Honestly, I'd be a little heartbroken if Fujitora doesn't attempt to rough up Doflamingo at least somewhat. I'd hope more for a FFA than a "let's smash Law down"-fest.
Chapter 717: "The Forgotten of Dressrosa"
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I say within 5 - 7 chapters the fighting begins and everything comes together. This chapter was pretty feelsy, poor toys, damned to a life in an expressionless shell and being forgotten by the use of doublethink. Also part of me feels that Luffy will discover the factory accidentally by pulling a Gear third elephant gun on something. Waiting for C block to be over already. Chinjao's character has disappointed a bit, but I'm hoping to see what it is that Garp took from him and how he got his bipolar-bipolar devil fruit.
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I'll be disappointed if Dressrosa ends up being shorter than Punk Hazard.
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Yeah pfft Garp, what a pushover. He wouldn't ever be able to handle the likes of Moria.
You are just an awesome Pomeranian.
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I'll be disappointed if Dressrosa ends up being shorter than Punk Hazard.
Dressrosa well be free that well take looong time
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@Monkey:
Why the heck do people keep assuming all VA's are some sort of identical group of powers, rather than the lobby of strong guys who are near the top but don't fill the three admiral spots. Meaning the bottom floor could be someone simple enough, and the top is people who would otherwise actually BE Admirals like Garp. No idea why you say not to bring him up, when refusing to aknowledge him is exactly why you're confused.
cause I assume no one else is in Garps league in the category, we've been told the only reason he wasn't an admiral was because he denied it (actualy shown it in one piece chapter zero)
unless your saying plenty other Vice Admirals are Admiral level and simply deny the chance to advance to admiral position and constantly let the fleet admiral down
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I hope you did this one purpose, otherwise the irony….
Yeah I did, I was hoping it was obvious.
I hope we find out more about the extend of CoC in this fight. I mean we know it shows peoples wills and can take out fodder. But I'm hoping we'll see how it does more that. Also a set up for the tournament to end early. I wouldn't mind Dressrosa ending with Diamante being the final villain and save Dofla for a Law rescue/Zou arc (but we all know that won't happen).
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Still, one guy is completely bloody while the other two are untouched. He beat Smoker fairly easy and humiliated Vergo as soon as he got his heart back and could fight properly. Difference between VAs and Admirals seem monumental, especially since I got the feeling that Vergo is one of the strongest VAs out there. I have to say I am annoyed the fight between them is being skipped, even though I feared this will happen. I wonder if next time Oda shows us Green Bitt, it will either show Law being KO'ed or Law disappearing/teleporting. :getlost: Please don't skip this Oda!
@wolfwoof:
In all seriousness though G-5 is a dumping ground
It's not where the cream of the crop go
You'd never finds spotsworth or manly stache there
I think that just the relation betwen Vergo and Dofla clears everything about Vergo.
Someway or another Vergo has been put on G-5 to cover Doflamingo, because Dofla has the power to do such a stint.Sure Admirals are way stronger than VAs though Devil's Fruit powers make a big difference, basically the ability gives people a clear boost to reach the Admiral position. :p
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I'am just wondering, why doflamingo lure luffy with mera mera no mi so he will fight at coloseum.
and from this chapter we know there are "Dark Factory" at coloseum basement.
if indeed the "Dark Factory" is the one where smile being made.
then it's the same as Doflamingo invites the enemy to his doorstep.i believe that doflamingo know law luffy objective is to destroy doflamingo smiles production. and doflamingo seem like a smart fellow.
i doubt the "Dark Factory" is smile factory. so..- it could be at the toy house factory
- or maybe smiles factory not located at dressrosa at all :ninja:
- if indeed "Dark Factory" is where smile being made, i think doflamingo just overconvident that he can defeat law and luffy with the marine assist, if he seperated them.(law green bit, luffy coloseum). but this could be a blunder that will lead to the fall of doflamingo rule at dressrosa and his title as shichibukai (theres chance he won't lose his shichibukai title , because he seem well conected to WG or even Tenryubito?) also have one of the yonko (the strongest creature alive) Kaido lol hunting him.:getlost:
why i think that doflamingo makes a blunder, because we see law as a strategist so i think he will somehow deal with current situation.(yes law not looking great, but on OP bleeding and getting thrown all over the place not means he will lose). and we all know how luffy is (unpredictable) .
can't wait for next chapter, i'am feel really excited theres many road to explore want to see how Oda sensei warp this arc i hope it will be epic
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Hi everyone. I haven't read your messages. There are a few things I don't understand. I'll read 23 pages and I'll try to fix these parts.
