Nobody gives a crap about the serie yet it was constantly in top 5 Jump Toc ranking long before the animation. Clearly your hate for the serie blinds you.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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DS at heart (or at least Tanjiro which is the same difference) is largely the antithesis of OP (or at least Luffy).
So it goes without say that DS is not my cup of tea.
That said, I'm glad this cup of tea exists and that people can enjoy it.
I'd also like to study the series and find out what else people find attractive about it because obviously it's hitting very important personal notes for a lot of people.
I am also attempting this for Final Fantasy 15 and it is MELTING MY SOUL.
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It's funny that you mention Black Clover because it is exactly like it. The level of tropes, cliches, mediocre execution, lack of author-voice etc… are basically on-par with Black Cover.
There is a reason why the series, for most of its publication, was unknown. Nobody really gave a crap about it until the flashy anime showed up. It's a success for the author but let's not sit here and pretend that there is even an ouch of creative-input and some fresh approach that the series offers. It's as cliched and as soulless as a series can get right down to the design and personality of its main baddie.
It sort of reminds me of Fairytail with its lack of any author-voice and Gantz with its bleakness.
I won't be arguing about the quality and execution of a manga series that I read only 20 chapters around 4 years ago. It'll be a waste of time for everybody.
Anyway, Kimetsu was not unknown or dismissed by the audience of WSJ. It used to be in the top half of the Table of Contents from Jump fighting for Top 5, especially after Togashi himself praised the manga still in its first year of publication.
Obviously KnY didn't get to this level of hype before the anime… But let's not pretend now that every manga don't explode exponentially only after the release of the anime (even more here in the western world). It is th same for every other manga series. That's because the anime community is a lot bigger than the manga community, so it's through the anime that the respective manga find its wider audience and fanbase.
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Well it's no wonder that an adventure maniac with no empathy does not understand why people may like kimetsu
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I checked the first chapter of this series since everyone is talking about it now and well, the artwork is definitely not the greatest out there, I suppose the author gets better since they all do, I just thought that the bar was set much higher for Shonen(I haven't read any other for a long time) and is strange to me that the Author (if he did) took that questionable quality artwork as his signature style.
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Nobody gives a crap about the serie yet it was constantly in top 5 Jump Toc ranking long before the animation. Clearly your hate for the serie blinds you.
Ok, here is a thing my dude.
If you want to talk then do so. Pulling out the "stats" does not mean jack shit. Never did. Never will.
This is like the go-to-statement for people who A.) can't explain their line of thought or B.) simply don't have much to say.
So why don't you, for once, even attempt to put a single line of your thought instead of one-liners?
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Well it's no wonder that an adventure maniac with no empathy does not understand why people may like kimetsu
Wow, you are really into one-liners without saying anything of substance.
Here I was thinking that you might finally grow a pair and for once, attempt to say anything more than generic go-to-statements but I guess not.
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That will always be the issue. People that either lack taste or confidence to stand by their opinion. They have to go to pointless things like sales because most don't have common sense to say "wait, how does sales equate to quality". It's normalized and there's no way around it.
After Mob S2, Kimetsu and Enen would be my fav anime of last year
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It's a fundamentally poor argument. Like anyone having to use "well, so many people read it/like it/buy it so therefore IT HAS TO BE GOOD".
Instead of actually presenting even an ouch of "personal" opinion, they chose to use the single most cliched and lazy internet tactic.
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I checked the first chapter of this series since everyone is talking about it now and well, the artwork is definitely not the greatest out there, I suppose the author gets better since they all do, I just thought that the bar was set much higher for Shonen(I haven't read any other for a long time) and is strange to me that the Author (if he did) took that questionable quality artwork as his signature style.
Although a little bit rough around the edges (at least as far as I read), I actually enjoy the style. Very unique. And it draws me in for mysterious reasons. Maybe because sometimes it looks like a painting. Even the imperfections look more endearing than annoying.
One of the things that I like about mangas in general is that they look rather homemade despite being part of a huge industry, lol.
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Podcast
Just a curious; did Oda actually watch Lost Tv Show? If so what did he think of it?
Eitherway, that was a pretty short but awesome podcast.
Really curious to know how you came to see Luffy in that light? I think it's one of the most important aspect of the series that isn't discussed much.
