Marvel Movies Thread - Holy Shitballs
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SHIELD is silly cloak-and-daggers government conspiracies and double-crosses and plot-twists-that-Fury-saw-coming and bleh. It dragged Captain America from the most wholesome hero of the series into sturm and drang by his second movie, and it's just…so drab and lifeless compared to the wacky hijinks that you should be able to pull with this universe.
Hang in there, Kierkegaard.
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I love winter soldier and seing Steve banter with Black Widow and create a friendship with Falcon.
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I think the point being made here is less "Shield related characters are bad" and more "Plots related to Shield are bad". Like, I love Winter Soldier in the megaton joyride of fun that is Steve, Bucky, Natasha, and Sam. Fury can join too when he wants.
But then Winter Soldier goes into the "Half of Shield is actually Hydra! GASP!" And I just stop caring. Just fast-forward to Sam vs Crossbone or Steve trying to snap Bucky out of it.
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aah a prequel :/
Budapest mission incoming.
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Cause they are totally irrelevant to the movieverse. Still not as nonexistent to the plot as the netflix heroes though, lol.
Well, it at least had to exist contextually, otherwise I don't think Tony would've said out of the blue "hey Bruce, let's form a team with this hammer guy and Captain America"
plus Cap 2 was awesome for its spy thriller kinda angle.
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so drab and lifeless compared to the wacky hijinks that you should be able to pull with this universe.
It would be fun to see the MCU turn into the MAU just to see the fans who shit on the MAU for being too silly get selective amnesia or shit on the silly and wacky hijinks.
Just fast-forward to Sam vs Crossbone or Steve trying to snap Bucky out of it.
I don't know why anyone would want to watch the Sam And Crossbones fight…..considering it was rendered largely meaningless by circumstance.
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I don't know why anyone would want to watch the Sam And Crossbones fight…..considering it was rendered largely meaningless by circumstance.
Really would have preferred to see Sam with his wings against Crossbones with his mask, armor and those hydraulic punching things.
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Winter Soldier was a good flik… but I feel like they blew SHIELD up too early in the overall movie-verse. Yes, they've retconned some and with the tv shows are saying its been around for decades, but as an audience, we saw Coulson working out the acronym in Iron Man 1. Then Shield had some role in Thor, tiny role in Iron Man 2, then Avengers 1, and then... they blew it up.
If you watch the tv show maybe you get more out of it but moviewise, they had barely introduced the thing before destroying it, so it had no weight to it. Fury and Widow were the only (living) characters in it we cared about, and it hadn't been a big dependable staple that helped out or bailed the heroes out time and again, so destroying it was just... whatever.
Its kind of like the new star trek movies which try to pretend the characters have chemistry and years of history together, because the old show had years of adventures and chemistry and we saw those characters and actors age over decades... and it tries to pretend it has the same thing with like 3 hours of screen time and it just doesn't work.
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SHIELD is silly cloak-and-daggers government conspiracies and double-crosses and plot-twists-that-Fury-saw-coming and bleh. It dragged Captain America from the most wholesome hero of the series into sturm and drang by his second movie, and it's just…so drab and lifeless compared to the wacky hijinks that you should be able to pull with this universe.
Are you saying you actually enjoy the first captain America over the second???
I don't think anyone has ever said that in the history of arguments, I'm in shock
Winter Soldier is constantly on lists of squeals that were better than the original
it's in a bunch of top 10 comic book movies lists ike newsarama and such
has a freaking 89% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 70% on meta critic
and your calling it lifeless
your expectations are either way to high or you have shitty tastes my friend
I mean sure Iron man 2 or 3, thor dark world and incredible hulk I can see complaining about those but Fucking Winter Soldier seriously man
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Winter Soldier isn't just a worse sequel, it's one of the worst recent MCU movies period. Well Civil War still outsucks it but yeah. Even mediocre first entries to a franchise have the benefit of shaping the main character which is usually intrinsically interesting. Or introducing the chemistry between multiple characters, which made Guardians 1 a blast as opposed to the flat, caricature-ized garbage we got in the sequel. Hell Yandu and Nebula had more character development than any of the actual crew. Anyway Bucky is boring as hell and I agree with tatermoog about the brooding tone.
