Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!

Ubiq

@Louis-1988:

Bernie wasn't expected to take as many states as he did tonight or do as well he did in Mass and that should generate a lot of momentum for him as we get into important states like Michigan and Ohio.

Michigan is not exactly a state Bernie can count on getting a lot of support in; it has one of the highest black populations outside of the South.

Half of her super delegates still remain unpledged. This race isn't as hopeless as some people here seem to think it is is all I'm trying to get across.

There's zero reason for those delegates to switch when Hillary is racking up massive wins; she has well over a million more votes than he does at this point, won twice as many states, and a lot more pledged delegates.

Wagomu

Bernie's best states were always gonna be on the back end of the primary season, so I'll take what he got as a victory, whatever size it is.

Ubiq

@Wagomu:

Bernie's best states were always gonna be on the back end of the primary season

Montana and the Dakotas are hardly major hauls even if they do fall into the favorable demographics (AKA WasF) for Bernie category.

Cyan D. Funk

@Ubiq:

Montana and the Dakotas are hardly major hauls even if they do fall into the favorable demographics (AKA WasF) for Bernie category.

Also they vote in June and there's a hella lot more states in between now and then.

Also California votes at the same time because reasons.

Robby

@Louis-1988:

How can you compare it to Obama who at this point in 2008 election lost Mass by 16 points to Hillary and not say this is a feather in Bernie's cap? They pretty much split the delegates right down the middle in Mass. That is huge for him.

Because after Super Tuesday in 2008 it was
Clinton: 50.2% (7,347,971)
Obama: 49.8% (7,294,851)
and Obama had won 13 states to Clinton's 9.

After which he pulled ahead and stayed ahead once people caught onto "he can actually win this!"

So yes, Bernie may have done better than Obama in one particular state or another, but it was much, much closer overall and he was in much better shape. Comparitively Bernie is a million votes behind and has lost far more states and the ones coming up are not going to be good for his "momentum."

He didn't get crushed, but he's nowhere near where Obama was at this point, and saying he is, is either wishful thinking or willfully ignoring the actual facts. Obama was in waaaaay better shape at this point in the race, didn't have a problem with black voters, and Hillary hadn't been the presumptive nominee for 8 years.

I want him to come from behind and win it, but facts is facts, he is NOT doing as well as Obama did.

The race isn't over, and he can pull ahead at the end, but its a long, very hard path at this point… and the party loyals have no real need to abandon Hillary at this point.

Ubiq

Hillary also has a much more commanding lead among superdelegates against Bernie than she ever did against Obama; plus said superdelegates have little reason to leave a Democratic stalwart for somebody who isn't even winning and that doesn't really push the need for a Congress that'll actually pass their agenda.

Cyan D. Funk

@Ubiq:

Hillary also has a much more commanding lead among superdelegates against Bernie than she ever did against Obama; plus said superdelegates have little reason to leave a Democratic stalwart for somebody who isn't even winning and that doesn't really push the need for a Congress that'll actually pass their agenda.

And also wasn't a Democrat until like ten months ago and in fact has spent most of his career shit-talking them.

Ubiq

@Cyan:

And also wasn't a Democrat until like ten months ago and in fact has spent most of his career shit-talking them.

That certainly doesn't help either. I'm kinda surprised that they haven't made more noise about his track record on immigration either though that might come up more down the road when some of the other states with heavy Latino populations start voting; Hillary was definitely to the left of him on that issue while they were in the Senate together.

Boing

@Cyan:

And also wasn't a Democrat until like ten months ago and in fact has spent most of his career shit-talking them.

He's worked incredibly close with the Democrats his entire career and they've had people go out and stump for Bernie in the past and Bernie has stumped as well.
Rightly criticizing isn't "shit-talking".
@Ubiq:

That certainly doesn't help either. I'm kinda surprised that they haven't made more noise about his track record on immigration either though that might come up more down the road when some of the other states with heavy Latino populations start voting; Hillary was definitely to the left of him on that issue while they were in the Senate together.

