Also, there will not be any Strawhats vs. Big Mom fight (as arc main antagonists) after this arc. Whereas I can see Big Mom and her crew participating in the Elbaf arc, if so their role will be supporting characters and definitely not main antagonists then.
Chapter 871: "Go Caesar!"
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I agree with ya @Michel_nunes, but honestly people almost have the liberty to say what they want about sanji at this point. Oda simply isnt giving the guy any chance to shine whatsoever. He is downplayed every time.
To be fair his opponents that have bested him to date post timeskip are:
-Doflamingo (which Traffy, Luffy, and almost all else lost to)
-Arguably Vergo? becuase of the cracked leg thing (altho we dont know if Sanji was even using is armament haki at that point)- A gang of 3 of Big Mom's top officuals (Smoothy, Daifuku and The tall lady vs Sanji and Reiju (luffy was k.o.)
It also looks like they are covered in candy so maybe Prospero was a part of that too?
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Well for the people saying stuff about Sanji, seeing as how he's the only 1 conscious while germa and luffy are knocked out, he's obviously about to be put in some fighting position in order to escape. It will also be a way to prove himself to the vinsmokes who still view him as a failure and think themselves superior, and resolve that plot once and for all.
The "Sanji bakes a cake" theory should be dead now, maybe streusen will bake 1 to get the souls of his subordinate chefs back. which can distract big mom for a moment. Pudding will obviously have some role, and she works as a "hostage" to avoid big moms wrath against zeff while also gaining her own freedom by leaving with the crew.
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I don't know what kind of resolution you guys are expecting, the strawhats have accomplished their mission in this arc. Nami said so herself last chapter: we've got the Poneglyph, we've helped save the Vinsmokes, there is zero reason to stay on Wholecake, especially after getting owned by Big Mom's crew. They'll use the Chaos of the castle toppling to save Luffy and the others and then get out of there. Maybe they'll have minor skirmishes here and there, but the arc is basically over.
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Ohh no…... this is even worse
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Galette
The person who restrained Sanji and Reiji is Charlotte Galette. She is at best foddor crew imo and Sanji shouldnt be struggling with her liquid chains. Thats just sad.
The only other person we have seen restrained by Charlotte Galette was Nami…like. eh I'm getting more and more disappointed each chapter in Oda's treatment of Sanji
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i can understand that Oda is not giving him moments to shine, while giving Zoro's, but… he is giving Zoro's weaker oponents and Sanji OP ones, i mean it's ok to complain about Oda not giving Sanji moments to shine
BUT the problem is people JUDGING him from being weak, when he is being put in situations where he CAN'T win, while Zoro IS NOT, if people really want to judge the characters strength they have to take into consideration the oponents they are facing
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No, the cake theory not is dead. The arc is NOT over yet. About the explosion, this really feels like a cheap cop-out unless… unless instead of being the resolution of the climax, the explosion actually starts the real climax by putting the Strawhats in a situation that's actually worse than what we had until now. Something where the Strawhats, especially Luffy and Sanji, are ACTIVELY involved in the resolution.
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Ohh no…... this is even worse
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Charlotte_Galette
The person who restrained Sanji and Reiji is Charlotte Galette. She is at best foddor crew imo and Sanji shouldnt be struggling with her liquid chains. Thats just sad.
The only other person we have seen restrained by Charlotte Galette was Nami…like. eh I'm getting more and more disappointed each chapter in Oda's treatment of Sanji
Galette is capitalizing on what Daifuku and Smoothie have done. You do see the giant genie over Sanji, yes?
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Artemis. I like ur view but Luffy is so ko at this point there is nothing we can do. Unless he has a giant meal then maybe
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- Pudding, obviously will play some major role. Her past with Lola, not so much. What is there to solve there that must take more than a couple of pages?
I still think we're going to learn more about their relationship, but you're probably right and it won't take too long.
- Germa closure has mainly been done last chapter, with Sanji disowning them, and their sacrifice in order to "make amends". What more backstory really is there? The only thing left to know is why the hell the Marine hero of the comics had Sanji's mother's name, which can be answered in an SBS or something;
That still seems too important to be left in an SBS. By "closure," I meant learning whether or not they'll still be trying to take over North Blue, and Reiju being stuck with a family she doesn't seem to fully like. Although now that I think about it, that'll probably only take a page or two to clear up.
- Sanji to get "his moment" is mostly fan wishing; he's been developed a bit more, he's had the plot follow after him, we got him back in the crew and saved his family, which he then basically shoved in their faces; he's going to get a badass fight in Wano 100 %, and since it looks like proper fights this arc are a no go, what do people really expect him to do more?
It doesn't have to be a fight, but he should at least play a major role in the arc's finale.
- Tamago was defeated by Pedro and both fulfilled their role in the arc;
I don't think Oda would give a character a "final form" and not show it off.
- Who even are those 3?
The other Underworld Brokers, although this is admittedly a really minor issue.
- Do you really think Oda is going to get Smoothie to do something meaningful? Really? After all this time? It's a lost cause, I'd say;
You're probably right, but it's still very disappointing
- And more Big Mom backstory, right after we got that flashback? The only thing that can still happen is Streussen's memories of her "eating" the children and Mother being revealed for another twist.
We don't need a full flashback, but it's still a big unexplored part of her personality.
Now that you've gotten me to think about it, most of these will probably be resolved quickly and one after the other, so maybe he really can resolve this by the end of the year.
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@S.C.:
Galette is capitalizing on what Daifuku and Smoothie have done. You do see the giant genie over Sanji, yes?
yea but Sanji looks like he was defeated or restrained without much of a fight if any at all. He's full restrained. I dunno I'm hoping that it's Perospero that rastrained him and not Charlotte Galette, for his own honor's sake.
