Chapter 793: The Tiger and The Dog
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If the citizen had owed the WG their life, they wouldn't possibly think of opposing them. It's that simple. That would be the most ungrateful thing in the world.
A pirate had to take the credit.
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@Go:
And why, exactly, would kings at Reverie react negatively to Fuji acting proactively against Doflamingo? And why are they bound to react more positevely to him not doint so?
I disagree about marines having no real power to change anything. If that was true, A) Aokiji would not have fought against Akainu for Fleet Admiral position, because it would have been meaningless, B) It stands directly contrary to the manga, where it has been stressed multiple times that Admirals have great responsibility and influence on matters of goverment.
The WG\marines would cover up the events and warlord system would have gone on working just like what happen in alabasta .
Also where was it showed that the admirals or the marines influence matters in the government .
They always took orders from the gorosei and this chapter alone shows you that also.The best way for change is for people to get angry at WG .
But most of the time they come out looking like the good guys , non corrupt and competent not this time. -
I tink that the shadow is just Kaido's fortress-ship, and I'd like to think that is the same shadow that appeared in the florian triangle.
Also I hope Oda don't go with the classic route and let the Kids alliance win right away, I really want to see Shanks kick some ass before he gets defeated
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Honestly, it was so obviously a joke (Even without looking at the picture) that I feel like you really only have yourself to blame if you believed there could actually be another spoiler right after a chapter was just leaked and scanlated
It's not that i didn't get the joke it's how bad the picture is…
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@Go:
One thing I am not entirely sure about: All Fujitora did was to bow down and apologise for it being goverment fault. I don't exactly see how him dealing actively with the problem would have jeopardise that; if anything, his standing amongst marines would be stronger, and he would be in better position to influence the future of the system, wouldn't he?
With what we know now, it does not seem like his inaction was entirely necessary… was it?
It's less about reason, and more about honor, I suppose. He did say he felt unworthy to take on Doula.
Honor is not exactly logical, but it ended up "benefitting" him in a way.
Alternatively, he is making up an excuse.
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@Go:
And why, exactly, would kings at Reverie react negatively to Fuji acting proactively against Doflamingo? And why are they bound to react more positevely to him not doint so?
I disagree about marines having no real power to change anything. If that was true, A) Aokiji would not have fought against Akainu for Fleet Admiral position, because it would have been meaningless, B) It stands directly contrary to the manga, where it has been stressed multiple times that Admirals have great responsibility and influence on matters of goverment.
It's not about Fuji; it's about the Shichibukai system. Fujitora wants to engineer a situation where the world leaders decide to abolish it. Remember that the system exists largely for the WG to look better. If 7 very powerful pirates are on the WG's side, it makes them look better, more powerful. It gives them credibility. But as we know in practice that's not the case at all. If Fujitora exposes the broken system for all to see, and makes sure the WG can't cover it up, the system will quickly start to become more trouble than it's worth. It will start making the WG look bad when everyone realizes their Shichibukai are out of control, don't actually help the WG and cause more harm than good. And then it will be disbanded. That's the goal.
So if he acted against Doflamingo himself what would have happened is that the WG could simply say "The system isn't broken, it worked as intended: a Shichibukai went rogue and our Admirals stopped him". The same way they said after Arabasta that Smoker was the one who stopped Crocodile. Now they can't say that because Fujitora revealed to the entire world that it wasn't him that stopped Doflamingo, it was other pirates, while Fuji was forbidden by his superiors to act. It's true that he could have took it upon his own conscience to act anyway, but then he would have weakened his own argument. His abolition argument becomes stronger if he didn't act, which is why he decided to bet that Luffy would succeed.
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A 3 vs 1 battle of shanks could be potentially epic.
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Doflamingo now is a problem to the WG and to the marine. On top of their bad relationship, now the marine gets him, and his illegal business has being exposed; but the WG wanted to protect him, and hardly will allow to have him in jailed… So, what's next?
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Not sure how far this Shanks thing is going to go.
At the moment, I don't see those guys being a serious threat, but if their advance coincidies with other stuff, like Shanks' alliance getting weakened by whatever BB is doing ot Marine advances, who knows.
However, since pirate alliances often bring the risk of betrayal, like we were told even in this manga, their alliance might break off before they even do anything big.
I like how Oda put in a red herring with the news of Kidd sinking 2 of Big Mom's ships. Was it just to fool the readers?
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I wonder which pirate crew Tsuru and Garp(?) are following.