Here we go.
I was curious about cover, I wanted to see Kaidou's Man vs. Revolution Leader.
Chinjou said there are a lot of Conqueror's Haki users. I guess all "Don" families use it. Don Chinjao family, Don Quixote family, etc. Also, I guess there are 13 Don family. (legend of 13 family, who rules Usa or The World. Oda likes and uses legends like this.)
Chinjao's punchs which have family technique hurts Luffy. (Rounds around Chinjao's hand.) The fight won't finish that quick.
The Marine soldiers Sanji saw were digging the ground. Maybe they have information about what's happening underground.
Oda wouldn't spend Rebecca, it was obvious. So, D block fights won't start. Plus, Bellamy will move soon and Cavendish won't stay about that move.
Vice-admiral Bastille. Hmmpfss.. Shark Slayer. Probably he doesn't use devil fruit. Maybe we can see Kinemon vs. Bastille.
I think there is a bug here. People forget who's become a toy. Nami and the others became toys. http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-715-page-8.html And Law says that he calls Nami. Nami must be forgotten. (?)
Law eject his sword but neither Fujitora nor Doflamingo is sliced. Plus, there is blood on Law's face. It means Law is in trouble.
Dwarf said Donquixote family is on their way. They're heading to Collesium. Also Dwarves are going to Collesium. Marines are there too. Probably we'll see a big fight outside.
I hope to see Vice-admiral Bastille vs. Franky but Franky goes another place :(
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I do hope that during this arc we will see the SH go full out and show their full new capabilities. Most I am excited to see Zorros fight
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Story
Wrong in so many ways but I'll get to you once I get home that is If you still alive lol
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Fair, and I agree, though Ace gave up somehow on his independence.
It's a bit far reaching but Ace died because he was not independent if you understand what I mean.
It's easier to protect someone/something from the top than from the bottom/middle because you can choose what you can "sacrifice", even yourself, instead of putting the burden on others.
It comes to my mind Zoro's speech when Usopp left about the duty of a captain and the trust of its crew.
Still interesting convo you put up there :)i think i understand what you mean, to be independent he needed top power, but not top title like pirate king or yonko, thats what i think.
@Monkey:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ambition
I'm using 4, you're using 2.
ok, i kind of didnt understand what you meant before in that haki discussion, thats why i asked
I've been looking for a raw but I couldn't find it but in this page, what Garp said the anime translated as "He was born with it as I thought" while this translation said "I knew you had it in you" so I'm not sure what to think of it but some people such as Luffy might be born with it while others have to develop their desires to be the greatest person in the world, we have at least two people who were born with Observation Haki, so you can actually be born with Haki or awake it through training (Observation and Armament), the same happens with real life, you're born with it or you don't but you always have the opportunity to achieve it trough hard work
[hide][qimg]http://i25.mangapanda.com/one-piece/570/one-piece-1137331.jpg[/qimg][/hide]
and here is yibis translation in anime: "so he did inherit it , after all"
confusing :Sback to topic
so i think Law crew at zou? will have important role (help them escape the marine after beating doffy or something).
thats what im expecting, or they are doing something important concerning next steps. and im interested what kind of place zou might be
DD is enjoying the show , instead of a death battle with law, a admiral is doing the job in few minutes… He must be laughing to dead, why law even said that he is allied to luffy? Is this guy stupid or out of his mind
because than he would have to fight with doflamingo in dressrosa, they would get in strawhats way, i think he is in better situation now, and i think fujitora would somehow get in strawhats' way anyway. i dont understand it 100% either
Obviously nothing is conclusive here but there is enough evidence to show that there is a chance Vergo is high tier VA.
Or there is option C, and I am looking way too much into a single page.
what about middle tier? ^^
but its definitely whoever wasn't at the Mera mera fruit meeting.
hearts seat was for law
Chinjou said there are a lot of Conqueror's Haki users. I guess all "Don" families use it. Don Chinjao family, Don Quixote family, etc. Also, I guess there are 13 Don family. (legend of 13 family, who rules Usa or The World. Oda likes and uses legends like this.)
its not even don quixote. its donquixote.