Because he has a decent record on immigration and protecting illegals, really the only blemish is the reform bill he was against because he thought it would be akin to slave labor and hurt american workers.

Robby

@Boing:

Rightly criticizing isn't "shit-talking".

Maybe not when you're on the outside looking at a discussion, but when you're the one being criticized, it certainly comes off as an insult.

Boing

@Robby:

Maybe not when you're on the outside looking at a discussion, but when you're the one being criticized, it certainly comes off as an insult.

Oh yah i'd recognize that they definitely have a problem with him, but I don't see why people on the outside would categorize it as shit talking.

Robby

@Boing:

Oh yah i'd recognize that they definitely have a problem with him, but I don't see why people on the outside would categorize it as shit talking.

Because in this context, what matters is what the Democratic leaders and party in general think, not "people on the outside."

Ubiq

@Boing:

Because he has a decent record on immigration and protecting illegals, really the only blemish is the reform bill he was against because he thought it would be akin to slave labor and hurt american workers.

Helping Republicans block potentially beneficial legislation and leaving people with nothing at all rather than accepting the flaws and fixing them later isn't really being pro-immigrant.

It's like how McCain used to claim to be pro-veteran and would still do his damnedest to sabotage every veteran's assistance bill that came along because "it didn't do enough."

Jabberwok

In other news, Cruz is now leading in Alaska by a percentage point.

Satsuki

Trump won a lot of states, but it should be noted that only a small percentage of voters actually came out to vote:
http://www.thenation.com/article/get-a-grip-donald-trump-isnt-ushering-in-a-fascist-movement-in-america/

cooldud

@Medical:

He's got the right's racism (I haven't gone a single day of my life without hearing the n word at least 20 times) and the left's economic beliefs.

Until today, I had known left economic + left social (greens), left social + right economic (libertarians) and right social + right economic (Tea Partiers). Your dad might be a unicorn, but he completes my fun personal wacky politics matrix.

Mr. Truth

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/03/02/chris-christies-wordless-screaming/?tid=ss_tw-bottom

His were the eyes of a man who has gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed back, and then he endorsed the abyss.

loneassassin

http://gawker.com/in-wild-cnn-argument-trump-surrogate-claims-kkk-killed-1762314235

I commend Van Jones for not grabbing Jeffrey Lord by the back of his neck and smash his fucking face into the table even though I would not fault him from doing so.

Boing

@Ubiq:

Helping Republicans block potentially beneficial legislation and leaving people with nothing at all rather than accepting the flaws and fixing them later isn't really being pro-immigrant.

It's like how McCain used to claim to be pro-veteran and would still do his damnedest to sabotage every veteran's assistance bill that came along because "it didn't do enough."

It was still one vote in a long career, which is why I said decent.

cooldud

@Boing:

It was still one vote in a long career, which is why I said decent.

You do realise that that very long political career started and almost completely comprised of shitting on Democrats until he came to Washington and actually had to work with them to get anything done?

Boing

@cooldud:

You do realise that that very long political career started and almost completely comprised of shitting on Democrats until he came to Washington and actually had to work with them to get anything done?

Yes, i've seen old videos (read stuff too) of him talking about the party (even talking about how he would have preferred if Jesse Jackson didn't run within the democratic party when talking about why he supported him and the campaign lol) and it wasn't particularly kind.

Outerspec

I slept through this whole thing. Not surprised by the results.

@Purple:

Outerspec I sure hope you're marinading your shoes right now

Haha. :p

Rogues' Gallery

The Bernie or Bust crowd is realllly pissing me off now. So I'm checking social media, and there's an absolute torrent of idiotic horseshit images like these making the rounds. I mean, LOOK AT THIS SHIT.