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I wonder if we'll get to see Yasopp's reaction to his son earning the title "God". Wait, do we know if he knows that Usopp is part of the Straw hats?
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I wonder which pirate crew Tsuru and Garp(?) are following.
I'd assume it's Sengoku, since the "Inspector" title is dropped, which Sengoku received over the timeskip.
But then again, the speech pattern looks like Garp. I'll still bet on Sengoku though unless we get confirmation otherwise.
Anyways, the pirate crew they're talking about is the Donquixote Crew. Tsuru was shown to be pursing them in the Corazon flashback, and that's what's being referenced.
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What an interesting chapter, full of talk and informative!
I laughed at Kidd and co trying to get Shanks head, i can't wait to see their butt kicked to the ground!!!
Also Kaido silhouette makes him look really huge, is it a fake? is he really that big? Big mom is also big, Shanks do look like a fly next to the 3 others Kaidou (still counting whitebeard)
And that news about Kuzan joining blackbeard, can't believe he did….
And will Fujitora will fight or just give up on being a marine?
can't wait next chapter now! -
In the flashback of Corazon, Law and Donflamingo, it's Sengoku who sent Tsuru after DD's crew.
So i think it's him on the ship with Tsuru, and Garp his with Kobby & Hermepp. -
I think we got a bit of Sakazuki characterization here, which is interesting. It seems he doesn't have very good control over the Marines, and he's losing his cool over the fact. I also think there's a possibility he was protecting Kuzan, in a way, when he was saying "idgaf what Kuzan is doing not the Marines' problem". He did say his and Kuzan's battle was a fight to the death, but ended letting him live. Could be some sort of respect thing, could be he literally doesn't care what Kuzan's doing. I like that we may be getting some insight into the Marine higher-ups here, I hope Oda does more.
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Capone Bege with Big Mom !?
Sanji is in good shape, or in bad shape ? -
I wonder if we'll get to see Yasopp's reaction to his son earning the title "God". Wait, do we know if he knows that Usopp is part of the Straw hats?
Do we even know if the marines know that Usopp is a part of the Strawhats? If so, what will happen to Sogekings bounty?
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@LordEnel:
That makes no sense, first of all doflamingos crew location is well know, because ehm, he is the king of a country, so you can be damn sure you can find him there.
Tsuru and Garp have no authority to attack or do anything to Doflamingo.
And it's been what? 20 years, you think she couldn't have found him in 20 years?
yeah lolThat was Sengoku talking to Tsuru, first of all.
Now, he didn't mean she's been chasing him all those years until now. He meant she was chasing him (on Sengoku's behalf) in the past, as we have seen in Law's flashback. It really isn't that complicated, even with Mangapanada's shit translation.
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Well, to me the shadow looks like a big living thing. Even if it's Kaidou it might be just a minor but useful form for whatever he's doing, similar to Chopper's ability. It could also be anything else ranging from a cute pet of his, a native monster he's fighting, or just a shadow of a logia ability, like Enel's Amaru.
Was anyone else reminded of Chopper's scene in Alabasta when Bonney sneaks away?
And doesn't the mark on the sail on page 9 look quite similar to the Black Cat Pirates. There seems to a sword included but the skull does look like a cat. The figurehead is different, too, though. -
The person with Tsuru is eating Okaki. It was the code name used by Cora and Sengoku. So it is probably Sengoku.
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@Galaxy:
I'd assume it's Sengoku, since the "Inspector" title is dropped, which Sengoku received over the timeskip.
But then again, the speech pattern looks like Garp. I'll still bet on Sengoku though unless we get confirmation otherwise.
Anyways, the pirate crew they're talking about is the Donquixote Crew. Tsuru was shown to be pursing them in the Corazon flashback, and that's what's being referenced.
To me it seems the dialogue is heavily implying it's Sengoku. Especially the part where the inspector says Tsuru has been chasing Dofla crew for quite some time and Tsuru claiming it was on inspector's orders. And we know Sengoku was in charge at the time.
As to why he's eating snacks like Garp, no idea…
Maybe he's a lot more relaxed now when he doesn't carry the weight of world's problems on his shoulders?
Thinking about it, I wouldn't mind seeing Sengoku meet Luffy.
The person with Tsuru is eating Okaki. It was the code name used by Cora and Sengoku. So it is probably Sengoku.
Oh, that too. Never would have remembered it.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but is this Kaidou's jolly roger? Looks like two huge horns on either side.
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This post is deleted!
