well, if it's himself you'd expect him to reference the last bounty he's aware of, which'd be 300mil, right?
400 million. Hody showed him.
I think in order to redeem the nosebleed gag, it has to be Sanji.
Chapter 645: "Death Is Also Revenge"
-
-
Not trying to argue the translation, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on the matter of context. In the context of Hodi questioning Luffy's toughness and endurance, anyone should and would assume Luffy is referring to himself when he immediately follows the question with, "tougher than 100 million." I trust your translations and all, so again I am not arguing the translation itself, however your view on the context is wrong… at least in English. That said, you shouldn't be baffled that people are confused about this and questioning it on an English forum.
Edit: to further the point about context, you might also consider the context of the situation, and not just the dialog itself. You suggested Luffy was commenting on Hodi's persistence, getting up after all of these attacks, yet pages before Hodi's comment, Luffy already sees Hodi getting up and begins his Gear 3rd attack. To comment about Hodi's toughness that long after he begins another attack on Hodi is just silly… not to mention his comment isn't made until Hodi's question comes up.
Hell with this, this is going in circles.
If you don't believe me, go ask ANY other native Japanese. Or on 2ch.
There is not a single doubt at all that he is talking about himself.
It's not even an interpretation issue.
IN JAPANESE it makes not lick of a sense otherwise.I don't think non-natives realise the suttle implication of "wa" and "dana".
-
So Aohige, why can't you be One Piece king? You or Greg or Stephen…
-
If Greg participated I think we're all screwed, Robby.
-
Oda´s message in this week SJ ToC maybe is interesting ^^
It would be more interesting if I know what it said!
cough Aohige cough
-
Yeah then we can get back to established villains with cliche purposes! Don't you just love the uneducated fanbase?
Are you implying an arc after a timeskip involving racism which isn't even as good as all the other times they've addressed the issue is geared to the "educated" fanbase cuz OP is about education? I see you trying to use sarcasm here but the attempt to insult is meaningless cuz you're simply ignoring my opinion that this arc just isn't that good. They're not going to solve the problem of racism in this manga, if they did it'd be a joke.
-
If you don't believe me, go ask ANY OTHER native Japanese. Or on 2ch. There is not a single doubt at all that he is talking about himself. It's not even an interpretation issue. IN JAPANESE it makes not lick of a sense otherwise. I don't think non-natives realize the subtle implication of "wa" and "dana".
Right, but I said I'm not arguing the translation. You understand that the context [situation and dialog] implies he is talking about himself, right? Yes, yes, I understand the text IN JAPANESE apparently only makes sense if he is talking about Hodi, but the situation and dialog suggest the opposite. Isn't it more probable Oda simply fumbled on the grammar?
IN JAPANESE it makes not lick of a sense otherwise.
So let me clarify what I was saying in my other post. Here's a general play-by-play of what happened: Luffy attacks Hodi, Hodi gets up, Luffy sees Hodi get up, Luffy jumps to attack Hodi again saying "Gear 3rd", Hodi comments Luffy must be hurting, emphasis is given to Luffy's wound, Luffy responds by talking about toughness. You say in Japanese it makes no sense otherwise, but looking at the situation… it would make no sense for Luffy to comment on Hodi's durability. The fact alone that Oda wrote into the situation Hodi commenting on Luffy's durability should make it clear who the subject of Luffy's response is. I'm willing to accept the opposite, that Oda did a poor job of preparing three pages of art rather than making one tiny mistake on a single speech bubble, but I'd still find it pointless, given Luffy already emphasized the point twice at the beginning. No need to say it again. Hopefully you understand my point?
-
Sheesh,so much argument over that one line.In a few months,we'll see what shounen jump alpha translates it in an English context.That is if we still care by that time…
-
@Baou:
Sheesh,so much argument over that one line.In a few months,we'll see what shounen jump alpha translates it in an English context.That is if we still care by that time…
This is way more interesting than any "xyz for nakama" comments though, or most of the others. Plus, shonen jump alpha's translation is not relevant in the slightest in this debate..
-
I'm not japanese, but I do think that it makessome sense the other way around.