I think there is a bug here. People forget who's become a toy. Nami and the others became toys. http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-715-page-8.html And Law says that he calls Nami. Nami must be forgotten. (?)
they werent turned into toys
Law eject his sword but neither Fujitora nor Doflamingo is sliced. Plus, there is blood on Law's face. It means Law is in trouble.
I know Law will be fine no matter what since he's a friend of, Luffy's but he's in a terrible situation right about now.
I've been thinking that he might end up being captured.
they are strong, very strong, they wont go down like vergo.
and finally someone said this:why i think that doflamingo makes a blunder, because we see law as a strategist so i think he will somehow deal with current situation.(yes law not looking great, but on OP bleeding and getting thrown all over the place not means he will lose).
law's main strength is that he plans everything, even his fruit isnt about physical power but more about using it correctly, with mind, so its not like he had any chance of winning physical fight in the first place but he will come up with some good strategy, if he hasnt already
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@dwo:
I do hope that during this arc we will see the SH go full out and show their full new capabilities. Most I am excited to see Zorros fight
There are tons of enemys on Dressrosa. Pretty sure you won't get dissapointed.
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"They werent turned into toys" : Acceptable.
"its not even don quixote. its donquixote." : Meaningless.Thanks "marry bonney"
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When that dwarf tells Leo near the end of the chapter that members of the Donquixote Family have started to move from the palace to the coliseum I'm guessing that's referring to the one's we haven't seen for a while like Baby 5, Buffalo, Trebol, Steampunk and the little girl
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Meaningless.
maybe but
anyway after you do this
I haven't read your messages. There are a few things I don't understand. I'll read 23 pages and I'll try to fix these parts.
you will understand about this
Chinjou said there are a lot of Conqueror's Haki users. I guess all "Don" families use it.
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Last thing i am gonna say about this specific topic:
I disagree with MK and still think that CoC specifically is an ability that you either have when born or not (not genetics though) and personally, i don´t think it contradicts Oda´s message either. Generally, Oda tries to convey a rather idealistic message, namely that pure conviction, a superior willpower and confidence in yourself, in your beliefs and your dreams can figuratively, and in the manga itself, literally move mountains.
Pretty much the entire SHs is used as medium to underline this point by putting them in seemingly hopeless situations and letting them get out without casualties in the end, which of course takes away some of the unpredictablity but is supposed to emphasize that said message.
Now, giving people an ability that is not acquired by those positive qualities but has been given you by birthright may contradict the theme at first but if we take the people who have been confirmed to have it into consideration, i think that picture changes a little.
I mean we have Chinjao whose willpower and ambition was not high enough to process his trauma received from Garp, and now he is just a bitter and sad old man. We have Boa whose trauma changed her entire personality, thus her willpower also was not high enough, only with Luffy´s influence she was able to regain her confidence.
And then we have the antagonist DD who is clearly gonna be beaten this arc, not because of lacking strength but because of inferior conviction compared to Luffy.
Basically, Oda makes no secret that some are born luckier than others (in this context CoC) but in the end, it still is up to your willpower and conviction to achieve your goals. We will have characters without CoC who will have achieved much more than characters with CoC which basically proves my point.
If someone wants to refute this, please do so. -
I disagree. I think COC is clearly something that the most ambitious and willful in the world can use. Those who not only have those ambitions, but have used their will to honestly work(this is important) towards them. It's the purest and most potent form of willpower, and the people who have been able to use it so far in the story have demonstrated that. Of all the people we know who can use it: Hancock, Chinjao, Doflamingo, Newgate, Luffy, Ace, Shanks, Rayleigh, all of them are either royalty (Dark King) or extremely powerful, extremely willful folks who aimed to be pirate king or something of that nature. (best dad ever)
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You ignore the most significant part, there are basically people more ambitious and who have stronger willpower in the story who don´t have CoC which results in consistency issues if your definition was true. I am quoting this for the second time:
Your definition of CoC Monkey raises a question though, at least for me, namely how is the power of CoC obtained?
Let´s say it is not dormant ability by birthright but purely a manifestation of your superior ambition, spirit and willpower. How is that ambition developed though?
