I did say in the spoiler thread that the Prometheus panel will be the most impressive, it delivered. Back to Katakuri then, my kind of chapter. Luffy hasn't had a fight like this in forever
Chapter 891: Believing in me
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If the Marines do get involved at the end, I hope Ryokugyu is there.
Anyways, Mangastream didn't translate the sound effect, but Flambe is making the "Boyon!" sound. Meaning she's bouncing on her cushion dress and not using it to float.
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@.access:
Sadly, her presentation turned Sanji into a consummate pedophile as she is the 33rd daughter at 15 years and Pudding is the 35th. The only reason why I am not seriously bothered by Oda making a 21yo man who happens to be one of the main characters being completely aroused by a kid that is 14 years at best is because I am holding my hopes that Flanbé's introduction box is wrong (either she will be older in the volume or she will be rectified to be the 36th).
No mention of Zeus by Linlin in this chapter makes me feel like he may be allowed to stay with the SH. And I can't put a finger on what relevance the BMP finding out about the Tamatebako at this point could have…
Big Mum with her power made pudding get older by taking "years" from her in order to get her third eyes power mature faster because BM can not wait for that eye to awake…
so "technicaly" Pudding now is easely 20 - 25 years old
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I have to agree with the people complaining about the current chapter's pacing. The bubble gum sister just felt like total filler and waste of panel time which could have gone to Chopper or something instead. We already knew about Katakuri's importance as a perfect reliable big bro from Brulée. No need to repeat it and introduce a character who is not going to appear ever again (I'll bet on this with anyone who wants to and change my avatar to this girl if I lose). But on the other hand, after that part, the chapter just got better and better. The "Believing in me" page and the gigantic Prometheus spread were just wonderful. Beautiful from storytelling and visual points of view. But I do think Oda has big pacing problems in the action portions of his arcs. Between the mid-point and the climax, there is a lot of time wasted in small boring stuff and repetitions which detract from the main characters. But I think it has been a problem in every larger arc since Skypiea. This arc is definitely on the better side of it for me.
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@O:
Big Mum with her power made pudding get older by taking "years" from her in order to get her third eyes power mature faster because BM can not wait for that eye to awake…
so "technicaly" Pudding now is easely 20 - 25 years old
Some people suggested she could have been adopted instead of being Linlin's biological daughter, in that case she could be older than her placement suggests.
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@.access:
That… actually could work.
Some people suggested she could have been adopted instead of being Linlin's biological daughter, in that case she could be older than her placement suggests.
For what it's worth, it is unusual how Big Mom is placing all her hopes on Pudding's three-eye tribe heritage unlocking to read the Poneglyphs…...and not one mention of her father, who should also be a three-eye, as well.
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@.access:
That… actually could work.
Some people suggested she could have been adopted instead of being Linlin's biological daughter, in that case she could be older than her placement suggests.
it's a bit a far fetched but I'll be a be proud if it ever happen to be right ;)
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@O:
it's a bit a far fetched but I'll be a be proud if it ever happen to be right ;)
Actually, thinking about it again, no one got older by losing their life energy to BM. Pedro lost 50 years but still looked just as old.
I wonder if she can make people "mature" by inserting life into them, though… (although that seems to be something you would expect from Bonney's DF)
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I have to agree with the people complaining about the current chapter's pacing. The bubble gum sister just felt like total filler and waste of panel time which could have gone to Chopper or something instead. We already knew about Katakuri's importance as a perfect reliable big bro from Brulée. No need to repeat it and introduce a character who is not going to appear ever again (I'll bet on this with anyone who wants to and change my avatar to this girl if I lose). But on the other hand, after that part, the chapter just got better and better. The "Believing in me" page and the gigantic Prometheus spread were just wonderful. Beautiful from storytelling and visual points of view. But I do think Oda has big pacing problems in the action portions of his arcs. Between the mid-point and the climax, there is a lot of time wasted in small boring stuff and repetitions which detract from the main characters. But I think it has been a problem in every larger arc since Skypiea. This arc is definitely on the better side of it for me.