I mean. Hodi is saying Luffy should be in pain from his bite. What would be the sense of him going: "Your endurance is better than +100.000.000 heads."
Its like a dialog:
A to B:"I put poison in your food, you should be dying"
B to A:"Your endurance to poison is over 9000, actually."Or is it with the meaning:
"My haki punches aren't that weak either, your endurance is surely better than that of an 100.000.000 head" ?If you are so sure its referring to Hodi, I believe you. But in context it makes sense both ways.
-
FFS.
He's not REPLYING to Hody, he's basically sighing and saying to himself "sheesh, this guy tanks like a supernova".
[rage]
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DEBATE IN THIS.
IT'S 100% CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY WHAT IT WAS SAID.You people wanna ignore what the original line says, and decide what makes sense in YOUR head, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS?
[/rage]To hell with this crap, I'm out of here.
I you people refuse to listen to reason, and REFUSE to go find another Japanese One Piece reader, then fuck it.
Have it your way.
-
FFS.
He's not REPLYING to Hody, he's basically sighing and saying to himself "sheesh, this guy tanks like a supernova".
[rage]
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DEBATE IN THIS.
IT'S 100% CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY WHAT IT WAS SAID.You people wanna ignore what the original line says, and decide what makes sense in YOUR head, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS?
[/rage]Fuck this shit, I'm out of here.
I you people refuse to listen to reason, and REFUSE to go find another Japanese One Piece reader, then fuck it.
Have it your way.
Don't think that closing of the "rage" tag worked. But I believe you.
hug
-
Which is stupid on itself since Supernovae pre TS are nowhere close to Hodi's current tankiness. This is probably the only reason anyone even wants to question it.
However i think that Luffy saying it to himself is even more retarded in that type of context.
-
Luffy always thinks aloud,so he can just be talking to himself about Hody's strength,like he did after Luffy wailed on him with haki in the plaza.
-
Which is stupid on itself since Supernovae pre TS are nowhere close to Hodi's current tankiness. This is probably the only reason anyone even wants to question it.
However i think that Luffy saying it to himself is even more retarded in that type of context.
So head to 2ch or wherever, and question another Japanese.
I've had it with this bullshit.
-
I'm not arguing with you. I agree with you. I'm just saying that's the only reason anyone questions it. I personally don't and I obviously rely on your translations for facts. However, Oda doesn't always make sense and it has nothing to do with your trans.
I think I should add probably on behalf of everyone here that we are very appreciative of what you do.
-
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DEBATE IN THIS. IT'S 100% CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY WHAT IT WAS SAID. You people wanna ignore what the original line says, and decide what makes sense in YOUR head, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS? I you people refuse to listen to reason, and REFUSE to go find another Japanese One Piece reader, then fuck it.
But I'm not arguing the translation…
-
So head to 2ch or wherever, and question another Japanese.
I've had it with this bullshit.
You are the one full of bullshit right now. Everybody agrees that you're right, and nobody was arguing directly AGAINST the translation ( as sated by brennan.exe several times). In fact, he just logically gave a supporting argument for the contextual confusion and reasoning behind those that do not understand japanese and relied on situational clues and english translations in order to reach a conclusion. I think he was trying to explain to you how people were able to conclude a different meaning somewhat logically, because you acted as though the others were fluent japanese speakers/readers and were idiots for not realizing the truth behind the text.
Calm down a bit, I'm pretty sure everybody on this forum really appreciates you.
-
FFS.
He's not REPLYING to Hody, he's basically sighing and saying to himself "sheesh, this guy tanks like a supernova".
[rage]
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DEBATE IN THIS.
IT'S 100% CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY WHAT IT WAS SAID.You people wanna ignore what the original line says, and decide what makes sense in YOUR head, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS?
[/rage]To hell with this crap, I'm out of here.
I you people refuse to listen to reason, and REFUSE to go find another Japanese One Piece reader, then fuck it.
Have it your way.
Now now, calm down, I haven't seen anyone here arguing with the translation! =(
I don't question it at all, I believe you, so stop the rage, Aohige-sama.