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Well I'll just be happy you guys are in the minority
….... like seriously a really really really small minority
hell even Honest Trailers who's job is to criticize movies said it was great
Yes!!! Honest trailers!!! whose job is to diss movies for what they do bad said it was a great movie with close to no flaws
so yeah your guys opinion seems pretty hard to swallow, when compared to the mass amount of love, critical acclaim and ridiculous successes of the film
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Sorry, my reaction was a bit to much
I shouldn't have called your opinion shitty either, we just don't see eye to eye on this
but I guess I can understand not liking something that's critically acclaimed as I don't u8nderstand the love for Avatar
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I'd personally say Winter Soldier is a pretty good and well made movie that I enjoyed less than a preceding movie I thought was in most ways inferior. That's my basic point about SHIELD, it just introduces tonal qualities to movie that I find really unappealing.
And Civil War is pretty much garbage.
Hang in there, Kierkegaard. -
I'd personally say Winter Soldier is a pretty good and well made movie that I enjoyed less than a preceding movie I thought was in most ways inferior. That's my basic point about SHIELD, it just introduces tonal qualities to movie that I find really unappealing.
And Civil War is pretty much garbage.
The problem with Shield for me is it's done soooooooooooooooo much better in the comics, because it's more of a lasting figure and in all sorts of stories playing a huge part so when it finally does fall you can feel the gravity of the situation
as Robby said it was only in a few films and then it was gone, we never really saw it as the organization it was in the comics
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Winter Soldier isn't just a worse sequel, it's one of the worst recent MCU movies period. Well Civil War still outsucks it but yeah. Even mediocre first entries to a franchise have the benefit of shaping the main character which is usually intrinsically interesting. Or introducing the chemistry between multiple characters, which made Guardians 1 a blast as opposed to the flat, caricature-ized garbage we got in the sequel. Hell Yandu and Nebula had more character development than any of the actual crew. Anyway Bucky is boring as hell and I agree with tatermoog about the brooding tone.
What are the reasons that makes Winter Soldier for you?
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What are the reasons that makes Winter Soldier for you?
Well without going into too much detail (some of which I've surely forgotten by now), I just didn't find the story and characters interesting and/or believable. Now suspension of disbelief is a big thing in all these superhero movies, but I have an easier time if it's a spectacle, or fun action, or at least tongue-in-cheek comedic about it. Here the whole thing takes itself way too seriously, with Bucky being someone the audience has been given no good reason to care about and Cap's disgustingly naïve moral compass being a constant frustration. But yeah this whole plot of "oooh super-secret evil organization infiltrates and takes over the highest ranks of secret government!", which is then met with "let's easily sneak into headquarters of said taken-over agency and show them what's what!" just really annoyed me. Coupled with other minor things like Fury's dumb faked death and derpiest-sidekick-ever Falcon, the movie just rubbed me in all the wrong ways. I felt like I should've just watched a James Bond film instead.
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Winter Soldier isn't just a worse sequel, it's one of the worst recent MCU movies period. Well Civil War still outsucks it but yeah. Even mediocre first entries to a franchise have the benefit of shaping the main character which is usually intrinsically interesting. Or introducing the chemistry between multiple characters, which made Guardians 1 a blast as opposed to the flat, caricature-ized garbage we got in the sequel. Hell Yandu and Nebula had more character development than any of the actual crew. Anyway Bucky is boring as hell and I agree with tatermoog about the brooding tone.
You are the type of person I need to talk about superhero movies with because I thought I was alone on all those fronts.
And ESPECIALLY about Cap's arrogant impetuous moral high horse that is always right without question (aside from keeping a secret from Tony, but that whole final conflict in Civil War was dumb and petty).
Seriously, every time I hear someone criticize Superman for looking too much like a naive boyscout, I wish I could retort by saying thay exactly defines MCU Cap and why I'm so ambivalent towards him compared to, say, liking Iron Man despite all of his flaws and frequent jackassery.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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I think most people like Iron Man more than Cap, but SOMEBODY has to be the model of morality, and in Marvel that's Captain American and in DC that's Superman.
And I never hated Superman for being a boy scout. That's HIM. A brooding Superman has been shown time and time again to not be what people want. coughmanofsteelcough
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shrugs I thought Civil War was great.