Anyway I'm with everyone else who wants to see Sanji take someone down this arc. However the arc goes tho I'm just gonna try to trust Oda will be GOda as he has been for 20 years
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Loved this chapter a lot
The CPO undercover reveal, the situation really coming undone, luffy's clash and declaration.
Ton of things happened very fast pace and I'm really doubting this exploding cake solves everything
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No, the cake theory not is dead. The arc is NOT over yet. About the explosion, this really feels like a cheap cop-out unless… unless instead of being the resolution of the climax, the explosion actually starts the real climax by putting the Strawhats in a situation that's actually worse than what we had until now. Something where the Strawhats, especially Luffy and Sanji, are ACTIVELY involved in the resolution.
You still expect Sanji to bake a cake in this situation? There's almost no fighters left on his side meaning there are no potential distractions while Sanji could bake said cake. He's pretty much their best fighter standing until Luffy gets back up, he can't exactly leave such a situation to the others and germa is pretty much dead and needs to be saved. If someone is to bake a cake, Streusen and Pudding could still bake it, especially with Streusen missing for the past several chapters.
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As an aside note, I am so very happy it didn't go the cake route. It would have been a massive disservice to Big Mom as a major antagonist.
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I'm not a fan of the cake theory either, but there's still a chance for it to happen. Big Mom just needs to go into one of her hunger rages.
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And of course the chapter ends up being better than the spoilers.
"Why didn't Sanji attack Big Mom"
"Smoothie still hasn't done anything"Still kind of a bummer the latter wasn't shown more though.
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Yeah, she better not go on her rampage just because of the tametobako and starting attacking her own crew asking for cake. That would be the most plot BS, extreme reliance on luck way of getting out of this arc (it even requires big mom to go out-of-character and spare them). The bomb blowing up is more than enough luck, now i want them to get out of this with their own strength and using their brains. We have the smartest strawhats, capone, and genius scientists on the same side, surely they can think of something.
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No, the cake theory not is dead. The arc is NOT over yet. About the explosion, this really feels like a cheap cop-out unless… unless instead of being the resolution of the climax, the explosion actually starts the real climax by putting the Strawhats in a situation that's actually worse than what we had until now. Something where the Strawhats, especially Luffy and Sanji, are ACTIVELY involved in the resolution.
The cake theory was almost Fairy Tale power of friendship bad from the beginning.
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Yeah, she better not go on her rampage just because of the tametobako and starting attacking her own crew asking for cake. That would be the most plot BS, extreme reliance on luck way of getting out of this arc (it even requires big mom to go out-of-character and spare them). The bomb blowing up is more than enough luck, now i want them to get out of this with their own strength and using their brains. We have the smartest strawhats, capone, and genius scientists on the same side, surely they can think of something.
Also, if they can re-capture Brulee, that would help immensely. Plus, it would be pretty darn funny.
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The cake theory was almost Fairy Tale power of friendship bad from the beginning.
I know a lot of prominent members here were a fan of it, but I thought it was one of the dumbest theories yet. At no point did I even consider that was a possibility.
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I liked the cake theory because it could lead to BM allying with Luffy and my hopes of her Sweet Commanders fighting the Calamities. But as far as Linlin herself goes, I prefer much more the idea of her remaining a major antagonist - instead of becoming another on the huge list of Luffy's supporting female cast.
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Yeah, because "taking your environment's own peculiarity of being made of food and the enemy group's powers of making different ingredients in order to win over a villain known for her gluttony when nobody could actually stop her in a physical confrontation, thereby showing your abusive family that the characteristic that they considered you a failure for is actually a great asset" is comparable to "Fairy Tale power of friendship" and dumb. Seriously, guys? I wasn't sold on the theory either (and with each passing chapter even less so), but this criticism doesn't make sense.
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Yeah, because "taking your environment's own peculiarity of being made of food and the enemy group's powers of making different ingredients in order to win over a villain known for her gluttony when nobody could actually stop her in a physical confrontation, thereby showing your abusive family that the characteristic that they considered you a failure for is actually a great asset" is comparable to "Fairy Tale power of friendship" and dumb. Seriously, guys? I wasn't sold on the theory either (and with each passing chapter even less so), but this criticism doesn't make sense.
No it was just dumb.
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I do agree that the cake theory is very unlikely at this point. Perhaps in the alluded future encounter they might form a "sweets plan" of sorts, but right now there really isn't a good reason to go that route. Even if Big Mom goes on a food rampage randomly, itself something I doubt given Mom now has a lot bigger things going on to fixate her rage on, the SHs & Co would just see that as an opportunity to escape given the rampage would no longer be directed at them and leave the Big Mom Pirates to sort it out on their own.
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not sure if you payed attention to that shot, but there is MORE THAN 1 official there, including smoothie (which you guys were complaining about doing nothing), and he was trying to save luffy's tired ass, how is he supposed to fight in this condition?
overreaction at its finest
I was talking about when he fought the genie guy. He clearly was fighting one on one and losing the match.
I hate to say this, but Sanji is kinda get retconned by Oda since timeskip. He is now just like Kakashi from Naruto.No because Rayleigh is not a Devil Fruit user so it's not the same. "because he himself never become a rubber man before" that means nothing. In a crew like Whitebeard's i'm sure he fought plenty of combats vs devil fruit users and learned what are the weaknesses and how Devil Fruit's works (that's why Blackbeard joined them because the chances to learn and discover devil fruits were greater than with other crews, also Whitebeard got the enciclopedia). Zoro can awaken his COC like Luffy did in Marineford arc but your argument it's not logical (Zoro is going to become the new Rayleigh so he has to surpass him) because you don't know if Zoro is going to awaken that new Haki (like Ussop did for example). Marco is a Devil Fruit user with experience so i'm sure he can awaken his fruit and know a way (like Rayleigh did with Haki) to master it.