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It's a fundamentally poor argument. Like anyone having to use "well, so many people read it/like it/buy it so therefore IT HAS TO BE GOOD".
Instead of actually presenting even an ouch of "personal" opinion, they chose to use the single most cliched and lazy internet tactic.
But it was you who brought the argument "There is a reason why the series, for most of its publication, was unknown. Nobody really gave a crap about it until the flashy anime showed up".
Kdom (and me) was answering it. -
Well I definitely agree that just because somethings popular doesn’t always mean it’s good, I wouldn’t exactly say popularity and quality aren’t sometimes intertwined
Some things that are trash become popular sure, but lots of other times things become big because there quality is so good that even the most idiotic among people can realize it’s something special
or a series just keeps consistently hitting it out of the park that people have faith in it for good reason
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The Toc ranking does not mean jack shit, it's clearly the best sign to know what japanese jump readers like and it is even more telling about the serie tendancy which Greg was talking about than sales but you can rub it off so you don't have to say you were wrong
I have always like the serie since the start and I have told my thoughts regularly in its thread. The author of Kimetsu is really strong in giving you impactful emotions. Reading it goes directly to your guts without artifice.
And yeah I may not be good at speaking my thoughts. I'm not that much a literary guy but I'm not that bad in picking quality titles. Guess who created the Spy x Family thread here and was one of the only poster in the Dungeon Meshi begining one…
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I’m personally not a fan of demon slayer…. but that’s just me
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Fairy Tail says hi.
Sword Art Online also says hi.
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I dunno, making the demons sympathetic and showing their backstories, generally right as they're killed, and having the lead be predisposed to feeling bad for them, was an interesting touch… if not explored as much as it could be.
That was an interesting touch and it could've been something at least good but to me it came across as Naruto-level of "FEEL BAD FOR THE VILLAIN" type deal with it's last-min backstory.
That's the only reason why I even started the series as I heard from my co-workers that the series supposedly had "deep" villain characters only to find out that the villain gets defeated, gets a sob flashback and then the main character feels bad for them. It feels very gimmicky that misses the chance to portray the villains in a different light. And the single biggest chance to do that would've been with the portrayal of the final villain but you what get instead is a wanna-be-Aizen that is so cliched that it would give Hiroshima a run for his money.
That's not even talking about how D.Gray Man also does something similar with greater effect.
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Although a little bit rough around the edges (at least as far as I read), I actually enjoy the style. Very unique. And it draws me in for mysterious reasons. Maybe because sometimes it looks like a painting. Even the imperfections look more endearing than annoying.
One of the things that I like about mangas in general is that they look rather homemade despite being part of a huge industry, lol.
Well I suppose this series kinda expose my lack of confidence on my own artwork, dammit.
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And yeah I may not be good at speaking my thoughts. I'm not that much a literary guy
You don't have to be a "literary" guy (whatever that means", you just have to attempt to communicate a single ouch of your thought-process.
I mean I thought that literally the point of online-message-boards; to communicate.
but I'm not that bad in picking quality titles. Guess who created the Spy x Family thread here and was one of the only poster in the Dungeon Meshi begining one…
Not really sure what that has to do with anything.
But I guess?
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Fairy Tail is a great manga
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How so?….....................
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You don't have to be a "literary" guy (whatever that means", you just have to attempt to communicate a single ouch of your thought-process.
I mean I thought that literally the point of online-message-boards; to communicate.
It's just to acknowledge that you are not wrong in my capacity to explain myself properly. Some people are better in argumenting than others
Yet you made one liner statement yourself too with stat don't mean shit. That's was just an easy way to win and avoid the fact that Kimetsu was popular way among the animeNot really sure what that has to do with anything.
But I guess?
It means my taste in discovering good mangas is not that bad
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Zeref wanted to be killed, but didn't make it easy. Never seen that in an antagonist really. Most of these manga do the same thing. I hold antagonist in high regard over anything else in the story.
Hiro captured what a family is when portraying each Guild. They weren't just groups of people with magic. They each had their issues or just silliness
Lucy's narrative didn't get suffocated by everything else going on like most female supporting cast. Her feelings and triumph was always front and center.
