That's the internet for you. It's especially common with popular stuff.
Top-Selling Manga 2015 in Japan
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How did the Whitebeard war make the series explode like that in 2010 and 2011? Was it because of all the major hyped of characters fighting? Because Naruto had its own war arc and it didn't even dream of that.
Those have to be the 2 single highest selling years for a single manga, right?
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And it's a shame how mediocre those mangas are that are ranked above One Piece. Is Blue Exorcist any good? I watched the first 5-6 episodes, but was horribly disinterested because the show just seemed to move about in a choppy manner. The writing and storytelling felt jerky, the tone changed back and forth, etc.
The anime of Blue Exorcist is pretty bad and stops following the source material halfway through.
The manga is pretty ok and i didn't enjoy it that much though i did kinda like the concept of it. Try reading the first 10 or so chapters to see if you like it and are interested in seeing where the story and characters goes.
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Last year the Top US manga were(only taking the best selling volume in account):
1º Attack on titan -> 54,520
2º Naruto -> 28,342
3º Fairy Tail -> 17,198the top 3 of shame
Is Blue Exorcist any good? I watched the first 5-6 episodes, but was horribly disinterested because the show just seemed to move about in a choppy manner. The writing and storytelling felt jerky, the tone changed back and forth, etc.
I enjoyed reading it, though I stopped at volume 8 because at some point I was interested in other manga, but I'll probably start buying it again.
The anime isn't really good (or at least in my opinion), so try the manga version if you can. -
And it's a shame how mediocre those mangas are that are ranked above One Piece. Is Blue Exorcist any good? I watched the first 5-6 episodes, but was horribly disinterested because the show just seemed to move about in a choppy manner. The writing and storytelling felt jerky, the tone changed back and forth, etc.
The anime stopped following the series at around episode 16 or 18 I think. It was a passable adaptation but not really amazing.
The manga is reasonably well drawn and the series gets a little bit of extra attention because it's a shonen with a female mangaka. The story has moderate peaks that don't always receive the follow through they should and the classmate characters are all pretty developed but simply aren't that interesting.
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I did enjoy the series in the beginning because of the creepy art and it's themes but yea i fall off the series along the way and just recently dropped the series.
Just because you didn't like the series or dropped it, makes it bad or mediocre all of the sudden. Just saiyan.
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Just because you didn't like the series or dropped it, makes it bad or mediocre all of the sudden. Just saiyan.
Not that I agree with him on AoT but if a series becomes bad or mediocre in your eyes isn't dropping it the usual thing?
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AoT fails to do one of the most basic yet important thing which is making me care about what is happening and the main cast. I can talk about the lack of personality in these one-note characters, the dragged out story that feels very aimless, and the grimdark atmosphere with the series taking itself way to seriously but the biggest thing for me is that it fails to make me care about the world, the story and the characters. Which to me is the single biggest failure of any writer.
Exactly. The characters are completely unlikeable to the point they are less interesting than the cast in the worst Final Fantasy game. I haven't read Attack On titan following the end of the anime's first season, because I honest to god hated that series. Same goes for other overhyped trends in what gathers a fanbase in the western world. Tokyo Ghoul too, I thought was an absolute disaster, but everyone told me how ''superawesome'' it was. I just never like them. Saying it get's better later on won't really convince me either, at the very least I should be mildly entertained within the first hours I spend with it. 50 % of AoT is whining, teenage angst and retarded drama. That doesn't make for a very enjoyable series.
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Just because you didn't like the series or dropped it, makes it bad or mediocre all of the sudden. Just saiyan.
Sure there are some series that i personally might hate or not like at all but still can see why it's popular and why people hold it in high regard (HXH). AoT however never really had a strong plot or characters (the fact that a bland personality character like Mikasa is considered to be one of the best character in the series should you how "good" the characters are) and I only read the series because of it's survival horror elements. And after awhile i simply lost whatever little interest i once had.
Opinions aside, i have simply never seen anyone that can make a legit argument for why AoT is worthy of it's hype or why it's a good series.
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Exactly. The characters are completely unlikeable to the point they are less interesting than the cast in the worst Final Fantasy game. I haven't read Attack On titan following the end of the anime's first season, because I honest to god hated that series. Same goes for other overhyped trends in what gathers a fanbase in the western world. Tokyo Ghoul too, I thought was an absolute disaster, but everyone told me how ''superawesome'' it was. I just never like them. Saying it get's better later on won't really convince me either, at the very least I should be mildly entertained within the first hours I spend with it. 50 % of AoT is whining, teenage angst and retarded drama. That doesn't make for a very enjoyable series.
Completely agreed.
On a side note, i did find Tokyo Ghoul interesting in the beginning but yea the series became a clusterfuck to the point where the writer had to rush-end the series and start a completely new series with different cast.
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How did the Whitebeard war make the series explode like that in 2010 and 2011? Was it because of all the major hyped of characters fighting? Because Naruto had its own war arc and it didn't even dream of that.
Those have to be the 2 single highest selling years for a single manga, right?
It was the Strong World effect, as others explained. I mean, the sales wouldn't jump from 5 to 32 million because of an arc only. A good arc can make people stay, but it's not the best way to attract new readers.
