Impressions can deceive also, guess we won't see who's right anytime soon.
Will Shanks die?
-
-
@Cyan:
We need another drunken assistant to spill all future developments.
Has that happened before?
-
Has that happened before?
Long story, turned into a prank. Someone guessed that Duval would have Sanji's wanted poster face, and said they had learned that from a drunk assistant. They then spun that into "Ace will die" and "Zoro will leave the crew/lose an arm."
This was still mostly brushed off, up until the moment Kuma punted Zoro away… but mostly it was an exaggerated joke guess based on... analyzing the series... turned into a myth.
Impressions can deceive also, guess we won't see who's right anytime soon.
Storytelling bullet points and foreshadowing, and an understanding of the author's methods are NOT the same as gut instinct.
Educated theory with facts and examples and reasoning behind it is NOT the same as opinion.
Don't just say "your opinion is dumb and you're meanies for telling me I'm wrong." If you want to make a counter-argument. Make one.
What purpose does Shanks living serve?
Beyond Oda loving his happy endings where everyone lives? Which IS a strong point, but he has shown a willingness to kill characters in the present if its important to the overall story.
Things that outweigh
-hyping BB
-adding emotional/personal stakes to the final arc
-shaking the balance of the world
-giving Luffy a definitive goal to surpass
-paying off the foreshadowing of Shanks and BB having been rivals for decades
-taking away Luffy's security blanket
-parent/mentor figures consistently dying/passing on their dreams to the next generation being a consistent recurring theme(Bear in mind Luffy will ALSO have to outdo Roger eventually by succeeding in throwing off the current world order after finding One Piece… so having any of Roger's old crew help out in a major way is probably not good)
-
I guess not only Shanks, but all Yonkou will die somehow.
-
Also, that "WELL I GUESS WE'LL WAIT AND SEE WHO'S WRONG AND WHO'S RIGHT" thing? It's a colossal cop-out.
-
IMO, I'd like to see Shanks live, but totally defeated by Blackbeard to the point where he can't even be a pirate any longer. Death would be easy compared to sitting helplessly while watching the generation you wanted to succeed fail before your eyes.
But I can totally see how Shanks death would be what Luffy needs to push him over the edge against Blackbeard, though as far as I can tell, he already wants to kick Blackbeard's ass.
-
The real question honestly is what the hell is going to happen with Mihawk. Its hard to imagine Oda denying us that promised fight after several decades of buildup to just have Shiryu instead… but at the same time that entire dynamic changed drastically when Mihawk went all out and Luffy managed to dodge him, and when he agreed to train Zoro.
-
I don't know. Mihawk seems…almost too friendly with Zoro to let their 'rivalry' have any emotional conclusion.
Shilliew is almost certainly Zoro's final hurdle. A quick duel after the final battle where Mihawk just gets disarmed and is all like "yep you're the greatest swordsman now" would be a bit of an anticlimax.
-
I always assumed the final battles would involve slashes that were splitting islands in half and such… and then we eventually started seeing exactly that in the war... and buildings are being cut in half pretty consistently now.
-
It would be neat to me if Shanks, upon deciding to take out Blackbeard before Luffy goes and tries to, gets Mihawk to come along and help. Mihakw doesn't have to die against Shilllew, even being defeated would mean that he is not the strongest swordsman.
Upon Mihawk's defeat, Zoro's goal would shift to Shillew.
Of course, Oda would still be denying us that rematch some of us always have wanted to see. In the end, I don't really know.
-
Yeah, I can definitely see Mihawk, the Red-Hair Pirates, and the Whitebeard Pirates all being raided by the Blackbeard Pirates at once. It'd be like a larger scale Blackbeard vs. Ace.
My questions is what role Rayleigh will play near the end of the series.
