the only positive to the sanji fight is that he may stop the hearts for eyes crap, this hasn't been a kiddies comic (though i mean manga but due to alliteration i chose the word comic purposely incorrectly) for a while now, forget heat eye crap, the straw hats need to grow up a bit.
Chapter 400 "Key of Liberation" Discussion
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Not a kid's comic? Robin saying "I want to die" abolished that.
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Not a kid's comic? Robin saying "I want to die" abolished that.
you mean supported that right?
as in, it's definately not a kids manga?
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One Piece never was a kids manga.
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you mean supported that right?
as in, it's definately not a kids manga?
Abolished the fact that it was a kid's manga, I meant.
So yes, supported it.
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@Green:
One Piece never was a kids manga.
i assure you it was, if you go back and check early one piece, it's very kiddified. hell usopp's whole character is under 16 appeal, even now.
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hm.. what about the alabasta bath scene? nami saying "[some money amount] per person" to look at her chest.. doesn't exactly seem kids manga to me
but thats just one of a few scene
other than those… one piece does seem very kiddy, probably because of the humor aspect that oda uses
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One Piece is a kiddies' manga? Eh… not so much, Oda is working in such a fashion that it could appeal to anybody of any age. It's not strictly for kids, but it's not strictly for adults either. One Piece is for everyone.
There's nothing in it that would really go over the head of little kids who enjoy it.
Well, time for the ol copy and paste again.
_Seastone is a stone that emits invisible waves that weaken DF users.
Seastone has never once been shown to work through radiation; all instances have involved contact to some degree.
If it emits waves, then the waves have such a limited range that the Devil Fruit user essentially has to be in contact with the seastone to be affected.
Touching a seastone temporarily weakens DF users, but in minute quantities, their powers are merely arrested, and they have their normal strength still.
Nope, minute quantities of seastone don't inhibit Devil Fruit powers in any fashion. We see this to be the case in Skypiea in numerous instances. The obvious is where Usopp falls through the clouds, but is rescued by Robin and Luffy using their powers. Exact amounts are unknown, but there is enough seastone in sea cloud that a Devil Fruit user instantly sinks into it. Even then, land cloud also contains seastone, but we see Luffy, Robin, Chopper, and Ener all move around without any ill effects at all.
On top of everything else, there's clearly an upper limit as to how much seastone affects a Devil Fruit user. Robin is still able to move around under her own power despite the continued presence of seastone, as such, it must only affect the body to a certain degree. Which makes sense as Luffy had most of his body completely immersed in seawater for a considerable length of time, but came out with no ill effects.
Of course, this is what we know from OBSERVATION.
Outside of the stuff that clearly contradicts everything Oda has shown at any rate._
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One Piece never was a kids manga.
Fact:
The manga is read by children, teenagers and adults.
Fact:
The animation is watched mainly by young children.
Fact:
The animation is edited even in Japan for sole purposes of being appropriate for even small children.
Fact:
The comic is printed in a comic magazine accessible to all ages and in mass quantities, the name of which is 'Young Boy's JUMP'.
Fact:
One Piece is a kid's manga. One Piece is a teen's manga. One Piece is an adult's manga.
Fact:
One Piece cannot be found in the 'Adult Comics' section of bookstores in Japan. A section which includes perfectly normal series like MONSTER, not simply porn.
Face reality. One Piece is nothing mature and special as far as content. One Piece is a manga for everyone and anyone that can read it.
Edit: For a clear example of comics not appropriate for children I highly suggest a read through of the several chapters spent killing Mitsuko in the Battle Royale comic….not that kids don't read it anyway.
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OP is a kids manga. Yeah, its slightly deeper and slightly more complicated than the Narutos, but its still kids manga. The fact that it appeals to me, despite that i'm over 20, or to someone elce that is say, over 40, doesn't mean a thing. HxH, for example, can be much darker and more serious than OP, but is still shounen. Basically, a slightly darker ark or two don't make the OP comics the next Kuroshia Ichi or Blame!.
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The fact that it appeals to me, despite that i'm over 20, or to someone elce that is say, over 40, doesn't mean a thing.
Bingo .