Whitebeard remants can train Luffy crew or prepare them to fight Kaidou. I can imagine Marco training Luffy, Zoro training with Vista, CUriel and Izo with Ussop, Blenheim with Brook, Joz with Chopper, Rakuyo with Franky…i don't know but i think they need to prepare a strategie for Kaidou before attacking him.Based from your statement ,then Rayleigh also can teach luffy because he has fought many devil fruit users. It's weird in my opinion how Marco can teach how to get his rubber awakening because he clearly doesn't have the ability (their devil fruit types are very different). In addition , I believe that training won't be necessary because to fight Kaidou+shogun , SH already has enough backups : the mink warriors where each of the leaders can hold his feet against Jack , Jinbei , and Whitebeard pirates (minus WB and Ace)
I also don't think Zoro will awaken CoC. Usopp doesn't learn haki which is why his haki only surfaced now. However, Zoro clearly train his haki from his mentor and still hasn't shown CoC . CoC cannot be gotten , it's just like genetics (only lucky ones get it) and Oda hasn't shown indication that Zoro has dormant CoC (no , his beast eyes against Monet is not CoC because Hawkeye can also do that against Luffy in Marineford)
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Yeah, because "taking your environment's own peculiarity of being made of food and the enemy group's powers of making different ingredients in order to win over a villain known for her gluttony when nobody could actually stop her in a physical confrontation, thereby showing your abusive family that the characteristic that they considered you a failure for is actually a great asset" is comparable to "Fairy Tale power of friendship" and dumb. Seriously, guys? I wasn't sold on the theory either (and with each passing chapter even less so), but this criticism doesn't make sense.
Sounds like someone is seriously underestimating the power of friendship.
Honestly you kind of further cemented my issue with the theory being the convenience and predictability behind it. This arc has already been jam packed to the rim with that sort of stuff and it's just not my taste. Nothing wrong with the theory I think it's a SOLID theory but I wasn't looking forward to it playing out like that.
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I'm actually pretty glad Luffy, Sanji and Germa are down for the count! When the building settles this could be a great time to give Nami, Brook and Chopper some fighting focus! Especially Brook since we could get some clarification on how Brook's abilities counter Big Mom's!
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speaking of other theories not panning out, i'd say this chapter should also end the "Sanji needs a raid suit" theory. It clearly didn't help the vinsmokes defence from not get 1 shot by big mom and katakuri, nor did it power up their offence to being able to hurt them either. The raid suit is clearly not designed for the New World and would provide no benefits to Sanji.
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The cake theory was almost Fairy Tale power of friendship bad from the beginning.
Not really. She was shown at the very beginning of this arc going crazy until she got a specific food. Then she spent the next quarter of the arc talking about how she wanted a cake, which we knew would be destroyed. Add that in with having the chef character as the focal point of the arc, having antagonists who can produce all sorts of different fruits, and it's actually extremely plausible.
That's just not the route it seemed to go.
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I was talking about when he fought the genie guy. He clearly was fighting one on one and losing the match.
I hate to say this, but Sanji is kinda get retconned by Oda since timeskip. He is now just like Kakashi from Naruto.but we didn't see an actual 1 on 1 fight between them, it was just some random shots here and there, and by the way sanji wasn't even trying to fight, he was running away to get to his family, and trying to defend himself
with all the respect but sometimes i think you guys are a bit thristy to judge the characters strength based on some random shots or exchange of hits, and Oda has shown PLENTY OF TIMES that this is not the how he wants to really showcase the character's real strength… i'm gonna give some examples
remember the Yeti Cool Brothers?, before they got easily beaten by Luffy and Franky (on Chopper's body), they were portrayed as super tough guys, they were basically speed blitzing Luffy and doing whatever they wanted, people assumed they were OP at the time... and them when it was the time for them to fight in a real battle, without distractions, they got fodderized
it's basically the same thing when freaking CARROT dodged Zoro's attack and made him struggle for a moment at the beggining of Zou, does it mean that Carrot is as strong as zoro or Zoro is as weak as carrot? NO, this is just exchange of hits and that's it, Oda sometimes uses them to give hype for some characters, or in chaotic situations like the entire Marineford arc lol, but when he REALLY wants to showcase someone's REAL strength he does it in a full focused 1 on 1 match with an actual context, or a big purpose for the plot
we didn't have ANY of that for sanji, when sanji has an actual 1 ON 1 FIGHT without ANY distractions, a full Focused 1 on 1 and he LOSES, them you guys talk about his lack of strength or whatever...
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So all of a sudden it's likely Kaido will be taken out before Big Mom. Luffy will escape and leave her seriously pissed at him and hopefully we'll see matchups of Big Mom's crew and the Straw Hats in the future. If that's the case this is a nice bit of build up of the Big Mom's Pirates but I still wanted to see more focus on their characters and some more of them individually, though I understand how the plot is so deep a lot of things are going on so Oda doesn't focus in like he used to. I especially want to see more of Big Mom's strength, we're talking about one of the four most powerful pirates in the world. If she's Yonko level a falling castle can't be a big deal surely.
It also seems likely Big Mom may have already fought Kaido and witnessed how he's incapable of dying, the way she referred to him as a "thing" implies they've met before and is further build up of Kaido being not human. Now I'm convinced Luffy will defeat Big Mom after Kaido but in a completely different situation. So this arc could finish without the fall of a Yonko or will Oda wipe Big Mom out now to quicken things up? I'd prefer the wait the more of One Piece the better.
