In retrospect, the argument that GT was bad because Toriyama's only input was character designs is looking more and more spurious.
Dragonball Discussion
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In retrospect, the argument that GT was bad because Toriyama's only input was character designs is looking more and more spurious.
Well the character designs themselves were bad; methinks the truth should've been obvious there.
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In retrospect, the argument that GT was bad because Toriyama's only input was character designs is looking more and more spurious.
Nope didn't go look spurious up in a dictionary to figure out what it means, nope no way no how.:whistling:
Though seriously GT's designs were…...not too good especially SSJ4 Red fur, bulging pecs, red eye-liner, & unkempt hair?
Yikes.
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So is this the first time Roshi has contributed to a fight since…. the first Broly movie? (it's been so long i'm not even sure)
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@Cyan:
Well the character designs themselves were bad; methinks the truth should've been obvious there.
Most of the GT character designs that people credit Toriyama for weren't even his, like SSJ4.
In fact, i'm not sure whether he actually designed anything himself. The anime's character designer Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru was behind pretty much everything, including the aforementioned SSJ 4.
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SS4 was actually a pretty decent idea. Regaining the tails, the fur, the black hair, that was all good. It hearkened to the idea of "this is what Saiyans actually do, the blonde stuff is something else entirely, and pure Saiyan power is crazy." It worked in concept.
The pop out pecks and eyeliner, less so.
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Most of the GT character designs that people credit Toriyama for weren't even his, like SSJ4.
In fact, i'm not sure whether he actually designed anything himself. The anime's character designer Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru was behind pretty much everything, including the aforementioned SSJ 4.
I thought he designed Pan and goku's new look and that was it
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I love Trunks clothes in GT.
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Honestly, the concept of the evil sheng long was the best final boss candidate since Frezzer. And while Goku (and somewhat Vegeta) were inocent of the tfuru massacre, Baby had a somewhat valid motivation.
But then they were designed like a piece of shit, and had the worst case of "everyone but Goku is useless" ever.
At least before they tried, with the dragons they all were "nah, we are all yamcha level now, we won't try to stop the apocalypse". It didn't help that 3 of the dragons were a joke, and one only lasted as long because they couldn't kill him without kiling pan.
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I thought he designed Pan and goku's new look and that was it
This link informs about Toriyama contributions to the anime, including DBGT at the end: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/
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Man most of you act like this movie is Dragon Ball Evolution level of bad.
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Man most of you act like this movie is Dragon Ball Evolution level of bad.
Well, it's not far off honestly.
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If this is canon, which it is, Mr Satan dies for the first time in the series. Is he in the film at all?
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Man most of you act like this movie is Dragon Ball Evolution level of bad.
Well it's not an adaptation so….
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If this is canon, which it is, Mr Satan dies for the first time in the series.
Aaaaaaaaaaand film is now stricken from canon.
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SS4 was actually a pretty decent idea. Regaining the tails, the fur, the black hair, that was all good. It hearkened to the idea of "this is what Saiyans actually do, the blonde stuff is something else entirely, and pure Saiyan power is crazy." It worked in concept.
The pop out pecks and eyeliner, less so.
I dunno, I personally thought SS4 looked extremely ridiculous. I guess it doesn't help it invited all of those fan artists to make SS5 and up imaginations, where the hair color turns silver/orange/whatever and the hair just gets longer.
I wonder if it was intentional to make Goku go through struggle and his friends being seriously injured and/or killed around him to get to that point and just have Vegeta get there with significantly less difficulty. Much like the original Super Saiyan form.
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I dunno, I personally thought SS4 looked extremely ridiculous. I guess it doesn't help it invited all of those fan artists to make SS5 and up imaginations, where the hair color turns silver/orange/whatever and the hair just gets longer.
Although it may have acted as a catalyst, this is not something that was reliant on the existence of GT's SS4
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@Purple:
Although it may have acted as a catalyst, this is not something that was reliant on the existence of GT's SS4
Hahaha, that's true. Might seem that way in retrospect.
This was a result for "Super Saiyan 6":
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I guess we should be lucky that in Japan the inmates don't get to run the asylum too often.
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I loved Super 17's design, although I still don't know how he was created in the first place lol. Where did the second 17 come from again?
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Gonna Fly Now (eventhough Frieza can already fly).