Is it through particular experiences, thorugh exterior influences or is it something with which you are born in the first place.
Furthermore, doesn´t that reveal consistency issues considering that there are people we have seen who are probably more ambitious and have more willpower (i really did not want to use this example but i think Zoro and Boa are a good one, the former intends to be the best in his particular field while Boa is content with her small kingdom).Continuing the real life comparison, how is that charisma of huge businessman, politicians and so forth developed? Is it something they are born with it in the first place and learned to utilize it with their personal growth or is it something that has developed with special and peculiar experiences?
Another message of the story is that you should never lose hope, your courage to dream and your childish side which requires an immense willpower in a world in which cruel things can happen. The war arc and the loss of Ace was not supposed to make Luffy change or more mature, it was supposed to show that with the superior willpower, you can overcome traumas and sad events without changing.
People like Boa and Chinjao just did not have that kind of willpower, they broke because of their past events. Ace was also partly not strong enough to overcome that, at least not until the last moments of his life.
And what has royalty to do with CoC? It just shows that all of them were ambitious at one point but that´s not exclusive for CoC users, having the dream and goal to become the strongest swordsman in the world for example is equal or even superior in terms of ambition compared to Chinjao Boa.
On the other hand, we know that Whitebeard had no interest in becoming PK, that Rayleigh was a lazy vagabond and that Hancock has no more ambitions after becoming queen. -
Law's so cool that he can call Nami while he's rolling away from a meteor strike.
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About the CoC…but it's the same for every kind of peculiar thing/power/etc...
A good narrator sets rules on his fiction but leaves some loopholes around which he can build unexpected climaxes.
The more the rule is tight and the loophole is well hidden, the greater the effect on the reader.We don't even know what's the TRUE rule behind the CoC, but it will surely have a loophole, just like the Devil's Fruit rule of one fruit per human has a loophole exploited by BB that has yet to be revealed.
So "CoC could be inherited by birth BUT" or "CoC is forged through experience BUT"
Oda will always leave a "BUT" around. -
i think that shakky has something to do with chinjoa
or more like she seems to be the main reason behind the revenge and treasure thing -
About the CoC…but it's the same for every kind of peculiar thing/power/etc...
A good narrator sets rules on his fiction but leaves some loopholes around which he can build unexpected climaxes.
The more the rule is tight and the loophole is well hidden, the greater the effect on the reader.We don't even know what's the TRUE rule behind the CoC, but it will surely have a loophole, just like the Devil's Fruit rule of one fruit per human has a loophole exploited by BB that has yet to be revealed.
So "CoC could be inherited by birth BUT" or "CoC is forged through experience BUT"
Oda will always leave a "BUT" around.Haki is not a greatly written magic.
Armament haki in its most basic uses (striking DF users + more power) is simple and elegant, but its other applications are just as bullshit foils to DF powers, like surviving in Law's 'Room'. It's such an unquantifiable ability that it isn't interesting.
Observation haki is also not at all interesting, except when it as exclusive to the villains and the main characters had to work around it (I'm talking here about Mantra on Skypeia).
Conqueror haki is the worst of the lot. It's great as a symbol of the 'will', 'charisma' or 'destiny' of that character - the fact that it was so rare and we had thus far only seen it in Luffy, Hancock, Ace, Whitebeard, Shanks, Rayliegh and Doflamingo made Chinjao seem more impressive just by having it. But as a power, all it does so far is … KO fodder. Yay? Unless Oda is going to demonstrate something actually interesting when to conquerors collide with Luffy and Chinjao + then Luffy and Doflamingo, Conqueror haki will remain just a little nod to the characteristic strength of that character.
...
That kind of turned into a rant.
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@zeff:
i think that shakky has something to do with chinjoa
or more like she seems to be the main reason behind the revenge and treasure thingyeah, as soon as I read chinjao mentioning Rayleigh, I somehow had Shakky in my mind.. Dont know why. Maybe she is her daughter lol
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The marines said that losers should be coming out of the Colosseum right? Maybe the losers are being carted to the factory to be turned into toys, or worse.
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CoA:
- Luffy was able to create an explosion somehow when he used Red Hawk. (IIRC, Vergo did the same thing)
- increase attack power.
- Touch Logias.
