Good chapter. Good to see his sister isnt completely heartless. Not much else to say, standard stuff really. Luffy eating the crackers is so typical of him though. Lol
Chapter 841: To the East Blue
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considering that the grand line is 10 km high and that the snails take 3 weeks to climb it..they went something like 20 meters per hour..snails indeed
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After reading both this chapter and the previous chapter, it seems that I was right about Reiju, plus she and the mother are the only people in the family that care about Sanji.
Anyway, as funny as the ending was, I still wish Oda didn't skip most of the fight to that point since I was really enjoying the battle. Still a nice and emotional chapter though. :)
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I think it's because their father was in the room, and he couldn't notice Reiju likes Sanji, so she had to put the handcuffs on him.
maybe,but considering all of reiju's dialogue thus far and her actions,i doubt it was simply that.she tried to get the SH's to back off,tried to make sanji change his mind and then is doing so again now.i think that she thinks now that since sanji has accomplished himself and can have a somewhat comfortable life he should just accept it
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Cool enough.
Oddly enough I made a comment weeks ago about Luffy should just get some apple juice (or any liquid) and spill it on the biscuits soldiers. I wasn't close but I find it funny that people wouldn't consider at this point of the series something simple as Luffy eating biscuits wouldn't happen. -
considering that the grand line is 10 km high and that the snails take 3 weeks to climb it..they went something like 20 meters per hour..snails indeed
Well it's not just a wall like a fence. On top their is certainly miles of land to get across before going back down again. I'd say they are probably going a little bit faster.
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So those snail ships can climb the red line? Germa 66 really has awesome technology. So Judge definitely has the curly eyebrows and an "human" part for letting Sanji leave the kingdom, I thought that guy was completely heartless. The final part was funny, I hope we can see the ending of the fight next week or more information or news about the wedding.
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It's as if Cracker and Luffy were made for each other.
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Luffy's got a pretty good jaw to be eating all these hard biscuits
But he may be rivalled by the one and only King Baum, who's kept his mouth open for 11 straight hours
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so either Luffy has been switching back and forth from gear fourth or eating all of crackers minions makes him replenish all of his haki. I want it to be the first just because it could show some growth on luffys part but i would be surprised if its not the latter.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kaido:
Luffy's got a pretty good jaw to be eating all these hard biscuits
he did make jinbei say ow when he bit him. and considering that Jinbei got magma punched and didn't say a word that is pretty impressive…..
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I'm sure now, there is no way this arc ends without the eating contest between big mom and luffy.
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Judge is a pretty interesting character seeing as his problem with Sanji is him being a failure and he is frustrated with that fact. He originally told Sanji to just train harder and keep up regardless. And after realising that wasn't going to work was going to keep him locked up and fed because he couldn't bring himself to kill his own son or even leave him somewhere to die.
Hell, despite how much of an obstinate Jack Ass he is Judge couldn't even abandon Sanji until Sanji said he wanted to leave on his own. I'd be interested to see more about Judge and Sanji at this Brunch with Big Mom.
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@uniaka:
I'm sure now, there is no way this arc ends without the eating contest between big mom and luffy.
with the food being made by sanji :happy:
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So those snail ships can climb the red line? Germa 66 really has awesome technology.
I think that is something Snails can do naturally.
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I think that is something Snails can do naturally.
Judge is a genius because he uses things exactly how they should be. Maybe Luffy is a genius too:ninja
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Nami for sure forced tree guy to fight against Cracker, he is missing his treetop.
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I think that is something Snails can do naturally.
Yeah I know, but I was surprised about their size, the buildings at their back and how they are used as ships. I don't think giant snails exist so they must have been modified (maybe Judge created some growth candies before Caesar?)
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Meh.
Still unimpressed by how Reiju's touching words were plagiarized from Saul.
That and her behavior just seems inconsistent to me now. After freeing Sanji and telling him to never come back to the place that's so awful to him, in the present she does nothing but talk about how awesome it is and why he should stay. -
Meh.
Still unimpressed by how Reiju's touching words were plagiarized from Saul.
