More of my obsession with these things on the side of the Giant Pirates ship that might mean nothing.
Official Egghead Thread
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Someone on Reddit counted the panel time:
THE TOP 30 CHARACTERS IN THE EGGHEAD ARC! (Chapters 1058 - 1124) (in terms of panel time):
TOP 10:
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Monkey D. Luffy - 599
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Jewelry Bonney - 576
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Bartholomew Kuma - 494
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Vegapunk - 491
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St. Jaygarcia Saturn - 297
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Sanji - 240
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Franky - 238
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Usopp - 219
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Nami - 208
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Borsalino (Kizaru) - 197
RUNNER-UPS:
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Tony Tony Chopper - 191
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Roronoa Zoro - 177
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Rob Lucci - 174
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Thousand Sunny - 169
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Jinbe - 167
THE REST:
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Punk-02 Lilith - 151
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Punk-01 Shaka - 146
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Nico Robin - 145
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Punk-05 Atlas - 143
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St. Marcus Mars - 114
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St. Topman Warcury - 107
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St. Ethan-Baron V. Nusjuro - 105
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Koby - 104
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Monkey D. Garp - 104
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Kaku - 102
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Emet - 99
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Sentomaru - 96
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Stussy - 92
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St. Shepherd Ju Peter - 88
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Brogy - 85
CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR:
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Brook - 84 (
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Punk-06 York - 84
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Sabo - 83
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Dorry - 81
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S-Snake - 80
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Marshall D. Teach (Blackbeard) - 75
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Monkey D. Dragon - 74
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Punk-04 Pythagoras - 72
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Buggy - 70
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Ginny - 69
og post: https://yy.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/1f0yc41/i_counted_every_panel_in_egghead_these_are_the/
Brook ranking lower than Brogy is crazy. Kinda weird that Sanji had so much focus this arc, Franky 3rd among Straw Hats seems fine. Flashbacks are so OP for panel count, getting just a few chapters of (near) exclusive focus and Kuma is ending up close(ish) to Luffy and Bonney who have been present for the entire arc. Other than that, nothing really stands out to me.
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This post is deleted!
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Wild that Brook was such a non-entity this arc. He lost to the fucking robot that only became a character ten chapters ago.
At least Franky wasn't sidelined. 3rd place among the SH isn't bad.
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New break, new re-read of Egghead.
I made it through the flashback until 1103, concluding with Kuma's return to Egghead. These are some really nice chapters when read in a single sitting and the story of little Bonney hit a soft spot for me. Kuma's youth is one sad treat, then later you can really feel the gang getting to know each other in the year or so they spend on Egghead, even Kizaru - who in retrospect has ample reason to want to save Bonney and Sentomarou. More than enough to slip Luffy some fruit at the speed of light and hope he will interfere with Saturn before the kids get hurt.
The only part that got me to rise an eyebrow was when everyone is doing the Nika rythm dance together - it feels kinda weird to see Kizaru do a little Nika celebration, unless only Bonney and Kuma know what tune they are dancing to.The later part of the flashback with Kuma's transformation is heart-wrenching, but I still think he is one huge idiot for not having grabbed Bonney & run the minute she was cured. Twice an opportunity came (first time on Egghead right after her operation is concluded, second time when she almost runs into him on some island), twice he ignored it. His daughter is the most important thing in the world, yet he was willing to let her be used as a hostage and be robbed of his free will, just because...what, exactly ? He gave his word ? I could argue he is afraid the navy/CP0 will pursue them, but this man has been on the run his whole life - as a slave, as a pirate, then as a revolutionary. This level of threat should have been nothing to him, and at that point he knew enough about the world government to be aware that anything would be better than letting Bonney in their hands. Kuma is really honest and kind to a fault; but maybe this is part of what makes him especially endearing.
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@Seafarer33 Personally, the flashback is the highest point of the arc. It's the best and most emotional writing Oda did in Egghead.
I agree with the issues you found, however I can kinda excuse Kuma keeping his word and not running away with Bonney because because he hoped she would always be a low-priority target for the Government as long as he kept his end of the bargain. This is the same reasoning he had to not marry Ginny, as he felt that would put a giant target on her head. Better to die without meeting Bonney than to condemn her to eternal persecution and the threat of slavery. It's Kuma's nature to sacrifice himself for the sake of others, and in this the writing is very consistent.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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@Deicide I can get behind that reasoning, for sure. Kuma sacrificing himself for the sake of others does work consistently throughout the flashback; up to the point where Vegapunk has finished her treatment, everything aligns perfectly and I support his decisions.
However, for me whatever hopes he may have held for his daughter's future don't quite excuse that he accepted to let her become a hostage. Especially considering everything he previously agreed to for her sake. That part wasn't self-sacrifice, it was putting Bonney in danger with no good reason. The moment agent Alpha cracked that rock and made her threat, I would have wanted Kuma to crush her then and there and vanish with his daughter. But... honest to a fault and foolishly naive, he was.
In other news, I completed my Egghead re-read.