[Hide]

[/Hide]

Even more infuriating are the comments beneath these images with fine gems like

"Haha, so true, this is 100% right on point"

"So we've got the prospect of an Orwellian police state on the left and am inevitable global instigating bafoon on the right…o boy"

"Wall Street proudly gives you Hillary to keep the 1% wealthy and the rest of us scraping by. Yay us"

"People will vote Shillary cause "at least she isn't the republican." She'll win it all because of this. Her and Trump will then collaborate."

<–What the actual Fuck?

Honestly, I like Bernie Sanders as a politician. He seems like a really earnest guy, someone you can relate to, and would probably be great to chat with. But the mentality of his "supporters" are turning me away from him. (and I define supporters very loosely, because anyone willing to withold their vote, or worse, vote Trump in over Hillary just to teach America a nonsensical "lesson" never truly understood Bernie's message or policies to begin with)

The Bernie followers are ignorant and foolish enough to damn themselves along with the entire country if they don't get their way.

Green_vs_Red

@Rogues':

<–What the actual Fuck?

Honestly, I like Bernie Sanders as a politician. He seems like a really earnest guy, someone you can relate to, and would probably be great to chat with. But the mentality of his "supporters" are turning me away from him. (and I define supporters very loosely, because anyone willing to withold their vote, or worse, vote Trump in over Hillary just to teach America a nonsensical "lesson" never truly understood Bernie's message or policies to begin with)

The Bernie followers are ignorant and foolish enough to damn themselves along with the entire country if they don't get their way.

You can still like Bernie in spite of his "alleged" supporters. But it is funny (and sad) to see these people completely disregard how politics work.

CCC

I really don't think the people making dank memes for imageboards represent a significant proportion of voters. The "Bernie Bros" concept in the first place started with a few off-message misogynistic tweets/reddit posts that media outlets took and blew up into headlines like "Bernie Sanders Supporters Hate Women, Represent Real Problem for Campaign" because…why else? The media was stacked against Bernie for months. The comparison to Gamergate seems easy to make ("small minority ruining it for the rest of us," claim supposed actual representatives of movement) except that the base position(s) in this case are wholly good (aka the things Bernie stands for) while Gamergate as a whole was always toxic.

Like you said, anyone willing to withhold their vote or give it to Trump doesn't seem like much of a liberal to me, but more importantly, they barely intersect with your average mild-mannered Democrat/left-leaner/moderate, which is the bloc that makes elections happens. Loud obnoxious voices on the internet, in this case, aren't representative.

Personally, I don't like a lot of what Hillary seems to be about, and I'll be pulling for/donating to/buying T-shirts from Bernie until the bitter end, but Hillary's certainly got my vote in the general...

Rogues' Gallery

@Green_vs_Red:

You can still like Bernie in spite of his "alleged" supporters. But it is funny (and sad) to see these people completely disregard how politics work.

I do like Bernie, and wouldn't object to voting for him if he received the democratic nomination over Hillary (which is unlikely, but not unwelcome), but cannot call myself a full-fledged Bernie supporter due to how stubbornly blind a block of his voters (but not all) can be.

Demon Rin

Yeah, Bernie himself had to step in and tell a bunch of his supporters to stop being jerks at one point when they were accusing Hillary supporters of only supporting her because she's a woman, and that naturally devolved into a misogynistic storm….

The fact that Bernie himself called them out is what makes me not blame him for this. Just look at Donald "Doesn't Immediately Condemn the KKK" Drumpf. It's not typically politically smart to attack the people who are gonna vote for you unless it's REALLY warranted, so I respect Bernie for calling out the BS.

Bugs

Carson likely to suspend his ~~campaign~~ ~~pyramid~~ granary scheme soon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ben-carson-to-tell-supporters-he-sees-no-path-forward-for-campaign/2016/03/02/d6bef352-d9b3-11e5-891a-4ed04f4213e8_story.html

Horizon

@CCC:

I really don't think the people making dank memes for imageboards represent a significant proportion of voters.