-
I think it'd be good for the story if Shanks were to die by the hand of Blackbeard but on the other hand I'm also really looking forward to Luffy giving back his hat to Shanks and both crews having an amazing party together. And there's a few problems with Shanks dying before Luffy gets the chance to return the hat. Yassop for instance. Ussop will most definitely meet his father at some point. This HAS to happen. Then there's the Mihawk/Shiryu/Zoro issue. Mihawk isn't really a part of Shanks's crew of course but Shiryu beating Mihawk so that he will be Zoro's final opponent, just like BB killing Shanks would feel a bit anti climactic at this point. That isn't to say that the story can't progress in a way that this might become a true option but at this point I'm not feeling it yet or, to say it differently, I'm in a struggle to find out what i'd actually like to happen.
Fun thing though. If Shanks were to die by BB's hand, I'd like it if it was after Luffy has beaten both Big Mom and Kaidou so that both of them have a big name, having taken down 2 yonkou and are ruling half of the New World (with divisions, I'm still rooting for most of the supernovae becoming allies of Luffy at one point in the story except for Law and Kidd who made it quite clear they have enough willpower to go after the One Piece on their own merit).
That's still going to take soooo much time though :D -
Blackbeard/Shanks feels legit because its been set up at length and BB was introduced all the way back in Drum.
Shiryu on the other hand, only just appeared relatively recently, has only been in a few panels, and has had no interactions with Mihawk, so any confrontation there seems… odd at best, at this point.
-
My issue is Shanks dying would be considered devistating to Luffy, but not really all that emotive to the reader or crew other than for feeling what Luffy feels.
Losing a Strawhat crewmate however would be devistating to the reader, the crew and Luffy. I'm sure BB vs Shanks will happen and that if he didn't die - that would mean a Crewmate is a gonner.
Afterall - it worked for Suikoden with Gremio.
-
Yeah, I have to agree on that Robby. The only way I can really see Mihawk and Shillew going against one another is by a middleman, through Shanks.
-
What purpose does Shanks living serve?
Beyond Oda loving his happy endings where everyone lives? Which IS a strong point, but he has shown a willingness to kill characters in the present if its important to the overall story.
Things that outweigh
-hyping BB
-adding emotional/personal stakes to the final arc
-shaking the balance of the world
-giving Luffy a definitive goal to surpass
-paying off the foreshadowing of Shanks and BB having been rivals for decades
-taking away Luffy's security blanket
-parent/mentor figures consistently dying/passing on their dreams to the next generation being a consistent recurring theme(Bear in mind Luffy will ALSO have to outdo Roger eventually by succeeding in throwing off the current world order after finding One Piece… so having any of Roger's old crew help out in a major way is probably not good)
- BB is already hyped to no end by getting all those prisoners, creating a grudge by capturing Ace, the two mightiest fruits, taking all of WB's islands.
- It's already emotional, I don't believe that it needs to increased by killing of Shanks, when so much else will be at stake anyway.
- Luffy already knows that he needs to surpass all the Emperors, so this argument is mute.
- Shanks has other rivals too, in the end the scar was to hype Teach, yet it doesn't mean that they will fight because of some old rivalary, but because Shanks/Kaidou/Big Mom are all in the way of anyone looking out to become Pirate King. Of course the Emperors are clashing against each other from time to time, but certain death is something else.
- Luffy has no security blanket, that's the entire point of the NW, always risking his life, like at PH or now in DR. Nobody of Shanks crew will magically appear to safe Luffy again, so what are even talking about here? What about Shank's words about his promise with Luffy at Marineford? Why shouldn't Luffys effort pay off too?
- Shanks has given him his arm, I don't see why he has to follow the rule about mentor/parent figures. And again, he is far less of a mentor and more of an idol, since he didn't guide him anywhere but into piracy.
-
@Cyan:
Oda's totally going to make Luffy and Teach's final showdown a largely impersonal fight over a title.
the final fight in the manga will have so much shit behind that the pirate king title will be an afterthought
also,between luffy and teach is already personal,that's why it's not really necessary for shanks to die for making it so.@Robby:
Senior rank doesn't make opinions any stronger or better.
