Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!
-
-
Because the alternative to not voting could very well be Donald Trump? And it was?
-
How many years of post elections depresion have I endured?
Why should people vote if they base their vote in things like "he looked at me funny" or "there was this scandal that I know nothing about but it seems bad"?
Because we humans are petty and ignorant like that.
-
Because we humans are petty and ignorant like that.
I think it's more complex than that.
Here's a potential insight, which could explain for example why Trump won in certain blue states. It's an interesting read, even if you end disagreeing with it. More perspective is always good, especially coming from a neutral one.
And here's a post-election speech from the same writer.
-
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-pence-transgender-students-aa32ee93cdb7#.lfp2wb8cm
Pence declares that yes, trump will be an anti-LGBT president.
That didn't take long.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/former-kkk-leader-david-duke-075823237.html
KKK leader David Duke declares this is a great day. "Our people played a huge role in electing Trump!"
Congrats folks. You're on the side of the KKK.
-
The Cracked article was already skewered when it was originally posted.
-
The Cracked article was already skewered when it was originally posted.
The fact that traditionally blue states went red in this election also makes it relevant again. Not focusing on the blue-collar workers from those states is being pointed out as a key reason Clinton lost.
Lesson: don't dismiss other point of views. That just causes more division and emboldens the opposition itself. And that causes people like Trump to win.
Also, read the second article of that post. There's still hope.
-
Should we be surprised by Trump's strategy for changing the EPA? Probably not.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/
-
Fifth term President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko has congratulated Donald Trump on his expected US presidential election victory.
@Alexander:
Your victory proves that American people chose in favor of the politics that is based on honesty, responsibility and searching for change. Having an active, sincere and courageous position during the election campaign, you have shaken up the American society returning it to a real democracy.
Bat'ska (bel. daddy) knows everything there is to know about real democracy.
-
Lesson: don't dismiss other point of views. That just causes more division and emboldens the opposition itself. And that causes people like Trump to win.
While I don't disagree with this depending on the reasoning or topic within the view they can be dismissed. Especially those that have to do with specific beliefs.
-
While I don't disagree with this depending on the reasoning or topic within the view they can be dismissed. Especially those that have to do with specific beliefs.
Yes, that goes without saying.
To think that everybody who voted Trump did it solely because of racist and/or homophobic reasons is narrow-minded. Some people just viewed better economic advantages by going with Trump.
Obama picked on this, and that's why he was so massively popular at election.
-
I was so shocked when I read the news this morning. I was just as convinced as most of you that Clinton would pull through, maybe not necessarily by a wide margin, but still. I just can't believe half your country (or rather, looking at the actual voter turnout, a quarter of your country) could buy into such obvious empty promises and hate-filled speeches. As a German, I can certainly relate to where electing such a horrible fascist as your head of state can lead to (Hope my country won't make a similar mistake next year). It's hard to not loose your faith in humankind in moments like these, but as Obama (who I wish could just use some loophole to stay in office for four more years) stated in his speech, there is no sense in despair.
So stay strong guys! I know things look bleak right now but don't loose hope, you can and will endure Trumps presidency. I really feel for you and sincerely wish you all the best for the next few years:sad:
-
Yes, that goes without saying.
To think that everybody who voted Trump did it solely because of racist and/or homophobic reasons is narrow-minded. Some people just viewed better economic advantages by going with Trump.
Obama picked on this, and that's why he was so massively popular at election.
Well it was that and lot of the Obama is ruining the country spiel we've had to hear since 2009. That never really died down and that got added together with other stuff.
-
I normally don't post in any sections but the anime/manga one, but some posts here really make me want to say something.
First, I'm not from the US myself and dislike both candidates. Trump for obvious reasons, Clinton because she's very distant and I honestly also did not hear much policy talk from her, despite some people claiming the opposite. However, the debates and subsequent events made me feel quite clearly pro-Clinton, and this result thus also shocks me quite a bit.
