Things in manga/anime you're sick of seeing

Aaronrules380

Only the main character and maybe his rival are ever useful for the good guys. Even if other good guys are considered strong or able to fight, they're still entirely useless because they're just SO outclasses by the villains

Sai-chan

Characters that are from completely different stories and yet have the exact same personality (ranging from 'sweet, innocent, cute girl' to 'angst ridden, dark, hot, heartthrob'), look like clones, are completely boring and fake, and I don't even know why they're even there god why what is the point

~~this is half the reason I stopped reading the majority of shoujo~~

Gliblord

@Cyclone_Baroness:

Excited utterances are weird to me in general. I guess that part of it is needed in writing cause you may not see who just showed up on panel. But I seriously hate when characters just randomly shout out a name and then don't say anything. Reborn does this all the time, Tsuna is always surprised when people walk into a room. "Reborn! Gokudera! Lambo!" Stop being so shocked lol.

"It's Akainuuuuu!!"

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@Nia:

I actually saw all that in my mind's eye just by reading those marvelous lines of dialogue.
Impressive.

/EDIT: Oh yeah, I remembered something.
Is it a Japenese language thing that people keep addressing each other by name? Instead of saying "Hi!" or "Could you please give me that", they always go out of their way to include the character's names somehow. It's really strange; I once tried to do that and talked like that for a day. Just … awkward.

You can say the name of the person you're talking to as "you."

For example, say you're talking to Yamada-san. "Yamada-san's hair is lovely" is "Your hair is lovely"

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@Silence:

"The sea!"
Or "What a nice wind!"

Every single character that says these things while tucking an errant strand of hair behind her ear, eyes full of virginal purity and promise
should be crushed by a tidal wave, then carried off by a tornado and smashed into a cliff face
Because they are officially about as fake as you can get
And I can't give no fucks about characters too fake to relate to.

Lol, have you never gone "What a nice breeze"?

Sander

@Gliblord:

Beam attacks need to die in general

-Prepare to fire the Wave Motion Gun,that is our only hope of survival!
-Sir,I'm afraid we can't.Beam attacks have died in general.
-Seriously?
-Yeah sir,I know it sucks.I hear those Macross dudes can't even fire their fancy super dimensional thingy anymore and all those Gundam boys had their beam rifles confiscated.You can't shoot a tiny laser these days.
-Well,thanks A LOT,Gliblord!

pyromonki

I noticed a lot of complaints can be traced to character archetypes, something that should be done away with. Yes, I know there's only so many different personalities a person can have, but sometimes characters feel too cartoony or too fake and cloned from other characters. I would love to see characters fleshed out a lot more. Sure… a manga can be made longer because of this, but if that character has a role in the story, that character should be fleshed out to why they are this cold blooded killing machine, or act the way they do.I've yet to ever actually meet a "Tsundere" girl.Oh yeah... and loli characters are usually completely unsufferable... and someone who refers to themselves in THIRD PERSON.

Silence

@Gliblord:

Lol, have you never gone "What a nice breeze"?

I think the difference here is I'm not a walking japanese maiden heroine stereotype.

Obviously.

Cyclone_Baroness

I've said stuff like. "Oh man it's really warm out!" (Because it's rare in Seattle) And tucked my hair back from a breeze cause it got in my mouth when I talked. But I've been directly commenting to someone. Not the sky itself.

Cruithne

-Manga titles with exclamation points. It just looks dumb and doesn't accomplish whatever the author was intending.

-That if a dude's weak and wimpy, he'll get his badass moment in due time (yay); but if a girl's weak and wimpy, it's seen as a good thing and she'll just cheer on the hero and get kidnapped (oh god no why would you do that).

-That tomboys need something "redeemingly feminine" about them, and that it needs to be pointed out ("oh, she really is a girl"). Girly boys don't need that, so why do they?

-The lack of a good wholesome bromance between the main girl and guy. Just because they're the leads doesn't mean they have to fall in love with each other.