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@Galaxy:
I'd assume it's Sengoku, since the "Inspector" title is dropped, which Sengoku received over the timeskip.
But then again, the speech pattern looks like Garp. I'll still bet on Sengoku though unless we get confirmation otherwise.
Anyways, the pirate crew they're talking about is the Donquixote Crew. Tsuru was shown to be pursing them in the Corazon flashback, and that's what's being referenced.
So that means they are at Dressrosa right now? I think it is Garp with him munching on snacks like Garp always does and his way of speaking like you mentioned.
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Shanks with no arms vs Kidd, Hawkins, Apoo. Who wins?
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D'awww Tashigi and Smoker's lil' relationship :3
Excellent chapter, 9.5/10. Not to say that there was a flaw, that's just where I'd rank it among OP's chapters.
So, finally, after some frustration during the weekly read of the arc, we have the payoff. Fujitora is standing up against the towering, daunting rule of Akainu and the World Government by kneeling down. It was definitely foggy to a lot of people during the arc why Fuji just "stood around" (though he demonstrably did damage control like some people have pointed out), now we have that tied off satisfyingly. This is a big deal, because Oda has had some trouble with payoffs as of late, so I was worried that Fujitora's end-game for this would be flimsy.
You need some gambling to go against something as impenetrable as Akainu's new regime and the stubborn ways of the government.
Akainu is missing part of his ear. lol.
I personally would shit my pants if Akainu was there barking at me like he was at the Five Elder Stars, dude is extreme. That glint of deadly anger in his eyes, the fuming cigar he bites down on while yelling, the sizable scar occupying his neck and face.
The dialogue in this chapter was A+, even if done by mangastream, maybe not entirely accurate but I liked the way they worded a lot of things. "Insolent words will not be tolerated, Sakazuki." "The value of your 'face' is slightly less than zero."
This chapter just flows perfectly, seriously, I've already re-read it three times. The quivering "Again…" followed by grim reactions all around after they discover that Straw Hat is going wild on their carefully maintained system again.
One of Oda's main traits that makes One Piece so robust and thick with detail is his thoroughness. I love that he's showing all the dealing prospects that went to shit.
Always nice to see a new shadowy portrait of Shanks.
I'll stop here, but best line of the chapter is easily: "If our credibility has been so compromised by the admission of a single mistake, it never existed in the first place!"
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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but is this Kaidou's jolly roger? Looks like two huge horns on either side.
The mark on the bottom right frame of this page on the guy who shouts Kaidou-sama is also interesting.
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A pretty awesome chapter.
Fuji can be happy Riku is such an understanding person. He just told him his country was destroyed because he decided he wouldn't do his job.
Akainu is rocking that cigar. I'm sad Darth isn't around to comment for such an occasion.
I like the talk between the Gorosei and Akainu. The gores seems to not take him seriously and Akainu doesn't seems content with them not respecting his statue. They shouldn't forget how much of a mad dog Akainu is.
I wonder what help Aokiji provides to Blackbeard. But like Akainu said Kuzan's business isn't really his.
Urouge is an really sorry state. I wonder what happened to him. The visitor may be Enel like proposed by other. but since it's a solitary island maybe some of the prelats will appear too.
Capone is after Ceasar? I hope that doesn't end up with Sanji looking again… Anyway I can't say I've ever been interested in Capone so let's if that can change.
Sadly the alliance is after Shanks. I can't say their mission interest me now as they aren't going to accomplish much if anything at all. At least their party seems cool.
So is Tsuru coming to Dressrosa? Seems like it from the discussion. Now I wonder who is with her? A super relaxed Sengoku or both Sengoku and Garp.
Issho really got balls to talk like that to Akainu. I can at least appreciate that he doesn't cower in fear when confronted by his superior. Really liked how the discussion go.
Nope Akainu I'm pretty sure that couldn't have been covered up from the Fuji has been acting and the number of people who saw Luffy triumph while Fuji was pushing a cage.
So did Issho said fuck the marine or is he the new Smoker(that would be weird considering his opinion of Luffy and his goal)?
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I don't understand why people think Fujitora will let Doffy slaughter the whole country, it was not as if he was sleeping and had no idea what was going on.
He made a gamble that he knew was going to pay off -> Luffy beating Doffy showing the failure of the Shichibukai system -> country saved.
Even if Luffy/Law failed, all he had to do was go in and take down a near dead Doffy -> caught 2 Shichibukais and Luffy -> country saved.I never understood how exactly does Luffy beating Doflamingo show the failure of the Shichibukai, to be quite frank. Isn't it the same regardless of who beats him?