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I agree. One Piece is made for the enjoyment of everyone. In Japan, I think things like blood and a main charecter smoking aren't looked upon as they are in America. One Piece is classic boys manga as evidenced by its overall playfulness and style, but yet it has dramatic everyday themes that relate to everyone, such as protecting the ones you care about and never give up. Also Death Note, which is a tad bit darker, is run in the same magazine as One Piece, and I dont exactly think thats a kid's manga.
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One Piece is targeted at those who enjoy it. Not anybody else.
As to Kaku's devils fruit, I think only Oda knows what it is, and when we find out, it's going to crack us up at being so ludicrus. After all, it was described as a "weird fruit."
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if all of a sudden 10 million parents who sit and watch Teletubbies with their children go on records saying they like it, does that make it a show made for all ages? NO!
One Piece was clearly written at the beginning for young kids and though the maturity has been cranked up tenfold, it's still written for younger minds.
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It kind of irks me to see dark and serious being associated with mature. It's not like when you grow up you will lost your sense of humor or anything. But, yeah, I don't think it has to be said anymore but I'll say it anyway: One Piece is a kids' comic but you can still enjoy it nevertheless.
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then japanese kids are more mature than american kids, all the crap they cut out of the dub version can fill the grand canyon.
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@e1n:
if you notice the enies lobby map that oda had back when sogeking was still separated from the rest of the crew, you'll notice that on lucci's profile oda put his neko neko no mi type as JACKAL instead of LEOPARD.
scroll down to lucci's picture and notice below his douriki it says: neko neko no mi: moderu jakkaru, not moderu reoparudo.
ocean told me about this and was wondering if oda had made a mistake and instead put jyabura's akuma no mi model.
i'm not convinced that oda put it in… i have a feeling it's something the folks at jump made without him. it's not part of any chapter...
ooshi78
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One Piece can be dark and mature at times (Looks at the Galley-La HQ attck) But it gets light and humoruos at time so One Piece may be a kid comic but it's made for everyone.
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wow, checking about jackals in the African Wildlife Fund site, there were some interesting things:
The jackal, a medium-sized carnivore with doglike features and a bushy tail
The black-backed jackal is easily recognized by the mantle of black hair on the back that contrasts with the rust-colored body.
Leopards, hyenas and eagles are jackals' most feared predators
There was some other stuff that matched the profile of Jyabura, this may actually be true, you know…
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Naruto lately has dragged the fights out from week to week. But I wouldnt call it boring. IF u read the whole fight, back to back, it is quite good. Just sucks waiting week to week.
One piece loads much more in each chapter than Naruto does.
One piece is aimed at kids. Just because it have fighting and people wanting to die, means nothing. Most cartoons have that type of stuff as well. Nobody ever dies in One piece either, unlike other cartoons or animes.
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@ysn:
There was some other stuff that matched the profile of Jyabura, this may actually be true, you know…
The problem is that there was already a Jackal Fruit user back in Alabasta.
Not to mention that the ookami symbol make it all but certain that he's a wolf-type. Personally, I was hoping for something a bit more unusual like a dhole.
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aff, forgot abot this, would have been a nice little spoil, though.
Anyways, dog/wolf would be fun with Usop's rotten egg move or spice move :)
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then japanese kids are more mature than american kids
Because they can handle a series as light in nature as OP?? Every anthropologist in the World just shed a single tear.
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@omae:
Because they can handle a series as light in nature as OP?? Every anthropologist in the World just shed a single tear.
Indeed. There are still some channels that don't insult the intellligence of our younger brethren. With stupidity here in the U.S. soaring more and more each day, I guess that these networks don't want to take chances.
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@ysn:
aff, forgot abot this, would have been a nice little spoil, though.
Anyways, dog/wolf would be fun with Usop's rotten egg move or spice move :)
Don't forget fire phoneix star, and Usopp may have many other crative stars like that. Oh some Dials would be nice
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One Piece is alot like Harry Potter. It was originally written as a children's story, but as it has gotten older it has matured, become alot darker, and become a story that people of any age can enjoy…...
