Honestly if it wasn't for all the intense fan speculation and demand of a timeline, I think Skyward Sword wouldn't have had the burden of writing something just to fit into the timeline and we might've gotten a tighter story
General Zelda thread
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@Purple:
Yeah I think in TP they explain it as some sort of divine prank or something like that but the triforce being out and about doesn't really make sense.
I already got to that part, so I remember the trifocre showing up in his hand when he falcon punches a sage. But don't remember if it was a "generic seal" or the piece of power. Same with link and zelda. I'm 2 dungeons away from the ending though, tomorrow I could finish it .
@Purple:
The wording the King of Red Lions uses is pretty much "lost the elements that made him a hero". Could be being sent back in time or reverted to childhood form, considering that the master sword sealed him til he was an adult, but I always figured it was because he just straight up disappeared from the timeline after the split timeline hijinx came into play.
Existence is important on being a hero.
@Purple:
That was kinda the whole point of Wind Waker…?
Yes, it does, but it doesn't make it any less sad. Acording to the video, the seal broke within OoT Zelda's timeline.
@Purple:
Doesn't some stuff happen and like some crazy history explained in the manual of Adventure of Link where some king was a nice guy but his son wasn't so nice so the Zelda of that time knew the location but didn't tell her bro because he's a big jerk so he ended up cursing her to sleep til some guy with courage rescues her, which would be the history between ALBW and the first game?
Yeah, the triforce gets split somewhere between the games, but at that point the courage piece is already in a castle, and the other two are in the royal family, until Ganon fucks things for everybody for the first time and last time. Unless he was temporaly killed during this period, and the courage piece could get out of the palace anytime. And if the triforce was reunited before Link's Adventure, the Extra Sleeping Zelda would have woken up.
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Since it's probably the case they did the games first and the timeline after … I really would just say there's bound to be a lot of inconsistencies to make sense out of everything.
Frankly, my biggest bother is how Minish Cap was the origin story of the hat, but ... then in Skyward Sword that was supposed to be before it (and was made to be at the very beginning!) they just go fuck it and give him the hat anyway.
Oh yeah, I haven't finished Minish Cap in english… Got impatient and finished it in Japanesse, then got frustrated on the figurines and stoped during the english play.
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Other thing that it's very weird to me is the separation of this deatached and spiritual or free zelda to whomever goes on to create kingdoms that last thousands of years, mainly Skyward Sword and Phantom Hourglass, how "Super Peppy Zelda" and Tetra go on to build a kingdom? I'd wish to see them try, or their descendants.
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I already got to that part, so I remember the trifocre showing up in his hand when he falcon punches a sage. But don't remember if it was a "generic seal" or the piece of power. Same with link and zelda. I'm 2 dungeons away from the ending though, tomorrow I could finish it .
No, it really doesn't make any sense other than maybe "the gods bestowed it upon you" but the Triforce should still be locked away in the sacred realm in theory.
Existence is important on being a hero.
Does non existence therefore make you an antihero?
Yes, it does, but it doesn't make it any less sad. Acording to the video, the seal broke within OoT Zelda's timeline.
Still marginally better than Ganon taking over the sacred realm I guess. Guess the goddesses just wanted to re-enact Noah and decided to shut everyone up by flooding everything.
Yeah, the triforce gets split somewhere between the games, but at that point the courage piece is already in a castle, and the other two are in the royal family, until Ganon fucks things for everybody for the first time and last time. Unless he was temporaly killed during this period, and the courage piece could get out of the palace anytime. And if the triforce was reunited before Link's Adventure, the Extra Sleeping Zelda would have woken up.
Just depends on when the story in the Adventure of Link manual happens I guess.
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Since it's probably the case they did the games first and the timeline after … I really would just say there's bound to be a lot of inconsistencies to make sense out of everything.
Pretty much this. I don't even try and don't even care. It brings absolutely nothing to the table. Like I can understand how some fans might find it fun to speculate and try to explain it away in their heads, but it really means zero for the gameplay experience. At best you find some neat nods to previous games. At worst you end up tangled in nonsensical inconsistencies.
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Apparently Link(specially from ALTP) is from a family of telepaths.
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So… What's the deal with the Timeline?