Also, if that is so, why didn't he go after him when Luffy seemingly did fail, after Gear Fourth drained him? This does not add up.
Fujitora is doing the exact opposite of perpetuating: he's forcing a change, radically. The fault in your analogy is that the error was accidental, and the people in charge of the system would try to make sure it never happened again. The World Government know very well that their Shichibukai are often cruel, ruthless pirates. They've seen Crocodile trying to take over an entire country (a nation of descendants from the original 20 kings and hiding place of Pluton, no less) causing a civil war involving millions, and they did nothing to change the system after that. They shrugged their shoulders and covered it up with a convenient excuse. They prioritized keeping the "balance of the three great powers" that the Shichibukai are a part of in place over making sure a pirate could never again use his Shichibukai immunity to threaten and harm innocent people. Fujitora thinks the latter should be more important than the former. But he knows the WG will never change if they can keep covering up the Shichibukai's crimes and making excuses. So he used the circumstances on Dressrosa to engineer a situation that reveals the harm the Shichibukai system causes in a way that makes it impossible for the WG to cover it up, which he hopes will cause the world leaders in the Reverie to push for its abolition.
Hmm… Agreed on the analogy being somewhat faulty. But would you argue then that if the act was intentional (example: corrupt judge set the perp free), it would be morally justifiable for not law enforcers to not stop him, and instead allow vigilantee justice, possibly lynch, take care of it?
More so, Alabasta brings an interesting point: Why not simply convince King Cobra to come forth with his version of events at Reverie? That seems like a much more safer option than gambling with Doflamingo. And we just established this chapter that Fuji knows about how things turned out there.
And lastly, why exactly is it necessary to gamble at all? I mean, Fujitora can still come forth with his apology and statement if he acted against Doflamingo directly. It would also appear to be much more convincing from military stand point, as it shows that Marines can actually take on one of the Shichibukai and win. At this point, another Shichibukai could take over a country, and, in the eyes of the Reverie Leaders, how exactly would abolition of the system help the matter? The only thing it gives them is protection from marines, who, as shown with Dressrosa and Alabasta, in their eyes, cannot deal with them directly anyways. The only thing that changes is that given Shichibukai won't have to bother with having even pretending to be law abiding, and they could abuse their citizens directly.
Fujitora didn't necessarily gamble as much as you think either. He may have risked the life of some people, but not everyone. He would have gone after Doflamingo himself if Luffy and Law failed and then Doflamingo would have fallen, saving the country. It's definitely a gamble with some lives, yes, but he did what he could to keep people safe without directly interfering and was ready to enter himself in case it went wrong. We're not supposed to think he's pure sunshine and rainbows. He's a risk-taker who knows that to win big you have to bet big, but with his heart in the right place.
Does he now? You will notice he does not consider going after him at any point. He makes a deliberate show out of it for his men. Argument that he would go after him himself is pretty weak, in my humble opinion, when he does not even mention the possibility at any point.
I mean, not even Birdcage being seconds away from slicing poor silly Dressorans to bits gives him a pause and even then, he still relies on Luffy, though he has no way of knowing that he will come through in time. I don't think we can say he actually considered saving Dressrosa himself, based on what we see in the manga.
If the citizen had owed the WG their life, they wouldn't possibly think of opposing them. It's that simple. That would be the most ungrateful thing in the world.
A pirate had to take the credit.That would be a pretty good argument… if the citizens had any way to influence WG decisions.
The WG\marines would cover up the events and warlord system would have gone on working just like what happen in alabasta .
Would it? I mean, you are placing a massive importance on the matter of Fujitora not acting being necessary, but it does not look like that to me. What stops him from revealing what happened to the world after he beats up Flamingo? Not like there is anybody to stop him from doing that.
Also where was it showed that the admirals or the marines influence matters in the government .
You know, Kid wasn't shown murdering civilians on panel, but we know it did happen.
This very chapter has importance of that influence flat out stated by Akainu.
Jimbei attributes raise in strength of the marines to Sakazuki, and not upper goverment echelons.
I'm sure there are more that I am forgetting right now.
They always took orders from the gorosei and this chapter alone shows you that also.
This chapter shows Sakazuki talking back to Gorosei, who are not punishing him in any way, and him casually dismissing their accusations. Also, one can hold an important political position and hold a significant amount of political power, while having a superior. Example: Ministers.
The best way for change is for people to get angry at WG .