Maybe they don't, but you should check Elizabeth warren's facebook. Bernie's supporters are harrassing her in large numbers simply because she hasn't endorsed him. What's annoying me most about the Bernie stans are their condescending attitudes. They think that anyone who isn't voting for him is uneducated & they're being low-key racist to minorities for not supporting him even though he hasn't tried very hard to get their votes.

CCC

And they should definitely be condemned for that. And for talking down to any minority. Elizabeth Warren obviously doesn't "owe" her allegiance to anyone, and the idea that she's a shadow agent for HRC or remotely nefarious in any way is absurd. I'm pulling for her in the next election, honestly.

I'm just saying obnoxious outraged manbabies don't affect elections, numbers-wise (on the left, anyway. That's all they've got on the right), and the concept of the Bernie Bro was blown way out of proportion because it makes good clickbait.

For the record, though, tons of Americans are uneducated about most things. Woefully so. Trump wouldn't be where he is if that weren't the case. Pretty much every person in this thread is more educated on the issues/politics than the average American, simply by virtue of the fact that we're even discussing these things.

Rogues' Gallery

@CCC:

For the record, though, tons of Americans are uneducated about most things. Woefully so. Trump wouldn't be where he is if that weren't the case.

It still boggles the mind that a man with ZERO political experience who's platform is run entirely on degrading insults, bigotry, misogyny, and inflated egotism is a close contender for President of the United States.

It's absolutely insane.

Cyan D. Funk

Trump appeals to the actual Republican base: embittered, older, working-class white people who felt fucked over by the changes in the 60s-70s and by extension the Democrats (who helped cause those changes.)

There's been a big disconnect between the interests of the Republican upper echelon (BIG BUSINESS GOOD, REGULATION BAD, TAX ON RICH PEOPLE BAD, SOCIAL SECURITY IS FOR LAZY PEOPLE) and the interests of the people who actually vote Republican (DAMN IMMIGRANTS THREATENING MY JOB, DARN UPPITY MINORITIES, SOCIAL SECURITY IS SORTA OKAY) brewing for years, Trump's just the first candidate to expose this fact.

Trump is ironically more on the side of John Q. Republican than the rest of the clown car.

Medical Orbit

I read that Neo-Nazis pushed and yelled at a black woman at a Trump rally recently?

Green_vs_Red

@Medical:

I read that Neo-Nazis pushed and yelled at a black woman at a Trump rally recently?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/neo-nazis-at-trump-rally-rough-up-black-woman-youre-scum-your-time-will-come/

Ubiq

@Cyan:

There's been a big disconnect between the interests of the Republican upper echelon (BIG BUSINESS GOOD, REGULATION BAD, TAX ON RICH PEOPLE BAD, SOCIAL SECURITY IS FOR LAZY PEOPLE) and the interests of the people who actually vote Republican (DAMN IMMIGRANTS THREATENING MY JOB, DARN UPPITY MINORITIES, SOCIAL SECURITY IS SORTA OKAY) brewing for years, Trump's just the first candidate to expose this fact.

The GOP establishment has been using the latter interests to achieve the former for decades; Trump just made subtext overt text by foregoing racist dogwhistles and just being flat-out racist. Unfortunately for his competition, those positions are pretty much doctrine for the GOP these days so that they can't really challenge him. They can't attack the "MAKE AMERICA GREAT" line because that would be tacit admission that things have actually improved under Obama; just imagine the manufactured outrage that would stem from conservatives over a Democratic candidate running with that same message.

They can't point out how much benefit this country gets from immigrants because of all the "border security" lines that they pushed over the years. At best, it's a tepid "some are good, some are bad" response that's only provoked by the fact that two of the candidates had parents who weren't from the United States. Had Rubio and Cruz not been in there, there wouldn't have been any objections to his lines at all. And so on; it's hard to point out that somebody is a liar if their nonsense basically amounts to the core message of your own party.

