@Urouge:

I've said multiple times that I believe that Zoro doesn't like to cut women, or has a soft spot for them, or however you want to say it, which is all that page demonstrates. He certainly won't do so unnecessarily. But when it comes down to it, he'll still do what he has to.

I'm not ignoring anything. It's just that I factored in Zoro's history before I ever made my first post in this thread.

So why can't we just end the discussion with Zoro taking it easy on Women and be done with it, then continuing defending him by saying it's not just that!! its also Zoro doesn't like to fight weak people when it "might" be that or maybe it can't, or it's a new arrogant trait he developed…

What is obviously clear is that Zoro takes it easy on women...
Why do we need to indulge further and bring up his fight with Hyozu, when that isn't so clear.

@Urouge:

Thinking back to a week ago. Zoro not directly attacking Monet because she was a woman was heavily on my mind. The thing is, Tashigi never really entered the equation for me, which in retrospect seems crazy. And now that I think about why, it's obvious. Sanji's arrival was imminent, and it dominated my focus to the point where Tashigi became invisible to me. It acted as one of the most effective smokescreens in quite a while. I think the setup for this has been deeper than I first realized.

@Gizmo, What I find curious is how you can tip-toe around the sledgehammer of an argument that is the parallels to the Hyouzou fight at this point. You totally ignore it in this post to the point of not even acknowledging it, when it basically acts as proof that Zoro's actions aren't based on the gender of his opponent.

! so are we completely going to ignore this?

@gotta<3OP:

http://www.mangareader.net/103-2219-18/one-piece/chapter-112.html PRETTY GIRL GETTING BEAT UP. And he's the pretty girl that even has a fandom in-universe (iirc there was something about that in one SBS)

So stop saying pretty girls won't get punched.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

But I should talk about the actual chapter... My first thoughts were: Luffy needs to raise the bar... Smoker and Zoro are way badass. And he's still in goofy mode. I'm just dying to see him fighting at his best with no interference.

@gotta<3OP:

http://www.mangareader.net/103-2219-18/one-piece/chapter-112.html PRETTY GIRL GETTING BEAT UP. And he's the pretty girl that even has a fandom in-universe (iirc there was something about that in one SBS)

So stop saying pretty girls won't get punched.

If go down this path, this weeks discussion will end up like last weeks. I've explained those things before.

Luffy Punching the shit out of Vivi is something which is debatable and even justified.
Luffy hitting Vivi(on Going Merry) is Scolding bad people. Luffy Punching Miss Valentine is comic relief.
Also it is only Luffy who does these things because Oda also has given Luffy a Childish character.

Luffy has no such issues unlike Sanji or Zoro who hesitates. The only thing is Oda willing to show this issue Seriously or not, and I believe he will not. Its just how people think in different parts of the world. Oda's Presentation of Zoro's character is honorable in my opinion, its a good thing he goes easy on women.

Imagine an author who hates vilolence on women sending a message that hitting women is alright…
When Oda wants us to hate a villain he pretty much makes us see him beating the shit out of a woman. Those types of characters are the most HATED in this manga.
This same author cannot send a message of having his male "Good Moral" characters hitting women.
Oda goes above and beyond to show this.

The Big problem here is, like I've been saying there's a double standard here. "pretty" women vs. "unattractive" women
We see how differently both are treated.

@DarkHamster:

"and Tashigi got to Monet first"
That's speculation, we don't know that he would've finished Monet off. All evidence from the chapter = no he would not (speculation also/my opinion).

I say that he would, Its just what CCC said "I don't want to slap a bitch, but if she gets out of line, then I will."

The only thing is Oda will never show this especially for a "pretty" girl.
Now a Unattractive girl would not require Oda to cop out from having his "Good Moral Male" from landing the finishing blow.

I did say “I don’t plan on discussing this issue any further than this” in my first post but……
It just seems like that many of you are ignoring or just refusing to accept some things that have occurred in the manga concerning this issue. It’s like your pretending it never happened.
The hell with it, I’m back in… I do enjoy being the “Bad Guy”.

Most of you are not seeing this from a reader’s perspective. You’re all focused on from the characters perspective.
I’ve said before in the previous chapter thread the following.

Zoro would fight women but wouldn't seriously hurt them unless he has to.
We have Zoro crushing the head of Miss Monday. He did hit the Nun and her kid too.