I can kinda see the complaint on Cap's moral compass… But I dunno, I'm tired of the dumb trend in modern literature classes and movies that morally good characters can't be interesting, and instead need some grey areas. I agree that complexity is definitely more interesting, but I feel the like of Cap or Superman's goodness is a fantastic contrast to the modern idea that the world is full of "shades of grey". And I think it's refreshing too. In Winter Soldier, Cap is opposed to Fury's plan of the Hellicarriers snuffing out potential threats, as the increased security measure was at the cost of freedom, which as Cap says isn't worth it.
And I definitely see the argument of Bucky not gaining our sympathy. He barely got any development himself in Winter Soldier so it's hard to care for him much in CW. But I always found the conflict in CW to be more about the accountability in superheroes, and I thought it was a great character drama between Cap and Iron Man.
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I don't mind Cap being a moral ideal. I just wish his reckless and naive moral decisions, that he usually forces on everybody else while differing opinions always have to look incompetent or antagonistic, didn't always pay off like he thinks.
For example, Luffy is kind of similar in having a simplistic and reckless sense of justice, albeit a more selfish kind. But it's balanced out with his regular stupidity, lack of talent outside combat, and constantly improving how he fights. Thus making his heroics interesting, suspenseful, and inspiring.
Cap is a more selfless straightlaced version of that but without the compelling flaws. The narrative always finds a way to bend over and kiss his ass no matter how impulsive or biased he might initially seem.
I don't need Cap brooding, having a grey sense of morality, or constantly having guilt trips like most modern heroes do. I'm always fine with classic black-and-white ethics superhero tales. He should stand out and be confidently inspiring.
But I wish he didn't always have to look like the best guy ever while Tony keeps getting trashed on nonstop and is somehow still marketed as a hero. His entire track record post-Iron Man 3 is about messing things up one way or another to no end. And he's supposed to be the first Avenger (pun intended), the leading figure of this cinematic universe. It freaking boggles my mind why Marvel treats him like… like... comic book Hank Pym with no redeeming moments lol.
Would it really be the worst thing in the world if one of Cap's rash actions bites him in the ass and the movie rightfully acknowledges it as his fault? That he reevaluates how he operates as a hero and leader even a little? That's one thing I can at least give Tony credit for even though he always lets his ego or emotions get ahead of him.
Also, the main problem with Civil War is that it forgets its unique premise about superhero accountability two-thirds through the movie and morphs into a generic conflict about why revenge is bad and everything that seemed like complex moral arguments was just an evil mastermind ploy to exploit insecurities. That and the main conflict being Bucky being framed is just boring and makes the pro-registration side look like idiots instead of having a viable point.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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There is a difference between having a moral gray area and making tough choices despite being morally "straight-laced." The naïveté I'm talking about is more like the guy who does something because it's the law, but not because it's right. Cap has a really shitty sense of picking his battles and balancing his ideals with reality. It makes him seem dumb at best, infuriating at worst.
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your expectations are either way to high or you have shitty tastes my friend
I mean sure Iron man 2 or 3, thor dark world and incredible hulk I can see complaining about those but Fucking Winter Soldier seriously man
I also liked the first Captain America better than Winter Soldier. And for all the hype Civil War gets, it had the airport scene and not much else.
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Well I'll just be happy you guys are in the minority
….... like seriously a really really really small minority
hell even Honest Trailers who's job is to criticize movies said it was great
Yes!!! Honest trailers!!! whose job is to diss movies for what they do bad said it was a great movie with close to no flaws
so yeah your guys opinion seems pretty hard to swallow, when compared to the mass amount of love, critical acclaim and ridiculous successes of the film
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Sorry, my reaction was a bit to much
I shouldn't have called your opinion shitty either, we just don't see eye to eye on this
but I guess I can understand not liking something that's critically acclaimed as I don't u8nderstand the love for Avatar
The first Cap had all the great scenes with Steve showing what a good guy he was. ANd completely failed to make Bucky a memorable character.
Winter Soldier hinged entirely on us remembering Bucky fondly like Steve did, but he had nowhere near enough presence in the first film to warrant the lengths Steve then went to for the next TWO movies. (It was also vastly inferior to the comic it took the name of. Where the Bucky reveal worked because he'd been missing in real world time for 40 years and Steve had stewed on Bucky dying for decades.)