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One Piece is alot like Harry Potter. It was originally written as a children's story, but as it has gotten older it has matured, become alot darker, and become a story that people of any age can enjoy…...
No, it's still for kids. One Piece does not mature like Harry Potter, There is still humorous and light part in One Piece. Look at Wanze, he looks like he came from the the Buggy arc but he appeared in chapter 369 and it was late in the series. Arlong arc and Kuro arc has mature contant yet they were early in the series and if OP has matured like HP, why did Spandam have that funny shocked face? Why did Fukurou have a zipper mouth? Why does Baskerville have deformed bodies? Oda does not care about his aging fans, he cares about all fans young and old unlike and he makes his manga for people to enjoy. Oda does not have to follow his fan's aging, he just have to make the series good. The series had always been a mixture of serious/funny and dark/light content for many years. Olny the art changed but not the story, the story remainds the same.
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Which nicely fits in with my theory that Oda had initially planned something much simpler and slowly gained the courage to include more complicated themes. I didn't like the beginning of the manga, really, until they arrived in Arlong Park (please don't flame me, I have corrected my ways). Nami's flashback was the first anime sequence to make me cry, ever. But it's not after they reached Loguetown that things really started to spice up and Oda introduced the OP dynamic that we know and love.
I wonder if Oda already has the whole story planned out already, or if he just has a vague idea of what story arcs are coming up next (since I think it's pretty obvious that he hadn't planned to make things this complicated when he started drawing One Piece).Just my views… (again, be merciful...)
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@Monkey:
Which nicely fits in with my theory that Oda had initially planned something much simpler and slowly gained the courage to include more complicated themes. I didn't like the beginning of the manga, really, until they arrived in Arlong Park (please don't flame me, I have corrected my ways). Nami's flashback was the first anime sequence to make me cry, ever. But it's not after they reached Loguetown that things really started to spice up and Oda introduced the OP dynamic that we know and love.
I wonder if Oda already has the whole story planned out already, or if he just has a vague idea of what story arcs are coming up next (since I think it's pretty obvious that he hadn't planned to make things this complicated when he started drawing One Piece).Just my views… (again, be merciful...)
I pretty much agree actually.. I came into One Piece through the anime, not the manga, but it wasn't til Nami ran off that I went like "hey.. wait.. now something feels a bit more than just a kiddie show! What is this?"… a bit later I was hooked.
And if we look at water 7 now, it's the most "mature" arc so far.. had dark moments for quite a while, but Oda is still Oda as we can clearly see now with the whole "keys"-scheme and stuff, haha :P
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There's nothing dark or mature about One Piece. There was a time when the crew split up and got into a huge fight. Ooh.
If you show that to an 8 year-old they won't start growing hair 'down there' and start smelling awful.
It was sad for long-time readers and it was difficult to see where the story was headed but the only thing dark about it was the ink.
Now, I will say that anyone is entitled to their opinion of what dark is of course, but if you consider OP dark or mature then it just shows you've got a few more comics to go through before you know what dark and mature really are.
And although I got hooked during the Arlong arc as well, it wasn't because the story was shockingly mature, because it was really just a Bambi story, but because of how Oda showed that he wasn't writing a story that just went from point a to point b like so many before it.
I'll consider OP dark and mature when we start to see acid-induced scenes like this
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If you compare with the start of One Piece, then the 'dark moments' in Water 7 were with the Usopp thing right on top of the Robin thing etc.. where for quite a while everyone was dead serious and Luffy wasn't joking around. This won't happen in an all kiddie show, there everyone'll always be laughing. It kinda made me feel like "come on Luffy, say something stupid, so I know it's still you!"
So yeah, it's not dark as compared to an anime/manga like Monster or anything, just compared to the rest of the show. Which is most definately a transgression Oda is making. (ie he's putting in a lot more 'deep stuff' than at the initial start)
(also note I didn't say something like "this is totally mature" but rather "the most mature arc so far")
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Since Kuro slashed the hell out of Merry's face not even a full year after starting, I beg to differ that OP was any different then than it is now. We see the same kind of stuff happening, just in different ways.
Like I mentioned, Bambi's mom got SHOT AND KILLED OMFG! And yet that remains a shining example of a children's film.
