I think it's more like he views his son more like lost property, rather than genuine affection.
Chapter 832 "Germa Kingdom"
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So the question is this: is Papa Vin the main villain of this arc, the one Luffy beats the crap out of?
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Great chapter
at Nami in the Color pic
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What happens when one of these snails dies? But this moving docking kingdom is so awesome.
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Wow, now I'm REALLY questioning how old Big Mom really is.
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I doubt it's all 100% a copy, it has to be a reflective power, so there are major flaws to it.
Reflection makes the most sense, doesn't it? I wouldn't say it outclasses Bon Kurei's power because the reflections are imperfect duplicates of the original while the Clone-Clone fruit is perfect in taking the form of the user. However, it probably has additional uses that have yet to be seen. Also, such a power fits in well with the whole "Through the Looking Glass" theme.
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@Mr.:
Reflection makes the most sense, doesn't it? I wouldn't say it outclasses Bon Kurei's power because the reflections are imperfect duplicates of the original while the Clone-Clone fruit is perfect in taking the form of the user. However, it probably has additional uses that have yet to be seen. Also, such a power fits in well with the whole "Through the Looking Glass" theme.
Im just curious why the fake luffy almost snitched on bruleè. Does that mean the clones adopt a bit of the person's personality and luffy was so honest he would just say that? Really confused how she is controlling the sanji clone and luffy clone, could she use gears if luffy did, or just only use his base attacks?
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@Long:
Im just curious why the fake luffy almost snitched on bruleè. Does that mean the clones adopt a bit of the person's personality and luffy was so honest he would just say that? Really confused how she is controlling the sanji clone and luffy clone, could she use gears if luffy did, or just only use his base attacks?
Given what we know, it appears that Brulee becomes the reflection. By doing so, she copies Luffy's speech and actions perfectly. However, it seems that there is an advantage she can gain by dictating what she and Luffy do first. Brulee made sure to follow the others first, which forced Luffy to go in the opposite direction. Luffy attempted to call out the bluff to the crew, causing Brulee to do it as well, but Brulee managed to cover their mouths in time. This mirror ability is mighty interesting and I can't wait to see it in further uses.
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@Kaido:
Given what we know, it appears that Brulee becomes the reflection. By doing so, she copies Luffy's speech and actions perfectly. However, it seems that there is an advantage she can gain by dictating what she and Luffy do first. Brulee made sure to follow the others first, which forced Luffy to go in the opposite direction. Luffy attempted to call out the bluff to the crew, causing Brulee to do it as well, but Brulee managed to cover their mouths in time. This mirror ability is mighty interesting and I can't wait to see it in further uses.
Damn good idea
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I hope the fight gets interrupted because a loss for either one would be bad. Sanji's dad losing would just make Germa not very imposing. Sanji losing AGAIN is like… he's already jobbed way too much since the time skip so..
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@Kaido:
Given what we know, it appears that Brulee becomes the reflection. By doing so, she copies Luffy's speech and actions perfectly. However, it seems that there is an advantage she can gain by dictating what she and Luffy do first. Brulee made sure to follow the others first, which forced Luffy to go in the opposite direction. Luffy attempted to call out the bluff to the crew, causing Brulee to do it as well, but Brulee managed to cover their mouths in time. This mirror ability is mighty interesting and I can't wait to see it in further uses.
Luffy was being completely
stupidoblivious about this whole mirror thing, it wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly realize that if he screamed whenever he was, his mirrored image would do the same and warn the others. I doubt he even realizes his fake went with Nami's group.My guess is that Luffy ran deep into the woods because he thought Nami was asking him to take care of the traps in the woods, not to run away from them.
And about the warning part, my guess is that Brûlée's imitation is so perfect that she totally gets "in character" when she is copying someone, so she started acting like Luffy would, and that would mean warn his friends that she was not the real Luffy. But she realized what she was about to do in time shut up. Again, a guess… -
I don't know why, but the Germa 66 organization doesn't feel particularly interesting to me. Maybe it's because it feels like it was shoved into the story out of the sudden, with not a single previous hint of their existence. I mean, if they're such a force to be reckoned with, why haven't we heard of them before? at the very least, that "famous" propaganda comic strip Sora should have been found by some character before, followed by a brief weird reaction from Sanji, when the evil army is mentioned.Oda is usually really good with introducing something way ahead of time, and foreshadowing things to come. But this felt like he had the idea very recently. There is nothing wrong with that, but since it involves Sanji, a main characer introduced almost 800 chapters ago, it feels weird to me.
