@Galaxy:
Her powers have a range of 4000km.
It's an outrageous distance… but that's what Oda wrote when she was describing her ability to Sanji.
Distances and passing time are not Odas strong points.
Official Dressrosa Thread
-
-
@Don:
Distances and passing time are not Odas strong points.
Isn't 4000 kilometres like from the bottom of US to the top? (In its deepest points)
And not only that, it's a radius
-
@Galaxy:
Her powers have a range of 4000km.
It's an outrageous distance… but that's what Oda wrote when she was describing her ability to Sanji.
Wow. I didn't realize it was that much. Well I suppose she could get an update on Sanji.
-
@Don:
Distances and passing time are not Odas strong points.
What makes you say this? He hasn't been off on anything in particular from what I recall. What relation does this have with Viola's ability though?
-
What makes you say this? He hasn't been off on anything in particular from what I recall. What relation does this have with Viola's ability though?
100 chapter arcs happening in one day, whole journey so far counted together was just a few weeks (without the TS of course) and i recall in particular that Oda got once the radius of FI wrong, because it was mentioned that Hody´s attack travelled a few miles (which would have implied, that FI would be partly above sea level…guessed that was fixed for the volumne)
Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_
IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
-
@Don:
100 chapter arcs happening in one day, whole journey so far counted together was just a few weeks (without the TS of course) and i recall in particular that Oda got once the radius of FI wrong, because it was mentioned that Hody´s attack travelled a few miles (which would have implied, that FI would be partly above sea level…guessed that was fixed for the volumne)
Oh yeah I remember this. People were making mathematical graphs and equations to figure out that Oda was way off with his Fishman island scale, lol. It was later changed in the volume release and I can't help feel like it was the fans that noticed before Oda or any editors and it was because of them that it got straitened out.
-
Viola just needs a little awakening
Dude i swear your halirious, i would rep you if this forum had it, keep up the entertainment. Assuming she did awaken are talking about her abilities or physical attributes..
-
Weren't the 4000 km based on some pun? Well, lucky Viola!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah, it's a pun. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Giro_Giro_no_Mi
-
@Don:
100 chapter arcs happening in one day
Chapter count isn't indicative of time.
whole journey so far counted together was just a few weeks (without the TS of course)
The Journey from chapter 1 to the end of part one lasted several months. Oda has consistently explained the passage of time through speech boxes and character exposition.
because it was mentioned that Hody´s attack travelled a few miles (which would have implied, that FI would be partly above sea level…guessed that was fixed for the volumne)
That was a mistake and it was fixed like you said so this doesn't imply that he and his editors lack knowledge on basic geography.
-
Well, you can see it your way, wasn´t that serious anyways.
Had just the impression, may or may it not be based on facts.
Maybe i/we forgot some cases. -
I'll be disappointed if Luffy is able to beat Doflamingo with his gear 4 move. Because it feels very much like a dues ex machina manuever. I would have liked to have seen Doflamingo not be so helpless against it, and for them both to be equal.
-
Chapter count isn't indicative of time. The Journey from chapter 1 to the end of part one lasted several months. Oda has consistently explained the passage of time through speech boxes and character exposition. That was a mistake and it was fixed like you said so this doesn't imply that he and his editors lack knowledge on basic geography.
Several months is really really pushing it . Maybe a month or two at best .
-
@Doffy.:
Several months is really really pushing it . Maybe a month or two at best .
Adding all the days shown/stated in the series from the moment they enter the grand line, you'd get a factual estimate of 3 months at the very least. Oda always did the "several days" timeskip so this is a lowball. This isn't even taking into account the time the spent in the East Blue and other times they've been sailing not seen by the reader. At a Toei Animation panel, they were asked how long Luffy had been sailing and they said it'd been at the very least 6 months.
This is as official as we're going to get. -
I'll be disappointed if Luffy is able to beat Doflamingo with his gear 4 move. Because it feels very much like a dues ex machina manuever. I would have liked to have seen Doflamingo not be so helpless against it, and for them both to be equal.
Huh? Doflamingo's been beating the crap out of all his opponents. It's about time he gets the same treatment. This fight needs to end, so we can move on to Fujitora's true intentions.
-
Huh? Doflamingo's been beating the crap out of all his opponents. It's about time he gets the same treatment. This fight needs to end, so we can move on to Fujitora's true intentions.
Doffy has been dishing and taking a lot. I agree the fight needs to end soon. Dressrosa is proving quite a slog.
P.S I can't stop watching your signature. I wish I could find a slow motion version of it. I also hope it becomes canon
-
Adding all the days shown/stated in the series from the moment they enter the grand line, you'd get a factual estimate of 3 months at the very least. Oda always did the "several days" timeskip so this is a lowball. This isn't even taking into account the time the spent in the East Blue and other times they've been sailing not seen by the reader. At a Toei Animation panel, they were asked how long Luffy had been sailing and they said it'd been at the very least 6 months.
This is as official as we're going to get.That's from the anime team, it doesn't count for an official anything and they barely know jack beyond surface material anyway.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
-
That's from the anime team, it doesn't count for an official anything and they barely know jack beyond surface material anyway.
I said as official as we're going to get. They're word holds far more weight than any fan. They've actually had contact with Oda. I'm not about to argue about this.
-
I said as official as we're going to get. They're word holds far more weight than any fan. They've actually had contact with Oda. I'm not about to argue about this.
No not really. They make mistakes and take liberties time and time again. The fans are the ones that have made an amazing effort to keep track of the passage of time and probably have a better idea of it than anyone besides Oda himself.
I remember the day that was said during Anime Expo. Even then it was questionable.
-
I decided to make a comprehensive list of the many aspects of Dressrosa and how it compares to other arcs. I feel that Dressrosa in some ways is supposed to be an homage to all the earlier arcs in some way, as to transition into the Yonko battles that are up ahead. The post is long, so I made titles for each aspect for those who don't want to read the whole thing. Let me know what you think.