Some aspects gave me a break from how characters are handled in every other manga
Makarov is a top 5 gramps in manga
Natsu wasn't anything unique. Neither was his relationship with Gray. I would say that Erza being his big sis was cool tho
I'd go
10 Rurouni
9 Reborn
8 Fairy Tail
7 HxH
6 Kingdom
5 Bleach
4 Yu Yu
3 OP
2 Naruto
1 DB -
Just curious; why do you think that Kenshin, Reborn, Fairytail, Yuyu, Naruto and Bleach are good.
But don't think that Dorohedoro or Vagabond are good? How come?
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Naruto went so hard to shit that i sometimes forget that it started out alright.
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Naruto went so hard to shit that i sometimes forget that it started out alright.
The Zabuza and tournament stuff were great, but it always had two of the most annoying protagonists ever.
And when it really decided to mostly focus on the two main guys instead of the many other characters, and especially the world with its potential, it became apparent how lacking the two were and the series turned to shit.
The premise of shinobi going through missions had a lot of potential as well, and could have provided a possibility to expand the world more and more… -
I couldn't complete 20 chapters of those 2 manga. Intolerable is an understatement
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No sense trying to reason with someone who thinks fairy tail is good but vagabond isnt… lol
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Apart from the author being a perv i have no quarrels with kenshin either. It is one of those nostalgic shows for me so i tend to overlook its flaws
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Apart from the author being a perv i have no quarrels with kenshin either. It is one of those nostalgic shows for me so i tend to overlook its flaws
Well, yeah. The art can be separated from the artist.
I'm sure Kenshin is very important to Oda too since he assisted on it.
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Just curious; why do you think that Kenshin, Reborn, Fairytail, Yuyu, Naruto and Bleach are good.
But don't think that Dorohedoro or Vagabond are good? How come?
I suppose it's just a matter of what you're looking for in manga.
Dragon Ball, One Piece, Fairy Tail, Naruto, etc all have this focus on a lively world with cool, strange or quirky people in it. It's different from something like Vagabond, that's more focused on the personal and realistic struggles and relationships of the main characters.
Dorohedoro is a bit closer to the OP formula of having a cast of diverse personalities, but is otherwise quite grimy in terms of visuals.
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I already went into why Vagabond couldn't keep me as a reader in 1 thread. I'm guessing "reason with" in Dyco's context would mean to get me to like it. If I knew the intention was about changing my mind on that unbearable manga, I would've never entertained it. I will never be apart of that group that wants everyone to like what they like or think quality is equivalent to sales. The logic isn't sound there. Wanting your fav stories to be liked or popularized through recommending is pointless, unless you are familiar with the person's taste. From Uzumaki to Gon, my taste can not be easily labeled.
I like OP, but I don't care nor have the patience to tell someone what shortcuts to catch up. If you care, you're gonna try it on your own. All that wikia reading and arc skipping makes no sense if you really care to know the story. At that point, you're just trying to beat some challenge and want to tell everyone "hey look, I read 900 chapters".
Nobody deserves what I like to put it simply. Especially anything in my top 10. I see the low self esteem on social media everyday. "OP is underrated, please read it". People are apologizing for mangaka that made work they love, in order to get them to like Rurouni again. If you can dislike a story based on the actions of it's writer, you never liked it in the first place. Apologizing or any attempt to explain a stranger's disgusting actions is retarded.
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My comment wasn't very serious. Like whatever you want, read whatever you want, and don't enjoy whatever you want, but if you appreciate fairy tail as a manga more than Vagabond I believe our tastes and opinions clash in such a way that talking about it would be pointless, and you can't blame anyone for feeling that way. I also don't believe its your place to determine how much someone liked a series based on their reaction to finding out about gross, horrible things the author did. I enjoyed kenshin as a kid, a lot, but knowing that the author is a pedophile has soured my tastes drastically and I can't enjoy it because of that. You CAN separate art from the artist, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to. If you don't want to read something, or feel you can no longer enjoy it because the creator did bad things that is a very fair, very HUMAN reaction.
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I suppose it's just a matter of what you're looking for in manga.
Dragon Ball, One Piece, Fairy Tail, Naruto, etc all have this focus on a lively world with cool, strange or quirky people in it. It's different from something like Vagabond, that's more focused on the personal and realistic struggles and relationships of the main characters.