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@.access:
Luffy was being completely
stupidoblivious about this whole mirror thing, it wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly realize that if he screamed whenever he was, his mirrored image would do the same and warn the others. I doubt he even realizes his fake went with Nami's group.My guess is that Luffy ran deep into the woods because he thought Nami was asking him to take care of the traps in the woods, not to run away from them.And about the warning part, my guess is that Brûlée's imitation is so perfect that she totally gets "in character" when she is copying someone, so she started acting like Luffy would, and that would mean warn his friends that she was not the real Luffy. But she realized what she was about to do in time shut up. Again, a guess…Luffy didnt need to know what happened, the idea kaido king of beasts is suggesting is that if she as a clone runs with nami, chopper and carrot then luffy has to mirror her actions and since he wa running away he tried calling to them but they couldnt hear his, the clone speaking is a side effect of her powers IMO
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I don't know why, but the Germa 66 organization doesn't feel particularly interesting to me. Maybe it's because it feels like it was shoved into the story out of the sudden, with not a single previous hint of their existence. I mean, if they're such a force to be reckoned with, why haven't we heard of them before? at the very least, that "famous" propaganda comic strip Sora should have been found by some character before, followed by a brief weird reaction from Sanji, when the evil army is mentioned.Oda is usually really good with introducing something way ahead of time, and foreshadowing things to come. But this felt like he had the idea very recently. There is nothing wrong with that, but since it involves Sanji, a main characer introduced almost 800 chapters ago, it feels weird to me.
That doesn't particularly bother me, I mean we hadn't even heard of the four emperors until after Enies Lobby and after meeting two of them. The great thing about the series is that it follow's Luffy's perspective and he has no idea how the world works. We learn at the same pace as him so there's no reason for us to have heard of the Germa before.
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I don't know why, but the Germa 66 organization doesn't feel particularly interesting to me. Maybe it's because it feels like it was shoved into the story out of the sudden, with not a single previous hint of their existence. I mean, if they're such a force to be reckoned with, why haven't we heard of them before?
Because we've never had a true free glimpse into the One Piece world ever at any point. The relative fame of most things is hidden from us, heck even the main cast isn't fully aware of everything the other ones know. Oda keeps us very much in the trenches of Luffy's journey and (with the odd exception of his own past) we see and experience things damn near exactly as he does. And he remains mostly happily ignorant of the world. There's nothing new about this being famous and us being oblivious.
Oda is usually really good with introducing something way ahead of time, and foreshadowing things to come.
He's popped huge revelations on us from nowhere for ages now. Ace for instance, also Dragon being Luffy's father.
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Maybe it was already asked but how the hell is sanji's father so much bigger than his son?
For the same reason Garp and Dragon are bigger than Luffy (and Garp is bigger than Dragon). Oda has frequently made older characters get bigger in both height and muscle/fat mass. Look at the picture of young Garp with Sengoku and Tsuru. I'd say he's probably about Dragon's size (based on nothing) in that picture and now he's much bigger. Just how it works in their world.
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@Kaido:
Given what we know, it appears that Brulee becomes the reflection. By doing so, she copies Luffy's speech and actions perfectly. However, it seems that there is an advantage she can gain by dictating what she and Luffy do first. Brulee made sure to follow the others first, which forced Luffy to go in the opposite direction. Luffy attempted to call out the bluff to the crew, causing Brulee to do it as well, but Brulee managed to cover their mouths in time. This mirror ability is mighty interesting and I can't wait to see it in further uses.
My dilema is how why Oda introduced it this way and what at all he aims to accomplish with Brulee's power and what happened in this chapter. Break up this group of crew further?
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Why hasn't anyone thought of naming daddy Vinsmoke as "Judji"? It's a pun on judge, providing english speakers with an easy way to tell how it's pronounced, and has the "ji" ending of the Vinsmokes. Perfect in my view.
Someone should contact Steven with this.
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Since the color spread says "Navy", I guess it doesn't hurt to call the Marines either or.
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I hope the fight gets interrupted because a loss for either one would be bad. Sanji's dad losing would just make Germa not very imposing. Sanji losing AGAIN is like… he's already jobbed way too much since the time skip so..
He just kicked Yonji's ass offscreen so…
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I'm thinking Sanji turned out his brother for ogling Nami's wanted poster… :ninja:
lol ,yeah i bet Sanji sees Yonji making perverted face while looking Nami's wanted poster and Sanji just kick him just like when he kick Kinemon on Punk Hazard. they fight because of it and Yonji lost….................
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There is no problem if sanii gets defeated now as long as he return at the end of the arc and wins. Unlike the fights with Doflamingo and vergo that he didn't get a second shot.But I think his CoA will be saved for the second round, not now, since that seems to be the new thing for the M3.