! Dressrosa brings a mix of reactions from people, from outright hate to outright love and everything in between. Not only is there a mix of reactions, but the arc is a melting pot of ideas from other arcs into one. At first people complained about it being Alabasta 2.0, but looking into it more deeply, I would call it “Grandline 2.0: The Arc”. I’m about to put in a comprehensive guide of the various ideas that have been put in other arcs, and how they are mixed into this arc, and how they measure up to the ideas before. I’ll try to be brief as possible, but this will be a doozy of a post.
! Barogue Works and Under World Broker
! Our first major introduction into the Grandline was the organization known as Barogue Works, an organization known to consist of bounty hunters. Zoro was offered a position there once because of his fame in the East Blue, which he declined. While the network is known about, the boss is a mystery to everyone except his partner. During the first island in the New World, we learn that Ceasar Clown works for an underworld broker named Joker. Joker supplies weapons to various countries but his identity is only known by the higher up officers. In the end, both bosses end up being Shikibukai who have devious plans, who use their status to hide their doings.
! Barogue Works was much better implemented, as there were smaller islands to establish the pecking order, and help build up to the confrontation of the organization. We got some variety of fruit powers in action, but overtime got an idea of how one needed to know their powers well if they wanted to get far. As time went on, they would fight the stronger opponents, which appeared in the final destination. The organizational structure for Jokers Organization was given all at once, and some of the more threatening members were shown first. This doesn’t give anticipation of seeing the stronger members later, and showing everyone at once takes away anticipation of character design. However, there were better developed members compared to Barogue Works, as we got some deeper background on some characters, and saw earlier moments of the family before the fights.
! Crocodile and Doflamingo
! Both of these villains have a grand plan, which is to gain power through certain means by their deception, which they would use to rule the seas. Crocodile wished to find Pluton, an ancient weapon which he would use to take down all his opponents. He would later be connected with Whitebeard as the Yonko he had against. Doflamingo made his own weapons to expand his influence, causing chaos around him. Most likely he was testing the weapons by giving them to others to perfect, then when the time was right would use his arsenal and influence to rule the world, or rather destroy it, for those that wronged him. In this case, Doflamingo is connected to Kaido.
! Doflamingo was shown to be more successful compared to Crocodile. He had taken over a Kingdom in a night, where Crocodile took years to plan a rebellion. Doflamingo had lots of influence and power in areas, where Crocodile had his hero title and some backing from the World Government. In both cases though, they had mastery over their powers, capable of causing great destruction with said powers. In Crocodiles case, his downfall was because the Straw Hats came in at the time he enacted his plan. In Doflamingos case, everything came against him at once, with many plans going on at the same time to take him down.
! In the case of Crocodile, he had a more mysterious aura about him. Little was and is still known about him. We don’t know his reasoning for his goals, but he is quite the planner which would’ve gone on without a hitch if Luffy hadn’t come in at the wrong time. He had to work a long time in order to get what he needed. Doflamingo instead was given many of his things, despite having to regain certain aspects. Because of having Conquerors Haki, he was made the boss of a group which would grow into his family. They went and did his bidding, and eventually got back to his status, and more. While he did have to put in effort, his knowledge gave him a much easier position to get things done. With his backstory known, there is less mystery to him. Both are good characters in their own right, but their effectiveness comes down to personal taste.
! Doflamingo and Moriah
! While not nearly as similar as Doflamingo and Crocodile, they do have similarities not involving their interaction at Marine Ford. They both have a connection to Kaido, but whereas Doflamingo is providing Kaido with fruits, Moriah was set on taking Kaido down. Moriah and his crew set up shop to increase their power through making a zombie army, but because of that they became weaker as a result. Doflamingo set up a base to increase his power reserves, but his own crew became complacent, and grew weaker with the luxury they got. Their dreams are not attainable because their growth halted after a certain point by refusing to move forward. Also, the monster sized, temporarily powered up Luffy that was needed to take them down.
! Doflamingo and Enel
! Some similarities here as well. First you got a God complex, where both see themselves above others. They’ve been above everyone else for so long, they lost any humility they might’ve had. Not only that, but when the uprising happens against them, they turn it into a game. Enel will allow one person to come with him, which is whoever is left standing. Doflamingo will allow people to decide what they want to do, and will reward those who help him. Both get a moment in the chaos where their seeming invincibility is shattered, and take some massive damage. In the end, the effect is negligible, as their powers allow them to get back up and shrug on. In the decisive fight against Luffy, they impose a time limit, and that if Luffy isn’t fast enough, everyone dies.
! Davy Back Fight and the Tournament
Some might consider this a stretch, but I feel it works in a way. Before getting to the meat of the arc, there is a little bit of “filler”. Before Water Seven, Luffy goes into a game which he could potentially lose his crew members. In Dressrosa, Luffy goes into a tournament where he puts his crew into a tough position, as he isn’t there to be part of the plan. In both we have crazy designs and some unique powers come in. Luffy comes out as a winner, and the distraction comes to an end as something else comes into play.
! The Davy Back Fight worked better overall. It was its own self-contained thing, which was the focus the whole time. It also brought the idea of the crew being separated, which happened in Water 7, and played a big role. The tournament, while was essential for Luffy getting allies and introducing certain characters, was thrown into part of the arc, making a chaotic arc even more chaotic. Because of the dump of characters given to us, only a few have been memorable, even considering the later fights.
! Introduction of a new Admiral
! After the Davy Back fight, Aokiji is introduced. He easily overpowers everyone and causes the plot to move forward into the water seven arc. After Luffy finishes his round, he see’s Law getting man handled by Doflamingo and Fujitora. After Fujitora handles Zoro easily and leaves, the plot begins to move to the next part of Dressrosa, where Doflamingos reality slowly starts to shatter.
! Aokiji worked much better, as he wasn’t around the whole time, making readers wonder why he was or wasn’t doing certain things. While we know Fujitora’s motivations, him being on the Straw Hats side ultimately makes certain aspects harder to swallow, such as any threats on the island.
! Princess in a tough spot.