I understand the need of the split, to have Ocarina of time have 3 different outcomes, even though dead link event doesn't makes much sense in the "timetravel causes timelines" but in the "every decision makes a timeline".
A LOT of the issues with the timeline can be explained by simply noting, as others have up until now, Nintendo has basically a "Gameplay First -> Story Later" policy. They want their games to be fun first, and don't want to have to shoehorn in gameplay mechanics specifically for story reasons. (They find OTHER reasons to shoehorn in gameplay mechanics)
Also, a "Timeline" wasn't an actual plan at first. The originally produced the first game, then AoL as a direct sequel, then ALttP as a prequel, then LA as a direct Sequel to that, and OOT as a Prequel to them all.
Honestly, I don't think the idea of a definitive "Timeline" was in Nintendo's head at all until around Wind Waker, as that's the first game that directly references the events of a prior-released game without it being a direct sequel starring the same Link. (like Adventure of Link and Majora's Mask)
That's I think why the "Child Link" and "Adult Leak Beat Ganon" Timelines are much clearer. ALL* of the games in those timelines are Wind Waker era and beyond, while all* of the "Classic" games were rounded up and stuck into their own Seperate timeline.
*MM and ALBW are notable exceptions, obviously because those two are stated to be direct sequels to other games in their timelines.Because as those games were all made before WW, no attempt to make the stories fit together properly was attempted, so they don't fit in with the majority of the other games in the timeline, so the only way Nintendo could think to fix it was to dump them into a timeline seperate from the WW+ games.
Now, I agree with you ENTIRELY about the dead Link explanation for the "Decline" Timeline not making much sense. The other two make PERFECT sense because Time Travel causing the splits explains it entirely. If we now enter in the concept of basically a "What if Link lost the final boss battle?" in there without another instance of Time Travel to explain it… it begs the question as to why you can't just apply that reasoning to EVERY game in the franchise. Why is OOT now special? Why does it have to be the divergence point?
I have head canon of my own now that rectifies this problem, spoiler'd in case nobody cares to read it lol.
! The three timelines all rely on different outcomes of Ocarina of Time as their starting points. These are the required outcomes to explain each Timeline as defined by Nintendo:
! Child Timeline: Ganon never rose to power, Hyrule was never ravaged, Ganon sealed away, Link still exists.
! Adult Timeline: Ganon rose to power, Hyrule Ravaged by his rule, Ganon Defeated, Link no longer exists.
! Decline Timeline: Ganon rose to power, Hyrule Ravaged by his rule, Ganon Not Defeated, Link no longer exists.
! The question is, how can we meet the requirements set for for the Decline Timeline using only Time Travel elements that exist in the plot of the game as it stands?
! Well, after you become an Adult, you gain the ability to time travel at will. Lets exclude for a moment any instance of Time Travel that isn't directly required to advance the plot. There are only two, and one you CAN skip and still beat the main story, but you're encouraged to do it, so I'm counting it.
! A: When you go back to get the Lens of Truth from the bottom of the well.
B: When you go back to gain access to the Spirit Temple.
! In getting the Lens of Truth, you don't really interact with anyone besides the windmill guy, and all you do to him is play the Song of Storms, which he seemed to already know without you as in the future, he's the one who taught it to you. This trip to the past was either not significant enough of a change to cause another split in the timeline, or you created an extra timeline that is pretty much identical to one of the others.
! The Spirit Temple one however has you interacting with Nabooru. In this part of the story, Nabooru, one of the Seven Sages, is trying to infiltrate the Spirit Temple and only your intervention allows her to attempt it while otherwise she may not have. This ends up getting her captured by Koume and Kotake.
! So, we now have one of the Seven Sages who we have no reason to believe was captured before, now captured as a result of Link's actions while Time Traveling. The Sages are REQUIRED to stop Ganon in both timelines in which he comes to power, so her no longer being free to assist in this IS a significant enough change to warrant another Split in the timeline.
! So the future you now return to after this is a new future in which Nabooru is captured and you need to rescue her, so the prior future that existed before you went back in time where she was NOT captured would be a different timeline in which Ganon rose to power, Hyrule was ravaged by his rule, but Ganon was not defeated since Link no longer exists because he jumped into the new "Nabooru is Captured" timeline and didn't come back.
! It all fits in a perfect little bow.