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This post is deleted!
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I don't know why, but the Germa 66 organization doesn't feel particularly interesting to me. Maybe it's because it feels like it was shoved into the story out of the sudden, with not a single previous hint of their existence. I mean, if they're such a force to be reckoned with, why haven't we heard of them before? at the very least, that "famous" propaganda comic strip Sora should have been found by some character before, followed by a brief weird reaction from Sanji, when the evil army is mentioned.Oda is usually really good with introducing something way ahead of time, and foreshadowing things to come. But this felt like he had the idea very recently. There is nothing wrong with that, but since it involves Sanji, a main characer introduced almost 800 chapters ago, it feels weird to me.
Well, we didn't know about marines as strong as Fujitora. And the war was a good reasong to think we had seen all the big bosses of the marine… but nope. Likely we'll see new powerfull characters appearing in the future, not to many I guess. Anyway, to me, what's important about Germa is not its power but rather that they are Sanji's family. And that Sanji has a family has always being something believable, not forced.
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Well, we didn't know about marines as strong as Fujitora. And the war was a good reasong to think we had seen all the big bosses of the marine… but nope.
He was not part of the marines back then.
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He was not part of the marines back then.
Right. Then it was a surprise when we came to see him for the first time.
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I don't know why, but the Germa 66 organization doesn't feel particularly interesting to me. Maybe it's because it feels like it was shoved into the story out of the sudden, with not a single previous hint of their existence. I mean, if they're such a force to be reckoned with, why haven't we heard of them before? at the very least, that "famous" propaganda comic strip Sora should have been found by some character before, followed by a brief weird reaction from Sanji, when the evil army is mentioned.Oda is usually really good with introducing something way ahead of time, and foreshadowing things to come. But this felt like he had the idea very recently. There is nothing wrong with that, but since it involves Sanji, a main characer introduced almost 800 chapters ago, it feels weird to me.
they are supposed to be a secret,nobody knows they are still around other than the high part of the WG and of course the underbelly of the pirate world..nothing strange in us not knowing about them until now. Also,the fact that sanji was from north blue was hinted back at skypiea..i doubt oda thought of his story only now.
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@.access:
I was under the impression it was the real Luffy who answered, but he misunderstood what Nami was trying to say. When Nami told him there were traps in the forest, he understood it as if she was asking for him to take care of them and that's why he ran deeper into the woods.
Yes, it could be interpreted as Luffy answering the first time: Got it!. The reason why I think it was the reflection doing it for him was the "?!" above his head, followed by the next scene with another one as they start running. I think both of these are from Luffy, surprised that the mirror is working both ways. If you see Luffy-reflection covering his mouth, his scar can be seen on the right cheek slightly. Also, how the sentence begins, hey guys that isn't… [hide][/hide] @Bartholemew:
So, this reflection power not only can mimic movements perfectly, but also control the actual movements of the one it mimics? That's incredibly broken!
Yes it is, however a very simple method can be used to minimize its power. That would be area of effect. Controlling the reflected individual only occurs in a specific space. On another note, I think Sanji-pop is someone else entirely, not just another reflection, illusion from Brulle.
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Well yeah obviously. It isn't mirrored.
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^Some people have grouped them all together. I do not know why I felt the need to declare my point of view on the subject. I already said I thought it was the "chesire cat" of One Piece.
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@Tamiel:
Yes, it could be interpreted as Luffy answering the first time: Got it!. The reason why I think it was the reflection doing it for him was the "?!" above his head, followed by the next scene with another one as they start running. I think both of these are from Luffy, surprised that the mirror is working both ways. If you see Luffy-reflection covering his mouth, his scar can be seen on the right cheek slightly. Also, how the sentence begins, hey guys that isn't…
I guess it makes sense. The "!?" marks were something I wasn't managing to fit in, but if you guys are right and Brûlée is controlling Luffy, it would explain it.
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Perhaps Randolph has the ability to create illusions, which would explain the appearance of Sanji and the chase toward him leading to Randolph's ambush. And maybe he can use the illusion power to change his own appearance, so he can make himself look like a rabbit.
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I think we just got introduced to 2 of the matches this arc. Carrot vs rabbit in boots, weather witch nami vs mirror witch Nami. And sure, sanji vs his pops is a good bet too. But it's too early for them to win now, so later.
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I don't need your moneyForget about that honey,I just wanna be a cook ~
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Brulee's missing a bag of red apples.
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You know I just want to see more Carrot in action, due to the fact she is stealing my heart with every scene that she is in.