But when it comes to educated analysis of the series? And every senior that's voted goes to one side? Then yes, that's probably a telling sign that there's something in the story itself giving the impression.
:blink:wait, what?
-
@Cyan:
I don't know. Mihawk seems…almost too friendly with Zoro to let their 'rivalry' have any emotional conclusion.
Shilliew is almost certainly Zoro's final hurdle. A quick duel after the final battle where Mihawk just gets disarmed and is all like "yep you're the greatest swordsman now" would be a bit of an anticlimax.
Not having a rematch that's been built up since chapter 52 would also be pretty damn anticlimactic.
-
He's been compared to Roger again and again, and Roger was definitely the vengeful type.
He has been compared to Roger again and again and AGAIN, but he's not Roger. Luffy's his own person, not a clone.
Are you forgetting how pissed Luffy gets at people who hurt his friends?
This isn't Usopp vs. the Franky Family. If it's a fight both BB and Shanks agree to, then he has no reason to swear revenge. If it's one where Shanks' crew somehow gets ambushed, BB's crew still isn't going to get away without a few casualties of their own (lest the Red Hairs be completely worfed).
But Luffy did sort of go after the Marines after Ace's death. Once he had composed himself, he went back to Marineford and raised some hell (though it was also part of a plan to inform his crew about the delayed reunion).
Like you said, he went to inform the rest of his crew about the delayed reunion. The worst thing his did was steal a marine ship, and that was only because it was a custom for burial at sea. If he went there just to piss the marines off and wave a big ol' Gomu Gomu no Middle Finger in their faces, he'd have at least shot a few cannonballs or something.
Also, I think that Luffy understands that Blackbeard is the one who was the main cause for his brother's death. I'm pretty sure that Luffy is going to have one hell of a beating in store for Blackbeard, if only for his involvement in Ace's demise.
It was a fair fight between BB and Ace, though (and Ace was the challenger).
You're right that he won't brood forever, but that doesn't mean that he won't get stronger in order to kick their ass. Seems a little vengeful, to me.
Is he getting stronger to defeat Blackbeard? Or is he getting stronger so what happened at Sabaody and Marineford doesn't happen again?
That's the point, he needs to defeat, overcome, outshine all of those people who are currently above him. One way that this could happen with Shanks is if Shanks is somehow defeated by another pirate before Luffy gets a chance to have his reunion.
Why does it have to be BEFORE the reunion, though?
Actually, why is it a reason for him to die in the first place? Shanks dying is just going to hype up the other pirate.
-
the final fight in the manga will have so much shit behind that the pirate king title will be an afterthought
Interesting that you should bring this up… I'm not convinced the final fight will be Luffy vs BB. I envision them fighting at Raftel for One Piece.
However, I've always sort of pictured the final battle being a huge war against the WG after the truth about the void history is revealed.:blink:wait, what?
Is this sarcasm or do you really need an explanation… ?
-
I've made up my mind; you can count me on Shanks dying-camp.
-
Interesting that you should bring this up… I'm not convinced the final fight will be Luffy vs BB. I envision them fighting at Raftel for One Piece.
The final battle will be a huge war inspired by whats found at Raftel… where BB falls in is hard to say... but I think its fair to say it could be a three way war after BB gets one of the ancient weapons. (There are after all, three ancient weapons, and the SH's have Poseidon on their side now....)
-
The final battle will be a huge war inspired by whats found at Raftel… where BB falls in is hard to say... but I think its fair to say it could be a three way war after BB gets one of the ancient weapons. (There are after all, three ancient weapons, and the SH's have Poseidon on their side now....)
I've considered the three-way battle… but how do we get the revolutionaries involved as well?
Plus, don't we need a clear victor from Luffy vs BB. I guess it could be accomplished in a three-way... -
I've considered the three-way battle… but how do we get the revolutionaries involved as well?
Plus, don't we need a clear victor from Luffy vs BB. I guess it could be accomplished in a three-way...The revolutionaries are on Luffy's side- or rather, Luffy's on their side.