Vectorkov

This video sums up Trump's supporters:

Jabberwok

@Ubiq:

The GOP establishment has been using the latter interests to achieve the former for decades; Trump just made subtext overt text by foregoing racist dogwhistles and just being flat-out racist. Unfortunately for his competition, those positions are pretty much doctrine for the GOP these days so that they can't really challenge him. They can't attack the "MAKE AMERICA GREAT" line because that would be tacit admission that things have actually improved under Obama; just imagine the manufactured outrage that would stem from conservatives over a Democratic candidate running with that same message.

Seems pretty simple to me. Just say that he's not going to "make America great," he's going to ruin the country, burn every political bridge he can get his stubby greasy fingers on, and turn the government into one of fascist overreach. Extra points to Republican candidates who say this for actually telling the truth for once. They don't have to say that America has improved under Obama, just that it will get worse [than it already is] under Trump.

taboo

whats the chance we could get a Hillary/Bernie or a Bernie/Hillary ticket for the actual presidential election?

Boing

@taboo:

whats the chance we could get a Hillary/Bernie or a Bernie/Hillary ticket for the actual presidential election?

Low, Bernie won't pull in any votes for her and fans on both sides (like me) would be largely disgusted.

Ubiq

@taboo:

whats the chance we could get a Hillary/Bernie or a Bernie/Hillary ticket for the actual presidential election?

It doesn't make sense for Hillary to go that route; Bernie is older than her and doesn't really increase her chances of winning a battleground state. She'd be better off going with somebody like Julian Castro on that front.

For Bernie, it'd make sense since he definitely has problems with certain demographics that Clinton does amazingly well with but I doubt that she'd accept.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Totals for Democratic contests:

Hillary - 3,529,799 primary votes, 1,052 (595/457) delegates, 11 states
Bernie - 2,351,116 primary votes, 427 (405/22) delegates, 5 states

Monkey King

@taboo:

whats the chance we could get a Hillary/Bernie or a Bernie/Hillary ticket for the actual presidential election?

Extremely unlikely. By the time it comes down to VP selection time regardless of which one gets the nomination they're going to have to address that they'd both be the oldest president ever if they won.
Which as ever means VP picks are going to focus on youth.

Robby

Reagan was just a few days shy of 70 when he was elected (and 78 and going senile when he left), and the candidates on both sides are that old, so I don't think it's going to be a major issue in the campaigns (certainly not like it was with Obama/McCain) since neither side can really hit the other for it, but yeah… the average age is more the 50-60 range, and it will be a issue, and they're almost certainly going to be picking younger healthier VP choices since the imminent threat of "death while in office" is absolutely there. It's a stressful job, after all.

Also, if Bernie made it to Pres and Hillary was his VP, he'd be dead within the year. "Natural causes."

Cyan D. Funk

@Robby:

Also, if Bernie made it to Pres and Hillary was his VP, he'd be dead within the year. "Natural causes."

"Hey, Big Louie. It's Hilldog. Listen, remember that Foster job? Yeah, I got another one. Gonna leave the car up in Albany, can you drop it off in the Hudson for me?"

Louis-1988

@Robby:

Reagan was just a few days shy of 70 when he was elected (and 78 and going senile when he left), and the candidates on both sides are that old, so I don't think it's going to be a major issue in the campaigns (certainly not like it was with Obama/McCain) since neither side can really hit the other for it, but yeah… the average age is more the 50-60 range, and it will be a issue, and they're almost certainly going to be picking younger healthier VP choices since the imminent threat of "death while in office" is absolutely there. It's a stressful job, after all.

Also, if Bernie made it to Pres and Hillary was his VP, he'd be dead within the year. "Natural causes."

That's just horrible.

Satsuki

I heard an interesting theory today: Drumpf actually doesn't want the Presidency. He just wants all the hype to add more to his image and his bank. Why? Because the dumbass wouldn't want to work 24/7 like a President is supposed to do. Look at any President, ANY President, and you see them age significantly during their years in office. Just from all the work and stress they go through. A dilettante like Drumpf would not want to be put to the grindstone like that. So either the dumbass doesn't realize how much work the President actually does, or he isn't planning on becoming the President in the end.