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http://36.media.tumblr.com/b4f60000a1a0768820c92435193b4870/tumblr_nn19ducJdN1ty43boo1_500.jpg
Gonna Fly Now (eventhough Frieza can already fly).
Thank goodness somebody had the sense to include what the movie failed to show
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I loved Super 17's design, although I still don't know how he was created in the first place lol. Where did the second 17 come from again?
IIRC some copy made in Hell by Gero and Myuu.
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IIRC some copy made in Hell by Gero and Myuu.
I thought the real one was the one in hell? So he was alive this whole time?
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The best thing about GT is easily the opening "Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku" followed by the ending songs "Blue Velvet" and "Don't You See."
The lyrics for the opening are fantastic!
When I first met you,
I remembered a place that I held dear when I was a child.
Won’t you dance with me?
On a winding road of light and shadow, even now, are you lost on him?
There were just a few times where it seemed like I wanted to turn back,
But holding on to love, courage, and pride, I’ll fight on! -
I thought the real one was the one in hell? So he was alive this whole time?
Yeah. Basically the two evil scientists somehow constructed a clone… that could control 17 while in hell... through which they could open a portal to earth... and then somehow he'd fuse into Super 17 together.
Meanwhile, the real one was probably a wildlife ranger or something
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@Purple:
Yeah. Basically the two evil scientists somehow constructed a clone… that could control 17 while in hell... through which they could open a portal to earth... and then somehow he'd fuse into Super 17 together.
Meanwhile, the real one was probably a wildlife ranger or something
lol now I've seen it all
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The best thing about GT is easily the opening "Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku" followed by the ending songs "Blue Velvet" and "Don't You See."
Agreed! I particularly like how Blue Velvet has these scenes recounting some Dragon Ball key moments, then it follows Toriyama's manga spine theme of showing all of the characters in a line, then it ends to a shot of Goku and all of his friends, albeit all aged.
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This was very heart-warming by the way. -
@Purple:
Thank goodness somebody had the sense to include what the movie failed to show
Training montages aren't in the budget, please understand.
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Speaking of DBE, I had to idea its the highest grossing DB movie of all time, wow.
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http://36.media.tumblr.com/b4f60000a1a0768820c92435193b4870/tumblr_nn19ducJdN1ty43boo1_500.jpg
Gonna Fly Now (eventhough Frieza can already fly).
One panel for every month of Freezer's training regiment.
I thought the real one was the one in hell? So he was alive this whole time?
Yes, the original Android 17 was alive. Cell spit him back out along with 18. Of course, he vanished from the manga up until Goku's final Spirit Bomb. According to Toriyama, he became a park ranger and settled down with a wife and kids.
Of course, Dr. Gero and filler scientist creating a new exact double of 17 in Hell is really random. Super 17 also has an incredibly offputting design.
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@Cyan:
One panel for every month of Freezer's training regiment.
Yes, the original Android 17 was alive. Cell spit him back out along with 18. Of course, he vanished from the manga up until Goku's final Spirit Bomb. According to Toriyama, he became a park ranger and settled down with a wife and kids.
Of course, Dr. Gero and filler scientist creating a new exact double of 17 in Hell is really random. Super 17 also has an incredibly offputting design.
Actually, he came back to life after everyone killed by Cell was brought back (he was killed during Cell's sel-destruction). I guess we just have to assume that the whole "restoring somebody's body even if it's blown to pieces" thing is an upgrade Dende gave to Shenron.
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Actually, he came back to life after everyone killed by Cell was brought back (he was killed during Cell's sel-destruction). I guess we just have to assume that the whole "restoring somebody's body even if it's blown to pieces" thing is an upgrade Dende gave to Shenron.
Yeah I'm glad someone mentioned that since that always nagged the hell of me.
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Yajirobe with a mustache is goddamn hilarious.
It's also hilarious that the group shot doesn't feature Vegeta with his mustache.
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Taking a closer look…..Yamcha kinda reminds me of Kimblee from Full Metal Alchemist.
Also are Chiaotzu, Oolong, and Puar all immune to aging? lol
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Taking a closer look…..Yamcha kinda reminds me of Kimblee from Full Metal Alchemist.
Yamcha, Chi Chi, and Videl all have the same hairstyle, fucking lolllll
Did Korin even appear in GT? Or Puar?
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This post is deleted!