Three sides, each with an ancient weapon.
-
How would they get their hands on Pluton when Franky is the only one with the blueprints and Robin being the only onecapable of reading the poneglyph?
-
Is the original Pluton still in Alabasta? If it's the government, if they really wanted/needed to, I guess they could raid the country to find it.
-
@John:
**Will Shanks die?
yes, everyone dies :ninja:**
Like i feel.
He is a human, so yes he will die! -
I assume the government has access to one already, its just hard to get to. Its what that bridge is for that they've been building for 700 years.
There's gonna be some sort of payoff to all the setup and worry about ancient weapons. (And if an ancient weapon can be a person, then certainly another person could be one as well with the right power set.)
Also. Vegapunk.
-
Interesting that you should bring this up… I'm not convinced the final fight will be Luffy vs BB. I envision them fighting at Raftel for One Piece.
However, I've always sort of pictured the final battle being a huge war against the WG after the truth about the void history is revealed.i always pictured both happening at the same time,a huge naval war (with ancestral weapon included) in front of raftel,with the mugiwara and teach's crew (and maybe a marine delegation) that will disembark on the island to get the onepiece (that at this point it will be somewhat crucial to win the battle/and or obtain world domination)
Is this sarcasm or do you really need an explanation… ?
it was more of a "I can't believe he actually said that"
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Is the original Pluton still in Alabasta? If it's the government, if they really wanted/needed to, I guess they could raid the country to find it.
crocodile belived so,but there's no actual proof that the real pluton is really at alabasta ,since skypiea had the poseidon one but the weapon was on fishman island
-
@Cyan:
I don't know. Mihawk seems…almost too friendly with Zoro to let their 'rivalry' have any emotional conclusion.
Shilliew is almost certainly Zoro's final hurdle. A quick duel after the final battle where Mihawk just gets disarmed and is all like "yep you're the greatest swordsman now" would be a bit of an anticlimax.
Apart from that, how do people picture the final battle between Zoro and Mihawk? Where will it happen? When will it happen?
His Shichibukai status was, at least up until recently, a great reason for them to clash in an organic manner, but…
!
…what now? -
I think Kuzan will get his share of this equation too.
-
Apart from that, how do people picture the final battle between Zoro and Mihawk? Where will it happen? When will it happen?
His Shichibukai status was, at least up until recently, a great reason for them to clash in an organic manner, but…
! http://s1.directupload.net/images/140505/mvwklr9l.png
…what now?He's still the world's strongest swordsman. He'll just have a bounty on his head.
-
Shiliew being in the position of "World's Greatest Swordsman" when he hasn't shown any interest in being such is kind of hard to picture.
I think Zoro vs Mihawk will come later in the story, way later.
Like Goku vs Uub late.
Maybe not literally the last chapter, but possibly the last time we see Zoro.
-
He's still the world's strongest swordsman. He'll just have a bounty on his head.
Erm, I think you misunderstood my post. Losing his Warlord status obviously won't strip him from his "world strongest" title. But if Fujitora achieves his goal (and I'm absolutely sure he will) Oda loses a great opportunity to pit Zoro against Mihawk in a natural way.
So again, how do you picture their final battle? What will be the trigger? Zoro taking a break from his journey with the Straw Hats to face Mihawk? Mihawk hunting down Zoro after he deems him worthy? I'm honestly curious, because I can't come up with something that wouldn't feel awkward.
-
It's pretty obvious after the foreshadowing at Marineford, Shanks will fight Blackbeard and die. Just because it's obvious doesn't make it bad, it's really annoying how everyone assumes EVERYTHING Oda does has to be from out of left field. Being completely unpredictable makes a story unreadable, Oda is very good at making crazy shit happen and making stuff we knew would happen still really interesting. I could see Luffy fighting Shanks, and Shanks winning but Luffy giving him a run for his money. Then after everyone is exhausted Blackbeard shows up and slaughters Shank's crew. I really don't know how it's going to happen but I guarantee Shanks gets killed via Blackbeard.