Some parts flow better in one sitting, others are still just as bad. The first dozen chapters after the elders make landfall work nicely, until 1112-115. The elders are relentless and efficient, they're everywhere and practically tip the balance by their actions alone. At some point you really feel the Straw Hats are in a pinch, which is good. Bad points however for the constant chit-chat in between moves, which makes parts of the action feel like a caricaturally overdone bullet-speed sequence. Bonney gaining control of the Pacifistas is one very nasty offender in that respect.
Then the core content of the message starts and everything gradually weakens. I really enjoyed the message altogether, but it's too little information spread over too many chapters with parts that should have been cut.
At first the worldwide reactions are a nice touch, it's nice to see long-gone faces and the revelation of the sinking world is one tough blow to the guts. Then the reactions and VP monologue go on and on and on, to the point where they make it difficult to keep track of the main action, which in return feels like a disjointed sequence when it should be one furious rush of adrenaline.
At the same time, the elders lose their efficiency because they're frantically trying to locate the source of the transmission. Which kinda makes sense, but when Saturn just vanishes in the middle of a fight against the Weak Hats it really becomes too much. Previousy these guys felt threatening, but progressively all they do is big flashy moves with conversely tiny consequences. Partly because they're fighting Nika plus the giants and apparently a big laugh and popping eyes will let them shrugg off anything. Fight choregraphy is really weak throughout this part and scale is all over the place when they're in their giant form, which doesn't help.
It doesn't get any better afterwards, with the message refusing to end - it really should have concluded after the sinking world and ongoing war, we didn't need to hear again about the Roger pirates and One Piece, this last parts felt off-tune. Plus, too much action crammed in a very short sequence, between Ju Peter and Saturn invading the boat one after the other, more elders coming after the robot, robot coming back out of the water, haki bomb...It's just too much, I would have prefered a more concise ending with additional breathing space.Bad points also for the Vegapunk memory wipe afterthought. It explains his actions, but I can't accept that he didn't even once try to stop York or secure the Mother Flame out of the World Gov's reach.
All in all a good arc that kept me entertained, but the last part is clearly weaker and dilutes the fun, eventhough it had some massive reveals.
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@Seafarer33 the thing is that at that point with Alpha Bonney wasn’t 100% cured. Yes, the procedure was successful, but what if Kuma ran away with her, only to discover months later that her condition wasn’t stable? Kuma remained faithful to the pact because as long as he played along Bonney would have access to Vegapunk.
Besides, even with Bonne cured, Kuma’s betrayal could mean Bonney would be enslaved at some point of her life. And that was Kuma’s greatest fear.
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As for the arc’s final acts, I also agree with your points. I really felt the Elders arrival was great and escalated tension in a wonderful way, only for everything to be overtaken by slow snail hunts and redundant worldwide reactions. That was the point the arc lost my interest for good.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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@Deicide it's true that Vegapunk mentions a year of rehabilitation. During which Bonney still can't be exposed to the sun ? It's possible I missed that information, which at least would explain why Kuma doesn't consider taking her with him. I don't think the nurse and her team ever did any genuine medical care for Bonney, though, and I doubt Kuma was fooled either. Maybe it's a matter of perspective : to Vegapunk and to the reader, it seems obvious that everything will be fine after the procedure on Egghead is over. But from her father's point of view, it can still go wrong anytime so he doesn't take any risk and plays nice.
Optimism is maybe Kuma's main weakness, all in all. His entire life as a slave, priest, revolutionary and warlord showed him time and again that playing nice with the world government won't get you anywhere, yet he still somehow convinces himself that, eventhough she is his daughter, Bonney will escape this fate and her captors won't horribly abuse the situation.
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@Seafarer33 Kuma also thinks he causes a lot of suffering because of his buccaneer lineage so he feels people would be safer away from him.
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Seeing as how Oda gave as much closure as he could to the prominent Egghead characters, as far as saying Stussy got killed in action anyway, then it seems Chapter 1126 will be the start of the Elbaf arc.
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Guess the only thing he forgot was explaining Stussy’s vampiric powers
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I still believe if Oda would have completely removed the Sabo/Koby/Buggy/Shanks/Teach content, then he would have to go through the whole debacle with York/Seraphim. So it isn't a simple trade off where you take out the outside content and left with what we got from Egghead. Would also have to consider whatever amount of chapters it would take for the crew to capture Seraphim and York.
I say no less than 20 chapters. Especially with the pace he was going at with exploring each building and floor of Labophase.
When I look back at the arc, the exaggerated aspects of VP stand out, but his claim that each satellite have an expertise wasn't fleshed out. I can definitely see him going through that earlier in the arc since he doesn't have to switch to Teach or others for 45% of certain chapters.
Nami has a bubble gun, Robin got really hurt, Luffy unknowingly used S-Snake's own traits against her. Didn't even get to Kaku having to follow Zoro.
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I still stand by the fact that we didn't need to see the end of the Seraphim vs. Straw Hats encounter. By the time Oda moved on we had every single piece in place to know how it would turn out and when we did see the aftermath, the only thing Oda needed to explain was the S-Snake reversal (which he did through flashback).
