i mean I'm not denying that Luffy will win, but, as we sort of saw with Roger, Garp, Shiki, Whitebeard, etc. these fights were repetitive. Kaidou, BB and Big Mom are easily some of the strongest people in the world; there's no reason after they're beaten that their influence should dissipate. it's not quite like Croc or Lucci where they're definitely strong but are ultimately just drops of water in a vast ocean. the Yonkou are so formidable that they can change the world with a flick of their finger
The Great New World Discussion Thread
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sure my friend, the yonkou have great authority and influence. but we know that in a given moment, they will get ripped of, we already have law and luffy targetting directly kaido, we have kid apoo and hawkins targetting another yonko (maybe big mom, given that oda already foreshadowed that, kid destroying big mom's ships), it wont last long till the balance gets dislocated.
we have also fujitora looking for abolishing the shichibykai system, so it's gonna come anyway.
and i don't get it, let's suppose that luffy defeated kaido, what will happen to kaido's territories? will the next yonko (be it law?) take them all?
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i am really interested in seeing how Oda is going to deal with the Yonkous after they've been defeated.
this is the first time Luffy's about to take down a villain who is a true monster in terms of both strength and influence.
I mean if Luffy defeats Kaidou, he'll still be alive, right? What's he going to do? I feel like he's the type of character who's so powerful that he could easily take back his territory.Same with Akainu and Blackbeard at the end of the series. Even if they get locked up in jail and the world is populated with good guys like Admiral Coby and Zoro and Sanji that could team up and deal with them should they escape, they're still ridiculously powerful. almost feels like the best way to truly make sure these bad guys don't come back with a vengeance is to kill them off or incapacitate them. Oda's said the reason he hasn't had Luffy kill off a villain so far is because he feels having their dreams crushed is a much more fitting punishment; yet I feel like egotistical powerhouses like Kaidou and Big Mom are far more inclined to not take no for an answer and come back to fuck Luffy's shit up
Agreed, really excited to see which direction Oda's goes after that( those) defeat(s). But think you're forgetting, don't really think Luffy will really be fighting for territory, per se. In which case it's more like what he's always saying, the freedom to go wherever he pleases within that territory, not held back by 'territory wars', not always for the territory itself. For that reason I believe the Yonkou's might not all or even majority be out to get revenge for their defeat. + with their defeat (s), I expect more people coming out to challenge them since they might've "sensed weakness", ( say might've as there might be a small chance like with the government, news of 1 of the Yonkou's "defeat" will not necessarily be that far known because of the circumstances of the defeat prevent it, also keeping SH's as the surprise underdogs for a little longer; really small chance though.), and they might be too busy with these new opponents, kinda like BB after the WB allies vs the Marines.
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i am really interested in seeing how Oda is going to deal with the Yonkous after they've been defeated.
this is the first time Luffy's about to take down a villain who is a true monster in terms of both strength and influence.
I mean if Luffy defeats Kaidou, he'll still be alive, right? What's he going to do? I feel like he's the type of character who's so powerful that he could easily take back his territory.Same with Akainu and Blackbeard at the end of the series. Even if they get locked up in jail and the world is populated with good guys like Admiral Coby and Zoro and Sanji that could team up and deal with them should they escape, they're still ridiculously powerful. almost feels like the best way to truly make sure these bad guys don't come back with a vengeance is to kill them off or incapacitate them. Oda's said the reason he hasn't had Luffy kill off a villain so far is because he feels having their dreams crushed is a much more fitting punishment; yet I feel like egotistical powerhouses like Kaidou and Big Mom are far more inclined to not take no for an answer and come back to fuck Luffy's shit up
That's an interesting thought. As you said yourself, the Yonkou are the top pirates of the world, holding massive influence in more than just one sense. Should one be defeated, the world's structure would once again change significantly ('once again' because of Whitebeard). Seeing one of them go down might be the opportunity the marines and Sakazuki in particular are waiting for. I can easily see them appear at the scene and capture the defeated Kaidou/Big Mom. That way your theoretical problem would be solved and the marines would score a hit as well.
Now, about keeping such a monster confined… where to keep them, how to ensure they don't escape etc., that's a different matter altogether.