Dorohedoro is a bit closer to the OP formula of having a cast of diverse personalities, but is otherwise quite grimy in terms of visuals.
Eh, I understand the appeal aspect and obviously shonen series like those are going to have wider-range in terms of appealing.
I was merely curious since Cockycent had a pretty peculiar way of describing Vagabond but now basically says that he hasn't even gotten past the early stages of the series. Just odd to see someone be this hard on the series that they haven't even read properly. Especially considering the character-driven nature.
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Was I that hard on Vagabond? I usually give a manga 4-5 chapters. I went further than those 5 chapters because the person who recommended it to me knew my taste and put me onto OP, HxH, Kingdom, etc. Once I read the first 10 chapters, it's very hard for me not to see what it will or will not do when it comes to addressing larger plot points. Not specific, just how the characters will evolve and whether it will be character driven, story plot driven or a good balance of both.
I hear horror stories of people staying on shows and manga that they don't like because "I invested 5 seasons into this". That is very illogical. From my point of view, that person either doesn't know their own taste yet (i've been there) or they like to waste time on things they obviously don't like for some kind of privilege to speak on it among it's fans.
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Vagabond is great. Way better than just about any of the shonen's on the list there.
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It's not better than anything on that list because it's just not good in general.
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Its amazing how people can have a completely opposite opinion on something. No matter what some people may say it all comes down to taste. I think.
Vagabond is one of my all time favorites. Too bad Inoue lost interest in it.
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Since we have so many Vagabond fans here, has anyone read the books too (Musashi, by Eiji Yoshikawa)? How does the manga series compare to them?
I read the books when I was a teenager and didn't become a big fan of it. That's why I never bothered to read Vagabond even though I like Slam Dunk a lot.
Maybe I should give it a chance.
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The manga diverges quite a bit from the novel from what I've read. I haven't really read the novel though. Maybe I should…:ninja:
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What’s vagabond about? I’ve heard good things but I’ve never read it
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It's not better than anything on that list because it's just not good in general.
It's ok to hold those mediocre series in high regard. That's your opinion and all.
But please don't sit there and talk about the series like you even scratch the very basic surface level of what it's trying to convey.
Like you yourself stated how you haven't even read past the first 20 chapters and barely even got to experience what the series REALLY offers.
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What’s vagabond about? I’ve heard good things but I’ve never read it
It follows the romanticized history of Miyamoto Musashi, known as the greatest samurai ever, as he learns about bushido, philosophy, craftsmanship and develops his two-sword style. Not that he really was the best samurai ever, but he got this fame when japanese people started doing glorified theater plays about him during the 18th century, and then Eiji Yoshikawa published the 20th century best seller Musashi.
There's a love story too in the books too in case you're interested.
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It's ok to hold those mediocre series in high regard. That's your opinion and all.
But please don't sit there and talk about the series like you even scratch the very basic surface level of what it's trying to convey.
Like you yourself stated how you haven't even read past the first 20 chapters and barely even got to experience what the series REALLY offers.
It's a bad series. Yes, I will continue to tell the truth. You think what you say can change it's level of quality?
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i understood opinion couldn't be an argument
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Since we have so many Vagabond fans here, has anyone read the books too (Musashi, by Eiji Yoshikawa)? How does the manga series compare to them?
I read the books when I was a teenager and didn't become a big fan of it. That's why I never bothered to read Vagabond even though I like Slam Dunk a lot.
Maybe I should give it a chance.
Slam Dunk is a great sports shonen series and easily one of my favorites and I'll take it over Kenshin and Yuyu from the same era any day of the week.
But it's by far Inoue weakest series and doesn't really tell you much about his writing.
Real and Vagabond are where Inoue's character writing ultimately shines and how brilliantly he elevates his characters by exploring personal and philosophical ideas that are very deeply relatable to teengers/young adults/adults. If shonen series are "entertaining", Real and Vagabond are "enlightening".
If you care about mindless action, one-liners, people getting punched etc…. then Vagabond and Real are't for you.
But if you like to read personal journey tales that will stay with you long after you finish reading/getting caught up then they are for you.