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Once you get to the point you have to have multiple divergant timeline charts to explain a series' chronology, I think that's the point you just accept they're all separate unless specifically stated to be sequels.
Like Final Fantasy.
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I personally just view each game as their own thing, minus the direct sequels (Ocarina -> Majora). Because otherwise then each game gets viewed a little more critically, and you get inconsistencies (SS taking place before Minish but Link already has his hat, as stated).
It's just more appealing to me that way. Although I do own Hyrule Historia, hmm….
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I like the callbacks and how some games tie into one another. I get something similar from JJBA - nods to previous parts occurring, and in 7 and 8, alt-universe versions of characters and events and such. It may be the lowest form of "I understood that reference" but I like it.
I don't particularly care about there being a unified timeline, because quite a few games just don't really fit into it, or directly contradict eachother. Minish Cap and Skyward Sword, for example, are both perfectly legitimate origin games that really shouldn't both exist. Hylians already wear the cap in SS. Elzo starting the trend in MC makes no sense. So bending over backwards to justify it all seems like a pointless endeavor. But I don't mind that Nintendo bothered to do it, I'm sure that it won't put any restrictions on what they do with the series in the future.
So if they squeeze the WiiU Zelda into a slot along the timeline somewhere, or throw it at the end of one of the splits, whatever. Besides, it's the Mario Timeline that we really need to worry about.
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Wii U Zelda will take place in a new alternate timeline based off of one of the millions of timelines Link left behind in the wake of Majora's Mask.
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It will be in a moon shaped hole.
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Yeah, I'm with most people here. I was initially excited about an official timeline, but now that we have one, I regret even asking about it.
Now with every new Zelda game that comes out, I hear people asking "where does it fit in the timeline?" Honestly, I really don't care anymore. So long as Nintendo makes a good game, I'm fine with it.
Frankly, my biggest bother is how Minish Cap was the origin story of the hat, but … then in Skyward Sword that was supposed to be before it (and was made to be at the very beginning!) they just go fuck it and give him the hat anyway.
Oh, this made me so angry. Could Nintendo really not bother to expect people not to freak out if Link didn't have his hat for one game? Honestly, with all the creativity that went into Skyward Sword, they couldn't think of anything else? Again, if there wasn't a timeline, I wouldn't care, but now that Nintendo has gone out of its way to make an official timeline, it just shows that they're lazy.
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Wii U Zelda will take place in a new alternate timeline based off of one of the millions of timelines Link left behind in the wake of Majora's Mask.
Also, because of the hokey time travel stuff added to them considering a timeline where Link is defeated, you have to also consider a timeline where Link is horrifically crushed like a bug under a rug by a moon with a grin on his mug.
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Excuse me for a moment, but I own the Hyrule Historia and I remember reading it cover to cover when I first got it… I've also beaten Minish Cap. Is it stated anywhere that the Minish Cap is supposed to be the definitive origin story for the Cap?
I know a lot of people took it that way, heck I kinda took it that way, but I don't think Nintendo explicitly ever said "this is definitely where the Cap came from guys", so it doesn't contradict anything that he has the Cap in SS.
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Let's just say it's the definitive Cap origin story for any WW art styled Zelda game and call it a day.
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Funnily enough, Minish Cap Link resembles his Wind Waker form in official art, yet his sprite has blue eyes and recycles voice clips from OoT/MM young Link.
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I got really hooked with the LOZ series after finishing Ocarina of Time and hearing about Hyrule Warriors, and the last few months I´ve played/watched Majora´s Mask, Minish Cap, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and I´m about to finish Wind Waker
I really want to watch the gameplay of the antagonists, specially Zant, which is my favorite; and get to know the plot behind this new game. Where can I watch it? Is there a good youtube channel or a stream?
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Replaying WW now through WW HD.
While I'm enjoying it immensely a voice keeps blowing up in my head yelling "SKYWARD SWORD IS A PIECE OF SHIT" because I'm playing a spruced up version of an already excellent Zelda game so soon after.
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So, since I've never had a console, I've only really ever played the GBC and GBA games (and the Wind fish, which is probably one of the best ones.
I can get "A Link between Worlds" for free as part of a promotion - is it worth it?I can tell that the world is exactly the same as in A Link to the Past (another great game)… thoughts?