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That's an interesting thought. As you said yourself, the Yonkou are the top pirates of the world, holding massive influence in more than just one sense. Should one be defeated, the world's structure would once again change significantly ('once again' because of Whitebeard). Seeing one of them go down might be the opportunity the marines and Sakazuki in particular are waiting for. I can easily see them appear at the scene and capture the defeated Kaidou/Big Mom. That way your theoretical problem would be solved and the marines would score a hit as well.
Now, about keeping such a monster confined… where to keep them, how to ensure they don't escape etc., that's a different matter altogether.
Surely if a Yonko was caught they'd be executed?
It would send a message to the entire world, just like they had planned on doing with Roger.
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Surely if a Yonko was caught they'd be executed?
It would send a message to the entire world, just like they had planned on doing with Roger.
Well sorry for trying to be human, Mr. Sakazuki.
But you're right. Thinking about it, there's no reason not to execute them and get rid of that threat once and for all. And seeing how the Yonkou are fierce competitors, it's unlikely that anyone would come to their rescue; or be able to, for that matter.
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Well sorry for trying to be human, Mr. Sakazuki.
But you're right. Thinking about it, there's no reason not to execute them and get rid of that threat once and for all. And seeing how the Yonkou are fierce competitors, it's unlikely that anyone would come for their rescue; or be able to, for that matter.
Lol I was just stating what would be the very likely thing to happen.
Like you said, get rid of the threat once and for all, as well as sending a message to every prospective pirate in the world.
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Well sorry for trying to be human, Mr. Sakazuki.
But you're right. Thinking about it, there's no reason not to execute them and get rid of that threat once and for all. And seeing how the Yonkou are fierce competitors, it's unlikely that anyone would come to their rescue; or be able to, for that matter.
What about they're crew and allies?
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Does anybody think that Luffy will ever be considered a Yonkou? Or do you think he will go straight to One Piece without ever being given such a title? Oh cool prediction: BB kills Shanks, Kidd kills Big Mom, and Luffy-Law kill Kaidou. Luffy-Law-Kidd-BB Yonkous-200 chapters away.
Yonkou isn't really a good title. You don't want to be a Yonkou. You want to be the Pirate King. Remember that the whole point there are Yonkous is not only having territory etc. But also because they are at a Stalemate, Whitebeard would be considered equal to Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom in their own respective ways therefore being at Stalemate because neither of them can make a move to take each other out.
So my best guess is, the next Yonkou to go down will bring chaos and no one will fill in that spot.
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@LUFFYSMC:
What about they're crew and allies?
Remember Ace's execution? It took the combined powers of Whitebeard, his crew, his allies, and Luffy and co to actually break through and reach the scaffold. Do you really think a Yonkou's crew (without their captain to lead them) and their allies would be enough to get past the admirals led by Sakazuki and all the other shenanigans the marines would come up with? I definitely do not.
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Random Rant Mode:
One thing about the New World that has to do with the popular perception that it's much more tame than Oda hyped it up to be is that it seems the SH's so far are basically dodging the really dangerous/tricky spots. That MASSIVE cock-tease that was Raijin Island could've been a good baptism, and an island worth of an insane place like the NW is supposed to be, but the plot took us somewhere else, and going to that island right now would mean backtracking, which I can only see if there's a Fishman Island 2.0 or if the SH's go at the Reverie, which I highly doubt.
Or the huge Black Hole like thingie that sucked Capone in; or the island where Apoo landed where shit started randomly floating for no reason. . .I feel like the New World IS a really insane place, it's just that the SH's so far have been going to incredibly mundane (for OP's standards) places, and the really funny, crazy places are somewhere else.
In fact, what crazy stuff we've seen so far (the sea going down in a slope, for example) is pretty tame considering the Paradise half of the Grand Line already had incredibly, almost Toriko levels of crazy stuff going on, like the sea going in crazy twists, an island full of dinosaurs, etc. . .
So, for the next arcs, I really, really hope Oda remembers that it's not only the strong foes the SH's are dealing with here, but also crazy meteorological stuff and surreal sea conditions that they must surpass.
So, yeah, that.
Radom Rant Mode off.
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Random Rant Mode:
One thing about the New World that has to do with the popular perception that it's much more tame than Oda hyped it up to be is that it seems the SH's so far are basically dodging the really dangerous/tricky spots. That MASSIVE cock-tease that was Raijin Island could've been a good baptism, and an island worth of an insane place like the NW is supposed to be, but the plot took us somewhere else, and going to that island right now would mean backtracking, which I can only see if there's a Fishman Island 2.0 or if the SH's go at the Reverie, which I highly doubt.
