I'll never understand people who play games and ignore the worlds that color them.
General Zelda thread
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Weak .
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What exactly did you not like about it?
I remember not being fond of the tutorial prompt messages for lift/pushing heavy stuff not going away after you get the items needed to move them. And the Power/Acorn thing got a little repetitive, especially when it temporary changes the music into this noise that loops after 3 seconds. Still not anything that made the game less brilliant.
Because I went straight to the dungeons and didn't go out of my way talking to every NPC? Then I realised I had to?
It wasn't as bad when I revisted the game, since I went back in thinking that quest locked down every following dungeon afterwards. Either way, I still orignally quit playing because of that.
I actually quit the game a few years ago after getting lost and realizing that fetch quest was actually not optional. It was kinda irritating after vastly ignoring it and seeing I needed go back to do a series of random events to deliver a pineapple or something. Came back to the game after some time I used a guide for all that stuff. I play the games for the dungeons, puzzles, mini-games and challenges tbh. Fetch questing just bogs down the pace, especially mandatory ones like that one.
All of this right here, is what I didn't like about Links Awakening.
I'll probably finish it at some point in the future anyway.
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You should tho. It actually became the best Zelda game for me. There are just little things about it that didn't age very well.
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Because I went straight to the dungeons and didn't go out of my way talking to every NPC? Then I realised I had to?
It wasn't as bad when I revisted the game, since I went back in thinking that quest locked down every following dungeon afterwards. Either way, I still orignally quit playing because of that.
Reminds me of Nintendo Power's number one tip, Talk to everyone.
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Talking to NPC's in a Zelda game? Surely you jest!
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Talking to NPC's in a Zelda game? Surely you jest!
Ahaha, that's what I thought as well.
For me it was pretty much the opposite. I felt so cool and awesome doing all those optional stuff… only to find out that it wasn't optional stuff AT ALL!
It basically went from "great job man, here is your reward for your extra efforts" to "LOL you were always supposed to do that, you dolt!"
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Talking to NPC's in a Zelda game? Surely you jest!
It's so hilarious to see people pick apart OoT for having a relatively empty world with boring NPCs and not enough soul, and then suddenly "wahh wahh I actually have to acknowledge the existence of NPCs in my Zelda game!?"
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If you're not juggling at least three different side quests at the same time then you're playing a Zelda game wrong
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Side-quests and interacting with NPC's are some of my favorite things about Zelda games, especially in Majora's Mask.
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@Purple:
If you're not juggling at least three different side quests at the same time then you're playing a Zelda game wrong
What do you mean it's not wrong?
People actually experience games differently?
Oh man. Go figure.Seriously fellas. Cut out these snide sarcastic remarks. It doesn't look very good at all.
You know? There's actually a human being out there that completed Orarina of Time with the disability to see.
Sure, he had help from friends but who is anyone to say you need vision to play a Zelda game(or any game) ?
Does it really matter how someone chooses to play a game, as long as they enjoy it?I swear. I don't really like throwing around the word "fanboy" at all, but there's better ways to discuss aspects about a game you like that others aren't really fond of.
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And it's great that he managed to complete the game blind, but at the same time it kinda foregoes a lot of what the game design is focused on? One of the biggest appeals for Zelda sorta games is just exploring the wide world and seeing what else there is to it, which is why games like Skyward Sword suffer in design and get criticized as such because it forces a linearity onto the gameplay that takes away the adventure aspect. Sure, you can run through the game and go from dungeon A -> dungeon B, but generally the design of these games involves dungeon A opening up time to meander as you please on your way to dungeon B. I mean you don't have to like those qualilties, but it's kind of a strange criticism when the whole game series is focused on action-adventure gameplay and saying "I don't like the adventure portion of it"
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Adventure is a very broad thing tho. Talking to NPCs is just one example of adventure out of dozens. That, and different Zelda titles do certain aspects better than others.
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Yeah I mean enjoying a game the way you want is one thing, but criticizing a game for including stuff that enriches it and its genre is weird – especially when there was just criticism of those very qualities being lacking. Which is different from criticizing elements of a game that don't mesh well with its structure.