I'll accept that bet. If I lose, eh, you can pick the avatar
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I have to agree with the people complaining about the current chapter's pacing. The bubble gum sister just felt like total filler and waste of panel time which could have gone to Chopper or something instead. We already knew about Katakuri's importance as a perfect reliable big bro from Brulée. No need to repeat it and introduce a character who is not going to appear ever again (I'll bet on this with anyone who wants to and change my avatar to this girl if I lose).
The only named character to witness the defeat of the undefeated pride of the Charlotte family not appearing again?
Also, remember that Katakuri's will to keep his little secret still didn't played a part in this fight and it will only have any weigh if there are eyes to which it can be exposed. We can't tell for sure which part Flambé is going to play in this fight, but it seems obvious her introduction will serve a purpose beyond this very chapter. -
@.access:
Actually, thinking about it again, no one got older by losing their life energy to BM. Pedro lost 50 years but still looked just as old.
I wonder if she can make people "mature" by inserting life into them, though… (although that seems to be something you would expect from Bonney's DF)
indeed, i believe you are right… we have to face something is wrong with Sanji, lol
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I think it’s more so Oda might have messed up, cuss Pudding is clearly drawn older.
Something is wrong with Sanji but he’s not that bad.
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Look at that! I was 100% right that Chopper was gonna go Monster. I even predicted this after the Spoilers were released and lucky for me they didn't include this.
Its obviously gotta mean something too. Doesn't Chopper become paralyzed after using Monster Form? Surely this is not gonna get wasted.
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I'm not sure if VIZ can even legally publish this. The US doesn't play around with that shit.
Watch the chapter is delayed on Monday, cause they're frantically yelling at Shueisha on the phone :ninja:
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Am I the only one who liked Flambe?:ninja:I thought she was fun and I like the design, but most people seem rather annoyed that panel time was wasted on her.
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At the very least, not all races seem to age the same. Here's Hajrudin at age 18:
So Pudding being pretty young would still be pretty weird, but not out of the question.
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I'd like to be hyped about Chopper going monster, but since he got wrecked by the forest I kinda expect nothing from at all him against Bigmom.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
There is no way Pudding is 14 guys. After all, she's calling Luffy and co. "children" if I recall right
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Am I the only one who liked Flambe?:ninja:I thought she was fun and I like the design, but most people seem rather annoyed that panel time was wasted on her.
No, I definetly like her. I laughed when she said "im the girl who'll become the little sister king!" It sounded like Oda mocking his own main-character
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@Kaido:
At the very least, not all races seem to age the same. Here's Hajrudin at age 18:
[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/5Q7628w.jpg?1[/qimg]
So Pudding being pretty young would still be pretty weird, but not out of the question.
That’s a giant though, it’s fine for being like them.
I don’t think a being with a 3rd eye will have their biology much.
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Oda could always come up with some excuse like that.
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I really liked this chapter. The choreography in the Luffy vs Katakuri fight was astounding and I like how the fight with Katakuri finally gained more relevancy and gravitas in relation to Totland's overall situation. Despite Luffy sacrificing himself for his crew, it felt too remote and spread out to truly get into until now.
I also hope that Chopper being so powerless, in both being outshined by Carrot and desperately trying to commit suicide by taking Big Mom down with him so desperately in this chapter pays off in a major moment for him later in this arc. Or at least kickstarts some character development that makes him want to improve his capabilities somehow.
Oh god this so much, lol.
I wonder who actually truly understands that term in this medium within this weekly format?
Pacing is the ever lasting word around here that I loath because all people do is parrot it and I know for sure half of em don't understand squat.
Thematic is the second word. Yeah I'm looking at you Count Mario! You brought that word over from the old country and suddenly everyone is a seasoned writer.
Thank you, thank you, you're too kind. XD
And I've actually been satisfied by the pacing for the last dozen chapters or so. Yes, I would prefer it if we didn't have to technically repeat scenarios like the Straw Hats being cornered by Big Mom at sea twice, or Nami using Zeus against Big Mom twice, or the awkward gaps in Luffy and Katakuri's fight being detrimental to reader investment. But those are mainly issues with the execution of these encounters, not me actually minding that the Big Mom chase has lasted this long. I really like how we're seeing a good amount of time dedicated to the action and character interactions since the Straw Hats left the shore. All of this is WAY more interesting than all of the running in the middle of Dressrosa.