Luffy, Lucci and Sanji weren't going to lose. We knew Atlas, Robin and Chopper were on their way to York. Bonney was out of the incident entirely. We didn't know where S-Hawk was going at the time but in the aftermath with the injured Kaku and Robin, it's clear that S-Hawk went to protect York and caused them both to get injured, before Zoro held him down. I think if Oda showed it to us in real time, it would have been an extra chapter and a half at most.
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@black-leg-jex I don't think that is a debate. He gave us all the intel necessary to complete the arc.
I'm just curious to what would happen if the outside events weren't included. Feels like he weighed those events as the pre-Saturn mini adventure.
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@black-leg-jex said in Official Egghead Thread:
I still stand by the fact that we didn't need to see the end of the Seraphim vs. Straw Hats encounter. By the time Oda moved on we had every single piece in place to know how it would turn out and when we did see the aftermath, the only thing Oda needed to explain was the S-Snake reversal (which he did through flashback).
Luffy, Lucci and Sanji weren't going to lose. We knew Atlas, Robin and Chopper were on their way to York. Bonney was out of the incident entirely. We didn't know where S-Hawk was going at the time but in the aftermath with the injured Kaku and Robin, it's clear that S-Hawk went to protect York and caused them both to get injured, before Zoro held him down. I think if Oda showed it to us in real time, it would have been an extra chapter and a half at most.
Evidently Oda was more interested in showing Garp vs. Kuzan, and having a full flashback to Robin vs. York would have been redundant. I do admit a few lines of dialogue would have been welcome though.
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@black-leg-jex said in Official Egghead Thread:
I still stand by the fact that we didn't need to see the end of the Seraphim vs. Straw Hats encounter. By the time Oda moved on we had every single piece in place to know how it would turn out and when we did see the aftermath, the only thing Oda needed to explain was the S-Snake reversal (which he did through flashback).
Luffy, Lucci and Sanji weren't going to lose. We knew Atlas, Robin and Chopper were on their way to York. Bonney was out of the incident entirely. We didn't know where S-Hawk was going at the time but in the aftermath with the injured Kaku and Robin, it's clear that S-Hawk went to protect York and caused them both to get injured, before Zoro held him down. I think if Oda showed it to us in real time, it would have been an extra chapter and a half at most.
I admittedly wanted to know how Robin got injured, but that's a very minor thing that can be figured out with guesswork.
- Brook and Atlas figure out York's hiding spot. We know this happened.
- S-Hawk presumably went after Robin's group to protect York. Ends up injuring Robin.
- Zoro and Kaku arrived late to deal with him because of Zoro's dumbass sense of direction. Kaku got the raw deal, since he ended up as one of the bigger casualties.
- Nami and Brook joined Robin's party while Sanji kept S-Shark busy.
- Nami, Robin, Chopper, Brook and Atlas overwhelmed York.
- Jinbe did nothing as usual.
- And of course Luffy met with S-Snake, likely after dealing with S-Bear.
In the end, it's just more running from spot A to spot B. I guess Oda just couldn't find a way to make York threatening outside of her control over the Seraphim, especially since her side was massively outnumbered to begin with.
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God forbid we're shown the weaker Straw Hats (who were all otherwise completely irrelevant to the Egghead plot) overwhelm a semi-major villain with their smarts for once.
Wouldn't you prefer 10 pages of Nika's eyes popping out? -
@Zanze I want every chapter to be about Nika. Eyes Popping Out for even pages, Maniac Bouncy Laughing for odd pages, plus each chapter a spread of every character in a ten miles radius with their eyes popping out in awe while chanting Joyboy's name.
Then on chapter 1569, we learn in a SBS that Buggy became king of the pirates and off-paneled every other parties thanks to his Entertainor's Haki, the super-secret brand of Haki only clowns can awake. He then proceeded to sink the world with Pluton because someone commented on his nose. One Piece concludes on a triple spread of everybody drowning while Nika-Luffy laughs it off without a care. -
I dunno. You could say about a lot of scenes or character moments that we didn't need to see them because we can predict how it will most likely go. Any Strawhat fight against the villain's minions could theoretically be skipped because we know our guys are going to win in the end anyway, by that logic.
Personally, I was really enjoying the Labophase Death Game. I know not everybody agrees, but to me, it was a fun scenario and I liked how it involved pretty much all of the crew plus most of the Punks (it would have given us more time to spend with these characters, too). I didn't even mind the twist reveal that the Strawhats had already resolved the situation when we came back to Egghead, that was kinda cool, too, but I was pretty disappointed when we didn't even get a flashback afterwards to show us how it had come to this. And as Zanze said, it's even more disappointing considering a lot of the characters involved didn't get anything to do for the rest of the arc...
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My reading of those chapters were that Oda doesn't really know how to write a complex murder mistery.
He set up all the pieces but when it was actually time to see them move that's when he decided to show what was happening elsewhere. And he could have done that to create suspense, or indeed skip a couple of hours so we would see the characters back in Egghead in new/different positions before showing the resolution on camera, but he skipped everything and went straight to the "It's done, we've captured the criminal" phase.
Not saying that he didn't want to show what was happening with Law, Kidd, and Garp during the Egghead arc but he really did use that opportunity to write himself out of a corner.
