person to achieve this to begin with. The narrator always kept it real about Kaido.
-
How is he meant to be insurmountable when the character is literally introduced as being anything but that? 7 defeats. 18 captures. Tortured several times in his past. The main claim is that you apparently cannot kill him in spite of all that, that's it. And this is all present day narration, unlike the flashback that was 20 years ago, not a few months/years ago.Yes, obviously his introduction is legendary, but Oden would've never been the only person to achieve this to begin with. The narrator always kept it real about Kaido.
When we entered Wano's arc I never had the impression that Kaido was only able to dominate the country due to luck, I don't know for you.
-
I'm curious what the reaction of the naysayers will be when we finally see Kaido at full strength. Still mad or will they jump on the bandwagon again?
-
When we entered Wano's arc I never had the impression that Kaido was only able to dominate the country due to luck, I don't know for you.
Again, this goes back to headcanon, not the objective fact you and the others want it to be. I can't do anything about that, sorry.
-
This post is deleted!
-
How is he meant to be insurmountable when the character is literally introduced as being anything but that? 7 defeats. 18 captures. Tortured several times in his past. The main claim is that you apparently cannot kill him in spite of all that, that's it. And this is all present day narration, unlike the flashback that was 20 years ago, not a few months/years ago.
Yes, obviously his introduction is legendary, but Oden would've never been the only person to achieve this to begin with. The narrator always kept it real about Kaido.
Daz already said it, but it's all about framing. The fact that he lost a bunch of times means nothing juxtaposed with him jumping off a sky island and coming out unscathed, it only makes him look more intimidating. It's like, even you beat him, you still can't take him out for good. But the impression the fight with Oden gives off a completely different impression. That exact same exchange could have been framed as Kaido coming back with a vengeance after taking a heavy blow and beating Oden anyways, but that's not how it is. Instead, it just makes Kaido look (and this the keyword here, not whether he is or not) weaker. And that's something you should probably avoid doing to your big bad villains, specially the kind of tough guy villain Kaido is, and specially just before the epic confrontation with them.
-
Kaido is the weakest Yonko thats all there is to it. One of them had to be the weakest and Oda picked Kaido which was obvious since he is the first to go down. Some people just underestimated the gap between him and the others but it Oda made it pretty clear there is a very large gap. Time to accept it and move on.
I don't think you know what this means.
After Oden was distracted. It is not headcanon to say he was going to get killed. Kaido was on the ground and Oden was about to cut his head off then he gets distracted and then Kaido gets up. No distraction = dead = Kaido being "unkillable" being bullshit.
I don't understand how anyone can come to such strong conclusions about what would have happened when we've already seen Dragon Kaido stopped by Luffy and what happened afterwards. The only thing we know for sure is that Higurashi distracted Oden enough that Kaido was able to beat him and that his Thunder Bagua seems to be a one hitter quitter for probably everyone but Big Mom.
@Joy:
I didn’t conveniently forget anything. Kaido is the supposed WSC and one on one champ. It’s not Oden. Oden doesn’t have such hype. Also when you mention WB you forget that the Yonko are his peers
Yeah. Oden's been dead for 20 years and Kaido is the World's Strongest Creature now. We don't know how he was perceived back then or earlier. Oda has left a pretty big blank in regards to Kaido on a lot of occasions. I wonder why?
Pretty much any top tier can do that and more. Mihawk cutting that giant iceberg with a casual slash back in Marineford is a million times more impressive than destroying a small castle. Oh and they wouldn't get disarmed by a cat.
When I say Kaido is weak I don't mean he is fodder or something I mean compared to other top tiers (Admirals, Yonko, Garp, Mihawk) he is weak.
Arguing about Kaido's portrayal being off for one reason or another is a perfectly valid stance to take that a lot of this forum's users are. Arguing that he's meant to be seen as weak absolutely is not. There's no reason to think he's not on the level of those people you listed.
@Daz:
Edit: oh no people are going over chapter 970 again. I won't ever fathom how the framing of a big impressive 2-page spread attack from Oden which downs his opponent with no followup panels indicating the opponent is about to move out of the way from Odens followup strike accompanied by a righteous speech does NOT suggests, through composition and visual storytelling, that Oden was at a clear advantage, especially considering how the fight is resolved
To me its like someone pointing the sun and going "thats' blue", its like we're speaking different languages
I think there's a pretty fair argument that Oda was purposefully not making it clear. Re reading it shows 2 pretty prominent things.