Some people have said it quite well in the last few posts. OP is written for anyone who has the ability to read it. That includes children and adults. I would never contend that it is a comic made only for children. How the series has changed, is that it is now dealing with a lot more on the table. The story is remarkably complex at this point and there are so many things set in motion that it takes all of us collectively to keep track of it. But the series certainly hasn't suddenly changed its direction or more importantly lost the soul it started with.
If it did I know I wouldn't be reading it now.
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@jackvance:
If you compare with the start of One Piece, then the 'dark moments' in Water 7 were with the Usopp thing right on top of the Robin thing etc.. where for quite a while everyone was dead serious and Luffy wasn't joking around. This won't happen in an all kiddie show, there everyone'll always be laughing. It kinda made me feel like "come on Luffy, say something stupid, so I know it's still you!"
So yeah, it's not dark as compared to an anime/manga like Monster or anything, just compared to the rest of the show. Which is most definately a transgression Oda is making. (ie he's putting in a lot more 'deep stuff' than at the initial start)
(also note I didn't say something like "this is totally mature" but rather "the most mature arc so far")
Yeah, The gloomy Luffy died out after Nami save him from Aqua Laguna. Luffy laughed at Zoro after hearing he was stuck in the chimney. Soge King was another light-hearted situation so as Wanze. Luffy was even smiling after he rushed in Enies Lobby frist, he seems happy. Now, they are playing another light-hearted game with the keys
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@omae:
Now, I will say that anyone is entitled to their opinion of what dark is of course, but if you consider OP dark or mature then it just shows you've got a few more comics to go through before you know what dark and mature really are.
You misunderstand what I was saying. It has become darker and more mature SINCE IT BEGAN. Which is why I used Harry Potter as an example. It started out as a kid's story, and still is a kids story and has many light hearted moments. But it is not the same happy-go-lucky adventures of their first year, it is definately alot more darker and mature than the first book…..
The same applies for One Piece. The story began with humorous villans and themes, but as the story has continued those themes have been explored in a more serious manner. Sure, there are still humorous and light hearted moments and villans (Fukurou, Wanze, finding the right key, etc.), and that is and will always be a part of Oda and OP's style. But you cannot compare the happy-go-lucky adventures in the East Blue (maybe excluding the Arlong Arc) with the events of the Grand Line (especially the current arc and Buster Call flashback)......
And I know that One Piece is nowhere near as dark as other stories. I mean, my avatar/screenname comes from Kill Bill, which is pretty tame by my standards...... ;)
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Actually it's getting better and better. It most definately still has the "Oda soul".. as he shows time and again, but like hell I wouldn't still be following One Piece if it was still as "kiddy" as at the start.
For reference, a friend of mine who I kinda forced to watch the whole thing, telling him to go on even if he didn't like it, that it'd get better, he said he didn't start liking it until the crew got to the grand line. He said "the humour and everything suddenly kinda changed, and it became really good".
And slashing a ship or whatever doesn't make it a mature show.. neither does someone dying.. it's the flow of emotion portrayed by the characters in a show and the general atmosphere that do. And Water7 had a lot more of this than before.. if you can't see that.. well.. doesn't really matter.. it's what I perceived (and liked) anyway.
@Joekido:
Yeah, The gloomy Luffy died out after Nami save him from Aqua Laguna. Luffy laughed at Zoro after hearing he was stuck in the chimney. Soge King was another light-hearted situation so as Wanze. Luffy was even smiling after he rushed in Enies Lobby frist, he seems happy. Now, they are playing another light-hearted game with the keys
Yeah, totally.. it's back to 'the way it always has been', and to me that's all the more compelling BECAUSE OF the intermittent darker moments. They had their crisis, they didn't know what would happen, their crew seemed to be falling apart piece by piece.. yet they pulled together and now they've refound their direction and purpose and are at it with full force again. Playing this funny keys-game ^^
@black:But it is not the same happy-go-lucky adventures of their first year, it is definately alot more darker and mature than the first book…..
Yeah agreed.. inter-crew betrayal and problems of this level (Usopp and Robin) would never happen in a pure kiddie show, to name one thing.