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The specific solution chosen for the Labophase Death Game - Child Clone Hancock is genetically predisposed to obeying Luffy (despite Adult Hancock needing to be won over by actual interaction with Luffy)- is also so efficient and easy that it feels like a hurried means to an end, while also completely gutting the "Resolving things offscreen demonstrates the Straw Hats competence as an emperor crew!" angle the resolution had going for it.
With Egghead in general I feel theres a theme of Oda overreaching with a lot of the concepts; Stuff like the traitor plotline, the seraphim command hierarchy, the rules of the Punk Records MindCloud, the sattelites as extensions of aspects of Vegapunk and everything to do with Stussy either end up muddled and inconsistent, or decidedly half-baked. -
@FolhaS said in Official Egghead Thread:
My reading of those chapters were that Oda doesn't really know how to write a complex murder mistery.
He set up all the pieces but when it was actually time to see them move that's when he decided to show what was happening elsewhere. And he could have done that to create suspense, or indeed skip a couple of hours so we would see the characters back in Egghead in new/different positions before showing the resolution on camera, but he skipped everything and went straight to the "It's done, we've captured the criminal" phase.
Not saying that he didn't want to show what was happening with Law, Kidd, and Garp during the Egghead arc but he really did use that opportunity to write himself out of a corner.
This is weird because he didn't really write himself in a corner to begin with. He actually showed how Luffy ended up convincing S-Snake to save the petrified, as well as most characters converging into York's spot anyway. He was already setting up the solution before changing scenarios.
I genuinely think he actually got bored of the Seraphim and decided to skip things because they weren't really offering anything new for the reader. They all have old powers, so outside of creative new uses of it like S-Shark's, there was nothing worth drawing again.
I believe it's no coincidence that they ended up completely sidelined for the final act, being stuck in those bubbles and not being players anymore. It's Oda literally shelving his new toys in favor of the giant monster Elders.
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@King-Cannon Also a possibility.
But what I was trying to say when I said he wrote himself into a corner is not that he didn't know how to solve it but that he didn't know how to solve it properly, how to show it the best way.
Oda does use alot of cliffhangers, sillhouettes, and foreshadowing but the way he does it is different than the way a mistery writter does. Oda is a great writer at shounen adventure with mistery and surprises but that doesn't mean he's also a great at writing an Agatha Christie novel.I applaud him for going for something he hadn't tried yet but I think he realized mid way through that it wasn't really for him.
But your point of view also makes sense, it can also be a case that he was thinking about featuring more of the Seraphin and then he decided to pivot to the Elders.
I guess in the end we do agree that Oda got "bored" of what he was building and decided to wrap it and switch it up. -
- Fishman Island had the minor tussle with the royal and Sanji blood debacle that was a foreshadow of Luffy/Jinbe transfusion moment
- PH had the body swap, dragon, and Yeti brothers
- Dressrosa - Corrida Colosseum
- Even a small arc like Zou had the Samurai keep away
- WCI arc - infiltration before wedding including Brulee vs Chopper, getting the rubbings, and softening the Crackers by Big Nami
- Wano got Udon, Zoro's adventure, and the overall gathering of allies, weapons, and info
As I said before, less about if it should have been drawn out and more of if it ever was an option. It speaks to these minor differences in arcs. I would say the intermissions in Wano started it because of Reverie. It makes Reverie feel like this marker in the story. The throne talk, 1st mention of Rocks, Royals, Imu, and this person (possibly Holy Knight) "warning" the Gorosei.
More importantly, is this an ongoing thing due to said marker showing the story is over? Wano has the intermissions and Egghead has little build up moments that take up anywhere between a quarter of a chapter to half before it results in a full 9 chapter event.
Elbaf can possibly go back to the norm or continue the trend by having a different form of Wano and Egghead.
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@Daz said in Official Egghead Thread:
The specific solution chosen for the Labophase Death Game - Child Clone Hancock is genetically predisposed to obeying Luffy (despite Adult Hancock needing to be won over by actual interaction with Luffy)- is also so efficient and easy that it feels like a hurried means to an end, while also completely gutting the "Resolving things offscreen demonstrates the Straw Hats competence as an emperor crew!" angle the resolution had going for it.
With Egghead in general I feel theres a theme of Oda overreaching with a lot of the concepts; Stuff like the traitor plotline, the seraphim command hierarchy, the rules of the Punk Records MindCloud, the sattelites as extensions of aspects of Vegapunk and everything to do with Stussy either end up muddled and inconsistent, or decidedly half-baked.Maybe Oda had Stussy in mind as a Straw Hat and changed his mind.
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So has the Elbaf arc started already?
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I would start it when we have an adventure title chapter.
But it is not like it was important to start an arc on a specific chapter or do you want to close this thread already ? -
@Kdom said in Official Egghead Thread:
I would start it when we have an adventure title chapter.
But it is not like it was important to start an arc on a specific chapter or do you want to close this thread already ?Not close it necessarily, but just wondering what warranted the start of a new thread.
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A few comments about Egghead:
- In many ways this arc had an unusual structure: no big baddy that Luffy defeated in a fight, but a cast of immortal enemies that could only be warded off, not defeated. Even Kizaru disappears in the middle of action.