Or the huge Black Hole like thingie that sucked Capone in; or the island where Apoo landed where shit started randomly floating for no reason. . .I feel like the New World IS a really insane place, it's just that the SH's so far have been going to incredibly mundane (for OP's standards) places, and the really funny, crazy places are somewhere else.
In fact, what crazy stuff we've seen so far (the sea going down in a slope, for example) is pretty tame considering the Paradise half of the Grand Line already had incredibly, almost Toriko levels of crazy stuff going on, like the sea going in crazy twists, an island full of dinosaurs, etc. . .
So, for the next arcs, I really, really hope Oda remembers that it's not only the strong foes the SH's are dealing with here, but also crazy meteorological stuff and surreal sea conditions that they must surpass.
So, yeah, that.
Radom Rant Mode off.
Even this island looks interesting enough for me. Looks more like something you'd find in the NW.
But the reason the Strawhats have been avoiding those types of islands so far (aside from the current storyline not allowing it) might be because Oda has something even crazier planned for them. I fully expect them to land on one of those crazy and dangerous islands in-between places like Dressrosa or Wano. We're still at the beginning of the NW and I feel that we shouldn't give up hope just yet.
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That's an interesting thought. As you said yourself, the Yonkou are the top pirates of the world, holding massive influence in more than just one sense. Should one be defeated, the world's structure would once again change significantly ('once again' because of Whitebeard). Seeing one of them go down might be the opportunity the marines and Sakazuki in particular are waiting for. I can easily see them appear at the scene and capture the defeated Kaidou/Big Mom. That way your theoretical problem would be solved and the marines would score a hit as well.
Now, about keeping such a monster confined… where to keep them, how to ensure they don't escape etc., that's a different matter altogether.
yeah, though it would be in line with Akainu's character to kill off a Yonkou, it would still seem a little awkward
Oda doesn't kill unless it's absolute necessary for the plot, and I'm not sure Big Mom or Kaidou need to be executed. Not to mention onscreen deaths have so far required the full focus of the story for a number of chapters. I can't see Oda spending like 10 chapters on a Yonkou's execution.also, it would seem weird if Akainu and Blackbeard were executed under the jurisdiction of the new Marines. while it's hardly a villainous or unjust action, I'm not sure that's the note Oda would want to end the series upon.
it'll be definitely interesting to see the logistics of the Yonkou territory though. the case with Whitebeard was pretty easy just because WB was dead, but Kaidou is probably only going to get knocked out; it'll be interesting to see how the power structure changes when a Yonkou suffers defeat yet remains alive
anyway, I've been thinking that Akainu might be the first (and probably only) character Luffy kills. Unlike every other villain Luffy's faced, he just doesn't seem like the sort of person to be devastated because his dreams were crushed. he's a fascist nutcase and I'm pretty sure he'd do everything in his power to eliminate what he perceives as evil even if it violates the principles of the new government. either Luffy offs him or Luffy bashes the dude's head in and someone else (Marco or someone idk) kills him while he's on the ground
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yeah, though it would be in line with Akainu's character to kill off a Yonkou, it would still seem a little awkward
Oda doesn't kill unless it's absolute necessary for the plot, and I'm not sure Big Mom or Kaidou need to be executed. Not to mention onscreen deaths have so far required the full focus of the story for a number of chapters. I can't see Oda spending like 10 chapters on a Yonkou's execution.also, it would seem weird if Akainu and Blackbeard were executed under the jurisdiction of the new Marines. while it's hardly a villainous or unjust action, I'm not sure that's the note Oda would want to end the series upon.
it'll be definitely interesting to see the logistics of the Yonkou territory though. the case with Whitebeard was pretty easy just because WB was dead, but Kaidou is probably only going to get knocked out; it'll be interesting to see how the power structure changes when a Yonkou suffers defeat yet remains alive
anyway, I've been thinking that Akainu might be the first (and probably only) character Luffy kills. Unlike every other villain Luffy's faced, he just doesn't seem like the sort of person to be devastated because his dreams were crushed. he's a fascist nutcase and I'm pretty sure he'd do everything in his power to eliminate what he perceives as evil even if it violates the principles of the new government. either Luffy offs him or Luffy bashes the dude's head in and someone else (Marco or someone idk) kills him while he's on the ground
Doflamingo doesn't seem the type of guy to give up and go live in north blue .