Cap 1 had flaws but at least it had heart. Cap 2 was a spy thriller that hinged on us caring about a character we don't care about,(and had no time to miss) and the twist of a major organization we hadn't spent any time with actually being evil The movie was trying to be the payoff of like, 30 years of Captain AMerica films, but.. it was just the second one. So none of the emotional beats really rang true. Same for Civil War which was dour and not fun up until the one sequence that had Spiderman and Ant Man in it.
@Count:
Also, the main problem with Civil War is that it forgets its unique premise about superhero accountability two-thirds through the movie and morphs into a generic conflict about why revenge is bad and everything that seemed like complex moral arguments was just an evil mastermind ploy to exploit insecurities. That and the main conflict being Bucky being framed is just boring and makes the pro-registration side look like idiots instead of having a viable point.
To be fair, the comics had the same problems… where they in theory try to start as balanced but the writers unanimously prefer vigilantes so the pro-registration government side just ends up wrong/corrupt instead of "with a different opinion".
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I DID like the first Cap better than 2 or 3. But maybe that's just because it's Cap fighting in WWII, and that's where he shines.
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I really disliked the 1st Captain America movie. Probably one of my least favorite in the franchise. But I think cause I'm also very tired of stuff set in WWII. Also I didn't care about Captain America until he was in Avengers.
I liked Winter Soldier a lot. It had a couple of my favorite fight scenes in all the MCU.
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I think most people like Iron Man more than Cap, but SOMEBODY has to be the model of morality, and in Marvel that's Captain American and in DC that's Superman.
And I never hated Superman for being a boy scout. That's HIM. A brooding Superman has been shown time and time again to not be what people want. coughmanofsteelcough
I thought it was having a reckless Superman who has a knock down drag em out fight with Zod in a still populated Metropolis…...even though Death Of Superman had this very thing happen in it's final part.....and his world of cardboard speech basically had him knocking around Darkseid across Metropolis's skyline where he deposited him in a crater.
That aside I liked Winter Soldier too while being indifferent to Civil War.
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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Although I added to the 'I dislike Shield' portion of the conversation, I do really like Winter Soldier. Civil War is okay.
Only MCU movie I truly dislike is Age of Ultron.
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But I think cause I'm also very tired of stuff set in WWII.
I definitely agree with this overall, but in the case of Captain America it's absolutely necessary to contextualize his ridiculous name and attire. Because in the current day and age, he's pretty much the dumbest superhero ever with the most sickening patriotic theme.
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I definitely agree with this overall, but in the case of Captain America it's absolutely necessary to contextualize his ridiculous name and attire. Because in the current day and age, he's pretty much the dumbest superhero ever with the most sickening patriotic theme.
Yeah of course it's necessary. But man was he boring. He's a character that I don't feel works well on his own.
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even though Death Of Superman had this very thing happen in it's final part…...
If you're talking about the comic, they tried many, many times to push Doomsday away from the population and move the fightback to the desert. They succeeded a few times even, but dude was determined to go to the city. Supes fought HARD to keep Doomsday out of the city, and when they got to the city is when he stopped flying and using heat vision and such and just got directly in Doomsday's path.
So, with no other options, and the people in danger, Superman just got in his path and slugged it out with him. Their punches shattered the glass around them, but he just took a direct beating at that point specifically to protect people… and he did not toss him through buildings just to throw him though buildings. Supes probably could have won that fight without dying if he hadn't been protecting folks.
and his world of cardboard speech basically had him knocking around Darkseid across Metropolis's skyline where he deposited him in a crater.
The final battle of Justice League show? That entire finale was the writers forgetting everything about the characters. For cripes sake, they ended it with BATMAN saying "Lets give the villains a five minute head start, they earned it."
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If you're talking about the comic, they tried many, many times to push Doomsday away from the population and move the fightback to the desert. They succeeded a few times even, but dude was determined to go to the city. Supes fought HARD to keep Doomsday out of the city, and when they got to the city is when he stopped flying and using heat vision and such and just got directly in Doomsday's path.
So, with no other options, and the people in danger, Superman just got in his path and slugged it out with him. Their punches shattered the glass around them, but he just took a direct beating at that point specifically to protect people… and he did not toss him through buildings just to throw him though buildings. Supes probably could have won that fight without dying if he hadn't been protecting folks.
Well that and DC wanting to make money doing something that was shocking at the time….....and led to a lot of weird (and tacky) shit after the fact all of which was utterly rendered moot.