- The arc was interrupted in the middle. On the one hand, that was an interesting experiment in storytelling. It added tensions to the labophase death game, since we didn’t get to see the resolution. The problem was that when we returned to Egghead the whole plot was abandoned. And we needed to see the Elders attacking Sabo and Cobra before them going to the island. Maybe Kidd and Law could have been defeated before the Strawhats arrived in Egghead, at the end of Wano, to close off their stories.
- We explored very little of the island of science itself. Best panels were when Mars found the giant brain in a vat. It seemed to me like Oda was loving the silhouette of the island, and nothing else of the geography. Just take a look at the many many panels there were of the marine ships surrounding the flying egg. That’s most of what we got to see of the island and the people who lived there: the crazy outline.
- The many different plots we got didn’t mix well. The seraphim were a problem in the first half of the arc and shelved completely for the second part. The Elders completely replaced Kizaru as a threat. Kuma had a perfect flashback and then didn’t really interact with the Strawhats. I don’t remember Luffy acknowledging he was even there.
- The Strawhats in general felt like they were not truly a part of the arc, at most spectators. The main storybeats like Kuma arriving and Vegapunk’s speech didn’t get a reaction out of any of them. There are hints that Robin and the others heard Vegapunk talk about the ancient weapons, but we don’t know how much she already knew or learned.
So, in short, Egghead had a lot of fun elements, but a completely jumbled structure that made the arc fall short, in my opinion.
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Looks like the Elbaf arc has indeed started then.
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Now that Egghead is over, I think it was a very exciting arc with a lot of rising action and a ton of really cool moments but it deffo doesn't rank up there with the best of them. Maybe a high B tier arc. My biggest disappointment was actually that we didn't get to spend much time actually exploring the island. We got a bit but I think we could've had more.
Looking back at the arc in hindsight though, the cutaways make a ton of sense now. They are key to the arc as they were all setting up for that one splash screen of all the key players going for the One Piece. Law and Kid aren't in the running so we need to get rid of them. We need to have Buggy motivated to get it. We need to show readers that Koby is capable enough to fight in the big leagues. It would be awkward to have all of those scenes before Egghead started so cutting away to set these pieces up was ultimately the right choice.
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@electricmastro An arc has started, but there's a lot of inconsistencies between the place we are and the Elbaf we've seen previously. The real Elbaf can't be far off though...
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@Captain-M said in Official Egghead Thread:
@electricmastro An arc has started, but there's a lot of inconsistencies between the place we are and the Elbaf we've seen previously. The real Elbaf can't be far off though...
Why, because they have legos?
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@electricmastro said in Official Egghead Thread:
@Captain-M said in Official Egghead Thread:
@electricmastro An arc has started, but there's a lot of inconsistencies between the place we are and the Elbaf we've seen previously. The real Elbaf can't be far off though...
Why, because they have legos?
And insects are bigger than the “giants”
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@Chams-0 said in Official Egghead Thread:
@electricmastro said in Official Egghead Thread:
@Captain-M said in Official Egghead Thread:
@electricmastro An arc has started, but there's a lot of inconsistencies between the place we are and the Elbaf we've seen previously. The real Elbaf can't be far off though...
Why, because they have legos?
And insects are bigger than the “giants”
I mean, the Straw Hats encounter animals of many different sizes all the time, so that's just business as usual.
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@electricmastro Because the inhabitants are human size, their great central tree isn't the right one and the "Lego" buildings crumble like brick and mortar rather that deconstruct into pieces like toys, despite the aesthetic.
There's something about this new location Oda is holding back while leading casual readers to think it's the Elbaf we've glimpsed before. Some kind of twist or reveal has to be coming.
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@Captain-M said in Official Egghead Thread:
@electricmastro Because the inhabitants are human size, their great central tree isn't the right one and the "Lego" buildings crumble like brick and mortar rather that deconstruct into pieces like toys, despite the aesthetic.
There's something about this new location Oda is holding back while leading casual readers to think it's the Elbaf we've glimpsed before. Some kind of twist or reveal has to be coming.
Knowing Oda, I wouldn't be surprised he wouldn't just want to make Elbaf a whole bunch of big trees and rocks.
So if this makes Elbaf less boring, then I'm all for it, so I hope it's not just some elaborate illusion. lol
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@electricmastro I think if he was going to retcon Elbaf's aesthetics because a pure old school viking vibe wasn't enough, the time to do that would have been during Shanks's cutaway on Egghead.
Instead, we have a point of comparison that hints to the place we're at not quite being what it seems.
I don't think it'll be an illusion or hallucination though. There have been too many tangible elements for that to fully add up.
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@Captain-M said in Official Egghead Thread:
@electricmastro I think if he was going to retcon Elbaf's aesthetics because a pure old school viking vibe wasn't enough, the time to do that would have been during Shanks's cutaway on Egghead.
Instead, we have a point of comparison that hints to the place we're at not quite being what it seems.
I don't think it'll be an illusion or hallucination though. There have been too many tangible elements for that to fully add up.
Lego towns can't realistically co-exist with a Viking aesthetic?
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@electricmastro If it was just that it was Lego, I don't think there would be an issue. Or at least, far, far less reason for doubt. But the tree and the human-size locals combine with it to make the whole thing suspicious.