What some people who now start blaming white people, etc. fail to consider, though, is the "silent majority" argument by the Trump campaign, which seems to have been spot-on. Disagree all you want, but this clearly is a problem, and you do not solve it by hoping it goes away over time. I perceived a strong degree of arrogance in online discussions of this election from Clinton supporters anytime you not just sided with Trump, but even if you just disagreed with Clinton or rather supported Third-party. And now I read the same here: people blaming the result on third-party voters and how that is an unreasonable choice.
As someone who grew up in a political system where third-parties are commonplace and hold quite some power, to me this kind of sentiment is just as scary as Trump's victory. If you call people stupid because they don't use their vote however you think it'd be the best strategic choice instead of voting what they think is right, then, in my opinion, you do not get what a democracy is about and damage the idea of one. The fault is clearly not with people who vote for who they think should be president, it's with the DNC, and the system itself, that failed to put up a candidate that could win against a fucking reality show star who once fought a sparring wrestling match with Stone Cold Steve Austin.
You do not change those people by saying they're stupid or they're racist or they're white or they're deplorable and making them lie about their preference in polls due to social shaming, but by appealing to them, understanding why they still would vote Trump despite all of this bullshit, and then offering them proper support and alternatives actually addressing their problems and understanding just that. These people, be their opinion as it may, still are American people with a vote. Treat them like that, otherwise of course they'll jump boat with the orange guy who claims to understand them while being nothing more but an orange version of Hitler. -
#truth. Lots of lessons learned this election, I imagine.
-
I don't like the milquetoast revisionism going on where people are trying to distance trump voters from white supremacism. It's absolutely linked and this is not the time to try to give Trump voters the benefit of the doubt and assume the best of them. Whether they did it fully and with awareness or not does not change what we visibly saw.
I only point it out because there's a lot of scary on the platter being presented, such as climate change deniers and the very possibility that LGBT people have to fight harder than ever and cast aside incrementalism to survive. It's best to not sweep under the rug what is very much the ugliest truth.
-
I think it's more complex than that.
Here's a potential insight, which could explain for example why Trump won in certain blue states. It's an interesting read, even if you end disagreeing with it. More perspective is always good, especially coming from a neutral one.
Someone posted that one like a month ago (I guess they reposted it) and we blew holes in it. The article sucks.
Its especially dumb because it misses that lots of the white voters were semi-urban and in or around failing industrial economies.
The rust belt isn't named the rust belt because tractors are rusting over. -
As someone who grew up in a political system where third-parties are commonplace and hold quite some power, to me this kind of sentiment is just as scary as Trump's victory.
Third parties are fine. I've voted for them myself plenty of times.
But
1)they need to build up their base at the lower levels before they have any chance at the big chair. Johnson had zero chance of winning, and even making it to 5% to be taken at all seriously was unlikely. The result of this is going to be baaad backlash against third parties next time around, just like it was after Nader cost the election for Gore. Other third party candidates who ran in the past and could have easily run again, declined to do so this time given the stakes.
- This election was not to the one to make a statement" vote in. Last election, sure. Next election, sure. Primaries sure. Midterms, sure. But not this election.
Any other year you vote republican, fine, that's just politics, I can disagree with you, business as usual. But this one wasn't about budgets or jobs or how we shape our military.
This one was about people's lives, human sympathy, straight up human dignity. I personally know people whose lives are going to be completely ruined in the months to come, who legitly fear for their lives and their wellbeing, and the impending loss of their health care, the loss of their choices as women, and those that are not white who are facing a lot more oppression now than they did a year ago who are seriously considering having to move for fear of their lives now. Not as hyperbole the joke of "If he wins I'm moving to Canada" but absolutely seriously considering spending the money and shaking up their lives to move to other countries now.
This one legitimized every rapist, every child molester, every racist, every hate monger, every anti-semite, every anti-LGBT person, every white supremacist and Neo Nazi. By casting your lot in the the man supported by the Ku Klux Klan.
In less than 8 hours since the win, they've already declared some of the hate-legislature they'll be passing and progress that they'll be revoking.