If that was the case, the Reverie would not be needed for it. So the best way for change is actually convincing ruling head that make the decisions, not largely inconsequential "people".
But most of the time they come out looking like the good guys , non corrupt and competent not this time.
And making them look non-compent is, in your eyes, the best way to ensure everybody will want to leave the matter of desolving and hunting down organisation of powerful pirates in their hands?
It's less about reason, and more about honor, I suppose. He did say he felt unworthy.
Honor is not exactly logical, but it ended up "benefitting" him in a way.
Did it? He didn't get the credit, but now he must hunt down people that helped him to achieve it. If anything, it bite him in the ass.
It's all about presentation. Oda does not present Fujitora as unreasonable guy with heart in the right place, he is clearly presented to us as morally superior in this situation. And this, in my opinion, makes his argumentation come off as somewhat weak.
Alternatively, he is making up an excuse.
The thought crossed my mind, but then, it does not make sense in context of his conversation with Sakazuki. Or maybe he is really inept at conversations and that's the best he could came up with. That is also a possibility.
It's not about Fuji; it's about the Shichibukai system. Fujitora wants to engineer a situation where the world leaders decide to abolish it. Remember that the system exists largely for the WG to look better. If 7 very powerful pirates are on the WG's side, it makes them look better, more powerful. It gives them credibility. But as we know in practice that's not the case at all. If Fujitora exposes the broken system for all to see, and makes sure the WG can't cover it up, the system will quickly start to become more trouble than it's worth. It will start making the WG look bad when everyone realizes their Shichibukai are out of control, don't actually help the WG and cause more harm than good. And then it will be disbanded. That's the goal.
But what Fujitora exposes is not that the system is broken, but that marines are. All WG needs to do is go "We have performed extensive investigation following Dressrosa using CP. The rest of Shichibukai are clean and abiding the terms of agreement."
You don't abolish the law just because someone is not following it. Not like Fujitora can prove that Shichibukai as a whole are out of control using one Doflamingo. System compromises of several pirates, most of vastly different backgrounds and personality, and none with Doflamingo means.
And even if everybody buys that, again, the above mentioned flaw in that plan manifests itself: if marines are not competent enough to deal with one Flamingo, how exactly will the hunt down abolished Shichibukai?
So if he acted against Doflamingo himself what would have happened is that the WG could simply say "The system isn't broken, it worked as intended: a Shichibukai went rogue and our Admirals stopped him". The same way they said after Arabasta that Smoker was the one who stopped Crocodile. Now they can't say that because Fujitora revealed to the entire world that it wasn't him that stopped Doflamingo, it was other pirates, while Fuji was forbidden by his superiors to act. It's true that he could have took it upon his own conscience to act anyway, but then he would have weakened his own argument. His abolition argument becomes stronger if he didn't act, which is why he decided to bet that Luffy would succeed.
Important: Fujitora does not reveal he was forbidden to act. Because that would be a lie, and easily discovered one at that.
I'm also unsure what exactly stops WG from going "System works, it's our man at the scene who screwed up, and now he is trying to shift the blame on us".
I have explained why his abolition argument becomes weaker by his inaction above.
In reality, I agree that the way most of you mention is probably the way it's going to go down in the manga. Does not change the fact that it bothering me. Slightly.
Can we please discuss something less controversial? Like the possibility of Urouge/Enel team up that will take the world by storm?
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A pretty awesome chapter.
Fuji can be happy Riku is such an understanding person. He just told him his country was destroyed because he decided he wouldn't do his job.
Akainu is rocking that cigar. I'm sad Darth isn't around to comment for such an occasion.
I like the talk between the Gorosei and Akainu. The gores seems to not take him seriously and Akainu doesn't seems content with them not respecting his statue. They shouldn't forget how much of a mad dog Akainu is.
I wonder what help Aokiji provides to Blackbeard. But like Akainu said Kuzan's business isn't really his.
Urouge is an really sorry state. I wonder what happened to him. The visitor may be Enel like proposed by other. but since it's a solitary island maybe some of the prelats will appear too.
Capone is after Ceasar? I hope that doesn't end up with Sanji looking again… Anyway I can't say I've ever been interested in Capone so let's if that can change.
Sadly the alliance is after Shanks. I can't say their mission interest me now as they aren't going to accomplish much if anything at all. At least their party seems cool.
So is Tsuru coming to Dressrosa? Seems like it from the discussion. Now I wonder who is with her? A super relaxed Sengoku or both Sengoku and Garp.