The movie was a massive hit that gave the franchise a boost, bringing in thousands of new fans that started buying the entire backlog, until it naturally slowed down, as the fanbase had nowhere to grow anymore - the same thing happening with AoT after it peaked. For that reason it's hard to expect another movie to do the same, i think people who could be OP readers already are, at this point.
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Not that I agree with him on AoT but if a series becomes bad or mediocre in your eyes isn't dropping it the usual thing?
That, erm, wasn't the point. He can drop any series he wants. I too do it all the time.
Sure there are some series that i personally might hate or not like at all but still can see why it's popular and why people hold it in high regard (HXH). AoT however never really had a strong plot or characters (the fact that a bland personality character like Mikasa is considered to be one of the best character in the series should you how "good" the characters are) and I only read the series because of it's survival horror elements. And after awhile i simply lost whatever little interest i once had.
Opinions aside, i have simply never seen anyone that can make a legit argument for why AoT is worthy of it's hype or why it's a good series.
Well, like in any other shonen series it has the ultimate mystery. Like the One Piece in One Piece. And in this series the mystery is even greater. So, I don't see why you dismiss this anime/manga? Unlike some other series, like FT, the author planned everything from the start. And you can see that.
Also in terms of uniqueness: Medieval setting with giant zombies not placed in Japan.
Show me a similar series, please. And the main characters are pretty believable because they lost their relatives in a pretty gruesome way so I don't see why character development is an issue here. There is no difference to any other manga artist what so ever so, wtf? -
That, erm, wasn't the point. He can drop any series he wants. I too do it all the time.
Well, like in any other shonen series it has the ultimate mystery. Like the One Piece in One Piece. And in this series the mystery is even greater. So, I don't see why you dismiss this anime/manga? Unlike some other series, like FT, the author planned everything from the start. And you can see that.
Also in terms of uniqueness: Medieval setting with giant zombies not placed in Japan.
Show me a similar series, please. And the main characters are pretty believable because they lost their relatives in a pretty gruesome way so I don't see why character development is an issue here. There is no difference to any other manga artist what so ever so, wtf?How does that make the series interesting or good for that matter? The story might sound good on paper but it's presented in such an uninteresting way especially for a monthly manga . The titan concept was good until it started hinting at a government conspiracy.
I am pretty sure that majority of zombie stories are very similar to AoT especially with the cliched government conspiracy. It's always come down to characters with a series like this and….. they are pretty damn boring. Probably one of the most boring cast i have in a while.
Characters are still one-note at best. Just because they lost relatives doesn't make them interesting especially when their base personality is so boring. It's pretty obvious how the writer put zero effort into developing their personalities. And if the writer doesn't care then why should i?
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It's pretty obvious how the writer put zero effort into developing their personalities. And if the writer doesn't care then why should i?
This is not true and you probably know that.
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It was the Strong World effect, as others explained. I mean, the sales wouldn't jump from 5 to 32 million because of an arc only. A good arc can make people stay, but it's not the best way to attract new readers.
The movie was a massive hit that gave the franchise a boost, bringing in thousands of new fans that started buying the entire backlog, until it naturally slowed down, as the fanbase had nowhere to grow anymore - the same thing happening with AoT after it peaked. For that reason it's hard to expect another movie to do the same, i think people who could be OP readers already are, at this point.
How did Strong World create such a big boost like that ? - Or rather, what made it such a big hit when One Piece wasn't that much bigger than Naruto at the time?
the top 3 of shame
I enjoyed reading it, though I stopped at volume 8 because at some point I was interested in other manga, but I'll probably start buying it again.
The anime isn't really good (or at least in my opinion), so try the manga version if you can.Fairy Tail is definitely the worst of those 3.
@Jabberwok:The anime stopped following the series at around episode 16 or 18 I think. It was a passable adaptation but not really amazing.
The manga is reasonably well drawn and the series gets a little bit of extra attention because it's a shonen with a female mangaka. The story has moderate peaks that don't always receive the follow through they should and the classmate characters are all pretty developed but simply aren't that interesting.
So do you guys think it's worth jumping back into? Because those first 5 or so episodes I saw had a REALLY jerky story structure to them. I don't know why it felt that way to me. Maybe I need to watch it again if it's good.
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This is not true and you probably know that.
Case and point: Eren and Mikasa, two of the main characters.
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Case and point: Eren and Mikasa, two of the main characters.
Ffs explain yourself, because I see no difference between them and Goku, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Ed Elric.
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So do you guys think it's worth jumping back into? Because those first 5 or so episodes I saw had a REALLY jerky story structure to them. I don't know why it felt that way to me. Maybe I need to watch it again if it's good.
Probably not, if you didn't like the first few episodes. It's also very easy to tell when the series is going off the manga rails even if you haven't read it.
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Ffs explain yourself, because I see no difference between them and Goku, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Ed Elric.
I am talking about Eren and Mikasa lacking any kind of personality that makes them stand out as individual, relate-able and likeable characters and not cardboard cutouts.
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So do you guys think it's worth jumping back into? Because those first 5 or so episodes I saw had a REALLY jerky story structure to them. I don't know why it felt that way to me. Maybe I need to watch it again if it's good.
Don't bother with the anime. Better to experience the original source to see whether you like it or not.