THIS election wasn't about politics.
-
I normally don't post in any sections but the anime/manga one, but some posts here really make me want to say something.
First, I'm not from the US myself and dislike both candidates. Trump for obvious reasons, Clinton because she's very distant and I honestly also did not hear much policy talk from her, despite some people claiming the opposite. However, the debates and subsequent events made me feel quite clearly pro-Clinton, and this result thus also shocks me quite a bit.
What some people who now start blaming white people, etc. fail to consider, though, is the "silent majority" argument by the Trump campaign, which seems to have been spot-on. Disagree all you want, but this clearly is a problem, and you do not solve it by hoping it goes away over time. I perceived a strong degree of arrogance in online discussions of this election from Clinton supporters anytime you not just sided with Trump, but even if you just disagreed with Clinton or rather supported Third-party. And now I read the same here: people blaming the result on third-party voters and how that is an unreasonable choice.
As someone who grew up in a political system where third-parties are commonplace and hold quite some power, to me this kind of sentiment is just as scary as Trump's victory. If you call people stupid because they don't use their vote however you think it'd be the best strategic choice instead of voting what they think is right, then, in my opinion, you do not get what a democracy is about and damage the idea of one. The fault is clearly not with people who vote for who they think should be president, it's with the DNC, and the system itself, that failed to put up a candidate that could win against a fucking reality show star who once fought a sparring wrestling match with Stone Cold Steve Austin.
You do not change those people by saying they're stupid or they're racist or they're white or they're deplorable and making them lie about their preference in polls due to social shaming, but by appealing to them, understanding why they still would vote Trump despite all of this bullshit, and then offering them proper support and alternatives actually addressing their problems and understanding just that. These people, be their opinion as it may, still are American people with a vote. Treat them like that, otherwise of course they'll jump boat with the orange guy who claims to understand them while being nothing more but an orange version of Hitler.Voting third party in an election especially at the national level would make sense if A) the candidates weren't so sub-par and B) if the people voting for them had enough sense to know that voting for them isn't practical as they have no real notierity.
Edit: Damn it:ninja:
Edit 2: Trump didn't wrestle Austin, he doesn't have the grapefruits to take an ass whopping
like Vince. -
Glad Economic Anxiety will be over soon. :)
And PS please respect these voters!!!
-
Some people just viewed better economic advantages by going with Trump.
The very best possible reading there isn't this, its that they went with a semi-nihilistic hail mary shot not much caring what damage it causes.
Because you say this like Trump has ever had a concrete plan for doing an essentially impossible thing, reviving the rust belt economy.
Coming from Brazil you probably have much less of an idea what a Rust Belt is, but its a feature in lots of first world countries that industrialized early. And those areas being economically fucked is universal as well. The UK has them. Belgium has them. France has them.
If the areas are lucky and were built up in areas that have geographic advantages outside that industry? They can move on, after all the Ruhr area in Germany I don't think is known for being a Rust Belt.
But lots of these areas? Not so lucky. There was some industrial economy advantage to the location, that changed, in some cases because the literal world economy shifted past the particular industry in the first place. And the cities and towns that sprung up around them have no other geographic purpose.
Even some in good locations struggle to turn it around, the Northeast US is littered with such cities still. Though usually the white population had healthy suburbs to move out into (not always). Rustcog Ohio doesn't. -
I was so shocked when I read the news this morning. I was just as convinced as most of you that Clinton would pull through, maybe not necessarily by a wide margin, but still. I just can't believe half your country (or rather, looking at the actual voter turnout, a quarter of your country) could buy into such obvious empty promises and hate-filled speeches. As a German, I can certainly relate to where electing such a horrible fascist as your head of state can lead to (Hope my country won't make a similar mistake next year). It's hard to not loose your faith in humankind in moments like these, but as Obama (who I wish could just use some loophole to stay in office for four more years) stated in his speech, there is no sense in despair.
