@HeartOfDarkness:
Oda writes One Piece fights to be "cool", or "fun" not so people can start applying Stanley Kubrick movie level of analysis lol.
This.
It was a fun cool matchup and Oda had Zoro win in a fun cool way with a nice moral message. That's all it was, and I love the fight for that. But I'm not going to treat it as anything more well-written than that kind of surface level appeal.
@theackwardstation:
During the whole fight against Mr. 1, the theme was about overcoming the challenge to cut steel, so Zoro just accomplished exactly what he was trying to learn in that situation. Other than that, his overall skills were enough to outmatch Mr. 1. Therefore, that fight was only a deadline for Zoro, something that usually (even in real life) pushes you towards doing what you have to do. He just had to do it, and it's not something mindblowing that is beyond what you could expect from the character at that point. Far from an asspull. The flashback only gave the readers context and flavor, since whatever was there didn't need to be presented beforehand.
Establishing intent does not automatically justify every type of solution to the conflict ever. Suspension of disbelief and buildup are essential components to making character progression and victories enjoyable as well.
The fact that you literally said Zoro HAD to do it, as if Oda NEEDED to make up whatever on the spot, rather than caring about how convincing Zoro's method of success was proves how weirdly convenient and arbitrary Zoro learning to cut steel was.
@YoungWhite:
That wasn't an asspull.
Very debatable.
1)A character growing in the midst of battle is not an asspull.
That depends on how believable the growth and reasoning for it is.
From the very beginning of the fight Zoro was determined to cut through steel by the end of it. It was not "hammered in our faces" that Zoro was unable to cut daz. Zoro's goal during the fight
was to be able to cut him.
And Luffy's goal is to beat up all of the Yonko and Admirals standing in his way. Doesn't mean he is going to win because of sheer intent or that it would be believable if Luffy beat Aokiji, Kizaru, or Akainu the first time he met them. Zoro's intent is juxtaposed with steel noticeably being a very difficult, if not supposedly impossible element to cut. And given how steel exists and is known to be tough in real life, the question the reader will be thinking is obviously "how will Zoro do something as ridiculous as cutting steel with steel swords? That seems really tough!".
- A character reflecting on teachings they learned prior to us even meeting them isn't an asspull. Zoro wanted to be the worlds greatest growing up so obviously cutting steel would be something that came up during his training.
But we didn't know Zoro learned anything like that prior. It's something Oda inserted during the fight, conveniently right when Zoro is in his very first matchup against an element like steel. Just because it would "obviously" come up at some point during the story (which I doubt), that does not mean this was the greatest way to do it.
- The flashback didn't occur at the very end, It was in the middle of the fight & it wasn't something that needed to be foreshadowed. It was there for context.
This is notable, but even so, it is still a very late time to include it in the story.
- Zoro clearly said he had been waiting to be driven into a corner so he could take it up a notch in strength at the beginning of the fight. That didn't come out of nowhere. Prior to that fight, Zoro never had a real challenge (aside from Mihawk) & he had never been in a position where he could have mastered how to cut steel (the mr 3 situation doesn't count).
Zoro saying that when the fight already started IS debatably out of nowhere. And not only was he never in a position where he could have mastered the art of cutting steel, he never demonstrated any issues with cutting steel in the first place. And in a series as fantastical as One Piece where people have super strength through vague exaggerated background training and willpower, how were we ever supposed to come to the conclusion that a strong swordsman would have trouble against an everyday element like steel when he's already shattering stone and giant sea monsters without a hitch?
- If Zoro said that he could never could steel & then magically cut it, that would have been an asspull. You two are completely ignoring & dismissing all the buildup prior to the cut.
You're ignoring and dismissing how there was no buildup before Zoro came across a steel as an obstacle and learned how to cut it in that very same first experience with a completely new flashback.
@Kfunk:
I wouldn't really call Zoro's cutting steel an asspull, more of a case of typical shonen protagonist getting stronger.
In chapter 129 we see Zoro's training to be able to shatter Steel after Little Garden :
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tbLnD80tHfg/WBqBCEaGLSI/AAAAAAABV3E/hfsxWU9G7gYHouyf_1abyKF8hqEsMoUlwCHM/s16000/0129-019.png
From this page, it was obvious Zoro would need to overcome his limits by cutting steel. Only thing needed was the right opponent to make him push his limits. It was foreshadowed. Maybe not enough but it still was.
Zoro cutting Mr.1 happens in chapter 195, 66 chapters later.
Thanks for pointing that out! But it doesn't really change much about how last minute the flashback/solution was.
Things like Diable Jambe are way worse offenders, imo. I'm still bitter about it even now.
Asura is much, much worse. I can at least decipher Diable Jambe as happening due to friction, even if Sanji did pull the technique out of his ass without any noticeable training or lessons or flashbacks or hints whatever. Asura does not make sense any way in or out of the One Piece universe other than seeming like a cool religious reference.