-Romance in general. More often than not it serves as nothing but a gigantic plot tumor and makes everyone stupid (which is why I hate shoujo manga in general).

-The "herp I've got a demon/monster/dark force inside me" plot points not being done well. So often the angst is wangst and I can't empathize with it at all.

-Tsunderes. Just. Tsunderes.

Gliblord

@Silence:

I think the difference here is I'm not a walking japanese maiden heroine stereotype.

Obviously.

Japanese maiden heroines like nice breezes too

King Cannon

@pyromonki:

I noticed a lot of complaints can be traced to character archetypes, something that should be done away with. Yes, I know there's only so many different personalities a person can have, but sometimes characters feel too cartoony or too fake and cloned from other characters. I would love to see characters fleshed out a lot more. Sure… a manga can be made longer because of this, but if that character has a role in the story, that character should be fleshed out to why they are this cold blooded killing machine, or act the way they do.I've yet to ever actually meet a "Tsundere" girl.Oh yeah... and loli characters are usually completely unsufferable... and someone who refers to themselves in THIRD PERSON.

I noticed that too. It's less about plots and more about characters. We should make a list of overused character archetypes:

Hot-blooded idiot heroes.
Stoic rivals.
Tsunderes.
Lolis.
Dirty old men.
Twins that seem to share the same mind.
Characters who have completely neutral expressions. All. The. Time.
Mary Sues.
Incredibly shy and awkward Moe girls. Glasses optional.
Characters created for the purpose of sex appeal.
Bratty kid characters who are generally useless and always get in trouble.
Super angsty loner (teenage) heart throbs.
Kid prodigies.
Indifferent big brothers.
Fighting addicts.
Narcissists.
Random furries.
Seemingly flawless villains that like toying with everybody.

Keep adding to the list, folks! No need to copy the entire list. Just keep listing and I'll edit them there.

Sai-chan

Hot-blooded idiot heroes.
Stoic rivals.
Tsunderes.
Lolis.
Dirty old men.
Twins that seem to share the same mind.
Characters who have completely neutral expressions. All. The. Time.

Hiroy

Hot-blooded idiot heroes.
Stoic rivals.
Tsunderes.
Lolis.
Dirty old men.
Twins that seem to share the same mind.
Characters who have completely neutral expressions. All. The. Time.
Mary sues

Kylor

Sexism.

Among other things, granted, but that one's the most obvious.

Also, "mysterious" shadows in places where there really shouldn't be any shadows.

King Cannon

This post is deleted!

Kizuchan

Hot-blooded idiot heroes.
Stoic rivals.
Tsunderes.
Lolis.
Dirty old men.
Twins that seem to share the same mind.
Characters who have completely neutral expressions. All. The. Time.
Mary Sues.
Moe characters making wierd noises.
Bratty kid characters who are generally useless and always get in trouble(might overlap with lolis).

Naturally, some of these have exceptions because stereotypes by themselves aren't always bad.

GJardim

There have been listed a lot of things that I'm already sick of them, though, I like when it's used in a certain way that makes it interesting or, atleast, decent, like tsunderes. Otherwise, it's ridiculous and I try to avoid such mangas/animes.
And I guess this hasn't been listed:

Male and female protagonists fight "clones" antagonists. They share similars powers, personalities and appearences, without a reason to them to be so similar.

Sai-chan

Hot-blooded idiot heroes.
Stoic rivals.
Tsunderes.
Lolis.
Dirty old men.
Twins that seem to share the same mind.
Characters who have completely neutral expressions. All. The. Time.
Mary Sues.
Incredibly shy and awkward Moe girls. Glasses optional.
Bratty kid characters who are generally useless and always get in trouble(might overlap with lolis).
Super angsty loner (teenage) heart throbs.