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You misunderstand what I was saying. It has become darker and more mature SINCE IT BEGAN.
Which is why I used an example of Kuro in my post. Kuro was a pretty mean mofo but some of his attitude gets outshined by the rather unique individuals he used to surround himself with. Hypnotizing one of your crew and sending them to get killed? I dunno that's pretty grim material right there and no much different from what we see happening now in the series. It's definitely no Harry Potter. Harry Potter went from British people doing wizard things to being downright gruesome in that latest film. Whatever grim elements or moments of sadness that exist in OP have always been in place, just in different forms. Another fine example of this would be Kuina's story. People have always died in OP (in flashbacks ^O^) and tensions have always been high.
Now if you were to argue that the stakes are higher, that I would have to agree with. Before it was 'save the people of the town because it would be a nice thing to do' whereas here it's 'save our friend or she could die and we're becoming enemies of the World'.
Those are apples and oranges right there. But the way the story is unfolding and the inevitable outcome (see sig) isn't really anything terribly different. They've always been fighting like cowboys and Indians but this time they're fighting for the life of a friend rather than to kill some time. I wouldn't call that more mature because in each episode of Batman he does the same thing yet his latest animated adventure isn't exactly going to win any awards. (or at least it shouldn't)
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I think that in Usopp's fight with Jyabura, his Sogeking mask will break. Then, he'll have to go back to Luffy, and explain. I can see a scene like this:
Luffy: Hey Usopp, where's Sogeking?
Usopp: Oh, he went back to the Island of Snipers.
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I think there is a fundamental difference that is not being addressed in the maturity discussion. It's not whether or not the One Piece story is mature, but how the characters have matured. As many folks have mentioned, the story has ebbed and flowed in terms of violence and comedy. However, the growth that we, the readers, see is from Oda's awesome character development. He keeps adding new layers of depth to each character whether it be a tragic past or a new discovery (or just "layering" Nami and Robin's cup sizes). We learn about the Oda-verse as they do (especially through the eyes of someone like Chopper who is new to the "outside world") and as they explore and learn about it, we do too.
It sounds a heck of alot like "Dora the Explorer" and One Piece would probably work great as edu-tainment if put in the right context. People are constantly trying to apply their knowledge and put two and two together to guess Oda's next move. If you don't think you are in that category, ask yourself how many times you have tried to draw a map of the Grand Line or make a' D' family tree or just speculate on a forum like this one. It's all part of the stimulating the synthesis part of your brain and establishing empathy with the characters.
You see them learn and mature and you feel personal growth in your own way (people do the same thing when they play RPG video games). The maturity of the characters has increased, but the plot has retained the same range of maturity it always has.
In my mind, One Piece is on the same level with "The Incredibles". The ratio of action to jokes is similar and the situations will make anyone from three to one hundred giggle or gasp with equal propensity. However, the movie has a solid 'G' rating. There is a mature, deep sub-context to the story, but it is wrapped in the fuzzy blanket of a Saturday morning cartoon. The characters clearly mature from when the film begins in terms of experience and you cheer for the family at the end for their accomplishments.
Going back to my last post, d3adpool was right about my views on the Bullseye-style fruit. I was thinking in terms of the Daredevil villain
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(comics)). However, I actually think Freddy Licorice had a pretty good idea going with his version of the fruit (especially with the modified comic and obligatory "Family Guy" quote). It doesn't quite fit the "weird fruit" category that Jyabura mentioned though. I'll have to think more on what the heck the fruit could be…..or just wait patiently for 401 to roll in from the coast. -
Thanks to you, Owner Zeff, I now have these words stuck in my brain:
"Nami no swiping, Nami no swiping, Nami no swiping!"
"Aw, man…"But I understood where you were coming from, so I forgive you. BTW, does the scenario in the Justice Administration building remind anyone else of Muscle Tower from DragonBall? Or maybe someone mentioned that already...
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Man I can't wait for Sogeking v.s. Jyabuya and Sanji v.s. Califa :D
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@_Meh_:
Thanks to you, Owner Zeff, I now have these words stuck in my brain:
"Nami no swiping, Nami no swiping, Nami no swiping!"