I think Zoro was about to get serious when the Marines where getting hit.

Edit: I guess we need to have a gauge of this "fighting women" thing.

Luffy would beat the shit out of women…
Zoro would only fight them when he has to but wouldn't seriously injure them. Unless if your Miss Monday.
Sanji would die before hitting women even if the situation demands it.

Its obviously set up for Tashigi to come up and remind Zoro that he shouldn't hold back against Women. He does walk the middle road like I said.
Also I seriously doubt he lacks the training and discipline to control his own power and techniques.

Edit:Like I said some of things Zoro has done to Women could make his character contradictory.
The fact remains that this is no screw up from Oda, Zoro takes it easy on women. Even if he hit a few before.
He walks the Middle Road.

Now if your only seeing the recent events from a Characters perspective(Zoro) then you will be left confused due to Zoro’s Vagueness on this matter.

• Miss Monday Crushing
• “She’s a Woman”
• Zoro scratching Monet.
• Zoro saying there are things he doesn’t want to cut (Women) but will do it if he has to.
• Zoro’s Vagueness in this matter.

Zoro is capable of hitting women. He has hit Miss Monday and now put a Scratch on Monet.
Two things should be noted.

• Zoro character could be contradictory or hypocritical given what we have.

• From Unrequited–

  Somehow Miss Monday's worth fighting and yet Monet isn't? Miss Monday only attacked Zoro, and he just shrugged of the attack. On the other hand Monet stabbed Robin and set her sights on Nami, Chopper, and the rest of the children. If anything it'd make sense for Zoro to be chivalrous against Miss Monday where all damage is voluntarily received. And instead attack Monet as his chivalry would be at the expense of his friends' lives. It's backwards. He showed cruelty to one and yet not to another arbitrarily.

The following which most of you are using to defend your claims doesn’t hold weight.
From Robby“Zoro saw his opponent as weak and didn't need to go all out.” Is CLEARLY not the issue here!
Monet being a Woman is. Also take into account that this is after his Speech to take the NEW WORLD SERIOUSLY. Holding back against someone weak was never an issue before for him. He would destroy them. Miss Monday/BW, Hodi, Franky Family,
Zoro has one shotted plenty of weak people before without giving them a chance. Steven Hyde and Coruscation Explain it better.

zoro behaving like mihawk, for not bothering with weaklings. the first thing we came to know of mihawk is that he is pretty vicious and easily agitated, example destroying the krieg fleet because they were in the way. he's definitely not lenient on weaklings, otherwise he wouldn't have followed the krieg pirates to the east blue to again destroy the ship they have left. also, when toying with zoro, he did it for his own amusement, not because he pitied him. only when he saw something more in zoro than weakness he showed him mercy.

zoro not being afraid to use haki on monet. people want to prove this with zoro giving her a scratch on her cheek, a scratch. yes, merciless. and zoro not using haki on his actual move was pretty lame. which brings us to people saying he didn't use haki, because he would have killed her. then use a less powerful move, but with haki, and with the back of his sword, like he normally does.

As for the Zoro holding back debate I'll only say this: even if Oda is trying to go for some "I won't cut weak people" thing, it's poorly implemented, out of character and out of nowhere. Like Mihawk, you say? The Mihawk who cut down 49 ships worth of people solely to kill his own boredom? Mihawk who faced Okamas utterly weak to him and sliced them down without batting an eyelid. Daz Bones got in his way and got cut down in an instant for it. The times that Zoro has mercilessly, unhesitatingly sliced up countless weak goons for no other reason than them attacking him first and being enemies are so many it would take an essay to recount them.

If we are all of a sudden meant to buy that Zoro will go easy on and let off some weak people, even though they are enemies and they attack him and his friends, that's a very awkward development that doesn't make much sense. He cut up soldiers in Neptune's palace. Might not have enjoyed it, but did it without hesitating, because that's how he's always been, despite them not even truly being enemies. Training with Mihawk didn't change his nature. He didn't inherit the "go easy on the other guy/handicap himself to emphasize the difference" trait from his master. That was something he did in his first fight ever. But it never stopped from slicing Cabaji right up, or from slicing any other enemy right up. Yet all of a sudden he dicks around against both Monet and Hyouzou. Oda for some reason thought it was a good idea to have Zoro do the same exact thing for two arcs in a row. And yes, I'm branding the Hyouzou situation as well a fiasco. It's out of character for Zoro. You can say that he's merely changed and become a truckload more arrogant which somehow leads to him, sometimes anyway, not want to hurt weaker people, but such a sudden, uncalled for change doesn't make sense either. If the idea is that he's become more like Mihawk, there is no reason to let those two weaklings off the hook when Mihawk didn't against such individuals as Daz Bones and the Okama. So though some of you might think Oda did no wrong, I'm not buying that argument. This whole trend of having Zoro awkwardly dick around just so we can drag the fights out a little longer isn't a good thing.