@Kaido:
I liked the scene with Flambe a lot, because it shed more light on Katakuri's character and role in the crew. When Luffy takes him down, it's going to be a BIG deal.
I completely agree with this. This is actually what the issue was for me in Luffy bearing Katakuri before this chapter. How unlike all of Luffy's big fights, barely anybody is present to witness Luffy's victory in a meaningful way. This is how the fights have always been more important than just two strong people beating the hell out of one another because standard good versus evil. Luffy's victories are supposed to either give cathartic hope to his allies (Luffy versus Doflamingo) or unrelenting disillusionment to his doubters (Luffy vs Bellamy). Luffy vs Katakuri is meant to be like the latter example now that we have seen how much of a pedestal the Charlottes put Katakuri in and how much Katakuri can't stand how much weakness is shown in falling on your back even once. I really appreciate the depth Katakuri and his fight with Luffy has gotten. Now I don't have any problem with whether or not Luffy knocks Katakuri unconscious or only puts him on his back for a bit without Katakuri being truly defeated.
@Kaido:
If the Marines do get involved at the end, I hope Ryokugyu is there.
Same.
I have to agree with the people complaining about the current chapter's pacing. The bubble gum sister just felt like total filler and waste of panel time which could have gone to Chopper or something instead. We already knew about Katakuri's importance as a perfect reliable big bro from Brulée.
We already heard about it from Brûlée, but… it was only from Brûlée. Back then, it only felt like typical smug minion audience trash talk to me. Not really anywhere else. So I appreciate this chapter showing not just the sister, but a whole bunch of people eagerly anticipating the results of Luffy's fight with Katakuri. Now I really see how important Katakuri's existence is to his family.
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@Kaido:
At the very least, not all races seem to age the same. Here's Hajrudin at age 18:
https://i.imgur.com/5Q7628w.jpg?1
So Pudding being pretty young would still be pretty weird, but not out of the question.
Giants lifespans are 3x humans so I assume he's realy like 6 here in human years and although he's like 80-90 now he's in his mid-late twenties
Im still betting it'll either be due to her being adopted, some memory shenanigans or oda just made a mistake with the number for Flambeè. Oda has stuck to his no fanservice under 16 standard for a while and while pudding really hasnt had a lot of that either his drawing style is also different.
I feel this may take a while to learn what is the case but I dont think pudding is under 16 years old
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I do like how Luffy is beginning to "bloom" his haki in this difficult fight to see the future as does Katakuri. I'm sure Luffy will show to notice it, and begin to harness it, and Katakuri likewise will start to worry and become flustered and angry at Luffy becoming more powerful.
It certainly seems that Katakuri could have mastered this haki at a very young age against someone incredibly strong, and since then has remained undefeated. If what Rayleigh stated is true, you cannot truly train such a great haki unless you encounter/fight someone stronger, then this must hold true for him. It would be nice to see a quick flashback of Katakuri's past as Luffy starts to punch the shit out of him. In that way, hopefully it can calm some fans that think this "power-up" is shitty.
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It is odd Flambe's age was mentioned in her introduction, but Oda has messed a few things up in the arc like the Mochi-Mochi Fruit being a Logia, and Praline and Joscaprone having the same birth order…
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I'm still not sure how to process Luffy acclimating himself to foresight Observation Haki. I feel like there is more than a 50% chance that it becomes as irrelevant as Observation Haki usually is post-Fishman Island. I feel as though it's too tricky for Oda to constantly incorporate into fights without them becoming too complex to follow or have fun with.
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@Count:
I'm still not sure how to process Luffy acclimating himself to foresight Observation Haki. I feel like there is more than a 50% chance that it becomes as irrelevant as Observation Haki usually is post-Fishman Island. I feel as though it's too tricky for Oda to constantly incorporate into fights without them becoming too complex to follow or have fun with.
huh? Who is not having fun with the way Katakuri fights? Anyway, I doubt Luffy will see future like Katakuri, I think he will only be able to read Katakuri attacks very well which in turn "may" frustrate Katakuri.