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JB version in case it wasn't posted 4 hours ago for some reason:https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/871/page/1
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but we didn't see an actual 1 on 1 fight between them, it was just some random shots here and there, and by the way sanji wasn't even trying to fight, he was running away to get to his family, and trying to defend himself
with all the respect but sometimes i think you guys are a bit thristy to judge the characters strength based on some random shots or exchange of hits, and Oda has shown PLENTY OF TIMES that this is not the how he wants to really showcase the character's real strength… i'm gonna give some examples
remember the Yeti Cool Brothers?, before they got easily beaten by Luffy and Franky (on Chopper's body), they were portrayed as super tough guys, they were basically speed blitzing Luffy and doing whatever they wanted, people assumed they were OP at the time... and them when it was the time for them to fight in a real battle, without distractions, they got fodderized
it's basically the same thing when freaking CARROT dodged Zoro's attack and made him struggle for a moment at the beggining of Zou, does it mean that Carrot is as strong as zoro or Zoro is as weak as carrot? NO, this is just exchange of hits and that's it, Oda sometimes uses them to give hype for some characters, or in chaotic situations like the entire Marineford arc lol, but when he REALLY wants to showcase someone's REAL strength he does it in a full focused 1 on 1 match with an actual context, or a big purpose for the plot
we didn't have ANY of that for sanji, when sanji has an actual 1 ON 1 FIGHT without ANY distractions, a full Focused 1 on 1 and he LOSES, them you guys talk about his lack of strength or whatever...
Sanji fought Doflamingo 1 on 1 and he lost in 3 pages (Doflamingo wasn't even using his best arsenals) .
Sanji fought 1 on 1 against Vergo and his legs got broken (Sanji then said something like "Ughhh , if the match kept continuing ,then …" )Yeti Cool Brothers are actually great. They tricked Sanji/Zoro into sleeping gas and almost killed them.
I know Oda often used hypes to new characters , which is why I said Sanji is always used as fodder (for new characters) .Zoro got surprised by Carrot's movement which is inhuman but it's just a surprise attack .
Sanji expected upcoming attack from genie (so it's not a surprise attack) and tried to defend against genie's attack , then turned out genie's is stronger.Sanji PTS is a cool gentleman with grand entrance on his fight. Current Sanji is a dumb pervert who can be beaten in 3 pages. (It's like Zoro absorbed all the coolness from Sanji and put it inside himself)
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That sounds perverted bro, that last sentence I mean.
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@$abZ:
It also seems likely Big Mom may have already fought Kaido and witnessed how he's incapable of dying
That would be an interesting thing to show. I feel that we need some of the Yonko relationships fleshed out. It's inconceivable to me that the Yonko didn't have skirmishes in the past (Shankds and Kaido definitely had before Marineford) and showing us at least some panels of those fights would flesh out the New World in a positive way.
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There's nothing worse than power scale discussions in OP, especially when sanji is concerned. Sure he hasnt one zoro cutting pica in half moment but he hasnt been a punching bag either
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
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Sanji fought Doflamingo 1 on 1 and he lost in 3 pages (Doflamingo wasn't even using his best arsenals) .
Sanji fought 1 on 1 against Vergo and his legs got broken (Sanji then said something like "Ughhh , if the match kept continuing ,then …" )Yeti Cool Brothers are actually great. They tricked Sanji/Zoro into sleeping gas and almost killed them.
I know Oda often used hypes to new characters , which is why I said Sanji is always used as fodder (for new characters) .Zoro got surprised by Carrot's movement which is inhuman but it's just a surprise attack .
Sanji expected upcoming attack from genie (so it's not a surprise attack) and tried to defend against genie's attack , then turned out genie's is stronger.Sanji PTS is a cool gentleman with grand entrance on his fight. Current Sanji is a dumb pervert who can be beaten in 3 pages. (It's like Zoro absorbed all the coolness from Sanji and put it inside himself)
Cant tell if trolling or brainless. Sanji one shotted yonjis face. He also took care of the marines and tashigi at PH while fending of nerve gas. He was also caught in a surprise attack with doffy where as Zorro surprise attack with carrot.. he also took care of kaido crew at zou. He also handled his dad on equal footing. He also was easily paring daifuku. He also easily knocked out whatever guard caught him while he was going off to sneak food. He also turned a spiteful woman into a women wet with love for him in the blink of an eye. Or three eyes rather. Sheesh reread the manga and come back.
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@Long:
There's nothing worse than power scale discussions in OP, especially when sanji is concerned. Sure he hasnt one zoro cutting pica in half moment but he hasnt been a punching bag either
This arc hurt his character. He is not only putting his crew in danger (he had to know what would happen don't defend his actions) also his chemistry with Luffy HIS CAPTAIN is just down right awful. Just bad. Not to mention he has barely shown off anything new or impressive ability-wise whether it be cooking(on a food island) or fighting. The dodged bullet was impressive ever since Virgo cracked his leg he has been made to look worse and worse in my opinion. Even his smoking isn't as cool. Poor Sanji.
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Like Sanji could solo the entire Charlotte Family.:getlost:
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Can't people be impressed that Sanji is stronger than the germa boys ? Or are you already branding them as fodder for losing against a yonko's crew :getlost:
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This is the same thing to shit on Usopp for not defeating Trebol on Dressrosa besides that magnificent sniping.
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Sanji fought Doflamingo 1 on 1 and he lost in 3 pages (Doflamingo wasn't even using his best arsenals) .