He'll wait 2 weeks, rebuild the factory and start a new.
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@LordEnel:
Doflamingo doesn't seem the type of guy to give up and go live in north blue .
He'll wait 2 weeks, rebuild the factory and start a new.
I think fujitoras purpose in this arc has something to do with this. I seriously doubt hes here to fight anybody one on one since hes on a completley different level from everybody else on the island so hes probably here to sweep doflamingo off the floor when everything is said and done.
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I hardly think going to an island that is half blizzard, half melting with dragons running around is particularly tame. Not crazy weather, but still some crazy shit, whether or not the cause of all of that was a handful of individuals.
Surely if a Yonko was caught they'd be executed?
It would send a message to the entire world, just like they had planned on doing with Roger.
Really makes you wonder what point there even is to level 6. Just holding onto those terrible criminals for no real reason doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do. If you want to erase them from history, you can do that just as easily with them dead as you could alive. I get that it was entirely to do with the plot necessitating it, but I would be interested to see if Sakazuki were to do away with level 6 entirely. With his ideals it makes no sense to keep any sort of criminals around. Why allocate unnecessary resources to keeping criminals on the verge of death.
Then again, Impel Down is a government facility, not necessarily a Marine one, so he may have no sway there.
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yeah, though it would be in line with Akainu's character to kill off a Yonkou, it would still seem a little awkward
Oda doesn't kill unless it's absolute necessary for the plot, and I'm not sure Big Mom or Kaidou need to be executed. Not to mention onscreen deaths have so far required the full focus of the story for a number of chapters. I can't see Oda spending like 10 chapters on a Yonkou's execution.also, it would seem weird if Akainu and Blackbeard were executed under the jurisdiction of the new Marines. while it's hardly a villainous or unjust action, I'm not sure that's the note Oda would want to end the series upon.
it'll be definitely interesting to see the logistics of the Yonkou territory though. the case with Whitebeard was pretty easy just because WB was dead, but Kaidou is probably only going to get knocked out; it'll be interesting to see how the power structure changes when a Yonkou suffers defeat yet remains alive
anyway, I've been thinking that Akainu might be the first (and probably only) character Luffy kills. Unlike every other villain Luffy's faced, he just doesn't seem like the sort of person to be devastated because his dreams were crushed. he's a fascist nutcase and I'm pretty sure he'd do everything in his power to eliminate what he perceives as evil even if it violates the principles of the new government. either Luffy offs him or Luffy bashes the dude's head in and someone else (Marco or someone idk) kills him while he's on the ground
I wonder if the same could be said about Teach. He too is unlikely to change his world view after being defeated, and out of all the other powerful pirates, he's the most likely to seek revenge asap in my opinion. Now, there's of course the 'shatter their dreams' strategy Oda loves to use so very much, but would that be enough? How finite has that shattering to be for Teach to really give up and admit defeat? And as long as there's even a slight chance of reaching that goal, what tells us that he won't go for it again? He's someone who'd probably be best off dead as well.
I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which Teach somehow manages to kill himself due to overload or something along those lines. But this is only a baseless theory at this point and nothing I can support with evidence.
Have to agree on the Yonkou part. Seeing how their inner mechanics work, how everything is managed and whatnot is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. We've only seen a glimpse of Whitebeard's territory and influence so far, hence I think there's a lot more to it.
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yeah teach is definitely an issue too
suppose he gets locked up. is that really worth the risk? if he could get out of his seastone cuffs for just one split second he could unleash an earthquake so devastating upon the world that whole islands collide. -
@LordEnel:
Doflamingo doesn't seem the type of guy to give up and go live in north blue .
He'll wait 2 weeks, rebuild the factory and start a new.
Doflamingo seems to be the clearest case: His business deals will be disclosed and he probably managed to piss off the marines (by undermining them with Vergo), the WG (by arming a yonkou and all his other stuff) and some Yonkous as well.