So stay strong guys! I know things look bleak right now but don't loose hope, you can and will endure Trumps presidency. I really feel for you and sincerely wish you all the best for the next few years:sad:
Its not the Germans I'm worried about, its the French.
-
F-trash has a point though. From an outside observation viewpoint (though of course that doesn't hold as much weight as you who weathered the storm), racists and homophobes absolutely exist in trump's voter base, but calling them racists and homophobes isn't going to win their hearts to vote against trump. With all the name calling, it only pushes them further towards trump, rather than recognizing how much bullshit he was spewing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Not all trump supporters hold racist or homophobic views and instead vote for trump for other reasons (economic? Anti-elitest?). I don't know how far the Clinton campaign went to assure trump supporters that she would address their concerns equally, but the result shows that perhaps it wasn't enough.
-
Third parties are fine. I've voted for them myself plenty of times.
But
1)they need to build up their base at the lower levels before they have any chance at the big chair. Johnson had zero chance of winning, and even making it to 5% to be taken at all seriously was unlikely. The result of this is going to be baaad backlash against third parties next time around, just like it was after Nader cost the election for Gore. Other third party candidates who ran in the past and could have easily run again, declined to do so this time given the stakes.
- This election was not to the one to make a statement" vote in. Last election, sure. Next election, sure. Primaries sure. Midterms, sure. But not this election.
Any other year you vote republican, fine, that's just politics, I can disagree with you, business as usual. But this one wasn't about budgets or jobs or how we shape our military.
This one was about people's lives, human sympathy, straight up human dignity. I personally know people whose lives are going to be completely ruined in the months to come, who legitly fear for their lives and their wellbeing, and the impending loss of their health care, the loss of their choices as women, and those that are not white who are facing a lot more oppression now than they did a year ago who are seriously considering having to move for fear of their lives now. Not as hyperbole the joke of "If he wins I'm moving to Canada" but absolutely seriously considering spending the money and shaking up their lives to move to other countries now.
This one legitimized every rapist, every child molester, every racist, every hate monger, every anti-semite, every anti-LGBT person, every white supremacist and Neo Nazi. By casting your lot in the the man supported by the Ku Klux Klan.
THIS election wasn't about politics.
Most of Johnson's supporters were Republican or right-leaning. They would have otherwise voted Trump.
-
What some people who now start blaming white people, etc. fail to consider, though, is the "silent majority" argument by the Trump campaign,
There was no silent majority. It was traditional Republican base combined with a surprise turnover in the Rust Belt of more middleground voters.
I perceived a strong degree of arrogance in online discussions of this election from Clinton supporters anytime you not just sided with Trump,
So let me get this straight, exactly what DID you hear about the election if you find it strange and offputting that people see Trump support as super bad?
rather supported Third-party.
With the razor thing margins going on this is the time you choose to make this argument?
As someone who grew up in a political system where third-parties are commonplace and hold quite some power,
As that someone you do not understand the US political system. This is straight up false equivalence.
If you call people stupid because they don't use their vote however you think it'd be the best strategic choice instead of voting what they think is right, then, in my opinion, you do not get what a democracy is about and damage the idea of one.
What is a democracy about Charlie Brown?
The fault is clearly not with people who vote for who they think should be president, it's with the DNC, and the system itself, that failed to put up a candidate that could win against a fucking reality show star who once fought a sparring wrestling match with Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Or is it the first sentence thing where you were asserting a silent majority?
You do not change those people by saying they're stupid or they're racist or they're white or they're deplorable
You cannot change them because little was new last night, most of what shifted the wrong way was already under the sway of Republican messaging that makes approaching them from the other party near to impossible.
and then offering them proper support and alternatives actually addressing their problems and understanding just that.
The support and alternatives have been demonized in excruciating detail by the GOP for decades in these areas. These are the people infamous for voting against their interests. And have done so once again.
-
Most of Johnson's supporters were Republican or right-leaning. They would have otherwise voted Trump.
And yet the problem with this bit is that some Republicans voted for Hillary so it's not like Trump had a lock on all of them.