Sanji fought 1 on 1 against Vergo and his legs got broken (Sanji then said something like "Ughhh , if the match kept continuing ,then …" )Yeti Cool Brothers are actually great. They tricked Sanji/Zoro into sleeping gas and almost killed them.
I know Oda often used hypes to new characters , which is why I said Sanji is always used as fodder (for new characters) .Zoro got surprised by Carrot's movement which is inhuman but it's just a surprise attack .
Sanji expected upcoming attack from genie (so it's not a surprise attack) and tried to defend against genie's attack , then turned out genie's is stronger.Sanji PTS is a cool gentleman with grand entrance on his fight. Current Sanji is a dumb pervert who can be beaten in 3 pages. (It's like Zoro absorbed all the coolness from Sanji and put it inside himself)
LOL, "zoro got surprised by carrot's movement" wow, so this is an actual factor that we should considerate to not downplay zoro, but Sanji's body being damaged before Vergo's fight (he felt NAMI'S PUNCH), and Sanji not having ANY idea of Doflamingo's hability beforehand IS NOT, lmao…
not to mention that Doflamingo is a beast, he destroyed Law and was easily dealing with G2 luffy, until he got his organs F'ed up by Law's attack, not to mention that whole fight happened while he was using the bird cage in the entire city, but none of this counts as an argument i suppose, but "being surprised by carrots movement, poor zoro" is... smh
"yeti cool brothers are great" we're talking about character's strenght here, NOT if they are likable or not, and the thing is they were heavily hyped before the fight with Luffy and Franky, and everyone misjudged their actual strenght because, like always... the THRIST to talk about power levels are TOO STRONG, that people judge a characters strenght in one or 2 panels without context, and without knowing Oda's way of doing work
and again... he barely fought with the guy, he was trying to defend himself and running away to save his family, not a 1 on 1 fight, but none of this counts of course, but "getting surprised by carrot's movement" obviously does lol
look, it's ok to dislike the character, you can hate all you want, i'm not the biggest fan either, but up until this point he didn't have an actual 1 on 1 Full focused fight, like Zoro had with Pica for ex, just some exchanges here and there, sometimes in chaotic situations that doesn't mean a thing, and sometimes against characters that he shouldn't beat because it would be against Oda's logic (Doflamingo, BM's crew and etc)
it's ALL OVERREACTIONthe only thing, that i agree with is that Oda doesn't like to put Zoro in unfavorable situations as of late, but instead of looking into the context of those moments and THEM JUDGE people would rather blindly judge and take things out of context... to summ it up, is TS Sanji NOT shining at fights? yes he is not, does it make him weak? NOPE, because he is being put in situations that he shouldn't win, that's on ODA, NOT ON SANJI, complain all you want about Oda not letting him have fair fights without distractions, but don't judge his real strength because of it, it's 2 different things
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This arc hurt his character. He is not only putting his crew in danger (he had to know what would happen don't defend his actions) also his chemistry with Luffy HIS CAPTAIN is just down right awful. Just bad. Not to mention he has barely shown off anything new or impressive ability-wise whether it be cooking(on a food island) or fighting. The dodged bullet was impressive ever since Virgo cracked his leg he has been made to look worse and worse in my opinion. Even his smoking isn't as cool. Poor Sanji.
Are u kidding -___-
Luffy and Sanji chemistry is PERFECTLY FINE
Was Luffy/Nami chemistry destroyed when Nami stole their ship and took it to arlong?
Was Luffy/Usopp chemistry destroyed when they battled over the Merry?
Was Luffy/Zoro chemistry destroyed when Zoro threatened with a drawn sword & grabbing luffys face to leave if his captain went to get Usopp back?
Was Luffy/Nico relationship destroyed when Robin went AWOL in the middle of a mission to get a new ship?There are NECESSARY skirmishes on the crew. And the crew chemistry is always BETTER for it.
Also did you just want Sanji to NOT leave for WCI? Even though the true father who saved his life was about to die? Owner Zeff gave sanji ALL food he had and only kept a bag of treasure for himself and he ate his own leg so that sanji and himself could survive. Sanji is just supposed to shrug that off as whatever if they are threatened?
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What a delicious chapter. The subtleties shown are what I like seeing in One Piece. Although the castle tumbling down gives a bit more leeway for the cake to come into play, now that the citizens have been involved I would still prefer it being played out differently. I do think if that is the course of action taken, it has to happen within this set of chapters, or be left as a cliffhanger for the next.
Bartolomeo going around selling Luffy paraphernalia was hilarious, I had been wondering what they were up to. I guess in a sense he could be ~recruiting~ members, but leaving it as propaganda, is just genius.
Among the subtleties, is the difference between the Big Mom pirates being caught off guard and not, in just a few chapters apart. The results are evident, the escape plan seemed utterly futile, while crashing the wedding they were slow at reacting and had a false sense of dominance. In a way, it is a shame that we do not get to see Smoothie directly in action, but to me it works even better. It shows the competence of the Big Mom pirates even without two of their commanders(Cracker and Snack), and the Smoothie rarely doing anything. Even with that, they completely turned the tables on the alliance.
Not to mention Big Mom clearly being on a league of her own, pretty much swatting away anyone that comes in her path easily. I am not sure if she had anything to do with Luffy going back to base form. Luffy's comment and how Big Mom was holding her hand makes it seem that she is responsible. However, Luffy is indeed not in tip top shape. I always talk about stamina and how it is easily overlooked, but this exchange is clearly showing the effects of that.