But are you that stubborn that you cannot admit it makes contextual sense? And again, not trying to say this is how we should read it, because it's not, but simply explaining where the confusion came from in the first place - that's all! No offense, you are too proud.. But we don't doubt you! Don't be mad. hugEverybody agrees that you're right, and nobody was arguing directly AGAINST the translation (as sated by brennen.exe several times). In fact, he just logically gave a supporting argument for the contextual confusion and reasoning behind those that do not understand japanese and relied on situational clues and english translations in order to reach a conclusion. I think he was trying to explain to you how people were able to conclude a different meaning somewhat logically, because you acted as though the others were fluent japanese speakers/readers and were idiots for not realizing the truth behind the text.
Calm down a bit, I'm pretty sure everybody on this forum really appreciates you.
What this person said. Zenzic.
-
It would be more interesting if I know what it said!
cough Aohige cough
Nothing much this time. He's pretty excited about the latest in the anime and loves the new theme opening. Yes, One Piece is going on strong as usual.
Here, you must have missed it because of the ongoing discussion over a not-so-confusing panel.
So head to 2ch or wherever, and question another Japanese.
I've had it with this bullshit.
I don't mean any snark, but most people on these forums can't ask people on a Japanese forum, since they wouldn't know which directories to follow. In any case, I hope the "argument" is settled. (-w- し)
-
I guess this just goes to show how important it is to sometimes take certain liberties with translations and maybe localise them a bit. (I know you can't ask for too much when the scanlators at Mangastream do such a quick job, just pointing it out.) First we had people being unsure about Luffy's line because the phrasing sounds less natural in English, now it's about context… doesn't it make sense that Luffy's commenting to himself how tough Hody must be to keep taking hits like that and still trash talk to his enemy? "Sheesh, this guy tanks like a supernova" actually sounds like pretty good phrasing for making that clear. Japanese can be a very subtle language and I'm grateful Aohige is willing to clear up the finer points for us week after week.
-
FFS.
He's not REPLYING to Hody, he's basically sighing and saying to himself "sheesh, this guy tanks like a supernova".
[rage]
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DEBATE IN THIS.
IT'S 100% CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY WHAT IT WAS SAID.You people wanna ignore what the original line says, and decide what makes sense in YOUR head, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS?
[/rage]To hell with this crap, I'm out of here.
I you people refuse to listen to reason, and REFUSE to go find another Japanese One Piece reader, then fuck it.
Have it your way.
So head to 2ch or wherever, and question another Japanese.
I've had it with this bullshit.
You're too focused on taking this a personal attack when none of the problems brennen had anything to do with the translation. The way the art presents that whole situation with Luffy and Hody is what he's talking about which makes the lines contained in those panels make no sense, and what honestly seems to be case anyway.
So calm the hell down Aohige, and the rest of you stop pampering him.
-
FFS.
He's not REPLYING to Hody, he's basically sighing and saying to himself "sheesh, this guy tanks like a supernova".
[rage]
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DEBATE IN THIS.
IT'S 100% CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY WHAT IT WAS SAID.You people wanna ignore what the original line says, and decide what makes sense in YOUR head, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT FUCKING SAYS?
[/rage]To hell with this crap, I'm out of here.
I you people refuse to listen to reason, and REFUSE to go find another Japanese One Piece reader, then fuck it.
Have it your way.
I totally agree with you. I remember learning "desunee" from Japanese class (sorry for not using hiragana), which is a confirmatory tense (as in "
I get it!") in formal speech, so I thought of "dana" as an informal style with the exact same meaning.Edit: more like "now I see". So a better feeling from what Luffy says would be "Damn this mothafu**a strong!"
-
Does it really matter? Is there any real reason to assume Oda made a grammar mistake and not just goofed up his writing? I mean, Oda isn't perfect, and there's no point assuming Oda meant something else unless he gives us evidence of it in the volume when it comes out
-
Does it really matter? Is there any real reason to assume Oda made a grammar mistake and not just goofed up his writing? I mean, Oda isn't perfect, and there's no point assuming Oda meant something else unless he gives us evidence of it in the volume when it comes out
Aohige infers, from his defense of his own translation and contextual meaning, that Oda made no error. People are confused simply because ethnic style in speech can be lost in translation, and be impossible to truly translate in verbal language. However, tonality and non-verbal cues are universal, so I suggest dropping this argument and watching this scene in the anime when it comes out.