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I wonder, what's everyone's take on the relationship between Sanji and Judge? Why does Sanji hate his father so much? I noticed when Judge called Sanji his son, Sanji said that even if he said he had a parent, it wouldn't be him. At this point, it's assumed that Sanji sees Zeff as his father figure. But then you wonder to yourself, what happened to the mother? She couldn't have just disappeared outta nowhere. Something happened to her that caused a falling-out between father and son, which led to the son running away, but what?
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@The:
I wonder, what's everyone's take on the relationship between Sanji and Judge? Why does Sanji hate his father so much? I noticed when Judge called Sanji his son, Sanji said that even if he said he had a parent, it wouldn't be him. At this point, it's assumed that Sanji sees Zeff as his father figure. But then you wonder to yourself, what happened to the mother? She couldn't have just disappeared outta nowhere. Something happened to her that caused a falling-out between father and son, which led to the son running away, but what?
Still, if Judge did something to his mother, then why is Sanji the only brother out of the 5 upset and the others are fine with it?
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I don't know why, but the Germa 66 organization doesn't feel particularly interesting to me. Maybe it's because it feels like it was shoved into the story out of the sudden, with not a single previous hint of their existence. I mean, if they're such a force to be reckoned with, why haven't we heard of them before? at the very least, that "famous" propaganda comic strip Sora should have been found by some character before, followed by a brief weird reaction from Sanji, when the evil army is mentioned.Oda is usually really good with introducing something way ahead of time, and foreshadowing things to come. But this felt like he had the idea very recently. There is nothing wrong with that, but since it involves Sanji, a main characer introduced almost 800 chapters ago, it feels weird to me.
Quite the opposite actually. He's had this idea at least since post Enies Lobby. Or do you think he gave Sanji that stupid bounty image just to have a gag scene with Duval later? Not to mention other "hints" such as Mr. Prince from Arabasta.
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his father might have beat and eventually left here somewhere that is why sanji would not dare to beat women, he does not want to become like his father
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@uniaka:
Still, if Judge did something to his mother, then why is Sanji the only brother out of the 5 upset and the others are fine with it?
Maybe each son is from a different mother.
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@uniaka:
Still, if Judge did something to his mother, then why is Sanji the only brother out of the 5 upset and the others are fine with it?
Maybe Sanji had a strong bond with his mom and always wanted to spend time with her. Then when he found out something horrible happened to her, Sanji got really heartbroken and angry compared to the others.
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@uniaka:
Still, if Judge did something to his mother, then why is Sanji the only brother out of the 5 upset and the others are fine with it?
Sanji's siblings might all fully embrace their life style and what ever happened to mom was "just the way it is" to them. Growing in any environment or culture make certain things common place and normal. Sanji's mom could have been on the scary end of the Germa culture and Sanji was that one guy who could see through it all as something backwards or uncivilized and lashed out. Like Sabo I suppose. I would love to get some actual new info on Zeff but I would be extremely satisfied if Sanji just said something like "The Pirate Red Leg Zeff was better father than you could ever hope to be!" It's like with my Chinese in laws, we all know they love each other, I just like to hear it said out loud from time to time.
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they are supposed to be a secret,nobody knows they are still around other than the high part of the WG and of course the underbelly of the pirate world..nothing strange in us not knowing about them until now.
If Vitto mentioned a comic strip inspired by the Germa 66, then it's not that much of a secret is it? If they are "popularly known throughout the world as the main antagonists of the fictional hero Sora" their existence is well known. The Illuminatti is supposed to be a secret, but people talk about them a lot. We don't see but we hear about it. Mystery stories are one of people's favorite subjects of conversation. The Revolutionaries are also a somewhat secretive organization, but we heard about them multiple times and Dragon was introduced early in chapter 100. Can you imagine if the existence of their entire group was introduced just now, on chapter 825+? Wouldn't it feel a little strange? The minks live in isolation and have nothing to do with any of the straw hats' past, but yet they were hinted at 300 chapters before their introduction. To be clear, I'm not complaining, I love the story, regardless. The introduction of Germa 66 just feels a little less organic than that of other important groups. @Downloading:
Quite the opposite actually. He's had this idea at least since post Enies Lobby. Or do you think he gave Sanji that stupid bounty image just to have a gag scene with Duval later? Not to mention other "hints" such as Mr. Prince from Arabasta.
You missed my point. Those hints you said are not related to the Germa 66 organization. They only hint to the fact that Sanji is from a royal family from which he ran away. But his family isn't just royalty, they're a huge technologically advanced military/mercenary force, involved in many operations and civil wars throughout history. That's a big difference in relevancy.