! The most well liked princess is Vivi. We also had Shirahoshi, who is on the more negative side. In this arc we get introduced to Rebecca, who we find out later is actually the princess of the old Dressrosa royal family. Like Vivi, her life has been put in a dangerous situation because of a Shikibukai behind their lives. In Vivi’s case, she learns of Crocodiles plan, and goes undercover to stop his plan. In Rebeccas case, most of her life has been miserable because of Doflamingo, and uses a bloodless fighting style when fighting to give Doflamingo the middle finger.
! The problem with Rebecca is once again that she is put in an arc saturated with characters, where Vivi not only was in an arc with fewer characters to worry about, but had some time before her story arc to become known. By the time they reached Alabasta, Vivi was one of the crew in some ways, and we could get an emotional connection to her. Rebecca was introduced quickly, and was a one of many underdeveloped characters that we were supposed to get connected to emotionally, along with Kyros, Viola, the Dwarves, King Riku, and Law. One well established character for an emotional connection is better than many underdeveloped characters to try to latch on to.
! Gears, Gears, Gears
! In Enes Lobby, we got an introduction to Gear 2 and 3. After Luffy being swatted around like a fly by Aokiji and CP-9, he needed to become stronger in order to keep up. He came up with a way to use his power to increase his speed and strength in order to take on greater opponents. In Dressrosa, we learn that Luffy needed to increase his strength and speed use better in order to continue on. He had to come up with a new gear to take on some of the beasts on the island. Thus we got introduced to Gear 4.
! While I love Gear 4, the effect isn’t nearly the same. Part of it is the idea is quite old, but also that the execution was not as well done. At Enes Lobby, we wondered how Luffy could take on the people that beat him with ease. Gear 2 was introduced and showed how it allowed him to take on the weakest with ease. Before he was taken down, we knew that a different gear was in Luffys arsenal. This gave us time to look forward to what the other one would be. Gear 4 on the other hand came in right away, and there wasn’t a form before to adjust people to the idea of what would be Gear 4. Gear 4 being Gear 5, with Gear 4 being a mid-point of Gear 5 might’ve helped with certain things. We could get an idea of the direction it would go, and would help hype Gear 5. Instead, Gear 4 is introduced quickly in the final fight.
! Allies to Luffy!
! In Enes Lobby, and more Marineford, we suddenly had many people backing Luffy towards a goal. In Enes Lobby, the Franky family and Paulie helped Luffy take on the Marines. At Marineford, many helped Luffy get to Ace, and after his failure get him back to safety. In this case, you have a combination of both. Many people come together to help Luffy get to his destination, then you have others come later to get Luffy to safety. Effectiveness really comes to taste, and in each case you had certain characters that stood out more than others with who was helping others.
! Giants and Dwarves.
! In little Garden we met two Giants from Elbaf. In that place everything was bigger than the crew. In Green Bit, you had the opposite in some sorts. Everything is of similar size, but the inhabitants are Dwarves, who humans are giants in comparison to. Of course, in Dressrosa you have a giant as well.
! Noland, Usopp, and Lies that are true.
! We had a continuation of Nolands story, where we find out he came in contact with the Dwarves. Noland was known as a liar, and when he told people about the kingdom of gold, he was executed as a liar. What’s the first thing that happened with Usopp? He made a lie about being a hero, and was called Usoland. Eventually that lie came to bite him in the butt, and had to face the reality. He then came back, and started his path to becoming a true hero. He took out Sugar twice, once by a gag, and then developed Haki to snipe and take her out.
! So what do I mean by lies that are true? Well Noland told of the gold kingdom, but because of it being gone he was accused of lying and was executed. Later the place was discovered and his honor was restored. During my reread of the arc Usopp was introduced in, he told of a tale to Kaya where he killed a giant goldfish, and served it to little people. While that exact scenario hasn’t happened, it’s very close to the narrative now. Usopp the “hero”, has helped out the little people the “dwarves”, where around their area there are deadly giant goldfish known as fighting fish.
! …
! There are probably even more aspects that I could think of, but this is long enough already. I feel that Oda is taking a lot of aspects of all the earlier arcs, and condensed them into one arc, which has produced mixed results. Perhaps this is to show the closing of what was the Shikibukai and Marines as the main antagonists for a while, and now it’s time to shift focus to the Yonko. More likely it’s just an arc crammed with so many ideas will have similarities to other things.
! No matter what everyone thinks, one thing is for sure. I have too much damn free time on my hands. -
@The:
I decided to make a comprehensive list of the many aspects of Dressrosa and how it compares to other arcs. I feel that Dressrosa in some ways is supposed to be an homage to all the earlier arcs in some way, as to transition into the Yonko battles that are up ahead. The post is long, so I made titles for each aspect for those who don't want to read the whole thing. Let me know what you think.
! Dressrosa brings a mix of reactions from people, from outright hate to outright love and everything in between. Not only is there a mix of reactions, but the arc is a melting pot of ideas from other arcs into one. At first people complained about it being Alabasta 2.0, but looking into it more deeply, I would call it “Grandline 2.0: The Arc”. I’m about to put in a comprehensive guide of the various ideas that have been put in other arcs, and how they are mixed into this arc, and how they measure up to the ideas before. I’ll try to be brief as possible, but this will be a doozy of a post.
! Barogue Works and Under World Broker
! Our first major introduction into the Grandline was the organization known as Barogue Works, an organization known to consist of bounty hunters. Zoro was offered a position there once because of his fame in the East Blue, which he declined. While the network is known about, the boss is a mystery to everyone except his partner. During the first island in the New World, we learn that Ceasar Clown works for an underworld broker named Joker. Joker supplies weapons to various countries but his identity is only known by the higher up officers. In the end, both bosses end up being Shikibukai who have devious plans, who use their status to hide their doings.