As for Mihawk/Shiryuu thing I dunno. Mihawk could die, Ace said he wouldn't die and he was killed/ Mihawk said he'll remain the strongest and wait for Zoro but he could be killed.
-
Erm, I think you misunderstood my post. Losing his Warlord status obviously won't strip him from his "world strongest" title. But if Fujitora achieves his goal (and I'm absolutely sure he will) Oda loses a great opportunity to pit Zoro against Mihawk in a natural way.
What natural way would there be for them to clash while he's a warlord? oO You remember Zoro being trained by him and Dracule having absolutely no reason to attack the strawhats on their own. Zoro will one day think he's good enough and wait for a moment to clash with him, probably as Shanks and Mihawk did during their youth.
it's really annoying how everyone assumes EVERYTHING Oda does has to be from out of left field. Being completely unpredictable makes a story unreadable, Oda is very good at making crazy shit happen and making stuff we knew would happen still really interesting.
Who exactly is promoting that stance in here? Whom are you adressing?
-
I've considered the three-way battle… but how do we get the revolutionaries involved as well?
Plus, don't we need a clear victor from Luffy vs BB. I guess it could be accomplished in a three-way...Revolutionaries become the new World Government perhaps? Hence they have to be involved in the fight.
-
Apart from that, how do people picture the final battle between Zoro and Mihawk? Where will it happen? When will it happen?
I'm definitely in the camp that a simple "student surpassing master" battle for the title would just be so…..eeeeh. It'd be one thing if Mihawk refused to train Zoro or even had a much more malicious personality back at the Baratie, but there's the sense of familarity between the two now.
Sure student vs. master battles are usually grand and fun, but boy can they be cliche.
I've seen people suggest that Shiryu kill Mihawk (like I noted earlier). It sounds....cliche too (student avenging master?), but at the same time, I feel it's really the only way to make Zoro's final battle more dramatic, more triumphant, and of course, more bloody. It's not a real Zoro fight until the dude is half dead.
-
I think it doesn't make much sense to not include Mihawk too in the massacre. Make it personal to everyone. Shanks and Mihawk already have a relationship established so a situation that they fight together against BB for whatever reason is not out of question.
I'm not going to be too disappointed about Zoro x Mihawk not happening if Shiliew and Mihawk's fight is well done. They really do seem more like student-teacher at this rather than true rivals and stuff
-
Shiliew being in the position of "World's Greatest Swordsman" when he hasn't shown any interest in being such is kind of hard to picture.
I think Zoro vs Mihawk will come later in the story, way later.Like Goku vs Uub late.
Maybe not literally the last chapter, but possibly the last time we see Zoro.
The Straw hats will more likely achieve their dream at the same time, there is no reason for Zoro to become the WSS way later as you say.
-
The Straw hats will more likely achieve their dream at the same time, there is no reason for Zoro to become the WSS way later as you say.
No they won't. Nami's map of the world at the very least will take multiple trips. Others, such as Chopper's perfect cure for anything are hard to see typing in.
Meanwhile, a lot of them will tie into simply getting to Raftel (or a little beyond.) Sanji's All Blue, Robin's True History, and Brook's Laboon will be relatively close together.
-
Who exactly is promoting that stance in here? Whom are you adressing?
It's an attitude that's prevalent here and in other forums. I'm not addressing/singling out anyone in particular, just addressing a sentiment common among OP fans.
-
What natural way would there be for them to clash while he's a warlord? oO You remember Zoro being trained by him and Dracule having absolutely no reason to attack the strawhats on their own. Zoro will one day think he's good enough and wait for a moment to clash with him, probably as Shanks and Mihawk did during their youth.
Luffy clashing with the World Government is inevitable. And while Mihawk is on good terms with the Straw Hats I could still see him obeying the call of the WG (if only to face Zoro, his student who is now a world-renowned monster on his own after defeating several Yonkou commanders).