Also to piggyback off Purple Hermit, if you enjoy something one way and are happy, good for you. But that doesn't mean it's the best or intended way to experience it. I do legitimately get sad when really powerful elements of a game get brushed off by my friends who don't take the time to appreciate them.
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Because I went straight to the dungeons and didn't go out of my way talking to every NPC? Then I realised I had to?
This is not the game series for you.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That, and different Zelda titles do certain aspects better than others.
You're going to be hard pressed though to argue Link's Awakening didn't do NPC's well.
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@Monkey:
This is not the game series for you.
Is the series really as seclusive as you are making it out to be? Or "trying" to make it out be?
That's a bold thing to say. I played and completed every single Zelda game.
Minus Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Four Swords and Skyward Sword. Link Between Worlds is another one, but I'm actually planning on getting it soon.I only played Link's Awakening very late. Like early this year after putting it off the first time.
Admittedly I'm not heavily invested in the Zelda series like I used. I mean, I'm still a fan. But Twilight Princess just sort of soured my interest in immediatly picking up new ones at full price. Nothing to do with the current topic here, but Zelda's great when it's great.
@Monkey:
You're going to be hard pressed though to argue Link's Awakening didn't do NPC's well.
I didn't even argue or say that. You are kind of forgetting(or skimmed over me saying) that I revisted the title, gave a chance and now consider it a masterpiece in the series. As characters in the setting, I like them a whole lot. It made the world feel as alive as Majora's Mask, along with many other aspects(like the overworld being tightly packed and filled with variety). I just didn't like that one moment where I hit a block in the journey because I had retrace my steps to trade a series of items before progressing. The nature of that quest made it look as though it was completely optional on the surface at first… so. I still think other Zelda titles handled things like that better. Hard press it all you like. I can make examples if you want =:3
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Is the series really as seclusive as you are making it out to be? Or "trying" to make it out be?
That's a bold thing to say. I played and completed every single Zelda game.Overworld screwing around is a really big part of Zelda games since at least Link's Awakening itself though. Hard not to consider it one of the pillars of the series.
Admittedly I'm not heavily invested in the Zelda series like I used. I mean, I'm still a fan. But Twilight Princess just sort of soured my interest in immediatly picking up new ones at full price. Nothing to do with the current topic here, but Zelda's great when it's great.
leans back in rocking chair
Mmm, actually same is true of me more or less.
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Lol yeah. Fuck TP. Is there some sort of development-side excuse for why they dropped the ball so much on that one? Easily the least memorable [non-CDI] title.
…Pumpkin soup yeti dungeon was alright I guess.
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@Monkey:
Overworld screwing around is a really big part of Zelda games since at least Link's Awakening itself though. Hard not to consider it one of the pillars of the series.
Yeah. I'm not one to say the series could do without it, otherwise I'd not play them. And I CAN say the formula improved more or less since then. MM for example kept the main dungeons locked with quests that was related to the area they were in. That, and the game's central hub(Clocktown) had characters that hinted things you can do on the outside to reach other areas (like the Bomb Shopkeeper hinting you about how to get a Goron Powder Keg license, while teasing you with with a preview of the bomb you can't even buy. Thus giving you reason to explore it.)
There's other little neat things it did too, but that's just one example.
leans back in rocking chair
Mmm, actually same is true of me more or less.
I would keep repeating this, but never had playing a game made me feel so empty from start to finish. It was just that barren of a game ._.
Sad part is I actually trust that Nintendo won't repeat the game, but I still don't feel inclined to buy new ones when they release! TP burned me out that bad!–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@CCC:
…Pumpkin soup yeti dungeon was alright I guess.
I had to stop for a moment there since I thought you were joking.
Till I remembered that was actually a dungeon.I guess it did had some charm. Like a piece of steak on a dinosaur skeleton.
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@CCC:
Lol yeah. Fuck TP. Is there some sort of development-side excuse for why they dropped the ball so much on that one? Easily the least memorable [non-CDI] title.