! Barogue Works was much better implemented, as there were smaller islands to establish the pecking order, and help build up to the confrontation of the organization. We got some variety of fruit powers in action, but overtime got an idea of how one needed to know their powers well if they wanted to get far. As time went on, they would fight the stronger opponents, which appeared in the final destination. The organizational structure for Jokers Organization was given all at once, and some of the more threatening members were shown first. This doesn’t give anticipation of seeing the stronger members later, and showing everyone at once takes away anticipation of character design. However, there were better developed members compared to Barogue Works, as we got some deeper background on some characters, and saw earlier moments of the family before the fights.
! Crocodile and Doflamingo
! Both of these villains have a grand plan, which is to gain power through certain means by their deception, which they would use to rule the seas. Crocodile wished to find Pluton, an ancient weapon which he would use to take down all his opponents. He would later be connected with Whitebeard as the Yonko he had against. Doflamingo made his own weapons to expand his influence, causing chaos around him. Most likely he was testing the weapons by giving them to others to perfect, then when the time was right would use his arsenal and influence to rule the world, or rather destroy it, for those that wronged him. In this case, Doflamingo is connected to Kaido.
! Doflamingo was shown to be more successful compared to Crocodile. He had taken over a Kingdom in a night, where Crocodile took years to plan a rebellion. Doflamingo had lots of influence and power in areas, where Crocodile had his hero title and some backing from the World Government. In both cases though, they had mastery over their powers, capable of causing great destruction with said powers. In Crocodiles case, his downfall was because the Straw Hats came in at the time he enacted his plan. In Doflamingos case, everything came against him at once, with many plans going on at the same time to take him down.
! In the case of Crocodile, he had a more mysterious aura about him. Little was and is still known about him. We don’t know his reasoning for his goals, but he is quite the planner which would’ve gone on without a hitch if Luffy hadn’t come in at the wrong time. He had to work a long time in order to get what he needed. Doflamingo instead was given many of his things, despite having to regain certain aspects. Because of having Conquerors Haki, he was made the boss of a group which would grow into his family. They went and did his bidding, and eventually got back to his status, and more. While he did have to put in effort, his knowledge gave him a much easier position to get things done. With his backstory known, there is less mystery to him. Both are good characters in their own right, but their effectiveness comes down to personal taste.
! Doflamingo and Moriah
! While not nearly as similar as Doflamingo and Crocodile, they do have similarities not involving their interaction at Marine Ford. They both have a connection to Kaido, but whereas Doflamingo is providing Kaido with fruits, Moriah was set on taking Kaido down. Moriah and his crew set up shop to increase their power through making a zombie army, but because of that they became weaker as a result. Doflamingo set up a base to increase his power reserves, but his own crew became complacent, and grew weaker with the luxury they got. Their dreams are not attainable because their growth halted after a certain point by refusing to move forward. Also, the monster sized, temporarily powered up Luffy that was needed to take them down.
! Doflamingo and Enel
! Some similarities here as well. First you got a God complex, where both see themselves above others. They’ve been above everyone else for so long, they lost any humility they might’ve had. Not only that, but when the uprising happens against them, they turn it into a game. Enel will allow one person to come with him, which is whoever is left standing. Doflamingo will allow people to decide what they want to do, and will reward those who help him. Both get a moment in the chaos where their seeming invincibility is shattered, and take some massive damage. In the end, the effect is negligible, as their powers allow them to get back up and shrug on. In the decisive fight against Luffy, they impose a time limit, and that if Luffy isn’t fast enough, everyone dies.
! Davy Back Fight and the Tournament
Some might consider this a stretch, but I feel it works in a way. Before getting to the meat of the arc, there is a little bit of “filler”. Before Water Seven, Luffy goes into a game which he could potentially lose his crew members. In Dressrosa, Luffy goes into a tournament where he puts his crew into a tough position, as he isn’t there to be part of the plan. In both we have crazy designs and some unique powers come in. Luffy comes out as a winner, and the distraction comes to an end as something else comes into play.
! The Davy Back Fight worked better overall. It was its own self-contained thing, which was the focus the whole time. It also brought the idea of the crew being separated, which happened in Water 7, and played a big role. The tournament, while was essential for Luffy getting allies and introducing certain characters, was thrown into part of the arc, making a chaotic arc even more chaotic. Because of the dump of characters given to us, only a few have been memorable, even considering the later fights.
! Introduction of a new Admiral
! After the Davy Back fight, Aokiji is introduced. He easily overpowers everyone and causes the plot to move forward into the water seven arc. After Luffy finishes his round, he see’s Law getting man handled by Doflamingo and Fujitora. After Fujitora handles Zoro easily and leaves, the plot begins to move to the next part of Dressrosa, where Doflamingos reality slowly starts to shatter.
! Aokiji worked much better, as he wasn’t around the whole time, making readers wonder why he was or wasn’t doing certain things. While we know Fujitora’s motivations, him being on the Straw Hats side ultimately makes certain aspects harder to swallow, such as any threats on the island.
! Princess in a tough spot.
! The most well liked princess is Vivi. We also had Shirahoshi, who is on the more negative side. In this arc we get introduced to Rebecca, who we find out later is actually the princess of the old Dressrosa royal family. Like Vivi, her life has been put in a dangerous situation because of a Shikibukai behind their lives. In Vivi’s case, she learns of Crocodiles plan, and goes undercover to stop his plan. In Rebeccas case, most of her life has been miserable because of Doflamingo, and uses a bloodless fighting style when fighting to give Doflamingo the middle finger.
! The problem with Rebecca is once again that she is put in an arc saturated with characters, where Vivi not only was in an arc with fewer characters to worry about, but had some time before her story arc to become known. By the time they reached Alabasta, Vivi was one of the crew in some ways, and we could get an emotional connection to her. Rebecca was introduced quickly, and was a one of many underdeveloped characters that we were supposed to get connected to emotionally, along with Kyros, Viola, the Dwarves, King Riku, and Law. One well established character for an emotional connection is better than many underdeveloped characters to try to latch on to.