1. Based on Kaido's eyes, he's taken a similar amount of damage that he did against Luffy.
2. He was able to recover and change to human fast in just the amount of time it took for Oden to be distracted for a second. Oden is only shown looking back, which to me implies a split second, and then Kaido hits him.
We're talking a split second of being beat here. Let's also not forget that the surprise is that a blow was landed on Kaido. No one seems to think he is defeated, and also that Oden's words imply specifically that he's not trying to kill Kaido, but to kick him out of Wano. If I was to bet money on what would have happened next if they weren't interrupted, I would think that Kaido would have transformed and they would have had a 1-on-1. I for sure am not bothered that Kaido took a blow from Oden any more than I thought that Luffy had actually beat him back in 922. I think Oden was able to hurt Kaido, but I don't think he was on his way to killing him. -
Daz already said it, but it's all about framing. The fact that he lost a bunch of times means nothing juxtaposed with him jumping off a sky island and coming out unscathed, it only makes him look more intimidating. It's like, even you beat him, you still can't take him out for good. But the impression the fight with Oden gives off a completely different impression. That exact same exchange could have been framed as Kaido coming back with a vengeance after taking a heavy blow and beating Oden anyways, but that's not how it is. Instead, it just makes Kaido look (and this the keyword here, not whether he is or not) weaker. And that's something you should probably avoid doing to your big bad villains, specially the kind of tough guy villain Kaido is, and specially just before the epic confrontation with them.
The reason I don't agree, or at least, am not bothered by it as some of you are, is that the person most upset over that intervention was Kaido himself. He killed a useful, loyal ally over it. This was not a scenario where Kaido willingly did something underhanded to win the fight. Nor have you ever heard him say that he felt that he needed that intervention in order to defeat Oden. The old hag intervened on his behalf despite him not wanting that at all. Again, I find that far more interesting to dissect as it continues the trend of Kaido's own weird personal code than all this powerscaling talk. Either way, regardless of the framing, nothing is contradicted, as Kaido was never framed as being "insurmountable". Even in regards to 1v1 fights, it says to bet on him, not that he's never lost one. Not that I agree in the slightest that Kaido was objectively guaranteed to lose/die, but yea.
Like Robby said, that that fight was apparently the dealbreaker for some honestly baffles me.
-
@Daz:
Another thing about the "Oden wasn't about to win" angle is that it completely drains the scene of any drama
Oden being on the cusp of victory and getting defeated due to underhanded trickery and his own big heart is tragically dramatic (in its intent at least), whereas "Oden was not about to win, who knows what would've happened, in fact Kaidou could've won any way" angle is…pretty flat and uncompelling, isn't it?
And thats the last thing I'll say about chapter 970, I've spent more words on that than is healthy
When put this way it is, but the only fact we know is that that one second decision cost Oden the fight. I feel like Kaido's reaction only makes sense if he thought he was going to get a good and worthy fight out of Oden. Yes, we know that Kaido has wanted to die in a worthy battle, but Oden screaming, "Never Come Back to Wano," again implies to me that he wasn't going to kill Kaido, and that Kaido wouldn't have picked up on the same thing from his words, thus not thinking he was nearing death.
Also, from my perspective, I'm becoming more and more intrigued about Kaido through all of these interactions. I'm longing for his flashback more than any other since Fisher Tiger and I've felt that since seeing how much of him wasn't included in the Oden flashback. I know for some this isn't satisfying, but I feel like Oda has done it that way on purpose. (and now I'm wondering if the next chapter will start the Kaido flashback? Seems like an appropriate place.)
-
Maybe its because I accepted already that Luffy isn't going to beat Kaidou on his own anyway and its not entirely his obstacle to crumble.
Momo is. Or a tag team of some sort.
With that in mind it makes all sorts of sense that a big deal is made about his father doing that damage, and then his son finishing it, and Kaidou being super heavy reminding of Oden, Even more so with his own daughter admiring Oden..
Yeah Luffy is going to do the brunt of the work, One Piece is his story, but the samurai plot is Momo's.
Momosuke and Luffytaro have to combine to make Momotaro after all.
Sure, Oda can always subvert for the sake of surprise and going expectations, but that's kind of the whole point of naming the kid that in the first place, especially with the allies he's gathered at this point and what he has to prove and he's just reeeeally been hammering in that Momo needs to get in a blow.
-
This is a pretty out-there take, but I wonder that if Momo can conquer his fears, his DF actually becomes stronger. Like, he can fly without the cloud-grabbing, can breath fire, is notably bigger, etc.