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So Katakuri will get mental breakdown after Luffy smashes his back into the ground ?
Then Katakuri will be unable to process what happened and Luffy will use that moment when Katakuris emotions take over to take him out ?
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huh? Who is not having fun with the way Katakuri fights? Anyway, I doubt Luffy will see future like Katakuri, I think he will only be able to read Katakuri attacks very well which in turn "may" frustrate Katakuri.
Katakuri's battle is fun because of his Devil Fruit. The foresight stuff is mostly interchangeable with having superior speed stats if you look at the panels without context from the text.
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@Count:
Katakuri's battle is fun because of his Devil Fruit. The foresight stuff is mostly interchangeable with having superior speed stats if you look at the panels without context from the text.
Its like Luffy fighting Dark Luffy.
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@Count:
I was thinking more Waluffy or Shadow the Monkey.
Isn't Blackbeard more like Waluffy?
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@S.C.:
Isn't Blackbeard more like Waluffy?
Good point.
I guess Bellamy is… Bizarro lol.
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@Count:
Good point.
I guess Bellamy is… Bizarro lol.
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Good thing Katakuri continues to give Luffy a hard time, so we don't get a weird 180° turnaround and subsequent victory of Luffy out of the blue. Can't wait for him to be beaten, loosing his muffler in the final beatdown, only for Flambe to loose her mind about his giant mouth full of sharp teeth, subsequently realizing she should actually be worried about him having been beaten. Now that the cake is almost at Big Mum it will be interesting to see how the entire situation will finally play out.
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I quite like Flambe's introduction; she really looks quirky and fits with the family. As for Oda specifying her actual age in her introduction box I can think of a few reasons. Firstly, the age of marriage in Japan is 16 and Oda has (for better or for worse) faithfully stuck to not sexualising anyone under the age of 16 so Oda's point for specifying Flambe as 15 is to say: look reader, this girl is underage and will not be sexualised, she is the epitome of innocent and naive little sister who idolises her precious big brother. Look at her clothes even, she is mostly covered and reminds me of Baby 5 when she was 14-15.
The fight with luffy makes me think that we will see Luffy level-up his Observation Haki but it might be slightly different than Kata's.
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@Count:
I'm still not sure how to process Luffy acclimating himself to foresight Observation Haki. I feel like there is more than a 50% chance that it becomes as irrelevant as Observation Haki usually is post-Fishman Island. I feel as though it's too tricky for Oda to constantly incorporate into fights without them becoming too complex to follow or have fun with.
Couldn't agree more with this. What we're seeing in the current fight is what observation haki should have been doing all along anyway - for proficient users at least - when instead it mostly served to as a hype tool against mooks. I feel this new level of progression will only serve to bring Luffy on par with Yonkou (commander)-tier opponents without changing much in how the action looks to the reader.
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From now on one piece fights will look like this
! >!
! >!
! >!
! >! -
Oda, do you really think introduicing new character now is a good idea? It's too late to introduce important character (even Katakuri seems somewhat weird with skipping first 30 chapters and becoming shared main villain) and if she's a filler, it's way too late for that right now as well. Unless she's a character for future arcs, but I doubt that.
Anyway, is Pudding really supposed to be no older than 15? Well, in my country it's legal age (:ninja:), so I have nothing against Sanji, but it's still looks somewhat weird. Making a mistake in numbering with tertiary characters like Praline or Joscarpone is one thing, but Pudding is among this arc's main characters. Unless it's Flambe that has the wrong numbering. Also, if Pudding is really 15 years old than her actions this arc suddenly feel substantially more natural,
As for Luffy, I'm on-board with Count Mario on this one. I could see ability like this working for Usopp, but with Luffy it was usually all creativity and thinking out of the window once we're past the halfway of the fight, I don't believe in Oda changing it, especially that most of the fans like it that way. So it's gonna be downplayed later leading to countless questions of "why didn't he just…" and making all of this a pointless filler... or am I being too negative here?
The best thing about this chapter is that we're likely finished with the transitory period and we can start the climax proper. I'm especially glad that cake is here before th Vinsmokes.