- Defense(Stopped Shinokuni from entering Luffy's skin, harden your body, Haki barrier, can prevent Law from cutting you up with his ability, but he can counter, etc)
- I also think Sanji's Diamble Jambe is also because of CoA. At first it was because of friction, but after what he's shown after the TS, I'm starting to believe it's because of CoA.
CoO:
- To sense enemies
- Predict movements. I believe Shirley's fortune telling abilities is a type of CoO or advanced version of it.
- Hear the Voices of All Things.(I also think this is an advance version of CoO)
CoC:
- Knock out others.
- Tame beasts.
- This is just a guess, but I really think Zoro's Asura is because of CoC. Same with Hell Memories.
Haki might be plain at the moment, but I'm pretty sure Oda will eventually expand it.
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@•Ace•:
CoA:
- Luffy was able to create an explosion somehow when he used Red Hawk. (IIRC, Vergo did the same thing)
- increase attack power.
- Touch Logias.
- Defense(Stopped Shinokuni from entering Luffy's skin, harden your body, Haki barrier, can prevent Law from cutting you up with his ability, but he can counter, etc)
- I also think Sanji's Hell Memories is also because of CoA
CoO:
- To sense enemies
- Predict movements. I believe Shirley's fortune telling abilities is a type of CoO or advanced version of it.
- Hear the Voices of All Things.(I also think this is an advance version of CoO)
CoC:
- Knock out others.
- Tame beasts.
- This is just a guess, but I really think Zoro's Asura is because of CoC.
Haki might be plain at the moment, but I'm pretty sure Oda will eventually expand it.
In summary coc is useless and coo and coa are more important
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I thought that Oda just told you guys that Conqueror ain't as useless or fodder cleaner as you think
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In summary coc is useless and coo and coa are more important
I wouldn't say useless, but CURRENTLY, CoA and CoO are more useful than CoC. CoC is important, but we'll just have to wait and see what Oda does with it.
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Tactically speaking, wouldn't you want some of the stronger VAs at different New World locations? That way if a situation arises, anywhere, you always have someone there that is strong enough to take care of it and near at all times. It makes sense to keep your Admirals at the main HQ in case of an attack but the other strong members of the marine, why wouldn't you have some of them stationed all over New World if it was possible?
Seeing as how the marines don't actually control the new world i'd imagine that they don't want to stretch their forces anymore than neccesarry
As I said before, he looked pretty good against both Sanji and Smoker, that's not a bad feat. Obviously nothing is conclusive here but there is enough evidence to show that there is a chance Vergo is high tier VA. Then again he did get humiliated by Law, so now the discussion is more in line of is the difference between Admiral and VA massive or simply he isn't as strong as the really high tier VAs despite owning another VA and breaking Sanji's bone (if I remember correctly, could be wrong).
Smoker wasn't really fighting back though. I mean Vergo even noted that he was acting super weird
As for Law one-shotting him i think there's one point people forget. Law's weakness seems to be his lack of stamina, and to deal with Vergo he had to do a bigger attack than we've ever seen him do.
I can't imagine that that did not drain him.
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@•Ace•:
I wouldn't say useless, but CURRENTLY, CoA and CoO are more useful than CoC. CoC is important, but we'll just have to wait and see what Oda does with it.
CoC will sure get another feature later in the story, when the real powerhouses clash against each other…we saw a bit when the sky split during Shanks and WBs confrontation.
To get a stronger CoC you also have to get better CoO and CoA, so it`s naturally that we see now more from those two types. -
I thought that Oda just told you guys that Conqueror ain't as useless or fodder cleaner as you think
I always thought that the Fodder killer part of CoC is just a desired side effect. Like when Luffy and Don clashed (which i still like to call a fist bump) CoC was more like bursting out of both accidentally rather than intentional attack. I honestly think that CoC has yet to reveal it's proper use and meaning.