That and her behavior just seems inconsistent to me now. After freeing Sanji and telling him to never come back to the place that's so awful to him, in the present she does nothing but talk about how awesome it is and why he should stay.Some reasons for this, but for me the most logical one is:
She's most likely pushing Sanji to reinforce himself and remember his past, so to push him away essentially. By constantly raving about the Royals lifestyle, she reminds of what he hates and why he left in the first place. The brothers essentially do it this by beating him up while black mailing him, which speeds it up by 99999x.
Kind of reinforced at the last few pages of the chapter when she clearly shows that she didn't expect him to come back even with the threat. Thus making her provoke him and get him to run away again.
After all, she seemed quietly happy at the prospect of Luffy announcing that Sanji is his friend, and during this past chapter it seems we know why. All the more reason for her to push him away by making him 'hate' her too, or at the very least bring back memories of hatred for this place with her constant talk of royalty.
She might also be trying to find out why is he is so attached to the chef as well by constantly 'provoking' with Royalty talks.
Words won't always be so black and white. Of course I'm not saying this is the reason why, just my speculation on it.
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@uniaka:
I'm sure now, there is no way this arc ends without the eating contest between big mom and luffy.
It's such a shame that Blackbeard can't also participate to have a rematch regarding their Jaya dispute.
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Great chapter, but Reiju being the one good sibling seems, I don't know It seems too clean for Oda.
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I'm late noticing this, but Sanji hasn't been wearing his handcuffs this entire day. I guess they took them off due to the Zeff threat. But they didn't mention it and it's sort of too convenient.
Anyway, just making a list of possible Luffy allies this arc (emphasis on possible, not all are certain):
Luffy
Nami
Chopper
Brooke
Carrot
Pedro
Pound
Jinbe (maybe his allies too)
Pekoms
Caesar
Reiju
The Homies -
Great chapter, but Reiju being the one good sibling seems, I don't know It seems too clean for Oda.
I have an idea about that.
I have a feeling that the 4 brothers were scientifically modified in such a way to be more heartless because of how Reiju was growing up. Do we know how much older she is than them? If she as toddler was showing empathy and such I could see Judge changing the formula up a bit to make sure the boys would end up being complete cold killing machines.
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I've already brought up some points in the Spoiler thread why I am convinced Sanji won't get that "gene-modification"-power-up.
But here is another one: Does anyone know any long-term-side-effects of that superhumanry?
It's just like real life gene-modification: you don't know what that stuff does in the Long term.
Let's get away from real life references: every perk has a drawback. For example DFs make you a Stone in the water. The energy steroids take you r life time away.
Ok, rokushiki has no drawbacks, but you have to learn it by a Long training
Who says that Ichiji & co will live a normal-length life? Maybe they die at 25 or 30.
You always pay a Price for power.
I guess Sanji will be happy in the end, that this modification of genes didn't work on him.And why should Sanji's DNA be delayed if this code is imprinted in his DNA? He is identical to his 3 Brothers. The only difference is the direction of his eyebrows. Another hint, that Sanji is different from his Brothers, meaning he is a normal human.
I thought the drawback was the lack of empathy expressed in the remaining 3 boys.
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Anyone excited to see a flashback of some of the Red Leg training that Sanji received from Zeff? Like I wonder how Sanji approached Zeff about being stronger, not being a liability on the ocean and so on? Sanji and Zeff immediately shared the dream of All Blue and already had it established that they both enjoyed cooking but how did the topic of fighting come about? Did Sanji divulge any of his past to Zeff or did it just come up a little more organically when the Baratie received its first attack from pirates?
I thought the drawback was the lack of empathy expressed in the remaining 3 boys.
Oh thats a good point as well. All genes activate and Sanji is as heartless as his brothers.
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I thought the drawback was the lack of empathy expressed in the remaining 3 boys.
Reiju was obviously speaking figuratively. She wasn't literally saying that genetic enhancements made them sociopaths . That's just how their personalities and upbringing are. Reiju having the same power and not having that same lack of remorse shows this.
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So in terms of bad parents, does big mom still win? judge said he won't kill his son, but bm killed her son.
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@uniaka:
So in terms of bad parents, do big mom still win? judge said he won't kill his son, but bm killed her son.