Issho really got balls to talk like that to Akainu. I can at least appreciate that he doesn't cower in fear when confronted by his superior. Really liked how the discussion go.
Nope Akainu I'm pretty sure that couldn't have been covered up from the Fuji has been acting and the number of people who saw Luffy triumph while Fuji was pushing a cage.
So did Issho said fuck the marine or is he the new Smoker(that would be weird considering his opinion of Luffy and his goal)?
pretty much sound like he said fuck the marines but i doubt he'll become like smoker.
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AOKIJI JOINED BB?! WTFFFF?!!!!!! This goes against everything we know about him.
And apparently Kaidou is a Giant….which is interesting.
Also, Kidd must be fucking nuts going after Shanks. By my estimation Shanks is likely the strongest pirate in the NW currently. Even 3 supernova teamed up cant mess with him. They'll get destroyed.
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@Go:
That would be a pretty good argument… if the citizens had any way to influence WG decisions.
It's not an argument. It's a fact. This is what happened in the manga.
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It's not an argument. It's a fact. This is what happened in the manga.
You are a lot more certain of that than I am, I can tell that for a fact…
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, before I forget.
Sakazuki!
Oh, how I missed the old magma bastard. And his dialogue is well written too. And his conversation with Fuji? Awesome. It's the best.Did I say that already…? Well, it bears repeating anyways.
It's moments like that. This is what reminds me why I love this series still.
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@Go:
Important: Fujitora does not reveal he was forbidden to act. Because that would be a lie, and easily discovered one at that.
I'm also unsure what exactly stops WG from going "System works, it's our man at the scene who screwed up, and now he is trying to shift the blame on us".
It's not about Fujitora being forbidden to act, but him and the marines by extension having the right to allow a shichibukai to rampage and pretty much do what he wants. Fujitora has not done anything against the rules.
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@Go:
You are a lot more certain of that than I am, I can tell that for a fact…
Yeah sorry, I sounded like a douche that's for sure. But the story is still that simple. You are making One Piece way too complicated.
Everything is simple.Besides I only saw those emoticons once in the forum. The Japanese sign I posted earlier meant "welcome back". Looks like I nailed it.
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@Rotten:
AOKIJI JOINED BB?! WTFFFF?!!!!!! This goes against everything we know about him.
And apparently Kaidou is a Giant….which is interesting.
Also, Kidd must be fucking nuts going after Shanks. By my estimation Shanks is likely the strongest pirate in the NW currently. Even 3 supernova teamed up cant mess with him. They'll get destroyed.
Lets apply logic. If Kaidou is a GIANT why they scream where is he? Really is not hard to see. The other thing is: LOOK AT THE TREES NEXT TO HIM. THEY ARE BONSAIS. Bonsais are the smallest trees around and he is that size.
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Yeah sorry, I sounded like a douche that's for sure. But the story is still that simple. You are making One Piece way too complicated.
Everything is simple.Hey, something for something. Believe me, my incredible ability to overanalise stuff has made some arcs far more enjoyable for me. Or some characters. Like Sakazuki, for example.
You win some, you lose some.
It's not about Fujitora being forbidden to act, but him and the marines by extension having the right to allow a shichibukai to rampage and pretty much do what he wants. Fujitora has not done anything against the rules.
That is true, but I was simply correcting the facts. Fujitora did not reveal he was forbidden by his superior to act, which is what Coruscation claimed. If he was, that would be quite a different story.
Unless, of course, I have missed something massive, or the translation is misleading. Then, I apologise.
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@Go:
Hmm… Agreed on the analogy being somewhat faulty. But would you argue then that if the act was intentional (example: corrupt judge set the perp free), it would be morally justifiable for not law enforcers to not stop him, and instead allow vigilantee justice, possibly lynch, take care of it?
No, because that's not systemic. It's still an isolated incident of corruption. It's nothing like the entire upper echelon of government knowing full well that their system is morally abhorrent yet continuing to run it and intentionally covering up the incidents it causes, not caring about the damage to the people they're claiming to protect.
More so, Alabasta brings an interesting point: Why not simply convince King Cobra to come forth with his version of events at Reverie? That seems like a much more safer option than gambling with Doflamingo. And we just established this chapter that Fuji knows about how things turned out there.
Impossible. They already covered it up, it's years past. It would probably just cause the WG to discredit Cobra and wouldn't be a convincing argument at all.