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It's not exactly the same world but for the most part you could say the core pieces of it are exactly the same. Still, the dungeons are all way different, the gameplay is pretty strong, and it's just a damn good game
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I'm also playing Wind Waker HD.
Enjoying everything but the dungeons. Their creepy music just turns out to be really obnoxious and repetitive. Combined with link's yelling they never fail to give me headaches.
So right now I'm just sailing around having fun, trying to see how long I can go before climbing the tower of the gods.
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So, since I've never had a console, I've only really ever played the GBC and GBA games (and the Wind fish, which is probably one of the best ones.
I can get "A Link between Worlds" for free as part of a promotion - is it worth it?I can tell that the world is exactly the same as in A Link to the Past (another great game)… thoughts?
Basically, everything in A link between worlds (the dungeons, the music, the items, the world and even the plot) is "A link to the past with a twist"… And IMO this is both the best and the worst aspect of this game.
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I'm also playing Wind Waker HD.
Enjoying everything but the dungeons. Their creepy music just turns out to be really obnoxious and repetitive. Combined with link's yelling they never fail to give me headaches.
So right now I'm just sailing around having fun, trying to see how long I can go before climbing the tower of the gods.
The dungeons are basically the only bad thing about the game that they didn't fix with the HD remaster. So yeah they still kinda suck by Zelda standards. But I find it amusing that of all things it's the music that bothers you :P
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Why did they start making the handheld Zelda's 3D.
This seriously bothers me. -
@Monkey:
Why did they start making the handheld Zelda's 3D.
This seriously bothers me.you mean, instead of sprite-based? because LBW is just as top-down as LTTP in terms of actual gameplay.
unlike the DS ones, which were weird and I didn't much care for them.
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you mean, instead of sprite-based? because LBW is just as top-down as LTTP in terms of actual gameplay.
Aesthetically speaking we've taken a major step down just because it seems more betterer futurery.
I've lived this shift once before. But at least then it had gameplay value. As you say it plays the same, except looks ten times worse.
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To be fair, Link Between Worlds did a lot of fun stuff with verticality (thanks to 3D 'n junk) better than LttP could do, given limitations at the time.
But I, too, love sprite Zeldas, and it makes me sad to imagine the possibility that there won't ever be another one.
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@CCC:
For free!? Absolutely worth it.
It's a flawed game, but still incredibly fun and with a number of fresh elements that are typically well-implemented.The problem is that I can pick one out of a choice of 7, others being:
- _Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
- _The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
- _Yoshi's New Island
- Kirby: Triple Deluxe___ I'm not sure what I should go for. It's a promotion because I pre-ordered Alpha Sapphire on Amazon, so if you did that you'll probably get a free game as well (Amazon UK)!
@Monkey:
Why did they start making the handheld Zelda's 3D.
This seriously bothers me.The first one for Cameboy came out in 1993 "Link's Awakening" and it's absolutely amazing. If you grew up with a console, that's lucky, but the GBC games were fantastic too.
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I can't speak to MH3, but this Zelda is definitely better than Yoshi or Kirby.
And MK said "3D" handheld Zeldas ;)
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I've played Monster Hunter Tri on my Dolphin emulator a couple years back. I'm assuming that's a port of the same game, but… The game is extremely fun if actually take up the role the game intends you to be. You are a hunter. You typically go out of your village to find and bring back materials/ingredients used for weapons, armor, food and a whole ton of different contents. It's really cool how far the game pushes the feature of "farming items". Like animals and monsters would typically live in thier own habitat and it all "feels" very natural. Another great selling point to the game is the absolutely amazing boss battles. They are more fun with friends, but it's insane how creative they can be.
On the bad side, the games aren't really fun if you aren't into grinding(despite how well the game does it). That, and enemies/bosses having an invisible health meter could be a turnoff if you are used to stuff like Souls or Dogma(it controls very similar to those two). Also, while it does have a story it's not very crucial. It's a game that's all well intended to be a fun pseudo online game experience that can also be a single player game if you would rather it be(tho it's nowhere near as fun)
Zelda might be a better deal if you are looking for an adventure, even tho I never played it yet.
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The dungeons are basically the only bad thing about the game that they didn't fix with the HD remaster. So yeah they still kinda suck by Zelda standards. But I find it amusing that of all things it's the music that bothers you :P
The dungeons are okay I guess? I'm only on the third one so I'd assume they'd just get better. Plus I can't really focus on them, I try to get through as fast as possible before I start puking.