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How did Strong World create such a big boost like that ? - Or rather, what made it such a big hit when One Piece wasn't that much bigger than Naruto at the time?
Not that much bigger? Looking just at the total number One Piece was selling 1,695,486 more copies. If you go watch the volume sales, the worst new One Piece volume was selling 355,119 more copies than the best new Naruto volume. In the reported period One Piece released 3 volumes while Naruto 4.
Also is important to note that Oricon data is incomplete, meaning it is data gathered by a limited number of shops and not all selling places in Japan. The producer of One Piece episode of Chopper, that is also the producer of Film Z, said that at the time of episode of Chopper, in 2008, One Piece volumes were selling around 2,7 to 2,8 Million copies each. Now Naruto best volume 1st print is 1.62 Million, 1,08-1,18 Million less than what the Producer said One Piece sold at that time(At that time the best 1st print volume One Piece had was volume 27 with 2.63 Million copies 1st print).Also note that Strong World effect is only seen in 2010 data, not 2009 the year it came, because Oricon counts December as being of the following year. Strong World came in December 12 of 2009, meaning 2010 data. The increase in popularity started in Saboady and only increased with the "Save Ace saga".
About Strong World effect, there are 2 things. The movie was amazing and there was a lot of word of mouth bringing a lot of new people. The movie promotion was crazy at the time too, from Oda participation in the movie, One Piece appearing in famous fashion Magazines, to One Piece appearing in 1/4(9 pages) of the 2nd most published newspaper in Japan and a lot more.
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For those interested, here is the news that confirmed One Piece being first in French sales recently
http://www.manga-news.com/index.php/actus/2015/11/26/One-piece-confirme-sa-position-de-manga-leader-du-marche-francais
150 000 is just a print sale not real ones. There is not much public figures about real sales. Basically what it says is that volume 77 was in the list of the 20th best book sales in its first week (all kind of books).
It is second place behind Asterix, but I'm not sure if it is all books or only comics. -
How did Strong World create such a big boost like that ? - Or rather, what made it such a big hit when One Piece wasn't that much bigger than Naruto at the time?
One Piece has always been bigger than Naruto from the start and now it's still more popular than Naruto.
Not that much bigger? Looking just at the total number One Piece was selling 1,695,486 more copies. If you go watch the volume sales, the worst new One Piece volume was selling 355,119 more copies than the best new Naruto volume. In the reported period One Piece released 3 volumes while Naruto 4.
Also is important to note that Oricon data is incomplete, meaning it is data gathered by a limited number of shops and not all selling places in Japan. The producer of One Piece episode of Chopper, that is also the producer of Film Z, said that at the time of episode of Chopper, in 2008, One Piece volumes were selling around 2,7 to 2,8 Million copies each. Now Naruto best volume 1st print is 1.62 Million, 1,08-1,18 Million less than what the Producer said One Piece sold at that time(At that time the best 1st print volume One Piece had was volume 27 with 2.63 Million copies 1st print).Also note that Strong World effect is only seen in 2010 data, not 2009 the year it came, because Oricon counts December as being of the following year. Strong World came in December 12 of 2009, meaning 2010 data. The increase in popularity started in Saboady and only increased with the "Save Ace saga".
About Strong World effect, there are 2 things. The movie was amazing and there was a lot of word of mouth bringing a lot of new people. The movie promotion was crazy at the time too, from Oda participation in the movie, One Piece appearing in famous fashion Magazines, to One Piece appearing in 1/4(9 pages) of the 2nd most published newspaper in Japan and a lot more.
well said sir.
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I am talking about Eren and Mikasa lacking any kind of personality that makes them stand out as individual, relate-able and likeable characters and not cardboard cutouts.
Considering the circumstances Eren and Mikasa are under and their history, They would have a serious personality.
Sorry everyone isn't trying to make you feel good or like a character. -
Considering the circumstances Eren and Mikasa are under and their history, They would have a serious personality.
Sorry everyone isn't trying to make you feel good or like a character.Walter White from Breaking Bad, Naked Snake/ Big Boss from MGS, Ocelot from MGS, Guts from Berserk, Deathstroke from DC, Klaus from The Originals, Red from The Blacklist, Sylar from Heroes, Spike from Buffy the Vampire/ Angel etc…... are some of my favorite characters in fiction........
If only "serious" would alone justify shitty characters and their one-dimensional personalities.....
And really Sasuke also had history with his parents dying and stuff and his character was serious. Does that make him a good character or interesting? Fuck no.
There isn't a rule book that says that characters have to be total serious and one-note all the time. They can be serious while also showing different facets of their characters throughout the story.
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Walter White from Breaking Bad, Naked Snake/ Big Boss from MGS, Ocelot from MGS, Guts from Berserk, Deathstroke from DC, Klaus from The Originals, Red from The Blacklist, Sylar from Heroes, Spike from Buffy the Vampire/ Angel etc…... are some of my favorite characters in fiction........
If only "serious" would alone justify shitty characters and their one-dimensional personalities…..
And really Sasuke also had history with his parents dying and stuff and his character was serious. Does that make him a good character or interesting? Fuck no.
There isn't a rule book that says that characters have to be total serious and one-note all the time. They can be serious while also showing different facets of their characters throughout the story.