Gliblord

These are beginning to overlap quite a bit guys

Robby

Normally I don't full blown shill for the company I work at unless its appropriate, but… in this case... It's appropriate.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs7/i/2005/184/5/7/How_NOT_to_Draw_Manga_Cover_by_Inkmo.jpg

No drawing lessons in there, just pure, pure sarcastic genre breaking apart and heckling. I think ya'll would enjoy it.

http://www.antarctic-press.com/html/version_01/viewitem.php?id=4982&bk

I'll see about putting up some pages later.

King Cannon

@Gliblord:

These are beginning to overlap quite a bit guys

Bleach is perfect to find some of those archetypes, though. The Gotei 13 alone offers us:

Prodigies.
Indifferent big brothers.
Fighting addicts.
Narcissists.
Random furries.
Seemingly flawless villains that like toying with everybody.

Did I forget any archetype of notice?

Zik

I will never understand the whole ambiguous gender character and why they're introduced. There's nothing cool or mysterious about not knowing if a character is male or female and purposely being unclear about it. I'd even prefer if you come out and say the character is a hermaphodite at the least.

Never cared for yelling the name of your attack before you do it in any scenario and when I think about it when it use to be popular I don't think any other medium even does this anymore but them. Not video games or cartoons or other kind of shows, not even other comics, just manga and anime.

There's plenty of examples to laugh it on tvtropes.

MasterKingJC

All of the things that I'm tired of seeing in manga/anime has already been mentioned.

So I'll just simply nod my head casually in agreement.

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@Gliblord:

Beam attacks need to die in general

Zik

@Hisoga:

ok.. just asking.. i don't really know what cliche anymore.. for me it just what i like, what i don't like, good writing and bad writing..

but when we talk about anime i really like this comment:

! http://i45.tinypic.com/es2a2s.png

As far as the spoiler by the guy on 4chan I'd say he's spot on and it even extends to manga/comics as far as how it's valued and critically acclaimed by Eastern and Western audiences. Over here in the states, comics that are in the same genre of manga have a completely different approach and format. It's why guys like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Frank Miller, etc. are seen as ushering in new eras or making some of the greatest comics/graphic novels. Their impact is huge over here and that's why a western audience will love the more dark and edgier manga.

Rogues' Gallery

Generic Male Shounen lead sits behind his brandished oak desk in his high-school classroom, staring outside the glass window and gazing at the clear blue sky while simultaneously thinking "I thought my normal, peaceful, boring everyday life would continue on forever…"

Then BAM! mahou shoujo or some shit.

Seriously, You have NO IDEA how many titles start out this exact way.

Daz

Boring as fuck paint-by numbers seriez businez smirking badass characters.
Or in other words
@Silence:

http://i.imgur.com/qUX9i.gif

I agree with Silence here.

Get out of my wacky pirate manga, or at least stop hogging the spotlight, Law you bland twat you.

A personal major pet peeve of mine, that I'm surprised haven't come up more:

Handsome ex-villain: Hello, I'd like to submit this protagonist application
Clerk: very good sir. How long has it been since your last appearance as a villain?
Villain: Oh, a few story arcs.
Clerk: And what was the scale of your villainy? Any protagonist casualties?
Villain: Uh yeah, a few main characters. But if they got ressurected?
Clerk: Don't worry, then it doesn't count. Any others?
Villain: A dozen C-list characters, and a few thousand civilians, both caused by me directly and indirectly.
Clerk: Those don't count either. And I see you fulfill our handsomeness criteria, excellent. Will you be able to make a surprising, last-minute-backup appearance in the current srotyline?
Villain: Heck yes!
Clerk: Then here's your new Status card. It entitles you to appear on color spreads, removes your past heinous deeds as potential conversation topics, and any negative feelings a female character might've had towards you due to abuse, torture or murder is reversed into growing infatuation or respect.
Gazille: And it works!
Clerk: For 100$ extra we'll thrown in a retcon-flashback that'll bend continuity ass-backwards in order to provide feeble justification for your actions.
Villain: KA-CHING!

Silence

@The:

Boring as fuck paint-by numbers seriez businez smirking badass characters.
Or in other words

I agree with Silence here.