EDIT: I forgot is this chapter implying that Katakuri's future seeing is reading intent and aura lik what we've seen in Skypiea? Because that's definitely not how it worked when he saw Pudding falling during the wedding. Oh well... I hope everyone sees why I don't think Oda can go anywhere with this.
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Oda, do you really think introduicing new character now is a good idea? It's too late to introduce important character (even Katakuri seems somewhat weird with skipping first 30 chapters and becoming shared main villain) and if she's a filler, it's way too late for that right now as well. Unless she's a character for future arcs, but I doubt that.
This is all very true, but I came to terms with how a bunch of things about Katakuri's existence seem last minute ever since seeing Katakuri's out of nowhere snack time session in the Mirror World. The spectators in this chapter give the fight more weight than it had before, so while it is far from perfect, I'll take what I can get.The best thing about this chapter is that we're likely finished with the transitory period and we can start the climax proper. I'm especially glad that cake is here before th Vinsmokes.
A part of me is hoping for a random twist of that ship in the distance being the Vinsmokes to troll everybody's expectations lol.
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@Count:
This is all very true, but I came to terms with how a bunch of things about Katakuri's existence seem last minute ever since seeing Katakuri's out of nowhere snack time session in the Mirror World. The spectators in this chapter give the fight more weight than it had before, so while it is far from perfect, I'll take what I can get.
Well, I too enjoy Katakuri, he's my favorite newly-introduced character this arc, ad favorite WCI-villain as well.
A part of me is hoping for a random twist of that ship in the distance being the Vinsmokes to troll everybody's expectations lol.
Usually I would be all for the troll like this, but we've been in "running" period of this arc for 20 chapters now I think, longer than in Dressrosa. It's time to stop.
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One thing i do enjoy about the BM pirates is that their organization seem to be very flat in it's hierarchy. BM herself seems to do very little ruling beyond throwing fits based on food or temper and the siblings who make things happen don't really seem to pull rank on each other. Like if they didn't hammer home official ranks in the intro boxes i would have a hard time telling who's above or below who just based on their interactions with each other.
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@Count:
I'm still not sure how to process Luffy acclimating himself to foresight Observation Haki. I feel like there is more than a 50% chance that it becomes as irrelevant as Observation Haki usually is post-Fishman Island. I feel as though it's too tricky for Oda to constantly incorporate into fights without them becoming too complex to follow or have fun with.
Couldn't agree more with this. What we're seeing in the current fight is what observation haki should have been doing all along anyway - for proficient users at least - when instead it mostly served to as a hype tool against mooks. I feel this new level of progression will only serve to bring Luffy on par with Yonkou (commander)-tier opponents without changing much in how the action looks to the reader.
Was thinking about it as well. The use of "time prediction" in fights is no different from the regular use of CoO, it just lets you avoid the enemy attacks with maybe a bonus of also making you connect your attacks more accurately.
The only reason why it is a big deal in Katakuri's hands is because Oda is taking much of his time to focus on it, something I doubt he will keep doing in Luffy's fights (otherwise they will become repetitive), but even so there was a time in this fight we were wondering if he was using this ability in the fight or just regular CoO because they are pretty much the same in a fight context.Usually I would be all for the troll like this, but we've been in "running" period of this arc for 20 chapters now I think, longer than in Dressrosa. It's time to stop.
To be fair, the problem with Dressrosa's "running period" was that it seemed like a mess. The characters were running around, back and forth, in a rearranged place which structure we couldn't really grasp so we didn't really have any idea of how much they were advancing, how much ground was being gaining in each chapter… it just seemed like running in circles until suddenly get to Doflamingo.
Compared to it, this one seems much more controlled. We always have a clear idea of where the characters are, where they are going and how much is left until they can get there (thanks to Oda constantly showing us what time it is).Usually, the very thought of the Vinsmoke appearing is enough to bore me, but I have to admit I loved this idea of them arriving first with the "sweet aroma". It would be interesting to see how this would play out if they are coming with a poisoned cake and how Sanji could interfere in it... this could be really good.