! Gears, Gears, Gears
! In Enes Lobby, we got an introduction to Gear 2 and 3. After Luffy being swatted around like a fly by Aokiji and CP-9, he needed to become stronger in order to keep up. He came up with a way to use his power to increase his speed and strength in order to take on greater opponents. In Dressrosa, we learn that Luffy needed to increase his strength and speed use better in order to continue on. He had to come up with a new gear to take on some of the beasts on the island. Thus we got introduced to Gear 4.
! While I love Gear 4, the effect isn’t nearly the same. Part of it is the idea is quite old, but also that the execution was not as well done. At Enes Lobby, we wondered how Luffy could take on the people that beat him with ease. Gear 2 was introduced and showed how it allowed him to take on the weakest with ease. Before he was taken down, we knew that a different gear was in Luffys arsenal. This gave us time to look forward to what the other one would be. Gear 4 on the other hand came in right away, and there wasn’t a form before to adjust people to the idea of what would be Gear 4. Gear 4 being Gear 5, with Gear 4 being a mid-point of Gear 5 might’ve helped with certain things. We could get an idea of the direction it would go, and would help hype Gear 5. Instead, Gear 4 is introduced quickly in the final fight.
! Allies to Luffy!
! In Enes Lobby, and more Marineford, we suddenly had many people backing Luffy towards a goal. In Enes Lobby, the Franky family and Paulie helped Luffy take on the Marines. At Marineford, many helped Luffy get to Ace, and after his failure get him back to safety. In this case, you have a combination of both. Many people come together to help Luffy get to his destination, then you have others come later to get Luffy to safety. Effectiveness really comes to taste, and in each case you had certain characters that stood out more than others with who was helping others.
! Giants and Dwarves.
! In little Garden we met two Giants from Elbaf. In that place everything was bigger than the crew. In Green Bit, you had the opposite in some sorts. Everything is of similar size, but the inhabitants are Dwarves, who humans are giants in comparison to. Of course, in Dressrosa you have a giant as well.
! Noland, Usopp, and Lies that are true.
! We had a continuation of Nolands story, where we find out he came in contact with the Dwarves. Noland was known as a liar, and when he told people about the kingdom of gold, he was executed as a liar. What’s the first thing that happened with Usopp? He made a lie about being a hero, and was called Usoland. Eventually that lie came to bite him in the butt, and had to face the reality. He then came back, and started his path to becoming a true hero. He took out Sugar twice, once by a gag, and then developed Haki to snipe and take her out.
! So what do I mean by lies that are true? Well Noland told of the gold kingdom, but because of it being gone he was accused of lying and was executed. Later the place was discovered and his honor was restored. During my reread of the arc Usopp was introduced in, he told of a tale to Kaya where he killed a giant goldfish, and served it to little people. While that exact scenario hasn’t happened, it’s very close to the narrative now. Usopp the “hero”, has helped out the little people the “dwarves”, where around their area there are deadly giant goldfish known as fighting fish.
! …
! There are probably even more aspects that I could think of, but this is long enough already. I feel that Oda is taking a lot of aspects of all the earlier arcs, and condensed them into one arc, which has produced mixed results. Perhaps this is to show the closing of what was the Shikibukai and Marines as the main antagonists for a while, and now it’s time to shift focus to the Yonko. More likely it’s just an arc crammed with so many ideas will have similarities to other things.
! No matter what everyone thinks, one thing is for sure. I have too much damn free time on my hands.It's cool you took the time to write this one out. Definitely a lot of free time. I'm not sure if you're fitting theory to facts, but it kind of seems like it. Still a very good post, better than anything I've offered to the forum.
-
I guess this is the first time we have the main antagonist of an arc being a character we already knew for a long time, right? I hope this keeps happening frequently from now on. If we keep on having arcs with new main antagonists, One Piece will never end. But then again, I don't want it ever to end (but at the same time I want to see HOW it ends, haha).
"Now I'm living out here on the beach, but those seagulls are still out of reach."
-
@Eat:
I guess this is the first time we have the main antagonist of an arc being a character we already knew for a long time, right?
It depends what you class as a long time, really.
We knew about Crocodile for a good while before he appeared as the main antagonist in the Alabasta arc.
Obviously nowhere as long as we knew about Doffy though.
-
@Eat:
I guess this is the first time we have the main antagonist of an arc being a character we already knew for a long time, right? I hope this keeps happening frequently from now on. If we keep on having arcs with new main antagonists, One Piece will never end. But then again, I don't want it ever to end (but at the same time I want to see HOW it ends, haha).
Well dude, since they are at the last sea, it's going to end anytime soon
-
@The:
No matter what everyone thinks, one thing is for sure. I have too much damn free time on my hands.
I don't even have much free time to read that post ATM.
-
Fujitora not trying to stop birdcage is ridiculous now, we even have kanjuro pushing against it. Fujitora is supposed to care about the citizens.
I've said he could use his power of horizontal gravity to try and slow it's shrinking… but if his power can't do that he should physically try and push it.
-
I love Doffy so much but I doubt that he’ll be able to get a redemption arc-first of all he’s hurt Law too much which makes me think he won’t be allowed a redemption arc
also I think that unlike a character like Crocodile who will give up when beaten, I think Doflamingo’s need for power and wrathful need to cause chaos and destruction isn’t something that can be beaten out of him I think that as long as Doflamingo is free and has an inch of life left in him that he’ll try to be king of dressrosa. Doflamingo also has political power that will keep him out of prison even if he gets beaten which makes me afraid that Doflamingo might even die at the end of this arc because it’s not like he will be sent to Impel Down.
The only way out I can think of for Doflamingo is that his crew will save him and help him escape being killed by Kaidou. That would be an explanation as to why Oda has built up Doflamingo’s relationship with his crew so much aside from just the purpose of fleshing out his character.
But even then it’s hard to imagine where it would go from there- I don’t think Doflamingo is the type to like start a cafe with his crew members in a cover story arc. As long as Doflamingo is alive I think he’ll be seeking protection from the WG by using the secret he has that grants him power over them? The only other possible solution I could think of would be something like what’s happening with Moria where his crew has saved him and he’s hiding now probably still doing evil shit but on the down low -
DD is possibly one of the worst candidates to receive a redemption. Throughout the story and this arc in particular he's been portrayed as a sinister and scheming bastard; an evil guy through and through (barring the bonds he shares with his crew). Seeing him turn into a 'good' guy in any way would destroy whatever reputation he has left as a villain.