-
I'm glad to see even the 100,000 fishman might turn on Hody and his crew.
-
@gotta<3OP:
I'm not japanese, but I do think that it makessome sense the other way around.
I mean. Hodi is saying Luffy should be in pain from his bite. What would be the sense of him going: "Your endurance is better than +100.000.000 heads."
Its like a dialog:
A to B:"I put poison in your food, you should be dying"
B to A:"Your endurance to poison is over 9000, actually."Or is it with the meaning:
"My haki punches aren't that weak either, your endurance is surely better than that of an 100.000.000 head" ?If you are so sure its referring to Hodi, I believe you. But in context it makes sense both ways.
in this topic, i totally agree with Aohige.. i mean, its not make sense if you guys look in this perspective;
A to B:"I put poison in your food, you should be dying"
B to A:"Your endurance to poison is over 9000, actually."i mean, if there is a conversation between Hody and Luffy, but the way I see this, there is no conversation happen in that page.. Hody just bla..bla.. bla.. and Luffy just ignored Hody and talk to himself complaining about how tough Hody is.. remember, just before that page, Luffy hit Hody with Red Hawk, so for me it is logical if Luffy complain about how strong Hody is.. the conclusion is there is nothing wrong in that page.. and it make sense.. in fact i feel really weird about how can people confuse about this…
-
I dont want to sound like a slow derp,but I totally missed what the title to the chapter means,and what Zeo was talking about. Death is also revenge? So he's saying that killing the fodders somehow keeps the hate towards humans alive? But what would be the point if they all die anyway….?
-
@Baou:
I dont want to sound like a slow derp,but I totally missed what the title to the chapter means,and what Zeo was talking about. Death is also revenge? So he's saying that killing the fodders somehow keeps the hate towards humans alive? But what would be the point if they all die anyway….?
My interpretation of it would be that: Zeo was saying that the dead's grudge would not die, so even if they died,their grudge would remain on FI, to which Brook replies saying when a person dies all that's left behind is the body. Sorry if my explanation is vague.
-
Basically he's saying that dying for the cause of revenge is just as good as fighting for revenge.
-
I don't care what anyone says, this arc is LEGENDARY:
-
I always thought that he meant that if they died there, that their deaths will be avenged by future generations of fishman, sort of like how they themselves are taking "Vengence" for the deaths of the previous generation. It makes more sense to me and really hits home that the SH may win the battle, but they can't win the war unless they can convince the children of the righteousness of their actions and the moral failings of the NFP.
-
Basically he's saying that dying for the cause of revenge is just as good as fighting for revenge.
I like how it fits Zeo so perfectly. He likes to think anything he does wrong, he does for a greater good. Before this chapter, it was just funny. But now in a serious context, he's batshit insane. I also like how Brook's puns turn
EPICLEGENDARYAWESOMEREALLY, REALLY COOL. wait "cool" is also overused… -
@Zik:
Are you implying an arc after a timeskip involving racism which isn't even as good as all the other times they've addressed the issue is geared to the "educated" fanbase cuz OP is about education? I see you trying to use sarcasm here but the attempt to insult is meaningless cuz you're simply ignoring my opinion that this arc just isn't that good. They're not going to solve the problem of racism in this manga, if they did it'd be a joke.
And how isn't it as good as all the other times? Tell me one other work where first of all, it isn't the established african american/other minorities and whites, and second, the main antagonist is racist because its been ingrained in him. I, personally, have never seen that before. Theres always some cliche reason involved. Why does everyone get behind this opinion nonsense? I don't get it. The first time someone trys to discuss something, the other guy gets scared and calls opinion. Its like fighting in a boxing match and right when i'm about to punch you, you yell opinion. No, it doesn't work that way. Fight for your opinion, or your just a skeptic spouting nonsense. They clearly aren't going to solve it, nothing can ever be solved….but at least they can try to make it better and even establish heroes ON fishman island that can be regarded as the influences from then on
-
Regarding what Luffy says on Hody (100mil):
1. I agree with Aohige, Luffy's just acknowledging Hody's (teeth's) toughness (imho in term of [offensive] power, NOT durability, in this particular conversation), which Luffy says to be: "over 100mil" (note: no "berries" in the actual sentence). Basically it's like this:
Hody says his teeth are tough, Luffy acknowledges it, remarks them as having "over 100mil" (berries?) toughness. Meaning, Luffy's saying that Hody's at Supernova level like Aohige said.