-
Glad Economic Anxiety will be over soon. :)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw2jz83WIAAbceB.jpg
And PS please respect these voters!!!
Yes, because one guy proves that every single Republican is a Nazi now. What about the time people who clearly weren't Republicans made swastika graffiti? (After blowing up a building no less)
-
Nothing was as razor thin as the Florida vote in 2000, but every single swing state the difference between the two was less than half of what the third party took.
WOuld some of them have voted Trump? Sure. Would some have voted Hillary? Yes. Would some have not voted at all? Probably. We'll never know, but it was close enough, and enough people thought that their vote didn't matter, that it clearly made a difference.
As for the 47% that didn't vote? What the hell.
-
Yes, because one guy proves that every single Republican is a Nazi now. What about the time people who clearly weren't Republican made swastika graffiti? (After blowing up a building no less)
Didn't democrats crowdfund the damages for that? I can't see Trump voters repair the inevitable destruction of a black church.
ā- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Monkey:
The support and alternatives have been demonized in excruciating detail by the GOP for decades in these areas. These are the people infamous for voting against their interests. And have done so once again.
And the same thing happened during Brexit. Counties most reliant on EU subsidies voted most overwhelmingly Leave. Because they were going to Take Back Control.
These people vote with their underbelly and not their wallet.
-
@Monkey:
Someone posted that one like a month ago (I guess they reposted it) and we blew holes in it. The article sucks.
Its especially dumb because it misses that lots of the white voters were semi-urban and in or around failing industrial economies.
The rust belt isn't named the rust belt because tractors are rusting over.That was pointed out in the 3rd entry.
See, rural jobs used to be based around one big local business ā a factory, a coal mine, etc. When it dies, the town dies. Where I grew up, it was an oil refinery closing that did us in. I was raised in the hollowed-out shell of what the town had once been. The roof of our high school leaked when it rained. Cities can make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs with service jobs -- small towns cannot. That model doesn't work below a certain population density.
If you don't live in one of these small towns, you can't understand the hopelessness. The vast majority of possible careers involve moving to the city, and around every city is now a hundred-foot wall called "Cost of Living." Let's say you're a smart kid making $8 an hour at Walgreen's and aspire to greater things. Fine, get ready to move yourself and your new baby into a 700-square-foot apartment for $1,200 a month, and to then pay double what you're paying now for utilities, groceries, and babysitters.
@Monkey:
The very best possible reading there isn't this, its that they went with a semi-nihilistic hail mary shot not much caring what damage it causes.
Because you say this like Trump has ever had a concrete plan for doing an essentially impossible thing, reviving the rust belt economy.
Coming from Brazil you probably have much less of an idea what a Rust Belt is, but its a feature in lots of first world countries that industrialized early. And those areas being economically fucked is universal as well. The UK has them. Belgium has them. France has them.
If the areas are lucky and were built up in areas that have geographic advantages outside that industry? They can move on, after all the Ruhr area in Germany I don't think is known for being a Rust Belt.Obviously, I don't think Trump has an actual plan for that, especially with the economy tanking with his election and automation becoming too essential for it at this point. And the fact that it's Trump we're talking about.
But alas, I don't expect rural America to be that informed. In fact, they're pretty fucking desperate, which means easier manipulation.
-
Didn't democrats crowdfund the damages for that? I can't see Trump voters repair the inevitable destruction of a black church.
That doesn't disprove my point; extremists exist but are an extreme minority and act well outside of accepted societal norms. The fact that both sides constantly paint each other with the Nazi brush should be proof enough that no one likes Nazis.
-
The left has become lazy and cowardly yet they frequently engage in fights to shove equality down the populace's throat? And it's somehow bad the left championed equality because they should have been more considerate and gentle with all the racists, misogynists, and bigots in the electorate? Am I hearing this right?