According to who and what?
Your feelings don't matter. -
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According to who and what?
Your feelings don't matter.….... So why did you reply to me again?
Well that was a complete waste of time.
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Then whose does?
The author's. And those who can relate to such characters.
Not selfish unrealistic whiners. -
The author's. And those who can relate to such characters.
Not selfish unrealistic whiners.Expecting characters to be more than just cardboard cutouts? That somehow seems "unrealistic" to you?Wow talk about low standards.
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So essentially, Strong world had a lot of promotion and good word of mouth? And then that coincided with the manga having a dramatic turn with the crew splitting up and the whitebeard war occuring?
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I remember when some people were saying that "the reign of one piece is over" when shingeki no kyojin appeared :P
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So essentially, Strong world had a lot of promotion and good word of mouth? And then that coincided with the manga having a dramatic turn with the crew splitting up and the whitebeard war occuring?
The other way around! The manga was having a dramatic turn with the crew splitting up an the whitebeard war occurring, and then Strong World promotion and good word of mouth came to increase the franchise to even more incredible heights.
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For those interested, here is the news that confirmed One Piece being first in French sales recently
http://www.manga-news.com/index.php/actus/2015/11/26/One-piece-confirme-sa-position-de-manga-leader-du-marche-francais
150 000 is just a print sale not real ones. There is not much public figures about real sales. Basically what it says is that volume 77 was in the list of the 20th best book sales in its first week (all kind of books).
It is second place behind Asterix, but I'm not sure if it is all books or only comics.About French sales. One Piece since 2012 has been the number 1 top selling manga. The best One Piece volume, that we have sale data, was volume 69 and sold 107k copies in 2014. Naruto best was volume 34 that sold 133k in 2008.
The 2015 data might be released in the end of January.Sales Data(Source: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1389877)::)
2014:
1. One Piece #69 3 jan 107 000
2. One Piece #70 2 avr 102 400
3. One Piece #71 2 juil 89 000
4. Naruto #62 7 mars 87 200
5. One Piece #72 1er oct 75 600
6. Naruto #63 4 juil 73 800
7. Naruto #64 5 sept 67 6002013:
1. One Piece #65 3 janv 96 200
2. One Piece #66 3 avr 86 400
3. Naruto #58 1 mar 85 400
4. One Piece #67 3 juil 83 400
5. Naruto #59 21 juin 79 100
6. Naruto #60 12 sept 71 400
7. One Piece #68 9 oct 69 800
8. Fairy Tail #28 3 janv 56 800
9. Fairy Tail #30 2 mai 53 8002012:
1. One Piece #60 4 janv. 90 900
2. One Piece #61 7 mars 86 600
3. Naruto #55 6 juil. 85 600
4. One Piece #62 23 mai 81 600
5. One Piece #63 4 juil. 77 500
6. Naruto #56 7 sept. 76 800
7. One Piece #64 3 oct. 71 500
8. Naruto #57 2 oct. 64 900
9. Fairy Tail #22 4 jan. 56 600
10. One Piece #1 20 sep. 55 600 | Note: First came in 20002011:
1. Naruto #52 4 mar. 117,100
2. Naruto #53 1 jul. 106,200
3. Naruto #54 4 nov. 84,000
4. One Piece #56 5 jan. 73,600
5. One Piece #57 6 apr. 69,200
6. One Piece #58 7 sep. 64,100
7. Fairy Tail #16 5 jan. 53,900
8. One Piece #59 30 nov. 52,100
9. OnePiece #1 20 sep. 47,700 | Note: First came in 2000
10. Fairy Tail #17 2 mar. 45,300
11. Fairy Tail #18 4 mai. 43,600
12. One Piece #2 22 nov. 42,700 | Note: First came in 2000
13. Fullmetal Alchemist #25 13 jan. 41,400
14. Naruto #51 5 nov. 40,200 | Note: Came in 2010
15. Fairy Tail #20 7 sep. 38,900 -
Woah. This thread suddenly lit on fire. I don't get his complaints about the characters because I feel like he's just repeating the same typical buzzwords (mediocre, one-dimensional, one-note, cardboard cut-out, grimdark etc at this point are really painful to read to me anywhere) over and over without ever explaining (a problem also in all the other popular manga threads that are disliked around here) and thus not supporting his claim very stongly, even then he's right to have that opinion even if I (or someone else) for example doesn't think it's convincing. He's not "wrong" for having it - and everyone's feelings do matter in terms of what they personally think of the series and find in it. There isn't some objective set standard with these things - not in terms of hating or loving. Because people loving a series can be just as shallow. You don't need deeper reasons than "I just think it's good." or "I just think it's bad." just don't go forcing your views on others.
I could write a whole (very long) essay on how much I love Attack On Titan, bring examples of how I think all the characters have grown (some a lot and very obviously), how well (subtly) foreshdowed most of the twists are, how it sets itself apart from other series and it's humanistic themes (plus the body/mind/spirit allegory used to express them), but that doesn't make my opinion anymore legitimate than others. If it's convincing, I'm happy, but if you just don't like a series, that's fine, too. Not everyone also has the time to write at length about a series.