A large part of his power also comes from all his shady underworld dealings, which will be lost. A defeat of him will probably mean his complete collapse as a NW power.A theory as for yonkous could be, that they have some last-resort uber-powerfull attack, that might kill them self or maybe losing control of their DF in a all-out battle could permanently damage them.
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Is there seriously a fucking discussion going on that the New World is tame when on island number two we're fighting a super strong Warlord's crew.
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And there's also an Admiral…and a Yonko...and Sabo (and the Revolutionaries) etc. Yup. Not seeing tame.
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@Monkey:
Is there seriously a fucking discussion going on that the New World is tame when on island number two we're fighting a super strong Warlord's crew.
Honestly, at this point I think those people wouldn't be satisfied by anything short of people dying left and right. And this ignores that we're focused mostly on major players in the new world like Dofla who have thrived there for quite a while. Everyone we're really spending time on is pretty much super strong and thus well equipped to take on the dangers of the new world. The few exceptions like Brownbeard (Who had an 80 mill bounty, which would be pretty high for the GL's first half) have generally gotten the shit kicked out of them relatively easily, and even they're generally people who'd thrive in the first half
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@Monkey:
Is there seriously a fucking discussion going on that the New World is tame when on island number two we're fighting a super strong Warlord's crew.
Nobody's complaining about the opponents. Everything's fine on that front. We're complaining about the lack of crazy islands, dangerous phenomena and all that jazz. It started out nicely when they first entered the NW and the sea was literally on fire, followed by an island like PH. But since then, the weather in particular was rather tame compared to what we had seen at the beginning of the Strawhats' NW journey.
But we're still at the beginning hence I do expect all that crazy shit happening eventually.
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@Monkey:
Is there seriously a fucking discussion going on that the New World is tame when on island number two we're fighting a super strong Warlord's crew.
I didn't include the villains in that aspect, only the crazyness of the environments, sudden climate changes, the ocean doing weird things. . .you know, things that we saw already during the first half of the Grand Line. Compared to that, the sea going on a downward slope was quite tame, even if Usopp freaked out. Hey, and I liked the sea slope just fine! As long as it is a light appetizer.
Also, I said the New World IS crazy; an island where thunder never stops raining down on you? An island where you start randomly levitating? All of that is great stuff. But, taking away the fact that the crazyness in Punk Hazard was totally artificial, created by the admiral's fight and Caesar's experiments, everything else sans the ocean of fire (even that might have been a side effect of the admiral fight too, I mean that part of the ocean was close to the fire part of the island) is pretty tame on the SH's side.
Again, it was more of a wish on my part that Oda will not forget that part of the fun, even if it's just for show and it doesn't carry any real danger, lies in the dangerousness of the ocean and the climate, and that the NW should be even more outrageous than the stuff we saw on the first half of the Grand Line. Just that.
The current arc is great, Dressrosa rocks as an island (even if it's closer to a paradise on earth than a dangerous island of the New World, but I'm fine with that) and the enemies are a huge step up from PH and FI, but that wasn't my point.
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Based on the chapter where the minister of the right or left don't remember which one explain the new log to Nami I don't think all island will be crazy that is if we look at the pose and the way the needle turns to the three individual islands, also remember we just start the new world
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I didn't include the villains in that aspect, only the crazyness of the environments, sudden climate changes, the ocean doing weird things. . .you know, things that we saw already during the first half of the Grand Line. Compared to that, the sea going on a downward slope was quite tame, even if Usopp freaked out. Hey, and I liked the sea slope just fine! As long as it is a light appetizer.
Also, I said the New World IS crazy; an island where thunder never stops raining down on you? An island where you start randomly levitating? All of that is great stuff. But, taking away the fact that the crazyness in Punk Hazard was totally artificial, created by the admiral's fight and Caesar's experiments, everything else sans the ocean of fire (even that might have been a side effect of the admiral fight too, I mean that part of the ocean was close to the fire part of the island) is pretty tame on the SH's side.
Again, it was more of a wish on my part that Oda will not forget that part of the fun, even if it's just for show and it doesn't carry any real danger, lies in the dangerousness of the ocean and the climate, and that the NW should be even more outrageous than the stuff we saw on the first half of the Grand Line. Just that.
Late reply, but what about the White Strom and the Fighting Fishes?
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Late reply, but what about the White Strom and the Fighting Fishes?