Moreover, on the Haki debate on general i'd like to add some things:
-As MonkeyKing said Everyone are able to achieve it with enough ambition in theory. In practice you are also needed to have the courage and personally i think that sometimes the circumstances are also important. (circumstances that lead to the desire of strengthening the motivation in an almost traumatic way)
-As was Displayed in PK, CoA isn't defeat-proof. (Law vs Vergo)
-CoO might give you the mantra to see the attacks, but you also need to be somewhat strong enough and well trained to dodge and put up a fight. This isn't a mere magic ability that is just a winning Egyptian god card in the fight. (that YuGiOh reference)I've been thinking lately, what if Doflamingo puts something special in his artificial DF? (as hinted with momonosuke at PK) this would take "Puppet Mater" to a whole new level. (i know it's an old topic but still interesting)
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@•Ace•:
CoC:
- This is just a guess, but I really think Zoro's Asura is because of CoC.
I really think there's something else to Zoro's attacks, never thought about CoC though.
But I don't feel like Oda is ever going to explain Asura. -
This isn't a haki discussion thread.
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I don't know if someone figured out it before, I just found a theory about Chinjao from Tumblr . It makes sense to me .
Ivankov once said there was a prisoner , who possesses "digging" ability, created lv5.5 in Impel Down and the chapter currently reveals the epithet of Chinjao is "Drill", so maybe Chinjao used to be a prisoner being arrested in ID and then he escaped from it thanks to Luffy's struggle . He is also the person whom Ivankov mentioned .
I mean epithet "Drill" seems to be associate with "digging" alility . What do you guys think of this theory ?!
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Mangarule's chapter is already available?
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I don't know if someone figured out it before, I just found a theory about Chinjao from Tumblr . It makes sense to me .
Ivankov once said there was a prisoner , who possesses "digging" ability, created lv5.5 in Impel Down and the chapter currently reveals the epithet of Chinjao is "Drill", so maybe Chinjao used to be a prisoner being arrested in ID and then he escaped from it thanks to Luffy's struggle . He is also the person whom Ivankov mentioned .
I mean epithet "Drill" seems to be associate with "digging" alility . What do you guys think of this theory ?! http://24.media.tumblr.com/0c292687b397bfd86797519d1588d45f/tumblr_mr6f0jwVl91qkusc2o1_500.png
If he were a prisoner, Jean Ango would have said something about him too
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Last thing i am gonna say about this specific topic:
I disagree with MK and still think that CoC specifically is an ability that you either have when born or not (not genetics though) and personally, i don´t think it contradicts Oda´s message either. Generally, Oda tries to convey a rather idealistic message, namely that pure conviction, a superior willpower and confidence in yourself, in your beliefs and your dreams can figuratively, and in the manga itself, literally move mountains.
Pretty much the entire SHs is used as medium to underline this point by putting them in seemingly hopeless situations and letting them get out without casualties in the end, which of course takes away some of the unpredictablity but is supposed to emphasize that said message.
Now, giving people an ability that is not acquired by those positive qualities but has been given you by birthright may contradict the theme at first but if we take the people who have been confirmed to have it into consideration, i think that picture changes a little.
I mean we have Chinjao whose willpower and ambition was not high enough to process his trauma received from Garp, and now he is just a bitter and sad old man. We have Boa whose trauma changed her entire personality, thus her willpower also was not high enough, only with Luffy´s influence she was able to regain her confidence.
And then we have the antagonist DD who is clearly gonna be beaten this arc, not because of lacking strength but because of inferior conviction compared to Luffy.
Basically, Oda makes no secret that some are born luckier than others (in this context CoC) but in the end, it still is up to your willpower and conviction to achieve your goals. We will have characters without CoC who will have achieved much more than characters with CoC which basically proves my point.
If someone wants to refute this, please do so.You ignore the most significant part, there are basically people more ambitious and who have stronger willpower in the story who don´t have CoC which results in consistency issues if your definition was true. I am quoting this for the second time:
Another message of the story is that you should never lose hope, your courage to dream and your childish side which requires an immense willpower in a world in which cruel things can happen. The war arc and the loss of Ace was not supposed to make Luffy change or more mature, it was supposed to show that with the superior willpower, you can overcome traumas and sad events without changing.
People like Boa and Chinjao just did not have that kind of willpower, they broke because of their past events. Ace was also partly not strong enough to overcome that, at least not until the last moments of his life.
And what has royalty to do with CoC? It just shows that all of them were ambitious at one point but that´s not exclusive for CoC users, having the dream and goal to become the strongest swordsman in the world for example is equal or even superior in terms of ambition compared to Chinjao Boa.