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I'll never get over the fact that Capcom had the chance a make "Monster Hunter with guns" with Lost Planet but they chose a shitty survival horror instead.
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The first one for Cameboy came out in 1993 "Link's Awakening"
No shit?….
What about my post made you think I didn't know about the old handheld Zelda's? -
@Monkey:
No shit?….
What about my post made you think I didn't know about the old handheld Zelda's?I completely ignored the "3d" and thought you meant all handheld Zelda games in general :)
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The problem is that I can pick one out of a choice of 7, others being:
- _Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
- _The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
- _Yoshi's New Island
- Kirby: Triple Deluxe___ I'm not sure what I should go for. It's a promotion because I pre-ordered Alpha Sapphire on Amazon, so if you did that you'll probably get a free game as well (Amazon UK)!
Monhun is monhun, either you like it or you don't. Since MH4 is coming out soon anyway I wouldn't bother.
LBW we've been over, it's a solid zelda.
yoshi's is basically a map pack for SMW2, except with dumbed-down level design, awful music, and an artstyle that either looks "kinda nice" or "like swirled shit" depending on the level.
triple deluxe is one of the best kirby games, IMO. had a ton of fun with that one. I especially liked the attention they put into the bosses this time around.
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The problem is that I can pick one out of a choice of 7, others being:
- _Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
- _The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
- _Yoshi's New Island
- Kirby: Triple Deluxe___ I'm not sure what I should go for. It's a promotion because I pre-ordered Alpha Sapphire on Amazon, so if you did that you'll probably get a free game as well (Amazon UK)!
I'd say, get ALBW. It and Kirby Triple Deluxe are the only two on that list I say are worth getting, and Triple Deluxe already costs about $10 less than ALBW on Amazon. Meaning, if you want both games, it would cost you less to get ALBW free and actually buy Kirby TD.
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YESSSSSSS
With the announcement, I decided to revive the thread!
I'm not meticulous enough to get the Special Edition of the MM remake since there's nothing really interesting in it. Would have preferred an artbook with concept art. But I'm really exited for this remake!! Majora's Mask is not only my favorite Zelda game, but one of my top 3 favorite games period. And the rest of the 3D Zeldas I like are probably in my top 20 at the latest.
After the announcement, I decided to look for clips of my absolute favorite moments, and here's a few I remembered from the top of my head.[hide]
The moment at the end makes me cry every time. For a character you barely know too!! They way Pamela protects her dad even after you break the curse on him is just… really fucking touching! What a strong little lad.
This event scared the living crap out of me as a kid because it's outright depressing to fail this quest. A day after losing the cows, you find Romani back on the ranch without her memories. Her older sister Cremia is devastated since those cows and thier prized milk was one of the only things keeping the ranch running. And to make matters worse, none of this matters since the moon is going to fall and kill everyone anyway. So sad and terrifying.
Despite it all, there was always this driven motivation to fix things, even tho things look dire for the whole world. If you save the ranch from the invaders, and safetly escort the milk to town, you get moments like this… A thank you hug! Yes a hug! Accepted reward considering I actually legitimately wanted these characters to catch a break and be happy despite all the doom and gloom.
[/hide]
Then there's the Anju/Kaf stuff, but those are really well known. I'm actually more exited to see the reaction of people playing this for the first time or atleast playing it fully enough to truly appreciate it. I mean, I find the complaints about the title legitimate but not in a way that measures the sheer quality of Majora's Mask. This isn't really "undeserved hype" here. People that like MM, "get" what MM is about. And it's rewarding to just "get it".
Okay done. I just love this game so much and seeing a remake has me super exited.
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I'm not meticulous enough to get the Special Edition of the MM remake since there's nothing really interesting in it.
I'd get the special edition just for this
!
Well, and the game I suppose. Steelbox and pin don't do anything for me.
Very excited though, I'm one of the few who never got into Majora's Mask back in the day (played the first dungeon then got distracted by other games) so it will be nice to revisit it with a different perspective.
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I'm glad it's getting a remake! Although, I was up to Great Bay and finally gotten Epona in the N64 version, including a lot of good masks.