Yeah, the Fighting Fishes is a fair point, I wanted to point it out too but I forgot.
The white strom I totally forgot, to be honest. Also a good point, though I don't know how much of a New World fenomena it is?
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I wonder if the same could be said about Teach. He too is unlikely to change his world view after being defeated, and out of all the other powerful pirates, he's the most likely to seek revenge asap in my opinion. Now, there's of course the 'shatter their dreams' strategy Oda loves to use so very much, but would that be enough? How finite has that shattering to be for Teach to really give up and admit defeat? And as long as there's even a slight chance of reaching that goal, what tells us that he won't go for it again? He's someone who'd probably be best off dead as well.
I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which Teach somehow manages to kill himself due to overload or something along those lines. But this is only a baseless theory at this point and nothing I can support with evidence.
Have to agree on the Yonkou part. Seeing how their inner mechanics work, how everything is managed and whatnot is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most. We've only seen a glimpse of Whitebeard's territory and influence so far, hence I think there's a lot more to it.
I like what you've said here, you've touched on something that has been bothering me for a bit. This idea of "shattering dreams" is convenient in wrapping up defeated characters, but aren't they instances where it doesn't happen? Crocadile got the shit beaten out of him, yet at impel down, Marineford war and just before he left for the new world, did that look like a man whose "dreams" have been "shatterd"? How about Enel, literatly after luffy kicked his ass sideways Enel still had a grin on his face as he persued his ambition of Fairy Vearth. There's also Moria, who showed at the War with same goals he had, before being owned by luffy, intact. I could include foxy, who didn't seem like he was intended to retire after the multipile beatings he got from luffy. I'm haveing a hard time finding characters whose 'amition has been shattered", alot of him pick them selves up afterwards and continue to persue big ambitions.
Compared to the "villans" I mentioned, all the yonkos and Dolfy are far stronger in might and ambition, Luffy isn't going to shatter anyones dream here. If luffy does anythung short of killing them or they die due to other circumstances these new world superpowers are going to still be around and remain a potential threat as you've pointed out, which I personally don't have a problem with.
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This is not necessarily true. Shanks for example looks to have quite a small core crew on a single boat. I always imagined him just having lots and lots of allies and friends around the New World. I don't think we can say for certain that they all have massive crews like Whitebeard did. We know Kaido has an army, and there's hints Blackbeard has shaped his crew after Whitebeard's, but I don't think it's reasonable to make assumptions about the other two from that. The thing about the New World territories is that they work on name rather than actual present strength. You don't refrain from attacking Fishman Island because Big Mum has an actual military presence on the island - she doesn't - you avoid it because you know you'll have to pay the piper eventually and your stay in the New World becomes infinitely more uncomfortable for having drawn that attention to you.
And even if I'm wrong and Shanks has a large large crew, he still might fight Luffy one-on-one anyway because of their relationship.
You've made some good points. I think we've been shown that every yonko has a massive crew though, alot of the time when we see shanks his surounded by many members other than his core crew. Big Moms ship at dressrossa clearly has a small army on board and kaido is said to have over 500 DF user, I think that pretty much says it.
Where an exception seems to appear is with Roger, he supposedy had a small crew, theres no evidence to sugest he was ever a yonko, but you get the idea, he's relevent in that Luffy we'll probably model his crew like that, as in keep just the core members and have some allies and thats where I see some truth in what your saying.
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I like what you've said here, you've touched on something that has been bothering me for a bit. This idea of "shattering dreams" is convenient in wrapping up defeated characters, but aren't they instances where it doesn't happen? Crocadile got the shit beaten out of him, yet at impel down, Marineford war and just before he left for the new world, did that look like a man whose "dreams" have been "shatterd"? How about Enel, literatly after luffy kicked his ass sideways Enel still had a grin on his face as he persued his ambition of Fairy Vearth. There's also Moria, who showed at the War with same goals he had, before being owned by luffy, intact. I could include foxy, who didn't seem like he was intended to retire after the multipile beatings he got from luffy. I'm haveing a hard time finding characters whose 'amition has been shattered", alot of him pick them selves up afterwards and continue to persue big ambitions.
It's not "shattering dreams", it's destroying the enemy beliefs. From SBS vol 4,
"In this era, people put their lives on their beliefs and convictions, and fight. When he goes into battle, Luffy is destroying others' beliefs. And when these enemies' beliefs are shattered and defeated, they feel a pain equal to death. I think that for these pirates, killing or not killing is secondary to winning or losing."