Big Mom has no control over her illness and probably has her memory blocked out.
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@Count:
Reiju was obviously speaking figuratively. She wasn't literally saying that genetic enhancements made them sociopaths . That's just how their personalities and upbringing are. Reiju having the same power and not having that same lack of remorse shows this.
I don't think so actually. From the spoilers and the way its worded with Mangastream, Jeiju turned out the way she did despite the modifications.
Edit
On another note, I don't know if its an Austropeleticus style parallel lol, but I like how Sanji held that knife up to Judge in the same way he held a knife up to Zeff.
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I don't think so actually. From the spoilers and the way its worded with Mangastream, Jeiju turned out the way she did despite the modifications.
Similar statements have been said in One Piece though. Like when Corazon claimed that Doflamingo was "born evil". It's meant to emphasize how much they're monsters emotionally/philosophically and not literally saying things like they're reincarnations of demons or experiments with warped personalities. Plus, it kind of spoils all of the trauma Sanji got if they can't even help that they're so corrupt. It's much more meaningful if they're doing this out of their own will while starting off with a blank moral slate like everybody else. Reiju was talking about how she doesn't let the modifications she got spurn her to have an irrational superiority complex. It's the same as how Rosinante experienced the exact same trauma as Doflamingo, but had the willpower and conscience to not let it make him homicidal with a god complex. Besides, the kids were purposefully excluded from knowing about the Germa soldiers being clones, so why would Reiju know anything that specific about the Bloodline Element's effects?
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I'm late noticing this, but Sanji hasn't been wearing his handcuffs this entire day. I guess they took them off due to the Zeff threat. But they didn't mention it and it's sort of too convenient.
Maybe one of those things to be fixed at the volume version.
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I find the idea that Judge would be a fine father if he was just like his other kids kinda heartbreaking. Also child Sanji reminds me of small child in childrens books.
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@uniaka:
So in terms of bad parents, does big mom still win? judge said he won't kill his son, but bm killed her son.
Being this naive and believing that somebody actually died in One Piece in current time.
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Awww, Sanji baby. And Reiju is so great, she reminds me of Nami when she was yelling.
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I love the idea of Sanji being that devoted to cooking because it is a reminder of his mom with his mother. The rest of the chapter was ok.
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At least this definitely confirms they shared a real biological mother, and not just some test tube DNA.
Though it seems her being bedridden in this case makes much more sense, given that she clearly loved Sanji, yet was completely unable to prevent the horrible things happening to him. In addition, she clearly had a very minimal role in raising any of her children. Sanji was likely an exception, given that she was the only person he was allowed to leave his imprisonment to see, indicated that they had visited regularly before.
Also, Sanji had a big enough heart not to trouble his mother over his misery, possibly because he knew she was having an even more rough time than he was. Sanji may as well have been the only son that visited her at a regular basis.
@The:
Is it possible Judge became an asshat when his wife died? That's a very typical scientist turning mad trope in media.
Actually, I'm thinking it was his wife becoming bedridden that drove him over the edge, where he became obsessed with the genetic superiority of his children and fixing the "flaws" in his wife's DNA that allowed her to get ill in the first place. Though if he hates her in a similar way he hated Sanji, he was much less open about it. It seems safe to assume she was stricken soon after Yonji was born.
Though her death may have drove him even further over the brink, and potentially a factor in Germa's failure in its invasion of the East Blue.
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Anyone excited to see a flashback of some of the Red Leg training that Sanji received from Zeff? Like I wonder how Sanji approached Zeff about being stronger, not being a liability on the ocean and so on? Sanji and Zeff immediately shared the dream of All Blue and already had it established that they both enjoyed cooking but how did the topic of fighting come about? Did Sanji divulge any of his past to Zeff or did it just come up a little more organically when the Baratie received its first attack from pirates?
I suppose Zeff told the little runt if he wanted to survive the sea or find Alll blue he would need to be able to defend himself.