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Does anyone want to start an Elbaf thread?
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Yes, this could be a mini-arc. Or this may be a Warland arc. Who knows at this point?
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@Goukan said in Official Egghead Thread:
@Shiebs I think we should wait until we definitely know if we're in Elbaf first lol
Maybe Oda changed his mind about going to Elbaf after Egghead.
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Legoland being on "vikingland" Elbaph is completely understandable as lego is Danish.
I full expect there also to be a land where people piece together furniture with manuals by themselves while cursing and a land where alcohol is ridiculously priced. -
Can we have the official Elbaph thread now?
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Mods: We already have an Elbaf thread at home
the Elbaf thread at home: https://forums.arlongpark.net/topic/16000/think-elbaf
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I already have something to post in the Elbaph thread. Where is it?
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The Great Big Egghead Review
Over about a week, I reread the whole Egghead arc, start to end, going about a volume at a time. I'm going to be very curious to see the blind reactions from people who catch up from this point on and experience the whole thing blind, because it is so hard to believe this is two years' worth of content.
Egghead stands in contrast to Wano in a host of ways, some for better, some for worse. The most obvious one, and the biggest pro, is the pacing. Holy shit, this arc is fast. It ricochets like a pinball from idea to idea, from set piece to cutaway and back again, almost faster than a reader can keep up. Perhaps too fast at times - I would have loved to have seen the researchers in the Fabriophase and some of the moments in the cutaways be a little more fleshed out, and it feels like momentum is just starting to build after the cutaway when we're slammed headlong into Kuma's flashback. But unlike Wano, where you get to about your fourth straight volume of fighting on Onigashima and feel ready to move on with three and a half volumes to go, there is no chance for anything here to outstay its welcome.
Do not let this year's rough break schedule fool you; it was so unkind to the escape sequence it's not even funny. The things you overthink week after week just don't stack up the same read as a volume. Example: I complained in my chapter review about Bonney transforming into Nika twice, saying it would have had more impact if it had happened just once, at the climactic moment, for Saturn. But reading continuously, it didn't bother me at all. The two transformations felt like a continuation of the same event, an ongoing moment where she transforms, runs out of energy and flags, then finds a second wind to pick it up again because of Saturn's arrival. The sense of flow is so much stronger.
To compare the pair, the battle of Onigashima was set up in the narrative as a raid, but the scale of its storytelling made it feel more like a war. Egghead's big build up to the Marine blockade and tense period of futile negotiation before the first shots are fired carries the weight of a looming war, but when the action starts for real, it has the feeling of a raid. In an instant we go from anticipation to Borsalino being right there in the middle of the crew's territory while a bombardment starts from the outside in. And everything from there is a desperate scramble to stay ahead of forces that have our heroes outnumbered and outgunned. When the whole thing plays out at once, you get a great feeling of how cornered the Strawhats are. All the weekly complaints that one character or another didn't act stratgetically enough or take a long enough moment to express shock or mourn an ally's sacrifice melt away as the action rolls. I bought fully that there wasn't time for that kind of thinking or feeling until after the battle. Hell, putting a transcript of Vegapunk's speech into talk time calculators gives estimates from 12 to 25 minutes, depending on talk speed. That's how long the past five months of One Piece have taken in-universe. I'd be shocked if the whole climax, from Borsalino starting the attack, took more than an hour including the speech.
And I have to give praise to the move to pull in all five Elders, when things were already feeling incredibly hopeless, just to make sure the crew truly only escape by the skin of their teeth.
There's a lot of "if"s in looking at how it played out. If the Elders hadn't prioritised stopping the broadcast over targeting the crew... If they'd sent an admiral who wouldn't hesitate over personal feelings... If the Giant Pirates hadn't arrived when they did... We tend to talk ourselves out of tension when we have a week to do it, but the situation felt a lot more precarious in its completed form.
On the flip side, holes open up in the sense of space and framing of Egghead's set pieces, inclusive of cutaways. When talking about Wano, I've lauded praise on Onigashima as a setting, for the complexity of its layout and the thoroughness of its mapping. But despite the sheer amount of things to keep track of, it never felt like anyone teleported across the island, or showed up next to the wrong landmark or experienced any kind of contradiction in their placement on the stage. Oda obviously cared a lot about making it feel like a functional locale. For Egghead, not so much. How is Future City laid out? Doesn't matter. The only thing really important is the cloud machine in the middle. The buildings are clustered close when Luffy needs something to bounce between and scattered far when the Elders need space to be summoned in. Why is Luffy in Franky's hand before Bonney's flashback and lying on the ground far behind him after? Did he land next to the food machine or not? Shouldn't Nusjuro's leap up to the Labophase have landed him next to the Sunny, instead of far enough away that Zoro and Jinbei have room to chase him? Even outside of the main story, the pre-arc global events have Blackbeard fighting outside the Amazon Lily sanctum in one panel and black holing the buildings inside the next. Sabo's Marie Geoise flashback frames it as if he has time to meet Bonney, escort her outside, then make it back into the Empty Throne's room in the span of Cobra's meeting with the Elders.