This thread is about sales, anyway, not what everyone actually thinks of the series (though I guess an argument on the quality of these series is to be expected, so I dunno if this is off-topic or not). Maybe take it to the Attack On Titan thread, if you're interested in arguing more? I'm more than happy to because I love the series so much and want to see negative and positive opinions on it outside of "This is the worst thing ever." and "This is the best thing ever."
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It was the Strong World effect, as others explained. I mean, the sales wouldn't jump from 5 to 32 million because of an arc only. A good arc can make people stay, but it's not the best way to attract new readers.
The movie was a massive hit that gave the franchise a boost, bringing in thousands of new fans that started buying the entire backlog, until it naturally slowed down, as the fanbase had nowhere to grow anymore - the same thing happening with AoT after it peaked. For that reason it's hard to expect another movie to do the same, i think people who could be OP readers already are, at this point.
They didn't. Only the second half of 2008 sales were counted as Oricon just started releasing the data.
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How did the Whitebeard war make the series explode like that in 2010 and 2011? Was it because of all the major hyped of characters fighting? Because Naruto had its own war arc and it didn't even dream of that.
Those have to be the 2 single highest selling years for a single manga, right?
It didn't. That boost came from One Piece Film Strong World. It was the first really good one of the films and brought with it a huge new One Piece hype in Japan.
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Ffs explain yourself, because I see no difference between them and Goku, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Ed Elric.
You don't see any difference between Mikasa and Eren and all the guys you mention? Okay, Goku I can understand you think is a pretty weak character, at the very least toward the end of Dragonball. But Goku was an extremely colorful and multilayered individual from the get-go.
What do we learn about Goku when he is first introduced? He is a hermit child, with a close bond to nature, for some reason he is incredibly strong, because he is a hermit child, he is socially inept, he hasn't met a girl in his entire life, he is naive and carefree, he's curious and despite being pretty dim he wants to understand things. We figure all of this out about him in a single freaking chapter and everything that follows are very organic and believable as he goof back and forth without understanding for big city life. He always stay true to his character and later on in the series when he is put to great peril, he reacts like a real human does. With anger or sorrow. And this is also set in a world that doesn't take itself so seriously that everything constantly has to be grim, dark and angsty 100 % of the time. The series has a lighthearted feel to it, but whenever there is a battle there is freaking tension. You want to root for Goku, Krillin or whoever is fighting. Because you felt emotionally invested in him from the beginning.
What do we learn from the first 2 chapters about Mikasa and Eren ? Well, Eren is a nosy brat who's interest in the military culminate to wanting to kill all titans after his parents are killed and Mikasa has no character at all. I'm not saying that everything about a character has to be understood in one chapter, but every character you mentioned has more individuality established in a single chapter than the cast of attack on titan has the entire first fucking season. Storytelling isn't all about having a clever idea, you can have the best idea in the world, but if you don't know how to execute it, you might as well not even try.
One Piece, Dragonball and Fullmetal Alchemist have a much more lighthearted tone to them, but the difference is that whenever something terrible happens in all these series you feel a true impact, because it comes as a shocking wake up call. Like in FMA when we find out Tucker used his daughter for a Chimera, that was a moment damn near everybody felt was downright sickening and disturbing. Why? Because we understand the Elric brothers better from the get-go than we understand everyone in Attack on Titan combined. AoT is constantly trying to push the envelope to be disturbing, but we can't feel more invested in the characters that we care about some stupid teenager in a slasher. When it comes to having that grim tone, plenty of series, in particular Berserk has far better made us understand and relate to the characters we bear witness to. When some fucked up stuff happens, we care, because the characters are actually characters and not just a bunch of walking emotional reactions.
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I think you exaggerating a little here. Shonen MCs, including those we mentioned, are basically running on the trope of having a big goal and one character trait.
And to the grimdarkness. Yes it isn't lighthearted like the other series, but it also isn't 100% grimdark all the time. There are some lighter chapters, where characterization takes place.
Storytelling isn't all about having a clever idea, you can have the best idea in the world, but if you don't know how to execute it, you might as well not even try.
Hm, okay. The author is executing his story very successful right now. Non-linear storyprogression and a shorter runningtime also helps to increase the entertainment, imo.
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I think you exaggerating a little here. Shonen MCs, including those we mentioned, are basically running on the trope of having a big goal and one character trait.
Having one goal - yes, absolutely. And that's not gonna cut it in the long run and especially not for new up-and-coming series.
For One Piece however, it really works, because it's been established for so long and is such a wellexecuted formula. One trait - absolutely not, alot of people borrow from the Goku characterization of a dimwitted, campy optimist that is countered by a cynical lancer. But they are rarely one-traited, especially not the people you mentioned, with extra emphasis on Edward.
And to the grimdarkness. Yes it isn't lighthearted like the other series, but it also isn't 100% grimdark all the time. There are some lighter chapters, where characterization takes place.
I haven't gotten that far into the series, so I can't make any statements on that. Problem is that AoT doesn't establish characters well from the beginning and don't do it for a very long time.
Hm, okay. The author is executing his story very successful right now. Non-linear storyprogression and a shorter runningtime also helps to increase the entertainment, imo.