2. If, however, someone wants to consider it as remarking to Luffy's own self, it sounds like Luffy's saying something with the nuance of, "I guess my toughness is over 100mil." Note the absence of counter, whether it's "berry" or "fold/time".
However, the context still supports what Aohige has said.
-
Regarding what Luffy says on Hody (100mil):
1. I agree with Aohige, Luffy's just acknowledging Hody's (teeth's) toughness (imho in term of [offensive] power, NOT durability, in this particular conversation), which Luffy says to be: "over 100mil" (note: no "berries" in the actual sentence). Basically it's like this:
Hody says his teeth are tough, Luffy acknowledges it, remarks them as having "over 100mil" (berries?) toughness. Meaning, Luffy's saying that Hody's at Supernova level like Aohige said.
2. If, however, someone wants to consider it as remarking to Luffy's own self, it sounds like Luffy's saying something with the nuance of, "I guess my toughness is over 100mil." Note the absence of counter, whether it's "berry" or "fold/time".
However, the context still supports what Aohige has said.
Luffy's saying Hodi's toughness is over 100 million… not Hodi's teeth, not himself. He's merely commenting that Hodi is comparable to strong enemies he fought before the time skip, in terms of overall "strength". This includes Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Sentoumaru, Magellan, and Blackbeard (before getting quake powers). Hodi's strength is also comparable to the Supernovas.
-
Hm ?
-
Somewhere inside Luffy's head, there's a voice that asks him, "Luffy, what do you say about Hody's power level?"
"It's over the 100mil-berry mark!!" (as in, comparable to some of the Supernovae)
"What!? 100mil berries!?"
"But it's not a problem. I'm at 400mil!" [trollface.jpg]
(And off somewhere in another dimension, there are fans who complain about using bounties as indicators of power levels.)
"orz
Edit: Hey Greg! You missed Aohige raging at Brennen.
-
Luffy's saying Hodi's toughness is over 100 million… not Hodi's teeth, not himself. He's merely commenting that Hodi is comparable to strong enemies he fought before the time skip, in terms of overall "strength". This includes Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Sentoumaru, Magellan, and Blackbeard (before getting quake powers). Hodi's strength is also comparable to the Supernovas.
Let's see the context, shall we…
Hody: Hey Strawhatter, my teeth are awesome, I'm tough!
Luffy: (blood's dripping because of Hody's awesomeness) Awrite, you are tough, you bite like a supernova sharkdude.So yes, he's commenting on how Hody's toughness is comparable to that of a supernova (that's what I said, basically, though involving Hody's teeth as part of his toughnesses). So we're actually agreeing, aside of the teeth as Hody's toughness.
-
Let's see the context, shall we…
Hody: Hey Strawhatter, my teeth are awesome, I'm tough!
Luffy: (blood's dripping because of Hody's awesomeness) Awrite, you are tough, you bite like a supernova sharkdude.So yes, he's commenting on how Hody's toughness is comparable to that of a supernova (that's what I said, basically, though involving Hody's teeth as part of his toughnesses). So we're actually agreeing, aside of the teeth as Hody's toughness.
Again, it's not his bite. It's Hodi in total. Mangastream translated it incorrectly. Luffy judged, after hitting Hodi with Red Hawk, that Hodi is about as difficult to beat as a pirate worth over 100 million.
All in all, it's a really minor issue, but one which Aohige raged about, and got me curious.
-
Again, it's not his bite. It's Hodi in total. Mangastream translated it incorrectly. Luffy judged, after hitting Hodi with Red Hawk, that Hodi is about as difficult to beat as a pirate worth over 100 million.
All in all, it's a really minor issue, but one which Aohige raged about, and got me curious.
I know, I read the Mangastream translation and Aohige's.