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Comparing manga and novels are a bit of a stretch. Vagabond is a work of art, it is just beautiful to look at no matter if you are interested in the story or not. Even if the story wasn't good the artwork can more than make up for it, draw in readers and keep them. For novels all they have are the narrative, characters, and world building which requires you to imagine it.
I mean everyone has their own tastes and opinions though. I read 100+ chapters of Fairy Tail because I needed to kill time and figured it would be the most interesting thing I had available but I can't say I ever loved it or cared about the characters at all. For comparison I think Bleach was levels of magnitude better and I'll admit the writing in Bleach was not great. Enough to make me quit it during Quincy arc. Yet I liked the art, world, interesting characters and powers which was enough to keep me reading for a long time. If Bleach had been a novel I might have stopped reading much sooner.
Just from Cockycent's opinions he seems to like bright, lively, fantasy-inspired worlds with very different characters occupying them. So just don't recommend him the dark, somber, gory stuff.
Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi
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Comparing manga and novels are a bit of a stretch. Vagabond is a work of art, it is just beautiful to look at no matter if you are interested in the story or not. Even if the story wasn't good the artwork can more than make up for it, draw in readers and keep them. For novels all they have are the narrative, characters, and world building which requires you to imagine it.
I mean everyone has their own tastes and opinions though. I read 100+ chapters of Fairy Tail because I needed to kill time and figured it would be the most interesting thing I had available but I can't say I ever loved it or cared about the characters at all. For comparison I think Bleach was levels of magnitude better and I'll admit the writing in Bleach was not great. Enough to make me quit it during Quincy arc. Yet I liked the art, world, interesting characters and powers which was enough to keep me reading for a long time. If Bleach had been a novel I might have stopped reading much sooner.
Just from Cockycent's opinions he seems to like bright, lively, fantasy-inspired worlds with very different characters occupying them. So just don't recommend him the dark, somber, gory stuff.
Is Uzumaki not gory?
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It's a bad series. Yes, I will continue to tell the truth. You think what you say can change it's level of quality?
I or you don't decide anything lol.
Vagabond is an excellently crafted character journey tale. Literally anyone who has read couple of volumes and possess even an ouch of reading-comprehension can tell you why.
You literally stating above that you haven't even read more than 20 chapters and yet claim to talk trash about the series is fundamentally stupid and I know for sure that you know that.
Like good luck trying to say that The Room is a higher quality film then Blade Runner 2049 and expect to be taken seriously.
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Nah, Uzumaki Naruto is a pretty chill laid back dude who makes friends with some of his enemies.
Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi
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Nah, Uzumaki Naruto is a pretty chill laid back dude who makes friends with some of his enemies.
Not Naruto. You're not familiar with Junji, so I understand the confusion
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I or you don't decide anything lol.
Vagabond is an excellently crafted character journey tale. Literally anyone who has read couple of volumes and possess even an ouch of reading-comprehension can tell you why.
You literally stating above that you haven't even read more than 20 chapters and yet claim to talk trash about the series is fundamentally stupid and I know for sure that you know that.
Like good luck trying to say that The Room is a higher quality film then Blade Runner 2049 and expect to be taken seriously.
I leave that to people who want their opinion to be accepted. It's pretty consistent with what you are doing right now. There is no luck needed
I've said what i've said. Maybe you're used to people struggling to articulate how they feel.
Also, I have no clue what either of those are
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This post is deleted!
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It follows the romanticized history of Miyamoto Musashi, known as the greatest samurai ever, as he learns about bushido, philosophy, craftsmanship and develops his two-sword style. Not that he really was the best samurai ever, but he got this fame when japanese people started doing glorified theater plays about him during the 18th century, and then Eiji Yoshikawa published the 20th century best seller Musashi.
There's a love story too in the books too in case you're interested.
That's the basic concept of Vagabond, yes.
But ultimately Inoue, somewhere along the line, goes off into his own direction and starts to use the entire premise and the characters to convey incredibly personal and philosophical themes.
Even the main character starts off the series with no ouch of regard for human life and just being a "beast" all around but then he starts to transform, alongside the series, and becomes more of an wise and incredible person.
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Maybe you're used to people struggling to articulate how they feel.
You don't have thoughts on the series.
You may think you do but you don't.
But nice try with the whole emoji thing. Seems like the only thing of substance you can offer.