…Pumpkin soup yeti dungeon was alright I guess.
It wasn't a bad game, it was just… sort of soulless.
Empty, it looked the part so much but just...ehhhh.
In the end it was unacceptably mediocre more than anything. -
TP did have the second-best Ganondorf fight.
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Twilight Princess had it's moments. Midna was a great companion and I wouldn't say it had any bad dungeons either, but ultimately it did kind of end up being a bit meh because it tried too hard to be like Ocarina of time. Well at least it wasn't Skyward sword.
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I've barely played Twilight Princess….but now that I remember all the times I've watched my brother play it, I kinda can see where all the criticism comes from....(although I can't fully judge since....little exposure)
Wait what game is more polarizing, TP or SS?
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Whoa whoa, what's with the TP hate? Still my favorite Zelda game. I admit that graphically it's aged rather badly, but it's got some of the best dungeons in the series with some fun weapons and an awesome companion.
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TP had okay dungeons but a relatively awful and empty overworld and the game basically stopped moving after the third dungeon
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I recently finished a replay of Twilight Princess (on the Wii) and the only thing that I can really fault it for is mapping the spin attack to the nunchuck. Seriously, fuck whoever made that decision, because it meant your wrist took a beating while battling groups of enemies that surrounded you (especially the Dark Nuts inside the Cave of Ordeals), and sometimes it just wouldn't work anyway, no matter how hard you waggled. Other than that, I enjoyed it a lot, probably more than my original play-through. It definitely did try to be too much like Ocarina of Time, but I had a blast with it. Also, Midna is by far the best companion the series has had so far, so I'm looking forward to seeing her again in Hyrule Warriors.
I just bought A Link Between Worlds, so I'm looking forward to diving right in and experiencing a new adventure. Skyward Sword is also on my to-buy list, but I wasn't able to find a copy at any of the stores I visited today (none of which were GameStops). I'll probably get it on my next outing, most likely at a GameStop, since very few retail stores stock Wii games these days, and most of the ones present are Nintendo Selects (which SS isn't a part of) or shovelware.
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TP felt… underwhelming to me. It's by no means a bad game, I really enjoy it as I do most Zelda games.... it just feels... it's hard to put it, but it feels like it played it safe with a lot of Zelda staples. It was very basic in that regard, it didn't feel like it had its own identity... and the one thing about it that TRIES to have its own identity, the wolf segments, I honestly hated. Plus, Purple Hermit above here nails a bit of it too. The Overworld felt very bland.
Also, the controls were underwhelming. I was expecting Skyward Sword style swordplay when the Wii version of TP was announced, and was quite sad when it came out and the controls were just typical Waggle. There's little to set apart TPs Wii version and Gamecube Version gameplay. Say what you will about Skyward sword, at least that game took a risk and tried something new with the controls.That being said, It's far from a bad game. I LOVE TP, I love most Zelda games. It's not a Zelda II or Spirit Tracks by any means.
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The whole rescue the children and that one village girl sub plot should have ended without the whole amnesia thing. That way you could have got the horse whistle a lot earlier and Epona would have been an actual feasible way of getting around Hyrule as opposed to just relying on wolf Link and transport gates.
I have to say the last dungeon, in the shadow world, was pretty cool. There was a neat twist with the Floor masters not chasing after Link but instead chasing after the ball you needed to progress through the dungeon. I really liked that dungeon and the boss fight was fun even though Zant should have been the final boss of the game.
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TP tried to introduce a sense of scale, which it kind of succeeded at. It just didn't have enough interesting stuff in it, so there was way too much empty space to traverse. But personally I think it has some really good dungeons. Pretty much the entire back half of the temples. The snow yeti temple was really good and so was the Arbiter's Grounds. The Temple of Time was nostalgic and had good puzzles. And getting the double claw shot? That was pretty pro.