Does he now? You will notice he does not consider going after him at any point. He makes a deliberate show out of it for his men. Argument that he would go after him himself is pretty weak, in my humble opinion, when he does not even mention the possibility at any point.
I mean, not even Birdcage being seconds away from slicing poor silly Dressorans to bits gives him a pause and even then, he still relies on Luffy, though he has no way of knowing that he will come through in time. I don't think we can say he actually considered saving Dressrosa himself, based on what we see in the manga.
He said to King Riku:
"I will not let Dressrosa to go to war." What do you think he was going to do? Sit down and get sliced by the Birdcage? Wait until every civilian had died and then interere? Neither option makes any sense at all, I'm sure you can see.
And lastly, why exactly is it necessary to gamble at all? I mean, Fujitora can still come forth with his apology and statement if he acted against Doflamingo directly. It would also appear to be much more convincing from military stand point, as it shows that Marines can actually take on one of the Shichibukai and win. At this point, another Shichibukai could take over a country, and, in the eyes of the Reverie Leaders, how exactly would abolition of the system help the matter? The only thing it gives them is protection from marines, who, as shown with Dressrosa and Alabasta, in their eyes, cannot deal with them directly anyways. The only thing that changes is that given Shichibukai won't have to bother with having even pretending to be law abiding, and they could abuse their citizens directly.
A regular pirate can never become a king. If a pirate becomes the king of a country he will be hunted down and overthrown by the WG. The only thing that allowed Crocodile (had he succeeded) and Doflamingo to do this is the protection they had from the Shichibukai system. Their piracy was made lawful and thus their ruling a nation became lawful. Without a Shichibukai system this could never happen. Yes, if the pirate is so powerful the WG actually can't defeat them - like with the Yonkou - then they could do it, but that's a whole other category of problem. Doflamingo could have been chased off of Dressrosa any time if he wasn't a Shichibukai. It's the fact that he was a Shichibukai that allowed him to keep up his vile reign for 10 years.
But what Fujitora exposes is not that the system is broken, but that marines are. All WG needs to do is go "We have performed extensive investigation following Dressrosa using CP. The rest of Shichibukai are clean and abiding the terms of agreement."
No it's not. If the system allows a horrendous cruel pirate to rule a country for 10 years, under WG immunity, that's a horribly broken system. And it did allow that. It's because the Shichibukai system existed that Doflamingo was able to do this. Otherwise he would've been chased out of Dressrosa as it was said in this very arc he would be if he lost his Shichibukai title.
And even if everybody buys that, again, the above mentioned flaw in that plan manifests itself: if marines are not competent enough to deal with one Flamingo, how exactly will the hunt down abolished Shichibukai?
The abolished Shichibukai just become normal pirates. They are hunted by the Marines like any other pirates. The Marines couldn't go against Doflamingo because Fujitora was forbidden to act. The Marines can't hunt down every pirate in the world, but the point is that the Shichibukai would no longer be sanctioned by the WG, their vile acts no longer enabled.
Important: Fujitora does not reveal he was forbidden to act. Because that would be a lie, and easily discovered one at that.
It's not a lie. The last words he was left with from Akainu, his superior, was that Doflamingo didn't quit the Shichibukai at all. A Marine can't attack a Shichibukai. He could have taken it upon himself and would likely have been forgiven and even commended for it, but he didn't inherently have that authority. He couldn't contact Akainu because of Birdcage blocking communications. It's a neat excuse. I never claimed that he said that already, I said that it's how it is. The last thing Fuji heard was: don't go after Doflamingo. Bastille was saying the same thing: they can't go after Doflamingo. That was the orders the Marines at Dressrosa had at the time.
I'm also unsure what exactly stops WG from going "System works, it's our man at the scene who screwed up, and now he is trying to shift the blame on us".
The fact that Fujitora is an Admiral is what stops that. This is exactly why he said that now that he's Admiral he wants to try and abolish the Shichibukai system. An Admiral isn't just any old "man at the scene" as you put it. The Admirals are the highest and most important symbols of the World Goverment's power. Their words and actions carry so much weight they're impossible to ignore or dismiss. An Admiral came out and bowed his head and apologized for Doflamingo's terror, stating that it was the WG itself that allowed this. You need to realize how much weight this carries in the OP world. No one can dismiss or excuse it, it's already spreading like a wildfire. In a lower rank he would never have been able to do what he did, just like you see Smoker commenting on in this chapter. But because he's an Admiral he has the power to actually bring forth change, not only through formal authority but through the informal weight of the position.