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Yeah! I enjoyed the redesigned Dragon Ball moments a lot as well as the lovely picture of Saiyaman on the hover bike with Videl, Goten, and Trunks! I have yet to find a nice touched up image from the actual opening, only this:
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@Cyan:
Of course, Dr. Gero and filler scientist creating a new exact double of 17 in Hell is really random. Super 17 also has an incredibly offputting design.
I never really understood why Gero would want to make a new 17 in the first place considering that the old one was always a problem for him. Why not just make a new Cell and fuse it with the one already in Hell?
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Agreed! I particularly like how Blue Velvet has these scenes recounting some Dragon Ball key moments, then it follows Toriyama's manga spine theme of showing all of the characters in a line, then it ends to a shot of Goku and all of his friends, albeit all aged.
[qimg]http://st-listas.20minutos.es/images/2009-12/169015/1876895_640px.jpg?1259977769[/qimg]
Always found that picture kinda depressing, solely due to Krillin.
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I never really understood why Gero would want to make a new 17 in the first place considering that the old one was always a problem for him. Why not just make a new Cell and fuse it with the one already in Hell?
When at first you fail, you feel compelled to try, try again.
Also, it would probably be a lot easier/less time consuming to create another 17 as opposed to planning and growing another cell.
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God the last chapter was ultra bad and I still hate this blue hair stuff
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What happened to Vegeta's hair. I thought pure-blood saiyan's hair never change.
I think Nappa had hair at some point.
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Always found that picture kinda depressing, solely due to Krillin.
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Yeah, he's younger than both Yamcha and Tenshinhan, yet looks decades older than both.
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Take GTs ending and the final arc''s pemise, make Toriyama re-write some plot points and slap that at the end of DBZ and it would have been the perfect ending, not the god awful bullshit that we actually got.
Hell, I'll even say that the Shadow Dragon arc is better than the Buu arc.
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What happened to Vegeta's hair. I thought pure-blood saiyan's hair never change.
It can still be cut and styled if they want. It just grows back out to its full shape and then stops there.
I never really understood why Gero would want to make a new 17 in the first place considering that the old one was always a problem for him. Why not just make a new Cell and fuse it with the one already in Hell?
As I recall there needed to be a resonance on the other side to open the gates of HFIL or something like that. Making another Cell would have just given them a strong guy where they were, but no way out.
@Halfmetal-lich:Hell, I'll even say that the Shadow Dragon arc is better than the Buu arc.
Aside from the downgrading of Gohan and Piccollo to second tier, the Buu arc was mostly good and fun, with lots of crazy twists and turns and dramatic moments, that at long last regained some of the fun of early dragonball. Along with some actual legitimate character development for Vegeta finally. Not sure what the complaint is here.
Its the Android saga that was mostly a miss.
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Aside from the downgrading of Gohan and Piccollo to second tier, the Buu arc was mostly good and fun, with lots of crazy twists and turns and dramatic moments, that a tlong last regained some of the fun of early dragonball. Not sure what the complaint is here.
To me, the Buu arc had no overall contribution to the series aside from Vegeta finally coming to terms with Goku, aside from that, it felt very much tacked on to the rather satisfying conclusion that would have come if the Cell arc had ended the series. That is my view, the Buu arc is not horrible by any means, but it felt very much like diminishing returns.
The Shadow Dragon arc from GT on the other hand, while being part of GT actually took an interesting path with the story, by directly addressing the fact that the Dragon Balls had basically become their cheat codes for getting out of every situation, something by the time of the Buu arc even the characters had begun to notice. While it is by no means perfect, I would have preferred that, with Shenlong and the balls leaving to teach the Z-fighters to no depend on them so much, and Goku leaving far, far better then the rushed about face ending we got with DBZ.
Hell, combine the best of both from Shadow Dragons and Buu: replace the Dragons with Buu instead and keep GTs ending with the other stuff from the Buu arc and that would have been the best way to end Z.
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I think the problem the buu arc has is that it is just a long string of fights from the start of the tournament. Unlike any previous arc (outside the tourney ones) which actually had non-fighting chapters and focused on story. Of course i think what happened is that Toriyama tried focus on a story-based arc with the androids and cell and it jsut wasn't that popular so he decided to solely focus on the fighting with buu. It's kind of like this movie and the last one. I hear battle of the gods, while having fighting, is more story and character focused. Whereas this one looks entirely fight focused the whole way through