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The dungeons were neat and pretty varied in design and art style, plus as Foolio mentioned you got the double clawshot so you could bionic commando all over the place. But I always felt like the game dragged once you started hunting down mirror shards without any actual life to actually pushing you towards achieving the main objectives. Also, a lot of the dungeon items were super neat and it was such a damn shame to see that they were pretty useless outside of the dungeon. The game ramps up the sword fighting stuff from windwaker so that was pretty fun, but in the end I'd have to say it's one of the blander 3D zeldas in the long run.
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@Purple:
Also, a lot of the dungeon items were super neat and it was such a damn shame to see that they were pretty useless outside of the dungeon.
Yeah this was also a major complaint of mine. All the good stuff was isolated in dungeons and unfortunately the game is more than dungeons.
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I feel like they could have done something extra with the revolutionary group in Hyrule to help push the plot along in the second half of the game, instead of them just awkwardly pointing you in the direction of the dungeons because 'the sky over there looks weird'. And yeah you use the spinny top maybe once outside of it's dungeon, that was kind of a waste.
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Whoa whoa, what's with the TP hate? Still my favorite Zelda game. I admit that graphically it's aged rather badly, but it's got some of the best dungeons in the series with some fun weapons and an awesome companion.
Yeah surely that's the problem with the game that we are all putting below everything that came before it. The graphics.
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TP had a lot of Missed opportunities. Chief among them being the resistance. They give off the air that "Holy crap, there's gonna be a full scale battle here! Why else would they introduce a resistance group?! Holy crap, they're gonna accompany Link in the end! This is gonna be big" and then… they do next to nothing....... they guide you to your next destination a few times... And they kill a few enemies so Link can go fight Ganon... yaaaaaay....
Seriously, the final battle should have been this big epic battle with an army. Even if the Wii couldn't handle rendering an entire army, at least a cutscene? Link can fight by their sides in smaller pockets of battle... and they can actually have an ending in the story. I mean, where the hell did they go after the main story was over? They got absolutely no coda.
This has me thinking, you know what I want to see?! A game that actually depicts the Imprisoning War that gets talked about in the manual to A Link to the Past.
They tried twice to make a game based on it and each time the story ended up changing so much in production that they officially declared neither of them to actually BE the Imprisoning War (those games being Ocarina of Time and Four Swords Adventures) but I think it'd be nice to just get a straight up-down Imprisoning War story.
It can start out just before the invasion and Link ends up one of the "Knights of Hyrule" mentioned in the ALttP Backstory. They could even have a twist where the Link of this generation ends up NOT being worthy of the Master Sword (to keep in line with what the story says, that they couldn't find a worthy wielder of the Blade of Evil's Bane) and even end it with your character dying in the battle with Ganon. You win the final battle, but he kills you in the last cutscene, but it's revealed you bought the sages enough time to seal him away in the Dark World, thus setting the stage for ALttP.
It's a long shot I know, but it'd be REALLY neat to see a Zelda game where you actually are involved in all-out war! Sure, dungeons can be a thing (We'll say you have to collect stuff to enable the Sages to seal Ganon) but it would certainly be an interesting and different story for a Zelda game.
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I remember this Goron standing on top of a roof in Castle Town.
Looking at this massive glowing pyramid that could be seen miles away surrounding the castle.What he said made me laugh. He said that he was not going to tell anyone what he's seeing. From there you can assume almost every citizen missed the fact that was a huge glowing pyramid surrounding the castle. It's like the castle didn't even exist and Ganon pressense wasn't bothering anyone. The game sort of failed to tell me that the world needed any saving. By the end, I was wondering why was I even doing anything at all aside from Midna telling me where to go.
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Remember how in Ocarina of Time, the later dungeons still kept you busy with lots of stuff new to explore outside the Dungeon?
Like how the Shadow Temple required you to go into the well?
And how getting to the Spirit Temple meant exploring a WHOLE new area of the map with lots of sub-areas and it's own culture and music styles and type of environment?
All well into the late period of the game?I can't be the only one who felt that the later the Dungeons got in TP, the more they felt tacked on to the overworld as it already existed. Hell the Yeti Mansion may have brought you into the snow mountain area, but it ranks among the emptiest and least explorable parts of the game. It was like a glorified obstacle course that you pass through on the way to the dungeon with zero of it's own attributes.