The Straw Hats vs. the Government, the perfect stage for a possible Zoro vs. Mihawk. The inevitable happens in an absolutely believable, organic manner. Not what I necessarily want, not what I think will happen, but something I can accept and enjoy if it does.
But now that the Shichibukai system will fall apart (pretty much a given after Fuji's line), that option doesn't seem to be a possibility anymore.
Zoro will one day think he's good enough and wait for a moment to clash with him
When exactly is "one day"? When will Zoro temporarily leave the crew (!?!?) to confront Mihawk? Sometime inbetween Kaido and Big Mum? After Luffy becomes the PK? After the Straw Hats defeat the Government? What triggers his decision to go after him?
Likewise, can anyone picture Mihawk simply showing up out of nowhere and randomly challenge Zoro? I honestly don't.
-
Likewise, can anyone picture Mihawk simply showing up out of nowhere and randomly challenge Zoro? I honestly don't.
Mihawk chills with Shanks sometimes. If he's there when the Strawhats meet up with Shanks, he and Zoro could go off for a little bit and fight, though it would break the happy atmosphere unless it was before something really big and bad was gonna happen (so they wouldn't have another chance for a loooong time).
-
But now that the Shichibukai system will fall apart (pretty much a given after Fuji's line), that option doesn't seem to be a possibility anymore.
While Fuji has made his statements… they may not go into effect until after the great war. So that would leave the stage intact for a Zoro vs Mihawk battle.
But like you mentioned... this doesn't really seem to be the direction the story will go any longer.Likewise, can anyone picture Mihawk simply showing up out of nowhere and randomly challenge Zoro? I honestly don't.
Actually… yes! LOL. Mihawk's first appearance was completely random and out of boredom. Isn't that a fitting way for them to have their showdown...
-
what if shillew chops one of mihawks arms off in a battle? wouldn't that mean mihawk would quit being a swordsman? after all mihawk didn't consider shanks a swordsman anymore after he lost his arm. if shillew did that after some dirty tricks then it would make things even better.
-
what if shillew chops one of mihawks arms off in a battle? wouldn't that mean mihawk would quit being a swordsman? after all mihawk didn't consider shanks a swordsman anymore after he lost his arm. if shillew did that after some dirty tricks then it would make things even better.
No, not really. Not without a proper build-up.
BB killing Shanks works because we already have so much info and investment into the possibility. Shanks even admits to WB that the scar he got from BB was not some lucky or cheap shot. -
Why do people think a student-teacher relationship should prevent Zoro vs. Mihawk from happening?
-
No they won't.
Yes they will, most of the crew will achieve their dream at raftel or around this time. Maybe Nami and Franky will complete it later but that's it. As for Chopper it's a given he will cure Lufy from a disease impossible to cure.
-
i still think that shanks will be the special boss who'll be waiting in front of one piece. not that shanks is actually a bad guy or anything like that. he just want to make sure that luffy got what it takes to be the pirate king. it wont be a battle to death so shanks will survive.
Yeah sure, Shanks will stop behaving like a fictional person and start behaving like a mindless nonsensical video game boss. It's a good thing normal fiction works on the same levels of suspension of disbelief that video games do, otherwise this would make no fucking sense.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I think it'd be good for the story if Shanks were to die by the hand of Blackbeard but on the other hand I'm also really looking forward to Luffy giving back his hat to Shanks and both crews having an amazing party together.
That could still happened you know. Like Luffy makes contact with Shanks and they have a genial time together. He hands back the hat, they party. Usopp talks with Yasopp.
They agree to be allies for the time being as long as Blackbeard is still out there. And work together to figure out how to get to Raftel. And that they plan to meet up again on some important date and time. They part ways.
But before that time happens Blackbeard's group attacks and wipes out Shanks and company.
And Luffy decides to pick up the hat in his place (imagine some plot point that gets the hat back to Luffy, like a surviving member or something).
Luffy makes some vow over the hat to fulfilly Shanks dreams as well (which is the same dream anyway) and the crew races off to beat the Blackbeard crew to Raftel and confront them.