On the other hand, we know that Whitebeard had no interest in becoming PK, that Rayleigh was a lazy vagabond and that Hancock has no more ambitions after becoming queen.16 characters of great posting.
CoC still needs further explaination… and is why I indicated it as one of the mysteries Roger may have learned about in his quest to One Piece.
Personally I view CoC as this:
Only a select number of ppl are BORN with it… I won't go as far as to say its genetic but more along the lines as a random occurrence or anomaly. I would even say that every could have CoC... BUT only a select few have the inherent ability to use it outwardly to such a degree to be able to dominate the WILL of others. <–---- I think this really sums up my take on CoC as it has been presented so far in the series.
Then with those that have it the CoC cannot be directly trained to get stronger…. only by training oneself and their WILL can the strengths of their CoC increase. So CoC is uniquely specially in some many ways when compared to the other Colors of Haki.
But Miyamoto Mussashi I agree alot with both of your posts.
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I get the feeling this post was responding to mine, so I'll treat it as if it were.
@•Ace•:
CoA:
- Luffy was able to create an explosion somehow when he used Red Hawk. (IIRC, Vergo did the same thing)
- increase attack power.
- Touch Logias.
- Defense(Stopped Shinokuni from entering Luffy's skin, harden your body, Haki barrier, can prevent Law from cutting you up with his ability, but he can counter, etc)
- I also think Sanji's Diamble Jambe is also because of CoA. At first it was because of friction, but after what he's shown after the TS, I'm starting to believe it's because of CoA.
The first is merely flashy rather than an actually interesting ability.
The second and fourth are basically unquantifiable. Oda could write someone to be able to deliver a powerful blow or shield with one just by being superhumanly awesome, or he could do it with Haki. It's no great wondrous work of the system.
The third was alwas the main point of this - it nerfs logias, and some paramecias.
The thing about Law's power, as I mentioned in my previous post, is so unquantifiable it may as well not be there. It's just a random "this guy's strong enough to fight Law; this guy isn't." Not to mention the actual defense it gives you is again totally unquantifiable. Smoker seemed to have strong enough Haki to fight with Law, but Law could still cut his heart out in the end. In that fight, haki was not ACTUALLY important.
The last point you make is mere speculation, and what does it show? We were willing to buy Sanji could do that without magical powers (Haki), so what difference does it make if he can? The power's use and results will be exactly the same. It doesn't make Haki more interesting to, uh, anything.CoO:
- To sense enemies
- Predict movements. I believe Shirley's fortune telling abilities is a type of CoO or advanced version of it.
- Hear the Voices of All Things.(I also think this is an advance version of CoO)
Again the last is just speculation so I'll leave it.
Predicting movement doesn't actually make for interesting stuff anymore. Sure, we see a lot of Luffy casually dodging stuff whereas before maybe he'd get hit, or else he'd frantically dodge as the attacks came flying. It was interesting in Skypeia because the SHs had to work out ways to overcome the fact that their opponents could easily predict their movements. If any enemy does that now to the non-haki using SHs, it will basically be a repeat. If any of the 'monster trio' do that to an enemy (as they often do to fodder) it isn't really interesting it's just decimating the enemy.
The sensing enemies aspect does actually have the potential to be used well in the future.
CoC:
- Knock out others.
- Tame beasts.
- This is just a guess, but I really think Zoro's Asura is because of CoC. Same with Hell Memories.
On the last bullet point, see what I said about Sanji's Diable Jambe and CoA/
And the others? Come on, they don't make for interesting Haki, they just look cool. Oooh, Luffy knocked out 50,000 with CoC~ Ohhhhh, Chinjao and Luffy's CoC knocked out some tourney fodder~ That's it.
As you summed up, Haki is NOT interesting right now. It basically functions as a logia (etc) foil, and CoC separates the major players.
Except for the expectation that CoC clashing might produce an interesting result, the most interesting thing about Haki in these arcs is that it implies that someone with CoA will go up against any Logia enemy.
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I thought that Oda just told you guys that Conqueror ain't as useless or fodder cleaner as you think
LOL, I thought so too…. since it was literally just shown to us in this chapter. :getlost:
It seems to be a means to amplify the power/will of a user in battle..... with "fodder" control being a nice bonus. Essentially it's reminiscent of DBZ and the power levels. Some of hte character power levels were so enormous, it would literally cripple (emotionally and physically) weaker beings.