So what should happen to him? Personally I would love to see Doffy go out in a blaze (i.e. barely escaping from Dressrosa only to run into the hands of Kaidou. But instead of cowering in fear he'd charge straight at the Yonkou and ultimately get torn apart, meeting an end worthy of his name). But the chances of that happening I'm afraid are ridiculously low…
-
Ehh I kinda see a doflamingo beaten on the verge of death…then a cp0 Member arrives and says something like "we wanted to get rid of you anyway" and kills doffy, preferably shooting him and call it karma
-
Luffy will KO DD, so escape on his own is unlikely IMO. And even if he would not be KO, he would be way to injured to escape everyone there.
Ways to escape, if he escapes at all:
-
sugar turns him into toy.
-
Kaidou's men shows up and take him.
-
Absalom? For some reason Moria send him to help DD
-
CPO takes him.
-
???
-
-
@DHL:
I don't even have much free time to read that post ATM.
lol to both this and the post it quoted
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Fujitora not trying to stop birdcage is ridiculous now, we even have kanjuro pushing against it. Fujitora is supposed to care about the citizens.
I've said he could use his power of horizontal gravity to try and slow it's shrinking… but if his power can't do that he should physically try and push it.
dude is the worst admiral ever. Every other admiral would've at least captured DD and saved the citizens by now
-
lol to both this and the post it quoted
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
dude is the worst admiral ever. Every other admiral would've at least captured DD and saved the citizens by now
Fujitora does have his reasons for not doing anything. I mean, what better way to have things blow up in the WG's face than have an Admiral be there, all this shit goes down, and the Admiral wasn't able to do anything? Maynard did have suspicions about something going on, so Fujitora has to be careful on his actions, less he gets found out.
People seem to think that Fujitora is all about helping the people, but I don't think that's the case. People point to the scene of getting a count of the number of people that live in Dressrosa as proof Fujitora is acting different from his character. If we take the idea of Fujitora wanting to take out the Shikibukai status, and letting Doflamingo do as he pleases, we can get an idea of why he wanted the numbers taken. That way he can give numbers of people who could've been harmed, and a percent of people who died. Let's say Dressrosa has 10,000 citizens when first counted, and lets get an idea of the report Fujitora could give.
Initial count of citizens were approximately 10,000 people. However, a huge error was made somehow, as the total count of alive and dead exceeded 15,000. Somehow 5000 citizens were not included in the initial assessment. There were rumors that the toys were the missing citizens at some point, and because all the toys disappeared after the incident, there's a high chance that Doflamingo was behind it. This means that 5000 citizens were affected by Doflamingo long before the incident. However, a toy disposal area was found, so there's a chance of many more unaccounted citizens being killed over time. Add in not only all the citizens being affected by this incident, but the wars that Doflamingo allowed by supplying weapons, the effects of Doflamingo being a Shikibukai has caused massive damage in many areas."
Fujitora having numbers allows him to look like he did his job in some capacity, and show just how bad things were. So while he seems like a terrible admiral, he's doing a pretty good job to make his case.
-
I think the Fuji issue as well as that is feels there are too many characters and subplots are only symptoms of a way more terrible illness. And that is Doffy's role as a villain. Whereas his inner struggle and his dynamic with Law may be written well, his outer struggle on the other hand isn't.
So the message is that in the New Island things are way more complicated and difficult so that you cannot go on solely on your own and in order to proceed further you have to gather as many allies as possible, eh?
However, in order for that to work this arc would have needed a villain who is shown of actual capable to deal properly with all these characters and pull the strings together. However, despite Doffy's prior to Dressrosa characterised as someone who knows how to run his business and… I mean, he has a puppeteering fruit, so if anything this says that he should also be good at manipulating people of some different fractions. Well, he had some decent showings at the beginning of this arc, but then during the mid of the arc his villain credibility just jumped the shark. Instead of him continuing to use his influence and charisma and to manipulate the people around him and have overall control of the situation, he's basically just screwed up and resorts to defend what's left - for heavens sake 40+ chapters.If Doffy just would have been a better strategist and planner, all the issues about Fuji and the character overflow might become void. Instead of giving us the vibe that there are too many people around, we could have gotten the vibe that it's actually good all of them were around because otherwise the alliance wouldn't even stand the slightest chance against Doffy and his enormous empire.
And Fuji could, instead of giving us the vibe he's isn't properly embedded in this arc, be a full part in Doffy's schemings. And the twist about him just participating in these schemes in order for his long-term ambitions would have been played out way better IMO.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
-
@Bartholemew:
I think the Fuji issue as well as that is feels there are too many characters and subplots are only symptoms of a way more terrible illness. And that is Doffy's role as a villain. Whereas his inner struggle and his dynamic with Law may be written well, his outer struggle on the other hand isn't.
So the message is that in the New Island things are way more complicated and difficult so that you cannot go on solely on your own and in order to proceed further you have to gather as many allies as possible, eh?
However, in order for that to work this arc would have needed a villain who is shown of actual capable to deal properly with all these characters and pull the strings together. However, despite Doffy's prior to Dressrosa characterised as someone who knows how to run his business and… I mean, he has a puppeteering fruit, so if anything this says that he should also be good at manipulating people of some different fractions. Well, he had some decent showings at the beginning of this arc, but then during the mid of the arc his villain credibility just jumped the shark. Instead of him continuing to use his influence and charisma and to manipulate the people around him and have overall control of the situation, he's basically just screwed up and resorts to defend what's left - for heavens sake 40+ chapters.If Doffy just would have been a better strategist and planner, all the issues about Fuji and the character overflow might become void. Instead of giving us the vibe that there are too many people around, we could have gotten the vibe that it's actually good all of them were around because otherwise the alliance wouldn't even stand the slightest chance against Doffy and his enormous empire.