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But yeti snowboarding :(
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What he said made me laugh. He said that he was not going to tell anyone what he's seeing. From there you can assume almost every citizen missed the fact that was a huge glowing pyramid surrounding the castle. It's like the castle didn't even exist and Ganon pressense wasn't bothering anyone. The game sort of failed to tell me that the world needed any saving.
lol that's a really great point!
There was such a small level of concern! Where's the tension! Where's the motive! The investment!Link to The Past: The Dark World is fucked up as hell looking.
Link's Awakening: You're lost in the ocean on this island and need to get home.
Ocarina of Time: Possibly the series best, compare THAT castle town to the TP one and holy shit.
Majora: Who am I kidding, you cannot beat Majora on the front of emotional investment into solving the plot problem. It's unfair to even compare anything else to it.
Wind Waker: Not as obvious, but I did like the more…lurking quality to Ganondorf's threat. The game's world naturally was more thinly populated and spread out, not a huge kingdom. You were in a world recovering from a watery last minute apocalyptic solution to avoiding doomsday. And the evil was starting to recover as well, and you had to stop it from fully waking up.
Twilight Princess: It starts with a good setup with half the world covered in twilight….but by the halfway point of the game you've already solved that problem (through awful tedium)...leaving a vague non-threat of a bad dude like literally hiding in the castle. I mean sure he could get out and try and make annoying bugs cause darkness again (people in the darkness just turned into mildly confused spirits lol). But mostly the plot became trying to break into the bad guy's sealed up house! It's like a reverse Ocarina in terms of threat! Horrible idea! -
Also, someone explain to me why Zant got a ton of buildup as this awesome badass, and then suddenly AND WITHOUT WARNING during the final fight, he becomes a whiny buttmonkey?
I honestly don't mind the "Ganondorf is the REAL Big Bad!" reveal at the end, that was ok, but they didn't need to turn Zant into a whiny nutcase at the last possible second in order to reveal that.
It's like, to any comic book fans out there, it's like he went from being a stoic badass to being Superboy-Prime without any explanation.
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You know, I can remember more about Phantom Hourglass's story than Twilight Princess's and I've played through TP more times (twice).
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TP had it's shining moments in the story like when Midna gets all her power drained and you're stuck in wolf form and have to take her to castle town to get help, whilst this melancholic piano piece is playing. And the ending is pretty feelsy too. It's just that I can't remember any of the story that related Gannon or Zelda, both of them didn't really need to be in the game.
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As I keep playing Ocarina of Time (admittedly I just got the third jewel), I keep thinking: "Why is it so hard to turn the fuck around in place?"
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Are you playing with a beat up control stick? Because it should be as easy as lightly flicking it in the opposite direction, then using Z to adjust the camera.
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Are you playing with a beat up control stick? Because it should be as easy as lightly flicking it in the opposite direction, then using Z to adjust the camera.
This.
You just turn around and the camera follows you as you run. And if you want to force it just click Z yeah.
Unless your painstakingly trying to get Link to stare at you for some reason. -
Click Z? I'm using a 3DS, I don't have a Z button.
And my Control stick shouldn't be beat up at all, I never use it unless I have to.
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Click Z? I'm using a 3DS, I don't have a Z button.
Then you're playing some newfangled port!! Don't come cryin' to us!!
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You're just a bunch of old farts! You can't keep up with the times!
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It's funny too because it's been L-targeting ever since the Gamecube port that came with Master Quest. And you're not an OoT fan if you didn't play MQ.
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It's funny too because it's been L-targeting ever since the Gamecube port that came with Master Quest. And you're not an OoT fan if you didn't play MQ.
The grouchiest of the old farts is in support of calling it L-targeting instead of Z-targeting? Now that's funny! :P
Also, not everyone had that GC disc, Foolio! Though, having played Master Quest recently, I do agree that it's something that must be experienced by anyone who's a Zelda fan.