Something like,- Don Krieg believe that he's invicible with his armor and weapon
- Arlong with his race's superiority
- Crocodile with "ancient weapon is needed to challenge the world'
- Enel with "i'am a god"
- Rob Luci with his justice
- Moria with his "it needs immortal crews to challenge NW"
- And Dofla with whatever he believe to accomplish his goal
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It's not "shattering dreams", it's destroying the enemy beliefs. From SBS vol 4,
"In this era, people put their lives on their beliefs and convictions, and fight. When he goes into battle, Luffy is destroying others' beliefs. And when these enemies' beliefs are shattered and defeated, they feel a pain equal to death. I think that for these pirates, killing or not killing is secondary to winning or losing."
Something like,- Don Krieg believe that he's invicible with his armor and weapon
- Arlong with his race's superiority
- Crocodile with "ancient weapon is needed to challenge the world'
- Enel with "i'am a god"
- Rob Luci with his justice
- Moria with his "it needs immortal crews to challenge NW"
- And Dofla with whatever he believe to accomplish his goal
Thanks for the clarification, though they're some things I disagree with like Enel, you really think he no longer sees himself as a God? I'm also curious, your thoughts regarding "shattering belief", Oda uses it as a substituation\alternative to death, but based on my observations of those defeated characters continued quests and potential future threat, would you equate that to the permanance of"death"? As others have asked, if Kaido is beaten by luffy, but continues to live, how do predict things will play out post-defeat?
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Really makes you wonder what point there even is to level 6. Just holding onto those terrible criminals for no real reason doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do. If you want to erase them from history, you can do that just as easily with them dead as you could alive. I get that it was entirely to do with the plot necessitating it, but I would be interested to see if Sakazuki were to do away with level 6 entirely. With his ideals it makes no sense to keep any sort of criminals around. Why allocate unnecessary resources to keeping criminals on the verge of death.
Then again, Impel Down is a government facility, not necessarily a Marine one, so he may have no sway there.
Impel Down as a whole is a complete waste of resources if prisoners just stay there for a lifetime without given chance of redemption. So it's probably just Government's idea of "justice". "If you stray from law you will be dragged here to be tortured for the rest of your life." Such a horrible fate must have scared more than a few people from raising a pirate flag.
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I think fujitoras purpose in this arc has something to do with this. I seriously doubt hes here to fight anybody one on one since hes on a completley different level from everybody else on the island so hes probably here to sweep doflamingo off the floor when everything is said and done.
Fujitora wants to abolish the shichibukai system so I think once he gets proof of what flamingo is actually doing on dressrosa he'll remove flamingo's shichibukai title. He'll probably also gonna have a hard fight with Zoro.
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Fujitora wants to abolish the shichibukai system so I think once he gets proof of what flamingo is actually doing on dressrosa he'll remove flamingo's shichibukai title. He'll probably also have a hard fight with Zoro.
He has no authority to remove Doula's status. Shichibukai don't have to answer to marines. Only ones who can remove Doula's status are Gorosei or Doula himself. What Fujitora can do is to gather evidence and lobby against him, or maybe passively help Strawhats defeat him. Same way Smoker and Tashigi helped SH on Alabasta.
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He has no authority to remove Doula's status. Shichibukai don't have to answer to marines. Only ones who can remove Doula's status are Gorosei or Doula himself. What Fujitora can do is to gather evidence and lobby against him, or maybe passively help Strawhats defeat him. Same way Smoker and Tashigi helped SH on Alabasta.
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2318-13/one-piece/chapter-211.html
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http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2318-13/one-piece/chapter-211.html
I don't really like when people just post links and think they have proven something.
If you didn't notice, Tashigi first had a talk with Smoker, who probably relayed orders to her. Then she went to Crocodile and said: "With the powers granted to me by World Government…".
Or do you think a marine corporal can decide to strip a Shichibukai from his title on his own? A situation is even more complicated with Doflamingo. It's why Fujitora wants to wait and see so he can bury Dofla properly. -
well the proofs against him were overwhelming they found the dance powder shortly before as soon as fujitora has proof doula is a normal pirate
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I don't really like when people just post links and think they have proven something.