I know you said that'd be your last post in the thread but please I do want to hear more from you on this subject.
just because you shove your viewpoint down the throat doesn't mean you are not lazy.shoving viewpoints to people,disregarding the entire side and groups of people is indeed lazy.resorting to personal attacks rather than a good arguments and debate is lazy.it's not bad that you championed equality,it's how you did it.
and people are doing the same,with essentially dismissing entire groups of people.
look,i don't think anyone who voted trump or supported him in some way is not to blame.they most definitely are.their ignorance and bigotry is the darkness that will be the end of everything.
but at the same time,all the participants are to blame.that includes the DNC,the democratic voters,the media,the disgusting method of campaigning(seriously?12 women complain on the same day of being assaulted?some after decades of the supposed fact?you want to tell me it's all a co-incidence?not to mention their silence all this time is supposed to be good?).
people in this thread blame bernie when he in the end decided to support Hillary and encouraged his supporters to do the same,but his supporters then continued to boo him?
this is the test result,and it says FAIL.if you don't want to acknowledge that,then well nothing can be done about that.
i posted this earlier,but imo the most blame is on ISIS and the media.the former's radicalisation encourages the other's to also radicalise,it's like a chain reaction that will end everything.
and the media is just fucking stupid.i doubt they will learn from this.hopefully they are heavily censorshipped under trump and then learn that sometimes TRP's are not everything -
By general public consensus, the Hillary Clinton campaign won all three of the presidential debates. However, they fell short in the vice presidential debate
Meaning
Hillary Clinton blew a 3-1 lead :ninja:
-
That doesn't disprove my point; extremists exist but are an extreme minority and act well outside of accepted societal norms. The fact that both sides constantly paint each other with the Nazi brush should be proof enough that no one likes Nazis.
Sounds like a strawman to be honest.
-
That doesn't disprove my point; extremists exist but are an extreme minority and act well outside of accepted societal norms. The fact that both sides constantly paint each other with the Nazi brush should be proof enough that no one likes Nazis.
Except this time one side had the actual spoken support of literal neo-nazis and KKK.
It's not hyperbole when it's actual fact that you are on the same side as the nazis.
Fun fact, Trump's speech the crowd was chanting about killing blacks and muslims and getting rid of them.
ANd one day later?
http://mashable.com/2016/11/09/muslim-women-scared-hijab/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link#6raIpYJISiq0
Muslim women are afraid to wear the hijab in public now.ANd here's another one.
Today, I went to go stock up on cigarettes, energy drinks and alcohol. I got out of my car and made it halfway to the store before a man in a MAGA hat grabbed me by the crotch and whispered "Are you scared now, you liberal cunt?"
I froze. I ran back to my car once he walked away and drove straight home. I need to remove the Bernie sticker on my car, to be safe. I don't think I'll feel safe in this country ever again.
This is now public for sharing, and yes I did file a police report.
It hasn't even been a fucking DAY yet, and this shit encourage now.
-
Are there any petitions now for anything to help stop the onslaught of bull that's about the hit our most vulnerable? Not for some stupid recount or to overturn the election. That's not happening.
I can't even think of what could be said or done to keep things like same-sex marriage from being repealed (the next VP doesn't sound like he'd bend), but are there any petitions out there now that are trying to protect everyone's rights?
-
Except this time one side had the actual spoken support of literal neo-nazis and KKK.
It's not hyperbole when it's actual fact that you are on the same side as the nazis.
Fun fact, Trump's speech the crowd was chanting about killing blacks and muslims and getting rid of them.
ANd one day later?
http://mashable.com/2016/11/09/muslim-women-scared-hijab/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link#6raIpYJISiq0
Muslim women are afraid to wear the hijab in public now.ANd here's another one.
It hasn't even been a fucking DAY yet, and this shit encourage now.
It's still wrong to vilify half of the people who voted yesterday. You can call them ignorant partisan sheep, but there's really no evidence that mainstream Republicans support Nazis or the Klan; the fact that two conservative groups voted for a candidate propped up by the conservative establishment should be no surprise, since this is at least the third election in a row where their interests have aligned.