And Fuji could, instead of giving us the vibe he's isn't properly embedded in this arc, be a full part in Doffy's schemings. And the twist about him just participating in these schemes in order for his long-term ambitions would have been played out way better IMO.
DD has been portrayed as too much of a schemer and planner throughout the story. Having him act accordingly in Dressrosa would've resulted in the Strawhats+Law being dead by now. Had Doffy engineered everything to a degree worthy of his 'hype' he would've been near impossible to reach; much less to beat. His whole empire as you put it so eloquently would've been something impregnable.
So how do you take down such a guy without (completely) making him look like a pushover? By adding a number of unknown factors Doffy wasn't able to foresee. And by having Dressrosa's whole foundation built on a little girl and her devil fruit. Not enough? Take the villain's backstory and butcher the hell out of it to further justify his sick nature (read: make him lose even more credibility as the charismatic devil). And what do you get? The current situation in Dressrosa.
In short – Doflamingo's character was just too good for the story.
-
But this "too good for the story"-character is exactly the one I wanted to see fall.
So how do you take down such a guy without (completely) making him look like a pushover?
Well, Oda had 10+ years time to come up with a story good enough for this guy. In short, by utilizing everyones' abilities, be it protagonist or secondary characters, to its fullest so that everyone, absolutely everyone, has to bring his/her A game and therefore surpassing the enemies' A game.
I don't like this unknown sugar sick nature cake. Its taste… It's definitely too sugared.
-
DD has been portrayed as too much of a schemer and planner throughout the story. Having him act accordingly in Dressrosa would've resulted in the Strawhats+Law being dead by now. Had Doffy engineered everything to a degree worthy of his 'hype' he would've been near impossible to reach; much less to beat. His whole empire as you put it so eloquently would've been something impregnable.
So how do you take down such a guy without (completely) making him look like a pushover? By adding a number of unknown factors Doffy wasn't able to foresee. And by having Dressrosa's whole foundation built on a little girl and her devil fruit. Not enough? Take the villain's backstory and butcher the hell out of it to further justify his sick nature (read: make him lose even more credibility as the charismatic devil). And what do you get? The current situation in Dressrosa.
In short – Doflamingo's character was just too good for the story.
That is a really really strong point.
-
DD has been portrayed as too much of a schemer and planner throughout the story. Having him act accordingly in Dressrosa would've resulted in the Strawhats+Law being dead by now. Had Doffy engineered everything to a degree worthy of his 'hype' he would've been near impossible to reach; much less to beat. His whole empire as you put it so eloquently would've been something impregnable.
So how do you take down such a guy without (completely) making him look like a pushover? By adding a number of unknown factors Doffy wasn't able to foresee. And by having Dressrosa's whole foundation built on a little girl and her devil fruit. Not enough? Take the villain's backstory and butcher the hell out of it to further justify his sick nature (read: make him lose even more credibility as the charismatic devil). And what do you get? The current situation in Dressrosa.
In short – Doflamingo's character was just too good for the story.
So you're saying his character was too good back when he had no character?
…what?
-
Prediction for next chapter. Possibly cliffhanger before break.
! Luffy being Jozu.
!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So you're saying his character was too good back when he had no character?
…what?
Oda has to make the top characters defeatable and nerf them in a way for the main character to progress.
Doflamingo's had everything go perfectly to plan and then as soon as Luffy comes everything goes down to nothing. It's plot, it's the story moving forward.
It's kinda funny IMO, Oda makes us not want the villains defeated or look bad. Some people even cheer the villain on.
-
DD has been portrayed as too much of a schemer and planner throughout the story. Having him act accordingly in Dressrosa would've resulted in the Strawhats+Law being dead by now. Had Doffy engineered everything to a degree worthy of his 'hype' he would've been near impossible to reach; much less to beat. His whole empire as you put it so eloquently would've been something impregnable.
So how do you take down such a guy without (completely) making him look like a pushover? By adding a number of unknown factors Doffy wasn't able to foresee. And by having Dressrosa's whole foundation built on a little girl and her devil fruit. Not enough? Take the villain's backstory and butcher the hell out of it to further justify his sick nature (read: make him lose even more credibility as the charismatic devil). And what do you get? The current situation in Dressrosa.
In short – Doflamingo's character was just too good for the story.
Don character was not too good for the story , don is just like everyone else .
Also it's impossible to plan for everything .
His whole empire was not impregnable due to simple fact that him losing CC could have made a yonko wipe him out .
That is if luffy had stick to law plan and not try to do it him self .TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .
-
Don character was not too good for the story , don is just like everyone else .
Also it's impossible to plan for everything .
His whole empire was not impregnable due to simple fact that him losing CC could have made a yonko wipe him out .
That is if luffy had stick to law plan and not try to do it him self .And also it was not impregnable due to Sugar as well as it relied on her extremely.
Its Enzeru's point.
I'm sure Doflamingo would have a fallback and redirect Kaido's anger as well. Like for example Strawhats stealing Ceaser and Big mom gunning for Ceaser.
Really, in the end Kaido would lose his supply.
-
@DHL:
And also it was not impregnable due to Sugar as well as it relied on her extremely.
Its Enzeru's point.
I'm sure Doflamingo would have a fallback and redirect Kaido's anger as well. Like for example Strawhats stealing Ceaser and Big mom gunning for Ceaser.
Really, in the end Kaido would lose his supply.
Don is not as smart as some people make him out to be and he underestimated people .
His fall back plan was to try and get back CC which is why he went threw all the trouble with CP0.
Big Mom went to destroy a island because it did not have her candy i doubt don would have got away from Kaido by blaming someone else that easy.
Truth is Don took control of a country for 10 years i doubt he would have been able to do that without some form of hax to begin with. -
I don't know why people just wanted Doflamingo to be outright evil and nothing else. Heck, he is still a despicable person, and what he's done is not right. His backstory was to show that he is not a complete monster, that there was something to him at one point. However, just like other characters in the series who have had tragedies, he instead from his spoiled upbringing decided to get back at everybody for what they did to him. I like the idea that a guy with all these ambitions did it because in the end, he's a spoiled brat. I feel it works quite well, and he still is quite intimidating.