The final battle of Justice League show? That entire finale was the writers forgetting everything about the characters. For cripes sake, they ended it with BATMAN saying "Lets give the villains a five minute head start, they earned it."
It was funnier when he mulled over letting Joker burn in "Last Laugh".
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Well James Gunn being the hypocrite he is surely got himself into some shitstorm now huh?
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Holy shit this James Gunn situation is…. uuuh.... wow....
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Those tweets were disgusting.
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Who gives a shit about tweets he wrote ELEVEN years ago that he made for shock humor. This is such a non-troversy. He never hid these tweets, Disney was totally aware the kind of off kilter edgey, punk rock indie type director they were bringing on, it's why they hired him. Fuck Disney for being shameless cowards to immediately capitulate to noise generated by the pizzagate conspiracy dickbag.
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Social Media is a big mistake, in general.
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I REALLY don't know how to feel about this.
On the one hand, his explanation is that this was just him being a shitty edgelord shock humorist when he was younger and he's not that guy anymore. The tweets are ELEVEN Years old and he no longer acts this way.
Meanwhile, Roseanne never stopped acting like a shitty edgelord shock humorist as well as shitty dangerous conspiracy theorist and was routinely acting like both of these things on Twitter right before, during, and after Disney revived her show… The Burnt Holocaust cookies thing was a known quantity during production of Season 10 of Roseanne and had the same excuse from Roseanne "It was just me being an edgy shock humorist" and Disney let it slide and kept giving her more chances and asked her to just tone it down on twitter and be a better spokesperson for her show.
They only fired her when she wouldn't stop and in fact said something horribly racist VERY RECENTLY.
Yet James Gunn hasn't acted this way or said shit like this in ELEVEN YEARS and suddenly he immediately gets fired without a second chance or anything........
But a lot of the crap he said back then is REALLY foul.... Ugh.... just..... wow..........
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I REALLY don't know how to feel about this.
On the one hand, his explanation is that this was just him being a shitty edgelord shock humorist when he was younger and he's not that guy anymore. The tweets are ELEVEN Years old and he no longer acts this way.
Meanwhile, Roseanne never stopped acting like a shitty edgelord shock humorist as well as shitty dangerous conspiracy theorist and was routinely acting like both of these things on Twitter right before, during, and after Disney revived her show… The Burnt Holocaust cookies thing was a known quantity during production of Season 10 of Roseanne and had the same excuse from Roseanne "It was just me being an edgy shock humorist" and Disney let it slide and kept giving her more chances and asked her to just tone it down on twitter and be a better spokesperson for her show.
They only fired her when she wouldn't stop and in fact said something horribly racist VERY RECENTLY.
Yet James Gunn hasn't acted this way or said shit like this in ELEVEN YEARS and suddenly he immediately gets fired without a second chance or anything........
But a lot of the crap he said back then is REALLY foul.... Ugh.... just..... wow..........
I want to point out Disney had no way of not knowing about these tweets. The fact that he got fired NOW is totally in bad faith because some alt righters (who say far far worse shit on a good day) dredged them up to attack Gunn. All because he was one of the positive voices fighting against Trumpism. Disney acted rashly because they don't know how to tell the difference between a legitimate controversy or a 4chan hit job.
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Damned if you, damned if you don't.
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@S.C.:
Social Media is a big mistake, in general.
lot of people make the mistake of saying too much at the wrong time, even if they try to delete or backpedal. Alas.
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Who would have guessed that the Left, in their rush to make ANYONE who ever said ANYTHING "problematic" and give them a scarlet letter would be giving right-wing nutjobs the perfect weapon to use against people they don't like.
Nuance, moderation, taking a deep breath before rushing to judgment, looking at the full picture. Social Media destroyed all of those, and now people are going to use it against them.
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I dunno. But I'm definitely side-eyeing someone that makes pedo and or rape jokes. Even from 11 years ago. He wasn't a stupid teen, he was 41. He was a grown ass man making these edgelord statments.
I don't expect many people over the age of forty to grow a new personality.
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I think had this been a prominent MCU or Star Wars actor, there wouldn't have been as swift of an action to tweets a decade old, despite how ridiculously over the top those "jokes" are. Unsurprisingly, Disney doesn't wanna touch that with a ten-foot pole, however I think the fact that it is someone behind the camera -even if they proved to be a money making asset- is why the action happened so quickly.