Also, everything about Sanji's cake became too predictable at this point since Oda used pretty much every scene about it to make clear which effect it will have on BM and how it will play out, so we can somehow be sure something is going to happen to subvert their expectations. -
One thing i do enjoy about the BM pirates is that their organization seem to be very flat in it's hierarchy. BM herself seems to do very little ruling beyond throwing fits based on food or temper and the siblings who make things happen don't really seem to pull rank on each other. Like if they didn't hammer home official ranks in the intro boxes i would have a hard time telling who's above or below who just based on their interactions with each other.
Well, Cracker only interacted with Brulee and he clearly seemed superior to her, Katakuri is obviously the acting leader right now. Snack was never seen. And Smoothie… never did anything. So I think it's more of Smoothie sucking than the hierarchy being "flat". Though what's surprising is Mont d'Or taking the command when Katakuri is not around even though he has no special rank, with no one questioning him. Tamago also while polite, finds himself in place to order the children around and lecture them.
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@.access:
To be fair, the problem with Dressrosa's "running period" was that it seemed like a mess. The characters were running around, back and forth, in a rearranged place which structure we couldn't really grasp so we didn't really have any idea of how much they were advancing, how much ground was being gaining in each chapter… it just seemed like running in circles until suddenly get to Doflamingo.
Compared to it, this one seems much more controlled. We always have a clear idea of where the characters are, where they are going and how much is left until they can get there (thanks to Oda constantly showing us what time it is).Usually, the very thought of the Vinsmoke appearing is enough to bore me, but I have to admit I loved this idea of them arriving first with the "sweet aroma". It would be interesting to see how this would play out if they are coming with a poisoned cake and how Sanji could interfere in it... this could be really good.
Also, everything about Sanji's cake became too predictable at this point since Oda used pretty much every scene about it to make clear which effect it will have on BM and how it will play out, so we can somehow be sure something is going to happen to subvert their expectations.Great observations, personally it's going to take something big to save this arc.
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I swear to God, I'm terrified of the possibility that debates over whether or not Luffy is using normal or foresight Observation Haki without commentary in future arcs are going to be as futile as when people debate about colorless and colored Armament Haki.
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Next chapter:
- Big Mom in front of the cake to eat it.
- Luffy defeats Katakuri and exits the mirror world.
- Luffy sees the cake and begins to eat it just before Big Mom ^^
- The look on everyone faces
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This is what I think Flambe's role will be:
Firstly, we know that Kata has a lot of pride and views very minuscule failures as highly shameful (falling on one's back) and that Flambe is the epitome of little sister admires her infallible big brother.
My theory is that Flambe will witness Kata's first failure and Kata will expect Flambe to laugh at him or start hating him but she actually comes to his defence and Kata will learn that it is not shameful to fail as long as you get up to fight again.
This leads me to believe that the Kata vs Luffy fight will end in a sort of draw (however, this will only happen if Oda has planned to make Big Mom into an antagonist for another arc such as the destruction of Fishman island).
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…...And how many times is Oda going to hint at Katakuri's defeat before his precious fans accept that he will be defeated?
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…...And how many times is Oda going to hint at Katakuri's defeat before his precious fans accept that he will be defeated?
What i feel is Luffy not defeating completly Big Mom but a draw with Katakuri. I see Big Mom letting them leave after eating the cake and Sanji getting an enormous boost in his wanted bounty. A chef capable of knocking out an emperor?
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…...And how many times is Oda going to hint at Katakuri's defeat before his precious fans accept that he will be defeated?
I'll assume this was meant to be for me because I suggested a draw and I apologise beforehand if it wasn't.
I'm not a Kata fanboy and up until last chapter I was completely sure that Kata will get completely defeated by Luffy in this arc and that Big Mom will be neutralised by the cake (i.e she will not chase them/be indebted to them). However, the mention of the tamate box by Stussy to Tamago makes me think that BM will be set off again and that Kata will seek a re-match. The reason I think that the BM crew will re-appear is mainly due to smoothie and the tamale box. Oda's not one to introduce a sweet commander and not showcase her so if Smoothie is showcased in this arc then chances of Kata being completely defeated goes back up again.
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…...And how many times is Oda going to hint at Katakuri's defeat before his precious fans accept that he will be defeated?
Katakuri is the new Doflamingo