Wagomu

@Satsuki:

I heard an interesting theory today: Drumpf actually doesn't want the Presidency. He just wants all the hype to add more to his image and his bank. Why? Because the dumbass wouldn't want to work 24/7 like a President is supposed to do. Look at any President, ANY President, and you see them age significantly during their years in office. Just from all the work and stress they go through. A dilettante like Drumpf would not want to be put to the grindstone like that. So either the dumbass doesn't realize how much work the President actually does, or he isn't planning on becoming the President in the end.

Louis-1988

@Satsuki:

I heard an interesting theory today: Drumpf actually doesn't want the Presidency. He just wants all the hype to add more to his image and his bank. Why? Because the dumbass wouldn't want to work 24/7 like a President is supposed to do. Look at any President, ANY President, and you see them age significantly during their years in office. Just from all the work and stress they go through. A dilettante like Drumpf would not want to be put to the grindstone like that. So either the dumbass doesn't realize how much work the President actually does, or he isn't planning on becoming the President in the end.

Nobody would sink this much time and money into a campaign and lose all sorts of endorsements, business partners, TV show deals, etc if they weren't 100% serious about their run. Trump is for sure all in on his bid.

Purple Hermit

My personal theory is that real life is actually based on Hunter x Hunter and that Drumpf is actually our universe's analogue to Pariston Hill. Makes sense. One is an unreadable, unethical monster who rallies an unreasonably large amount of popularity during an election year and whose brand and name is known publicly for their line of hotels, and the other is Donald Drumpf.

Robby

@Louis-1988:

Nobody would sink this much time and money into a campaign and lose all sorts of endorsements, business partners, TV show deals, etc if they weren't 100% serious about their run. Trump is for sure all in on his bid.

Hes barely sunk any money into it at all. He's loaned everything. If he gets the nod he can repay himself through campaign funds. He's offically only spent like 200,000$, which is kind of a drop in the bucket for the prestige.

He wants the fame, the title, the attention. He doesn't want the job and he never realistically thought he'd get this far, its why he didn't run in any of the previous elections he said he'd run in. He saw it was a weak field this time and thought he could beat those guys. Drumpf floated the idea of running for president in 1988, 2004, and 2012, and for Governor of New York in 2006 and 2014, but did not enter those races. He ran in 2000 and then quit almost immediately after like two primaries, despite winning them.

ALL times where he said he was considering running and he didn't? If he really wanted this he would have tried harder years ago… this is just the time he thinks he can actually skate to something by playing the republican party before he's too old to run. (He ran independant before.) He jumped in expecting to get some talk and publicity and be on the tv 18 hours a day. He didn't really expect to be the frontrunner quite to this degree.

(All the horrible things he's been saying make more sense if you assume he's trying to discourage voters...)

Its the entire reason a corporate mogul hosts a reality tv show that gets him on the air every week where he gets to be the boss and seem important.

As far as the business deals and partners he's lost, drop in the bucket compared to forever being in the history books. Even if he loses, the rival candidates still get their names in textbooks.

@Wagomu:

That story arc always bothered me. It was cool and all, but it really should have taken place earlier in the JL timeline. Luthor running for president after being a public mega-supervillain just never made sense. But doing that, and then falling into villainy with cancer? That would have worked.

Wagomu

I'm not gonna lie, if Trump ended up winning and then conceded to the democrats because he got what he want, that would be be pretty hilarious.

Obviously it would still be terrible for showing the depths to which this nation would sink, and its effects on our populace due to the bigotry he inspired, which are already bad, would be profound and awful, but that move would kill the republican party like a stake in a dracula. Entire party is beaten by toddler, pledges allegiance to said toddler and then is immediately betrayed by that very toddler. I don't think their sanity could survive it.