Another highlight is the crew reminding Caesar his place. The fact they did it twice was on point as well. As much as I am not entirely surprised the government had infiltrated the wedding, it was a pleasant surprise to see it was Stussy. Looking forward to see if her involvement somehow ties in with CP0's past with Big Mom. I wonder what Morgans will publish at the end of this arc.
Kaido being "that" raises a whole lot of questions about his origins. At this point it seems likely he is like Chopper, a beast that ate some sort of human model fruit. Her words also hint at the fact you cannot "defeat" Kaido, which touches upon what Oda said that his defeat wouldn't be the conventional one punch thing.
Judge oh Judge. The 66 days of hope, is it something relating to the origin of the name Germa 66? And they have been a sea-faring nation for 300 years. Although, him getting Pikachu'd was funny too. Big Mom keeps talking about world peace, what a twisted woman.
In regards of Sanji cooking, although this may not be the most optimal way, or a bit cheesy. I would love to see him using his cooking skills to feed his crew after such encounter, and his family as well. There we can learn a bit more about Vinsmokes' history and we can even get a couple of panels where Sanji's siblings appreciate the food and show some ~feelings~ of enjoyment while eating and celebrating getting out of Big Mom's territory alive.
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If we're still on the subject of Sanji, I wonder after this arc, if he'll get a more serious version of Hell Memories of having his traumatic childhood brought back up after so long? Plenty of fuel for the fire with it.
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How to keep OP followers happy?If the fight lasts for 3 pages–>'' It's not long enough! another short-cut and cut out. Bummer! the pacing has been heavily affected! nuuoooooooo!''
If the fight lasts for 4 pages-->''How dare you Oda. Why are you playing with our time by dragging on this arc. Aghhh I wanna see the next next next arc already, this one is getting stagnated! nuoooooooo!''.
Seriously?.. hahahahah
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@S.C.:
If we're still on the subject of Sanji, I wonder after this arc, if he'll get a more serious version of Hell Memories of having his traumatic childhood brought back up after so long? Plenty of fuel for the fire with it.
I'm kinda just hoping Oda decided to forget about that abomination known as hell memories and move on.
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LOL, "zoro got surprised by carrot's movement" wow, so this is an actual factor that we should considerate to not downplay zoro, but Sanji's body being damaged before Vergo's fight (he felt NAMI'S PUNCH), and Sanji not having ANY idea of Doflamingo's hability beforehand IS NOT, lmao…
not to mention that Doflamingo is a beast, he destroyed Law and was easily dealing with G2 luffy, until he got his organs F'ed up by Law's attack, not to mention that whole fight happened while he was using the bird cage in the entire city, but none of this counts as an argument i suppose, but "being surprised by carrots movement, poor zoro" is... smh
"yeti cool brothers are great" we're talking about character's strenght here, NOT if they are likable or not, and the thing is they were heavily hyped before the fight with Luffy and Franky, and everyone misjudged their actual strenght because, like always... the THRIST to talk about power levels are TOO STRONG, that people judge a characters strenght in one or 2 panels without context, and without knowing Oda's way of doing work
and again... he barely fought with the guy, he was trying to defend himself and running away to save his family, not a 1 on 1 fight, but none of this counts of course, but "getting surprised by carrot's movement" obviously does lol
look, it's ok to dislike the character, you can hate all you want, i'm not the biggest fan either, but up until this point he didn't have an actual 1 on 1 Full focused fight, like Zoro had with Pica for ex, just some exchanges here and there, sometimes in chaotic situations that doesn't mean a thing, and sometimes against characters that he shouldn't beat because it would be against Oda's logic (Doflamingo, BM's crew and etc)
it's ALL OVERREACTIONthe only thing, that i agree with is that Oda doesn't like to put Zoro in unfavorable situations as of late, but instead of looking into the context of those moments and THEM JUDGE people would rather blindly judge and take things out of context... to summ it up, is TS Sanji NOT shining at fights? yes he is not, does it make him weak? NOPE, because he is being put in situations that he shouldn't win, that's on ODA, NOT ON SANJI, complain all you want about Oda not letting him have fair fights without distractions, but don't judge his real strength because of it, it's 2 different things
His body was fatiqued , but his bones are still healthy. However, when he was fighting Vergo , who wasn't becoming full-hardened , got his legs brokens which
shows Vergo got stronger CoA. Then…..Vergo w/full CoA got OHKO by Law (so .... Sanji doesn't always fight the strongest unbeatable enemy , right?)
Sanji didn't know Doflamingo's power and neither Doflamingo knew Sanji's power. It would not be a fair match for Doflamingo by the way if Sanji had known his skill (this is a fair match 1 vs 1 ,right?) .I put "surprise attack by Carrot's movement" because surprise attacks in OP can become deadly , e.g. : WB got stabbed by Squad because he was careless. Meanwhile , all atacks (from Dofla/Vergo/Genie guy) coming to Sanji are always expected by Sanji , and those attacks overpowered him.
Guess what , by the way , Sanji actually is one of my fav characters , but I do acknowledge that current Sanji is pretty much a punching bag for strong characters.
I also didn't complain. In the beginning, I was just replying to your post (this is a forum to discuss One Piece manga ,isn't it?)Cant tell if trolling or brainless. Sanji one shotted yonjis face. He also took care of the marines and tashigi at PH while fending of nerve gas. He was also caught in a surprise attack with doffy where as Zorro surprise attack with carrot.. he also took care of kaido crew at zou. He also handled his dad on equal footing. He also was easily paring daifuku. He also easily knocked out whatever guard caught him while he was going off to sneak food. He also turned a spiteful woman into a women wet with love for him in the blink of an eye. Or three eyes rather. Sheesh reread the manga and come back.