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That and her behavior just seems inconsistent to me now. After freeing Sanji and telling him to never come back to the place that's so awful to him, in the present she does nothing but talk about how awesome it is and why he should stay.
this:
@sggupta:a good chapter.we get a proper backstory and it isn't in pieces like in zou.
i think Reiju is mostly portrayed as "neutral",instead of "good" as some people seem to think.she agrees with her family's policies and actions,and seems to like her current position.she doesn't want to go against either judge or the other siblings.the fact that she freed sanji and told him to never come back was because she isn't a complete shit,and actually cares about sanji as family.also she seems to realise that sanji will never be accepted here,and that's why wants him to find happiness.and she only helped him somewhat secretly,and not openly.
and also before people calling it retconning and why she now put on the handcuffs,it is because she thinks that now he will have a comfortable life under Big Mom,he'll be in a happy marriage and also may get recognition with Big Mom.she may change her mind later.
so,i would say she has not been portrayed as very kind or good.yes,she helped him out but she is somewhat self-centred as wellbasically,i think she told him never to come back because all that would greet him was pain and suffering.now,she thinks it won't be the same.now she believes he can live without problems.
@Al!naJames:
Being this naive and believing that somebody actually died in One Piece in current time.
^this.if she can take "lifespan",she can easily give it back too.
@Mr.:
At least this definitely confirms they shared a real biological mother, and not just some test tube DNA.
Though it seems her being bedridden in this case makes much more sense, given that she clearly loved Sanji, yet was completely unable to prevent the horrible things happening to him. In addition, she clearly had a very minimal role in raising any of her children. Sanji was likely an exception, given that she was the only person he was allowed to leave his imprisonment to see, indicated that they had visited regularly before.
i think you are confusing the timeline. sanji's mother had died sometime earlier,and sanji is remembering about visiting her.this is shown by the greying of the borders,instead of the black borders
i also think the "incapable of feeling emotions part" could be meant literally,but it will be clearer when viz comes out.though it could be just figurative as well,as Count says.
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@Mr.:
Actually, I'm thinking it was his wife becoming bedridden that drove him over the edge, where he became obsessed with the genetic superiority of his children and fixing the "flaws" in his wife's DNA that allowed her to get ill in the first place.
I'd…be on board with this.
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i think you are confusing the timeline. sanji's mother had sometime earlier,and sanji is remembering about visiting her.this is shown by the greying of the borders,instead of the black borders
Correct. Also, Judge mentioned in one of the previous chapters that he'd hoped Sanji's fixation on feeding things would have ended after his mother passed away.
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this:
basically,i think she told him never to come back because all that would greet him was pain and suffering.now,she thinks it won't be the same.now she believes he can live without problems.
No, she clearly didn't expect him to come back when she said this chapter: "It's just some restaurant owner you used to work with! Why do you care so much? You must've known what would happen if you came back here!! I know you have very few pleasant memories about this place"
Combined with her expression she clearly did not think he would come back here because of some 'restaurant owner'
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@Mr.:
Actually, I'm thinking it was his wife becoming bedridden that drove him over the edge, where he became obsessed with the genetic superiority of his children and fixing the "flaws" in his wife's DNA that allowed her to get ill in the first place. Though if he hates her in a similar way he hated Sanji, he was much less open about it. It seems safe to assume she was stricken soon after Yonji was born.
Though her death may have drove him even further over the brink, and potentially a factor in Germa's failure in its invasion of the East Blue.
I disagree. Judge has shown no affection and minimal mention of the mother, and the location of the infirmary is specifically far away from the main castle. There's no sign of love there.
Plus, the four brothers were most likely genetically modified from birth, meaning that for your theory to be true she would have been bedridden with backstory disease for seven or so years. That seems highly unlikely, given Sanji's fixation on her.
I think a more likely idea is that Judge is responsible for crippling her and did so in front of Sanji. It's pretty unclear where his aversion to hurting women would come from otherwise.