"Aw, man…"You win, sir. You win.
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@_Meh_:
Thanks to you, Owner Zeff, I now have these words stuck in my brain:
"Nami no swiping, Nami no swiping, Nami no swiping!"
"Aw, man…"But I understood where you were coming from, so I forgive you. BTW, does the scenario in the Justice Administration building remind anyone else of Muscle Tower from DragonBall? Or maybe someone mentioned that already...
hmm yeah this tower seems to remind me a lot of Dragonball's red ribbon tower scene (where Goku goes around and pwns everyone…though we know that Luffy won't have that easy of a time taking out Lucci as Goku did taking out the head of Red Ribbon)
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hmm yeah this tower seems to remind me a lot of Dragonball's red ribbon tower scene (where Goku goes around and pwns everyone…though we know that Luffy won't have that easy of a time taking out Lucci as Goku did taking out the head of Red Ribbon)
That has to be my favorite part of the Dragonball series. It was so awesome!
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@omae:
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT
Something to keep in mind, recall what happened during Alabasta what with Usopp meeting Mr. 2 but the fight switching.
And by that I don't mean it will happen to Usopp again, but we could be in for more than X VS X.
yup i have thought of that too. But personally i do not wish to see that. I hope that they can fight and defeat whoever they are matched up (as in chpt 400) on their own w/o help from another character like chopper. I prefer chopper to go and save robin. Someone has to do that. Otherwise whats e point of getting the key?
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yup and otherwise what would be the point of having two cp9 with devil fruit power taking her away ?:p.. chopper and luffy definitelly need to fight for robin
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Maybe Kaku ate the Kaku Kaku no Mi. (Break Fruit). Which would mean if Zoro sliced him, he'd break Zoro's Katanas. So Zoro would be faced with a dilemma.
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hell usopp's whole character is under 16 appeal, even now.
If that were true, why is it that most younger kids seem to really hate Usopp and most of the biggest Usopp fans I run into are 20+? He's probably one of the best developed characters in the whole series. And that's not just fangirlism talking.
Man, Sabret00the, it just sounds like you want to take the fun out of One Piece. I like the characters the way they are, I don't want them to "grow up", whatever the hell that means. Kind of reminds me of how a lot of kids in later childhood decide that they can't watch stuff like Loony Toons anymore because it's too kiddish…only to realize that the appeal is universal once they get older and all the stuff that they thougth was "cool" and "adult" is just a façade.
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I'm 24 and I like Usopp. Oh and I still watch Looney Tunes so does that makes me immature? No. I don't need to be trying to be cool to be mature. Usopp is one of my favorite character and I don't want him to be to mature and dark.
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@omae:
Now if you were to argue that the stakes are higher, that I would have to agree with. Before it was 'save the people of the town because it would be a nice thing to do' whereas here it's 'save our friend or she could die and we're becoming enemies of the World'.
This is more what I'm talking about. But whether or not OP is dark wasn't really the main point of my argument. I was saying that OP is a kids manga, yet can be universally enjoyed…..
And on a side note, you reminded me that the beginning had some pretty gruesome moments too. Kuro (especially Shakushi) and Nami's flashback were the darkest moments that I can remember.
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@Senshi:
I think that in Usopp's fight with Jyabura, his Sogeking mask will break. Then, he'll have to go back to Luffy, and explain. I can see a scene like this:
Luffy: Hey Usopp, where's Sogeking?
Usopp: Oh, he went back to the Island of Snipers.
ROFL!
Speaking of Jyabura vs. Sogeking, I pretty much think that the violence & comedy will be equal, I mean come on, ya know Sogeking's gonna wet his pants seeing a 15 foot dog/jackal/hyena/whatever, right?
As for Nami vs. Kumadori, here's how I think it'll go:
Kumadori hits Nami~
Kumadori: Yoiyoiyoi~ I have disgraced the warrior's code by attacking a woman! I shall commit Sepuku to repent for my sins!
Kuamdori does a Sepuku & dies
Nami: Wow that was fast ¬_¬;…