How ironic that you somehow become the brainless one , chimp.
I never said Sanji became the weakest character in entire OP , I just said he often become the fodder for other characters .Of course Sanji had roles in the story (Usopp also helped defeating Sugar , Chopper helped healing the PH children).
Yes, current Sanji can fight mid-tier fighters , but like I said he still become a fodder for other characters like Vergo/DoflaLike I said, current Sanji lost his coolness .He even became a prince(ss) who needs Luffy's helps , just like two girls from Strawhats.
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I'm kinda just hoping Oda decided to forget about that abomination known as hell memories and move on.
Hell's Memories is awesome you fiend!
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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It doesn't mean close to as much losing at half strength to big mom as it meant being completely outclassed from 1-9 against kizaru. The defeats are off screen for a reason. We will be seeing these guys again.
What is there to even hide at this point though? We already know the powers for all of Big Mom's crew besides maybe Galette. Oda's not bothering to keep them a secret like he's been doing for the Blackbeard Pirates. I understand maybe hiding Big Mom's strength until she fully rampages, but there's not really a reason why we can't see the crewmates wreck Sanji and the Vinsmokes on-panel.
Game and Guy ninja'd what I was going to answer. The comparison isn't valid because the points of each development are widely different. The entire goal of Sabãody in terms of storytelling was to have the Straw Hats utterly crushed. The scene with the Forces of Rage defeating Luffy and Nami (and King Baum, RIP) was supposed to be extremely dramatic, showing Luffy fighting against impossible odds, under the falling rain and thunderstorm. Here, we're just treated to the Alliance being overwhelmed by an Emperor's Horde as if it means nothing to them (Warcraft pun, if anyone catches
), just like Smoothie mentioned last chapter: "They thought they could walk all over us." They were just proven wrong.On another note, lol an people complaining that Sanji is weak and should be demoted from the monster trio in a chapter where EVERYONE is downed by an Emperor's full might. Wth.
I disagree because we got plenty of time dedicated to seeing Luffy also lose in pretty much every arc from Alabasta to Dressrosa against an arc antagonist. Those arcs weren't solely about Luffy suffering a loss and dealing with the consequences like Sabaody Archipelago. All people are asking for is something like Alabasta and Impel Down, where Luffy visibly lost with plenty of panel time dedicated to it but still recovers and escapes. And seeing the Straw Hats get pummeled would have been an excellent way to test suspense for the fans about if they can really escape rather than skipping right to the result. Gear Fourth fared decently against Doflamingo and Cracker with the time limit being the main weakness while this could have been the first real chance to see Gear Fourth get wrecked even power wise instead of just one block. Just look at that line of panels where Luffy said he'll take down Big Mom after he finishes off Kaido. That would have been the perfect moment to turn his world upside down on where he stands in getting either of those things done, let alone both. Instead of just deflating after one clash. That, and I really want to see Big Mom get some nice combat feats. But I'm sure we will get that when she goes berserk over her cake castle being wrecked.
Don't really like how Oda skipped all the defeats.
I disagree, skipping to the consequence makes the story less appealing.
For example, I enjoyed their Shabondy defeat. They were totally outclassed, actually making me believe "oh, they are doomed". Would have been pretty insignificant if all of it got skipped after Luffy being blocked by Sentoumaru and Brook couldn´t hit Borsalino.
Recently, we at least had the terrific sequence of Luffy being flattened by 2 gigantic haki-fists after he got caught off-guard by the book illusion. Even though I rooted for him to beat the whole army and stay there to keep his promise to Sanji, that defeat was well-done.Now this ending here is just weak from my perspective. Yes it´s just my personal opinion. I am not mad or anything, just a bit disappointed. And yeah the box doing exactly what everyone expected is unexciting, just like reading the chapter after spoilers.
Since the beginning, I was expecting BM to mop the floor with them just to showcase they got extremely lucky to escape alive…skipping how they get owned is unsatisfactory. Except for that missing part, the chapter was really good.
Anyway, I´ve been feeling this for a while, One Piece has become too large for a forced weekly serialization and would require at least 3x the number of pages per wek to keep its high quality, but it´s not humanly possible for the author to do that in that time frame.
Way too much stuff that would be surely amazing to read is simply skipped these days :sad:
@.access:
BM Pirates, so good to see they actually winning for once. I am still annoyed by the fact every time they manage to do something right it is offscreen (Cracker manage to overpower Luffy for 12 HOURS? Let's offscreen that and only go back when Luffy is about to turn things), but who knows? Maybe Oda is avoiding to show them fighting so he can save that for later.
@Big:
After reading the chapter in full I am disappointed how the important fight was short-cut.
This wasn't meant to be some kind of mega-epic 10 chapter battle, but directing at least one full chapter towards Luffy vs Big Mom might have been a far better pacing instead of really not more than a few pages-
I don't like to say this, but the various short-cuts Oda took this arc left a rather bad impression on me. Two other examples this arc were Luffy vs. Cracker and the whole predicament with Caesar.
My general feeling is that Oda has to some extent consistent problems with the pacing and structure of the arcs since Fishman island. Now don't get me wrong, this arc has a very creative setting and general storyline which differentiates pleasantly from many other arc and in terms of that it really stands out. But the short-cuts he made were, for me at least, rather annoying. We had arcs that were unnecessarly drawn out in Fishman island and especially Dressrosa. Totland seems to me the opposite, where the problem isn't the amount of various plots, but rather the shortening.
