@Nilitch:
I said it with incredulity because lol at the military protecting anything more than radical to far-right wingers.
Secularism in Turkey is deeply tied into their modern nationalism, so in fact it has a right-wing edge to it yes. This is still Turkey 101.
(even though, tankie soldiers exist of course– somwhere).
This is the other problem with your assumption, militaries can support all sorts of things in coups.
The conservative military can be far-left in a Chinese or Soviet context.
"We did the coup to protect the republican institutions" is literally the same old crap every military guy making a coup has been saying since uhhh Sylla (Iguess)
You're making the turkish military sound like wise heroes who are protecting modernity…
Instead of acting as incredulous as I thought, how about you read like… anything at all about the Republic of Turkey's history. It's getting silly at this point.
btw, "The turks have been through many coups before, they can do it again!" is really the dumbest thing you've ever said about Turkey.
….how lol.
Especially since the last one has completely annihilated the left.
I have no idea how this in any way changes or effects anything I said? Even in your own mind as a factual statement?
You're looking at Turkish politics far too binary, as some left/right simplicity when there are huge other overlapping political identities at play.
Like you literally can't process the other major party, the CHP, by simple left/right binary thinking.
I'm saying "some soldiers –-maybe including some who are okay with Gülen, (but btw, obviously including a majority of Kemalists) --- fucked up and made a stupid kamikaze coup".
You're just twisting everything I say, as always.
I didn't even say "there wouldn't have been a coup if Gülen didn't exist" ! which is why I said "it wouldn't make any difference in the end if some of his followers had taken part in the coup"
So, let's just end this discussion about wether or not some soldiers who did the coup have read Gülen's books or not.
The problem is everything you're doing and building as theories and arguments is resting on top a rotten foundation of Erdogan's paranoia/propaganda.
hey, but what is an Islamist again ?
Someone mixing in religion and politics as a matter of policy and identity. This is not remotely controversial for Gulen considering well…. Gulen. Whom I still think you haven't read anything about.
Turkey has always been Islamist.
This is absurdly wrong.
btw I noticed you completely ignored or tried to wander by when I mentioned another super towering figure in Turkish politics.
The biggest possible elephant in the room imaginable and you still seem unaware of him. This guy who couldn't be more central to the Turkish Republic's history if he tried, who the military has traditionally existed fully in loyalty to his legacy.
Turkey's Napoleon and DeGaulle combined. Their George Washington, their Churchill.
Like, dude.
Erdogan was chill a few years ago (more like 10years ago).
Erdogan was always a Putin Jr waiting to happened, and his pedigree goes back to a line of crappy right wing shitheads, namely Necmettin Erbakan.
Are you referring to the kind of secularism Erdogan was okay with back then ?
Erdogan has since political day one been part of Islamist political parties and movements.
Gülen IS promoting a moderate Islam, Erdogan is not.
Correct.
They're both still Islamists.