Like others, I'm mixed. On the one hand, as far as it looks right now, I haven't seen anything claiming Gunn harassing others (including on social media) or treating people in a malicious way. But I understand why a business that primarily targets family audiences doesn't want to be associated with this.
Flipside is this though, while being a doucey edgey guy on Twitter is stupid, is it any worse than some of the writing on other shows?
I mean Family Guy, airing on primetime sunday on FOX, had an episode of Peter "ruining" James Woods career(as if he needed help) by impersonating him and marketing a movie called "september 11th, two thousand-fun!" with describing the film as "two pies in the face, and one in a field in Pennsylvania". Not to mention all the pedophilia jokes with Herbert.
Side Note: Is Family Guy a part of the Fox/Disney deal? Because….well I don't need to say more.
And context will always be key. Yes, there is a difference between someobody's personal twitter and a scripted show that was written and recorded months before it's airtime. But in the context of somebody that is a BIG asset to this franchise, who's films shaped a lot of the more recent MCU(for better or worse is debatable) this seems like a big overreaction instead of choosing to address the issues.
Plus, from what I've seen, the comments are being circulated today because of a push of right wing media trying to prove him a "hypocrite" for speaking out against Trump.
So the point is somebody that made shitty tweets like a doucebag is worse or equal to the guy that does that daily, and also ACTUALLY SEXUALLY ASSAULTED people? And one saw repercussion for comments, not actions, and the other has not for his actions?
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People say stupid shit.
Everyone has, YOU have probably said stupid ignorant and hateful things you wish you could take back. I know I have. I know probably everyone on this forum has.
Second chances, benefit of the doubt, judging who they are TODAY, not who they were, use to be common sense things. Yes, that must come with a realization of the situation and the context of the words, but destroying people's careers and lives because of dumb comments, that's just wrong.
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Pretty cool to see the same people who lost their shit over Snyder's Batman-prison-rape comments now defend a motherfucker who made dozens of pedophile rape jokes as "he was just a young, innocent 30-year old at the time!"
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I hope that his life is not destroyed, but I guess Guardians v3 is.
Also, when exactly do people become completelly incapable of growing and changing? What age I mean? If he's a better director, why couldn't he have grown as well as a person?
I just posted a Ditto getting friendly with an unwilling mon, and then deleted it when I thought about it as it started to make me feel unconfortable, how long should I pay for that offense?
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In the end, it's disheartening to see him go and for this, he was a great director on both Guardian films. But Disney had to play their hand I suppose.
Plus, from what I've seen, the comments are being circulated today because of a push of right wing media trying to prove him a "hypocrite" for speaking out against Trump
side-thought, this is why Twitter is a no-no for politics, imo. In today's time people get very heated over issues, both sides included.
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This is why I never liked caring about the humans behind a product. I don't believe they are relevant to the quality of the product and they just end up tainting it. I have zero idea of what Gunn is in his personal life and his personal ideas are not going to fuck with my life. I don't any personal relationship to him and his personal business doesn't really concern me.
I love Guardian 1 and hate Guardian 2. As far as marvel it seems normal that a companie that is selling product to a mainstream public would rather not associate himself with a problematic figure. There's not much reason for them to risk it. Nice public image is kind of important to them.
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Pretty cool to see the same people who lost their shit over Snyder's Batman-prison-rape comments now defend a motherfucker who made dozens of pedophile rape jokes as "he was just a young, innocent 30-year old at the time!"
There's a world of difference between harmless edgey shock jokes made during an immature indie phase in a director's career and Zack "Sucker Punch" Snyder making a major motion picture rape movie about Batman with all the nuanced understanding he has on the subject.
Also not only do I PROUDLY defend Gunn, I want Disney to rehire him. #RehireJamesGunn
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I'm extremely mixed on this.
The jokes were terrible, but he was called out for them in 2012 and apologized for them back then. Disney had to have known about these tweets when they hired him and looked through his social media history. They were right there in the open.
So why now does Disney decide to fire him when they knew about the tweets and Gunn's apology?
I'm sure you all can guess why.
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Rape jokes are immensely shitty and you are immensely shitty if you were making rape jokes at age 30.