As others have said, how is vilifying right-wing partisan voters and moderates and anyone who didn't vote for Hillary supposed to win the Democrats votes in 2 years?
-
F-trash has a point though. From an outside observation viewpoint (though of course that doesn't hold as much weight as you who weathered the storm), racists and homophobes absolutely exist in trump's voter base, but calling them racists and homophobes isn't going to win their hearts to vote against trump. With all the name calling, it only pushes them further towards trump, rather than recognizing how much bullshit he was spewing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Not all trump supporters hold racist or homophobic views and instead vote for trump for other reasons (economic? Anti-elitest?). I don't know how far the Clinton campaign went to assure trump supporters that she would address their concerns equally, but the result shows that perhaps it wasn't enough.
^
This is the most progressive approach, to reach out to everyone despite their beliefs, and most importantly to debate about these issues instead of living in echo chambers and calling names, thinking of having some high moral ground just because you take the sides of minorities or "weak" people.
Because every single human being is a minority and is weak on their own. Some have more misfortunes than others and some happen to suffer more because of that, but the moment we start to discriminate on these grounds looking after only the "weak" ones that suit us, it's the moment we lose sight of what we should achieve. -
It does feel like the DNC was more concerned in bashing Trump than supporting Hillary.
-
All Lives Matter
-
An abstinence of 47%?!
-
I agree with f-trash as well. And I say this fully aware of the stances Pence has already stated and all the unreasonable death it will cause.
But the bottom line is that sitting here throwing a fit about a fourth of the country being racist, sexist, bigoted or whatever else isn't gonna do shit. It's not gonna help anyone for us to immediately discount so many people as not worth talking to or including, because you know what? It was their fear and ignorance that caused this.
Breaking more bridges just segments the population more and gives THEM a reason to feel they were right about the threats to their liberty and safety, as misguided as that may be in the context of how threatened we feel right now.
Being afraid doesn't excuse us from throwing the same shit, anger, and labels back. That shit does nothing for no one. It's time to move on people, and think about more constructive solutions than hating on Trump voters or third party voters, etc.
-
[hide]
[/hide]#MAGA
-
Hope this makes the Dems take the midterms more seriously from now on.
-
It's still wrong to vilify half of the people who voted yesterday. You can call them ignorant partisan sheep, but there's really no evidence that mainstream Republicans support Nazis or the Klan; the fact that two conservative groups voted for a candidate propped up by the conservative establishment should be no surprise, since this is at least the third election in a row where their interests have aligned.
As others have said, how is vilifying right-wing partisan voters and moderates and anyone who didn't vote for Hillary supposed to win the Democrats votes in 2 years?
The narrative, from the very beginning, was that Trump was spewing racist, sexist bullshit and that he was widely supported by extremist groups and white nationals. There were multiple stories about persecution and hate against women and minorities. Not everyone who voted Trump is an extremist, but if you voted for him that means you think the racist hatred he embodied wasn't dangerous enough to disqualify him. You tacitly condone that behavior. And that makes you absolutely deserving of vilification.
Note that I'm aware that you personally, Robo, didn't vote for Trump and I'm using "you" in a rhetorical sense.
There's also plenty of time to focus on winning voters once Trump's awful policies take effect. Telling people they're shitheads and giving them two years to stew on their boneheaded decision isn't going to make our indecisive, ass-backwards swing voters any less likely to flip in the midterms.
-
It's still wrong to vilify half of the people who voted yesterday. You can call them ignorant partisan sheep, but there's really no evidence that mainstream Republicans support Nazis or the Klan;
They may not support them discreetly, openly, or at all but a few them have been known to
make disparaging remarks about certain groups in particular hispanics and blacks. So while you
can't label them all racist, sexist, or whatever. That doesn't mean that any of them shouldn't
be called out for it especially when they openly engage in such behavior. Not doing that just
encourages the behavior which then normalizes it.As others have said, how is vilifying right-wing partisan voters and moderates and anyone who didn't vote for Hillary supposed to win the Democrats votes in 2 years?
