@cooldud_21:
Oh, I am so done discussing this with you. This is my final post to this topic in reply to you in the hope that you finally see some of my argument, although I highly doubt it.
Taking up your theme of deconstruction, you sound like a child with a miniscule attention span. So far, your argument consists of "logic, mathematics, nyaa nyaa" with hands clapped firmly over your eyes. Oh, and also "don't second guess Oda, who knows what he has planned for the future?" There. A two line summary of every post you've written in response to my posts.
First, Fishman Island lies midway between Paradise and the New World. All your talk of balance between the two seas and the mathematics thereof goes down the toilet right there. You have not responded anything in response to my comparison, which compares the marines' strength and their ruthlessness at different periods of time, not space. The argument is simple: Sakazuki is the fleet admiral and from what we have heard about his actions (moving headquarters to the New World, and Jimbe's quote, "Led by Fleet Admiral Sakazuki, the marine HQ is an even more powerful army of justice"), the marines are more powerful than they were before. That's it. Simple.
Second, pirates have always been competing with the marines. You have the entire marine command structure with Garp and Sengoku facing off against pirates like Roger, Newgate and Shiki. You have sophisticated attack strategies like the Buster Call in place, as demonstrated by Ohara. All this indicates that the struggle for power was very much existent even in the times of Roger. Also, arguments do not lead to facts, it is the other way around. Also, Luffy will never have fleets like Newgate. Or do you need to be reminded of the title of the most hated thread on this forum, "Last two nakamates". Luffy will have a crew of 10 + himself, and this is Oda's plan from the very beginning of this manga.
Lastly, my point has been that this is uncharacteristic of a person like Luffy who moves on completely from an island after he's finished his business there, as opposed to leaving his name behind. Declaring Fishman Island his territory is uncharacteristic of what we have seen from Luffy till now. This is more of a Newgate kind of move than a Roger kind of move, and goes against the "Luffy is Roger Mk II" thing all the characters love to say.
Well…all this debate just confirmed the two suspicions that i had in mind when i saw other people replying to your posts in this thread.
First:you tend to treat VERY PROBABLE things as ABSOLUTELY IMINENT. This trace of yours denotes a deficient capacity of logical reasoning, because, unlike me, you tend to treat 97% as 100%... not as 97%. For example:you said that 'Luffy will NEVER have fleets like Newgate'. There's a huge difference between 'VERY PROBABLY will not have' and 'will NEVER have'.In fact,once you confuses both,you start to treat things that are just VERY PROBABLE as ABSOLUTELY IMINENT...and then,you suddenly start to turn something that is essentially speculative into a fact. An earthquake may happen tomorrow in my town? It's VERY PROBABLE that it won't..but it's ABSOLUTELY IMINENT that it won't? NO.
See?That's what a rational argument truly is: it always treats 100% as 100%...not as 97%. Because once you forget those 3%, you start to apply sentimental aspects into something that must be purely rational and open spaces for errors. And it must be frustrating to you,but the truth is: 97% will never be 100%...no matter how hard you try. So,it's very funny to see you talk that 'arguments don't lead to facts,it's the other way around' when you like to use things that are NOT EVEN facts - since they DIDN'T happen YET and are just VERY PROBABLE, not ABSOLUTELY IMINENT- as basis for your arguments.Paradoxical,un?
Second suspicion that I confirmed: you're very INATTENTIVE -at least with the things that the other say to you.You focus too much in your own view,and don't watch the others' with same care. You analyzed carelessly what i said for more than once...and dropped into useless conclusions based on these same incomplete analysis. Let me show you an example related to my last post:I said we don't know exactly WHEN pirates and GOVERNMENT -not merely the marines,as you said- started competing with each other AND making places their turfs. When i said this, i implied that we don't know wich one came first(pirates or government) and when their competition for territories -TURFS- started ... but,you simply ignored the part where i talked about 'turfs' and started to reply my point based on an incomplete perspective of what i said.This trace of yours, unfortunately, is worse than the first one,and basically turns any attempt of maieutics simply useless.
Now,for my grand-finale, i will give you an example of you committing BOTH mistakes that i raised above AT THE SAME TIME. You say in your post that 'Luffy will have a crew of 10 + himself, and this is Oda's plan from the very beginning of this manga.'.The problem is: he didn't say he would have 10 + himself...he said he would have AT LEAST 10 + himself! Let me repeat again for you,because I know you aren't exactly attentive:the manga says that Luffy wanted AT LEAST 10 crewmembers.(If you doubt, go read the 'Romance Dawn' official translation and see by yourself).
So...here we can behold the second mistake that you tend to make when you discuss something:your INATTENTION when you read something -in this case,the own freaking manga- and your habit of dropping conclusions based on your negligent analysis. But, let's not forget the first mistake that you tend to make when you discuss here:your habit of treating things that are just VERY PROBABLE as ABSOLUTELY IMINENT. Assuming that you were right -which you aren't, according to what i showed above- and Luffy said that he wanted just 10 crewmembers...which garantees you have that this would NEVER EVER change later? It is impossible to accept that Oda could change his mind about this, thus, changing the final number of crew members? The fact that Luffy had said so automatically imply that it will necessarily happen?Yeah,yeah...it's VERY PROBABLE, but...not ABSOLUTELY IMINENT. Unfortunately,for you, both things have the same meaning...i really don't know why you tend to think this way...if it's for laziness or whatever...but,well: it's useless to waste any time speculating about abstract things like these.
And...that's it. I'm also done.
I'm not the first nor the last that reply to your posts in this thread disagreeing with them, but at least my suspicions were confirmed and now, unfortunatelly, i'm certain that it's useless to keep discussing with you.With that in mind,i have no more reason to waste my time with this discussion nor will hold any kind of grudge against you.
So, goodbye and a Happy New Year to you.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@brennen.exe:
Pardon me for chiming in here without bothering to read the rest of the argument– cut me some slack, I'm on break at work!-- but I don't think it is out of character for Luffy at all simply because of the way it went down. Ever since Saboady, the point has been hammered in that Luffy wants power to protect who and whatever he wants to protect. Against Hody, we saw that he had the desire to protect Fishman Island, but he didn't explicitly state that the place was his territory because at the time, it wasn't necessary. In that regard, yeah, it would be out of character for Luffy to arbitrarily claim an island is his. When challenged, however, Luffy always does the opposite of what he is told, so naturally he would boast about kicking their ass and taking what is theirs, particularly when it involves the island he just risked his life to protect.
Take Arabasta, for example. Imagine they were under Kaidou's rule and not aligned with the World Government. Had he taken down Crocodile only to find Kaidou coming to destroy it, clamoring about it being his territory, wouldn't Luffy do the same? "I'll kick your ass and make it mine!" It's not charity, Luffy is selfishly protecting whatever he feels like, for his own reasons and nothing more.
16 characters of I totally agree with you, even still missing Aohige.