Get out of my wacky pirate manga, or at least stop hogging the spotlight, Law you bland twat you.

My dude. daps

Daz knows what I'm about.
Don't even gotta say nothin', and we're on the level.

Cruithne

@Zik:

I will never understand the whole ambiguous gender character and why they're introduced. There's nothing cool or mysterious about not knowing if a character is male or female and purposely being unclear about it. I'd even prefer if you come out and say the character is a hermaphodite at the least.

Because if the character is a guy, then ~YAAAAAAAAAAAY KAWAII BISHIE UKE YAOI DESU ^___________________________^~

If it's a girl, then ~YAAAAAAY NEW MACGUFFIN AND LOVE INTEREST ^__________^~

Beyond the occasional Naoto, it's just for the plot and pandering to audience.

Hisoga

@Zik:

As far as the spoiler by the guy on 4chan I'd say he's spot on and it even extends to manga/comics as far as how it's valued and critically acclaimed by Eastern and Western audiences. Over here in the states, comics that are in the same genre of manga have a completely different approach and format. It's why guys like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Frank Miller, etc. are seen as ushering in new eras or making some of the greatest comics/graphic novels. Their impact is huge over here and that's why a western audience will love the more dark and edgier manga.

thanks for reading man..

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@The:

Boring as fuck paint-by numbers seriez businez smirking badass characters.
Or in other words

I agree with Silence here.

Get out of my wacky pirate manga, or at least stop hogging the spotlight, Law you bland twat you.

A personal major pet peeve of mine, that I'm surprised haven't come up more:

Handsome ex-villain: Hello, I'd like to submit this protagonist application
Clerk: very good sir. How long has it been since your last appearance as a villain?
Villain: Oh, a few story arcs.
Clerk: And what was the scale of your villainy? Any protagonist casualties?
Villain: Uh yeah, a few main characters. But if they got ressurected?
Clerk: Don't worry, then it doesn't count. Any others?
Villain: A dozen C-list characters, and a few thousand civilians, both caused by me directly and indirectly.
Clerk: Those don't count either. And I see you fulfill our handsomeness criteria, excellent. Will you be able to make a surprising, last-minute-backup appearance in the current srotyline?
Villain: Heck yes!
Clerk: Then here's your new Status card. It entitles you to appear on color spreads, removes your past heinous deeds as potential conversation topics, and any negative feelings a female character might've had towards you due to abuse, torture or murder is reversed into growing infatuation or respect.
Gazille: And it works!
Clerk: For 100$ extra we'll thrown in a retcon-flashback that'll bend continuity ass-backwards in order to provide feeble justification for your actions.
Villain: KA-CHING!

but.. but.. without bland characters how can we appreciates fun characters… "bland" is a personality too.. without them, fun characters will be boring because all of the characters is a fun type.. and thatss make the story less variety when it some to character personality...

RPGJay

Villains turned heroes/anti-heroes are really cool when done correctly.

But like Daz said their previous encounters can't be too heinous as a result unless it's a sort of temporary alliance like Luffy and Crocodile during Impel Down and eventually into the War.

Cyclone_Baroness

Hmm…I wonder if that's why Law seems a bit out of place. He has no personality gimmick. Most characters in the OP universe seem to have some sort of gag or schtick in their behavior.

MasterKingJC

@Cyclone_Baroness:

Hmm…I wonder if that's why Law seems a bit out of place. He has no personality gimmick. Most characters in the OP universe seem to have some sort of gag or schtick in their behavior.

Maybe his obsession with hearts could count as a personality gimmick.
Or maybe the fact that he doesn't like having cute reindeers tied to his head.

Knight King

Idk if anyone mentioned this or not but Tsundere girls. I see them in almost every anime I watch.

Cyclone_Baroness

Oh. I hate it when the hero gives the villain a free power up or handicaps himself to make the fight fair…

BartArt

@Naruto:

Idk if anyone mentioned this or not but Tsundere girls. I see them in almost every anime I watch.