Also what many of you are misunderstanding is that I’m NOT Calling Zoro a Sexist. Maybe he is maybe his not… and I don’t want to get into that.

I’m Calling Oda’s Portrayal of women in a biased or Prejudiced fashion especially behavior and attitude in “Good Moral” males towards unattractive females. This is what I call Sexist.
The real Issue here is Execution from the Author. Looking it at from this perspective you will see the problems with this issue.
Like I’ve said in my post above.

Luffy would beat the shit out of women.
Zoro would only fight them when he has to but wouldn't seriously injure them.
Sanji would die before hitting women even if the situation demands it.

If the reason is there Luffy is capable of beating up any women, pretty or Ugly don’t matter.
Sanji would rather die, even if the situation demands it.

Zoro’s portrayal so far is contradictory. Zoro has crushed a woman before without hesitation. Now he has issues fighting another. Zoro Certainly has problems with hitting women. We can see that with his dialogue with Tashigi at Louge town, his comment to Enel, and this recent development. If Zoro has no Issues with fighting women then why make Zoro comment on Enel’s actions, or hav this current conflict. He even says it… "There are things I don't want to cut" His talking about Women...
Given a reason I know Zoro is capable of fighting a female attractive or not and seriously hurting her but he will not get to do that. Oda will not show it.

The Problem is Oda’s portrayal of any fight involving a “pretty girl” is handled with extreme leniency for the pretty damsel compared to a beastly or unattractive female. The issue of hitting a “Pretty” girl is discussed or shown in such a copout fashion by Oda so much so that it’s laughable and it only arises when a “Good Moral Male” is about to fight a “pretty” girl; a not so attractive girl never gets this conflict shown to her or even such leniency.

Usopp vs. Perona – Oda coping out of having Usopp hit Perona
Sanji vs. Kalifa – “Even if it kills me I refuse to kick a woman.”
Zoro vs. Monet – Oda coping out again of having a “Good Moral Male” hitting a woman. (Even if his capable though while having issues nonetheless)
While the “Good Moral character” never goes through such conflict when his against a “non attractive” girl. Or she’s not even shown any mercy like that with Perona.
Zoro vs. Miss Monday – Skull crush.
Mr.4 Pair vs. Chopper and Usopp- the mole woman was delivered as a baseball on top of Choppers horns and hit with a 4 ton bat. (No leniency for the old hag there)

Luffy is the only one who has no issue in his character with striking women from our longest known main cast. Though Oda will probably never have him hit a “Pretty Women” unless it’s comic relief or some similar Vivi motivation.
I take his Portrayal of unattractive women as gags even though it’s sexist. The fact that these things exist in the manga is something you can’t deny, we have more than enough evidence to support this. This is my main concern for you guys who refuse to acknowledge that these things exist. I don’t find it offensive and no disrespect to those that seriously do. This is a Fictional comic book and some things could be offensive but tolerable to others. Also in some Cultures Stereotypes or portrayal of some things are seen as gags, which I think is the case for this manga when it comes to few cases. It exists, it’s here and it will remain.

From Urouge

Just wait for it, Big Mam will power her crew up with DF powered breast milk.

Edit:Seriously though I do think she will have an ability which powers up her crew in some way.

@Counterdose:

Well, it’s rough after this chapter, but next time Zoro fights, we’ll learn that he’s actually been trained in “Hawkie.”

It’s not the same thing.

So Mihawk is Canadian?

@Cyclone_Baroness:

Yes. So let's not summon them, please?

kuchiyose no jutsu

!

I hope Vergo vs. smoker is resolved next before anything else.
waiting for Smoker to shine for quite a while.

Now I so want to see a Coby vs Lucci fight.
and
Kaku vs Helmeppo
before they encounter the Strawhats.