As for his whole empire, Doflamingo and his crew is a lot like a mafia. If you are part of the family, you get treated well. Someone hurts you, everyone will back you up. Only the people in the family can give each other a hard time, but there is still a pecking order in some sense. You don't make fun of the Don, and his closest people are sacred. Going with this, he has a far reach on many islands, and has a number of things going for him. The problem is that his biggest client, who is also bigger than him, was on the line. Ceasar Clown made the smiles, which he supplied to Kaido. You also have Ceasar Clown make weapons to sell to the underground brokers. That's two major things on the line. We find out Doflamingo also supplies regular weapons for wars, which he allows to continue for profit, though that isn't as big.
As for Sugar, her role is somewhat essential, but not necessarily needed for the entire empire. She is good for getting rid of people trying to sniff around his business, and instead of killing people which could raise questions, their existence is erased. It also allowed for free labor, as the toys could do nothing about it. Here's another thing, almost nobody knew about Sugar. They only learned about her because of the Tonattas, and only they were able to let a few people know. Luffy and Law almost got caught by Sugar if it wasn't for Ussop. Yes, her going down caused a shift, but combined with everything else going on, it was only part of the reaction that severely threatened Doflamingo. If Sugar somehow fainted before or something happened where only the toys came back to life, Doflamingo could've figured out the problem and get rid of it. There's also the theory that curfew was used to allow Sugar to sleep, while the people couldn't do anything.
I think Doflamingo's character is just fine, and overall his falling down is fine. While he claimed he wouldn't underestimate anyone, he wasn't prepared for everything. Being a boss of a vast empire doesn't make them super smart or infallible.
-
Don is not as smart as some people make him out to be and he underestimated people .
His fall back plan was to try and get back CC which is why he went threw all the trouble with CP0.
Big Mom went to destroy a island because it did not have her candy i doubt don would have got away from Kaido by blaming someone else that easy.
Truth is Don took control of a country for 10 years i doubt he would have been able to do that without some form of hax to begin with.I knew you would have brought up big mom.
Big mom is fighting over candy for herself, not to create an army of Devil fruit users to conquer everyone. Big mom has got multiple candy suppliers. One had failed just before fishman Island did.
Doflamingo was offering a super exclusive hidden service to Kaido and was considered his top client. That's the difference.
-
@DHL:
I knew you would have brought up big mom.
Big mom is fighting over candy for herself, not to create an army of Devil fruit users to conquer everyone. Big mom has got multiple candy suppliers. One had failed just before fishman Island did.
Doflamingo was offering a super exclusive hidden service to Kaido and was considered his top client. That's the difference.
What is the difference ?
That Kaido not going to be piss if he can't get his DF anymore.
Don and Kaido are not friends , there in business together and him not holding up his part of the deal is his problem .
I am have opinion that don saying i could not deliver the goods because a or b or c happen to kaido not going to work since it's Don responsibility . -
@The:
but not necessarily needed for the entire empire.
Nice post as always Franky..
Sugar however was DEFINITELY needed. We had government officials turned into toys and revolutionaries. If everything was documented a long time ago, Doflamingo would have been long gone from the Shichibukai and his empire not even able to progress.
Even the Revolutionaries, the Revo's kept failing to report messages back to Dragon on weapon trades. It reached the point where Dragon sent his highest in command to suss it out.
On a side point
These smiles though.. Doflamingo was definitely up to something. One does not simply make an Enemy stronger for no reason–- Update From New Post Merge ---
What is the difference ?
That Kaido not going to be piss if he can't get his DF anymore.He's gonna be pissed, just like any client would if they can't get their supply.
Yes Kaido and his forces can crush Doflamingos country and his family. But what would he actually get out of it?
-
@DHL:
Nice post as always Franky..
Sugar however was DEFINITELY needed. We had government officials turned into toys and revolutionaries. If everything was documented a long time ago, Doflamingo would have been long gone from the Shichibukai and his empire not even able to progress.
Even the Revolutionaries, the Revo's kept failing to report messages back to Dragon on weapon trades. It reached the point where Dragon sent his highest in command to suss it out.
On a side point
These smiles though.. Doflamingo was definitely up to something. One does not simply make an Enemy stronger for no reasonThis we agree on without sugar don would never been able to keep his empire for 10 years .
You have to many people and groups on and off the island for no info not to come out over 10 years . -
This we agree on without sugar don would never been able to keep his empire for 10 years .
You have to many people and groups on and off the island for no info not to come out over 10 years .Of course i agree on it.
It supports Enzeru's point in his post.
-
@DHL:
Of course i agree on it.
It supports Enzeru's point in his post.
It does not IMO.
He was saying how don is a schemer and planner and how smart he is .
Sugar just show it has nothing to do with that but just having a hax power to help you out .
I never saw part of don hype being any of those things , saw him being a blood lust crazy baster when we saw him in the war .EDIT now that i think about it croc is a much better schemer and planner since he had no hax DFs to help him out.
-
It does not IMO.
He was saying how don is a schemer and planner and how smart he is .
Sugar just show it has nothing to do with that but just having a hax power to help you out .
I never saw part of don hype being any of those things , saw him being a blood lust crazy baster when we saw him in the war .Not what I was referring to.
Oda needed to have someone such as sugar in the plot to make him defeatable (not sure if correct diction).
Personally the hype dissapointed me. Not so much the plot characteristics but more in an fighting standpoint.
-
It does not IMO. He was saying how don is a schemer and planner and how smart he is . Sugar just show it has nothing to do with that but just having a hax power to help you out . I never saw part of don hype being any of those things , saw him being a blood lust crazy baster when we saw him in the war .
Doflamingo was the one who gave Sugar her powers. It doesn't matter how it's done. The fact that it was done is the only thing that matters. That's something you need to realise.