And before some get upset with me for making a DBZ reference, I think Oda-san would be okay with it :)
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I cannot wait for the inevitable scene where Usopp launches dwarves out of his kabuto for epic results.
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I guess the toys being humans thing explains the earlier interaction between the Toy Soldier and Rebecca a couple chapters back. But if that was the case how come Rebecca didn't forget who the Toy Soldier was if he was her boyfriend? :wassat:
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well, maybe she doesn't know that he is that particular person? maybe it's the same as the scene with wanpoco, where he plays with his family just to be near them. he is friends with rebecca and recognizes her, but she doesn't know he's her boyfriend/father/whatever and he became friends with her wothout telling her the truth. her crying is just due to the fact that she's missing her beloved ones and entered the tournament to revenge/save them. or maybe he told her and she believes him, despite the fact that she can't remember. or it's something like "the bond between them is extraordinary strong and a df ability can't break it" or something along those lines.
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I get the feeling this post was responding to mine, so I'll treat it as if it were.
The first is merely flashy rather than an actually interesting ability.
The second and fourth are basically unquantifiable. Oda could write someone to be able to deliver a powerful blow or shield with one just by being superhumanly awesome, or he could do it with Haki. It's no great wondrous work of the system.
The third was alwas the main point of this - it nerfs logias, and some paramecias.
The thing about Law's power, as I mentioned in my previous post, is so unquantifiable it may as well not be there. It's just a random "this guy's strong enough to fight Law; this guy isn't." Not to mention the actual defense it gives you is again totally unquantifiable. Smoker seemed to have strong enough Haki to fight with Law, but Law could still cut his heart out in the end. In that fight, haki was not ACTUALLY important.
The last point you make is mere speculation, and what does it show? We were willing to buy Sanji could do that without magical powers (Haki), so what difference does it make if he can? The power's use and results will be exactly the same. It doesn't make Haki more interesting to, uh, anything.Again the last is just speculation so I'll leave it.
Predicting movement doesn't actually make for interesting stuff anymore. Sure, we see a lot of Luffy casually dodging stuff whereas before maybe he'd get hit, or else he'd frantically dodge as the attacks came flying. It was interesting in Skypeia because the SHs had to work out ways to overcome the fact that their opponents could easily predict their movements. If any enemy does that now to the non-haki using SHs, it will basically be a repeat. If any of the 'monster trio' do that to an enemy (as they often do to fodder) it isn't really interesting it's just decimating the enemy.
The sensing enemies aspect does actually have the potential to be used well in the future.
On the last bullet point, see what I said about Sanji's Diable Jambe and CoA/
And the others? Come on, they don't make for interesting Haki, they just look cool. Oooh, Luffy knocked out 50,000 with CoC~ Ohhhhh, Chinjao and Luffy's CoC knocked out some tourney fodder~ That's it.
As you summed up, Haki is NOT interesting right now. It basically functions as a logia (etc) foil, and CoC separates the major players.
Expect or the expectation that CoC clashing might produce an interesting result, the most interesting thing about Haki in these arcs is that it implies that someone with CoA will go up against any Logia enemy.
I was just listing the things Haki has done.
What Im really interested in is the steps to gain control of the power and why it takes so long just to learn the basics. I want to know more about the discovery, and its other features. I'm also interested about how Haki is able to counter DF's. I find these things really intriguing. I hope Oda explains Haki in detail just like how he's going to explain the DF's in detail. -
I guess the toys being humans thing explains the earlier interaction between the Toy Soldier and Rebecca a couple chapters back. But if that was the case how come Rebecca didn't forget who the Toy Soldier was if he was her boyfriend? :wassat:
maybe he tell him the truth …and that's why she hate DD and want to take him down by getting the mera mera no mi on colesseum
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Law should be able to win against Fuji, but I don't know how well that power works vs unseen strings of death…
Anyone already point out that his hair is blue in the colorspread? Did working with the Strawhats start to turn him gray already?--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I really think there's something else to Zoro's attacks, never thought about CoC though.
But I don't feel like Oda is ever going to explain Asura.I thought it was from the demon sword he's had since that shop he got it from for free (otherwise we haven't seen an effect from it)