Maybe a dragon's claws are one of the few things that can pierce another dragon?
-
Maybe its because I accepted already that Luffy isn't going to beat Kaidou on his own anyway and its not entirely his obstacle to crumble.
Momo is. Or a tag team of some sort.
With that in mind it makes all sorts of sense that a big deal is made about his father doing that damage, and then his son finishing it, and Kaidou being super heavy reminding of Oden, Even more so with his own daughter admiring Oden..
Yeah Luffy is going to do the brunt of the work, One Piece is his story, but the samurai plot is Momo's.
Momosuke and Luffytaro have to combine to make Momotaro after all.
The story has definitely been setting up Momo really taking an active role in his defeat since Zou. Not sure how him teaming up with Luffy will look if one assumes he'll get the final blow, since I don't think Oda will be able to resist Luffy riding dragon Momo. I also wonder about Zoro's role since to me he's in the shadow of Ryuma and it would be disappointing if he never got his shot at taking down a dragon.
-
Oh nooooooo people who only view OP as a race who is "yonkou level" and for some reason can't shut up about Mihawk, the boringest character who has ever bored have found Arlong Park.
Couple of things: his title is World's Strongest Creature. And that's pretty much been the case thus far.
You'd be surprised too if 9 freaks suddenly stormed your party.It's not PTS fucking D you ignorant fucks. I know I shouldn't play with trolls but ughhhhh
-
Yeah, Luffy riding Momo to take a fight to the sky is pretty much a must, but it needs to be more than that otherwise its no different than in Skypeia where Nami gave him a motor scooter ride or FI when SHirahoshi helped with the boat.
Momo's been training to do a specific strike with a unique call out phrase, and loooots of hay has been made about all the uber swords (that Zoro is now using). There's stuff. Maybe Moo hits a weakpoint where the old scar is or something or hears the voice of all things and etc. etc.
-
I also wonder about Zoro's role since to me he's in the shadow of Ryuma and it would be disappointing if he never got his shot at taking down a dragon.
Zoro already paralleled Ryuma with the dragon on Punk Hazard. Of course Zoro is bound to be part of the fight against Kaido but if it parallels anyone, it will be Oden.
-
Zoro already paralleled Ryuma with the dragon on Punk Hazard. Of course Zoro is bound to be part of the fight against Kaido but if it parallels anyone, it will be Oden.
That dragon was a teaser. I would be very surprised if he doesn't get a hit either on Kaido, or takes down King. I'm also really interested in whether King will use his swords while flying.
-
This place turned into the powerscaling arena so quickly lol. Glad I don't invest so much in strength depiction. A character coughs blood or receives a scar and Oda is instantly worst writer. Powerscaling, meaningless sales and design runs this community.
-
That dragon was a teaser. I would be very surprised if he doesn't get a hit either on Kaido, or takes down King. I'm also really interested in whether King will use his swords while flying.
Yeah he's totally going to give a cut to Kaido. I don't know about King though and I doubt he will he use his sword when he is fighting at full strength; it just doesn't suit "Zoans".
-
Yeah he's totally going to give a cut to Kaido. I don't know about King though and I doubt he will he use his sword when he is fighting at full strength; it just doesn't suit "Zoans".
That's a good point. Maybe he'll be Kinemon's opponent. I dont' think he's strong enough to beat him, but King uses fire and Kinemon cuts it. He could be a part of the guys who beat him.
-
Oh nooooooo people who only view OP as a race who is "yonkou level" and for some reason can't shut up about Mihawk, the boringest character who has ever bored have found Arlong Park.
Couple of things: his title is World's Strongest Creature. And that's pretty much been the case thus far.
You'd be surprised too if 9 freaks suddenly stormed your party.It's not PTS fucking D you ignorant fucks. I know I shouldn't play with trolls but ughhhhh
When you get all sweaty with blood veins in your eyes what can it be ?
-
Fear? Shock? Is that the same as PTSD for you?
-
-
Anyway, as much as I would like Momo to give the final blow to Kaido, in large part to see the meltdown some people will have; I don't see Oda giving it to anybody but Luffy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Joy:
Yeah Kaido sees an imagine of Oden right before he gets wrecked by him and instead of PTSD it’s fear and shock from the scabbards. Even though you just outright tell to them that they can’t hurt you. Makes sense
Fear and shock for being reminded of Oden by them, yes.