I agree with all four of you. I'm sure that we'll get plenty of exciting panel time once Big Mom rampages over her castle being destroyed, but having this fight off-paneled, Brook vs Big Mom off-paneled, Brook vs Smoothie skipped, Brulee/Diesel/Randolph get stomped with a plan formed off-panel in a place that was reached off-panel, and Nami learning about Cracker's weakness to water off-panel (I don't mind us not seeing all 12 hours if it was just a stalemate, but I would have at least liked to see how Nami put her wits to use instead of automatically knowing the answer) is all rather… Meh. I think part of the blame can go to Oda being disinterested in giving female characters fights unless they either have hax powers/psychological weaknesses or female opponents. Hence why Katakuri and Perospero have been doing all the work for the entire wedding while Galette is stomping on Luffy as if she actually contributed to capturing them, the fraud.
I liked the rest of the chapter though. Stussy being a CP0 agent is out of nowhere, but I knew that CP0 had to find some way to be present so that Big Mom's flashback is relevant outside of just explaining the reason behind motivations and behavior we already knew about. And Oda likes to pull "this minor character is really a villain just because" out of nowhere ever since Kuro and CP9. So I'm cool with it. I'm glad that Judge got some action, even if he did immediately fail (I wish that panel of Big Mom chewing his spear was bigger because that looks awesomely intimidating).
I think Gear Fourth Luffy should have lasted longer, but on the other hand, I'm glad that Gear Fourth Luffy didn't get stomped like a fly either. Because he should give a Yonko a decent push at this point even if it's obvious that he'll lose. This is the first time that anybody has actually blocked a Gear Fourth attack without being broken in some way.
I only wonder how big the cake Sanji is going to bake needs to be considering the size of the wedding cake and the castle. It's hard to believe it could be as big as either of those structures, although having a small cake being the best thing Big Mom has ever tasted would be a nice testament to Sanji's cooking skills. I'm expecting this to happen to Big Mom:
!
So far, One Piece was never the kind of story where protagonists backtrack and revisit places - Sabaody being the one exception, but with very good reason. It's always been about going forward in an adventure and discovering new places, and so it would be a disappointment to dedicate a second arc to Fishman Island. Big Mom will certainly try to exert revenge and events may take place there, but I don't think they'll be the focus of any major StrawHats-centered arc. A few panels here and there similar to what we've seen of Reverie, or a cover story. But if Big Mom is seen again later (I'm still thinking BlackBeard or someone will step in and finish her weakened country after the arc is done), I'd much rather it were in some unknown place that we get to discover at the same time.
I expect a return to Fishman Island at some point, but definitely not anytime soon. After Elbaf at the least, which is around the time where sights on taking a u-turn to wherever Raftel is and any necessary pit stops may be formed. Or right after Raftel. Right now, we're in the middle of Road Poneglyph hunting and having a random return arc after three arcs of getting Road Poneglyphs seems too spontaneous for Oda to do. It's because I see this coming so late in the plot that I can never really see Big Mom being the one responsible for threatening Fishman Island. I think that's a red herring, actually. Probably for, I don't know, Blackbeard testing Pluton on Mariejois/Fishman Island or something when the Final War comes more into focus. Those are just my thoughts though, I don't expect much agreement on that yet.
I think CP0 will probably be the midbosses for the final World Government clash.
I see them showing up in Elbaf, actually. Think about it. CP0 ties into the Revolutionaries. The Revolutionaries tie into Kuma. Kuma ties into Vegapunk. Vegapunk ties into the Gigantification plotline. The Gigantification plotline is connected to Caesar and Big Mom, who's entire flashback was dedicated towards being inspired to make the people as giant as people on Elbaf. Add in Elbaf being the place where the fourth Road Poneglyph is, maybe an Admiral, and perhaps the Red Hair and/or Blackbeard Pirates showing in some form or fashion, and boom, you have another grand "ALL THE PIECES CONNECT, ODA'S A GENIUS" arc reaction. There's also that giant World Tree that might be connected to the Adam and Eve trees, which likely have a connection to the origin of Devil Fruits (which Oda confirmed that Vegapunk will reveal "soon" in an SBS).
And it's hard for me to see CP0 becoming main arc antagonists again since villains hardly ever get recycled in action-adventure shonen if they have already been defeated by the protagonist, in which case that's CP9. Not that Rob Lucci has to be the leader of CP0.
And yet, it still feels like we have a ton to resolve by the end.
Must resolve:
-The escape
-Pudding, and her past with Lola
-Germa closure, which will likely include more backstory
-A guarantee that Big Mom won't go after Zeff, and/or other Strawhat family members
-Sanji getting "his moment"Other loose ends:
-Commander Snack
-Tamago/Niwatori
-Pekoms
-Pound
-Opera
-Umit, Gibberson and Peclo doing something
-Smoothie doing something
-More Big Mom backstory, we still don't know why she wants so many kids, but no husbandsI'm enjoying the pace of this arc so far, but I don't see how Oda can resolve all of this before 2018 like he promised.
I can see him resolving everything before the year ends in, say, over ten chapters into the 880's. But this arc would then last until the Fall or even early Winter. There are definitely plotlines to resolve, but all of these things can be done in quick group swoops.
How to keep OP followers happy?If the fight lasts for 3 pages–>'' It's not long enough! another short-cut and cut out. Bummer! the pacing has been heavily affected! nuuoooooooo!''
If the fight lasts for 4 pages-->''How dare you Oda. Why are you playing with our time by dragging on this arc. Aghhh I wanna see the next next next arc already, this one is getting stagnated! nuoooooooo!''.
Seriously?.. hahahahah
Nobody in their right mind should be complaining about anything in this arc getting dragged. Especially compared to Dressrosa. If you're talking about anybody who was complaining about the Seducing Woods lasting for too long, that was obviously nonsense.