Problem is that he didn't do this from the start. If you like AoT from the beginning, there won't be any issues about this, but I care less about spectacle than I care about script. It's not unredeemable, but I just don't see AoT grabbing my attention.
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dammit toriko not even in top 30
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Couldn't have put it better myself.
! And yea the beginning chapters of AoT focus more on grim dark and exposition rather than letting the audience understand the characters. It's one of the reasons why the death of Eren's mother just comes off as a cheap plot death for Eren's motivation rather than something that's explored and makes the audience care which in turn shows the impact that has on Eren and why he wants revenge against them. In manga, however, it's just quickly rushed to get on with the story.
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None of the characters you mentioned are even close to being defined by one trait. They are multi-layered characters who the audience has great understanding of during the course of the story.
! Grim dark stuff is not the problem. Berserk is far far darker than AoT yet it can also provide better understanding of its characters. Just to give you an example; Berserk spent close to 10 volumes on exploring Gut's backstory, his character growth and his relationship with the Band of Hawk and when shit hits the fan, it has a greater impact on the audience because they understood and cared about who Guts is and the overall reason why he wants revenge on Griffith.
! AoT,on the other hand, rushes through the part that would have allowed the audience to understand and care about these characters. This is the reason why Eren comes off as a generic shallow character with no real character aside from "REVENGE" because the writer never bothered to show who he and why he is who he is. Instead it simply sticked with " i want revenge because titans killed my mother". I know that length doesn't matter but i would rather have a slow-paced arc like Berserk that lets the audience understand and care about the character then have heavy-story with no real emotion or investment behind it.
! Story isn't anything if the audience doesn't care about it's main lead characters which is the driving force of any story. At least for me.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
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So basically shitty characters and stories don't exist and it's just a matter of opinion? Despite the obvious writing flaws? And just in general lacking any kind of human-emotion or soul behind it? Sorry but i find that concept very baffling.
Also who cares about only character growth? Lots of people think that character development is just about change when it really is about how the character changes and why. I could write a story about a weak person who suddenly becomes strong and that would be extremely lazy writing. Good writer, however, would show how and why the character changes naturally.
Maybe i am missing something but i never thought character development in Attack on Titan was anything worth-mentioning. Then again i couldn't care less when the their base personalities are so damn boring and doesn't make me care.
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Glad to see 7 deadly sins doing so well. Picked it up thanks to netflix and was surprisingly a good watch.
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So you guys are telling me that if Naruto were to have a movie on par with strong world, it could have blown up the way One Piece did? That's what I'm not understanding. The series just EXPLODED during 2009-2010. Like, it was selling like 14 million one year, then 32 million the next. And I'm surprised Strong World even did as great as it did.
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Attack on Titan discussion
! eren's mom's death is supposed to be a plot device that propels him into the military. We weren't supposed to care about her death, considering that she wasn't given much dialogue anyway. It was meant so that Eren would have a legitimate reason to join the army (and thus allow our story to begin), and so that it could show how ruthless the Titans are, so that the audience can get invested and ask "how's Eren gonna defeat them? they're tough!". This adds some hype that propels the series forward.
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For those interested, here is the news that confirmed One Piece being first in French sales recently
http://www.manga-news.com/index.php/actus/2015/11/26/One-piece-confirme-sa-position-de-manga-leader-du-marche-francais
150 000 is just a print sale not real ones. There is not much public figures about real sales. Basically what it says is that volume 77 was in the list of the 20th best book sales in its first week (all kind of books).
It is second place behind Asterix, but I'm not sure if it is all books or only comics.That is amazing to see one piece the most the popular manga right now in france. the funny thing is the comments they are complaining about its popularity and how it does not to deserve to be on top lol.
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That is amazing to see one piece the most the popular manga right now in france. the funny thing is the comments they are complaining about its popularity and how it does not to deserve to be on top lol.
Well they are not really representative. One Piece is one of the most visited serie on manga-news site
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So you guys are telling me that if Naruto were to have a movie on par with strong world, it could have blown up the way One Piece did? That's what I'm not understanding. The series just EXPLODED during 2009-2010. Like, it was selling like 14 million one year, then 32 million the next. And I'm surprised Strong World even did as great as it did.
As I said before, it wasn't only the movie. The boost started way before. Also it wasn't just the Marineford War, unless you're talking of it like a Saga and it starts at Sabaody Archipelago. The combination of those 2 things, was the thing that brought the big boost.
I already explained how the Strong World Movie boost is only visible in 2010, 2009 already had a boost. Also note that not only One Piece always was way more popular than Naruto in Japan, but the fact of the creation of the hype at that time was due to the good storytelling of the entire story that was arriving at a climax, and the amazing idea(or luck) of bringing an amazing movie, and amazingly marketed, at that exact time. Basically all the perfect circumstances were there at the time and they were used.If Kishimoto had written the story better, instead of just centering in the triangle: Sasuke-after->Akatsuki(Itachi)-after->Kyuubi(Naruto)-after->Sasuke, an if the story was at a climax section highly liked by the readers and at that exact time Studio Pierrot made a well marketed and good movie, it obviously would get an incredible amount of new readers.