Yes. People have mentioned that, yes they have.

@Deviant_Mugen:

-Tsunderes who are 99.9% tsuntsun and .1% deredere.

@pyromonki:

I've yet to ever actually meet a "Tsundere" girl.

@Cruithne:

-Tsunderes. Just. Tsunderes.

@King:

• Tsunderes.

@Sai-chan:

• Tsunderes.

@Hiroy:

• Tsunderes.

@Kizuchan:

• Tsunderes.

city_lights31

@The:

A personal major pet peeve of mine, that I'm surprised haven't come up more:

Handsome ex-villain: Hello, I'd like to submit this protagonist application
Clerk: very good sir. How long has it been since your last appearance as a villain?
Villain: Oh, a few story arcs.
Clerk: And what was the scale of your villainy? Any protagonist casualties?
Villain: Uh yeah, a few main characters. But if they got ressurected?
Clerk: Don't worry, then it doesn't count. Any others?
Villain: A dozen C-list characters, and a few thousand civilians, both caused by me directly and indirectly.
Clerk: Those don't count either. And I see you fulfill our handsomeness criteria, excellent. Will you be able to make a surprising, last-minute-backup appearance in the current srotyline?
Villain: Heck yes!
Clerk: Then here's your new Status card. It entitles you to appear on color spreads, removes your past heinous deeds as potential conversation topics, and any negative feelings a female character might've had towards you due to abuse, torture or murder is reversed into growing infatuation or respect.
Gazille: And it works!
Clerk: For 100$ extra we'll thrown in a retcon-flashback that'll bend continuity ass-backwards in order to provide feeble justification for your actions.
Villain: KA-CHING!

I was going to bring up the Vegeta factor as well but I am happy I waited, you did a better job than I would have. Plus, I have mixed feeling about this little cliche because I think it can pretty cool if it is written well.

Hiroy

@Cyclone_Baroness:

Oh. I hate it when the hero gives the villain a free power up or handicaps himself to make the fight fair…

This would never make sense to me.

"With this attack! I can blow up a planet!"
"Here, use this. This attack can blow up the whole solar system"
"Why are you.. do you want to save your planet?"
"Yes, but this makes the fight fair"
"How the fuck?"

Cruithne

Sidemouth. I get why animators do it, but manga artists need to just stop.

Also chins so pointy they could stab someone/cut things/butter their toast. Even worse when the artist starts off rounded and then moves to pointy-chin-of-death for whatever reason.

Katzztar

@The:

A personal major pet peeve of mine, that I'm surprised haven't come up more:

Handsome ex-villain: Hello, I'd like to submit this protagonist application
Clerk: very good sir. How long has it been since your last appearance as a villain?
Villain: Oh, a few story arcs.
Clerk: And what was the scale of your villainy? Any protagonist casualties?
Villain: Uh yeah, a few main characters. But if they got ressurected?
Clerk: Don't worry, then it doesn't count. Any others?
Villain: A dozen C-list characters, and a few thousand civilians, both caused by me directly and indirectly.
Clerk: Those don't count either. And I see you fulfill our handsomeness criteria, excellent. Will you be able to make a surprising, last-minute-backup appearance in the current srotyline?
Villain: Heck yes!
Clerk: Then here's your new Status card. It entitles you to appear on color spreads, removes your past heinous deeds as potential conversation topics, and any negative feelings a female character might've had towards you due to abuse, torture or murder is reversed into growing infatuation or respect.
Gazille: And it works!
Clerk: For 100$ extra we'll thrown in a retcon-flashback that'll bend continuity ass-backwards in order to provide feeble justification for your actions.
Villain: KA-CHING!

(not so) Funny thing is that this gimmick is used in other areas besides manga now, we can not get away from it.