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No, she clearly didn't expect him to come back when she said this chapter: "It's just some restaurant owner you used to work with! Why do you care so much? You must've known what would happen if you came back here!! I know you have very few pleasant memories about this place"
Combined with her expression she clearly did not think he would come back here because of some 'restaurant owner'
that's also a factor,but like i said sanji is now in a better place.he's gonna be married to a good girl,gonna be in the crew of a yonko,and has the ability to stand and fight for himself(if he stopped caring about Zeff).
i take her dialogue to mean more as "if you hate us so much and basically want to rebel against everything we do,you shouldn't have returned.now just nicely get married to that sweet girl"
edit: her parting words are:"one day,you are definitely gonna meet people who'll treat you the way you deserve to be treated"
she cares about how he is treated,and not what is wrong with germa.she could now think that Big Mom and Pudding can be those people -
that's also a factor,but like i said sanji is now in a better place.he's gonna be married to a good girl,gonna be in the crew of a yonko,and has the ability to stand and fight for himself(if he stopped caring about Zeff).
i take her dialogue to mean more as "if you hate us so much and basically want to rebel against everything we do,you shouldn't have returned.now just nicely get married to that sweet girl"
edit: her parting words are:"one day,you are definitely gonna meet people who'll treat you the way you deserve to be treated"
she cares about how he is treated,and not what is wrong with germa.she could now think that Big Mom and Pudding can be those peopleWell I did post a reason for that back in page 6.
While yes your evidence is fine, with the latest chapter it makes it more like the dialogue is meant to 'remind' Sanji of his memories, remind of what he hates, what he doesn't like about this place, and what this place doesn't offer him. Furthermore, based on how intrigued she seems to be with his new character, she might be trying to pry more of his Sanji to find out more about this ideologies and who he is now but stating 'ludicrous' statements about royalty towards him.
Read my post in page 6 for the caring about how is treated part.
For Oda, the way she stated those things about Royalty is too black and white for his style, and he tends to 'reveal' them later. As in part of it is this late chapter.
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Incoming Gear 5th - Digestion Man
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I disagree. Judge has shown no affection and minimal mention of the mother, and the location of the infirmary is specifically far away from the main castle. There's no sign of love there.
Plus, the four brothers were most likely genetically modified from birth, meaning that for your theory to be true she would have been bedridden with backstory disease for seven or so years. That seems highly unlikely, given Sanji's fixation on her.
I think a more likely idea is that Judge is responsible for crippling her and did so in front of Sanji. It's pretty unclear where his aversion to hurting women would come from otherwise.
Or it's Judge's attempt at trying to bury his insecurities. Any emotional attachments that may view as binding his agenda to be weaker. Wanting his children to become genetically gifted and stronger because he detests the flaws of humanity, both physically and emotionally, is always possible. He even displays that a bit with Sanji by treating him like complete garbage, yet somehow in a mysteriously misplaced fashion, not being comfortable with murdering the kid himself. It could have just been a whim, but the fact that Judge is capable of giving love and support to his other children (even though it's just from the perspective of being proud of his successful science experiments rather than them as individuals) gives him a bit of depth.
Don't get me wrong, Judge clearly doesn't love Sanji and I doubt that he does for the mother as well, at least at this point in time. But I don't know, something's fishy about Judge's whole mentality on superiority and his past overall. Like he's desperately trying to compensate for or disprove something, like how the first time Sanji got diagnosed as being completely human, he refused to believe it at first and tried to make him work even harder with the absurd hope that he can catch up to his siblings. Especially since even though they're obviously distant, the mother is still receiving care and medicine instead of being thrown to the curb like Big Mom does with her husbands. It really feels like he he has some sort of complex that needs to make up for something that he can't accept from his past, yet can't bare to forget about either. And he's dealing with it by trying to vicariously live through the prowess of his superior children, while Sanji's weakness might remind him of the reality of his flaws still existing. Hence why he tells them to never acknowledge that they're related.
Or maybe I'm just looking way too deep into this scumbag lol.
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Well I did post a reason for that back in page 6.
While yes your evidence is fine, with the latest chapter it makes it more like the dialogue is meant to 'remind' Sanji of his memories, remind of what he hates, what he doesn't like about this place, and what this place doesn't offer him. Furthermore, based on how intrigued she seems to be with his new character, she might be trying to pry more of his Sanji to find out more about this ideologies and who he is now but stating 'ludicrous' statements about royalty towards him.
Read my post in page 6 for the caring about how is treated part.
For Oda, the way she stated those things about Royalty is too black and white to mean those things, and he tends to 'reveal' them later. As in part of it is this late chapter.
if she is trying to make him(and us,by extension as we are seeing things from sanji's pov) hate her imo she is doing a pretty poor job of it.in every panel she is either being mysterious or not giving a good sense of where she stands.
and you seem to think that bringing up royalty=bad memories,which i don't agree with.if anything,the theme Ichiji brings up of being a dud,a failure is much more powerful of bringing up bad memories because that's essentially why he was treated like crap.yeah,he did acts not befitting royalty but if it was just that,he would never be treated that way.
let's just see how her character is handled.though one thing i want to say,i feel her character is not gonna be a simple good or bad one,it would be more complex one,IMO.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Count:
Or it's Judge's attempt at trying to bury his insecurities. Any emotional attachments that may view as binding his agenda to be weaker. Wanting his children to become genetically gifted and stronger because he detests the flaws of humanity, both physically and emotionally, is always possible. He even displays that a bit with Sanji by treating him like complete garbage, yet somehow in a mysteriously misplaced fashion, not being comfortable with murdering the kid himself. It could have just been a whim, but the fact that Judge is capable of giving love and support to his other children (even though it's just from the perspective of being proud of his successful science experiments rather than them as individuals) gives him a bit of depth.
Don't get me wrong, Judge clearly doesn't love Sanji and I doubt that he does for the mother as well, at least at this point in time. But I don't know, something's fishy about Judge's whole mentality on superiority and his past overall. Like he's desperately trying to compensate for or disprove something, like how the first time Sanji got diagnosed as being completely human, he refused to believe it at first and tried to make him work even harder with the absurd hope that he can catch up to his siblings. Especially since even though they're obviously distant, the mother is still receiving care and medicine instead of being thrown to the curb like Big Mom does with her husbands. It really feels like he he has some sort of complex that needs to make up for something that he can't accept from his past, yet can't bare to forget about either. And he's dealing with it by trying to vicariously live through the prowess of his superior children, while Sanji's weakness might remind him of the reality of his flaws still existing. Hence why he tells them to never acknowledge that they're related.
Or maybe I'm just looking way too deep into this scumbag lol.
agree.i definitely got the sense of him projecting his insecurities on sanji with"you have to work hundred times harder",or also "stop chasing the dead".the main reason why this could work:i don't think we have seen judge when his wife was alive.also,why would sanji's mother,a clearly good person,marry judge if he was always an asshole?
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I find the idea that Judge would be a fine father if he was just like his other kids kinda heartbreaking. Also child Sanji reminds me of small child in childrens books.
That makes him even worse, because it shows that his love is superficial and conditional.
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if she is trying to make him(and us,by extension as we are seeing things from sanji's pov) hate her imo she is doing a pretty poor job of it.in every panel she is either being mysterious or not giving a good sense of where she stands.
and you seem to think that bringing up royalty=bad memories,which i don't agree with.if anything,the theme Ichiji brings up of being a dud,a failure is much more powerful of bringing up bad memories because that's essentially why he was treated like crap.yeah,he did acts not befitting royalty but if it was just that,he would never be treated that way.
let's just see how her character is handled.though one thing i want to say,i feel her character is not gonna be a simple good or bad one,it would be more complex one,IMO.?
Her mysteriousness is the point of it…Not making it clear what she is doing but at the same time indirectly checking Sanjis values and ideologies.
When she brought it up, he reacted negatively:
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/832/18Reminding him of his royalty status is the same thing as reminding him who he 'belongs' to originally. Which is a tie he hates. Regardless of how 'effective' this is, it's a tactic.
And that's why she showed up just now to comment on how she knows he has unpleasant memories here, yet questions why he comes back.
She seems to be heavily intrigued with how he's grown up, also why she comes commenting on certain characteristics. It might also explain why she hasn't mentioned anything about the brothers to him until seemingly this point in time, maybe to find out more about him.
Not saying it's fact, I could very well be wrong. But the way you portrayed is too black and white for One Piece Oda style.