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Lets apply logic. If Kaidou is a GIANT why they scream where is he? Really is not hard to see. The other thing is: LOOK AT THE TREES NEXT TO HIM. THEY ARE BONSAIS. Bonsais are the smallest trees around and he is that size.
For us he's easy to see, as Oda is putting the focus on the silhouette. It seems to be very foggy, so it's not out of the question that they don't see him right away.
As for his size, his horns seem to be piercing the clouds, so he seems to big.
We'll see, I guess.
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Hey, did anyone catch the fact that one kingdom had to surrender because of what happened in Dressrosa. It does show that again there are good and bad consequences due to the heroes actions. I kind of like that because it shows that even though the heroes might have saved the day it doesn't mean everything will be honkey dory for someone else who had to rely on the villain's ability to supply them. It does show how gray the One Piece world really is.
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@Go:
You know, Kid wasn't shown murdering civilians on panel, but we know it did happen.
This very chapter has importance of that influence flat out stated by Akainu.
Jimbei attributes raise in strength of the marines to Sakazuki, and not upper goverment echelons.
I'm sure there are more that I am forgetting right now.
This eg make no sense .
Also Jinbei said the WG gave Akainu power to make the marines stronger and that is what happen.
The marines have no power over things that happen in the government , they are a military force.
So we just going to go around in circles so this debate is useless . -
Hey, did anyone catch the fact that one kingdom had to surrender because of what happened in Dressrosa. It does show that again there are good and bad consequences due to the heroes actions. I kind of like that because it shows that even though the heroes might have saved the day it doesn't mean everything will be honkey dory for someone else who had to rely on the villain's ability to supply them. It does show how gray the One Piece world really is.
Who says the king and his army were in the right? =P
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I did this one a little differently than usual, but have long wanted to do one that focuses mostly on the differences between Mangastream and Mangapanda. But who better to help with such a sophisticated Abridged than Beavis & Butthead?
One Piece Abridged: Mangapanda Edition – Chapter 793
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Other Abridges – http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=41814
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How cool would it be if that were Kaido's steed?
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Who says the king and his army were in the right? =P
In the One Piece world, things are more complicated than they appear. This isn't Naruto where global consequences are brushed over as a side event but it does show that the actions of the heroes do change the world in a radical way. Unlike again with Naruto where the heroes don't try to change anything and just become champions of a corrupt system that have screwed people over.
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It seems there are no news about JACK in the chapter… :sly:
Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2
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Hey guys, first post. Been in here for a couple of years, but never wrote anything. There's just one thing bothering me, maybe you are forgetting with all these things happening with Big Mom, Yonkous and so on. There is one character called Lola and that vivre card that she gave to StrawHats..Don't you think, that all this mess with Big Mom being an enemy might turn out to be an ally? I mean, she looks like 'mom's jolly with those lips. And her mother is in New World. Just something that I wanted to say :)
Awesome chapter btw. -
Hey guys, first post. Been in here for a couple of years, but never wrote anything. There's just one thing bothering me, maybe you are forgetting with all these things happening with Big Mom, Yonkous and so on. There is one character called Lola and that vivre card that she gave to StrawHats..Don't you think, that all this mess with Big Mom being an enemy might turn out to be an ally? I mean, she looks like 'mom's jolly with those lips. And her mother is in New World. Just something that I wanted to say :)
Awesome chapter btw.I was thinking this too! Hopefuly they're on big moms ship eating sweets and having a party.
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Don't know why people keep thinking of the easy way out. Sanji and co beat up her crewmates, might take out her ally in capone. There will be fireworks. Capone might not even be talking about luffy and law as he has no newspaper like urouge, these two might not have even gotten that piece of news. Since he is on the ship of big mom might have been informed about sanji and co actions, and sacastically mention that they did well for themselves.
Sengoku is the general inspector, he will investigate the matter at dressorosa, it makes sense that he is heading there. It was he not garp who gave orders about doflamingo. In fact he tried to keep matters secret fom garp. Is it unusuall to eat crackers. He would normally take garps like that impel down scene with luffy? When garp went thats my grandson.Kid and hawkins and apoo and kid has even better chances of winning than luffy law and zoro. Hawkins see's the future, knows when to fight, that should make us nervous about shanks. People use kizaru, reation to ben beckman like he is not a known troll. Did'nt he try killing luffy, law shlrtly after, along with kuzan? Kaido and big mom will react soon. Plus if blackbeard's burgess is arrested, it will only be that much more interesting.