The raw says "タフさ" [tafusa], which is from English "tough" (tafu) (as in "you're a tough guy") + Japanese -sa (-ness).
There's no way of telling whether it's the toughness of Hody in total or "just" his bite from the translation only. That is why I (and Aohige and Brennen.exe) was talking about context. One thing we can see is that, Luffy's blood is dripping (with sfx) on the same panel as when he says the line. That's one thing I regard as to say it is about Hody's teeth (as part of his overall toughness, that is, at supernova level).
-
So, I actually agree with Aohige on this.
When Luffy punched Hody, he didn't think Hody would get up after it. So, after that he goes inside the bubble and turn to gear 3 right away to "destroy the ship", not to punch Hody. Because Hody, in Luffy's mind, is out cold. He didn't notice Hody was still conscious until he talked to him about his fangs. So, Luffy, surprised from Hody's endurance, said that his toughness is over 100mil SN.
But even after that, Luffy wasn't aiming for Hody, and you see that Luffy just went elephant and attacked the ship and Hody with it. The sequence in this order makes total sense in every language.Conclusion: Goda and Aohige are right, and you guys should go to 2ch.
Now the real question of this chapter is how did Amazon know about the 30m?!
What is Oden saying to WB?
Become my son Whitebeard.
-
3DS friend code: 2964-8756-2295Games: Pokemon Y & Alpha Sapphire
-
What is Oden saying to WB?
Become my son Whitebeard.
-
I wasn't talking about the translation, oh fast one!!
lol
No one disagreeing with the contextual sense either, just that there was ambiguity IN translated context which allowed both, trying to explain where confusion came from - not questioning what's actually, explicitly been said. And I apologise for my tone, I am quite sick since a few days and easily irritated, no offense intended.
3DS friend code: 2964-8756-2295Games: Pokemon Y & Alpha Sapphire
-
This post is deleted!
-
Actually, I was "disagreeing with the contextual sense", but explaining will make more people cry.
-
Right, but I said I'm not arguing the translation. You understand that the context [situation and dialog] implies he is talking about himself, right? Yes, yes, I understand the text IN JAPANESE apparently only makes sense if he is talking about Hodi, but the situation and dialog suggest the opposite. Isn't it more probable Oda simply fumbled on the grammar?
So let me clarify what I was saying in my other post. Here's a general play-by-play of what happened: Luffy attacks Hodi, Hodi gets up, Luffy sees Hodi get up, Luffy jumps to attack Hodi again saying "Gear 3rd", Hodi comments Luffy must be hurting, emphasis is given to Luffy's wound, Luffy responds by talking about toughness. You say in Japanese it makes no sense otherwise, but looking at the situation… it would make no sense for Luffy to comment on Hodi's durability. The fact alone that Oda wrote into the situation Hodi commenting on Luffy's durability should make it clear who the subject of Luffy's response is. I'm willing to accept the opposite, that Oda did a poor job of preparing three pages of art rather than making one tiny mistake on a single speech bubble, but I'd still find it pointless, given Luffy already emphasized the point twice at the beginning. No need to say it again. Hopefully you understand my point?
Inspecting your words more closely, I see the error of your argument. Luffy wasn't responding to Hodi's words, and he has never seemed to respond to Hodi's words. It's as if Luffy sees the shallowness of Hodi's words, so he focuses on the Hodi's physical endurance. With the examples you provided, Luffy is not repeating what he said in the beginning 3 times, but instead a progression of opinion. Luffy's opinion: He's tough! –> Wow, he's really tough! --> He's about as tough as a 100 mil pirate. Thus, it seems that Luffy regards Hodi as a worthy opponent (as opposed to a waste of time), but not necessarily a very challenging one.
-
C'mon people. There are far more important things to argue about. Let's forget about this.
On Topic: I didn't like Chopper's scene. I'm not talking about he managing to control the monster form. That was predictable. I'm talking about the way it was done. This is a big thing for Chopper and only two panels are not enough to satisfy me. It felt rushed and was kinda strange.
-
For some reason I would have rather have the "revelation" that he was conscious for the next chapter. It would have made it a little better for me.
Hang in there, Kierkegaard.