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If Vitto mentioned a comic strip inspired by the Germa 66, then it's not that much of a secret is it? If they are "popularly known throughout the world as the main antagonists of the fictional hero Sora" their existence is well known.
All true. Too bad though that Luffy is our vehicle for experiencing the One Piece world. And Luffy is perpetually ignorant and clueless of the world. Our vehicle is not Robin here.
The Illuminatti is supposed to be a secret, but people talk about them a lot. We don't see but we hear about it.
The Illuminati don't exist.
Mystery stories are one of people's favorite subjects of conversation.
Not Luffy's.
The Revolutionaries are also a somewhat secretive organization, but we heard about them multiple times and Dragon was introduced early in chapter 100.
We didn't learn about the revolutionaries until Vol.45, or for that matter who Dragon was to Luffy. Before that he was just a mysterious dangerous man the government was worried about. There were hints about the revolutionaries existing, but nothing about Luffy being his son.Ace also popped up out of the blue.
Can you imagine if the existence of their entire group was introduced just now, on chapter 825+?
I can imagine how shocking and sudden Luffy being Dragon's son was in Volume 45, because I was reading when that chapter came out. And it was a big random piece of news. This is no different.
The introduction of Germa 66 just feels a little less organic than that of other important groups.
What major groups are you comparing them too? Because they aren't as major as the Shichibukai, Admirals, or Yonkou.
You missed my point. Those hints you said are not related to the Germa 66 organization. They only hint to the fact that Sanji is from a royal family from which he ran away. But his family isn't just royalty, they're a huge technologically advanced military/mercenary force, involved in many operations and civil wars throughout history.
You've somehow got it in your head that they're a bigger deal than they are. I don't recall them being described as being that level. They are a major North Blue player, and were one. But that's the extent we've heard of. Now they do mercenary work for hire apparently.
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Manga Stream translates Big Mom's daughter name as "Brûlée" (like "crème brûlée", which is a popular dessert). We were having doubts in the spoiler section but it's clear, now.
Oda use a lot of frensh references in One Piece so I'm surprise no one seems to believe me when I said that Boa Hancock is tribute to Thomas Hancock and Boadicée
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The existence of the Shichibukai, Luffy's brothers, the Gorosei, the Admirals, Cipher Pol, the Revolutionaries, the Yonko, an entire generation of famous pirates, the World Nobles, and now the Vinsmoke Family/Germa Kingdom all appeared pretty suddenly. The Gorosei were first shown reacting to something that Luffy did. The Revolutionaries and Yonko only became known when Garp told about them to Luffy. And all the others were first introduced when Luffy encountered them. The story of One Piece is not a history book of a made-up world; it's about Luffy exploring the world after leaving what he thought was just a normal and mostly unimportant childhood. All the stuff he thought was important was the exposition. The introduction of all these groups is done in a way to develop Luffy and sometimes the other members of his crew and help them on their journey to the top. But at the same time, I will point out that pretty much all these groups and related developments were foreshadowed in some way before they actually appeared.
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I also feel like Germa 66 came a bit out of nowhere. But I think things will come together as things are explained.
One thing I'd like to know is their relationship with countries like Fleevance and Lvneel. How old is Germa? If they are a recent organization, did they interact with pirates operating in the North Blue, like the Donquixote Family?
Let's wait and see. I'm hoping for a Sanji flashback… -
You missed my point. Those hints you said are not related to the Germa 66 organization. They only hint to the fact that Sanji is from a royal family from which he ran away. But his family isn't just royalty, they're a huge technologically advanced military/mercenary force, involved in many operations and civil wars throughout history. That's a big difference in relevancy.
But it still a royal family isn' it? You don't get to participate in a Reverie without being a king/queen.
Remember the times when Devil Fruits were only a myth everywhere outside of the Grand Line?
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I also feel like Germa 66 came a bit out of nowhere. But I think things will come together as things are explained.One thing I'd like to know is their relationship with countries like Fleevance and Lvneel. How old is Germa? If they are a recent organization, did they interact with pirates operating in the North Blue, like the Donquixote Family?Let's wait and see. I'm hoping for a Sanji flashback…
They can't be a recent thing, since Brook remembers about them from when he was alive and he talked about them as having once ruled North Blue through military might. That makes me think that some time, while Brook was in the Florian Triangle, the Germa lost the North Blue for some reason and they were kind of erased from history but kept living on through propaganda in the form of the Sora comic. Thus, they became somewhat of a myth. And more recently, Judji came up with the dream of conquering the North Blue once again and that's when the four nation coup happened. In his efforts to take back the North.