Ah well. Now I'll have a waaay better sense on what to do, opposed to 13 years ago. Can't wait! :D
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I'm glad it's getting remade, since the Collector's disc I got from my cousin is scratched, and I lost hours of progress during my last play-through due to the game freezing. I didn't continue playing out of frustration, so it'll be nice to have a new, revamped version to play when 2015 rolls around.
My bodies (Deku Scrub, Goron, and Zora) are ready…
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I will buy as many MM remakes as they make, forever.
Steelbooks and all.I'm actually more exited to see the reaction of people playing this for the first time or atleast playing it fully enough to truly appreciate it.
I feel this way too.
It's awesome that the Angry Bird millenial generation will get a chance to play one of the greatest games of all time that they probably wouldn't have gone out of their way for otherwise (via virtual console or whatever). -
I really really want to kick Great Bay Temple's ass this time. Got as far as the Ice Arrows.
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So pumped for the remake! It feels like its been a long time coming, but it's so great to hear it's really happening.
I have so many fond memories of the game its insane - moreso than pretty much any other game from my childhood (except Smash Bros, probably). My favorite moments are some of the ones listed as well as the most typical ones people refer to (getting the transformation masks, Anju and Kafei quest, etc.), but I have a few others as well:
! For starters, I always loved encountering the giants after you beat each temple - the atmosphere is fantastic, and you really feel like you're experiencing something otherworldly. The music definitely helped with that.
! A small touch, but I love how the dojo master is cowering in the final hours of the Third Day. Really helped make such a minor, relatively unimportant character feel so much more human.
! Most of all, however, the final section of the game on the moon always struck me the most as a kid. Even beyond the WTF factor (there's a field and tree on the moon? a bunch of kids wearing the masks of the bosses?), the atmosphere was surreal and otherworldly - entering the final boss room somehow filled me with more dread as a kid than seeing the moon about to fall (again, due in large part to the music, though the presentation as a whole was great).What I love about MM, however, is that I feel like I can go back and play it anytime. I've played it years later and still enjoyed the hell out of it, and I think that goes beyond just nostalgia (though that admittedly is a big part of it).
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Omg, FINALLY
but…hopefully this will be playable on the standard 3DS as well rather than forcing me to buy yet ANOTHER 3DS.
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Omg, FINALLY
but…hopefully this will be playable on the standard 3DS as well rather than forcing me to buy yet ANOTHER 3DS.
Pretty sure it's being developed with the standard 3DS as the main platform. The trailer or another source probably would've stated otherwise if you needed a "New 3DS" to play.
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Going about my day with this stuck on my head:
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THIS fucking game. Big part of my childhood. Me and my friend spent countless hours figuring this game out day by day. Ive always felt a bit sad I never collected all the masks. Been wanting to for a while now. Man that collectors edition is tempting…
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Oh my god…
YES! YES! YES! YES!!! NINTENDO I FREAKING LOVE YOU SO GODDAMN MUCH!!!!
The remake I've been wanting for a LONG time is FINALLY coming!!
And that special edition looks great! Can't wait to pick it up! Liking that Pin, and that Poster, and tha-
"EUROPEAN EXCLUSIVE"
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Europe-announced bundles usually come west. But the Bayonetta 2 one didn't. So I'm scared. Because I really want that special edition, and honestly I find it like a slap in the face to fans to say "lol we don't care about North America; it's not like they're an important market!" Historically it may have been the other way around (shunning Europe), but neither is right. Anyway, this is a game where I would seriously consider getting the European version just for the extras, and then just buy the actual game here to be able to play it. Since it very well might be my favorite game ever.
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Europe-announced bundles usually come west. But the Bayonetta 2 one didn't. So I'm scared. Because I really want that special edition, and honestly I find it like a slap in the face to fans to say "lol we don't care about North America; it's not like they're an important market!" Historically it may have been the other way around (shunning Europe), but neither is right. Anyway, this is a game where I would seriously consider getting the European version just for the extras, and then just buy the actual game here to be able to play it. Since it very well might be my favorite game ever.
I don't think nintendo is in charge of the special editions. Pretty sure its NOE, or NOA or whatever doing what they do. Bithc at NOA for not being as cool as NOE. I mean hell look at Club Nintendo perks. NOA ususally always is the worst of the litter.