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So you guys are telling me that if Naruto were to have a movie on par with strong world, it could have blown up the way One Piece did? That's what I'm not understanding. The series just EXPLODED during 2009-2010. Like, it was selling like 14 million one year, then 32 million the next. And I'm surprised Strong World even did as great as it did.
The 32,000,000+ numbers represent not only the volumes that came out that year, but all the back-volumes people bought. As I recall, Volume 1 (as an example), was a consistent feature in the Oricon rankings for those years. There were some points when the entire series (or most of it) was featured on the Oricon top charts.
In sum, it was a conglomeration of events that turned it into a super-phenomenon. The movie Strong World, certainly was an important factor. The Marineford Arc was also an important factor. The release of Volume 0 was important. One Piece was featured on television shows, NHK, game shows, Hoko x Tate, newspapers, fashion magazines, amusement parks, etc.,
There is no series in recent manga history that has reached such a height in Japanese culture, and its a conglomeration of things that made it happen. There are few other series that can even come close, and many of them have not done as well. There's a reason One Piece hit the world record this year.
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Okay, I think I get it now. So it was the most popular manga, was critically acclaimed, and as a result was given heavy promotion for the Strong world movie (as it looked like it could reach the mainstream hype that Dragon Ball had), and that attracted a lot of newcomers who bought the early volumes.
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Yep, basically that.
One thing, when you talk of mainstream hype that Dragon Ball had, you're talking of the franchise overall, or manga sales? In terms of manga sales, One Piece by that time had already surpassed Dragon Ball by a long shot. Dragon Ball best volume got a 1st print of 2 Million copies, One Piece by that time best volume a 1st print of 2.63 Million copies.
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Yep, basically that.
One thing, when you talk of mainstream hype that Dragon Ball had, you're talking of the franchise overall, or manga sales? In terms of manga sales, One Piece by that time had already surpassed Dragon Ball by a long shot. Dragon Ball best volume got a 1st print of 2 Million copies, One Piece by that time best volume a 1st print of 2.63 Million copies.
Kind of both, actually. Because even though One Piece already broke it before then, Dragon Ball did have the record after all.
And the anime was popular to casuals who weren't really anime fans (I think Dragon Ball's ratings at its peak is higher than both One Piece and Dragon Ball Super now, as an example) and was really popular.
Although the pre-Strong World manga boost is still intriguing to me, because One Piece was having great arcs for years before then.
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Kind of both, actually. Because even though One Piece already broke it before then, Dragon Ball did have the record after all.
And the anime was popular to casuals who weren't really anime fans (I think Dragon Ball's ratings at its peak is higher than both One Piece and Dragon Ball Super now, as an example) and was really popular.
Although the pre-Strong World manga boost is still intriguing to me, because One Piece was having great arcs for years before then.
The record? Nope, Dragon Ball didn't had it. One Piece took the record from Slam Dunk that had 1st print of 2.5 Million copies.
List of series best 1st print:
! 4.05 Million - One Piece vol. 67
2.75 Million - Attack on Titan 13 (An editor of Kodansha said currently volumes print 3 Million, but it isn't confirmed)
2.50 Million - Slam Dunk vol. 21
2.39 Million - Chibi Maruko-chan vol. 7(Started 2 years after Dragon Ball. Anime is still running with 2nd best TV rankings. Series with the best single TV ranking ever.)
2.37 Million - Be-Bop Highschool vol. 8(started around 1 year before Dragon Ball)
2.30 Million - NANA vol. 14(started after Dragon Ball ended)
2.20 Million - Dr. Slump vol. 6 and Dragon Ball vol. 35(Dr. Slump is the previous and first series from Dragon Ball author, Akira Toriyama)
2.14 Million - Kindaichi Case Files
2.00 Million - Miyuki
2.00 Million - Detective Conan vol. 17
1.90 Million - Crayon Shin-chan vol. 7
1.83 Million - Vagabond vol. 15
1.70 Million - Yu Yu Hakusho vol. 15
1.70 Million - Ping-Pong Club vol. 9
1.62 Million - Naruto vol. 31
…One Piece also always was popular with casuals who weren't really anime fans.
While Dragon Ball 1st airing indeed performed better than One Piece and Dragon Ball Super, you have to see that the number of people watching television at that time was way more than the current one.
In the past doing 10% was average at best, right now only 1 series, Sazae-san, does it frequently. What really matters when comparing past and current series, is the position in the rankings. Dragon Ball at the time was in a fierce competition for the 1st place(against Sazae-san and Chibi-Maruko chan), while One Piece is in competition for the 5th place(against Detective Conan. The top positions, in order are: Sazae-san, Chibi-Maruko chan, Doraemon and Crayon Shin-chan).
One Piece has the disadvantage of the timeslot, that is worse than Dragon Ball at the time(One Piece in the beginning had that same timeslot). Though, One Piece is the anime most seen later, through timeshift options. Also the most recorded anime in satellite(Yep, One Piece also airs in Satellite), and one of the most recorded Terrestrial anime.One Piece was doing amazingly well in manga sales during those arcs as well. One Piece surpassed Slam Dunk, the series with the best 1st print at the time, with volume 24, with a 2.52 Million print, that was released during the airing of Alabasta. All the 3 following volumes broke the previous 1st print record, stopping at 2.63 Million in volume 27.