Continuity of space matters less to Egghead than it has to previous arcs. Setting wavers before the needs of plot. I'm sure this serves (or is because of) the arc's swifter pacing. Less planning, fewer positioning issues to spend panels or pages reconciling; just put them close enough to where they need to be and most readers won't notice. Me though, I love that kind of attention to detail and am disappointed to see it go. Hopefully Oda will reassess his priorities again for future arcs and strike a better balance between Egghead pacing and Wano intricacy.
It also doesn't feel as tightly plotted as I'd like. While it can often be hard to distinguish the worldbuilding-only red herrings from the genuine plot setup, there's a few here that feel especially blatant. The light gloves is the big one. The ability to lock the dom shoes and the front entrance to the lab that's intangible from one side and solid from the other also feel like they were intended for moments they never got. We have Franky telling Lilith to use the General Franky to move the Sunny, only to go with Brook's ice slide for a gag. There are ideas that feel like they outright contradict themselves, such as the rules for Pacifista authority hierarchy, or why petty theft is worth execution by Pacifista when the machines didn't even ask for payment. Holy hell, why not just say the Pacifista recognised Luffy's group as pirates instead?
Rereading the early stages looking for clues that York was the traitor is an exercise in futility - she's onscreen, visibly not doing anything when the Frontier Dome is hacked! Boo! To compare with Wano again, Kanjuro's treason was deftly handled, with enough clues to make a solid guess at while remaining just ambiguous enough that the confirmation still worked as a reveal.
Though in Oda's defence, there's a couple of lines of dialogue that feel a lot more pointed on the reread.
(the first one was updated for the volume release, which the SJ app hasn't updated to, so I couldn't get a clean, digital screenshot for it)To swing back to the positive notes, the retro future style of the Egghead environment is a joy to behold. The last laboratory environment at Punk Hazard was samey and sterile, but Egghead is full of vibrant ideas. The futuristic buildings and mechanised sea beasts are classic Oda work. There are some killer spreads from start to end. I love the shark looming under the water in 1061, the group scene in 1074, the cross section of the Victoria Punk in 1079 and the big reveals of Punk Records and the Mother Flame in 1113 and 1114 particularly, but there's more good ones than I could list. And, of course, the horror development of all Five Elders arriving would not have landed the way it did if all of their designs didn't absolutely slap. Stunning, stunning monster design.
Where the Egghead design work falls short is the crew's outfits. Okay, Egghead was a winter island that's been airconditioned into a temperate one, so a lot of the outfits contrast breezy summer clothes with wintery aspects. Hawaiian shirts with hoods. A one-piece leotard with a fleecy lining. As if the traditional clothes have fused with what it makes sense to wear now. But that doesn't fully work, does it? The outfits are fabricated in real time by science, not adapted over time by the locals. And not everyone gets those aspects anyway - plenty of characters just get futuristic bodysuits.
Luffy's Gear Five transformation is badly let down here. Instead of getting a unique, white version of his big coat and bulky dom shoes, those garments just disappear from his body when he transforms and come back when he returns to normal. (This plays into the continuity complaints as well.) It feels like a branding choice, like the "base" outfit for the transformation hasn't been iconified enough yet, so we can't have it changing. That's cynical and speculative, but the bottom line is I'm not a fan.
And the elephant in the room: the women's outfits. I don't want to come across like a prude. Sex appeal can be good and fun and healthy when it fits into the narrative and characterisation. Nami showing a lot of leg isn't something that should bother anyone at this point. But the fact that every female character gets the same style, with Bonney and Stussy wearing almost literally the same thing in different colours, when there's so much more diversity in how the men can look futuristic? Hell, Lilith and Atlas showcase alternate possibilities that maybe at least one of the newly arrived women could have followed the example of. When your sex appeal is so obviously 'for the author' instead of 'by the character' it breaks immersion and becomes an issue with your storytelling, and though Oda has straddled that line in the past, he firmly crosses it with Egghead.
This was not the Strawhats' arc. I can understand disappointment about this, that none of them are particularly spotlighted or given any chance to grow. I'm neutral on it, personally. Not doing more with the sciencey Franky or Chopper is a bit of a missed opportunity, and while Robin had a promising start, she's sidelined even harder than the rest of the crew in the back half. But this is a big story with a while to go. The main crew will always be around to do more with. They can afford some time in the background. A tougher blow is the treatment of Stussy. After all the intrigue about her starting from Whole Cake Island it feels like Oda totally ran out of ideas for what to do with her following the shock betrayal of Cipher Pol early in the arc. She really does just fizzle out, her choice to sacrifice herself (even though the Vega-clones said earlier that dying for the Stella was their duty) undercuts a suggested arc of learning to recognise and accept her own humanity despite her origin as a clone. I really hope there's something more planned for her character in the future, because this is a sad note to play out such a potentially interesting figure.
Forgetting the Strawhats and Stussy, the real characters driving this arc are Vegapunk, Kuma and Bonney.