Marvel Comics is so bad that they have a character that has filled out the new status card, had a relapse into villianly, and re-applied, and again became a hero. Well they have several characters, but one I can think of has done it about three (at least) times= Magneto

Gokudera

@Katzztar:

(not so) Funny thing is that this gimmick is used in other areas besides manga now, we can not get away from it.

Marvel Comics is so bad that they have a character that has filled out the new status card, had a relapse into villianly, and re-applied, and again became a hero. Well they have several characters, but one I can think of has done it about three (at least) times= Magneto

Or Gambit. I don't see how people still trust that fucker. Emma Frost did a pretty good job with the status card though.

But, other than DC, Gajeel from Fairy Tail came into mind when I read this.

Katzztar

@Gokudera:

Or Gambit. I don't see how people still trust that fucker. Emma Frost did a pretty good job with the status card though.

Guess I'm too old, I've seen no vindication, or reasoning away why she mind-raped Kitty Pryde during the time of the first Secret Wars, when Kitty traveled with Doug Ramsey to the Mass. Academy. I still don't like Frost, guess I'm too loyal to Kitty Pryde.
The ones that I like in marvel comes that switched sides are Karma, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver. Now they had some solid reasons behind the criminal actions and beleivable turning to good. Ironcially all three were working for some family member as crimials. Difference is that Wanda & Pietro at first didn't know their relation to Magneto, while Karma knew her uncle was a crime lord

Gokudera

@Katzztar:

Guess I'm too old, I've seen no vindication, or reasoning away why she mind-raped Kitty Pryde during the time of the first Secret Wars, when Kitty traveled with Doug Ramsey to the Mass. Academy. I still don't like Frost, guess I'm too loyal to Kitty Pryde.
The ones that I like in marvel comes that switched sides are Karma, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver. Now they had some solid reasons behind the criminal actions and beleivable turning to good. Ironcially all three were working for some family member as crimials. Difference is that Wanda & Pietro at first didn't know their relation to Magneto, while Karma knew her uncle was a crime lord

I was thinking about that, but she just seems to naturally fit in with the rest of them. Although, the Cyclops/Emma pairing always did seem out of place to me.

Sandman from Spiderman seems to play the "Status card" often if my memory serves right. It's been years.

Sander

Dumbass redshirts in giant robot cartoons.Atleast try to pretend that you're competent military men!It's absolutely not impressive to see Kira Spamato shoot down another bunch of morons.

Though the worst example yet was in Code Geass,where a squad of robots with GUNS FOR LIMBS try to engage a sword-weilding mecha in melee and,as you would imagine,fail spectacularly.

Zik

@Katzztar:

(not so) Funny thing is that this gimmick is used in other areas besides manga now, we can not get away from it.

Marvel Comics is so bad that they have a character that has filled out the new status card, had a relapse into villianly, and re-applied, and again became a hero. Well they have several characters, but one I can think of has done it about three (at least) times= Magneto

IMO, it all went downhill when Marvel let Magneto basically kill millions of NYers holocaust style after being hopped up on mutant enhancing drugs that made him go insane as well. Then because of the success of the X-Men movies, the powers that be pull the back door to make it extremely unclear and ambiguous that Magneto didn't do it and Xorn who was a disguise is now an actual character who was insane and believed he was Magneto and did it. They handle this so poorly that many characters in continuity still think it was Magneto and all he can reply with is "It wasn't me."

After that clusterfuck, they've just never could right the ship with him being an anti-hero let alone a hero.
@Gokudera:

Or Gambit. I don't see how people still trust that fucker. Emma Frost did a pretty good job with the status card though.

But, other than DC, Gajeel from Fairy Tail came into mind when I read this.

Gambit only led a kill crew to hideous mutants living underground in fear of persecution by humans and later willingly became a horsemen of Apocalypse. To me it's a lot to forgive, especially the first part but he had his reasons (made a deal with Sinister to scale back his powers that was killing him or other ppl, he basically couldn't control it), what I hate though is the piss poor reactions. No emotion except from a former member of the Morlocks.