Here the thread with One Piece print data over the years: http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=42251! 1997, 1st year - 300k copies printed, 1 volume, 300k copies per volume! Note that 300k is the first print of volume 1, because it was released in 24 of December, a second print would be accounted in the next year.
1998, 2nd year - 6 Million copies printed, 6 volumes, 1 Million copies per volume.
1999, 3rd year - 17 Million copies printed, 11 volumes, 1.55 Million copies per volume.
2000, 4th year - 37 Million copies printed, 16 volumes, 2.31 Million copies per volume. An anime boost of 767k copies per volume printed, and this only if we don't account the 2 first months of anime boost in the previous year.
2001, 5th year - 54 Million copies printed, 21 volumes, 2.57 Million copies per volume.
2002, 6th year - 73 Million copies printed, 26 volumes, 2.81 Million copies per volume.
2003, 7th year - 90 Million copies printed, 31 volumes, 2.90 Million copies per volume.
2004, 8th year - 99 Million copies printed, 35 volumes, 2.83 Million copies per volume. First decrease in the average of copies per volume, this represents the year of the end of Skypiea, Davy Back Fight and the beginning of Water 7.
2005, 9th year - 112 Million copies printed, 40 volumes, 2.80 Million copies per volume. Reached 100 Million copies printed in February of 2005 with volume 36. With this One Piece is the fastest title to reach 100 Million copies in print. Dragon Ball was only able to reach 100 Million after its ending and it run for 11 years and with 42 volumes.
2006, 10th year - 125 Million copies printed, 44 volumes, 2.84 Million copies per volume.
2007, 11th year - 139 Million copies printed, 48 volumes, 2.90 Million copies per volume.
2008, 12th year - 153 Million copies printed, 52 volumes, 2.94 Million copies per volume.
2009, 13th year - 177 Million copies printed, 56 volumes, 3.16 Million copies per volume.
2010, 14th year - 216 Million copies printed, 60 volumes, 3.60 Million copies per volume. Reached 200 Million copies printed in November of 2010 with volume 60.
2011, 15th year - 257 Million copies printed, 64 volumes, 4.02 Million copies per volume.
2012, 16th year - 281 Million copies printed, 68 volumes, 4.13 Million copies per volume.
2013, 17th year - 302 Million copies printed, 72 volumes, 4.20 Million copies per volume. Reached 300 Million copies printed in November of 2013 with volume 72. First on only title reaching 300 Million copies printed!
2014, 18th year - 320 Million copies printed, 76 volumes, 4.21 Million copies per volume. -
Woah. This thread suddenly lit on fire. I don't get his complaints about the characters because I feel like he's just repeating the same typical buzzwords (mediocre, one-dimensional, one-note, cardboard cut-out, grimdark etc at this point are really painful to read to me anywhere) over and over without ever explaining (a problem also in all the other popular manga threads that are disliked around here) and thus not supporting his claim very stongly, even then he's right to have that opinion even if I (or someone else) for example doesn't think it's convincing. He's not "wrong" for having it - and everyone's feelings do matter in terms of what they personally think of the series and find in it. There isn't some objective set standard with these things - not in terms of hating or loving. Because people loving a series can be just as shallow. You don't need deeper reasons than "I just think it's good." or "I just think it's bad." just don't go forcing your views on others.
I could write a whole (very long) essay on how much I love Attack On Titan, bring examples of how I think all the characters have grown (some a lot and very obviously), how well (subtly) foreshdowed most of the twists are, how it sets itself apart from other series and it's humanistic themes (plus the body/mind/spirit allegory used to express them), but that doesn't make my opinion anymore legitimate than others. If it's convincing, I'm happy, but if you just don't like a series, that's fine, too. Not everyone also has the time to write at length about a series.
This thread is about sales, anyway, not what everyone actually thinks of the series (though I guess an argument on the quality of these series is to be expected, so I dunno if this is off-topic or not). Maybe take it to the Attack On Titan thread, if you're interested in arguing more? I'm more than happy to because I love the series so much and want to see negative and positive opinions on it outside of "This is the worst thing ever." and "This is the best thing ever."
totally agreed.and i don't want to again derail the thread with discussions about other stuff,but i think i need to let out my thoughts regarding attack on titan.
let's leave the characters aside for a moment.i agree some characters like mikasa could use a bit more development,but i think majority are quite good.
but,as i said,i don't want to get into that.the thing that i think AoT excels at,is showing the brutality of war.i'm not talking about general "world is brutal" theme,which like say the GOT has,but i'm talking about the absolute horror of fighting in a battle,seeing your comrades die before your very eyes,fear erasing the reason why you decided to fight in the first place,but still having to move forward.moving forward while the mountain of corpses gather around you,not having the option to give up,not having the time to mourn for anyone,continuing to aim for victory surrounded by death.
and the fact is,there will always be mistake made by people,but here mistakes cost lives.but in the end,no matter how many mistakes you make,you have to keep moving on.it shows what war actually is,which is just the minimisation of losses.losses are confirmed,they are a fact,but still you have to keep fighting.
tldr; i think it does a stellar job at showcasing war,and that's one of the reasons i like it. -
Seeing Prison School in the top 10 makes me happy.
Yup, me too :)
The Japanese really do love it :)