Don't know considering a fraction of democrats won't be able to vote in the mid-terms between gerrymandering and voter
suppression. Likely made even worse by the same mentality that saw Democrats get their asses handed to them in the last mid-terms. -
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-pence-transgender-students-aa32ee93cdb7#.lfp2wb8cm
Pence declares that yes, trump will be an anti-LGBT president.
That didn't take long.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/former-kkk-leader-david-duke-075823237.html
KKK leader David Duke declares this is a great day. "Our people played a huge role in electing Trump!"
Congrats folks. You're on the side of the KKK.
That'sā¦.. bad. And with Republicans in control of everything, shit, things look dark for the LGBT crowd. My condolences for my flip of the coin (yes I voted Trump :sad:).
-
The narrative, from the very beginning, was that Trump was spewing racist, sexist bullshit and that he was widely supported by extremist groups and white nationals. There were multiple stories about persecution and hate against women and minorities. Not everyone who voted Trump is an extremist, but if you voted for him that means you think the racist hatred he embodied wasn't dangerous enough to disqualify him. You tacitly condone that behavior. And that makes you absolutely deserving of vilification.
Note that I'm aware that you personally, Robo, didn't vote for Trump and I'm using "you" in a rhetorical sense.
There's also plenty of time to focus on winning voters once Trump's awful policies take effect. Telling people they're shitheads and giving them two years to stew on their boneheaded decision isn't going to make our indecisive, ass-backwards swing voters any less likely to flip in the midterms.
That's a level of thought that you can achieve, but attributing it to others is a fallacy.
Other people have a simpler equation. "I think Trump vote good for economy? Vote Trump"ā¦ This is literally how it looks to a lot of people.
To a lot of people who live in white communities experiencing only white men issues, it is absurd for us to really expect them to suddenly have consideration for experiences outside their own without having been educated or raised to do so. This is a country that is incredibly ignorant of the outside world, and here it shows.To them this isn't an issue of them being racist, but an issue of them facing particular needs and their perception being that Trump meets those. And yes, it's definitely an issue, but one of ignorance.
Asking for judgment and condemnation for ALL Trump voters includes a lot of people who are outright ignorant and act out of perceived good intent. If we're going to play that game, then a lot of us here will have blood too in the decisions we have made, be they environmentally-related, social-related, politically-related... I'm sure at some point most people here have done something with good intentions that was not so for others.When you start judging and opening the door for that being acceptable, it just brings up a slippery slope.
-
The narrative, from the very beginning, was that Trump was spewing racist, sexist bullshit and that he was widely supported by extremist groups and white nationals. There were multiple stories about persecution and hate against women and minorities. Not everyone who voted Trump is an extremist, but if you voted for him that means you think the racist hatred he embodied wasn't dangerous enough to disqualify him. You tacitly condone that behavior. And that makes you absolutely deserving of vilification.
The bolded is a thing that many people are arguing helped Trump win.
Vilification from the DNC could have intimidated white moderates into siding with Trump (which makes sorta sense as the Reps don't often target straight white men). I think MLK said something about this before.
-
[ā¦]You do not change those people by saying they're stupid or they're racist or they're white or they're deplorable and making them lie about their preference in polls due to social shaming, but by appealing to them, understanding why they still would vote Trump despite all of this bullshit, and then offering them proper support and alternatives actually addressing their problems and understanding just that. These people, be their opinion as it may, still are American people with a vote. Treat them like that [ā¦].
Couldn't agree more with this. I've seen so many people hate on people supporting trump and then don't even try to listen to why. How can you sway a person if you won't even let them speak?
Back when the refugee crisis hit my country, if you voiced even the smallest concern people would call you racist. It came to the point where I didn't dare speaking my opinion, and eventually I was seriously considering voting for the Swedish Democrats (a somewhat racist party) because they were the only ones who even touched the subject. Thankfully people have opened up since then, but it made me realize how easy it is to vote for idiots if you're pressed enough.