Vegapunk is our fascinating central figure. While he presents a charming mad scientist archetype at the outset, it becomes apparent as the story progresses that his morality is much more grey. He's a flawed figure who chose to support the blatantly corrupt World Government to get his ideas funded, despite his Revolutionary sympathies. He sells out his ideals for the convenience of it. He prefers not to think about how an invention might be misused or by who until the World Government's firing of the Mother Flame-powered weapon forces him to. Though technologically genius, he's socially naive and easily manipulated by totalitarian overseers who tell him he has no choice but to carry out their cruel orders. Vegapunk is selfish. He expresses regret, but not hesitation to ask Sentomaru and Stussy to throw away their positions and outlaw themselves to save him. His clones, which are talked up to have been made into individuals by their diverging experiences, still have an expectation that they will die to save the original. We learn at the very end of the arc that he had the opportunity to drop it all and flee before the Marine siege began, but instead chose to die in a blaze of glory, unable to stand the prospect of a life hunted and without funds to continue inventing. It would feel a little more honourable had so many not sacrificed their lives and livelihoods to prolong his life by a few short hours. And it's not like he would have lived in total poverty anyway, with the ability set the whole Labophase adrift on a cloud!
People talked, during the weekly read, like these character flaws and the bad decisions Vegapunk made because of them are flaws in the narrative. I have to disgree. I think they make Vegapunk a more compelling and layered character than his cartoony first impression. It would be a problem if they were inconsistent, or if there was some dissonance in how the narrative seemed to be wanting us to feel about him. (For a contrasting example, a lot of the present day talk about Oden and framing of his legacy can feel at odds with the flaws and mistakes demonstrated in his flashback.) Luffy's drive to help the old scientist comes mostly from 'his people fed me' and 'he asked and I already said yes' rather than any genuine affection, and the range of reactions from the wider crew, Zoro in particular, provide their own emphasis that we maybe shouldn't be entirely sure how much we liked Vegapunk to begin with.
The other side of the character coin is Kuma and Bonney's heartbreaking story. There is no moral complication here. These are good, sympathetic people who have been utterly and completely screwed over from birth (from both of their births) by the world they live in and have to fight and struggle to win back any happiness for themselves. Their flashback will go down as an all-timer in a series packed with memorable backstories. You can't help wanting to see them end up happy.
A final character shoutout has to go to Borsalino - undeniably a villain, but with a complicating internal conflict that keeps you guessing about his movements, his goals, and if he's holding back, or even going to switch sides throughout the battle.
And a last negative for balance, as much fun as Lucci and Kaku's returns were, Kaku has a rough start, falling for holograms and the Frontier Dome as he made his entrance. It's admittedly been a while since I last read Water Seven, but despite being one of the funnier Cipher Pol agents there, I don't think he was ever an outright buffoon. Thankfully, he starts feeling more like himself after the Death Game begins.
The final stages of the Egghead escape are accompanied by a mixed lore drop and lore recap. I mean it when I say 'accompanied,' because when you're not reading weekly it's crazy how spaced out the panels of the speech feel among the action. But this is the sequence which makes Egghead what it was built to be - the first arc of the final saga. The sinking world and establishing of consequences for Ancient Weapon use are a great way to up the stakes for the final battle and pay off on the past quarter century of worldbuilding by putting every supporting cast member from every past island at stake. And while some parts certain do confirm things we either already knew or were 90% sure of, that kind of thing is important for getting all the casual readers on the same page as things really start to build up.
The epilogue chapters, like so many arcs before, do a great job of pulling things full circle right when you think Oda's out of time to close the last few lingering holes and redeem the final dangling flaws. The choice to sacrifice Saturn for Garling is a bold and exciting way to bring a new villain in for the final arcs. I would love to eventually find out if this was an impulse decision, or if Oda's really been planning for more than two decades to sacrifice one of the old men in favour of the guy with the Shanks connection.
I've waffled a bit, so let's break the pros and cons down as a final set of TLDR dot points:
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Egghead's blistering pacing feels like a response to Wano's sluggish performance, but is at times an overcorrection, causing scenes to feel like they jump forward and the setting to lack depth and structure.
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The weekly read, especially with breaks was unfathomably bad for the arc's final act. The speed of the action and levels of tension feel like an entirely different story taken all at once.
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Egghead has fantastic environment design and introduces the incredible demonic forms for the Five Elders, but the handling of outfits for the crew and supporting cast are hit and miss.
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Egghead puts the Strawhats on the backburner and squanders Stussy's potential, but does fantastic character work on the complicated morality of Vegapunk, the tragedy of Kuma and Bonney, and the conflicted antagonism of Borsalino.
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As a part of a larger final saga, the arc lays important groundwork for all the final players of the arcs to come and serves a vital purpose of getting casual and hardcore readers aligned on the lore and stakes.
So yeah. Fun arc. A few too many caveats to its wins to rise far above the middle of the pack, but it demonstrates an ongoing willingness to try to correct the things that didn't work in the last arc, develop new and old characters in resonant ways, and keep the series and its story unpredictable and exciting. And with the new Elbaf arc starting with a unique amnesia-drive opening, I'm confident Oda still has the drive to keep trying. One of the things that has always appealed about One Piece has been its ambition. It's flawed, but it has flaws in places other series don't even have. Other big shonens felt like they were starting phone it in before they were half as long as One Piece is now, but Oda keeps swinging for the fences.
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