Although they were good stories, you got Prof. X mind raping Cyclops to forget the deaths of the actual 2nd X-Men team (which included Scott's younger brother), ignoring the existence of the Morlocks (not even offering them sanctuary) that Gambit later indirectly help kill, never revealing to the world he was a mutant cuz he could pass for human, and overall being a real tool about his actions (I'm sure I'm forgetting other heinous acts by him).

Emma never did get justification for her actions or made up for it in one big heroic way but she has done enough good to get the pass. Sandman ended up getting brainwashed by his old criminal partner the Wizard and never went good again despite acknowledging he was once a hero and Avenger.

Marvel still hasn't justified Iron Man's actions in the Civil War where he was a huge part to blame (along with Pym and Richards) for killing one of the few black superheroes they have with their cloned cyborg white thunder god. What I remember of Black Goliath's "funeral" after he died the size of a giant, they wrapped him in a huge white sheet and wrapped chains around him and threw him in a huge hole and buried him.

Takaho

Well….looks like we're going to have to use that You mean they know that certain person? Stop being vague to try and stir up mystery.

Traveller

Extreme reactions and shouting (example: Nisekoi)
Childhood friends (adulthood friends are just as good!)
Misunderstandings that could be cleared up just by opening your mouth or being honest
Use of japanese terms in a translated text (this is one for all you onee-chans out there)

Cruithne

@Takaho:

Well….looks like we're going to have to use that You mean they know that certain person? Stop being vague to try and stir up mystery.

At this point, it'd probably be more mysterious if they gave us a name instead of being vague. At least we'd get something solid to speculate on.

Robby

@Katzztar:

Guess I'm too old, I've seen no vindication, or reasoning away why she mind-raped Kitty Pryde during the time of the first Secret Wars, when Kitty traveled with Doug Ramsey to the Mass. Academy. I still don't like Frost, guess I'm too loyal to Kitty Pryde.

@Zik:

Emma never did get justification for her actions or made up for it in one big heroic way but she has done enough good to get the pass.

Her entire school of student Hellions were killed due to her methods and being evil. After that she started seeing things closer to Xavier's way and moved over to help run Generation-X. (And that was nearly 20 years ago, real time.) And in the time since the entire mutant population has been cut down to less than 200, so even more so.

Also, she and Cyclops hooked up later at some point for… some reason. But they're a far more interesting couple than Scott and Jean ever were. She's been on the card carrying goodside (while totally flirting with bad) for about two decades now. She's earned it by now.

Besides, Phoenix destroyed entire galaxies and blah blah blah.

Marvel still hasn't justified Iron Man's actions in the Civil War where he was a huge part to blame (along with Pym and Richards) for killing one of the few black superheroes they have with their cloned cyborg white thunder god. What I remember of Black Goliath's "funeral" after he died the size of a giant, they wrapped him in a huge white sheet and wrapped chains around him and threw him in a huge hole and buried him.

They pretty much wiped the slate clean with "Skrulls did it" and "He had good intentions and Norman Osborn was way worse."

Besides, Spiderman made a deal with the devil to mindwipe the entire world, abort his baby and divorce his wife since then.

Which was then retconned into something else almost immediately because no one liked that story.

Nia

@Traveller:

Misunderstandings that could be cleared up just by opening your mouth or being honest

Oh God, I hate it so much. Especially love comedies/harem stories are guilty of that one: Guy (usually protagonist) is caught in a very strange/suggestive looking situation involving another girl/an embarrassing situation by the main love interest.
Instead of just EXPLAINING the situation right away the guy stotters, stammers and says things like "It's not what you think!" while the love interest shouts at and/or hits the guy and storms off angrily/hurt.

Nekketsu

"Deus ex-machina", how come no one said this one yet?

Hiroy

-Manga that spends an entire chapter explaining how a power system works.
-Manga that comes up with a new power system occasionally and explains it one chapter every single time
-Forgot about the above two.
-Why?
-Reborn is probably the only manga that does this