If you didn't notice, Tashigi first had a talk with Smoker, who probably relayed orders to her. Then she went to Crocodile and said: "With the powers granted to me by World Government…".
Or do you think a marine corporal can decide to strip a Shichibukai from his title on his own? A situation is even more complicated with Doflamingo. It's why Fujitora wants to wait and see so he can bury Dofla properly.Any Marine have the authority to remove one's status If it meets following criteria.
1. Abuse of your Shishibukai status.
2. Endanger the citizens continuously.
3. Have Illicit business (This doesn't work unless this business is helping other pirates out).There's no an actual page or information where Oda explains who can remove the Shishibukai status but he have give us enough proof for this (2), [Tashigi removing Crocodile's title](http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/05/03/o/read4dc082c1a3eb7/One Piece - 211 - 13.jpg) after he tried to genocide Alabasta and Issho after learning that Law has made an alliance with the Strawhats
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He has no authority to remove Doula's status. Shichibukai don't have to answer to marines. Only ones who can remove Doula's status are Gorosei or Doula himself. What Fujitora can do is to gather evidence and lobby against him, or maybe passively help Strawhats defeat him. Same way Smoker and Tashigi helped SH on Alabasta.
He doesn't have to lobby against him. He can do it right away with enough evidence and proof that he is abusing the shichibukai title. Just like he did to law and what tashigi did to Crocodile when they removed their titles. With sufficient evidence they seem to have the authority to remove a shichibukai title.
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^
I think the normal army has some rules like this too where a superior officer is abusing his powers and a subordinate can call him out for it. Idk what exactly its called, but it happened in a few movies and shows, dunno if its actually true.
Then again Doffy is a cd, so he could just give the finger to all the rules.
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That he wasn't there for Luffy after Ace's death. I know that he's in a position that makes it difficult to just casually walk up to a wanted pirate, but I feel like he knew exactly where Luffy was after the events of Marineford and that, just like Rayleigh, he could've gone there on his own to support his grandson in times of need.
.Let's not forget that Rayleigh found him thanks to Shakky suggesting Handcock fell in love with Luffy.
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Let's not forget that Rayleigh found him thanks to Shakky suggesting Handcock fell in love with Luffy.
How does this make any sense, exactly?
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How does this make any sense, exactly?
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13920/one-piece_ch591_by_mangarule/10
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/13920/one-piece_ch591_by_mangarule/11But I totally forgot the part about Kuma.
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I'm just sitting here in hopes that the SH crew gets their bounties raised.
All of them.
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@MJR.:
I'm just sitting here in hopes that the SH crew gets their bounties raised.
All of them.
I highly doubt, that ALL of them will get new bounties. The obvious ones I see coming are Franky, Zoro and Luffy but the others are doubtful. Unless Kizaru arrives to the Sunny, gets some futile resistance and we will somehow get an excuse for Sanji & Co getting new bounties. But Usopp and Robin will remain in the shadows of Dressrosa for most of the arc, and that will not guarantee their bounty raise.
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@Lao:
I highly doubt, that ALL of them will get new bounties. The obvious ones I see coming are Franky, Zoro and Luffy but the others are doubtful. Unless Kizaru arrives to the Sunny, gets some futile resistance and we will somehow get an excuse for Sanji & Co getting new bounties. But Usopp and Robin will remain in the shadows of Dressrosa for most of the arc, and that will not guarantee their bounty raise.
I guess you're right.
But I hope that Luffy gets his bounty raised up to 450+mio. at least and Zoro's bounty up to 250+ mio.
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@MJR.:
I guess you're right.
But I hope that Luffy gets his bounty raised up to 450+mio. at least and Zoro's bounty up to 250+ mio.
What about Usopp? Shouldn't he get a new bounty.
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For now. He will cause enough ruckus later this arc
Swiss fellow answers a swiss fellow.
Grüezi.
Anyway how come you think he'll cause enough ruckus after Sugar/Trebol are defeated?
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@MJR.:
Swiss fellow answers a swiss fellow.
Grüezi.
Anyway how come you think he'll cause enough ruckus after Sugar/Trebol are defeated?
Hello from another swiss member ;) (French swiss though)
I believe that if the world gouvernement finds out he had something to do with their defeat, they might raise his bounty…Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk